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Famology
Providing practical, insightful, and Biblical answers to your questions about family, marriage, and parenting.
Famology
Can’t Agree on How Many Kids to Have?
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What do you do when you and your spouse don’t agree on how many kids to have? One of you feels ready for more, the other feels maxed out—and the decision feels heavy.
In this episode, we talk about navigating differences in capacity, desire, and calling when it comes to growing your family. How do you stay unified, hear God’s heart, and find peace in the process? Let’s dive in together.
#Marriage #Parenting #Faith #Family #ChristianMarriage #Relationships
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Welcome to FAMOLogy. We're Johnny and Amy Clossen, very proud parents of eight children. We've been married 30 years this year, and we have four beautiful grandchildren. And our heart and our passion is for families to rise up to be all that they're called to be in the kingdom of God. It makes our heart sing. And so um we are going to answer another question this week on what are we answering a question on? Oh yes.
SPEAKER_02Speaking of eight children.
SPEAKER_01Having big families. But before we get to that, I just wanted to mention that um as we are beginning to grow our podcast, it would be super helpful if you guys would head over to Facebook, Instagram, and follow us there. We'll have the links down below in wherever links get put underneath these things. And then if you have any additional uh thoughts or ideas or something that the Lord's taught you about this topic, we'd also like to hear that below. You guys can just go ahead and put your comment there. Uh remember that we're just being encouraging to other people, other people who are listening, because we all are seeking the heart of the father together.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we get to share, you know, our perspective on things and what we've learned over the years as physicians and parents and you know, ministers.
SPEAKER_01I'm not a physician.
SPEAKER_02Um however, um, however, it's much more fun to get interaction from you and to really hear your heart and even your perspective on some things as well. So we would we would love to have that feedback, and that's the beauty of social media. Social media isn't always a beauty, um, but in this kind of situations, it's really, really nice to be able to connect. Uh, and that's why we're here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, our perspective is not the only perspective. Shocker.
SPEAKER_02That's true. That's true. So let's get into the question, babe. All right, right.
SPEAKER_01Um, so take it away.
SPEAKER_02So, what do you suggest we do if we can't decide how many kids to have? My husband has a greater capacity than I and thus wants more kids. It's hard to know how to make that decision. Uh, this was submitted by Alyssa from St. Paul, Minnesota.
SPEAKER_01I can't wait to hear what you're gonna say first.
SPEAKER_02Well, you kind of mentioned this is about big families, and I don't necessarily think this question is specifically about big families, it's just about having children.
SPEAKER_01Yes, period.
SPEAKER_02Now we've had a lot of children. Um, and our disclaimer is that we don't endorse that necessarily forever. We for everybody.
SPEAKER_01We we are gonna keep our kids forever for everyone.
SPEAKER_02However, um, you know, it's it's really about hearing the Lord's voice. I'm sure that's what you're gonna say as well. Um, we we are a big fan of finding unity in a decision, and and so you know, we always say in our marriage course, which we'd love to invite you to, and please go to gofam.org and find the links to our marriage course. But we mention this often that if it's not two yeses, it's a no. Yeah, and so that's I believe true for big decisions, and this is the biggest of big decisions, yeah. Um, is is when and how many and the timing and and those things when you are married. Yeah, um, and so the answer is is it time to have the next child? If it's not two yeses, it's a no. Right. And and and we wait on the Lord until there's peace both ways, because I I really believe he's a god of peace, and and he he will he will inject himself into the middle of your decisions if you let him. Yeah, and uh, and so sometimes we can dig our heels in and not listen and go la la la la la, not listening, and we make our own decisions because that's what we want. Right. Um, but if we allow him into the decision process, I believe that he will always give us both peace about the next step. Yeah, and so I that's that's my initial answer to this question.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's really good. I I have a little bit of an asterisk to that too, because I feel like our society and culture that surrounds us has overall devalued children. And there can be some overarching thoughts that we have about how we decide family size that may not be kingdom decision processing, if that makes sense. And so we do have to ask the Holy Spirit to really wash our mind that we see children as the gift of the Lord that they truly are, because the world is gonna tell us, well, you know what, you also have needs as a woman, and you it you can you can decide these things for yourself. And it's okay to need to have time to yourself. And what if I give up too much of myself in order to have children? And and so my caveat would be yes, if it's not two yeses, it's a no. But we also have to make sure that the voice of fear, the voice of fear of lack, of not having enough finances to go around, of not having enough time, of not having enough energy, we when we are thinking about the decision, we have to be very careful that that's not a voice in the decision.
SPEAKER_02I think this is gonna be one of those rare podcasts where I kind of gave a real practical answer and you gave sort of this cultural answer.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_02You said, Well, the culture, and I was like, Well, role reversal, here we go. Um, but uh, but I agree, and I I wasn't necessarily gonna go cultural, but since you opened the door, I think I should. I I agree with you 100% because culture speaks to us differently often than the kingdom speaks to us. And and and we have to always, especially gauging family, which is our favorite word, yeah, um, is is is of utmost importance to the heart of the father. We have to keep that in mind. So, yes, it's our decision as a couple how many children we're gonna have. Yes, that's true. However, we have to understand that this particular topic, unlike buying a car or what job we should have, right? Um, not that the Lord doesn't care about those things, but but family is a cultural core component of who God is.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02And so we we ought to um at the very least be connected and always asking him, what about our family and how big our family should be? And do we adopt, do we do we open up our home? Do we all these different things? We should constantly be um open to those things because it's such a key component of who he is. And I'd go even so far to say is you almost can't really go wrong to say we should have another child or we should adopt somebody, because it's so central to the kingdom heart of God that that chances are he's gonna be yes. However, with that being said, you're a couple and and you're a them. And if there isn't that peace or there is some underlying things going on, then maybe it's just a wait. Yeah. Um, so so you know, this idea be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it, uh, we we teach that it's the first great commission. Yeah, um, it's the first thing given to family um to actually change and set the culture. Yeah. So I won't go into a deep teaching on that, other than to say that it it was baked in the cake from the very beginning of time that the father wanted families to be used to propagate his culture. So since you mentioned the word culture, yeah, I thought I would go there. Yeah. Um, so uh the other thing I wanted to suggest, you have anything more to say on that. I do. Yeah, good.
SPEAKER_01I do. I mean, I have a lot of things I think I could say on this, but I one of them that I just want to get out there while we're on this topic is uh the birth control issue. And it's just I I think that sometimes and in certain realms, there's been the teaching of you just don't have any control, you know, you just let the Lord do what he's gonna do, and that's he determines your family size. And that has not been even though we do have eight children, that has not been uh our take on that. We have we just do believe, like Johnny said, that we just listen to his voice and we we say yes when he says yes. And and so allowing him to do that, and so I just want to put it out there that if you're using some form of birth control, that what we wouldn't be like, oh my goodness, that's not, you know, I don't want there to be assumptions about birth control because we used it.
SPEAKER_02I just remember I was in medical school, and uh, how many children do we have by the end of medical school? Only two, two, but then yeah, then we were heading into residency and had a few more, and you know, our family was increasing. And my dear friend Chuck, Chuck, if you're listening, hey Chuck, I remember he called me one day and he goes, John, he goes, You do understand how this works, right? I remember because he goes, he goes, You are a medical doctor, like why didn't you explain this to you? And uh, I still remember that. So, Chuck, if you're listening, you know.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I can't believe Chuck got his call out right now.
SPEAKER_02Words of wisdom by my my dear friend. So if you think that we're gonna have this podcast be sort of a sex education podcast, uh you can go to other resources for that. But but the truth of the matter is is is that yes, I believe that there is there is a a connection to the father's heart, and he will speak to you and he will give us guidance. Yeah, um, but but I think Amy's point is is super important. I just so I'm going to reiterate it. Yeah. That if there if there's this piece of fear, if there's something else making the decision, right? So this isn't our heart, this isn't, oh, my my wife has some hesitancy, therefore we're gonna wait. That's all fine. Um, but if there's that place where, like, oh, I've seen people with more than one child and it was a disaster, or you know, my I I was raised in a big family and I didn't like it.
SPEAKER_01And so all of a sudden there's these these contexts or are we only make so much money, and so you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You're you're not gonna get a lot of sympathy from us as far as finances. Finances will take care of itself. Finances do, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've got some really good hacks.
SPEAKER_02We've got some hacks if you need some hacks, some strong, we have some strong opinions that you know that finances is usually not a factor in deciding because the Lord's Lord's going to provide, yeah, which is what I want to just bring up here as well, because in the middle of this question is she says, My husband has a greater capacity than I. I just want to address that issue because because capacity always is um capacity always grows with the calling.
SPEAKER_01That's so good. Did I say that right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, capacity always grows with the calling. So calling first, yeah, listen to the voice of the father, have peace about it as a couple. The capacity will always be there. So good. And so we always try to judge the future based on our current situation. So too. Um, but things change, and and you know, how do you how do you love eight children the same? Well, the capacity increases, you know, so it's the same love for all of them. That's just what happens, and that's a beautiful thing when it happens in your own heart.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, so there's there's no greater calling.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Go ahead. So I I remember back being a mom of one and how much work that it took me to to do really anything. I uh my homemaking skills were were uh, you know, not grand. I mean, I just I was never I I didn't get married as like a homemaking woman of the world, like super organized. I I flew by the seat of my pants and we lived on a second-story house, and there was one time our laundry chute that went all the way two stories down to the basement, you couldn't drop any more clothes in it because it was full, two stories of clothing and the laundry bag below. It took 10 minutes for them all to drop when I finally got down there. So I remember those days. Yes, I I didn't have a lot of skills. And if you would have told me in those days that I would have an effective functioning home with eight children and not only that, but I homeschooled them all the way through, I would have laughed at you because I did not have the capacity. But you only have to have capacity for one child when you have two one child. And when you have your second child, the Lord expands your capacity. He's full of good ideas of what that looks like. But if you decide I'm not having five children when you have one child, because you can't imagine how you'd ever get it all accomplished, you're trying to envision a calling that you're not even of the season for. And so that's just faulty reasoning.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You, you, the Lord expands, he's faithful, he provides, he teaches you, he grows you up. I I mean, my life is a testimony to the goodness of the of God and how much he grows us up and and and actually takes us into the next piece of our calling one step at a time.
SPEAKER_02I mean, think about the fact if you have$10,000 and and you're not really great with money.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you think about, hmm, this is kind of a struggle with my$10,000. Not exactly sure how to do it. I'm not sure we have enough. And then somebody says, Well, I'm gonna give you a million dollars, and you say, No, thank you. That that feels like that's just even more than a half to manage. You know what I mean? So I think I'm just gonna stick with it.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02It doesn't make a whole lot of sense because what happens is that you slowly have the capacity to spend the million dollars. That looks like the well, I mean, you know, your capacity grows. Your capacity grows and your understanding of money grows because you you handle more money. That's just what happens. Well, it's not a whole lot different. I mean, there's just an increased capacity, and so you can never use your current situation to try to project uh just take the million dollars.
SPEAKER_01Take the money, people take the money.
SPEAKER_02So feel the call, then obedience, yeah, then the capacity and the provision. I think I think it goes in that order. And so that that's what I wrote in my notes. It goes so first the call, so good and just find a find that peace uh with each other, and then it'll be fun. The other thing I really like, and this is a real practical answer to this question, is is open-ended questions. And so in this situation, this couple can't decide. It would be a great question for Alyssa to ask her husband, why do you want more children? I think his answer might be really revealing to her. Um, because and and it might just be kind of an awe moment because the the children that they have, or I don't know their situation, um, you know, might have been just moving in him so much that he feels like that there's more. Um, and so it, you know, rather than just say yes or no on off switch, find out the heart kind of behind it a little bit. And if there's hesitation, ask that question too. Like, why are you hesitant or what are you feeling? Or yeah, or what is the Lord telling you? Open-ended questions are really nice because it helps people reveal. And if they don't kind of go, I don't know, yeah. Well, that's also revealing that maybe they haven't really sought the Lord yet because they don't really know. Um, and so you know, wait till it gets you know a little bit processed with the Lord. Yeah, and then you know it's a good time to talk to each other.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_02So let's pray about this. Yes, and we'll close up this question. Father, um, we we delight in family, it's your word, you invented it. It's a it's a powerful word. Um and Lord, we know that children are are the greatest calling and the greatest job that we'll ever have here on this earth. And so, Lord, as as families or couples are dealing with the um the question of how many and when and how often, and all the things that happen with uh the the creation of a family, Lord God. Lord, I just pray that you would just be in the center of the discussion and that it would come from your heart because we can do anything that comes from you, we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us, meaning that it comes from you. You are the source of the strength, you are the source of the call, um, and you are the source of the provision, uh, and you're the source of for the capacity to handle the vision. And so, Lord, we just uh we just ask that you your voice would be so clear to these couples as they turn their hearts towards you for this very big decision. Yeah in Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_01Amen.
SPEAKER_02Amen.
SPEAKER_01So if you have any questions or comments or anything that's on your heart uh as we finish the podcast, just let us know down below. And also don't forget to find us on Facebook, Instagram, and like and subscribe to help us grow our vision. Thanks.
SPEAKER_00If you would like to submit a question for our show for Don and Amy to answer, just go to our website at gofam.org and submit through the contact me page on our website. How you can partner with us is by finding us on social media, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, wherever you listen to your podcast, and follow us there. Like, comment, interact with us so that we can boost our engagement in the future work.