S2 E38: From Fix and Flip to Sober Living | How One Investor Found Purpose and Profit in Group Homes

What happens when a seasoned real estate investor loses everything overnight and has to completely rethink his business model?

In this episode of Closing Chapters, Brittney sits down with Jim Boad, a 25-year real estate veteran from Washington State who went from fix and flips and rental properties to running five sober living homes housing up to 50 men at a time.

Jim shares how the COVID eviction moratoriums pushed him to the edge of selling off his entire portfolio, and how a late-night internet search led him to a recession-proof housing model he had never considered. From his first home being nearly full within a month to now operating a full program with staff, a waiting list, and even a restaurant that employs men from his program, this conversation covers what sober living actually is, how it works financially, and why it might be the most impactful investment a veteran or military-connected investor could make.

Brittney also digs into the very real connection between military service, transition struggles, and the need for programs like this. If you have ever wondered why veterans fall through the cracks after separation, or if you are an investor looking for a model that generates strong returns while doing genuine good in your community, this episode is required listening.


Key Takeaways


• Sober living homes are largely unlicensed and far easier to launch than most investors expect.

• The income potential is dramatic: one five-bedroom home went from $2,300 per month income to $8,500 per month gross income.

• Two people per room reduces relapse rates significantly by eliminating self-isolation.

• Funding comes from state, federal, and clinic sources, so many residents arrive with two to four months of pre-paid housing.

• Military veterans are uniquely positioned to run these homes because of their structure, accountability, and heart for service.

• The investor and operator roles can be separated, creating a true partnership model.

• HOA compliance, quiet hours, and proactive neighbor communication make these homes great community members.

• Every FSBO showing and every sober living home is a door, not a dead end.

🎧 If this episode opened your eyes to a housing model you had never considered, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who needs to hear it. Whether that is a veteran looking for purpose in business, an investor searching for a better return, or someone who has been touched by addiction in their own family, this conversation is worth passing on.

If you have a heart to serve and want to know more about providing a group home, connect with Jim: https://jimboad.com

Closing Chapters Podcast: Where Every Mission Has A Story

Thanks for listening. We talk all things military real estate, my transactions, the mistakes, the wins, and simple plays you can use right now.

Work With Me:

• Buying or selling near Fort Bragg & Moore County
• Agents, partner with me 

Connect With Brittney:

🌐 Website

📚 Training Platform

📺 YouTube

📸 Instagram

📘 Facebook

💼 LinkedIn

📧 Email: brittney@homeswithbrittney.com

If this episode helped, follow the show, leave a quick review, and share it with a friend in PCS season.

Disclaimer: This podcast education only & is not legal, tax, or financial advice. Talk with your own pros about your situation. Opinions are my own.

© 2025 Brittney Frye. All rights reserved. Realtor, license # 352197 in NC. Brokerage: REAL Broker l Military Division

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hey there friends, welcome back to the closing chapters podcast, where every mission has a story. What was it like starting with the program? Like, how did you have to apply for it? Um, did you have to do anything different to the homes to make them qualified for the program? Like, what did that look like?

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Yes, well, I think one of the big big misconceptions with this is that this is a completely unlicensed business. So there are about five states here that that require like you to actually go through a formal process with the state or your city, where here I literally can just go pick up another house and I can retrofit, you know. And retrofitting house is isn't a lot. It's the big the only way you would tell that it's not just a regular single family home is because there's gonna be more furniture in the living room and two beds in each room.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Good morning, everybody. Welcome back to Closing Chapters Podcast. Today is especially cool because we have my friend Jim Bode on the call today. And we are gonna dive into a really interesting topic. As you all know, we talk about everything housing related and mainly in the military realm. So today is gonna be a little bit of a twist of some really cool stuff that Jim does in services that could be available to veterans that probably aren't tapped into near enough. But this is a community impact kind of podcast today. And I am so excited to dive in and hear about everything that Jim has done and the way that he impacts communities all over the place. So, Jim, tell us a little bit about you, your history, your background, and what you actually do.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Absolutely. So, uh, for the last 25 years, I've been a real estate investor, started out doing fix and flips, and then kind of throughout time moved into that Burr model where I would buy something, fix it up, refinance it, and then rent it out. And then uh, you know, COVID definitely pushed me into a different path because uh pretty much overnight, all of my tenants stopped paying their rent. And when I tried to find out what was going on, they just told me that they didn't have to pay and there was nothing I could do, and they were not wrong.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

So, so I'm gonna applaud you for a second. Let everybody know what state are you in, because that honestly makes a big difference. Because where you are at, the rules and regulations in your state in particular is one that is very protective of the tenants and does not help the owners.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yes, indeed. I'm in Washington state, and we never rebounded from that. Those those rules went in place for tenants and have stuck. Tenants in our state actually, if if someone, it doesn't matter what they're doing if they're a tenant, they get a free attorney to help fight the landlord because we're the evil landlords. Oh, it's it's it's horrid. I I never want to have an actual regular tenant in this state again. Oh, the last one I had to remove took me about four months, about eight thousand dollars. And I had to negotiate and settle with the person who literally just stopped paying because he didn't like paying his rent anymore. He still worked, he still made money, and I had to actually negotiate with him at the end for him to leave and not have to go to trial that he could that I wouldn't report him to credit, that I couldn't put any collections on him, and then I just had to let him go and live there for the next 30 days until he found another place. And the best part of that was he had the gall to use me as a rental reference.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

No, it could be like you better give me a good reference, or you know, I'm not moving out. This process all over again. Yes, yes, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

That one's there's still a little salt in the wound from that one.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Oh, I can't imagine. I we have properties of our own and we do not manage our learn long-term properties um for that reason. I cannot imagine being the person to have to just be on the other side of that. I just done one eviction, and that is enough. That is enough for me.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Not not a ton of fun. But ultimately, ultimately, we worked through that. My my attorney told me I had two options. You can move into one of the houses and you can start selling the others, and that's the way that you can get people out of your homes during during the COVID time, at least it was. So I was I was contemplating selling all my homes because I didn't know what to do at that point, because I still had mortgage payments that I was responsible for, right? And repairs and utilities and all that fun stuff. So uh and I kind of condensed 25 years into like 12 seconds there. So but uh but the the the fix and flip thing was just what it is, it was a lot of fixing and flipping homes. So but but uh so literally one night when I was uh doom scrolling after looking at all the red on my screen because nothing was actually in the black, I found a program that was talking about a recession proof housing model, and it was group homes. Okay, and you know, I I kind of didn't started digging into it, and you know, I didn't really even understand what group homes were. Um, I didn't really know much about sober living at the time either. Like sober living, what what what is it? And uh so I I started reading the program, it all made sense. I bought the program, I jumped in, and within the week I started putting uh my sober living program to work, and within about a month, I had my first home up and running and almost full. And uh haven't looked back since then. Since then, I I I've done about four I've done 14 sober living homes, and now I've condensed it down to five, and we house about 50 guys at a time. I I only work with men right now. Okay, and uh we we pretty much are always full and we have a waiting list, and it's it's been amazing. So okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

So, how does that work? How are you housing up to 50 men in five houses?

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Uh, because we have uh the the the cool thing about this model is is you don't actually rent the house anymore. Now you're now you're doing it out by the bed. And we we do two people per room, and there's two main reasons we do that. The first and most important reason we do that is it brings such a higher level of accountability to people. And our relapse rate is so much lower when we have two people per room. Pretty much every relapse we've had was in a solo room.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Oh, that's really interesting because they have this self-isolation in this space outside.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Okay, yes, and it's and it's and it's so hard. It's it's hard to bring people out of that self-isolation when they're not ready. And if you give them a place to self-isolate, they will.

SPEAKER_00 6:19

So okay, that's very cool. What was it like starting with the program? Like, how did you have to apply for it? Um, did you have to do anything different to the homes to make them qualified for the program? Like, what did that look like?

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Yes, well, I think one of the big big misconceptions with this is that this is a completely unlicensed business. So there are about five states here that that require like you to actually go through a formal process with the state or your city, where here I literally can just go pick up another house and I can retro, you know, and retrofitting house isn't a lot. It's the big the only way you would tell that it's not just a regular single family home is because there's going to be more furniture in the living room and two beds in each room.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

But but beyond that, it's it's it's you're just you're just doing a furnished, almost like an Airbnb. So you're just you're putting dishes in the cabinets. So you you have to just be move-in ready for people. Someone just needs to bring their backpack full of belongings and they should be able to move in this home. We we hand them a nice little entry basket where they've got new sheets and a new pillow and towels and some soap, and then they should be able to just start living in that home.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

That's very cool. Okay, so how do you get paid in this situation? Because right, obviously, if we're making a big transition in life, we're probably we may or may not have a job, we may or not may not be able to pay rent consistently. So, what does that look like for you?

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Yes. So I'll kind of break down just a quick uh difference between so really understanding what sober living is versus you know an inpatient drug clinic. Because the inpatient drug clinic is where we get the majority of our people. So the the drug clinic is where people go to actually get sober, and then we become that bridge of them staying sober or going back to where they were. And you know, for most people, the worst thing they can do is go get sober and then go right back to where they were with the same people doing the same things. So normally they're they're they're right back in the same place within a week when they go right back to where they were.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

So we get our funding from quite a few places. We get a lot of state and federal funding, and there's a lot of it throughout the country, and it's it's different depending on each city and and state. But uh, our inpatient drug clinics, some of them actually have their own funding. So people will come to us between with anywhere between two and four months worth of funding. And then there are lots of programs out there that we help guide people through that get them more funding. And we also do have people that transition into self-pay. Because most people are pretty prideful, and once they can, they really want to get onto that self-pay. I don't want free money anymore. I've got a job now, I want to pay.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

So yeah, that's super cool. Yeah, it is such a big reality. So we in South Carolina, I was there for um most of my adult life until recently. Um, but we I used to be a restaurant manager and we had a what you would call a halfway house is kind of like the term that they used in our area, but they made them go out and get jobs, and it was literally let me take you to the strip where all the restaurants are and you go get a job. You want to talk about putting them back in the same situation with the same people and the same dynamics? That is like the worst thing they could have ever done for them. So, like I I have experienced and lived exactly what you're saying. Like as a manager, it would crush my heart when you would find another needle in the bathroom or know that they're out back doing a drug deal. And it's because they have cash in hand. And I would encourage them so hardcore to go get a normal job. And it was like, if I could, if I could stick them in the kitchen, I would. If they didn't have to be a server, I wouldn't let them be a server. Like I did not want cash in their hands for that very purpose. I think that is one of the things they are not, um, there's no precursor to that. Like when you're when you're moving from impatient to getting back in the world, there's no one helping you handle your money or actually like hold the reins for you so that you don't slip and make an easy mistake like that. So um I think that's awesome that like they have an opportunity to just get there and settle and then be prideful and then be able to turn over to self-pay, not be forced to just get the first thing that's available that might throw them right back into that same scenario.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

I I couldn't, I couldn't agree with you more. And that is one of the things we love because sometimes it takes people four or six months before they're really ready to get back to work and and get back out and around that. Because uh we we have a little bit of an opposite story of yours, but it's for a different reason, though. We actually own a restaurant and and we we employ a lot of people that have been through our program or actively in our program. And uh but they're the environment's a little bit different, and it's it's kind of fun to have watched because when we started our restaurant, we didn't actually we we we were just starting our sober living homes, so there wasn't anyone working there. And we had at one point where everyone that worked in our restaurant would be at our our our restaurant bar drinking every night, where now it's almost all people that are in recovery, so no one in our restaurant drinks or does drugs. It's just such a it's such a different environment, which in a in a good way, because now I know that free drinks aren't going out the door every night to all the staff, but like it's it's it's pretty fun to see. My my wife and I actually really recognized it the other night. We were in there having dinner, and my wife just said, Hey, do you realize that everyone in this building right now working is either in or has been in our program? And it was that is so cool.

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Whoa!

SPEAKER_00 11:38

That is so cool, yeah. Yeah, and I think too, like, um what better way to be like, oh, I don't I can't mess up because this is the roof over my head, right? So there's some there's some encouragement there too, which I love. Um, we were stuck in the the dynamic of, oh, it's a tax break. If you hire these people, it's a tax. And I I thought that was I didn't approve. Um, but I wasn't the G, I wasn't the decision maker. Um, but you know, that's I I've we've dealt with that a lot through some family friends and family members. And I think, you know, when you have a positive environment around you, it makes all the difference in the world, you know. But that's traditionally in in these chain restaurants, that's not not where it's at. But like when you are promoting that environment, that is amazing. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

Yes. Because we my wife and I both grew up in the restaurant industry. Her family owned one for 30 years in upstate New York. And we we went through chain restaurants and same thing. I mean, there's a party every night. I mean, if there's a drug you want, someone has it in their pocket somewhere in the building. I mean, it's yeah, I I totally agree with you. Yeah, what we have is not the norm, it's very intentional and structured. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

It almost reminds me of um, you know, not to sidebar, but like the, you know, the coffee shops that they make that um allow special needs, children, like teenagers to work at it. Like that, it's almost like that, but you've taken it and created it in a model where I mean adults can refunction. And I think that's so cool. Like there's always a need for somebody to just have that extra little bit of care, like that sees the value and the worth in someone and tells them, like, you are worthy of this, and I am going to show you. And so kudos to you for that.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Well, thank you. We we love it. It's it's an it's it's amazing we get to do it.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

So that's very cool. Okay, so tell me, so up to 50 guys at a time, and you're saying up to two to four months, typically speaking, what is the average amount of time that they stay with you?

SPEAKER_01 13:30

If I have to pull an average, I I'd say about three and a half to four months. I've had people with me round in four years now.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Wow, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Yes, because we do ultimately become affordable housing as well.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

And as we know, uh coming out of addiction isn't it's it's not a one and done. I went to rehab, I'm fixed. Like it, it's normally a cycle. You know, that you come out, you do good for a while, you you run into the same, the same feelings or the same people, and boom, you're bet now you've you've relapsed, and then you're kind of starting again, and and it's almost like a ground zero each time. So it's it's it's a tough, it's a tough cycle. It's it's tough to watch people have to go through. You know, so but but that's but but I'd say the normal is about three and a half to four, and the longer the better for us. We just we just feel like I feel like the longer you can be in this program and be around this structure, just the more strength you build.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

So now I have kind of two questions off of that. So one, you're saying that you've got people that have kind of been long timers there. Do they almost become like the head of the household, like the the grandfather, like the you know, the mentor for the household, or what does that look like?

SPEAKER_01 14:36

A little bit. Um, there's two main models on how this can run. And it you you can run it where like you put people in in the house in charge, or you can run it the way that we run it. I really show people is I prefer to have an outside staff, because then then you always have somewhat of an impartial third party there because you are putting a bunch of adults together in tight quarters that come from every aspect and every every corner of the earth. And it it can be hard when when you have the wrong ego in charge in one of these homes. And also your ultimately, your ultimate goal is I want people to get themselves to where they're ready to go out and get their own place and move on. So you kind of will you're kind of creating a revolving door of leadership. And and I I just don't I don't love that revolving door of leadership unless it was my job to train leaders to go out. And so yeah, no, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

You've got like a a consistency there, like you know, that everybody can expect and you know what to expect. Um, what does that look like? So if you have an outside um staff coming in, like what is their their role? How often are they there? Like, is there stuff that you have to do as a homeowner to facilitate that part? Or does the program do that for you?

SPEAKER_01 15:49

So the the the way that it works is that like the the program is is is me. So like when you when you run these sober living homes, you you know, you can run them one of two ways. Like you can either be the investor who just has the house and then you have an operator, or you can be kind of everything. I'm the owner operator. But like I built it out pretty quickly where I'm on on day-to-day, I don't really do anything in inside the business. I I have two two staff members that are both part-time, and one does all of the operations work. So she does all of our intakes and she does all of our marketing and things like that, and then you know, runs our database and you know, just just tracks everything, keeps all of our beds full. And then we have got our guy who I call him the enforcer, but he's not really an enforcer. He's an awesome guy that goes around to all of our homes, though, and does our walkthroughs and makes sure the homes are, you know, they're staying clean and everybody's doing their chores because everybody has responsibilities in the home. Okay, very cool. And then he does do the enforcing because we do have zero tolerance, because in these types of homes, there can't be any type of relapse allowed because if there is, it just spreads like wildfire.

SPEAKER_00 16:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

So if if someone's doing something wrong or or has relapsed, we have to remove them from the home as quickly as we can. And and he helps with that.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

That's good. I know that has to, I can't imagine if I would have to be that person. So I I love that you have a buffer for that too, because like it has to be like kind of a sentimental spot for you where like you're trying so hard to do all the right things for these people and cannot control someone. You cannot make the decisions for them. Um, but man, that is tough. Whenever you're like, I I brought you in here, I want you to be here, you know, and and now now I have to get rid of you. Like, that's so nice that you kind of have a buffer in between there.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

It really is. It helps me a lot. And we do we do offer like so, depending on how people deal with that, when they deal with it in an appropriate adult manner, we always leave the door open. Here, we will hold your bed for you while you go back to rehab and and get yourself clean again, but you have to be clean coming in here. So you so we we we always give that opportunity. If they just blow the whole world up around it, then we we don't have a problem closing the door because we've got to protect everybody else.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Yeah, yeah. I love that. Okay, so if you were somebody wanting to invest in a sober living home, what is the type of property we need to be looking for? What type of location should we be looking for? Like, should it be in a city center? Should it be in a suburb? Like, what is the ideal scenario that you have seen so far?

SPEAKER_01 18:10

Uh, the ideal scenarios with these, you know, just going basic off a home, you really want to be four-bedroom plus just because the the economics of the home do still have to work. And if you start getting into the three-bedroom and two-bedroom, if you have one person missing, it can really off-balance the income on it because you are responsible for utilities and you do have a little bit more of an insurance obligation. And you know, there's there's more expenses to it than a regular residential rental, but the income can be drastically more. It's just it has to balance.

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

And then really, I uh it's it was really easy for me because I always looked for rental properties the same way I look for these. I want them around the services, I want them around everything because I always rented to mainly like entry-level uh renters. And and even when I was doing fix and flips, I was a first-time home buyer specialist. That's what I loved. Nothing made me feel better than giving a brand new couple their keys, like, oh my god, our first home. We can afford it.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Like more, but I yeah, especially in your area. Yeah, Washington is expensive nowadays or sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

So you want to be around bus lines. Um, everyone in the program has some sort of obligation going to um inpatient, you know, inpatient uh follow-ups, going to AA meetings. So you don't want to be too far away from all of that. If if you get too rural, I'd say 30% of our people actually come to us with some sort of vehicle. So we don't have a lot of people that are are instantly able to get far. So if I'm 10 miles out of town, they're not making it to meetings.

SPEAKER_00 19:40

So okay, that's really um knowledgeable and helpful. So my question would be if you are looking at this program, um, we want a big house in the city, and then what like what else do we need to consider? Like um, one of the things we talked about offline, I guess this is what I'm kind of thinking about is how is it and this is just because I don't know about the program. So I'm sorry if this is kind of an ignorant question, but is the house marked in any way? Is it indicated as a sober living home? How does this impact the community? Do you have to have any buy-in? Um, you were talking about zoning. Is there any difference in zoning because there's so many people living in the home? Explain some of that for us.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

So no to most of it. There, there's no specific markers that you have to do because it's not we're not really, we're not specifically running a business out of the home. So it's not like commercial or anything. Um, and the reality is we don't ever really get to pick our neighbors. So, but but what I do like to do when I try to teach people to do is to talk to your community right away. Like you can just pop these up in the middle of the night, and at the end of the day, there's really not much people can do other than hoot and holler and scream unless you're doing wrong, unless like you're not following the rules, if you're in an HOA and they're not pulling back the garbage cans or mowing the lawn. But like ultimately, we'll become one of your best neighbors because we do have rules, we have quiet hours. I have the ability to actually remove people, unlike when in the past, when I would bring somebody in and they wanted to party all night and smoke marijuana off the back patio and get drunk. All I could do was say, you guys can't do this, it's not in the lease, and like they just say, Okay, cool. And then the next night they're doing it. But uh, so I I always try to talk to the neighbors. You do want to talk to zoning because there are different zoning laws and rules everywhere. You know, in some places, if you put more than seven people into a home, now it enacts you have to do sprinklers in that home. So so like you you you might not be able to do more than seven in your area just just because unless you want to put sprinklers in, which can be about 15, 20k. So it it it but like but you know, neighbors are always initially going to hate this because their initial thought is gonna be you're bringing bad people, you're bringing drug addicts or alcoholics or thieves into my neighborhood. But once they understand and start to see that, hey, there might be eight guys living in this house, but They're quiet, that you never see them late at night. You know, they're they're we make them follow the rules. We keep the laws, you know, mode and things and don't let their garbage cans overflow and just just all the problems that you can have with that many people living in one area.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Right. So you just said something, and I'm gonna ask you a pretty pointed question. You just said that, you know, people are worried about the fact that there's thieves and bad guys and drug addicts and alcoholics coming into their neighborhood. Okay, when you bring these guys into their into your home, how many of them are scary bad guys? How many of them are scary bad guys versus I'm a normal guy that got myself into a bad situation and you would never know it from the outside?

SPEAKER_01 22:37

That I would say that that's the majority of people we bring in. We we do work with the Department of Corrections and we do we do bring in people that are retransitioning back in from prison. You know, we do get to choose who we work with, so we don't work with like high-level sex offenders. We don't, you know, we don't bring in, you know, that we don't bring in people that have done, you know, bad murder. And I say bad murder because it all is bad, but like we have some, you know, we have people that like I was drunk and high and I killed my girlfriend in the car because I got in a wreck and I got manslaughter. So like this is a person whose whole life is ruined, and yes, he murdered somebody, if you want to look at it that way, but he didn't do it in a malicious, violent, deranged way. It was right, you know, so so like so we do bring people, but but that they're not inherently bad people, they're just people that made a mistake that now are on the path of of recovery in in many ways. And and and with those people, they're they're highly we're high touch, so we're in our homes anywhere between five and seven days a week, making sure everything's good. And you know, it it you don't because you don't have to go and hang out at the house for six hours, it's a 10 to 15 minute walkthrough. Does everything smell good? Does everything look good? Are there any issues? You know, does it look like there was a tussle in the living room last night? Like, right. And and then then anyone who is with the Department of Corrections also has a probation officer. So if they're doing something wrong, we can take such quick immediate action. And I mean, they literally could be back in in prison the that night if if they're doing something bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Yeah, yeah, I get that. That's uh I so it's funny how many paths can cross when and this is stuff that we didn't we didn't talk about the restaurant stuff, we didn't talk about working with the Department of Corrections, but that's I worked at an animal shelter for four and a half years when I was in college, and we had um the the county jail. Like we had people that came over from the county jail, and most of them were minor drug offenses or not paying child support. And I cannot tell you how many conversations I would have with these men saying, like, but the stories are awful, to be honest. They're hard, like they're not getting to see their children, they feel like the money's not going towards their children. It's you know, and and it's like it doesn't matter what you feel, you have to do the right steps and play the game. And I, one of my guys to this day, um, we've I follow him on social media, he has both of his children now full custody. One of them's in college, he is remarried and and happy and healthy and got the beer belly going on, like living the good life because he's just settled, you know? Um, and it's so cool to see that sometimes. And it's just like, you know, but it is very hard in that demeanor is very hard to stay out of the system because you are so far behind. Like with the child support thing, what we would see is they would get frequent flyer miles because they couldn't make up the rears. Like, as soon as you get out, all the money that you were owed is still owed. Okay, I sat in a you know jail for 30, 60 days, could not work, could not have any income coming in. I get out. If I can't pay what's owed in 30 days, I'm right back in there again. It's it's a vicious cycle for some of these people that like really have no business being there. It's literally that they just wanted to like prove the point. Like, I want my kid, I don't get to see my kid. Why do I pay if I can't do X, right? So, like this is, but these are the scenarios that lead to okay, I'm hopeless, I'm helpless, and then I make a bad decision, right? And then I sat at the bar for far too many nights, and now alcohol is my numbing mechanism because I miss my kids, right? So I think we forget how easy these cycles happen. Um, and also, you know, my background is I'm uh a military spouse, my husband is still active duty, and we see this inside of active duty, and we see this a lot when people get out of the military where they need coping mechanisms. And, you know, bad things happen to good people, right? There are people that will do a 20-plus year career and they walk out of this structure and they don't know who they are anymore, and it is so easy to fall into these traps. And I wish that more people understood that there are like we all make mistakes, own it and move forward quickly, quickly, and know that there's programs like this that give you the leg up. I mean, because it's hard when you lose everything. I mean, there's so many people, the divorce rate after people get out of the military is it's high in general, but when they get out of the military and then all of a sudden life doesn't mesh anymore, it's chaos. And I I watched an article, like a podcast about that recently, where they were saying the divorce rate when people get out of the military skyrockets because life doesn't work anymore. And then I mean you lose everything in an instant. So it's so easy to fall into the spirals. So I just I would love to remind everyone that these programs are here for anybody. It's not just bad people that have been in prison. It is, you know, the guy that's sitting at next to you at the IT desk. It is, you know, like the high-paying, high stress jobs. I can't imagine how many people, you know, start by coping because this is a really stressful job and I'm making a quarter of a million dollars, and I've got the money to buy something, you know, to buy alcohol to drink a bottle of wine every night, you know, like well, and we've normalized so many of these things.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

I mean, you know, you you you get you get out and you're having problems. Well, here, take this drug. Here, take this. I mean, if we look at where our opioid epidemic really exploded from, it was that whole oxycontin thing. Well, hey, we've got a whole new non-addictive drug that we're gonna give everybody. And the doctors gave it out like candy. Here you go, here you go. And it was as addictive as heroin because it basically was. So it's just it becomes tough. And to the military one, that's that it is really tough. If you look at the average military person, they're going in at 18, 19 years old, so that they've never really had anything but high school as a structure in their life, and now they've got this fully structured life, and they don't prepare you when you get out. I mean, I remember I only did my my one contract when I was in the army, and just I remember how scared I was getting out. And I had a lot of opportunity ahead of me just because my family was ready to take me back. I had a place to go, I had a job already where like I can't imagine coming out with with no skills other than I was in the infantry. So, like, what what skills did I get other than go be a security guard or a police officer? Right, right. Like, yeah, I I had to double think it like, how am I gonna survive? And then it's like, oh wait, I'm gonna go work and I'm gonna pay my rent. And but like I get where it gets you off track, and that structure's completely gone when you leave.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

So yeah, it's yeah, it's it's a little bit scary the fact that you actually get to make your own decisions. I mean, if you think about that, like that is we are in, and you're right, there's there are so many programs when you are getting out of the military, but it's all very it's high level, it's very like you know, it's not customized to you. And they have programs where you get to do like these internships, and it's maybe 90 days max that you're allowed to have an internship, um, depending on like what rank you are. And so we're like in the process of being about a year out from retirement. So my husband is learning about all this stuff actively, but in 90 days, you're supposed to learn what civilian life looks like, how to get a job and make yourself employable. And like it doesn't all mesh. You know, there's a million things that people do in the military that should constitute the same as in the civilian world, but literally you cannot say, I have experience in this role. Because you don't. The role, I mean, it's it's very different. It's I'm, you know, like, yeah, I'm an officer. So I'm a project manager. You are, you are managing lots of people, you are managing, you know, from point A to point B, like a mission, which is a project of some sort. But if you go to a construction company, they're gonna say, You don't want to do my job. You're not a project manager, you don't know, like, so it's very hard, you know.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Um it is, it is indeed.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Yeah, so I just I think that we we've got to do a better job of isolating the pitfalls so that there's not such a huge need for these type of programs, honestly. Um, but it's awesome that they're here. So, do you know you mentioned a couple of different states that it's pretty easy to get involved in these programs? Do you have um like the preferred states or the preferred areas that typically is pretty easy to get up and going? So, like if I was an investor or I had properties, you know, and I said, okay, maybe I want to try something different, you know, what what state is?

SPEAKER_01 30:53

I'd say most most are are fairly easy. Uh Florida and uh New Jersey is pretty challenging. There, there's really only five, and I'm telling I'm I'm blanking on the other three this second. But but uh but what you know, California can be a little bit challenging as well. But uh Texas is a good one. You know, Washington's actually a a really a really good state to to open it in. There's not a lot of regulation around it, and there's a lot of funding here for this type of stuff because not every state has the same amount of funding, but every state absolutely needs this. And you were you were hitting a really valid and important point because you know people, veterans coming out, this can be something that they really need. And and like I said, it kind of is a one-two punch. It's a stable, sober living place, but it ultimately becomes affordable housing also, which which is a another whole need. But when you can have affordable housing where it's still a little structured and you're you're you're not in an affordable housing area where you're around a lot of drugs and alcohol, because a lot of times you start getting into that low, low end housing, it's it's kind of baked into that area and it becomes hard. How do I go live at this cheap place? But now I'm surrounded by drugs and alcohol.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Like so, yeah, you're absolutely right. And I think something too to remind like it is very hard. A lot of the inpatient programs or even outpatient programs, right? So thinking VA specifically, it is very hard to get help sometimes because it's so like this there's not enough of it to be had. So it's like, okay, sure, you need to go to an inpatient program. We can keep you here for 72 hours, and as long as you're safe, you've got to go, right? So, like, talk about throwing them right back into the fire. They haven't had long enough to get sober before it's like, okay, we need the space again. So, like, I wish people would realize too, like, even I mean, and I'm curious, do you have folks that stay with you that that have a home? You know, like let's say I I have a husband, I have uh, you know, kids, but I need to be separated for a little while. Can I stay in your facility and then go back to my home in, you know, four months when I for sure am clean?

SPEAKER_01 32:56

A hundred percent. We actually we actually have a guy who was with us, got got himself together, went home, and he was back with us within a week because because his spouse still is drinking and doing things. So you know, she still pops by and and and comes and visits, but like she's not she's not ready to be done. And he is, so he's actually back with us now. And it it's it that that's a really hard that one's hard. It's really hard to see that one because you know, he of course he loves his wife, he doesn't want to leave his wife, but he can't be with his wife right now, and I'm very proud of him for having the strength to recognize that because I I can't imagine how easy that would be. Oh, well, this person loves me. Cool, we'll just do this together. And like yeah, the it's the wrong way. It's you need to come together with me and stop doing it, not bring me anything to doing it.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Right, right. Meet me where I'm at. We're elevating here. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

It's absolutely a thing, though. That that is that that that's real.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

So wow, I love that. And that is, I mean, you want to talk about putting your pride aside for half a second. Like, that is amazing. The fact that he could actually see that and make that decision for himself.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

It it was powerful to see when when he left. I I have to be real, I didn't have the faith that he was gonna make it. And seeing when he called to come back, I went through the roof. I'm like, oh, I can't believe he's got this much power in him.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Yes, that is so cool. That is so cool. And I mean, right, open door policy. Like you guys obviously are very much like, we've got your back as long as you're here for us and you're here for the right reasons, like you're not going anywhere. And that is so cool.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Well, and one of the cool things too is we're we're we're not specifically faith-based because we we we have some of those programs around and sometimes they they turn people off. But what's really cool is uh, you know, my my wife always loves to give the little care packages. Oh, that's she gives out the pocket Jesuses, and yeah, I can't express to you how many times we'll be out and and someone will be will pull it out and show it to my wife. Like, look, I I still have it. This has helped me more than once. I was having a hard day and I put my hands in my pocket and I pulled out my pocket Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

That's so cool. That is so cool. I love that. And that I am curious too. Like, do you guys do try to do um just like group activities to like keep yourselves busy? Like, do you have workout systems or anything like that, or is it just literally just do your own thing, you know?

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Well, everyone has you know mandatory stuff they have to do. Um, we require them to do two two things a week. Um, and we accept church and we accept going to the gym as that. So, and then also our main guy, Barney, who runs who who's who's our our house enforcer, if you will, he actually um runs a uh like an MMA boxing program where he he lets them all come in for free and you know, kind of kind of coaches and teaches them. And it's pretty cool too because we have a local thing out of Gig Harbor. None of us run it, we're not affiliated with it, but they do like legal backyard fighting and they have a cage in boxing, and quite a few of these guys go up there and do that, and it's kind of their therapy. So they go up there and do a little fighting and go box and go beat somebody up or get beat up, and they're like, you know, all right, I can stuff, I can live another day.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

Let's go. Absolutely. That's so cool. Yeah, I think it's really neat to be able to see that this is like a multifaceted approach. You're not just like opening a door and saying, okay, here you go, figure it out. Like you are supporting them in so many different ways and making a healthier community. Like, truly, they are doing more and more is expected of them than the average person every single day.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Absolutely. So we we we love it. It's it's been it's been the most rewarding thing I've ever done. And and one of the big things I talk with when when you know, I I always talk with everybody before they kind of try to sign up for my program and learn how to do this. Yeah, is that I I need to know that they're coming from the right place because it would be it's easy to be a slumlord in this business.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

And yes, you can really you can really hurt a lot of people in this business if you do this wrong. And when you've seen these on the news, it's because they're doing it wrong. Right. Like you almost shouldn't know we're there. Like, yes, you you can tell because there's eight people that live in this house. Like you you notice that, you know, a lot of people still smoke. So, okay, there's five people that pretty regularly smoke cigarettes on the patio, but they're never allowed. You're never, you know, there, there, there's never, there should there should never be a problem. The only reason you should ever be able to walk into one of my homes and know it's a sober living home is because there's there's just more furniture in the living room and more beds in the bedrooms. And beyond that, it's just a regular, beautiful single family home that we take pride in.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

So I love that. I love that so much. Um, yeah, and I agree with you that like you really have to find people with the right, the right heart to do this, you know? And um, it's cool when something like that just happens to find you in the right time and the right, you know. I mean, it was almost a win-win, right? You obviously have a big heart and compassion and the willpower to to stick with someone in a tough season. Um, and this got you out of a tough season.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

I mean it it did indeed. It moved me beyond, beyond, beyond what I thought was going to be my biggest failure.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

So Yeah, I love that. Um, so if somebody wants to learn more about what you do, how you found this program, how you've started the program, how do we find you? How do we connect with you, Jim?

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Easiest is just Jimbo.com.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Awesome. And that'll that that kind of talks about all my the, you know, the programs and what I do. And then you can actually jump on there and sign up and get a free week of coaching in my coaching program because I teach people how to do this from start to finish and all of the pitfalls to avoid and just exactly how to open what up your own sober living home and how to scale them.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

So awesome. So and then on the scaling, like you know, you said it could be good. So, like, let's say we're taking an average um single family rental, right? Just an idea. Like, if we're only, you know, if we're breaking even or we're making, you know, 10% profit. How much better is this than that?

SPEAKER_01 38:56

This is the part I hate talking about because it's the part that makes everybody go, oh my God, I'm doing only this. Yes. Right. So I'll just give you a real world example. I one of my houses, it's a five-bedroom home. I was able to rent it just to a single family for $2,300 a month. I made about $200 a month after mortgage and all those things. Yes. I have that exact same house now, and now that house brings me in on average $8,500 a month. And my output on it is about $35.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

My mortgage and then all the utilities and all the other things.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Yeah, employees and stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

You can you can literally $10 plus X what your income was off of those homes. Now, there's, you know, there's definitely different things. It's not, it's not turnkey. You can't, this isn't passive. You're not just gonna say, hey, I'm gonna throw a bunch of people in here and they're gonna pay me forever. There's turnover on this. It it it it takes it takes nurturing. And you know, like we talked about, the hardest thing is when you do have to kick people out of this program because at some point you will. It's just gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

So yeah, yeah. I'm just kind of thinking from the aspect of um from the military realm. So there's so there is this huge love of entrepreneurship when you are in the military and getting out and having your own business. And honestly, if somebody has their right head and heart in the right place, right? Like, um, they would be an amazing option or choice to go into this because they are used to the structure. They are used to almost checking in, micromanaging, making sure everybody's held to a standard. I mean, honestly, they're kind of built for that. They are indeed. It just kind of like clicked like a light bulb where I was like, man, this is something. And and so many of them have a huge heart where they just they want to get back to the community because they see their guys fail. They see it happen so quickly and so easily. And or they've come from that. There are so many people that go into the military that if that was their option to get out, otherwise they were gonna be six feet into the ground or in jail, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:50

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

So, like, what a cool way to get back to their community and like go back and make the difference on the flip side, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:57

And one of the other things I do is I I've got Group Home Connector, which is in it because Group Home Accelerator is the name of my program that teaches you how to get these up. But I do a lot of connecting. I connect a lot of investors who have no interest in actually running these with operators because what I've found is the majority of operators that I find that come fully from that heart place aren't necessarily the the savvy investor, but they're the person that's going to do the best job running this home. So I teach them how to rent homes. I teach them how to work with investors, and I really, really work hard to connect them because it it it becomes another big win-win. We've got somebody who's who's making a little bit of a higher return on their investment, but it's actually going to something amazing. And it's somebody who might not have had a chance because maybe your credit's not the greatest. Well, that investor doesn't care about that because you're not the one specifically paying for the home. Right. And as an investor, too, there's such an advantage to this because now I'm never going to get those late night calls of, hey, the drain's clogged. That's what the operator's there to deal with. Yes. So as the operator, you're taking on all of that. But as the investor, you kind of get to sit back a little bit more. So that can be the passive part of it. If you just want to, hey, I'll buy a house for you. And almost every time I've done this and I've connected a great investor with a great operator within six to 12 months, that investor's buying multiple more homes. That's simple. That that operator is getting to run multiple more homes. So it's just it's just this machine of win.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

So I love that. I love that. That's um, I might have to make a connection to you as well. There's like, I mean, in our local area in Fayetteville, there is a veteran investment group where they're trying to help veterans learn how to invest. But you're right, there are there's pitfalls to that, right? If you don't have capital, if you don't have the credit, I mean, and you know, we move around a lot. So a lot of times we don't have the cash that we need to be able to do proper investing. Um, but we would love to be in that realm or have that structure and and are the guys that, you know, like, gosh, I had to take care of all the kids in the dorm for God knows how long. I've done this, I can do this in my sleep, you know, like they could be such a great mesh. Um, so we'll have another conversation about that another day. But anyhow, I just want to thank you so much for bringing so much um education to this. And like the fact that you're willing to say, like, I'm not gonna gatekeep, that's pretty cool. Like this, it's a very different niche, you know. And it's almost like not only are you not gatekeeping, but you also get to kind of filter, right? Like you get to impress and say, like, unless you are this quality of a person, you should not be doing this.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

I do have to tell that to a lot of people, and it's and it's okay. It never really hurts their feelings, surprisingly enough.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I mean, but right, kick rocks and move on. Like, go find the thing that's good for you. This is not it. So, and I love that. Like, I love that you could almost self-identify because then you are making a true impact on this so that people aren't on the the radio or on the news again, right? Doing the wrong thing. Like exactly little by little making a bigger impact than you ever realize in your media area by doing that.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

Good for you, Jim. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us. I will um link your website in the show notes as well so people can reach out to you and. Uh, I hope we stay in touch. This was a really cool conversation. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

It was, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 44:05

All right, have a wonderful day.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

Bye.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

Hey! I just wanted to say thank you for being here and listening in on this episode of Closing Chapters with me. I truly enjoy putting this content together, and I hope that you enjoy it too. If so, could you like, subscribe, and share this episode with somebody you know that will enjoy it just as much as you did? Thank you so much.