Your Brain Is Lying To You! w/ Rene Rodriguez

Your Brain Is Lying To You! w/ Rene Rodriguez

Your subconscious mind is processing 11 million bits of information every second — and it's making most of your decisions before you even know it. In Episode 10, Russell and Jerry welcome one of the most powerful voices in leadership and behavioral neuroscience, Rene Rodriguez, for a conversation that will fundamentally change how you see yourself and the world around you.

Rene is a 30-year veteran of applying neuroscience to real-world leadership and influence, a bestselling author (Amplify Your Influence), and a sought-after keynote speaker who has shared stages with some of the biggest names on the planet.

Together they dig deep into the science of cognitive bias — why your brain isn't seeking truth, it's protecting your identity — and what you can do about it. From self-serving bias to confirmation bias, from the Dunning-Kruger Effect to a CIA spy's perspective trick, this episode is packed with insights you can apply immediately.

You'll walk away knowing:

• Why your past experiences are distorting your present decisions
• How to reframe traumatic memories and change their hold on you
• The step-by-step process for rewiring your subconscious identity
• Why confidence follows courage — never the other way around

As Russell puts it best: "Bias doesn't make you wrong. It makes you unaware." This episode is your first step toward awareness — and awareness is where extraordinary begins.

Guest: René Rodriguez (Amplify Your Influence)
Website: https://www.meetrene.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/learnwithrene
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@learnwithrene

🎧 Listen, learn, and start running with the cheetahs.

Jerry Freishtat
CEO of Wealth Climber | Serial Entrepreneur | Investor | Advisory for Startup Entrepreneurs | Speaker | Author | Committed to innovation, growth, and making a positive impact on the world.

Russell Anderson
Founder, President ACS Creative; Marketing & Design (30+ years of growing brands; global and local)
Serial Entrepreneur, Forever Student of Business - and Life

Buy the Book and Audiobook!
Amazon Audiobook
https://a.co/d/jbuW7Bh

Amazon Book Purchase
https://a.co/d/7Kq3MrG


Intro/Outro Music Credit
Big Thanks to Michael Fath for the use of The Emerald Isle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hva33IEU3SY&list=RDHva33IEU3SY&start_radio=1

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Don't wait for confidence. Confidence is never a precursor. Confidence is always the gift that comes after courage. And so, well, I just need more confidence. Well, you're your only way you're going to do that is through failure, is through to just being making horrible mistakes, showing a little bit of courage to do it anyways. And then life says, Hey, you did this good. Here's an ounce of confidence. And so when you're thinking about that action, you're actually rewriting, in essence, your memory, you're rewriting your identity and even, in essence, your behavior, and it's all being locked in. And so you're not changing it directly, you're subconscious. You're in essence changing identity statements, the actions that you're taking, with the things that you repeat, the attached emotions to new experiences. You're interrupting these old patterns. You're surrounding yourself around the right people, the right things. And so that would be the long answer to a detection.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

This podcast is the companion podcast to the book Run with the Cheetahs, written by Jerry Freistadt. And uh we do these conversations every couple of weeks. We're trying to help you figure out how to grow and get better and do the things that you need to do to be all you can be. The author joins me every week, and I'm going to bring him in here right now. Jerry, come on in here and say hello.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

Hey guys, how's everybody doing? Uh, got a very, very special guest coming on for today.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

I'm smiling ear to ear. I can't wait. I can't wait till this thing gets going, okay? But so, but Jerry, you we're actually going to be talking about the subconscious today. And I think most of us know that the subconscious is a pretty important thing. It runs so many of our bodily functions, et cetera. But I don't think people understand that our subconscious also affects the decisions that we're making every day. It's not just a it's not just a completely in the background. It gets in there and gets in the way of some of our rational thinking. You've got a pretty good comment on this to get us started here. Why don't you give us that?

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Well, the the reality of it is we have about in the range of around 80,000 subconscious thoughts a day. And when you have that many subconscious thoughts, that translates into essentially about 90% of your decisions are predetermined by how your subconscious mind was previously programmed. So if you're not satisfied with the decisions you're making, the direction your life's going and things that are going on, we're going to discuss today how to dig in there and make those changes in the subconscious mind.

SPEAKER_02 2:59

And Jerry, thank goodness we have some help on this today, okay? Thank goodness we have some help. We have got a very, very special guest with us, and I know we're both excited about this. We've got uh Renee Rodriguez with us. And Jerry, I'll let you talk about how you met Renee first, and then I'll give people a little background on him.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

When I wrote my book, you know, I knew that it was kind of going to lead into, you know, I'm gonna have to do some, you know, public speaking, might be on some stages, things along those lines. And uh, even though in my companies over all the years, you know, I did plenty of presentations with employees and staff, you know, getting on a stage and and giving a presentation uh in front of, you know, hundreds of people or however many at a at a business organization or whatever it might be is a whole different ball game uh than talking to your employees. So um I started a little search of um and and kind of how I covered in my book, you know, about you know the different layers of people. I was looking for the alpha lion to learn from. And I've been through enough of failures with the wrong people to know that I wanted to cut that learning curve down. So I I I go to a lot of events, I just started asking around, and and this one name just kept coming up, you know, Renee Rodriguez. You know, you guys got to check out his program, you know. It's it's incredible. And then uh the final, you know, thing that happened is I was down with Coach Michael Burt down in uh the greatness factory in uh Nashville, Tennessee, and I was talking to him about it, and he said, Jerry, Renee Rodriguez is the best at teaching, uh teaching what is in his I got his book here, Amplify Your Influence. Nice, right? Nice and I signed up for his course, of course, uh like anybody, even though I've you know been around the block a time or two, you're very nervous when you go to something like that. And I'm with 10 other people I'd never met before, and it was a life-changing experience. And I was able to take that whole weekend that we worked with Renee, and I have just steadily been able to develop to become a better presenter and speaker, and to essentially amplify my influence.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Wow, that's fantastic. Well, let me just read just a little bit of his bio here so people know what we're who we're getting ready to listen to. Uh, Rene Rodriguez is considered by many as the leading authority on leadership and influence. He's the best-selling author, he's a keynote speaker frequently, a leadership advisor and transformational speaker coach. For the last 30 years, Rene has been researching and applying behavioral neuroscience to solve some of the toughest challenges in leadership, sales, and change. As an entrepreneur and CEO of multiple companies, Renee integrates a practical business approach that inspires his audiences and take action. His audiences describe him as powerful, thought-provoking, and authentic. They say things like, you could hear a pin drop as everyone was so captivated. The result is greater influence, personal transformation, and immediate results in business and life by engaging with courage and grace. His best-selling book, Jerry, that you just held up, Amplify Your Influence, can be found on Amazon and at all major retailers. This man has spoken and keynote spoke all over the world. Today we have him with us, and I'm about as excited as a man could be. Renee, come on in here and say hello.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Well, guys, I should have you guys uh do all my intros. This is very special. I appreciate it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Well, Renee, listen, what a treat. What a treat to have you. You know, you and I have never met, but I did spend some time on your website and your socials. I've listened to a couple of the podcasts and uh just can't wait to get you in here today and start talking about this. Now, I'll say I have spent a good bit of time doing some research on today's topic, subconscious. You know, I've gone back to my grade school days when we learned about the autonomous nervous system. You know, your subconscious is dealing with your digestion and your heart rate and your blood pressure. But what I didn't really understand is that that subconscious jumps in there into your active considerations as well. And it can be a problem. It can be a problem. And that's what we're going to talk today about today. We're going to be talking about how the subconscious affects your personal bias. And uh, you know, I know you've got a lot to say about this, and we'd love to hear you get started with us.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

Well, it's, I mean, what a fun topic because it's I think we're all inherently interested in why we do what we do, why we choose certain things, why we choose political parties, why we choose certain mates, why we why some people perform better than others, why some people just seem to have an easier life, why some people have a difficult, more difficult life, why some have depression and anxiety, why the list goes on. And I we've all heard that term subconscious. When you when you get into the the science world, they don't typically use the word subconscious. They we usually things say things like other than conscious. And the but it's it's really well from a semantic standpoint, we're all really saying the same thing. And what it's saying is that there's only so much that we can pay attention to. And what we're really saying, consciousness is really where our attention resides. That's what we're conscious of. And so when we think of things that happen outside of our conscious awareness, things that are that would be, let's just say, things that um uh fall outside of our attention. Now we're starting to get into a much deeper understanding of how we actually function. And when I tell people, if you want to understand human behavior, you have to understand cognitive biases. And there's hundreds, I think it's a little, it might be over a hundred now, um, maybe approaching two hundred cognitive biases. These are the unconscious processes that really determine who we are, why we do what we do, how we decide, and so many different pieces. And so it's it's a fun topic and a and and a wide one that we can we can go deep and far.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

Well, you know, just I I picked out four. Now you say there's over a hundred, so my goodness, I've left out some good ones. But but I I've kind of picked out four basic ones that I think really could probably deserve some attention. And and one of them is self-bias. And my question on self-bias is that is is that similar to the beliefs we have about ourselves? Like, I mean, Jerry, you know, this brings to mind for me, it brings to me your cardio story of you telling yourself all your life that you couldn't do cardio. Is that what self-bias is all about, Renee?

SPEAKER_00 9:46

When you think about self-bias, usually I think we're talking about the like a self-serving bias. And it's if you think about how our brains are designed, we I used to think, and I think we're all thought that our our brains are designed, that we act in this way that we're supposed to, our brains are supposed to seek truth. And really, what our brains are more of protecting our identity and who we are. And Chase Hughes says it best. He said, So if you think about, if your brain is really designed to protect your identity, in essence, it acts like a like a defense attorney against anything attacking your identity. And now that's powerful to understand, and it gets scary when you realize, well, what identity have I chosen? Who have I decided to be? I can't have six-pack abs, I can't, I can be rich, I can't be rich, I never can find the right mate. These are all identity statements. And so self-bias, a lot of times is self-serving bias. It's that process of protecting that identity, if you will. Um, and a lot of times it does that from taking credit for wins and a lot of times blaming others for losses. And so a lot of times we say that we judge others ourselves based on our best intentions, but we judge others on their worst actions. And so there's a lot of different ways to look at this. And um, but a lot of a lot of times you can attribute that to um the function of the ego, and the ego really exists to protect us in many ways, but can also backfire.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

So self-serving uh bias is really the better term for for this.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Yeah, I think it's it's that that would be the technical term, if you will. The but the you know, we can call it all sorts of things. I think that without having to get technical, the conversation is the valid part, right? That's the that's where the value comes in, is what is what does it mean? How is it affecting our life? My world has always been, yeah, understand science and and get into neuroscience, but what what does it mean to me? And how do I use it? How do I use it in business? How do I use it in communications? How do I use it in persuasion selling, everything there? And so for me, what it means to me is that I'm oftentimes a little too too easy on myself or easy on myself and harder on others. And maybe I need to um be careful of that because it definitely will not serve me in giving me a sense of truth and a real truth that we're all looking for.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

So when I make when I make the free throw, and believe me, that would be quite a quite a feat right there for me to make a free throw. But if I make a free throw, I'm gonna take tremendous credit for it. But if I miss it, I'm gonna talk about I slipped on the floor. The floor had a slippery spot in it. Is that me protecting my ego?

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Yeah, I think a lot of times, I mean, we nobody wants to admit that they made a mistake. I mean, we don't typically like making the mistake. And then that there's factors involved in that too. Is there something to lose? Are we gonna be embarrassed? Are we gonna lose a client? Uh, are we trying to impress somebody? There's all sorts of things. But when there's, and here's the here's the key. If we have true psychological safety, meaning we are in an environment where we're not fearing a loss of anything, we're not fearing humiliation, ridicule, we can admit that we made a mistake. And that that's that because there's nothing to lose there. So really there's nothing to protect against because there's no consequence to that level of truth or that level of honesty. And so there we do have a lot of um our executive function of the brain is really there to make sense of our behavior in something that fits in line with our values, our identity, our belief systems, et cetera.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Fantastic. And I and I did not really understand that protection element or the quality of that. That's that's fantastic. So if we move on to the next one, which is experience bias. Experience bias, you know what where do we go with this? I mean, I I have what I have an example of what I think it is, but I'd love to hear from you.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

So the when we think of experience bias, uh, the there, there's a we just did a course on this, and so it's it there's different names for the same thing. One of them is called the availability heuristic. And it's so with the reason we call it availability heuristic or experience bias is because what memory is most available to me to make sense of what's happening right now. And so it's we we think of okay, our past impacts how we're gonna predict what's happening in front of me. And so I we go, okay, so we have to go to our past. Well, what if you have a thousand pieces of information that are in your past, but what's available to you is only two. And in those two are very negative things. And so you're gonna pull from those two negative experiences to try to make sense of what happened, what's going on, what is going to happen, et cetera. But there were 98 other possible outcomes. And so the bias is what's most memorable versus what's most accurate. And that's where we have to really, really be careful that just because you remember it does not necessarily mean that it's gonna be the most accurate. And so uh a lot of times traumatic events become the most memorable because obviously your your long-term uh memory is tied to your values, to traumatic, to high stress. And so when something hits your values, it's your principles, it does go into long-term memory, which means it's gonna be available to you. That's why it's very hard sometimes to let go of those highly traumatic events. And so that that experience bias or availability heuristic, if you will, will be something that that informs a lot. But here's the the crazy part is that we think that it's the most accurate. And that's where we have to really start questioning things.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Now, let me let me ask you a quick question about what something you just said there. When you have a traumatic event or something that is so, you know, embraced in and a burn pattern and a deep memory in your brain and your in your mind, and it comes to you know fruition at various times later in life and so forth. Um, you know, that old saying, Russell and I have talked about this before, you know, the old saying of forgive and forget, right? And I always say, yeah, you can forgive, but you can't forget because biologically it's there. So I just wanted to get your input on since you have that as part of you, is it that you need to overwrite it with positive things, you know, to to to to get your subconscious mind going in a different direction, or is it something that is just always going to be there and it's just a constant battle you gotta live with?

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Well, what's always there is the meaning you place to the memory. And so that's the story, the narrative that you place on it. And so you can't change the events of the past, but you can renarrate them. And so when you're thinking about reframing something, and we just did another session here about two hours ago here where we're talking about just reframing in the sense of managing stress, and you know that stress and excitement uh are this are experience the exact same way in the brain neurologically. And so when the frame that some people, the story they might put to it is that I'm so nervous. I hope I don't mess up. But the reframe would be, wow, I'm so excited. This must mean a lot to me. And my brain's my body's just preparing me to be successful. And so, same event, but the story is what creates the trauma. The story is what creates the meaning behind it, which then drives the reality, our experience of reality, if you will. And so the the big purpose of memory is to derive a lesson to better protect us for the future. And if we have not, and really, in essence, derive meaning. If we have not derived any meaning, that memory will persist over and over and over again. And so a lot of times we help people just let's just what what was the reasoning for that? What what can you derive from it? You can't you can't change it. There's no value in deriving negative meaning, but what might be the beautiful thing that came out of this death or this event that happened? Well, it taught me X, Y, and Z and it made me a better father. Well, I never had a father, so now I'm actually a good father because I know what it's like not to have one, those types of things. And so that's where we get into the understanding and driving the meaning behind things, which will then help us have a different experience of it, if you will. And so I wouldn't say the memory is the bad thing, it's the the what it triggers within you and the meaning that you associate to it.

SPEAKER_02 17:44

Wow. So, Jerry, uh so Jerry, I if just to say what I just heard, if we take those negative events and retell the story or or or the narrative as to what did it really mean, and and maybe change it good and bad. You know, I mean, I I'll tell you what, I had an experience, I'll just because this is the example I was going to give. And Jerry, you may know something about this. I had a terrible business partner experience in the 80s. It was so bad, it would not only was it financially bad, it was traumatic to use Renee's term. It was traumatic, it was awful. It was a life-ruining sort of a thing. And so I made myself a promise. I made myself a promise that I have carried with me forever. I said, I will never do another partnership in business. I'll never do another one. Okay. Now I gotta tell you something, and Jerry, you may know this. That has probably cost me millions of dollars. Because I've had some amazing opportunities to do business to people. And I've just flat out said, no, I'm gonna do that. So I mean, there is a terrible experience that I've carried with me and and probably need to change the story a little bit, change the change that meaning a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Yeah. Wow. And it's it it is one of those things that our past does inform our current, and it's there for a very important reason because you know, if you remember you turn left and then take a right and there's a there's a dark area, but there's a cliff there and you fell there one time, well, you're gonna remember that. And that's actually a survival mechanism. And so it serves a its intent is to be a good purpose. But when you're in business and you realize, well, we've tried that strategy before, it didn't work. Well, there's a lot of different variables on every kind of strategy. You know, if you're thinking about, you know, uh in relationships, when my last partner used to do X, Y, and Z. And when someone gets stressed, they're probably gonna do the same thing. Or even in leadership, well, we've always done it this way, right? And that's what we remember. There's so many different things, but at the end of the day, all of those require change. And your whole body, your everything about you is designed to really resist change again. And that's what, and and for the purposes of protection. At the end of the day, we're trying to protect ourselves, which is why psychological safety is so critical.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

I mean, I'm gonna go backwards just for a moment. So this is science, this is a defense mechanism.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Well, defense and protection in some ways are different, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

Like if I'm defensive, it's because I don't want to admit something because it's gonna I'm gonna risk something. And so I'm gonna protect my whether some people say their inner child, their ego, whatever it is they're trying to protect, maybe they protect our reputation, which at the end of the day, defense mechanism, protection, they're very similar in in how they function. But I think people think, well, you're being defensive. And then you're in there, it's like they attack the fact that they're being defensive versus saying, I wonder where they feel threatened. And when you can have the emotional intelligence enough to not react to the defensiveness and to say, okay, where do they feel threatened? That starts a completely different conversation. Now, the hard part is you can't say, Well, where do you feel threatened? Yeah, it's defensive to say, I don't feel threatened.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

No, I was gonna say further admission of that. And so instead saying, you know, saying there's questions that you can do to create safety and to create a sense of comfort so the person can have a much more honest conversation. But you have to think context, history. Has there been a history of lack of trust? Are you dealing with factors that are way beyond your control? What can you affect? And, you know, sometimes I say uh, you know, sometimes I'll say something along the lines of, well, obviously something I have done has offended you and it was not my intention. So I'm gonna say, I'm sorry. I would love to know what is it that I've done here that has caused this reaction. And so you get a the de-escalation of that nervous system to be able to feel safe enough to do that. And a lot of times it's um but again, it's a slippery slope because the other person has to be willing to play too.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Yeah. Yeah. I would say that's a tough combination actually.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

The real strategy is to preempt it before it happens. And so we we we talk a lot about predict, preempt, prevent the three Ps. If I can predict that they might get defensive or protective around something like this, or I can predict that this might be a threat, what can I do to preempt that in order to prevent it? And so if and this happens on in so many different areas. If I'm I'm speaking at an event and uh it's an event of maybe another coach or another speaker or somebody else like me, and they're trying to sell a product and they're deciding of whether I'm going to be on stage, I said, well, here, let me tell you something. Before we even get started, one, I understand the cost and the stress and the investment it takes to put on an event. And the worst thing anybody can do is come on your stage and sell their products or services to your clients. And so I want to let you know that I understand that. There will be no pitches, no ways to get a hold of me. In fact, all the things that they want from me, my PowerPoints, they're gonna have to go through you because this is your event. And so just wanted to let you know that I do understand that dynamic. And people, and I can't say how many people have been like, you know what, Renee? You're one of the first people to actually get that. Thank you. I appreciate that. And that has gotten me, just that understanding has gotten me on the number one business stage in the country with the biggest speakers on the planet, from David Goggins to the Shark Tank folks to Gary V, you name it, they're all on the same stage. And it was my ability. Obviously, I was I had to be a good enough speaker, but my ability to understand my role created safety for them, knowing that they didn't have to deal with another coach trying to pitch their products to their audience.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

I love that. I mean, I just love that. That's fantastic. Wow. Hey, let's move on to uh here's a touchy one. Let's move on to people bias. People bias. You know, is that is that the same as profiling or prejudging?

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Yeah, it's there's there's when I when I think about these things, I think you're talking about uh fundamental attribution error, um, which would be in essence the very similar to what we talked about, where we're attributing judgment to people's character based on what we know about them. And so it's very similar to your experience bias. And I think they're kind of, you know, they're late, they must be irresponsible to I'm late, yeah, but you know, I was in terrible traffic. And, you know, so we we we uh we make errors in the fundamental attribution for reason of certain behaviors, and we're kinder to ourselves than we are to others in that in a form of protection of ourselves. So I'd say both of those are very, very similar. And again, um just different applications of how they function.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

So we're not really talking about prejudging people here by their appearance.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

I mean, yeah, I mean, I think that the there's all sorts of things that go that people who dress that way must be this way. Right. It's whatever visual, whatever cue, whether it's auditory, experiential, whether it's visual, people with tattoos must be this, people that are bald must be awesome, whatever it is. It's there's a there's a fundamental attribution error that can happen there. And but again, the reason we have it is to protect ourselves. And last time I saw somebody dressed in that uniform, they took my family and they shot my children, right? So that uniform immediately will trigger this. Last time I saw somebody who was of this skin color, they did this and they did that. The next time I saw a woman doing this, they were this way. Next time I saw somebody who was white and wore a cowboy hat, they must have done this. I mean, there's so many things that can trigger these responses. And uh again, it's the purpose of it is very well intended. But in a modern world, it's uh it's something we have to be really careful with because I can't tell you how many times I was wrong. I'll give you an example. I was at a uh I was doing a training, we've had over 250,000 people go through our trainings, and I'm talking about small groups at a time live. And I had somebody come in, he was being a big white beard, he had this big dude, probably six foot four, shirt with a Confederate flag as big as you could possibly screen print onto a shirt. On the back, it said smart ass white boy. Now, immediately I went back to my past. I've got a guitar back over here that was my mother's, who was a former nun and used to use music to try to empower uh poor communities, to try to empower migrant labor to get out into a better life. And the KKK at the time didn't like that, so they would harass my mother. I was a kid when they were doing this, so I was around. They even broke into her car, stabbed her guitar 18 times, um, and filled it with water. And so when I see anything that remotely resembles racism, I immediately go back to they must be a certain way. Well, by the by about five, six hours into our session, this guy was probably one of the most loving, kind, embracing every single person from race, gender, skin color, you name it, in the room. And everybody loved him. And I was thinking to myself, I'm like, wow, like I was convinced this person was a certain way. And it must just be that maybe he doesn't understand what that symbolism means to certain people. And there's always a story, whether I like it or not, whether I want to believe it or not, there's always a story. And I think that it is lazy for us to make judgments before we hear the story. Light travels faster than sound, so judgments is judgment is much easier than truly understanding somebody and who they are. And so uh we have to be really careful of how this one works.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Yeah, I mean, I also think let me just jump in here real quick. I mean, I also think that on this particular topic, this this bias thing has gotten a lot worse in modern day, you know, because of social media where you know people are just portrayed a certain way and opinions are are you know developed in advance. And um, you know, so Renee, would you would you just you know elaborate or agree that you know we're social animals and and if we can you know interact a little bit more, I think you could end up with a lot less, you know, of this bias that's becoming a bigger part of a problem in society.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

We won't do away with the biases, but what's happening, in my opinion, is that people are becoming much more aware that they exist and how to manipulate them. And it used to be propaganda was subtle. It used to be that you know, it was subtle, but you knew it was happening. It's a pamphlet, it's a flyer, it's a movie, and it's like, oh, you could identify propaganda. But we're in a post-propaganda condition right now where it's not a single place that you can pinpoint it because it permeates every single piece of media, communication, leaders, uh, people that we're supposed to trust. It's happening everywhere. So, you know, you look at how many lies have been told to us by the media, by the government, and you know, without trying to trigger any of that, it's just it's not even my opinion that they've been lying. It's now come out. They've been lying. And they're and they do it to protect us. And they're lying right now about the Epstein file, saying if we arrest them, you know, societies we know it was going to collapse. And it's like, it's like right in our face. And so the abuse of those things got to be so blatant, which is why we don't trust the media. We say it, we know it, we can't pinpoint exactly why. But now we know why. But yet it still happens. That's how powerful it is. It's like I study these biases not because I'm immune to them, I study these because I am just as immune as every anyone else. And it takes vigor and effort and good people around you and and intentionality to pull yourself out of this driving force of how we are wired. And so understanding them, and I tell people the the the the Stanley Kubrick is a great quote that that really illustrates this point. This says our ability to talk about a subject matter can create the consoling illusion that we've mastered it, and which kind of leads you into the Dunning-Kruger effect, which is another bias. And if you're I don't know if you if that was on your list, but the Dunning Kruger effect, are you guys familiar with that?

SPEAKER_02 29:57

I've heard that term, and I think uh I've heard the term.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Yep. So if you think, if you think about on an axis, xy axis, and on the bottom would be your knowledge, how much knowledge the further to the right, the more knowledge you have. But then on the x-axis going up would be your your confidence. And what happens is it's very weird. It's the lower, the least lesson you know, the higher the confidence. And what happens when you first learn something, your confidence is really, really high. And then you begin to learn more, and that confidence dips really fast into what they call the valley of despair. When the more you learn, the more you realize, oh my God, I really don't know anything about this. That's right. And then you keep learning and it starts to turn back up and you keep learning. It goes up about halfway, though. It never goes up past halfway and it levels off there. And what it shows is that true wisdom leaves room for other options. Certainty is a sure sign of somebody not knowing much about a subject matter. And this is what I tell my kids, what I tell my clients. I said, if somebody is certain, it's one of my first indications that they don't really know what they're talking about. And oh, it's always this way. I'm like, okay, well, okay. I've been doing this a long time too, and I've seen it happen many ways. And I think normally and most likely it's here, but there might be something I'm missing. And you know this. Think about the person who says, you know, when they're talking about something, I said, Well, you know, here's what I've learned, and this is only my opinion because I know there's other ways to look at this, but they then they begin, they go into that. What they're doing is they're creating space for others to play in that conversation, and versus the person who said, Well, this is exactly how it is. Nope, they're always this way. You just, and and it's it's it's an indication that they're falling into one of those biases where they're early on, and you you let's say you've been, uh, for example, somebody, let's say you've been in a meditation since you were a kid and you've been doing it so long you don't talk about it anymore. And somebody in their 50s just finally got introduced to meditation and they're like, We've just had this mind-blowing experience, and now they're telling everybody about meditation is everything. And now I'm cold plunging. How long have you been cold plunging? Oh, like two weeks, man. This is like, it's amazing. It does this for your body, it does that. And what have you learned about what it does to the heart and how many heart attacks it's caused? Because when you really get into it, you realize that for some people it is phenomenal. For other people, it's a death sentence. Well, that happens through time and learning, right? And so there's all sorts of things that happen when we don't have the self-awareness to realize that maybe we're new to something, et cetera. But again, another one of those cognitive biases that creeps into control how we think.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

But you know how you answered Jerry's question if you go back about five minutes ago, you said we're not gonna get rid of our biases. And boy, that is we that's important. I mean, in other words, that subconscious, if that's the right term, or unconscious or non-conscious, or that that stuff is there and it's gonna affect. I mean, it's there.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

I mean, but Russell, I think that like again, we always try to give our listeners specific things and actions, right, that they can do. And what Renee just talked about, that that rigid, confident, I'm a hundred percent right about a subject or or or theory or whatever it might be. That was that was that I was that guy the first half of my life.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Really?

SPEAKER_01 33:24

And right, and and I'm gonna clean up. Yeah, yeah. What what what I tell you I tell you what? Yeah, what what changed it for me is I learned to question everything. That that that's that's the first thing that that I learned to do. And um, and and that that enabled that enabled me to at least listen to somebody I may adamantly disagree with. And by the way, there's a lot to learn, there's a lot to learn from people that you don't agree with. And maybe it's what you learn, and it could be what you learn not not to do, not necessarily what you want to know, right? So, um, but you know, I you know, uh I don't think it retains a you know, opinion on that. You know, if you if you question things um that you don't know about, and uh you know, this also gets back to you, Russell, the whole thing about living a fact-based logical life versus an emotional opinion-based life, right? If you live a fact-based logical life, you're always questioning everything, even things and and and and all of us, all of us can go back. There's probably a 50 or 100 times where you were a hundred percent sure you were right about something and you found out, oh my God, I had it wrong, right? And that that that humbles you as you get older, and that gives you the ability to listen and ask. And that that that that's what's worked for me. And I think if people can at least start questioning views and opinions and and and things that you know you can you can learn on a consistent basis. Um, and it is true, my confidence level is is probably not what it was before. Yes, but my my contentment knowledge is way better.

SPEAKER_02 35:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Well, I think you're you're you have a different goal now. You want truth more than more than to be right. And that's the the that seeking of truth is different. And you have to remember the reason I said that it won't go away because cognitive biases are the shortcut to understand life. We have to have them because you're we're taking in quite literally 11 million bits of information per second. That's 11 million, 11 million, 11 million, 11 million. And you cannot navigate 11 million bits of information. Your body can only process 30, 40 to 50 of them. And within that, we can only remember about seven to nine. And so to get to navigate all that stuff, your body's got to make some assumptions along the way. And this is why we talk about in that narrative gap. When when we when we have a gap in our understanding, your brain is gonna fill it in through cognitive bias, through past experience, confirmation bias, negativity bias, Dunning Krueger, you name it, it's gonna fill it in to make a seamless experience of reality. And so when we start realizing and why we question our own reality is because we got to question the story in which that we are telling ourselves. That is the quickest way to figure out what reality are you creating? Well, what story am I telling? And that means what explanation am I giving to this? And then I start going, well, where did that come from? And you breadcrumb your way back. Well, it came from I used to go through this one time. Well, how many times have you done that? Once or twice? Wonderful. Do you think there might be other uh things out there that are bigger than just once or twice? And then once you just know that, you can say, Well, this is what I'm assuming is right now, but I'm open to other ideas. I would love to hear something else. I've studied this pretty heavily, but I've also known that I know this enough to know that I could be wrong about some of these things. So talk to me. And now this collaborative experience comes in. And, you know, uh Andrew Bustamante, who's a former CIA spy, says that his number one CIA trick is to move away from pers to move away from perception and into perspective. Because if everyone operates out of their perception, the only perception that I can operate from is my own. And if I know that there are multiple perceptions in the world or other perspectives, then there is no tactical advantage to operating from my perception. I have to move into perspective and understand the other perspectives, even if they're against what I believe, think, and identify with. And so now I've got a tactical advantage because I know how everybody else in this is thinking, and I have a better view of the problem, situation, opportunity, et cetera, so that I can better make better decisions to get better outcomes. And so those biases kind of pull us in, and our bodies always pull us into our own perception, our own view of the world. So we have to fight not only biologically, but neurologically to get out of that function to be able to get a better view of what's happening in the planet, the world, my reality, whatever you want to call it.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Whoa, tough stuff. You know, I think where we, I think some of what you just covered actually touches on and hits the fourth bias that I was going to talk about, which is confirmation bias. And, you know, it's it's this is one, I just can't stand this. It's when people are just seeking information that supports what they already believe, not being open to new perspective. What a great word that was.

SPEAKER_01 38:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:29

And we see this all the time.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Yeah, that that's why seeking when people go to seek advice, they they're seeking what they want to hear, not what they need to hear. And they're generally going to ask somebody who they, you know, that trusts them and there's a back and forth. It's almost like a friend or a family member or something like that. And and generally, those are the worst people to seek advice from because they're all in protection mode, right? They don't want to see anything bad happen to you. So, you know, you gotta, you know, got to escape that, you know, and understand that you know, getting seeking advice on a topic or an issue, um, just because somebody has experience in one area certainly doesn't mean they're an expert in another area.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

So I think that that that that's something that uh well you just said was the fundamental of the fundamental attribution error. Just because they're they're expert in one does not mean they're an expert in another. See how these all things they overlap, which is what makes it fun. You know, if you think about the the confirmation bias, and it's like our brains are pattern-seeking, pattern recognition machines. And the the scary part about confirmation bias is when we feel self-righteous in it. Um, I get an argument about politics with somebody about it. So-and-so is a bad person. They go, really? Are you sure? And I start going to Google to find all the negative things about this person. And then I find some things that might be good and what they did, and I just say, that's not what you're exactly. You see what I'm talking about? This guy is. Exactly. And but I also, but I'm driven by this self-righteous, um, probably would be called uh some exotic principles-based exoneration, if you will, of I feel exonerated from this based on my principles of truth and justice. And I'm gonna ignore all these other things that are happening so that I can prove myself right. Now, you might be right, or you might have fallen into all sorts of other things that are happening. And so, like, what the really the true solution here is to be forever curious and open. And there's a, you know, and I think the solutions to these things are found in philosophy, which is wild. There's a book that I have over on the shelf, it's uh an autobiography of a yogi. I read it at 18, and in there the one of the first stories it shared was that it said that the student was trying to confuse the master with asking tough philosophical questions. And the master quietly responded by saying, My my child, the truth is afraid of no questions. And it's like, man, oh, that's great. If I truly am a seeker of truth, then I should be not scared of any question. And if I'm scared of a question, then I must not be seeking truth. I must be seeking confirmation. And go if you apply that same principle to the media or to politics, if success requires a suppression of some information, Chase Hughes would call that a psy-op. And he's the all he's the expert in that arena. And so if I'm and so maybe there's a psyop that I'm doing on myself. We engage in psy-ops on the people around us, making sure that they believe what we believe because we what we believe is right, what we believe is the best thing for the world. And so now there's a moral, um, moral frame that we're trying to put on this and moral justification to our psychological manipulation of those around us, instead of just letting truth happen. And as I say this, I can think of 30 times that I've done this. And I'm going, man, am I doing a psyop here? I mean, it's like it is one of those things that you have to constantly question yourself. You have to constantly reflect, you have to engage in honest contemplation to sit in front of a mirror and look. Am I doing the right thing? Am I a good person? Was I good today? No different than I think somebody asked themselves every night after they supposedly created this earth. Was it good? Did I do good? Contemplation. One of the highest forms of prayer there is. And if he did good, he slept well. And I think if we can ask that of ourselves, did I do good today? Was I good? Then maybe we'll sleep a little bit better.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

Yep. So if someone is just waking up to all of this new information about how important I love your cognitive biases word. I love that phrase, how important all of that is and how it affects us. I think you just gave us the answers as to what you're supposed to do with it. But if you could repeat just a couple of here, I'm waking up like me. I'm waking up to this right now. I'm hearing you and understanding how it's affecting everything I'm doing. How do I get what do I what do I do tomorrow?

SPEAKER_01 43:25

Yeah, there's a general lack of awareness that people have. So if you if you're you know watching this podcast and you're you're learning and hearing this for the first time, this is the perfect example. Be open to listening and and and the advice and the information that you're getting because most of the people that are biased in however, you know, in 30, 40 years of how you were raised, your environment, everything that you were around, you know, it's hard, very hard to go, wait a second. Maybe this isn't, you know, the life for me, or maybe this isn't, you know, the the path that I'm I've I was supposed to go down. So, you know, I I just think that most people in in in a lot of the discussions I've had and people I've met um and tried to help um there there's it starts with awareness. They're not even aware of of of their biases or that they even have biases. So that's Jerry listen to listen to this.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

I mean that's so perfect. Here's the note I made here's the note I made for the end of this I said bias doesn't make you wrong it makes you unaware and awareness is where where real performance begins. So this you're right it's where it's our old friend self-awareness. It's our old friend self-awareness.

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Well you can't get away from it can you my goodness uh jerry do you have any questions is that right the number one skill in leadership wow all right uh I have not read it but it'll be on it'll be in my hands tomorrow my goodness yeah Jerry do you have any questions for this is uh first off thank you sir thank you so very much amazing amazing stuff Jerry do you have any questions for Renee um I I think we've pretty much covered you know most of most of the uh the topics of you know the the whole awareness bias thing um you know the only thing I would say is is um or my only question my last question is is that you know how how does somebody go about changing their subconscious thoughts you know how what's the process I know I know it's a major battle it's it's stuff that's been programmed in there for year after year after year and you know my my view of it is is that the only way you could change things is through regimented actions that reprogram you know the information.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

But I'd love to hear from you you know the the scientific side of that you know it's a it's a it's a deep question when you think about how do I change my subconscious you're really trying to change nervous system responses and automatic beliefs emotional associations to identity based patterns even habits that tend to just loop over and over and over again. And so it's we think of the subconscious as sort of this mystical mystical thing, but it really just runs on what's most familiar if that makes sense. And so you you you you don't fight it per se in my sense. I think you just you want to like in essence change um really replace the old patterns and so the first look is to really say how do I identify what is what what what how do I identify myself am I somebody who is a hard worker am I somebody who is loyal am I somebody you know I'm bad with money I'm not confident I'm not creative well those are all identity statements and when you say those identity statements and when you say who am I well pay attention to what you say right pay attention to what you say and always listen to what people repeat because what people repeat are things that they value and also things that they identify with and those identities they will spend their life protecting them and you can and when you get into manipulation you get into what's called weaponizing the cognitive dissonance meaning you can weaponize them against them. If somebody if somebody believes that they're honest and they repeat that and if I needed to crawl under their skin I would just say you know what you're I can't believe you lied to me. You weren't honest with me about this. And there they would immediately turn on and it's you know it's also called emotional blackmail. I'm I'm blackmailing you emotionally and and controlling you that way. And so the purpose of even affirmations done in a um action based format is very powerful because you start saying these things out loud. And so a lot of times it's hard to really control what we say. So if I'm a bad leader I'd say I'm learning to lead you know I I'm not good with money. Well I'm I'm becoming financially disciplined and so um I don't speak real clearly versus you know I've really I've come to learn how to speak more clearly over the last few months. And so if you think about the identity in motion identity in words and thoughts it's it's powerful. And so then of course then you have to engage in repetition of that emotion. So when you repeat emotion repeat the identity it's in essence re repetition and emotion equals installation is another way of thinking about it. Love it. So you're trying to install a new operating system and so uh to me I think writing down your identity statement is going to be a powerful thing and then attaching that emotion to that identity statement. And once you've written it down you've attached the emotion how do you visualize what it looks like what do you visualize life if you don't do it? Because you got to have that that stick you know the carrot and the stick are both motivators. But what does life look like and be vivid about what it looks like the failure and the things that you believe. Jim Rowan was great and said, you know, what if you bought off on the wrong plan and what if you engage in that plan for two to three five years what would your life look like and I'm like oh my God I I don't even want to know what my life would look like. And so you when you look at that you say okay well what does it look like how do I write it down and then how do I start living it on a daily basis? And so then you got to go in through the third piece I might even say would be how do you interrupt the old patterns when they're gonna creep up on you because there are a lot of them are subconscious, unconscious how do you have people around you that do that you know oh this never works for me. And then somebody says hold on a second you know the you might want to ask yourself well is this objectively true what do I what do I categorically know to be true at the moment? Right? And that is a thing you can use with the media you can do everything. And then what I know to be true, what else could be true is another way of thinking that next question and what would the person I'm becoming think about what I just said and so Joe Rogan had a great example. He said pretend that you are in a major motion picture of the biggest comeback in history and you are the main character. You've been through hell what's your next move and it's like oh man what would that character do? And you think of yourself outside of yourself and it's easier not to get wrapped up well they would do this I said well they'll go do that. That's that thing that you do. And I think the fourth one is the one that um really was drilled into me by uh a good client friend his name is Nico Vance and he he's really a masterful of mastering and really designing your unconscious mind and it's about upgrading your environment and really managing your your visual environment. He went through I go what when he did this I go what do you mean by that? And he looked around he goes you want my honest opinion I said yeah he goes there's nothing around your office that reminds you of your goals there's nothing that reminds you I see camera equipment, lighting, studios, books, but nothing that reminds you of your goals. I'm like whoa okay that's really a big one. And so really taking a look at your environment but then also going past that and say okay who do you spend your time with? What are you consuming on social media? I mean take an honest in input on social media because I promise you when you look at your screen time and then you look at your watch history and look at the garbage that you may have been watching that is programming your subconscious that is helping you identify and create and triggering your reticularly activating system which is at charge of your attention and focus on what to look for familiarity patterns everything like that. So if you're hearing reading about aliens all the time you're gonna see alien stuff everywhere and then you're gonna start thinking about that. What conversations are dominating your day and then what in essence what evidence is your brain consuming and absorbing on a daily basis? And so you got to surround yourself if you want new new thinking got to surround yourself new people new information new things like that. And then I might even say act before you feel ready. Don't wait for confidence. Confidence is never a precursor confidence is always the gift that comes after courage. And so well I just need more confidence. Well you're your only way you're gonna do that is through failure is through to just being making horrible mistakes and showing a little bit of courage to do it anyways and then life says hey you did this good. Here's an ounce of confidence and so when you're thinking about that action you're actually rewrite rewriting in essence your memory your your um you're rewriting your identity and even in essence your behavior and it's all being locked in. And so you're not changing it directly your subconscious you're in essence changing identity statements the actions that you're taking with the things that you repeat the attached emotions and new experiences you're interrupting these old patterns you're surrounding yourself around the right people the right things and so that would be the long answer to a deep question.

SPEAKER_02 52:45

Unbelievable stuff. Oh my goodness unbelievable ladies and gentlemen any of you listening to this today I know you will have gotten a lot out of this this is a fantastic presentation by a brilliant individual Renee we thank you so very much from the bottom of our hearts for what you've brought to us today. It's just been fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

Really appreciated thank you guys it's been an honor to be here what great questions too I think we're gonna I think we're gonna yeah go ahead Jerry I was just saying that you know at as all of our listeners know you know we don't endorse anything of we there's no financial component to our podcast or anything else and uh but due to my personal experience with Renee and and and how just absolutely amazing the program was I just would like Renee to you know just how how can people get a hold of you? Just let let them know that uh you know if someone wants to change their life in a positive direction I can't think of anybody that uh look at you is is is better.

SPEAKER_02 53:47

Look at you I love it. I'm gonna put all your socials in the show notes I'm gonna put links to your website I'll I'll I'll take care of you real good in the show notes for people uh because it's just been a it's been a fantastic experience. I'm very very grateful for your participation. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

Well you guys you guys asked some great questions and it was fun it was fun to dig dig a little deeper on this one so it was good.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

Really appreciate it and please please say thank you to your assistant Jenny too she was wonderful to work with and setting all this up she was very very very helpful. So Jerry you got any last words for us today Jerry?

SPEAKER_01 54:19

No we are good to go great session thanks guys gonna get a get a lot going to get a lot of follow up on this one.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

Renee thank you very much here.

SPEAKER_02 54:29

Okay real good we'll talk to you jerry talk to you soon goodbye everybody thank you so much