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Famology
Providing practical, insightful, and Biblical answers to your questions about family, marriage, and parenting.
Famology
Faith Over Feelings in Marriage
When a spouse says, “God doesn’t want me to be unhappy—so He must be okay with my divorce,” how do we respond? In this episode, we unpack what Scripture really says about God’s heart for marriage, the purpose of covenant love, and how to pursue healing and joy even in the hardest seasons.
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Hello everyone and welcome to Famology. We're John and Amy Clausen, and we're answering your questions about family, parenting, and marriage. And it's been so fun uh getting all the feedback from you. Uh and we really want to start this podcast with some of that feedback. Uh we did a podcast uh a few weeks ago about sexual identity. Um and the question was how do you handle the gender and sexual identity issue with your children? Uh we just received some feedback from one of our listeners that Amy will just read so that we can just respond uh to her response. Um go ahead, sweetie.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. As I was scrolling through social media a bit ago, I came across a post that instantly brought me back to your podcast message this week. It was an article about Cherry Vaughn, who was installed as the Archbishop of Wales on November 8th. It mentioned that she is the first woman and the first openly lesbian cleric to hold an archbishop role in the UK. Reading that stirred up a lot of questions in my heart. I'm trying to figure out how to hold tightly to biblical truth while still loving people the best I can, the way Jesus calls us to. It's not easy, and my heart feels tangled up and unsure at times. I realize I haven't mastered being able to honor differences in others with things such as this that just doesn't seem right. However, reading the article, she fully believes this is God's plan, and she wouldn't have been placed in this role had it not been for his will. I'm struggling to believe this.
SPEAKER_03:So this is hot off the press uh in the headlines of the things that are happening, and things that we have to deal with all the time as Christians, um, and in a world that um has um, you know, compromised themselves. And and so that's the hard part of this. I just want to be clear about this cleric and about this article, uh, because when she says that it's God's will towards the end, uh we have to believe um in the Bible and what the Bible actually says. Yeah, and so the the reality is is, and I know this is a little bit hard-hitting, um, but the reality is that she's not a Bible-believing Christian. That that's the reality. And the church that that promoted her to this position isn't a Bible-believing church. Um, and so that that is true, and that that what that's what causes the injustice in our heart as we're reading these things. Um so I think the the punchline is, in my opinion, is is that um when she tries to defend it by saying it's God's will, which is her way of saying I'm okay with it, yeah. So therefore he's okay with it. Um his will will never contradict his word.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And so we always a lot of times people will use God's will that that that somehow justifies our behavior. Um, we can do that very often with anything, yeah, um, but it will not contradict what his word actually says. And so the word could not be any clearer about homosexuality. Now, with that being said, the homosexual themselves is somebody that God really, really loves. And so therein lies the tension, doesn't it? And and and and the squirminess that this person is feeling when she reads these articles. Yes. Um, so we can absolutely reject the the uh notion um that is this is got a God-ordained move. Yeah, um, at the same token, this person, I don't know her, um, she might have a great leadership gift, and that's why she has risen in the ranks of their church. Um, but she might have a great leadership gift, but she is compromised as a leader. And so it's not wise to put somebody who's compromised in a leadership position when it contradicts the word.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:The real heart of the question, um, and you can jump in at any point, is the word honor. Yeah, and that's the hard part. How do we honor somebody who is making these decisions and making these claims? Um, now honor is is finding the identity of who they are in the eyes of the Lord. And that's a really a hard place to distinguish because their actions aren't lining up, and and and even in this regard, they're even making claims that I would say aren't true. Um, so that's very hard. Um, however, our heart towards them needs to be that place of honor, or Jesus would never have gone into the brothels in the first place. So there has to be a place where we see the heart and we see the fact and we see the fact that Jesus is the healer. Yes. And so that's the hard part. And so absolutely no, you don't have to agree with it. Honor never means agreement. Yes. It doesn't mean you can't agree with somebody that you honor, but it doesn't, they're not the same thing. Right. And so we can honor somebody and still disagree with them. Um, and and always, and my point in in this last podcast is you know, I'd be very curious um about her heart and and the things that have hurt her. You know, we all listen to this. We all sin because of pain and believing lies. Yeah, that's true. That's just the reality. That's true for everybody. It doesn't matter what the sin is, whether it's homosexuality or anger or stealing or or lies or lust or any of those things. Right. Um, and she's just no different. Yeah. That's all. She's just claiming that God has ordained it. And that's the part that makes you very squirmy. Yeah. Because that doesn't and rightfully so. And that doesn't completely line up. Um, and so you're right in that. It it doesn't line up. Um, and so that isn't something that is God's will for her. It's not, it's not his best for her. I am confident of that. It doesn't mean that I hate her, it doesn't mean that that I don't love her, it doesn't mean that God doesn't love her, and it doesn't mean it's too late for her. And so all of those things are true, and that's where honor comes in.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And I think that uh honor and agreement, not having to go hand in hand is extremely cult counter-cultural because in our culture, if you disagree with me, I have permission to hate you. And and we see that on the this year, especially on the extreme levels.
SPEAKER_03:And so you are the enemy, yes.
SPEAKER_02:And so here we are as as Christians who want to walk out what the Lord has called us to do, to be as hands and feet and do it as He would do it, all the while having to shut out the the messaging and what we see on every front. Because this honor in a place of disagreement is one of the most powerful things we can bring to the table.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So that we can love when something's not lovely to us. And and so I just I just bless every one of us that we would have an increased capacity for love. Because as our the love of the Father increases in us, we can face even you know extreme conflicts or extreme areas where we want to uh protect God. Because I think some of the squirminess of this is we want to protect the honor of God and his church. Yes, but he doesn't need us to defend him in this. We need to be people of love who rest in honor and as truth, and he's gonna be the one that does what he needs to do, and we get to be the ones that just love.
SPEAKER_03:So I think, in a way, this transitions into our question of the week this week, um, parallel in a in a certain way. And the question of the week this week is how do you counsel couples who say God doesn't want me to be unhappy, and I'm unhappy in my marriage. So is God okay with me divorcing my husband? That's the question.
SPEAKER_02:No, it doesn't so is God okay? It says, so God is okay with me divorcing my husband. They're saying I'm not happy.
SPEAKER_03:I'm framing it as a question. I don't know, that's not what they're saying, but it's the question of the week because I put a question mark at the end. Yeah, no, I hear what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02:I'm just saying, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:No, I I get I get the heart behind the question, and it's sad. There's a sadness there, of course. Um, and and so again, we're we're back to uh the similar conversation that we just had about this other um leader, yeah, is is that we are are aligning ourselves with something that actually doesn't line up with his word, yeah. And so how does God feel about divorce? Well, um Malachi 2, he says he hates it. Yeah, um, when we talk about um oh in hmm, I guess I don't have it on my notes. Um, when God was talking about, yes, I do, right here. Some Pharisees came to Jesus testing him and asking him, Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason? And he said, Have you not read that he he created them at the beginning, made them male and female, and said, For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no person is to separate. And they said, Why then did Moses command her to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away? And he said to them, Because of the hardness of your heart, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives. But from the beginning, it has this has not been the way. Um, powerful words from Jesus himself, who came along and quoted Genesis um, that the two shall become one flesh. The word is echad, which means that they are inseparable. Um, they they cannot be moved away from each other. And that was the heart of the father from the very beginning. And so her question is, can I divorce my husband for just any reason? Yeah, and he's like, No, because that's not the way it was from the very beginning. Yeah, and so um uh my response to this question is God doesn't want you unhappy, he also doesn't want you divorced. That's that's true, so there must be another option.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and I and I also will say unhappy is extremely fleeting and temporary, very true. Yeah, and we can if if we live our life based on our emotions of the day, we are going to be blown and tossed by the wind, is what James calls it. And we we can't live by how we feel. I'm I mean, uh it's very rare that I feel like cleaning the bathroom, you know. It's extremely rare that I'm going to feel like uh cleaning my oven. You know, it's just those just aren't tasks that are feeling oriented. And we we have to live our lives not based on how we feel.
SPEAKER_03:But the unfortunate part of this question is that we're comparing her marriage to cleaning the bathroom, and that's that's the sad part. And there's a sadness there, and so we don't we don't want to be um disrespectful to that. Uh clearly there's something going on here. Yeah, um, and so when I say there's another option, I think I think the option is healing, and and that's what I would uh submit to this person who's writing this question is that um, no, I don't think divorce, um, and I don't like the fact that you're unhappy. That's too bad. Um, but there's a third option, and the third option is called healing, yeah, um, where there's there can be joy found in your marriage uh and you stay together. Now, we don't know any of the circumstances of this. Uh, we don't know if there is anything from abuse or if this is just personality that don't get along very well. Uh, we don't know exactly the story behind the question. Um, but Amy and I I think are going to be in unison in saying, um, no, I don't think divorce is the first place you go when you feel unhappy. Right? Uh that's not where we go. Um, we lean towards healing, or we ask the Holy Spirit to uncover what I'm feeling, like what is the root behind the feeling, uh, what is happening, and what can I do to save our marriage? What can I do to bring healing to our marriage?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I I have heard, and I think Franj Francis Frangipan originally said this, but his quote is any area of your life that's not glistening with hope, somewhere you've believed a lie. And so this is somebody who's pretty hopeless in their marriage because unhappy being um in the same sentence with divorce, we're talking prolonged unhappiness, like a sustained condition of being unhappy. Um, and and with that comes a hopelessness attached to it.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And I feel like there are things that the Holy Spirit wants to uncover that you're believing to be true about yourself, your spouse, and your marriage. Um, that is he if he flips the tables on those things and shows you the truth in them, there'll be some freedom that's found.
SPEAKER_03:I'm just smiling because that's exactly what I wrote on my notes as well. Um, it's about believing lies and losing hope. Yeah, I mean, hope, hope is such a key piece um to the prosperity of any relationship. Yeah, and and I and I just wrote down that sometimes we have to reach beyond our feelings to actually find hope. Yeah, um that's and I'm not saying that's an easy prospect um because sometimes our feelings rule the day and they shouldn't. Um, but hope is actually found in our spirit uh and being connected to a spirit that actually brings real healing. Yeah, um, that's what the Holy Spirit does. Um, and so yeah, I believe I believe this question is all pinned on the word hope. Yeah, because it divorce is is that hopeless place that there there's just there's no other answer, there's no other way for me to feel happy, there's no other way for me to find freedom, any of those things that you are looking for in life. So the only answer is to divorce. Right. Um, well, that's that is a hopeless position. Um, and it may feel hopeless to you, but it doesn't mean that there isn't hope there. Um, there's always hope there because that's who he is.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he's masterful at hope. Yeah. I go ahead.
SPEAKER_03:No, I was just gonna say that's the only way we can really answer this question is don't lose hope. Uh lean into that and then seek seek the healing that is there for you. Um, and even though that is hard, yeah, um, it's a challenge. You have to lean into those things for the sake of your marriage.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and and uh sometimes we can uh have the narrative in our head that I could be hopeful if my husband did this, this, and this. Or I could be happy in our marriage if he would just start. I'm doing he because I'm a girl. Yeah, he would just do this, this, and this. And and we put the ownership of our happiness in the hands of our spouse. And I think when we do that, we we are um giving to something, somebody else, something that actually is for us and the Lord to steward together. And so uh, you know, the scripture is clear, like 1 Thessalonians 5, 16 through 18, and this is hard hitting. And we've been through seasons of our life where this hits you square between the eyes. Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, and everything give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you, or of Philippians 4:4. Rejoice in the Lord always. Again, I say rejoice. And the words always without ceasing, these are these are words that no matter what season of life you find yourself in, that this is the Lord's will for us. We don't have to guess. And so when we um when we choose to rejoice, that actually is a warfare activity. When we we lost our granddaughter um three three years ago, and rejoicing became a warrior activity because it was not something that could be felt at the moment. There was no feelings attached to it, there was only stark obedience to give thanks always and to rejoice always. And so I just exhort you that as you um take back the reins of your happiness and your joy, that in this season you and the Holy Spirit would partner in rejoicing, anyways, and in everything giving thanks, and to find your areas that you're going to harvest out thankfulness and really begin to see that fruit develop in your life. And that's something that is I uh ear regardless, it's not a word, regardless of your circumstances, um, will change you right here.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, you know, going back to the question, the question is how do you counsel a couple who says this? Well, my counsel to that couple would be who told you that your spouse was the source of your happiness? So good. I mean, what is the what is the source? Yeah. If if if your husband is is is the one that you set up to be the source of your happiness, then I am not surprised that you're disappointed. No, because they can never actually supply that for you. It doesn't mean that we don't have responsibilities, it doesn't mean I don't want to make your life enjoyable. Um, that's part of being a couple and being in covenant with each other. Yeah, of course that's the place. But if if that source runs out, then what happens? Divorce. Yeah. Well, that's what they're proposing. Right. Is that must that must be God's plan because he allowed it to run empty? Well, no, you just haven't tapped into the one who actually gives you that source of joy and happiness. So in which case you turn towards your spouse and everything looks different. Yeah, that's our testimony. We can we can say that's our testimony in our marriage, um, as well as it will be for you as well. Yeah, so it's a it's a beautiful thing. Um, there's yeah, there's layers of this question. Um, but hopefully that helps a little bit because divorce isn't the answer. Yeah, um, finding hope and finding the source of your joy, yeah, that's the answer.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I would say it's all about the father.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. So, father, we love you. It's all about you. You are you are the all-encompassing source, you are an unending reservoir of love and joy. Um, and so Lord, we uh we recognize as you as the answer to our problems. And so, Lord, for any of these couples that are struggling with just finding peace and joy and happy, even happiness in their marriage, Lord, you are the answer to that problem. You are the answer to all of our problems, actually. Um, but you are the ones that we have to draw to. So, Lord, I I I just release hope. Yeah, um, it's a strong, powerful word. Yeah, and for any couple that's struggling today, any couple that's even contemplating divorce, that's listening to this podcast, um, uh Lord, I just I just release that that that favor and that hope over their lives that can only come from you. So, Lord, would you encounter them? Would you and um would you bring people into their lives that help them encounter you um as they um are discipled into who you are, which is the source of love of all things.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I just see um eyes literally being taken off the spouse and turned to the father in heaven, and everything shifts when your gaze locks with his. And so I just release the pleasure of your heavenly father over you, that you would just begin to step into a fresh new relationship with him that you didn't even know he was offering. Yes, and that his love would wash over you in a way that breathes life and hope to your soul. In Jesus' name. Amen.
SPEAKER_00:If you would like to submit a question for our show for Don and Amy to answer, just go to our website at GoFam.org and submit through the contact me page on our website. How you can partner with us is by finding us on social media, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, wherever you listen to your podcast and follow us there. Like, comment, interact with us so that we can boost our engagement in the region more people.