Learning Who the F*ck You Are with Vince Sison

Vince Sison spent 13 years at Meta building teams, leading inclusion initiatives, and climbing the corporate ladder only to realize success was costing him something deeper.

In this vulnerable conversation, Vince and Melanie explore reinvention, fear, imposter syndrome, cocooning, identity, and the courage it takes to leave behind the life that once defined you.

Together, they unpack:

• The hidden grief of outgrowing your old identity
• Why comfort can quietly become self-abandonment
• The masks high achievers wear to survive
• What it means to truly come home to yourself
• How fear may actually be pointing you toward your next chapter

This episode is for anyone standing at the edge of change and wondering if they’re brave enough to begin again.

For more information about Vince and Limitless Arc: https://limitlessarc.info/

If this conversation resonated, please follow, rate, and share it with someone who is doing their own inner work.

What’s In Your Neighborhood™ is a nonprofit focused on leaders developing their inner landscapes and building community dedicated to normalizing healing, reducing stigma, and expanding how we think about strength, leadership, and what it means to come home to ourselves.

To learn more, get involved, or support the mission, visit www.whatsinyourneighborhood.org.

Until next time, keep tending to your own neighborhood. It matters more than you know.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to What's in Your Neighborhood, Conversations for the Shame Shifter in all of Us. I'm Melanie Vargas. After decades in executive leadership and coaching high performers, I've learned the real work happens in the parts that we hide. Each episode, I sit with leaders, rebels, and real people who've taken off their masks to explore their inner landscape, shaping how we live and lead. If you're ready for more truth, courage, and authenticity, you're in the right place. So let's go there. What's in your neighborhood? Welcome everyone. I'm excited to introduce our guest today. Before we dive in, I want to share a bit about our guest today and his impressive background. Vince Sissan spent 15 years at two of the most recognizable tech companies in the world, building careers, leading teams, and helping others to find their footing in high-stakes environments. From the outside, it looked like success. On the inside, he was quietly asking himself hard questions. What is it costing me by staying in the confines of this tech bubble? What mass am I being forced to constantly wear? Is there another mountain to climb other than this corporate ladder? Those questions eventually became the foundation of everything. After nearly 13 years at Meta, where he led recruiting, built in inclusion initiatives, and served as president of Pride at Meta, Vince walked away to build something of his own, Limitless Arc, a coaching practice rooted in a simple belief. Your ARC isn't finished, and the next chapter is yours to write. He holds a PCC credential from the International Coaching Federation and is a graduate of the Hudson Institute of Coaching. But what he brings to his clients goes beyond methodology. It's the lived experience of navigating identity, transition, and the quiet grief of outgrowing who you used to be. He works with emerging leaders, LGBTQ professionals, BIPOC change makers, and tech disruptors who feel the gap between where they are and who they're becoming. Vince's own ARC has never been a straight line. A proud Filipino American, born and raised in the San Francisco Bay Area, and a graduate of St. Mary's College of California, his path has wound from direct service work to advocating alongside people experiencing housing instability to the heights of big tech, to the international discomfort of building something entirely new. He currently serves on the advisory board of Seattle Repertory Theater and is enrolled at Tulane University, pursuing a master of social work to eventually become a psychotherapist and licensed clinical social worker. Coaching taught him he can help clients navigate their careers, but social work will give him the tools to reach what's deep underneath. When he's not coaching, studying, or hitting the pool for a lap swim, he can be found drinking tea, reading, cooking with his husband, and being thoroughly outshined by his adorable corgi. Before I say welcome, I do have some things that I want to say about Vince. What I want to say is first just thinking about the power of coaching, as well as a little more about Vince from my perspective. I think there's something that people sometimes underestimate about the transformational experience of coaching and what it can lead to. And often from just one simple question, coaching is not always about major breakthroughs. Sometimes it's that one little question asked exactly at the right moment by someone who is deeply listening, which can be found in that coaching environment. And that single question can shift the complete trajectory trajectory of someone's life. And that is what happened with my coaching with Vince. We work in a peer coaching session during a heads in conference. And Vince asked me just the simple, powerful question that unlocks something in me that I had been carrying for years and didn't even know was there. I walked away from that coaching conversation, not only with the title of my book, What's in your neighborhood, but with the clarity and conviction that moved me straight into action. That day, like hours later, I sat in my hotel room and wrote three chapters of my book. And it has led me down the path to where I am today with this amazing movement. What Vince probably didn't realize in that moment is that his question became the catalyst for just where I am today and sparked this movement that I'm in, this podcast and this deeper calling in my life. He's thoughtful, deeply present, intuitive, incredibly gifted at helping people find themselves and hear themselves in a new way. But beyond being an exceptional coach, he's someone that I truly admire tremendously as a human being, as a friend. He's in my Seattle Hudson community. His impact on my life has been profound. And I have no doubt that he's had a tremendous impact on other people's lives. So enormous gratitude for the role that you've played in my life, Vince. I told you this part was going to be hard to sit through because I had put together quite a few thoughts and thinking about the meaningful journey that I have been on that, you know, and you'll have to read my book if you want to hear what that question was, because it's in the 12th chapter. So you have to get all the way to the end of the book to find out what the question is. But Vince, I am so grateful that you're here. Thank you for joining me. I'm so excited about our conversation today.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Thank you so much, Melanie, for that introduction. Uh wow. I am so honored to be here with you today and just honored to play such a vital part in your journey in creating this incredible community, this incredible movement, your book. One of the things I want to make sure I share today is that at that Hudson Conference, I attended and arrived pretty unsure of myself and unsure of whether I was going to continue being in the coaching space. I hadn't I hadn't taken on any new clients in quite a while arriving at that Hudson Conference just due to work, as we know. Corporate nine to five or corporate, you know, 50-hour work week plus can take on so much of your mental bandwidth. Um, so I really arrived unsure of my coaching capabilities if I still had it in me. And no one really from my small learning group was attending the conference. So I felt a little like a fish out of the water. And uh, but that moment, that peer coaching, peer-to-peer coaching moment that we had between each other, I mean, it just was everything that I needed at the right moment of time. It gave me the confidence, um, honestly, to keep going and to recognize that yes, Vince, like you can step away for a little bit, but the coach will always live within you. And for someone like yourself to tell me, you know, I've been coaching and I've been coached for 20 plus years, and some of that was the best coaching I've ever received. I mean, I full transparency walked away and had a very emotional moment. Um because it was just a moment of self-realization that, like, no, Vince, you you can do this. You you are gifted. You can coach even the most experienced um coaches and individuals and professionals out there. So self-doubt, you know, never goes away. But I needed that moment more than I think you even realized.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

We both needed that moment because I had felt the same through that whole conference. I had all that very loud inner critic going on. And a lot, you know, there's really liberty professional people at the Hudson conference. I mean, you're talking about elite C-level people and big, huge organizations that have gone on to be coaches, and it's intimidating. You're imposter syndrome can kick in in those moments. And I had been going through a lot in my life at that time, and I remember like, and I don't even remember what the session was when it was there are five, five or six hundred people in the room, and you stood up in front of everybody and said that you were learning who the fuck you are. This is gonna be an explicit episode by saying that word I know. But um, I was just like blown away by your courage. And then it was just, it was almost like it was destined because we sat at the same table that afternoon, didn't know you, didn't, you know, I I didn't plan to sit next to you. You just sat down at my table and I thought, okay, now this is who I'm gonna be peer coaching with. And it it was like it was supposed to happen. So what a magical experience.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Fully agree. I mean, I I do believe in divine timing and divine alignment. And before I stood up in front of those 600 people and declared, I'm figuring out or I'm realizing who the fuck I am. I remember consulting with the people around me, like, oh, should it be this explicit or should we include this word? And everyone said resound with a resounding yes, you should. Like it it it's such a moment of power to come back to yourself and say, No, I'm I'm remembering who the hell I am today.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

For sure. And you know, that is what this journey for me has been about is coming home to yourself. It's in this this metaphor of the neighborhood and um you know, taking off those masks and finding out who you are. And the journey home for me has been exactly that, like learning how to remove I my my entire identity be wrapped up in either achievements or work or whatever. And by letting that go, there's no other choice but to be who you are. Because now you've taken down all the mass, right? And yeah, and at first it is very unsettling. I'd be curious, um, when you think about this emotional neighborhood or metaphor for it, if it's an image or a memory or something like that. What do you feel like um resonates for you?

SPEAKER_01 10:29

I loved a garden. I love planting flowers. There's something so beautiful about flowers because to me they're they're temporary. They're beautiful for this fleeting moment uh of time, whether it's even just a few days or a few weeks, and then by the time fall rolls around, they're they're gone. Right. And so when I think about this emotional neighborhood metaphor, especially right now in this moment of time for me, I'm thinking about a garden and being surrounded by all of these beautiful plants and beautiful flowers that I have been cultivating and planting for years. And in this moment I'm feeling called to actually leave this garden. You know, something is pulling me away, whether it's another garden across the street or uh another garden in another part of the town or another city. But something has been pulling at me to leave this beautiful oasis that I've created over the last 15, 20 years and to go and start anew. Right. You know, pull away and cross the street, no matter how scary it is, and find a new garden, find a new patch of dirt to build, cultivate, and plant more beautiful flowers to come.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

As you were describing the garden, I could get this image of exactly what you were saying. I even have a chapter in the book about planting new gardens because I think it's so important. And the metaphor in thinking about reinventing yourself and trying new things, it just is really beautiful the way you described it. So thank you for that. If you are thinking about that garden and planting new gardens in your world, in your neighborhood, what is it that stands out for you? What part of your story stands out? It's a patch of dirt that's empty. You're you know, you're starting something new.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

What stands out to me is just this whole idea of reinvention, reinventing without even seeing the finish line. I don't know what my new garden is going to look like. I don't, I don't know if it's gonna be beautiful, I don't know. There's gonna be a lot of colors, I j I haven't seen it yet. But everything is pulling me towards this new garden and this new patch of dirt to we don't know what's in the ground yet, but I know I'll regret it if I don't see it through. If I don't use this next season of my life to see what comes out of the ground. Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah, our listeners heard your bio and some of the things that you've accomplished in your career, and it's a lot. I mean, you you've had a very successful career, you've made a big impact, big tech and all the different things, and the courage to just completely reinvent yourself, it takes a lot, especially when you're in a big stable job with a big stable paycheck. Um, and to take that leap is hard. What would you say to our listeners out there that might be stuck thinking about taking that leap?

SPEAKER_01 13:57

I mean, first of all, what I want to say is if you're not ready to make the leap, it's okay. I wasn't ready for years. Um, I listened to every voice of self-criticism. I've listened to my own self-doubt. I listened to the voices that told me, like, oh, next year is a better time. Or how about you take a sabbatical? Maybe that'll make things better. Or change how about you change roles or change departments or change, you know, something about your environment other than the big thing, right? They they call it golden handcuffs for a reason. But what I want to say to people in that situation is that listen to that voice that's asking you, what is it costing you by staying?

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

You know, I as a coach myself, I tend to ask that question a lot to my clients, but I wasn't willing to even ask that question to myself. I wasn't willing to look in the mirror and ask myself, what is it costing you by staying where you are?

SPEAKER_00 15:12

I love that question. And also something I wanted to circle back to that you said it is it's okay if you're still stuck. Whatever you're stuck in, if it's a relationship, a job, whatever the thing, we always have a lot of opinions. And often they're rooted in like something we absolutely we have no experience in. And freely share them about what people should and shouldn't be doing. That's what I love about coaching. We're not advising. And people will frequently either place a judgment or an opinion or give advice on what you should or shouldn't be doing. The truth is, everybody's path is different. Everybody's path is different. Sometimes it takes a while, and that's that is okay. And so I love that. The other thing I was thinking I'd like to ask you about, you talked about, um, I forgot how you labeled it, but you said something about that internal dialogue that you were having. What were some of the voices that were the loudest for you during all that?

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yeah, such a great question. And before I would love to circle back again, real quick, if I can. To put it into Hudson terminology, this this notion of cocooning, right? I carried a lot of internal shame and guilt for cocooning for so long. I mean, I had for years I had other Hudson coaches ask me, Vince, what when are you going out on your own? When's it happening? When are you taking the leap? And my go-to was always the this whole notion of like, oh not yet. I'm I'm still cocooning. You know, and but year after year, so I'm cocooning, you know, but and year after year, those other voices got louder and louder of like, okay, Vince, like what is it, what is it costing you? I mean, butterflies can only stay in a cocoon for so long. I think to get to the root of your question, to be honest, was was turning 40. I recently turned 40. You know, with these milestone birthdays, at least for in my experience, it causes you to really reflect about, okay, what did you accomplish this last decade and what do you want to accomplish in the next? And for me, I just woke up and said, you know what, on my 50th birthday 10 years from now, I don't want to be in the same place. I don't want to still say that, oh, I've been cocooning for the last 10 years. Like, what is the future Vince gonna be proud of? How do I make how do I make that person proud? I wanted to make sure I thought about what do I want to do for the next 25 years uh of my career, of my life. Do I want to be stuck doing what I'm still doing? And I loved my job as a recruiter. You know, as recruiters, we're in the business of changing people's lives. And, you know, we're there when a person decides to make a career move, take a new role, add a new company. We have a front row seat to someone's major move in their life. And then coaching brought me to a place of like, okay, as a coach, I can do more than just help someone figure out their next role. I could truly help someone transform and put their goals to paper and and put in the work, the inner and the outer work to have those goals come to fruition. And now as I transition again and pursue psychotherapy, now I can help someone heal the trauma, the grief that influences how they show up in the boardroom, how they show up in life, and how they show up in there every day. Um and so for me it was like, all right, it's time for me to get out of this cocoon because I have that why now. I can see a path to this fully realized self, you know. And who is that Vince? Is it, you know, the fully realized like coach, therapist, social worker, and I'm sure I'm gonna add a few more other things in the future, right? But staying true to this notion of the neighborhood, it's like, okay, I'm gonna build this garden and I I hope it's gonna be beautiful. I'm sure it will be, but it's okay to move from plot to plot. It's okay to continue building. There, there is no finish line. And just because I've been, I'm out of the cocoon doesn't mean I'll ever avoid cocooning cocooning again. I could very well cocoon again, you know, in five, 10, 15 years. I could cocoon two or three more times in my life. Who knows? But I've had to put away that shame and that guilt for cocooning, quote unquote, so long.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

I love what you're saying about the cocooning. And for our listeners, like I I'll never forget when I went through, I don't remember if it was Life Forward or the coaching program we learned about the cycle renewal. I think it's life forward, but um, Pam McClain was the one that introduced it when I was in that program, hearing it because I was actually at the worst point of my life when I was in the middle of Hudson. And I too cocooned for a really long time. But I remember, you know, as we were going through each of those sections feeling so validated that I could, because I had done all the therapy. I had done like all this work on myself, but I didn't understand what was wrong with me. The cycle of renewal can be so validating, whether you're in the doldrums or, you know, you could and straddling both places. Like, you know, in one place I was in the doldrums in my life, and another place I was cocooning, and another place I was going for it. But I spent a really long time cocooning too. And it's not fun when you're cocooning. It's not. And we're all fighting back to be in the go for it, because that's when we're flying high, right? And then when you're cocooning, it's like sad time, like you're within. It's the cocoon for crying out loud. It's you're by yourself. Um, can you remember a moment when you realized that things were starting to bubble up and you were stepping out of the cocoon?

SPEAKER_01 21:34

I think the the biggest moment for me was pretty recent when I think Meta sort of gave me permission to step out of that cocoon. And what I mean to say is that uh we're seeing a lot of restructuring in technology right now. You know, every day there's a new headline about layoffs or restructuring in terms of getting rid of middle management, you know, and and things like that and making things more. Efficient for the sake of AI and efficiency and all that. So once I started to see, you know, my role and a lot of my peers sort of disappear because I I wasn't in middle management for many years. Once I started seeing that, I honestly it was the kick in the it was the kick I needed. You know, I already had one foot out the door. I already had part of me out of that cocoon ready to fly. And um I took whatever little agency I had left and decided, you know what, this is this is the moment. Um it's unfortunate because I thought that I would actually retire at Meta. You know, it's one of those companies where you feel like you're gonna be there forever. So once I decided to leave, I felt like it was a just step one in becoming the fullest version of myself.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

There is this concept of like one door closes, another one opens up, right? Sometimes the door needs to close for us. Sometimes we close it on our own. You know, even I can think back to relationships that I didn't close the door, but I was very grateful somebody else did because it wasn't what I needed. And, you know, to me, that's a universe coming in and saying, nope, we're gonna close that door for you. It's time. And then, you know, here we are. I love that we're trying to stay in the metaphor too, the doors in the neighborhood. So I love that we're doing that. If you're thinking back even to the time when you were stepping out, you know, because you were you were at meta for how long?

SPEAKER_01 23:45

13 years.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah, a long time. Even if you think back to during that time, you were starting your new garden essentially. What were some of the emotions or the parts of you that were the most active during all of that?

SPEAKER_01 24:00

I think number one, fear was one of the biggest emotions. I mean, everything from am I gonna have health insurance? Uh, am I we gonna make it in terms of being able to pay our mortgage? I think the emotions that were most prevalent for me were absolutely the self-doubt. Is this the right move for me? Am I going to be successful? Um, even right at the genesis of this whole change, I had so many false narratives about um events, you're not even going to get into grad school. You know, you've been out of school now for 20 plus years. No university is gonna want some, you know, washed up tech bro that is pivoting careers. You're gonna be the oldest person in class. No one's gonna want to hear what you have to say. Had all these false narratives, you know, like that even that I wasn't gonna want to get in. But, you know, fast forward three months and I got into 90% of the schools that I applied for and am receiving a great scholarship with the the institution that I'm attending. So I think for me, I I'll have these emotions of fear or self-doubt, but the universe is continuing to prove me wrong. Right. The this whole notion, as long as you manifest and say out loud what you want, the universe usually conspires to give you what you want. And I am just now truly trying to subscribe to that thought because the universe is continuing to prove to me that, yes, Vince, you're in the right path. You're on the right path. You know, yes, our interaction at the Hudson conference, yes, Vince, like the coach is still in there. You can do this. I can get into grad school. I can land a great therapy internship. And so I hope as I walk in this journey, I'll continue to. I know there will be challenges along the way, but I know I'm going to meet some incredible people, clients, patients, professors, clinicians, and I'm excited for that. You know, this whole notion of building this new garden in a new neighborhood is that I know I haven't met some of the people that I'm meant to yet. I know that I haven't met the best version of me. And I'm still searching for that. I'm still searching for him. Um, one of my favorite songs is I still haven't found what I'm looking for. Um, because it's it's so true. And I may never find him, and that's okay. Um, but it is my constant life mission to continue searching for him and to continue searching for all the people that I haven't met yet, but I'm supposed to.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

As you were talking about what you were manifesting and also like the calling, the universe calling. I had that experience too. Like even with the book, I didn't know I was gonna write a book. Something had been calling me the for the months leading up to that conference. It was like tapping on my shoulder. And I didn't see it. I really didn't see it until I finished writing the book. And through writing in the book, I saw that things were it was calling for a long time before. The problem was that I wasn't listening. I wasn't listening. I was too busy achieving things, being defined by my career. You know, it all these other things were getting in the way of me being able to hear it or accept it or receive it. And there was then there was that pivotal moment, right? You know, looking back for you, what were some of the things? I mean, we touched on a lot of these already, but are there things that you can think of, think of that really stand out that were in your way as you were getting towards the aside from like being in the cocoon for so long? What were some of the other things that you felt like were in your way?

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Absolutely. Imposter syndrome. I feel imposter syndrome every time I'm surrounded by all these brilliant Hudson coaches. Yes, I'm a Hudson coach, but myself, but that imposter syndrome, I feel like it just never goes away. I I've had to fully realize that, you know what? Imposter syndrome is not a symptom. It's actually a sign. It's a sign that Vince, you're actually in the right place. You're exactly where you need to be. I mean, I remember starting my coaching program. I was one of two people of color in a class of 40. I was probably the I was at the time it was like I was the only openly queer person in my coaching class. And I remember, you know, when when you start, they hand they hand you this pamphlet, right? And it's like about this thick, and um, it's got everyone's bio in it.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Oh, I remember.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

I remember going through that that folder and holy crap. And just like as I turn each page, I'm like sweating. My palms are getting um moised, and um I'm like, wait a minute. Every time I turned the page, it was CEO, executive director, um, COO, president. It was masters, PhD. It was all of these things. And I remember sitting there being like, I'm just a recruiter. Um what am I doing here? Well, Vince, what did you get yourself into? Um, but at the end of the day, we're coaches, we're we're all human beings, we're all on our different journey.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

You know, it's a rigorous process to get into Hudson. I mean, and for people considering Hudson, it's like they don't just let everybody in. Plenty of people get turned away. I do remember that moment. And Michael Hudson was in my small cohort. I don't know if you know that. I coached him a couple of times. You want to talk about sweating.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Wow, no pressure.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

But I do remember that. I think you and I share a lot of those same loud inner critics and the imposter syndrome. You know, it's like the imposter, even if you just think about the imposter itself, that we label it as an imposter. To me, what I've learned about it is a part. That's in like Dick Schwartz's language. Like it's a part of me that formed early on in my life as a survival mechanism to protect me. And if I think about it like that, then I don't have so much anxiety about it. I'm able to approach it with a compassion for myself. And then I also am able to almost coach it in a sense, because I'm there with gratitude to accept it and receive it versus like trying to ask it to step aside. I don't know if that, you know, if that means anything to you, but that's how I think of it now.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

It does. I mean, I think imposter syndrome is not something to shy away from or to see as an enemy. It is something to embrace, right? I think you keep mentioning something about uh embracing it, letting things in. Um and that takes a lot of work. You know, I I have to remind myself often of like Vince, like, yes, this is a new environment. Yes, you might be the dumbest person in the room, but you've been through harder things. You know, you've grown up queer, Filipino-American, the a child of immigrants, bigger bodied. You've lived with chronic pain for many, many, many years. There are many hard things that you've gotten through and continue to go through, you'll get through this too.

unknown 32:09

Right?

SPEAKER_01 32:09

And so imposter syndrome is not something to shy away from or seen as the enemy. I mean, we we deal with that with chronic pain, right? Every time that you um see pain as um something in your body to shy away from and to push away, the pain actually amplifies in my experience. But once I say, you know what? Yeah, I'm in pain today, but it's okay. It's gonna come with me today. It's gonna walk with me today. What is my pain today trying to teach me today? Once I do that and I let it in, it's it's it's like magic. Like the pain levels maybe go down just one or two notches. And it reinforces this whole notion of how powerful the mindset is.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Yeah, for sure. I have a lot of health stuff, and a lot of my health stuff has been from trauma stuff in my past. And I have learned to have a different mindset around those things in my journey of healing and integration. It's been a very important part of coming home to myself. We talked about this a little bit around this idea of coming home to yourself and being authentic and true to who you are, which is partly why when you stood up in front of all those people, I wanted to just run over to you and just give you a great big hug. Um when you think about this process for you and coming home to yourself, what does that what does that mean for you?

SPEAKER_01 33:46

I think for me, this whole notion of coming home is that home is not just this stagnant thing, it it is something that's constantly evolving, something that I'm constantly redecorating, um, something that I'm constantly building. Um I mean it's it's such uh human nature, right? I we I always I I know someone who's always remodeling their home. Right. And if we if we think about um just the human spirit, sometimes we're just never happy with what we have or how our current home looks like. And that's okay. Um but this whole notion of coming home to myself is that you know, I've I've been here, but it's it's okay if it continues to evolve and continues to reinvent, and it's okay if I need to I want to repaint or remodel. Um that's okay. And giving myself permission to do that, uh and giving ourselves permission to do that is is really important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Love that. And also the image of how you were describing remodeling and repainting. And to me, some of that is around reinventation, yes, but also acceptance. When you think about the journey, the path that you've had, and you've described so much already about what you've been through in your life. I talk a lot about the mask. Work was a mask. You know, pretending like I fit in to cover up the imposter syndrome was a mask. It was almost like I put on an armor, I put on a suit every day to pretend like I fit in because I didn't feel worthy to be in the executive suite or the wherever I was. And so I felt like I was acting a part. You know, for me, that was my how my imposter showed up. That inside I had this whole story that I acted my way in and that I was just a really good actor. It was, and then I would get to the thing that I thought I wanted and I would get there, and then I was like, oh, I'm here now. Now I need to go there. I need to go to the next thing. And then maybe I would feel like I fit in there. And then it never really happened, right? I would did that for 30 years. What stands out for you when you think about either a mask or some of those armoring up parts of your story? What resonates for you?

SPEAKER_01 36:31

I'm a firm believer that we are constantly performing, you know, whether it's uh in the boardroom and you're wearing a suit. I just think that we are constantly wearing masks in order to fit into whatever environment that we're in. And that's why I think that coaching and therapy are so powerful is because we give people permission to take all that off.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

Like who like who are you behind the mask, the layers, the clothes? Like, let's truly get to the heart of the matter. You know, who are you when um all of that is taken off? You know, and who this whole notion of um dancing like no one's watching, you know, who is that who is that person? Um that's where I think truly that's where our our our home our home is. You know, like who are we as humans in our home, inside the four walls, but no one else is looking? Like, who's that person? That's that's what interests me most.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Yeah, and that we can sh we can create that space for our clients. I am curious because it it's been now. Well, it's been a year since we had that peer coaching moment and you stood up in the room about learning who the the fuck you are. We can say that word now because we're gonna mark this as explicit. Great. Um who do you feel like that is for you today, now that you're on this path?

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Um, I feel like I'm still stepping into who I am and who I'm meant to be in this new chapter. But I am definitely a year later more in line with who I want to be and who I want to become. You know, I'm right now in this period of remodeling and rebuilding, going back to school, going into an internship that I know almost nothing about, um, and going into these rooms and environments that I have not been in for 20 plus years. And I am in this constant state of oh my gosh, did I make the right decision? Do I belong in this space? Um, and that's this whole notion of being the imposter again, right? But to me, these these feelings indicate to me that I'm in the right place and I'm on the right path. And I'm meeting so many incredible people along the way. Incredible coaches, uh coaches turned therapists, therapists turn coaches, um solo entrepreneurs. I mean, it is a whole new world out here, and it took me stepping out of that environment that did give me so much, but it took me breaking out of that cocoon, breaking out that out of that garden, whatever metaphor you want to use. It took me it it took that action in order for me to to now be open to receive so many amazing experiences and people. So when you ask about, are you different than that person that you met a year ago? Absolutely a thousand percent. Um and I'm proud of that, I really am. Because after cocooning and staying put for so long, I can actually be very proud to say, like, this is my current journey. And I'm evolving into the next best version of myself.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

I love what you said, and even the idea of cocooning is like we know what happens after the cocoon is gone. Right? Beautiful butterfly emerges, even in the garden concept. We could pull that in. And this idea of rebuilding, you know, it isn't overnight. You know, we even like remodeling your house, rebuilding a house, doesn't happen overnight. So funny to me that we get to this point where like we're gonna take this step, and then all of a sudden we expect the house is gonna be painted, all the walls are all gonna be up, and it's gonna be perfect within like two months. I should know exactly what I'm doing, exactly what the path is, and I should be confident that I'm doing these things. And the truth is that's just not reality. That's why I like the idea of you know, remodeling or rebuilding as you're reinventing yourself, because your path is gonna be different than anyone else's. And then just, you know, those things that you talked about that get in the way, like fear, which is such a roadblock, right? And fear also will drive us to go back to old things and creating those narratives, right? What are some of the thoughts or narratives that you have had that you've noticed as you've been on this journey of rebuilding?

SPEAKER_01 42:26

I think the biggest one for me is this whole notion of if it's in the way, it is the way. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

That's a Vince quote right there.

SPEAKER_01 42:39

You know, like, you know, the only path forward is through. I I think recently when people ask me, hey Vince, like, how are you? How are you doing? You know, I've been trying to answer with this whole phrase or notion of like, I've been through. Not I'm fine, I'm good, no, none of that. I've been through. It it is a great conversation starter. Because they're like, oh, through what? And of course the coach in me is like, no, forget about me. What have you been through? You know, but yeah, you know, if if it's in the way, it it is the way, you know, it like the only path forward is through. Um through all of these emotions of self-doubt, eroster syndrome, fear. Because even after I accomplish this goal that's in front of me, you know, yes, you'll get the MSW. And then you have to get the all the hours to get your clinical license and the LCSW. And then you have to build your private practice, which again, to your point, Mel, it does it's not overnight. And I think that's one of the things that I see online and through speaking with people, it's like there's a mountain to climb at every step, even when you build that successful private practice. Then there's this whole notion of like, okay, do I expand? Do I make it a group practice? How do I impact more lives? How do I take on more clients? How do I make more money? You know, all these different things. There's just another thing to accomplish. And that for me was like, all right, Vince, choose your heart. Are you going to continue to climb the corporate ladder, which is soul sucking in my experience? Or am I going to choose another ladder, but for myself in building a new coaching and therapy practice? Right. So Vince, choose your heart. Which one is it? Um, and so that's the realization that I had to I had to come through to myself and this whole notion of cocooning. It's like you don't, we don't know if it's gonna, we're gonna be beautiful when we come out, but most of the time we are. So you just trusting again and in in me trusting in the universe that it's all going to be worth it in the end, um, is the the hope that I hold on to.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

So many amazing messages in there for people that are listening. And even this cocooning thing and the transformation, it's like there is transformation as we cycle through this stuff and those big transitions that we have in our lives and how powerful they are. You know, I didn't know I was in the cocoon for the longest time. Actually, I thought I had emerged a little bit from the cocoon after I finished Hudson, but I was still in it. I was in it really until about like 2022. And I didn't realize how tired I was in the cocoon. I was very tired. It's hard to do things when you're in the it's hard to do things when you're in the doldrums, but when you're in the cocoon, it's you mentioned breaking out. It's like that's hard, hard work. And it does require a lot of inner work, I would say, to be able to break out. And in the absence of that work, you can stay in. Do you agree with like the the inner work is like that's where you get the clarity about the fear and the shame and all those things, the thoughts. And, you know, sometimes for some people that is taking a sabbatical or getting therapy.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

I mean, cocooning is hard. You know, it definitely is tough doing that inner work and having these feelings of being stuck and not being able to move or unable to take that risk and take that jump. But in my experience, cocooning could also be comfortable. I got too comfortable. Yeah. And I wish your listeners could could see it or you could see it. It's it's but I have a poster on my in my office on the other side of this wall that says comfort is a slow death.

unknown 46:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

And I see it every day. It's in my line of sight in my office. And I try to remember remind myself, like, hmm, are you, Vince? Are you gonna slowly die or are are you gonna live today?

SPEAKER_00 46:54

Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, I've talked a lot about discomfort on the podcast because, you know, we are in a period of discomfort in the world. And we don't like it. We want to rush right past it. We wanna throw a new AI at it, throw a new system at it, you know, work through it, numb it out, numb out the discomfort somehow. Social media and media in general, whatever the thing is. And the truth is it's like that's the that's the beauty of it, is the discomfort in it, right? Um, and you did all that. Yeah, you did all that. I love that poster. You're gonna have to send me a picture of it. I will. I'm gonna have to order it on Amazon so I have it front and center the next time I'm uncomfortable and I want to get to immediate gratification because it's hard. Yeah, I think we really do want a quick fix for a lot of things. And most of the time there's and most of the time there's not a quick fix. Yeah. Yeah. Is there a message or an insight or a hope that you'd like our listeners to carry away?

SPEAKER_01 48:10

The message that I want listeners to carry away is befriend the fear. I saw fear as the enemy for a long time. And it takes a lot of work to try and see it as a friend and companion. But it wasn't until I started befriending the fear that I could see what was possible for myself. I could see the new flowers popping out of the dirt.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

Fear is the biggest roadblocke to our path forward. Um, one of my favorite questions is what if fear weren't there? What if there's no fear? How would you feel about this thing that you're thinking about? If there's just like fear is gone, you know, we don't have to worry about money, we don't have to worry about this, like everything is gone. And uh the other thing I talk a lot about is like most of the stuff we worry about, the stuff we fear, doesn't happen. Does not happen. So we spend a lot of time worrying about stuff, never does happen, and yet it holds us back, is the thing that holds us back. Yeah, that's a beautiful, beautiful thing to say. We've talked too about, I remember you your words when you said you the little bit of agency that you had left when you left Meta. And when you think about healing or integration or even maybe agency, what does that look like for you now?

SPEAKER_01 49:43

I think there are a lot of things that I am trying to unlearn. Even this whole idea of being available all the time and having to respond to an email or a message right away. Um, I've just been so conditioned by my almost two decades in the corporate world to be available at all times. I think maybe this is why there's this whole idea of stepping into therapy, because sometimes there's there's clear boundaries. You know, you get you get your 50 to 60 minutes and then we're done. My healing is looks like putting up more boundaries, right? Taking back my time, uh focusing on refilling my cup more intentionally, but having the time and capacity to do so. Right. And as I step into this new career um where, you know, I'm gonna be seeing lots of patients and clients all day long, having those boundaries and having those moments of self-care and recharging are going to be more important than ever. So there are a few things that I'm trying to unlearn and really kind of take a step back and put up more boundaries now that I have that agency, as you say. Right? Like I have control over how I rebuild. I have control over how many flowers I put in the ground. You know, no one's deciding that for me anymore. So and I'm that's something that I'm really excited about.

SPEAKER_00 51:24

I think that was beautifully said. Um, again, so many powerful things in your words today that I'm taking away. I I cannot wait to see what's next in your life. It's gonna be really fun to watch it play out. You are gonna be, I mean, you are a gifted coach. And then if you weave in the therapy practice, I just cannot even imagine. It's gonna be really fun to see your life unfolding. I'm so honored to be a part of your journey and just even a small way. And I was just so thankful that you're willing to come in this space with me today and talk about your beautiful garden that um still I have all these images of the garden with the butterfly and the transformation. And even if you think about our community and your community in your garden and the people that have supported you along the way, what does that look like for you now as we're coming to a close?

SPEAKER_01 52:20

I'm nothing without the people in my neighborhood. You know, both this emotional neighborhood that we're talking about and my little neighborhood. Our home is just surrounded by incredible neighbors that are like-minded, extremely diverse. We've gotten very close with some of our neighbors and traveling to far destinations for their anniversaries and celebrations and things like that. And um it's just a gift, right? I mean, life isn't meant to be done alone. And it it takes a lot of people to help you keep going, to refill your cup. One of the stories I want to share is that our first Thanksgiving in this house, my husband and I wanted it to be small, and we just invited um both of our parents. We're we're very lucky that both sets of our parents are still alive. And it was just the six of us, you know, at a quiet Thanksgiving. Uh but the core memory for me was my husband and I being able to thank our parents. Like all four of them are immigrants and immigrated to the United States to build a better life for their children. And the gift of being able to host them in our home and say all the sacrifices that the four of you made those this house is a testament to those sacrifices. So that was a a huge gift. And so I don't take for granted the physical and also the emotional homes that we build for ourselves and continue to build and reinvent and remodel and all those beautiful things. Um but I don't take for granted, you know, the uh the neighborhood, and that's why it's such a beautiful metaphor for you and this work and this podcast is every human wants to feel safe and taken care of and warm and comforted. And as humans, we do so much of that in our in our own homes. So that's why I think it's such a beautiful metaphor. And I'm so happy to be here with you today and so honored that you asked me to be a guest, and I'm in an incredible company with all of the different guests that you have, and I'm just grateful and and humbled to be here.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

Well, thank you. I I couldn't imagine the first season passing by without having you on here. It was it was meant to be. And also, like, we're both building our new neighborhoods, you know, or the new garden in the new neighborhood. We're both doing that. And you can reinvent yourself a million different times. I mean, I have. It's like I'm in the middle of it now. I have no idea what it's like a noodle on the wall right now, not making any money. Noodle's probably just gonna drop off on a floor at any point in time. And you know what? It's like I'm okay with that. You know, I might fail. Failure, I failed a bunch of times. And I'm okay with that too. And that's the beauty of the neighborhood, right? We can paint a new wall anytime we want, put up a new, put up new siding, plant new, pull all the damn flowers out and replant them and put any color we want in there. And so I love that. And it's part of the reason why I wanted the metaphor. Sometimes it's easier to tell our story in a metaphor than to tell the real part of it. It was for me when I wrote the book. Just you're such an important part of my story. I appreciate you so much. And you're gonna be an amazing therapist, an amazing coach therapist, whatever you decide to do with your life and your career and your journey. And I cannot wait to see it unfold. So thank you for being a part of it. Thank you for being a part of my neighborhood.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

And you are a part of mine always. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 56:34

Thank you. Thank you for joining us today. As you head back in your day, we invite you to notice what's happening in your own neighborhood, at work, at home, or inside yourself. Change often starts close to home. And sometimes the smallest shift in awareness can create the biggest ripple. If something in today's conversation stayed with you, we'd love for you to carry it forward and share it with someone else who might need it too. And if you're finding value in these conversations, it would mean a lot to us if you subscribed and left a review. We're just getting started, and your support really helps us grow the community. Until next time, take care of yourself and each other.