Season 2 / Episode 3: The One We Forgot to Title

One year after the Eaton Fire, the dust still hasn’t settled — literally or figuratively.

In this more emotionally raw episode of After the Ashes, co-hosts Shawna Dawson Beer and Stephen Sachs look back at the first 90 days after the fire. What was happening on the ground, what we understood then, how many solutions were proposed, and how many of today’s cascading failures were locked in during those earliest weeks.

We also name something that isn’t being talked about nearly enough: Year Two is a financial siege on fire survivors. Shawna has said repeatedly that Altadena residents are being “smoked out” — priced out, delayed out, and exhausted out of returning home. Steve adds we are being “starved out,” as the financial granaries that kept families afloat are depleted while rebuilding remains stalled for too many. 

This is our 27th episode and we cover:

• Where we each were during the first three months after the fire
• Governor Gavin Newsom’s announcement of a new wildfire recovery fund and potential mortgage relief
• What's up with FEMA’s limited lead soil testing program, with results not expected until April
• The expanding environmental crisis across Altadena revealing itself 
• The complete absence of county oversight, post-remediation testing, or enforceable standards
• And the “cowboy” cleanup economy, where contaminated soil and debris are being hauled from site to site across our community with little to no monitoring

With responsibility now clearly established, this episode marks our continued shift away from blame and toward solutions — the ones we’ve been advocating for since day one and the new ones we're going to need as Altadena enters its second year after the fire — and how we can continue to be our own best advocates. Steve also shares how the emotional weight of this year has finally caught up to him, prompting a rare pause from his usually relentless daily writing on AltaPolicyWonk.

This isn’t a light listen but it’s an important one. The section on how toxic soil is being moved around Altadena unchecked is worth the time all on its own.

Small Business Shout-Out: Sidecca

We close every episode by uplifting a local business, and this week it’s Sidecca, the beloved clothing and gift shop at Mariposa Junction (Mariposa & Lake). They had just celebrated their reopening when they were hit again by water damage after the recent rains. If you love Altadena style, thoughtful gifts, and community rooted businesses, Sidecca is another one to support. Follow them on Instagram @sidecca. Donate via their GoFundMe if you can. And don’t miss the beautiful new mural currently going up at their storefront

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:02

Welcome to After the Ashes, the beautiful Altadina podcast on Los Angeles fire recovery and public policy. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01: 0:10

Feel free to ad lib, Steve. Feel free to ad lib it.

SPEAKER_00: 0:13

This is your co-host, Steve. The failures are clear, and this season we're focused on solutions and the path forward for rebuilding after the urban fire. That's our new intro. I like it.

SPEAKER_01: 0:23

Do you like it? I do. It's being workshopped. We're workshopping a new intro. I'm sick of listening to the old intro 27 episodes later. Um, we didn't think we would do more than 12 or 12.

SPEAKER_00: 0:34

Oh, this is the 27th.

SPEAKER_01: 0:35

It is.

SPEAKER_00: 0:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 0:36

And um, I don't think we thought we would in a million years we would be doing this still.

SPEAKER_00: 0:40

I mean that we're still talking about all this?

SPEAKER_01: 0:42

That we still need to be talking about all this. Well, I know. I would just say, like, so this is our second uh week of taping in the new year, the second week of a new season, third episode of a new seed is season, season two. Um, and you know, Steve and I have been talking a lot about and and also talking to the community at large, but what is the vibe? And the vibe is weary. Yeah, it's we're tired.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09

It's really been weird. I I you know, ever since our last episode, honestly, Shauna, like by this weekend, I just I I mean, my raiders will know I haven't even written.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19

Steve didn't write for a few days.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20

Like I still haven't written, and I'm still trying to find the uh the inspiration.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:26

I I just I feel like we need to change it up. I'm just not sure what the answer is.

SPEAKER_01: 1:33

Yeah, and we Steve and I have been talking a lot about this. That you know, uh at this point, you know, we know who to blame, right? I don't think there's any question about who to blame, where we have been failed on every level, where we continue to be failed. Like uh, and at some point it gets really exhausting just talking about that, which is why all year, last year for season one, with those, you know, 24, 25 episodes, we did go on, you know, at length around solutions, policy solutions, fiscal tool solutions, a lot of solutions, because you know, this is not just about saying, hey, this sucks, you suck, but hey, no, here's how to fix it. There are other ways that we have lots of paths forward. But when no one is listening and nothing is changing and nothing is happening, and it's more and more of the same, it's quite demoralizing.

SPEAKER_00: 2:17

Well, you know, and that's that's a feature, not a bug for the blob, I like to say. You know, somebody said to me back when I was dealing with this stuff a few years ago is you just the blob takes the punches and just keeps taking the punches. And what it does is A, it tires you out, but B, it distracts you because you start then going, Well, why can't I beat the blob? Why can't I beat the blob? The blob just keeps staying there, doing it, taking those punches, taking those punches, taking those punches, and it doesn't stop. And I guess that's the frustration, and that's why most people walk away. You know, and part of the journey that we've been doing here, Shauna, is is much about educating Altadina and our listeners that this is how it works. This is the way the system is designed, and it's designed this way for a reason. It's designed to distill those that want to be there and those that don't. Yeah. And I mean, you of all people know. Yeah. But also what it does is there's a use of the blame game. The more you get into the blame game, the more you sound like the person that doesn't want to be reasonable. Does that make sense what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01: 3:35

Of course it doesn't. Well, and I think that it's very easy for those who choose to continue to make decisions that perhaps are not in our best interest to discredit those who do have actually forward-looking, forward-thinking solutions and say, oh, well, these people are just whiners and complainers and they're not doing anything. And uh, you know, is this is a tool that's been used to silence women a lot. Welcome to the party, Steve. Now, no, welcome to, you know, um, you know, the education of the white first century male.

SPEAKER_00: 4:06

I I'm I'm used to being silenced, okay?

SPEAKER_01: 4:09

But discredited. I mean, this is it. It's we could go on at length as to all the things that you know we revere in men that we don't in women.

SPEAKER_00: 4:17

Well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. This is not about men and women. This is about town.

SPEAKER_01: 4:21

But it it's not, but it is uh an example of that, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00: 4:25

This is kind of how it rolls. But you know, it's interesting. The other day, you know, one of the things that I've been thinking about is sort of the reboot of the Substack and how to reboot the Substack. And, you know, I was thinking about it. We're at a year, and I wanted to look back at that first period of time between say January 7th and when I started writing the Substack in the end of March. And I started going back through my emails in that period and who I emailed, what I emailed, who I was talking to, how I was talking about. And, you know, by the 7th of February, I had that article up on um Real Clear Politics, which was the plan. And the plan was originally the idea that I got to was if there was something out there, let them attack the out there as opposed to let them attack nothing. You know, them being the machine, them being the government, and say, look, why are we not discussing whatever it is? We need to be discussing something. Because at the time there was nothing. Do you remember those days? Yeah. Everybody was standing around, like, I don't know. You know, we were getting this flurry of executive orders that did absolutely nothing. We looked at all of our leaders and they were like, well, we're going to convene this group, we're going to convene that group. And look, the machine was starting. But my hope was at that time to start to shape that narrative as it was starting. And by the end of February, early March, we started to see the contours of what's happening. And it's interesting to look back now and look at it and say, oh, okay. But you know, the amount of work it takes to try to, you know, oh my God, you got something published on Real Clear Politics, a national publication. And then the media never picked it up here. I know. And you're like, I remember emailing everybody. Yeah. And I was like, guys, look, you know, we're all sitting around casting about saying we've got this problem and that problem. Here's a solution. Right. And nobody wanted it. And it was like, I think that that was that moment, you know, again, there was a lot happening very fast. That's when the golf course situation was happening. That's when the Army Corps was getting ramped up. Like, that's when the first stage of this whole thing was going. But I mean, I I I challenge you to go back and look at some of the stuff. I mean, before you and I started corresponding, I mean, it was all there. And then I got the what are you doing talking about incorporation email from you guys?

SPEAKER_01: 6:44

Well, but I mean it's true. And I I think that is anyhow, the case for incorporation uh makes itself every day that we get further into this. But yeah, that we are as we've discussed in the before, we have a long road ahead before we we can get into that. Of course, of course. But yeah, I think that is that's it.

SPEAKER_00: 6:59

But I mean, for now, um it was a very interesting exercise, you know, to go back after a year and take a moment and read. Yeah, absolutely, and read all of it. And say, look, look at where we started. Yep. And look at how far we've come. And then I haven't even gone back and looked at the substack. I was just going on emails and who I talked to and how I was going back and forth, who is engaging, who I've met with, who I haven't met with. I mean this stuff that we've been talking about here have been at the highest levels. And I guess, and that's the other part is back to your point about I, you know, as the fall was going after the veto and after, you know, 782 got through, and we looked at what was happening, you know, that's when it started to shift to that blame dynamic. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Because that's when the criticism was ramping up. We all knew where the blame was, and we all know what the blame is. And I know you especially have been you and the people you've been advocating with have known all this for years and years and years because of your frustrations trying to get things through the county. Right. But the stakes have gone up dramatically, yet the rules are essentially the same. And I I think it's it's hard for people on the outside to understand a lot of this and understand the journey. I think the journey is also a very interesting thing, too. Like when you're not accustomed to being a part of this, as many advocates who have become part of this conversation, who have gotten involved in, you know, this process and decided, you know what, I want to do this for the right things. I want to do this because it I can, you know, I believe that there are there are wrongs happening, you know? And even if there aren't wrongs uh happening, I just want to be a part of the conversation because I think I can be additive to it. And how it transforms you in the process. Again, you've been involved in this for a very long time. So you are used to having a public position in the community. A lot of us who haven't, you know, it's a very strong. I know.

SPEAKER_01: 8:58

No, it and it is uh a heavy yoke to wear, um, which is especially evident for some of our community organizers who are, you know, who are younger and a little greener than you and I in a lot of ways, Steve, and so fighting for the right things and the and with from the right ideals, for the right ideals, with the right perspective, and doing everything right. And um, as you and I both know, that only accounts for that only matters so much and accounts for so much. You're still gonna take a lot of shit from a lot of people because there's no pleasing everyone. There's, you know, you're you're gonna take a lot of shit because it's not even just about pleasing everyone, everyone's in a different place. They're going to perceive what you're doing regardless of the reality of it through their own lens. Um, and that's uh that can be a really bitter pill. And I think a number of our community organizers are sadly, you know, having to kind of meet up with that reality or hit up against that reality at this point. Um, and it sucks, right? I mean, you and I know this, it sucks. Um, when especially when you're not used to being the person who's got the target on your back.

SPEAKER_00: 10:05

Well, and and when you look back, you know, as as you've gone through your career of being an advocate and being a public member of the community, working with the press, which I've been doing for decades at this point. That's what I'm trying to say is I mean, you have this tremendous amount of experience and tremendous amount of comfort in that space. I don't know. And I'm still exhausted. I think comfort's the wrong word because I don't think anybody's ever comfortable being out in public. But I think, you know, it's really interesting. What would you say was the big is the biggest challenge that you putting aside the personal trauma that you've experienced in the last year? What has been the biggest challenge for you, Shauna, as you've gone through this advocacy process? I mean, you know, I I think there's a lot of people out there that want to. I I think this is an interesting topic for them.

SPEAKER_01: 10:50

I think the biggest challenge is the reality that most are not operating with all of the information. They most folks are operating with a very limited set of facts, a very limited set of information. Some of that is not real. Um, but they've been been told repeatedly by various people that it is. And, you know, as we both know, everyone has to arrive at a place of, you know, what kind of you know, of pulling that veneer, removing the veneer, peeping behind the curtain, so to speak. You have to arrive there in your own time. No one else can get you there. So for me, that has been one of the biggest frustrations because I think that if through there were some miraculous way that all of our community members and community leaders and community orgs were all on the same page around what was real and what was not, and what things really meant and what was being done and why, for all of these kind of, you know, behind the curtain reasons that most are never privy to, and we shouldn't have to be, right? This is like I've said this before, like uh I shouldn't need to be none of us should need to be doing this. But, you know, I think um trying to get people there is really tough. And then once they do get there on their own path and through their own journey, you know, sometimes it's too late for critical decisions, as we've seen in the last year. And that's tough, you know. But um, I will go back to saying too that I think that everybody um is tired. A lot of the conversation right now, now that the heavy emotion and busyness and flurry of activity around the one-year anniversary is starting to settle a little bit now that we're a week out, not much, but a little bit. I know I've seen the the tone and the tenor and the of conversation in my group really centering around how heavy this is. And the fact that, you know, I think for most of us, including my myself to some degree, you know, as a fire survivor, we have all been, you know, juggling. We we've been in survival mode for the last year for an entire year. We have been in some form of fight or f fight or flight, right? And um and and quite literally in this case, people are either fighting or fleeing, right? Those are our options. But um, you know, uh that's not, I don't need to tell anybody because we all know that that is not a healthy state of being. And you can't even begin to process the trauma, the grief, or anything else that we have had to, you know, go through this year. Can't even begin when you are still living that trauma every day, as so many of us are. You know, I just had this conversation with one of my neighbors this morning about the, you know, how the toll this has taken um on them as individuals, the toll it's taking on their relationship and their friends and neighbors' relationships, where, you know, because people are just now starting to, I think, have all of this settle and feeling like, oh my gosh, how are we a year into this? And feeling like for so many of us, we've hardly made any progress. Like people are still battling with their insurance claims, like myself. People are still now on the precipices we've talked about, of you know, another uh disaster of its own making, which is losing ALE and what's gonna happen to those folks when they don't have solutions yet, they don't have money yet from a lawsuit, they don't have the ability to rebuild, they don't have all the answers they need to make those decisions. Um that is the this is really very real, heavy, life-changing shit. And every I saw the best thing I can. I've seen so many great memes floating through the group as everyone is like processing this. But I think one of my favorites was like, thanks for the free trial of 2026. I would like to cancel my subscription. Like, please cancel my subscription now. Uh, because you know, it's as I said in my New Year's post where I was like, I refuse to even say the H word. I'm not gonna say H N Y. I'm not even saying it. I'm not tempting fate because I think we all know what we have in store this year and maybe better luck next year, especially, you know, when we have federal agencies shooting people in the street and have to add that collective trauma and the collective trauma of that same federal agency coming into our community on the one-year anniversary. You know that happened, Steve? Yeah, that this is on construction sites where people are trying to rebuild their homes, their lives, our town, people are now living in that fear that these arbitrary, you know, uh I don't even know what to call it, but you know, uh they're arbitrary kidnappings. It's what I don't know how else to describe it. It's what it is are happening, and people are living in fear, and you know, as they should. So it's um it's a dark time. And then of course, even just what expressed itself on you know, the remnants of the Tetina Jewish temple yesterday. You know, we had um for those who are not in the group, probably wouldn't have seen it, but someone had sprayed grid graffiti that said R.I.P. Rene, fuck the Zionists. And, you know, I think that is unfortunately misguided. You know, there's no group, not that should be. I I I think that when people are like, what is this about? How did this happen? And and we won't we won't go too far into this, but I I do want to explain it before we move on, is that you know, there's been a lot on TikTok recently, even though it's not new and it's not news, about the IDF try training ICE agents. The IDF trains a lot of police forces and helps train police and a lot of military forces. That's not exactly news, but for some, they have kind of conflated those issues, and then you get into this place, and and then it's like, great, let's blame the juice because you know, let's blame whatever marginalized group is the flavor of the day because we don't want to look at what's really happening. And um, it's really sad to see that ex that express itself or rear its ugly head, not just in the nation at large or in our town at large, but right in our backyard like that.

SPEAKER_00: 16:42

Well it's a lot of no, and and this is sort of what's been hanging over my head for the last few days. I had a conversation with some people about this, and you know, I I I've reached a point where I'm tired of discussing the problem. We all know what the problems are. But how the hell are we gonna solve it?

SPEAKER_01: 16:59

I mean, and I know that and how do you not discuss it when no one wants to actually address solutions?

SPEAKER_00: 17:05

Because they get it by keeping the problem going, they're perpetuating what they want. And that's the problem, is that if you're talking about the problem, you're not talking about the solution. If you're not talking about the solution, then whatever the game that somebody wants to play gets done. And I think you know, we're watching, at least at the national level, with the examples of what's been going on with ICE for months now. Yeah, I mean, we've seen this this this elevation or this, you know, continuation from when our our state senator was tackled in a news conference where Christy Noam did nothing to stop it to where we are today, which is everybody's pointing fingers. And it's amazing. On Saturday, somebody said to me, You need to watch the video. And I didn't want to watch the video because I don't watch videos of these types of people.

SPEAKER_01: 17:56

Did you specifically watch the New York Times investigative piece with the video where they have it from every angle? I I watched it from two different places.

SPEAKER_00: 18:03

Painful eye opener. And it was the Washington Post that had it where I'm sure it's the same one where they were showing the one they showed Eric Swallow and someone else. And they you you could see clearly that it wasn't a threatening thing. And on the flip side, you had the right-wing media that had it look like the guy was getting hit because all of a sudden you see the phone shaking, and then all of a sudden you see what's happening. Right. And it's amazing how neither side, you know, both sides, and again, it's obvious when you see it from the uh from the distance what really happened. And and I I I don't want to get into the right, wrong, indifferent about it, because there's nothing right about somebody being shot, regardless. I just think we have to get to a point where we need to stop. Like at what point do we get back to some form of semblance? I mean, we're we're going down to what power's basis thing is. And you know, I I talk about it from the perspective of people ask me this question. The Roman emperors, right? And you look at the Roman emperors at the gladiator events and the thumb up and thumb down. Do I give or do I take? And that's what power really is all about at its most base level. When we start to tear away all of these elements of society, we start tearing it all down, we get to anarchy. And then it's about just, I'm just gonna pull away from you or you're gonna pull away from me. And I feel like our political discourse is getting to that point right now. And you know, it starts in Washington, no doubt. But you're starting to hear it creep into even the state of the state. You know, you start hearing this, it's blaming everyone else. Instead of looking in the mirror and saying we need to solve some of these problems, it's somebody else's fault. It's not my fault. It's some when you look for somebody to blame, that's the beginning of the end. And it's not about easy answers because sometimes it's Looking in the mirror and saying, holy shit, it's on me. And I guess it was it was that realization over the weekend that I was like, I I'm tired. I'm tired of saying we've been telling people we've been dra I I feel like I've been dragged into this it's the blame game and you know, scoring the points. And you know, there are a few of my posts last week were pretty poignant. I mean, I really laid into Gavin, I laid into our electeds here for a reason. It's justified, it's but at the same time I found myself descending into that dark hole. Well, it is dark, and and and and that's where I don't want us to go. And I think that we've reached a point. That's why I'm asking you, Shauna, as an activist, how you stayed above the fray for so long. Because I could see it becoming all consuming.

SPEAKER_01: 20:52

I I felt it because you you have to, you have to find ways to take mental health breaks. I'm not even kidding, even if it's 15 minutes, you know, um, there are nights, you know, where I will be with whomever I'm with and just say, I need to that we need to not talk about this for the next two hours that we are having dinner, watching this TV show, playing mahjong, having a cocktail, whatever it is. Because, you know, half the time when I'm out, you know, it is this, it is the community. Um, and obviously this is constantly the topic of conversation because this is consuming all of our lives in every way. So how can it not be? And it will for years. There is no movie, it's like we keep saying it's like everyone's being re-traumatized daily. There's no moving forward or moving on yet. Um, we're we're a long way off from that. So the how is is you just have to find the mental health where you can find it. And then for me, Steve, when you ask how I do it, I do it because it's the right thing to do. And people might want to take shots at me or say I'm negative, you know, or I'm, you know, I'm only pointing out what's wrong. Well, because the things that are wrong are really wrong and they're they're going to prevent us from true recovery and having the kind of rebuild that we should have. And also they're going to keep us from keeping our community, whatever's left of it intact, and keep and maintaining some dignity for that community and allowing us to really people to come home and keep talking about coming home, you know, to what? What home are we coming back to? And um, so I think that as much as you know, you want to be we want to be positive and we want to, which I think we've done actually a pretty measured job here of constantly illustrating solutions that there are paths forward. You know, every time I raise one of these other nightmare issues in our group, you know, because there's a lot we don't even cover on this podcast, it gets covered in the group daily. And um, you know, every time it's it's with here's what you can do, because we have agency, right? We have agency, we have the ability, as we were talking about in the early days of this podcast, we have the ability to be our own best advocates and to continue to do that and to make noise. And we have seen that the progress that has been made in the last year, the developments that have occurred, things that are beginning to percolate and move, that has been the direct result of pressure exerted by groups of community members. Um, that's what it takes. You know, we can be our own advocates, we can be our own leadership, we can be the change that we're looking for. And so I think, you know, that is where we need to that that's how we have to channel all of this, all of this energy, this frustration, and you know, and it's not for everybody. I say this all the time. I recognize this, you know, not everyone has the emotional ability to do this, not everyone has the time to do this, not everyone has the skills to do this. We all have a role to play, and it is not the same. But, you know, this is what it means when you say that it takes the village, like for real. This one takes the entire village. This is, I'll go back to what I've said so many times. Like, everyone has to find ways to unite around this, the central point of getting our community back in as in a healthy, intact way as possible, you know, and and well set up for the future. Um, so you know, it's I think about when you're talking about going back and looking at the first 90 days, I can tell you exactly what I was doing the first 90 days because I know I remember vividly we were obviously all in shock. There's just no question. We were all in shock and just functioning on adrenaline. But outside of that, you know, I was managing, I and my fellow admins, you know, it's not just me, it's not a one-man show or one-woman show here. It was me and my three fellow co-admin moderators for the group working around who all lost their homes, all of us lost our homes, working around the clock through multiple moves, displacement, all the things that we all went through in those first 90 days, keeping the community grounded, um, informed, holding space for everyone to just kind of process what was happening to us. Um, that's what we were doing. That it was a, we quickly were just this, you know, support group of thousands and thousands of people. It's what that group still is. It's why I maintain it. As much as I might have a very strong distaste for Meta and Facebook, um, I often say you have to meet people where they are, and that's where people are, especially people over 60 in our community. I we have a big chunk. I would guess 25% of my, I would go have, don't quote me, I gotta look at demo specific demographics, but I would guess that 25% of my active membership are over 60. And this is their primary source of information. Yeah. Right. And I have always taken that really, really seriously. So when um that we keep it factual and unbiased and honest and real. And, you know, and that's been problematic for some of our members who have feelings otherwise, but you know, feelings are not facts, as I like to say. Um, so you know, it's that is what we've been doing, and I think it's what I've we've continued to do while somehow doing all of this. And, you know, it's a full-time job a lot of days. I don't know, but but here we are. So, you know, that that is where we're at. And I think that for our part here, we just continue to talk about solutions and hope that somewhere, somehow, um, the electeds and others who have the ability to help public officials, correct, have the ability to um navigate this ship where it needs to go. Um, and if they cannot and will not, as I said at the top of the year, or I said at the close of last year, at the close of season one, that if they I think that this year is going to be the year of a reckoning, as you said, it's gonna be a political reckoning, it's going to be I assert the LA Times said that of what's the truth? It's gonna be a year of accountability. And as I said, it's also gonna be a year of the legal action because this is the year where it's like, hey, we've had a whole year to get things right. So now if we're not, I think we're going to see additional legal actions to force that reality uh because we're we're gonna have to, which is, you know, a good segue into talking about. Um, I'm gonna jump, I'm gonna, I'm gonna change things up on Steve right now because I'm gonna take topics out of order. Um, we were going to talk about Gavin Newsom's announcement about the new wildfire fund, and then he was also talking about film industry and tax credits. So the, and we will come back and round out the episode with that. But I also want to talk about this FEMA announcement. So we mentioned on the last episode because we'd had you know some tricks, there were some, you know, percolating news about this, that FEMA would in fact be doing some soil testing and what that, but no one knew exactly what that meant or what it was gonna look like. And yesterday the FEMA announcement dropped that they will be that they have kind of done an about face on a need for some environmental testing and some soil testing. The parameters of this are incredibly vague. I don't who knows, but they will be testing quote unquote a hundred random sites to see you know what they come up with and what the result of that, like what the ramifications of that, what's gonna happen if if that what they're also, it's worth noting, only looking for lead, which continues to be really problematic because lead is not the only thing that is toxic in our community. There's so many other substances that no one wants to live with that are in that soil, but they're only looking at lead. But the fact that the feds are doing anything at all raises a lot of questions. Why? Right? Why to what end? Why and to what end? What what because I feel like the feds don't do this for you know to be um altruistic. This is not that they're concerned with the health of Aldedinans and Palisadians. This is something else, and what that is, I think remains to be seen, and and we'll have to see. But um I'm glad that it is happening to some something's happening because what we do know, and I've become personally more aware of this just driving around the community and taking a look is that we have toxic soil everywhere. Yeah, there's a lot of um toxic material that was left on properties via private debris removal in some cases by Army Corps, either incomplete or just incorrectly done um clearings. And that, you know, that dirt doesn't stay put, right? It's getting transported from one lot to another. In some cases, it's being used as fill without proper soil compaction because no one's monitoring. There's um there's a lot of really scary Wild West cowboy shit happening happening up there. And it's not all bad. I've also observed some developers that are doing a really great job, and I'm actually going to work on a list of them because I think that now that we're seeing work done, it's kind of nice to go, okay, great. These guys are actually doing a good really they're they're doing it right and they're doing it right for a fair price. So, like, here's people just to actually I I haven't been this whole year. People have asked me for recommendations for developers, and I've had none because I there was no one that I would feel confident.

SPEAKER_00: 30:11

I would use a different word than developer. Well calm contractor because developer denotes a it does.

SPEAKER_01: 30:18

Okay. Well, but they are effectively, you know, they they are develop doing development, but I hear you. But it is not the scary, that not that that developer with a uh with the big D, let's put it that way, or a small D in this case. Um so anyhow, there's there's a lot going on out there that sadly people are not aware of. And, you know, we're in this hurry to just slap dash build all these houses. And we've got you know close to 500 homes under construction right now. And, you know, some of those are not being rebuilt in a way that they should, and they're being rebuilt on really questionable foundations, literally. And um, you know, what that's gonna mean for the community down the road. Um, you know, I think it's like so many things, just kicking the can down the road. It's not this current group of people's problem. By the time it is a problem, some there'll be new people in office who will have to deal with it. So it's easy to go, oop, not my problem. But I think it'll be really interesting to follow what is happening with the soil testing. Those results are supposed to be published in April. Um, and what's going to happen, you know, since, you know, to go back, like we again to reiterate, we in Altadina and as well as the Palisades did not have the full post-fire remediation that other burn zones have had, you know, including we always talk about Woolsey in 2018, but also, you know, the conversation came up this morning about Sonoma County and post their fire, post the Tubbs fire, that was a complete cleanup. Um, but we didn't get that. So, and we also have had no post-remediation testing, which previously was the standard, because if anything still tested for anything, not just lead, anything that shouldn't be out there, there was additional remediation. And we didn't get that. So hopefully we're gonna see some solutions.

SPEAKER_00: 32:03

I'm just curious because I know this has been a topic that's come up and you know, I've had conversations with electeds about this. When they did the Tubbs fire, when they did Woolsley, when they did Sonoma, or Sonoma is tubs, I think.

SPEAKER_01: 32:18

Um Sonoma's tubs.

SPEAKER_00: 32:20

Did they find?

SPEAKER_01: 32:22

Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 32:23

And what did they do?

SPEAKER_01: 32:24

Additional remediation, additional soil scraping, removal.

SPEAKER_00: 32:30

So okay. All right. I'm just kind of curious because it's sort of been this well, like you said, like there's a solution.

SPEAKER_01: 32:37

It wasn't like, oh, we couldn't do it. We like why.

SPEAKER_00: 32:40

Why wasn't it done? There wasn't enough money. You know, I I think there's obviously answers to all that. Yeah. I I guess everybody said it's you know I I I don't know.

unknown: 32:53

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 32:56

It's fatiguing.

SPEAKER_01: 32:58

It is it is fatiguing, Steve. I know. You should see Steve's face. Steve is like like the robot that the battery's drained and he's done. Um and I get it because I think that's how so many of us are feeling. Because again, it's so hard to keep talking about all this.

SPEAKER_00: 33:11

I I hate this. I hate this because I've had it happen to me before. And it's where they keep moving the goalposts on you. It's where they keep just making you keep going to see how far you're willing to go. And in reality, they know you're not gonna you you're gonna stop before you'll actually get there. And they don't care. That's the whole point. It's like I know it's it's callous. Yeah, it's callous that people are being starved out of their homes financially. It's it's callous that ALE's running out and they've waited a year before anything's really happened and they've done token 10%ers in some like PR campaigns to try to make everybody feel like, oh, look at there's progress. Look at on the internet. You know, and in reality of the 500 homes, there's still six five hundred structures, right?

SPEAKER_01: 34:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:03

There's still 8,500 that have to be rebuilt. Yeah. And I'm like, what are we talking about here? You're talking less than 10%.

SPEAKER_01: 34:15

It it's yeah, it's right around 10-15. It's it's almost no, it's it's it's not actually. It's five percent. It is, it's five, thank you. I'm I did this math for how many.

SPEAKER_00: 34:27

People are running out of ALE. And at what point do you start to go, holy, you know, this is designed to go this way? And you go, they're just gonna keep moving the goalposts. They're gonna keep, you know, a friend of ours at one time said a speech, they go, Steve, if I was to create any character, you're Charlie Brown. And Lucy just kick pulls the football out from you all, you know, like but you want to keep going. And that's the admirational part. And you know, I feel like Altadina is Charlie Brown, you know, and I feel like all they're gonna do is just keep pulling the football because at the end of the day, it's it it's not about decency anymore.

SPEAKER_01: 35:13

No, it's not. I think um when we spoke yesterday, Steve, you we were saying that you know it's financial siege, right? That was how you described it.

SPEAKER_00: 35:21

Yeah. Um, I have said in the past that, you know, a friend of mine brought it up and he was telling me a story of family members that are, you know, the ALE is ending out, and yeah, this is what they're they're faced with is you know they're starving us out.

SPEAKER_01: 35:33

The granaries are being depleted, and they're the financial granaries are being depleted. So, I mean, it but this is you know, like what I've been saying the last year too, that they were smoking, I've been quoted in multiple places and like we're being smoked out. We are a community being smoked out. Like if we're still here, they are smoking us out through delays and yeah, but now it's the siege, right?

SPEAKER_00: 35:53

Yeah. Now it's the siege is setting in, and now it's a question of okay, your stores are run out. How long are you gonna hold out? You know, and you know, there will be some people who will get fed, and that'll keep the that'll keep the barbarians away because you can't have everybody. But you know, it's just it it's just sad to watch. I guess that's the whole point. And it didn't have to be, and that's the hardest part. And people just didn't have a choice when they should have had a choice.

SPEAKER_01: 36:20

No, I had a con a conversation with a general contractor working on um multiple properties this morning, and they they were from up north, they were from Sonoma, and we're had done, you know, um, I don't remember how many homes they said they did in Sonoma post the tubs fire, but many, and they're here now. And we're talking about the best practices that they're using and and how they're doing this development. And um it is um, I'm trying to now think of where exactly I was going with this, Steve. I got distracted.

SPEAKER_00: 36:51

You're talking about being starved out.

SPEAKER_01: 36:53

Yeah, but that you know, that that is it literally what's happening is that they're talking that they are meeting people who are at so many different places. People who are like, hey, I I want, I, you know, it's choice. I have the money to spend, but should I spend it? Is it a good investment to rebuild exactly what I had? Or I don't have the money and I just need to get home. Whatever that looks like, I have to get home. And, you know, and that's making some hard choices about what that house looks like. And, you know, do you want the same quality house or do you want more square footage? Right? That that's it. It's it's um, I've said this too before that it's like a bit of a Sophie's choice for everybody trying to weigh out what to do. And um, you know, I will say that every day that passes, I understand more and more all of my friends and neighbors who made pretty quick decisions to sell up and go because they needed to, they knew for their mental health, they needed to get on with their lives. And um, that is exactly what they've done, you know, and and these they've now they have new homes, some some in new cities in in LA, some in new states, some out of the country. And um in fact, I I would love to see a um Altadina diaspora diaspora map of like where we've all ended up. Like, where is the Altina diaspora, right? Where are we all gone? Where in the world, as I said in a poll months ago in the group, like where in the world is Altadena? Because we had all been just like I said, we were scattered like you know, uh dandelions in the wind, you know, like just everyone is everywhere. But I understand that those folks are actually starting to process and and move forward because they can. And those of us who have kind of stayed behind uh to fight to try and to try and do this, uh it's rough. So we'll see. We'll see what this year holds. I think we have some really interesting things to talk about um in our next episode. Um, investigations, audits, reports, things that are being called investigations but aren't. Um, you know, continuing momentum from a number of groups that continue to exert pressure to see the right thing done here. Um and I think uh this FEMA thing is just the tip of the iceberg on the the environmental issues here. And that is gonna be really interesting to see how that all shapes up. And of course, this new wildfire. What what's gonna happen with Gavin's wildfire fund?

SPEAKER_00: 39:16

Wow, well um they're fighting right now over whether or not his three billion dollar shortfall is really three billion dollars, or if that's just designed to placate some folks. Because if it was interesting, there was a quote somewhere where it said it's a projected three billion dollar shortfall based upon the next three fiscal years of income. So that means who knows what the shortfall was this year, and then they're pushing out against next year and the year after. So again, there's so many pieces, and you have to pay attention to the words everybody's using because the words are important. They're being chosen for a reason. Always and you know, I I guess that was part. why I wanted to have this conversation today, Shauna. I I I felt like for our listeners, you know, we have so many different areas that they come from, from the media to community organizers to just victims and survivors. You know, it just helps them understand some of the what it feels like on the inside. You know, we always like to I I particularly fall victim to the macro level conversations all the time. And you know focusing on the macro, the big picture, the political policy at the federal level, that kind of stuff, even the state level. But you know, you've always been very good about focusing on the people on the ground. And I think, you know, sometimes it you know it's good to go back to the root and why. And that's why this weekend has been nice to just kind of just take a break, focus on my family and just focus on the why. Like why are we why are we even doing this? And not let it dominate you to the point where it becomes about you.

SPEAKER_01: 41:00

Where it breaks you.

SPEAKER_00: 41:01

Where it breaks you it also becomes about you. Like it that's the piece that I think a lot of people don't understand until you really get into this is how quickly it can transform and consume you.

SPEAKER_01: 41:10

Well I think we are seeing no shortage of that and I will leave us at that note.

SPEAKER_00: 41:15

Well I just I think but I think that a lot of people it's important to understand that. It is especially for the younger people who might not understand what they're going through. This might be their first time doing this. Some of the people that are doing this they know what they're doing. But others they don't and so I think it's just you have a lot of information a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge and I think it's important for people to understand.

SPEAKER_01: 41:40

Well we all do.

SPEAKER_00: 41:41

So thank you for everything you've done for all these years and thank you for continuing to do it. And you know as much as we're doing this to educate about policy it's also educate about the process.

SPEAKER_01: 41:52

Yeah and the community and I think it's it's important and I hope it shines through and comes through every one of these episodes you know because of our perspective that it is very much this is survivor led perspective. You know this isn't the patriarchal approach of telling everyone what they need and how it should be but rather this is the community well some might say I'm doing that policy. You don't but those folks don't know you and that's you know we'll leave that I was going to say they can fuck off but I'm trying to be a little kinder and gentler this year. But uh you know with that should we talk about a small business? Yeah yeah let's wrap it up let's wrap it up sorry we were trying to keep it tight but then you know we like to be loose. Yeah but we did try. So I wanted to talk today we've talked about Sydeca before Sydeca is a really cute um little clothing shop and they have awesome gifts and you know I've highlighted them for um since they opened since they came to Aldedina when they left their shop on uh Washington and moved up the hill into our community we've talked a lot about you know just how great their ownership is and how great they've been in the community and you know they're located on um Mariposa on Mariposa and Lake they're right on that corner of Mariposa Junction. So they had suffered you know severe they they survived the fire that section of Mariposa Junction survived as everyone knows where um Betsy and Carchofi um Miss Dragon the print shop you know all of those businesses were located so the the physical structure survived but they had significant smoke damage that's taken you know varying degrees for people to get remediated and reopen. But for Sydeca in particular you know that was a tough long haul for them but they got they did it and had this amazing reopening and then they along with their neighbors on that block had um severe water damage with a a leaking roof and and a flood through this last rain. Right. Seriously you didn't see this oh my gosh yeah it's like fire and then rain. I know so they were shut down it was a whole thing and people were like oh don't they have insurance because there was a gofundme and they have a go fund me because they they need help. I mean who can survive this twice and someone was like oh why don't they just file a claim and it was like are you what world do you live in you know that you can't just go file a claim when you already have an open claim that isn't even done because you literally just lost everything to fire. But yes you should open a flood claim too because everyone knows how easy it is to tackle water damage through your insurance. So yeah um I just wanted to give them an extra shout out they are back they're doing a lot of special pop-ups they are a spot that has some of my favorite merch they're one of a few spots in town that has some of my favorite Altadena merch um things that I sport myself including a shirt that I had and loved and and quickly replaced. So you know I highly recommend that as a spot especially if you don't live on the hill that you trek up and check out they're absolutely worth your time and um they have a beautiful new mural that was just completed. I don't know if it's done done but I saw them in progress last week um and I saw some shots of it on social media the other day. It looks beautiful that's facing lake. So yeah Saideka go buy something cute for yourself or someone you know awesome well as this is a little bit more somber than we normally it is I know I know even Steve was like Shauna we gotta pump we gotta pep you up we gotta get you in character and I was like I good luck I'm fucking tired.

SPEAKER_00: 45:16

Yeah but you know that's why maybe it's a time to be a little bit more circumspect.

SPEAKER_01: 45:20

Yeah is that the right word yeah it is the right word it is it's it's time to kind of take stock yeah and see where we are at and uh gird our loins for what lies ahead well I I think a lot of the work has been done right now it's a question of decisions. Yeah and who we'll see well I don't think it's all done but we'll talk about that in the next episode.

SPEAKER_00: 45:40

All right we'll talk about it in the next episode with that we'll shut we'll we'll shut down this one and we'll move on to the next one.

SPEAKER_01: 45:45

We're gonna wrap it up. Thanks for listening. I'm Shauna Dawson Beer beautiful Altadina you can find us on social media um Instagram Facebook for our locals only groups um and of course Substack.

SPEAKER_00: 45:58

And I'm Steve Sachs the Alta Policy wonk you know it's getting easier to say that now at first it felt very embarrassing but now I'm kind of like yeah I am the Alta Policy he is the Alta Policy wonk I will start writing again I don't know when and we'll take time look at I took like a five month hiatus off it won't be five months I'm just trying to figure out I I want to change it up a little bit so I'm just trying to find that next I'm just saying I took that hiatus because I have so much energy is going you know everywhere else there's only so many hours in the day. So you know we got to make processes listen to us here than actually read my drawn out or not anyway with that we'll see.

SPEAKER_01: 46:31

So that's I and I have a substack if you are listening if you are listening thanks so much for listening to us. Indeed we we'll try not to make your ears bleed and we'll talk to you next time.

SPEAKER_00: 46:40

And all those people that put us as their number one news we're like what are we like the number one three news rate or number two we we we did we did pretty darn good um on our spot so that's just like one little picture is is Spotify but we'll talk about that actually at the top of the next episode on Spotify rankings all right I didn't mean to uh supersede oh there it is oops sorry next time all right anyway goodbye everybody bye