After the Ashes: A Beautiful Altadena Podcast

Episode 20: TIME Magazine, In Government We (Mis)Trust, and the Call for Unity

• Shawna Dawson Beer

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We kick of this episode with a media roundup and the biggest headline yet: Altadena on the cover of TIME Magazine. The digital story is live now, and the print issue hits stands on December 8. (Yes, both Steve and Shawna are quoted).  Our town’s story, its failures and its resilience, is now a national story. Altadena was also the feature of a Spectrum News Thanksgiving Special, where Tyler of Betsy shared an unflinching, deeply personal account of losing his marriage, home, and business and the depression that followed, and how his team pulled him back from the edge. Shawna highlighted how the Beautiful Altadena group has become one big support group for more than 10,000 Altadenans.  Next, we turn to the LA Times’ Measure G reporting from Rebecca Ellis, covering something many in Altadena have felt for some time: The majority of Angelenos surveyed have lost faith in County government and believe their communities would be better off on their own. We also talk about our fire “sister city,” the Palisades, as they approach the one-year anniversary of their fire. They’re heading into the milestone with grief, anger, and action — including a protest they're calling They Let Us Burn. Their struggle mirrors ours, and their anniversary is another reminder of how communities left behind must keep up the fight and lead themselves. We return to the question of philanthropy and the ongoing role the nonprofit world, a well-funded “shadow government” that answers to donors instead of residents, continues to play in our recovery.

Threaded through all of this is a single, unavoidable truth — unity is no longer optional. Altadena and the Palisades. Fire communities across the county. And right here at home, where groups, orgs, and leaders still working in silos must come together before it’s too late.

This week’s small business spotlight shines on the Altadena Healing Village (@altadenahealingvillage), whose Healing Sundays provide massage, acupuncture, reiki, sound baths, and real community care, all by volunteers at no cost.

And as we wrap the week, the Altadena Chamber’s Citizen and Business of the Year nominations deadline has just passed. Hot take. Give it to the whole town. Everyone still here, still doing the work, still fighting for their neighbors and their future, they’ve all earned the recognition.

SPEAKER_03:

Welcome back to After the Ashes, the Beautiful Aldena podcast, breaking down legislation and recovery after our urban fire. Um, I'm Shauna, co-host, and this is episode 20. Do you want to give us the title, Steve?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Time magazine in government.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, Steve. You had one job, Steve. Episode 20 is Time Magazine. In government we mistrust and a call for unity.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, thank you. Sorry. Sorry, everybody. My wife will tell you I'm the worst when I have to read off of a paper.

SPEAKER_03:

No teleprompters for you, Steve?

SPEAKER_01:

No. No, I I I wing it.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, as you know, so do I.

SPEAKER_01:

We indeed.

SPEAKER_03:

No one wouldn't should know that we often put these podcast episodes together literally minutes before we do them because for a lot of reasons, that's how fast everything is moving. And to keep it as contemporary as possible, we have to do that. But also it's like we it's how we work.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you believe we're at episode 20 already?

SPEAKER_03:

I can't believe we're at episode 20. Are we having fun yet?

SPEAKER_01:

Indeed.

SPEAKER_03:

And we've been on our own with uh with no no assistance for what 17 of them?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Um, so here we are. We're gonna kick off this episode um with another media roundup because there's been a lot of press the last couple weeks um since our Thanksgiving holiday break.

SPEAKER_01:

And there'll be a lot more coming.

SPEAKER_03:

And there's a lot more coming. So there will be many more of these as so many are working on their one-year stories. Um, but you know, I think the the big one, the biggest one is um Time magazine, right? So Steve and I kind of knew that Team Time magazine story was coming because we were both interviewed and we are both um quoted in the story.

SPEAKER_01:

But um I think um a piece, Justin.

SPEAKER_03:

Justin. So the the writer of that piece, uh Justin Warland, is one of ours. Justin is um was born and raised in Altadena, his family home was lost.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep.

SPEAKER_03:

And um, so this, you know, while he went into it uh with as little bias as possible, and I say as little as possible because we're all human, we're all biased to some degree, but he really went into this with an honest and open heart, and and that is the story. The story is honest, you know, and I know it it pissed off some powers that be who were not to he viewed it as not very flattering, but it was an honest telling of how it has gone so far and where we're at. And I think, you know, the for all of us, you know, who want to talk about that story, um they this story ended up, you know, it took was so long in the making because it's not only really involved and incredibly well researched. And I know Justin spoke to virtually everyone he could, dozens of people over the course of months. Um, the story made the cover. So Al Dadena and a really incredibly powerful, impactful aerial photo of you know, of my tract of 4602, where everything is effectively gone, um, is the cover. And so Al Dadena is the cover story. And that one, uh, if anyone wants to read it, it is available right now on stands. I'm sorry, it's available right now online and it will be on stands on December 8th. The cover, uh, the date on the cover is December 8th.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, cool. Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

You didn't know that, did you?

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't. Well, you know.

SPEAKER_03:

So, yes, and in fact, I want to read, I'm gonna take a second and open this up because I want to read the um the actual headline on the physical print cover. Uh, the story's titled The Aftermath. This year, the LA Wildfires came from my hometown. What happened next is a warning for us all. And it is um, it's really about the recovery and what has worked and how much very unfortunately has not worked.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think what Justin did, you know, the hard part for anybody writing this story is to take the complexity of these threads, as they like to say, and put it into something that's digestible. You know, I struggle. I mean, how many 300 and something, almost 400 substacks later. I was still trying to find the thread.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, like it's in real time. And that's the hardest part about this, is that you know, they're trying to tell a story at a glimpse in time. And so I think part of writing that I've learned is you want to tell the story and you kind of want to see where you're at. But it's hard if you don't have enough time lapse to be able to see the trend.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

But then because you don't want to be wrong, but at the same time, you also don't want to wait too long because you know that a story like what Justin has done or what we've been trying to do with the Substack is critical for our ability to navigate the future. Right.

SPEAKER_03:

We're trying to synthesize all of this information and everything happening in real time, right?

SPEAKER_01:

And it's so complex to, you know, the reader, to us as humans, I mean, to the people that live it every day, to try to take these complex threads and make them digestible and put them into 3,000 to 5,000 words. I mean, and for those that are writing in like the LA Times or Politico or the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times or the Washington Post, you know, they have to take it down into like 1,200 words. And we all know how long it takes me to write a story. No, it's it's true.

SPEAKER_03:

And that was another interesting story, is um Liam Dillon's on 549.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You want to cover that for all of us? That was in Politico. And for anyone who doesn't know Liam, Liam was um a housing writer at the LA Times who did some really great investigative journalism there, and he is now um at Politico and writing about housing there and has uh been heavily covering Altadena.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, I mean uh anybody who's reading Politico knows Liam Dillon is basically writing a store, he's writing about as much as I am. I mean, there's another story today he had. He had one yesterday about, or yesterday, sorry, about the first house in uh the Palisades being completed. And but his real story, he's been writing little ones along the way, but the big one that he was that I think he's been writing was this one about 549. And that's the Ben Allen bill in the countywide rebuilding authority.

SPEAKER_03:

And you know, the idea I think we need to go back real quick and just give the listener some context that that that bill was shot down. That bill was shot down the time that 782 and 747.

SPEAKER_01:

Remember, this was Spencer Pratt. And for those of you that know about Spencer Pratt and his noise, which really didn't affect the bill. Uh Shauna and Serena, who went up there for Altadina, um, you you guys were the basically the chair of that committee said that they were gonna choose between 782 and 549. The 549 was the countywide authority, whereas 782 is one a city and the county could do. And both the city and the county got behind 782, and the city was against 549. And so the chair of the committee said to shelve that bill pending the outcome of whatever was gonna happen with 782. Right. Essentially, right? Yeah, and so Liam wrote about that back in the summer at the in the Times, and I think you know, he had a piece the the cover picture of that story is uh assemblyman Herobedian on it. And you know, basically Herobedian is telling everybody, you know, there there is there are too many cooks in the kitchen, but there's no recipe essentially. Like right. We need to come up with a solution, we need a plan. Anyone heard this before? Um, or if there is a plan, we need to articulate the plan.

SPEAKER_03:

Um I'm just glad it's not me saying it for once.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, no, the media is confirming what we're saying.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01:

And you know, Liam did a great job telling the story. Um his thrust was does the county still need a rebuilding authority to comply with, you know, the uh the the findings of the Blue Ribbon Commission and you know the uh Lindsay Horvath's, you know, push on that side. I'm not so sure that's going to happen. I mean, we don't know, but I never count out Lindsay Horvath when it comes to anything that she does. But I would also say that I think that the trains left the station in terms of the rebuilding authorities because our, you know, they would use tax increment financing as well. And we all know that tax increment financing is being gobbled up in our area with the climate resilience district. And I know that the city is also looking at something from my conversations with the folks in the Palisades, something similar. I will say this though, I found it interesting that 549 started to resurface about the same time the NDAA included the CDBG reauthorization. Yeah, that is timing is interesting. Maybe there's something there about you know trying to bond the future uh money coming from the federal government if and when that ever happens. And maybe that's probably driving a lot of this. I don't know. I I I really this one I don't know. This was just it it kind of struck me sideways that this was being brought back, but potentially there's another plan on the horizon that we're not aware of.

SPEAKER_03:

It's very possible.

SPEAKER_01:

So maybe we'll see further. But I did say uh it was interesting at the end of Liam's piece, he left open the idea of financing. I'm gonna pull up the piece right now because I think it's important to reference the exact quote. I'm gonna quote the media. And he said, or sorry, he was talking about the idea about rebuilding down in the Palisades, and the quote was this you can't rebuild this community without funding. It has has to come from somewhere. AB 797, perhaps, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Um well we've heard before that Evan that 797 may be re resurrected, and we can only hope because we need all of the we need all of the finance structures we can get, we need all the money we can get.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and so I would say to Liam, you know, when you're ready to do a follow-up, obviously we have a solution to discuss about the financing. So you've left it open. So now maybe you've defined the problem. Now let's start to define the solution.

SPEAKER_03:

What is the solution? We don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, no, I mean we know where we can start to start to pull the capital stack.

SPEAKER_03:

So I think um there's a couple of other media pieces I want to talk about, but let's jump into this one because I think it's it's fits in here. Is this the story from Rebecca Ellis in the LA Times last week?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um that was largely on Measure G.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it was about the lack of trust. That's where the mistrust was. Yes, it was the lack of it started.

SPEAKER_03:

It started out with Measure G, but they don't.

SPEAKER_01:

It started out with the it was the idea that we had there was a poll that was done.

SPEAKER_03:

Exactly. We also have a survey in here um that you know revealed something I don't think will be a secret to anyone who listens to MR podcast. Correct. It's it's my county dissatisfaction. So the the takeaway from the poll from the survey was that four out of five Angelinos who were surveyed um who live in unincorporated areas had lost faith in county government and believed that resources and their money was being mismanaged and their communities would be better off on their own.

SPEAKER_01:

In other words, 66% felt we were heading in the wrong direction.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Seven out of ten agreed the county government needed major reform. And yeah, the 80% felt that the leaders are not connected to the voters, rather, but to big money interests. Sound familiar? So that was the assessment of the county. Now, again, this was in the context of then the story winds its way around to Measure G, that that's the solution to solve this disconnect. That miraculously we're gonna have nine supervisors in expand county and have a CEO. But the problem they have right now is I uh that they are going to potentially there was some there's some legal issues in whether Measure G will actually still be implemented or whether there are if it's gonna require another um proposition and vote from the community. And in there they talked about the I think the quote that I liked was, and I wrote about this in my Substack was there are people out there who are trying to relitigate Measure G. And I'm talking at a level of the political elite, said Fernando Guerra, who's a professor at Loyal La Marymount, who's supporting overhaul. What these numbers are suggesting, and what I'm suggesting, is if we put up to an election again, it would pass again. Now that he's drawing a distinction. The measures never asked the question about whether measure G was the answer. But I think what he's alluding to is that there was a level of politically elite opposition to this that might be interesting to start to pull the string on. I and again, I think that this is whether this overhaul goes through or not, I think that the measures echo what we're feeling here on the ground. And that was what I really saw about the Rebecca Ellis piece. And you've talked to her, I mean you've had contact with her.

SPEAKER_03:

Um and and yeah, I it's anyhow. I think um it just continues to underscore this, you know. I I hate to sound like this, but it is a failure of government. And, you know, and the failure has caused um significant distrust, and it's really hard, you know, and that continues to be fueled by lack of accountability and um change, lack of accountability fueling significant change. And without that, I don't know how anyone expects to move forward or why people are surprised that so many are having a hard time feeling confident about moving forward.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and I think that this goes back to the broader issues is you know, is this the moment where change can happen? Like this is where a change agent can come in and potentially shift the conversation. And that's what we keep talking about.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

And whether it's it it and what we're also saying is it's not isolated to Altadina. This is that's what I keep telling everybody, is this is a much bigger picture.

SPEAKER_03:

It is. Well, we're gonna get to that in a second. We're gonna also mention before we move on from our media roundup that um there was another special focused on Altadena that aired last week for Thanksgiving, and that was Spectrum News, who did um a 30-minute Thanksgiving special um that featured a number of people. We had um um your friend from St. Mark's, who's also in the Time Story. Jen Tolbert. Jen Tolbert is fantastic. Um Dr. Eshelle Williams, who um is one of the uh coalition members um Altina for Accountability, who I've worked with and have stood next to it at press conferences and protests. Um, I was really pleased to see that she was included. She was there. Um, we also had a couple from the Palisades. Um Tyler Wells, who owns uh Betsy and who also lost quite a bit to the foul fire, was there. And also uh myself, you know, as just an organizer and I was kind of talking about how, you know, we're all kind of getting each other through the community through this.

SPEAKER_01:

She has the face for TV. I have it for Substack or for radio.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know. So that the some of the random uh angles that I I do you know how people like hate listening to themselves or seeing themselves on TV and seeing themselves I've never been on TV so I can't. Okay, I I do not particularly enjoy it, and then it's like, oh gosh, like why would you shoot me at that angle? I didn't even know that angle existed. It's like Zoolander, and then I'm like now, and I'm like, and now I understand why everyone is getting Botox, uh, which I have been a little like eh, but now I'm like, bring, give me the Botox, give it, give me Steve's shaking his head, like, no, don't do it. Um, but anyhow, I loved that. So that special was really beautifully shot. They had like great drone footage. We that was um we shot that at Mariposa Junction. Um, have fun watching and seeing um if you can catch our breath. It was so flipping cold out there, and we were trying to get a heat lamp and couldn't because of the overhead lighting rig. And oh my gosh, it was so cold. You can't see that I have a blanket on underneath the things as we all did for for for television. But you know, Tyler got really personal on that one and talked about how um, you know, it was not just like for him, he lost his the the business. Obviously, the business didn't burn down, but the business was closed down. So, I mean, and fire is deeply fire contaminated until they cleaned up. So, you know, they um he had the loss of the business in that way, the loss of his home, because he had moved from his house, um, moved out to an apartment. Um, and that apartment burned down and had also, you know, this came on the heels of the loss of his marriage as well. So, you know, it's been a lot and the depression that he kind of went through and um how the town and his team and doubling down on Altadina has really um kind of brought him back to life and like kind of saved him. So it was um it was a really beautiful story. Story of hope. It was, it was it was really beautifully done. Um, I I think one of the lead quotes, you know, from me that was used for the promo was that we we may be down, but we are absolutely not out. Um and it is very it is a very hopeful piece, and so I encourage anyone to go find that it's on YouTube. So you were saying, Steve, that um, you know, these issues, right, that we're talking about, all the, and of course, there was another couple, as Aetha said, we also had a couple from the Palisades, and it was really nice to meet this couple from the Palisades while we filmed that special and hear what they're going through and how similar the issues are and how similar the sentiment is. I don't think people in Alfadena realize because we are, you know, we're so deeply in what we're so deeply into that the people I've said this a few times over the course of the last few months, that the people in the Palisades, they're angrier than we are. And now that all this news has come out and all this data has come out showing that well, their failure was even it wasn't even a corporation, it was purely county fire. Yeah. Well, and and more than county fire. I mean, for them, you know, well, for them, they I mean, listen, so we were, I was just looking at um, you know, what as we've been talking so much about the one-year anniversary coming. Um, you know, the way that they are handling this in the Palisades is they're actually staging um a demonstration. It's a protest, it's a rally on January 7th. Um, and you know, uh it's the Palisades Fire Residence Coalition, um, is what they're calling themselves. But there's a number of people involved in this. Um and you know, for them, you know, the the people they call out, it says very specifically the bull, it's a big bold um movie style poster that says they let us burn. And then there is a whole list of names as if it were like a cast of of you know of characters here, and it's Newsom, Bass, LADWP, fire officials, California State Parks, California Natural Resources Agencies, agencies, state and local agencies, the city of Los Angeles, the state of California, let us burn. Um, you know, um, and I'm gonna I'm just gonna read a little bit of this from their from their press piece because I think it's important to have some perspective of how this other sister fire community um has been impacted and what this feels like for them. They just said, and these were their points here, and and honestly, it will sound like Al Tadina. This it's I'm reading this as like, oh, it's us. They let us burn through gross negligence, mismanagement, poor preparedness, lack of infrastructure and protocol. Oh, it sounds like our independent report. They let us burn with gaslighting, lack of transparency, accountability, and vision. Does that sound familiar, Steve? Have we been saying this for 20 episodes? They let us burn, but we rise like a phoenix with or without their leadership. And um, that really struck me, you know, as this is another community facing so many of the issues that we are. You know, it's easy to look at them and go, like, you know, hey, this is the the wealthy version of us, right? And yes, there is a lot of wealth there, but there's but hold on, hold on. I just I really want to speak to this. There are so many in their community who are having the same problems that we are, in that there is an affordability issue, there is a lack of wealth issue, there is a rather a a um uh generational. There is, but also I'm trying to I'm if you could see me over here hand gesturing as I'm trying to. No, it's not six seven to come up with the with the uh with what I want to say, but the um inequity really of like where the wealth is and who has it and who can't has doesn't and who can access it and who cannot, and the fact that so many people in the Palisades, just like here in Altadena, want to rebuild but can't. They they don't know how they're going to rebuild. And people are being forced out of their community because of this.

SPEAKER_01:

And this is and what I was gonna say is that I had a conversation with someone from the Palisades over the weekend, and you know, this is exactly what they said. And I said, Well, it's Altadena. And they go, Yeah, you the presumption is Altadena is on its own here and that the Palisades is this very wealthy enclave. And yes, there is tremendous wealth there, but there's also a lot of families that have been there for in 1500 square foot houses for 50 plus years, and they've lost everything too, and just like us here in Altadena.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

So it we are siblings.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, we are. Like I said, as I as I read through their press release, um it it sounds just like us.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and that's one of the things that you know when I walked away from the conversation with this person who's much more involved than I had thought, you know, I I said to myself, if only we can unite. Because we are fighting the same fights.

SPEAKER_03:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

And, you know, we have resources that they don't, and they have resources that we don't. Like, how much more effective could we be if we were together than if we correct are apart?

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

And I mean the same systemic failures are evident in both. So I mean, yeah, there's gonna be differences like the lawsuits, you know, whose responsibility, etc. You know, um, but I think ultimately the solution to they're gonna be in a mass tort too, though, just like us. They're not gonna have a wildfire fund to uh no, it's gonna be their tax, it's gonna be this the city's gonna be using all the money from their tax increment financing to pay off the funds that they're gonna have to use to rebuild the city.

SPEAKER_03:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

Ironically enough.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, but anyway, the the the long and short of it that I took away from it was we're still gonna have to rebuild. And the same people that let them down have let us down in different ways, but we need to find a way forward. And if we could do it together, it would be the same as everybody is talking about having you know consolidated procurement to rebuild homes to lower the price and maximize the capability or maximization of you know the efficiencies. How great would it be if we actually work together and we can probably maximize the effects and the exactly.

SPEAKER_03:

And this is what I've been saying here, you know, and again, for anyone who's been listening for all these episodes, you've heard me say this multiple times is that, you know, unfortunately, so much of the work that is being done here in Altadena is happening in silos, right? Within individual small group small groups for various reasons. Um uh, but you know, some of it is groups, some of it's organization, some of its individual leaders. But, you know, ultimately, I think everyone feels like they have their issues and their thing, and they're very laser focused on, you know, their issue and their things, and in some cases, how they're gonna fund those things and how they're gonna continue to fund the work that they're doing, um, which you know is its own animal that we'll we'll talk about as we talk about philanthropy and where that funding comes from and how it is gonna be a segue. Um, because all of these things go together. But, you know, for all of these reasons, all of this work is happening very siloed and people are not working together. And there's even work happening, you know, separate of one another. There's even, I think the perfect example is what's happening with the park, with uh Charles G uh with the park, right? In Altadena, and the fact that people were so upset um in that community, a faction of people, including some folks on our town council, who were very vocal and very upset that this was happening, this park redevelopment was happening with County in conjunction with Disney, um, without conversation with the community. Since, you know, for those who've been in the community a long time, and I recognize that not everyone has been, um they had been in talks for years about how they were going to fund and how they were going to redevelop that park because it is such an important park to the black community. Um, and so, you know, what should have been really well received, unfortunately, was not for everybody. Um, and you know, it's it's an important exercise again in the fact that we have to, we have to actually be talking to each other and listening. And that is unfortunately not happening. You know, it's like I I used to say this with with my clients and with my teams all the time that it's all about everything is about expectations, right? Someone would be like, oh my God, this didn't happen, or like this story didn't hit, or this thing didn't come together, or we missed this deadline, and like, oh my gosh, this guy is falling. And you know, my answer always was in business, in life, in all of this, it is about expectations and creating real expectations, and that comes through open communication. It's that simple. Something's not gonna happen, great. Go tell the client, go tell the partner, go tell them now. This is not going to happen, and this is why. Because and and this is what the expected outcome is instead, and this is how we hope to get there, and we'll keep you abreast.

SPEAKER_01:

Managing expectations.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you. That is literally all it takes. Like if you leave people in silence, they're going to fill in the blanks on their own, and it's never good, right? No, it's an effective tool in certain circumstances, and it it would be in this one in how to manage a community and how to manage a community that is in in trauma and grief and desperately wants to move forward somehow or another, but does not trust in any of it or have faith in any of its institutions, and that none of this is helping. Well, but if you see it, even when even when there is a little bit of good help happening, but it's not being talked about with everyone.

SPEAKER_01:

Because the silo is the key. It's keeping everybody siloed and keeping everybody separate, keeping everybody working across purposes.

SPEAKER_03:

Sound like the whole country right now. But the idea keep us fighting with each other instead of actually looking at what's wrong.

SPEAKER_01:

But but what you really want to do, and this is is throw out start getting people united around an ideal, uh, around a vision, around something. And let and that was what back in March I saw this, and that's why I did the the plan that I wrote through the nonprofit. I said, we need to have something. I I don't care if you're attacking me because you know what you're talking about is you're talking about how we're moving forward. Yep. And attack the plan, attack me, attack whatever it is, but don't have it where we don't have anything. Start talking about what these things are, talk about the ideas, let it be the prompt. Don't be afraid. I feel like right now we're we're dealing with a lot of fear, fear in the community, but fear at the higher levels of the scale and scope of this. And you can't control something like this the way you can control everything else.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

And you know, that's why if we were working with the Palisades, if we were elevating this conversation to these national trends and these national conversations that are happening, I think it would be tremendous where we can go with this.

SPEAKER_03:

I agree with you. It would be. And it's unfortunate that those conversations aren't happening. And I know I've had these this same conversation with a number again of our community leaders and orgs in the past, and again, more recently, that like this is it as we head into the one year. Like we it is time for everyone to find ways to come together, one way or another. Because as I've been saying since day one, you know, we can all in anyone you think you have some beef with or you have an issue with or you don't agree with, great, get over it. We can get back to that in about a decade when we have a town to to have the luxury of getting into petty bullshit. We don't have the luxury of that right now. We this one takes the entire village, everyone who is left behind, everybody who is still here, everyone who's fighting to come back, those you know, who are not going to be permanently displaced from Altadina. You know, we have a town to fight for. We have the soul of a town to fight for, we have what's left of a town to fight for. Um, and that is a a very worthwhile cause. And I think we all agree on that. And it's how do we come together to actually be effective?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think we got to start telling the story.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, we gotta start telling the story, but we gotta start talking to each other.

SPEAKER_01:

We gotta have a vision. And in the way you start talking is you throw something out there and let people attack, let people engage, let you know, throw, tell, tell people where you're wrong and tell people where you're right. Exactly. But for those that sit there and just say no and don't do anything about it, you're as bad as the people that are trying to push things on you. Yeah, a decision to do nothing is still a decision, as we like to say in books.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it is. So that does, you know, it does kind of get us into this, you know, question of philanthropy, right? And this has come up a few times in different contexts. I had Steve's favorite subject to talk about and not talk about.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's so hard.

SPEAKER_03:

It's hard. It it is hard. It's a it is a tough one. But I mean, you wrote a great substack back on the 23rd on November 23rd. Did I? You did on philanthropy.

SPEAKER_01:

No, I don't know if I did on that one. Is this the one we were talking about this morning? Yeah. No, no, that one. Not a substack. Oh, it wasn't substack. No, no, no, no. That was just the muse between me and on an email. Oh. No, I did not write that one.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm sorry, Steve. I was going to uh publish your personal emails. But no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01:

I wrote the the the big one was the three that we wrote back, Philanthropy What Yeah, exactly, which we've talked about.

SPEAKER_03:

We've talked about that. But I think that the the topics that we were touching on this morning.

SPEAKER_01:

No, it so yeah, there's there's another side to philanthropy, is what you're really asking.

SPEAKER_03:

It it is. Well, I this is what I've been getting at is that, you know, in the absence or failure of government, right, we've created effectively a secondary or a shadow government. We've always had it. We have always had it. If you think about it. But we're really seeing it play out here in Altadena.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think what's happened is, you know, in and I talk about this in philanthropy one, is the idea that philanthropy originally started as a as a support, a sidecar, if you will, to government. Or no, sorry. Philanthropy was the main driver of solutions. Think about like hospitals. Why are they all charities? Because they were philanthropic at the beginning. They were created to help people. You know, the Catholic Church. And, you know, uh, especially during like when immigration was flexing here in this country in the early early part of the century, there were a lot of, you know, philanthropic groups in the big cities that would go in and help, you know, immigration immigrants integrate into American society. Not all of it was good, but you know, the idea was that it was not incumbent on the government, but it was these groups that filled that void. And, you know, with the growth of the welfare state in the 1960s and the Great Society, it started more with Roosevelt in the 40s, but once we got to the Great Society, government stepped more into the role that was typically done by charities. And so we have seen this transformation simultaneously with the activist role of a lot of these philanthropic organizations. You know, you start thinking about some of these large organizations and what they're able to do as a uh through their donor supports, and you realize there's, I don't want to say a shadow government, but it's it's almost like a parallel universe that exists. Maybe it is a shadow government where you know nonprofits have a much more integral role in our society than just we think of them as just charities. And you know, we think of them as just, you know, doing you know, food banks and you know, very basic tactical on-the-ground stuff, which a lot do, but there's a lot more to it than people realize. And we use the word nonprofit, and when I learned about the philanthropic world, nonprofit doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't generate profits, it just means they don't pay tax. It's a tax elective. That's all it is. And there has to be a charitable intent, and there are certain rules governing that, and there are certain accountability components to it. So they can live in a world where there has to be it very similar to government, where there has to be public disclosure, but to what extent? If that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03:

It does make sense. But you know, I think again, it comes back to it's hard.

SPEAKER_01:

It's hard to wrap your head around. It took me a very long time to do that. No, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_03:

And you can't you can't wrap your head around it. But again, it like why we live in this value, why we must have this, why we have allowed our nonprofits to effectively be another arm of government because our government doesn't work effectively. Well, and I think we're seeing that play out right here in Altadena in particular.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't, I don't know about that. I think I think the nonprofits have no problem sitting in that role because I think in some respects, nonprofits can do things government can't, or they can do things in a way that allows government to function differently and it allows for protection. And I know that that's very nebulous in what I'm saying, but I mean I've seen it. It's the the nonprofit world has moved beyond, as the government has spread itself out. The nonprofits have been able to move more into an activist space. And so, as much as they continue to support certain charities, the grants from the from the government, state, local, and federal, have gone to fill a lot of the void that the philanthropic foundations were able to do. And then they have moved more into, you know, more grassroots type stuff, which has become almost like a like a shadow part of the government and reinforcing certain people in certain positions. It's it's not everybody, but there are definitely components to this that are coming out. I mean, there was a little bit of this peeling back the kimono, so to speak, when the Trump administration was going after USAID. And a lot of those organizations were getting grants through the federal government that were supplementing that were more activists than people expected. And, you know, then you have these larger philanthropic organizations supporting those initiatives as well. It's this, it's like a shadow government that's set up that when we have money that comes from the government to a function, especially with Congress or even the state or even local, those appropriations are tied back to accountability for the elected. So the electeds can hold hearings, you know, audit it, have more, you know, they're public. But philanthropy can operate not necessarily with the same restraints that a government does. And so it can be a tool for good and it can be a tool for bad. How's that?

SPEAKER_03:

I I would accept that. And I think, you know, but again, I think the that it does not come without, you know, great responsibility in question. And case in point, Annenberg, the fire aid money, questions still swirling, investigative reporters still working on these stories of, you know, where where did this money go? Well, I think you start with the. It's all just, you know, I I've made this comp this statement before. It's like it's trickle-down economics. It's going from nonprofit entity to nonprofit entity to nonprofit entity. And, you know, at some point some of it gets into the community.

SPEAKER_01:

But it's so that's the sc I mean, it it I I don't say scandal because scandal is the wrong word, but that's the that's the obvious question that people want to know. But to me, the question I've been asking a lot of people in this space has been more how much money outside of the fire aid money has been actually allocated to the fire support, you know. Exactly. I I don't think there's been a true accounting of this yet. I know there are people looking at it, but what is the true number out? We had a hundred million dollars cascading through the philanthropic organizations down into community groups, and these community groups serve their functions. And I think the utility of that is going to be very interesting in the subsequent rounds of when the funding has dried up, and which util which of these groups are going to get more money and from which source? Are they gonna get it from the corpus or the the the money that is typically allocated by these large foundations? I mean, to put in context, I think the number is like$50 billion worth of assets are controlled by the largest foundations here in Los Angeles. Yeah, it's incredible. That's an incredible amount of money. Let's assume they're giving away 5% a year. That's$2.5 billion a year. That's cascading through our economy. To give you context, the CDBG, the community development block grant money that goes to revitalized communities in and around Los Angeles County is about 50 million. We're talking two and a half billion. So, like, understand the scale and scope of what we're talking about here. It's this isn't chump change. And that's that you know, that doesn't even include additional investments and things like that that go along with this. So um I I I I'm very curious how much of that two and a half billion was actually allocated to fire aid outside of that additional.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, which is a good question. Someone should dig into that.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I I mean that's that's a question I've asked.

SPEAKER_03:

I know. Someone should work on getting an answer and and an answer too for how, you know, where all this money is really gone.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it's, you know, again, I yes, I think that that's community should it it's have an answer. That's the that's the you know, the headline, but I think it's the deeper questions that are down there about how that functions and why these organizations are getting the money, what their purpose was. And if they don't get the follow-on money, that's the story too is why did they not get the follow-on money? Were they established for a reason outside of something? Were they ineffective anymore? Like what's changed? And so that to me, uh at my intellectual level, want to see those questions asked because I think that that gives you a better insight into what's really happening in this ecosystem that exists in sort of this never wor nether world that is very opaque.

SPEAKER_03:

It is opaque, which is why there's so many questions. More questions than answers.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, isn't it interesting that we can open up some of these questions through what's happening here? Yeah, it is, it's it is and again, remember for those of you that don't think that the philanthropic community has a lot of you know support or a lot of influence in this particular oh yes, it does. They're they are the biggest champions of the federal money and the unite unification of organizations around ensuring that federal money comes. I could tell you this though, both for me, I've never taken any money out of the philanthropic as a result of the fires, have you?

SPEAKER_03:

Nope, nor have I. Okay. So I mean, I mean, we we were offered early. I don't know for you, I know I was offered early on.

SPEAKER_01:

Nobody's ever offered me anything.

SPEAKER_03:

And but that money very clearly came with strings. And um strings I was not interested in being attached to. But, you know, I rather just do this on my own, on our own, right? I think as most know, or if you don't know, like, you know, as Steve just said, we've taken no money from any entities. We're entirely self-funded. My trip to Sacramento was self-funded. I'm not working on any agenda or for any agenda, other than frankly, the betterment of our town and ensuring to the degree that we can that this not happen to another town. You know, this took out our community, and the next time it's someone else's community.

SPEAKER_01:

But look, there are organizations that have come before us that had institutional knowledge, and you know, different groups have known, you know, I know reached out to you and reached out to various members of our communities. And there are, you know, more well-known organizations as well. Um our hope is that we were gonna have the ability to help or you know, organizations have this template or communities have this template. That is why I did the Substack, frankly. Right. A to get the message out there, but B, have a historical record. If someone's willing to wade through 400 different posts of my writing, they might actually have a way to go through it and say how, see how we went through this and have a historical record.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, that's what we talked about in the last episode. We have an incredible opportunity here, right? An incredible opportunity to develop a path, develop a system, a way, because again, it's this is our town right now, it's gonna be another town. And you know, just opportunity to create a path for how to recover and how you get through this. And unfortunately, that hasn't happened yet, but we can only hope that um everyone starts talking to each other and working together and tapping into all those incredible resources and minds and that we actually get somewhere effectively. I mean, um we're stronger together than we are probably. Yes, we are always. Um it's funny. Um, the Alton Chamber of Commerce does an annual um citizen of the year and business of the year. Okay. And so the voting was just open for uh for nominations again, or it wasn't voting, it was the call for nominations. And then the chamber of commerce determines based on those nominations who who re is the recipient of those awards for the year. But you know, it this came up in our group as it was like, oh, you need to nominate, you need to nominate. And of course, you know, a lot of names came up, and you know, uh anyhow, it doesn't matter whose names came up, but many came up. But you know, to my point, um, as I said, there and I'll stay here. Um, if it were me, I would frankly give that award this year, the citizen of the year, and even the business of the year. Uh we could maybe to the town. It's everybody, everyone who has stayed behind, who has, you know, pulled up their sleeve, rolled up their sleeves and gotten dug in and gotten dirty. So many people have started new orgs um or have stepped into leadership roles or have stepped up uh from their leadership roles to really continue to kind of champ be champions of the town. Um, there's too many to count. There are too many to count, too many to try and just give one person an award. I I genuinely think um this year goes to the entire town that's been incredibly resilient to everyone who's left and carries on, you know, to fight the fight. And um now's the time to kind of gird your loins because we're it's it ain't over yet.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, that's funny you use that term because there are people in Washington that have told me that term. Really? Yeah, and I'll be in the middle.

SPEAKER_03:

He caught me with another pretzel in my mouth. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01:

I I yeah, it's um about some of this stuff. And you know, when things start to get a little run rocky, they like to say, gird your loins, here it comes, Steve. Um, that's funny when you use that term.

SPEAKER_03:

It's true, it's true.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, if they're listening, they're gonna get a kick out of that one, I'll tell you right now.

SPEAKER_03:

And it is true. Like we're like, I know people, you know, you were saying earlier, like even from just me personally, like people are tired and you know, we're a little worn, but man, I can't say it enough. We're down, but we're not out. This is the bonk in the marathon, right? It is, it is. This is that tough for anyone who's ever run a marathon. I have, though all proof of that is now gone with my house, my brace muddles. But um, you know, it is time. It's time to do what we have to do to take care of ourselves and each other to continue to fight this battle. Well, as you know, or fight the war, because you know, we we've been through many battles and there are many ahead, and we've won some, we've lost some, but it's not over yet, to say the least. But um, on that note, I'm gonna wrap us up with um a little a small biz community shout-out. And um, this one's not a brick and mortar. I wanted to give, you know, um some recognition to a group that's been operating for months, you know, speaking of all these amazing people who've stepped up and amazing community people. Um, there is an organization that if if you're if the listeners are not familiar called Altadina Healing Village, and you can find them on Instagram at Altadena Healing Village, um, who have been hosting monthly healing Sundays that bring uh massage, acupuncture, Reiki, sound baths, all sorts of you know, really just deep care and community to people in the neighborhood, to fire survivors, but also not just you know, fire survivors, all of us organizers, everyone who's been doing this work, digging in and doing this work, continuing to do this work, and they do this all out of their own pocket. Speaking of people not taking money, this is an entirely volunteer effort effort. So all of the massage therapists, acupuncturists, and other practitioners are all doing this without compensation. Um, you just have to sign up. And and it does the the slots do fill up quickly now that it's a little bit better known. But um it is worth following them and following when they share their dates and uh registration periods and taking advantage of that. When I was at the uh fall uh festival for Rhythms of the Village a couple weeks ends ago, I got to um take admin advantage. I finally just went over to say hi to the organizers and thank them. And just as I had, someone had canceled, not did a no-show or canceled for like the last massage slot of the day in a little tent. And um, I had like the best um uh cranial massage. It was anyhow, it was amazing. And it was like a healing moment because it's not just about getting a massage, it's like you're getting a massage in an environment that is geared towards those who've been through the trauma that we have had, and with it is very much trauma-informed therapy. And it was just really someone doing something for you, and yeah, and but you know, and and just really out of like again, of the it's like that that thing of like the ornaments and the um, you know, the kids' little chicken scraw scratch handwriting of like we love you. Um it is, it's just like those that those are the things that sustain. So I wanted to give them a shout out and um them and everyone like that.

SPEAKER_01:

It's like having a crew on a on a marathon, you know. It's like having somebody just to cheer you and keep you on her pace you a little bit.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, exactly. For me, a shout out to Amy Cherracks, to Chex, my girlfriend Chex. She was my uh my running partner for my first LA Marathon. And we dragged each other through it. We we each had some tough miles that we had. We're like, just leave me behind, go. And uh we were like, no, no, uh, we have to go on together. We'd get to the end together, and we did. Um, but yeah, it it is like that now. I I feel like that is us there, our entire community right now carrying each other through this, which we are going to continue to do. Well, we're not going anywhere, we're not going anywhere.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, no. Some might like us to go somewhere, but I'm just gonna say, yeah, sure's a lot that would.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I am never leaving. I'm doubling down. Um if I could buy a couple more lots right now, I would. I'm not in a position to, but I would. I would love to buy a couple lots and keep them in our community. Amen to that. Um, on that note, thanks for joining us. You can find me, Shauna at Beautiful Altadina online on in our Facebook private Facebook group, on our uh public Facebook page, on our public Instagram, and on Substack, which is also where you can find Steve.

SPEAKER_01:

At the Alta Policy Walk.

SPEAKER_03:

Substack.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, you said that's where you can find Steve. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm just just reiterating. And um just to remind people too, we'd love to hear from you and hear your comments and your tips. Um so you know, if you if there are things that you want us to cover, if you have questions, if there are any of that, um drop us an email. It's beautiful Alfedina O G at gmail.com. I actually had a tip. You can also do it through Instagram, which is how um, you know, I get a number of things. Someone sent me a tip um, you know, with some upset of like, oh my gosh, there's a data center coming to East Pasadena. And it was like a screenshot of the address and um and uh the notice that Amazon had recently purchased an industrial property in Pasadena at 2964 Bradley Street for just shy of 80 million, and it's a 170,000 square foot building, and it's going to be a data center. And then, you know, so thank you, uh reader, for for dropping that. And that's um that's on New York Drive.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's the old Earthlink Building.

SPEAKER_03:

Exactly. That's exactly it is the old Earthlink building. Yeah. Right adjacent Keneloa Mesa. I think it's kind of eh? Sorry. Sorry. So I thought it was kind of interesting that um that had come up again like it was a new thing, but it's not. That's been a data center that's been in use for many years.

SPEAKER_01:

Um we have the power to function.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, that's just it. That's my that's my point. It's it's what's been it's been happening. It doesn't sound like there's any new use. Um, it sounds like if you if you were to believe Reddit that the new use may be quantum computing chips and that this would be a fabrication center for that, but it doesn't sound like it's gonna be suddenly a data center that some people thought it was.

SPEAKER_01:

I can't imagine that they wouldn't be celebrating that in the newspaper here in Pasadena about the economic development that that would bring. So honestly, knowing knowing that world and knowing the fact we have so few of these types of wins, yeah that would be a win we'd be championing.

SPEAKER_03:

Exactly. So for for those you know who send these things in and send those tips in, um, we'll keep following it. It doesn't look like it is what it sounds like um on its face, but we'll keep following that one. And if you have other stories like that you want us to check, look into, follow, let us know and we will.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I love a good fact check and a little investigation.

SPEAKER_01:

I also love good comments and good feedback.

SPEAKER_03:

Me too. We do. Or even the bad ones.

SPEAKER_01:

So to those that have given us those, thank you.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you. So until next time, take care of yourselves and we'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_01:

Enjoy the holiday season.