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Famology
Providing practical, insightful, and Biblical answers to your questions about family, marriage, and parenting.
Famology
Raising a Leader Without Creating a Third Parent
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How do you encourage leadership in your oldest child without placing too much responsibility on their shoulders? In this episode, we talk about the balance between empowering a 12-year-old to lead well while still protecting their role as a child—not a third parent. We unpack practical ways to build confidence, responsibility, and character, while maintaining healthy boundaries in your family dynamic. If you’ve ever wondered how to develop leadership in your kids without overwhelming them, this conversation will give you clarity and direction.
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Hello, everyone, and welcome to Famology. We're John and Amy Clausen. We're the leaders of GoFam Ministry, but we also have this podcast called FAMology where we're answering your questions about marriage, family, parenting, all the things that we care about on our day-to-day basis. And we're so grateful for the questions that you've given us. And we've been enjoying dissecting through these, uh, really treating them with a lot of respect because we know that uh they're living they're living the life every day, you know. And so we think about church and we think about the things that we do in ministry, but we spend the most time in our homes and with our families. And so these are the questions that really get down to the nitty-gritty of of our everyday. Yeah. And so it's our it's our privilege to share our insight with this, uh, with these questions uh with you, and um are glad that you're tuning in again this week. So the question this week, honey, yep, is how do you balance this is a great question.
SPEAKER_02This is a good one.
SPEAKER_01How do you balance teaching your oldest child how to be a good leader, but not overstep his boundaries and try to be the third parent? Yeah, it's really good. It's a really, really well thought out question, and uh and certainly applies to really every family that has more than one child. Yeah, and uh and and the dynamic of that one child wanting to be the parent, right?
SPEAKER_02The classic big sister.
SPEAKER_01We've we've heard many stories, haven't we? Yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_02How about you? You were the youngest of four, so you got very parent, didn't you?
SPEAKER_01Oh, for sure. And uh yeah, I mean, and uh mostly it's funny because I would say mostly by my bigger sister, yeah, for sure. I had two older brothers than that older than her. Um and uh you mean you know they were bossy, you know what I mean? But I don't but but my sister, she felt like she knew what was best for me at all times. Yeah, love you, Annie.
SPEAKER_02She she maybe did though. Well, your sister's pretty wise.
SPEAKER_01I mean it's so funny because you know, yes, she's she's wise. Okay, I'll give her that. Um, but it's so funny because I'll people will say things to me, bossy, and I'll be like, oh, that's just like your aunt, you know. We call her Auntie Buck for other reasons. Um and they're always like, Well, thank you very much. They always take it as a compliment. And I'm like, Well, that's not exactly what I was implying because she's being bossy, you know what I mean? Um, so anyway, and Anne always feels very good about the fact that our kids think she's the best thing ever.
SPEAKER_02And whatever comes out of Auntie Buck's mouth is like, you know, like she's a good combination of really, really fun and really, really wise.
SPEAKER_01Well, she is she is all of that. I can't deny any of that, but that's not what we're talking about right now. What we're talking about is her being bossy, anyways. Love you, Annie. That's funny. I do love her, she's wonderful. But yeah, our kids, anytime I compare anybody to Ann, they're always like, well, thank you. Thank you. So that's always good. Oh, that's funny. So what do you got?
SPEAKER_02Oh, do you want me to go first? Yeah. All right. Well, my first thing was I think that we need to explain to our older kids the difference between being an encourager versus being an enforcer. And so I think that um our oldest kids, we want them to encourage the younger kids to obey mom and dad and to to do the things that they're supposed to do. But they we don't want them to feel like they need to step into the place of being the one that uh disciplines that child or the one, you know what I mean? And and that's an easy boundary to kind of cross when you kind of, you know, we've all had, I mean, the older sibling with the hands on the hips, and now you, you know, that does the perfect mimic mom voice to the younger sibling. We can all hear it, you know.
SPEAKER_01It's kind of policing, like they they've appointed themselves as the police officers to make sure that everything is equal, fair, right, you know, being administrated appropriately by the parents, you know, that kind of stuff. Yeah. They please us too. Oh, they do.
SPEAKER_02It's so funny. I just said this the other day. I'm like, you know what? You're gonna have an opportunity to be a parent someday, and you're gonna do it magnificent. Yes, but this is my opportunity, and this is the choice I make.
SPEAKER_01Because you seem to have it all figured out now. So I can't wait to see when you actually are a parent.
SPEAKER_02They'll be good at it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So anyway, so I just think there's a difference between being an encourager and enforcer. And then on the flip side of that, um, I feel like there's an important place to be had with all of siblings, and it doesn't have to do with age necessarily, but there's wisdom to be had in listening to the wise counsel of others. And whether that's a younger sibling to an older sibling or an older sibling to a younger sibling, teaching our kids to watch, walk in humility and actually listen to the wise counsel of others will keep them out of trouble. And and that's just wisdom. And so, and how that was always a repeated theme when I would be handling conflict between older said bossy kids and the younger ones that are bristling, not at what's being said, but the vessel that's communicating it. And and the attitude of bristling right there, I think needs to be addressed because just because somebody is older than you and you per see it is bossy, you need them to be able to weigh the truth and be wise and receive truth in whatever vessel it's contained in.
SPEAKER_01That's good. I have a question for you. Yes. So this is this is just purely a question. So do you think that all oldest children are leaders?
SPEAKER_02Um, I don't know if they necessarily are leaders by gifting, but they certainly are leaders by birth order.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I agree with that as well. I I think I think there's but I think there's a distinction.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Don't you agree? Yes. Um, because I I I I feel like sometimes we as parents place the leadership, you know, um, mantle on them, even though they might not have a leadership gift. Yes. And so we do I just want to distinguish that for our listeners. Yeah. That that sometimes we have people are more natural leaders than others. Yeah. And you may have four, five, six, eight kids, and and and you can recognize that some of them are leaders and some of them aren't, some are followers, and neither are are bad. Um, and the first oldest isn't always have a leadership gift. Right. Um, and yet sometimes we project that on them and say, you need to be a better leader because. Right. Um, and so um, but that doesn't mean it necessarily would come naturally to them. Right. And so I I I just want to I I want to be careful not to burden our oldest with with this this, I don't know, I guess mantle is the word or or title that they are the leader of the of the kids. Right. Um, because just because of their birth order. Um now I think there is some natural things that happen, like you just said, because there's wisdom, there's experience, there's knowledge, there's um, there's culture.
SPEAKER_02Well, there's just maturity when it's a lot of people. Maturity, all of all of those things make it the oldest is usually the most mature.
SPEAKER_01And most of the time, with few exceptions, the younger kids look up to the older kids and and so they see them as a leader, whether they are or not. Um, but we just have to be careful as parents to not project, you know, this this leadership thing on people where they might not have they might not be natural leaders, if that makes sense. Um, does that make sense? Or is that a distinction without a difference?
SPEAKER_02Well, I think I'm I hear what you're saying because you never want to like uh put our children into a a hole. Uh pigeon, is it a pigeonhole?
SPEAKER_01Pigeon hole, yep.
SPEAKER_02Um, but but I do feel like older kids, you know, if you've got a six-year-old, a four-year-old, and a two-year-old, it is going to be the six-year-old that says, Okay, time to get your shoes on, guys. We're heading out the door. You know, they're they become the ringleaders of of that wrestling just because they are the older ones. Yes. And they're the ones that's old enough to say to you, hey, run upstairs and grab your sisters, the whatever it is that I forgot, and they can help with those things, which automatically is a more of a leadership.
SPEAKER_01But I think that's a great example because there may be some older children who don't naturally see that they need to get the shoes on their kids.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Do you know what I mean? And sometimes we can come down hard on them because we're like, that's a good point. But you know, because it's like, why do you know you're the oldest? Why don't you see that we're trying to get out the door? Yes. Because they just don't. Some people aren't just always wired that way to see it. Yeah. We've we've had kids that just automatically saw it, and kids that would need to be told.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Would would you go please help put the shoes on the kids we have to? And neither of them are bad. It's just how they're wired. Yeah. And so, um, so some sometimes parents can get frustrated because the oldest doesn't necessarily have that. Yeah. Now, if you have an oldest who has a leadership gift, yeah, well, then you kind of got this alpha.
SPEAKER_02When our oldest left the home, I wasn't sure we were ever going to be able to leave the house again because he was he was definitely my right-hand man for heading out the door. That's true. Yeah. And then when he when he went off to school, I was like, oh boy. Yeah. Now what are we going to do? Now what are we going to do? And you figure it out. Yep, you do. You figure it out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I I think I think that um I I also wanted to distinguish the difference between leader and a parent. Yeah. Because I we don't ever want our kids to step into a parenting role. Now, there are times enter divorce, yeah, death of a spouse, different things where children unfortunately need to step up or or have felt the need to step up and maybe enter into some of those roles. That's too bad. Um it's not it's not ideal, and sometimes that can be a little painful. Um, but but you know, generally speaking, we we want to release our kids from ever needing to parent. Yeah, that's just not their role, and we don't want them to. And and the reality is they don't want to either, even though my sister was bossy, you know what I mean? She didn't really want to parent me. That wasn't her role, and I didn't want to be parented by her. And so we saw eye to eye. But but but isn't that the point, though? Is that we don't ever want to feel like, you know, why didn't you say something? Well, it's not really their role. Um, that's our role. Yeah, and so we have to be very proactive about assuming the parenting role so so they don't have to. Yeah. Um, and so I I think that's important. So I think there's a difference between parent and and you know, oldest child or older child, and there's a difference between leader and having a leadership gift. I just wanted to make that distinction because I think sometimes, like you said, we can pigeonhole kids, yeah, and they they carry that or they feel disappointed when they're not living up to that. Yeah, and so I I think it's kind of fun to see the different giftings we have on our kids and and implement that a little bit.
SPEAKER_02So I want to just get practical here for a second. I'm just gonna give you kind of uh a rundown of what this would look like in our house because with eight kids, this was a a continual conversation because poor Sadie, she has seven older brothers and sisters, and you know, she has she has thoughts and feelings about that. She is she is always the one to receive the you know wisdom and and and you know, just with her place in the family, it's harder for her to share hers. So she tries, she tries, you know. Um, but it's it can be challenging. And so I just I just want to reiterate this. Um, number one, older kids, yes, uh absolutely. I want my older kids to be there to encourage their younger sisters, younger brothers and sisters in godliness. They know the culture of our home and they know when our kids are acting outside of that. Um, but the heart of the correction matters. And I feel like, you know, you can you can correct somebody in love or exhort them in love to to, hey, you know what? Mom doesn't let you, you know, jump in the bathtub. You know what I mean? When you've got a four-year-old and they're jumping in the bathtub and the eight-year-old brother is there and he's like, Mom doesn't let you do that. I need you to sit down in the bathtub, please. And the younger child, if they're being wise, will listen and sit down in the bathtub. Right. At our house, if the younger child doesn't sit down, when they are lovingly corrected by a sibling and given wisdom, the older sibling needs to come and get mom so that I can come in and be do the enforcing of the boundary that's around the kids. And and so but if my older kids, you know, there's a process of this. If my older kids come to me and they're like, you know, we don't have a Josiah, we'll use Josiah. Just Josiah's not sitting in the tub and I ask him, he's not doing it. Okay, I will go take care of the tub and then I will come back and address the attitude that the older child came and talked to me about it. Because that information can be delivered in love, which is information, not like trying to get the younger child in trouble. Um, but the heart, you know, that's coming in and with that, they are just not listening to me, da la la, I don't appreciate that either as a mom. And so really dealing with those heart attitudes, the the younger child who's being rebellious slash childish that needs a mom to come alongside and help them fall into line. Uh, the older child's heart attitude really does matter. And how they deliver correction really matters. We want to make it easy for people to listen to our words. And one of the ways we do that is by doing it in love. We can say a lot of right things in the wrong way that make it very challenging for somebody to hear what we have to say. And so we don't we want to eliminate that by delivering in love. And I Micah 6, 8 is a verse that I love. It's one of my very favorites in all of scripture. And it says, He has shown you, oh man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you but to do justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God. And so helping our kids marry justice and mercy, mercy, and humility is a huge component of parenting in this regard.
SPEAKER_01I mean, so much of sibling interaction is isn't so much like I really want what's best for you. Yeah, it's that I didn't get treated this way or I didn't get away with this. Yeah, and so there's there's there's always kind of that internal injustice piece that is the motivating factor. And so to go back to the question, that's not being a good leader. That's that's not the heart behind it. And I and I love sort of the spiritual parallels so often in the our walk in the kingdom, is you know, so we're here we are in the body of Christ, and we're all siblings. Yeah, you know, so we have a father, we're all siblings, and and the way that we treat each other, you know, if we go up to somebody and say, Yeah, you didn't do this right, and you didn't, it never really goes over all that well, and it's hard to receive it, yeah. You know, because you're you're a sibling kind of going, okay, who are you to parent me, you know? And yet when we go into those places, like you know, hey, I I don't feel like this is best for you. I'm concerned about this because I love you. Yeah, um, you know, I don't I don't want you to get into trouble, I don't want you to you know to enter into this because it's not good for you. Yeah, if we if we can if we can come in that tenor of love that and it's received differently, usually, not always, um, but usually. And so the same is true when we're trying to raise our children is that what what is the goal? What is your heart motivation? Yeah, what are what are you after? Are you truly after them not getting into trouble and what's best for them? Is that really what you're after? And if it's so, then I think then they've done well, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So that was what I had on that one. Do you have anything else?
SPEAKER_01No, I think I think that's really good. Um, yeah, I just put you know, really the role of parenting is to disciple. And and so what again, I'm trying to get off of that we're trying to train perfect leaders. I yeah, I think that that'll come, and and people that do have leadership gifts should learn that and parents can help that. But I really said to disciple them to be a good person, I mean to to to have a good heart. Yeah, and when we disciple that, the leadership thing will happen. Yeah, and so that's I think that's always the goal. I always try to boil it down to the main the main point. And the main point is that you know our oldest children will be good leaders when they know how to listen to us and to obey us and to follow the boundaries that we've given them. Then the younger children will see that and they lead by example. That's always the be most the most effective way to do it. And with all that being said, I'm gonna sound like I'm contradicting myself, but the there really isn't something as powerful sometimes as a sibling mentioning something to a brother or sister about about the especially the way they've treated us. Yeah, and I've seen it before where an older sibling is like, I can't believe you just said that to dad. Like, we don't do that. Yeah, I mean I've I've heard them say that before, and it was kind of but I think that's super effective when they say it like that because they realize that they've crossed a boundary and there's something that they care about in our family, and that's a pretty powerful thing. Yeah, now we shouldn't expect that and we shouldn't have them parent that way. No, but when we shouldn't suggest that, no, but when it's spoken, it it's actually a very powerful tool, and uh, and when they've crossed a line and their sibling has have seen it and said, Yeah, no, that's just not what we do. Um, I think that's a very powerful deal.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, that's good, honey. All right, all right, I'm gonna pray a side. Okay, sounds good. All right, Lord Jesus, we are just here before you super thankful uh for our children and for the multiple opportunities that being a parent uh provides for us to come before your throne of grace. And we just know that you are all wisdom, uh, that you are a great parent, and that you love to help us navigate all the tricky ins and outs that we find every single day. And so, Lord, we just anoint each listener with that wisdom, the wisdom that only comes from heaven, that we would seek after it, that we would be pursuers of wisdom in our homes, in our marriages, in our families, with our extended family, that we would just we would just drip forth words that bring glory to you. We love you. Amen.
SPEAKER_00If you would like to submit a question for Johnny and Amy to answer on a future episode, head over to the FAMology page on our website at gofam.org or simply click the link in the caption below. And if you're enjoying the show, be sure to leave a review or a comment wherever you listen or watch. It really helps us out. Thanks for tuning in, and I'll see you next week.