How Service Learning Shaped An OBGYN’s Purpose

What if the most important clinical tool isn’t in your pocket but in your posture toward people? We sit down with Dr. Katie Lucas, an OBGYN whose career was shaped by service learning in Belize and Nicaragua, and follow the throughline from open‑air clinics to private practice. Katie shares how she chose her specialty for its blend of surgery, continuity, and problem‑solving—and why true teamwork and strong mentors matter as much as any textbook.

We dive into language as clinical infrastructure. Katie explains how speaking Spanish transforms trust in women’s health, especially in sensitive exams and moments of crisis. She breaks down the realities of the patient‑provider‑interpreter triangle, offers practical tips for addressing the patient directly, and shows how small phrasing changes protect dignity. The conversation brings raw honesty about returning home after short‑term service, the discomfort of abundance, and the responsibility to translate that experience into everyday care. From free clinics to residency rotations, she shows how consistent practice and reflection make compassion durable.

For students and early‑career clinicians, Katie lays out a clear path: get your hands dirty in real clinics, learn the language your patients speak, seek mentors who model the values you want to live, and keep a journal so the lessons stick. We also share book recommendations on public health, equity, and the patient perspective to deepen your thinking beyond the ward. If you want to stand out in interviews and, more importantly, show up better for patients, this conversation is your roadmap to service‑driven medicine that lasts.

If this story moved you or gave you a new idea to try, follow the show, share this episode with a friend who needs a nudge, and leave a review with one lesson you’ll put into practice next week.

Recommended Books:

1. On Call: A Doctor's Journey in Public Service - Anthony Fauci
2. Medical Apartheid - Harriet Washington
3. In Shock - Rana Awdish
4. When Breath Becomes Air - Paul Kalanithi

I also want to thank our listeners for joining us as it is our goal to not only share with you our guest’s introduction to international healthcare, but also to share with you how that exposure to international healthcare has shaped their future path in healthcare. As true patient advocates, we should all aspire to be as well rounded as possible in order to meet the needs of our diverse patient populations. 

As a 50+ year nurse that has worked in quite a variety of clinical roles in our healthcare system, taught healthcare courses for the past 20 years at the university level, and has traveled extensively with my students on international service-learning trips, I can easily attest to the fact that healthcare focused students need, and greatly benefit from the opportunity to have hands-on experiential healthcare experiences in an international setting! I have seen the growth of students post travel as their self-confidence in their newly acquired skillsets, both clinical and cultural, facilitates their ability to take advantage of opportunities that previously may not have been available to them. By rendering care internationally, and stepping outside one's comfort zone, many more doors of opportunity will be opened.

Feel free to check out our website at www.islonline.org, follow us on Instagram @ islmedical, and reach out to me @ DrH@islonline.org

Transcript

Katie’s Path From Student To OBGYN

Dr. H 0:11

Well hey there, I am Dr. Patrick Hickey, or Dr. H, as many of my students refer to me. I want to welcome you to another episode of the International Service Learning Experiential Medical Education Podcast. During each episode, I will be interviewing healthcare-focused students and faculty from high school to university that have had an opportunity to participate in an international service learning trip. Additionally, I will be discussing the benefits and challenges to international service with healthcare professionals that have served abroad, as well as industry leaders in healthcare, education, study abroad, spirituality, and those living in the countries being served. Today I am very excited to have Dr. Katie Lucas as my guest. I've had the privilege of having Katie as a former student, and I'm very eager for her to share with us her journey in healthcare. Katie graduated in 2014 from the University of South Carolina with a Bachelor of Science degree in biology and a minor in international studies in 2019 with her MD degree from the OC School of Medicine in Greenville, South Carolina. In 2023, she finished her residency in obstetrics and gynecology at George Washington University Hospital in Washington, D.C. Katie has gone on multiple trips with international service learning, initially as a student and then as a student leader, where she co-taught an international service learning course. Katie is now in private practice where she specializes in OBGON care and women's health. It's been way too long. Just to let everybody know, Katie was a former student, but now she's all grown up and she's a physician and she's in a practice. And I'm I'm so excited to be able to reconnect with her because it's been such a long time. And I have the most most practiced position, I believe, in life, in that in addition to being a nurse, one of the best things in my life was being principal of a program called Capstone Scholars. And in that program, I was able to really connect with my students to the point where we we kind of changed the the faculty-student relationship to friend. And that was important. And that friend relationship came from working side by side in clinics in underserved populations. And very few faculty have that opportunity. So Katie and I worked together in a rural setting many, many, many years ago, and and we haven't seen each other since her graduation. So Katie, just let us know a little bit about yourself, where you're from, and what you're doing right now.

Dr. Katie Lucas 2:58

So I'm Katie Lucas. I was born and raised in Northern Virginia and made my way down to South Carolina. And that was the best decision I still stand by I ever made. I love my time at USC and being part of the Capstone Scholars program. And it was so formative at a time that was the most formative for most people. So I decided I would wanted to pursue medicine as an undergraduate student. And Dr. H and ISL had a huge role in how I proceeded in that journey. I did get accepted to medical school at South Carolina. School of Medicine went to Greenville, which is the second campus for South Carolina School of Medicine. And Greenville was amazing. I had an amazing education there, loved my time there. I decided I wanted to be an OBGYN. And I love working in women's health care. I love working with amazingly smart, talented people and a lot of women. And then I was, when I was applying the residency, decided I wanted to head back home. So I did my residency training at George Washington University in DC. And now I am a private practice over GIN in Richmond, which is about an hour and a half south of DC.

Dr. H 4:21

Wow. What uh Katie, uh, how long ago was it that that we did our service learning?

Dr. Katie Lucas 4:27

So the first one was Belize, and that was the first first for I think both of us. And that was in 2012. So I was a sophomore, yeah, sophomore as a college student. And then I did a second trip with you to Nicaragua, and that was the first one that I helped be a co-leader for as a student.

Choosing A Specialty With Intention

Dr. H 4:50

Wow. Talk about a trip down memory lane. That's great. You I want to go back to your OBGYM uh decision process. So many students kind of sort of think they know what they want to do in their undergrad, but I always tease them and say you're kind of like a kid in a candy store. You know, you you you go through your pediatric rotation, you like this, you go through your orthopedic rotation, you like that. How do you finally come up with that decision? Because you went through all your rotations in med school. How did you finally decide on OBGYN, just out of curiosity?

Dr. Katie Lucas 5:24

There was multiple factors in that decision, and it's kind of like, you know, you think about finding the best fit for you in terms of your goals, and you know, you mentioned about quality of life and technical challenge and diversity of you know clinical, the clinical medicine side of it. OBGYN for me was a combination of I loved the variety of what I did, and I still do. I mean, I can be in the operating room one day to delivering, you know, the second day to being in the office. And I have this longitudinal relationship with women throughout the entirety of their life. And that was something that I found so fulfilling as a resident, as a medical student, and you know, as a as a as an attending now. I mean, it's just it's something that I enjoy every year, seeing people come back, seeing what's new in their lives. So I don't think that's that's not unique to VIM, but it's it's definitely something that I cherish the most. And not to mention the fact that I just work with a lot of amazingly talented, just smart women. And I think that was a huge influence to me. All the attendings at the hospital in Greenville were just like gods to us. I mean, they were uh competent and they were smart and they were kind and strong. And it's just I when I worked with a lot of them, I was like, wow, this is what I want to be.

Why Service Learning And Med School

Dr. H 6:52

Isn't it amazing when when you work with such a collaborative team where everybody works together toward a common goal and everybody is working together to set each other up? What a wonderful opportunity to find that niche. Now, what was your decision for med school? I know you went on the trips with me, and I believe I believe you were a pre-med at the time as your own kind of pre-med designation. Where did you get the idea that you wanted to go to med school? Number one, and then how did you decide on going on a service learning medical mission trip, number two?

Dr. Katie Lucas 7:27

Well, I think I always had in the back of my mind I was interested in getting into the medical field. And I had actually through Capstone, through another service learning class at USC, I was taking a women's studies class at the time. We were doing service learning as part of the curriculum. So I actually got involved with the Columbia Free Clinic before I even knew about the Belize trip. So that was early on that year. And I was like, okay, I think I'm I'm this is something I want to do. And I, you know, kind of was like, I think I would like to be a doctor. There's so many amazing health-related careers out there, as you know. But I was like, I think I want to be a doctor. This seems to be what I was called to do. And so when I, you know, you brought up the ISL trip to Belize, and I was like, well, this is kind of an amazing collaboration of all my interests. I mean, I was an international studies minor, I wanted to, I have interest in travel, I enjoyed languages, and I had this kind of passion for Central and South America. And I just thought it was a great opportunity to explore all of these arrays of interests. So it was definitely a no-brainer. And I was, again, one of the probably the most formative experiences of my nascent career at the time.

Dr. H 8:46

Is there anything that you can recall? I know it was many, many years ago, but uh is there anything that you can recall during that experience either in Belize or or Nicaragua that that stands out?

Field Memories From Belize And Nicaragua

Dr. Katie Lucas 8:57

I mean, I think it it's all with me, you know, I almost every single day. I, you know, a little bit about what my practice is like now and kind of how I came through residency. George Washington, we we staff uh essentially a free clinic that's you know sponsored by one of the healthcare systems in Maryland. And it's it's pretty much 90, 95, 99%, you know, Hispanic people, people who speak Spanish. And you know, that was my residency. And that, you know, that the experience and beliefs in Nicaragua was very much formative for my decision to go to GW because of that component to the to our experience as residents. So I'm running a clinic and all my patients speak Spanish, and you're learning the language, you kind of have to. I mean, we take care of it, them inpatient as well. So you kind of have to learn as quickly as you can. And that was such a rewarding part of my residency experience, and because I felt it was a rewarding part of my ISL experience. And then now as an attending, I'd say probably a good 25% of my patients that I see now speak Spanish, and it's a it's a clinic that I'm honing and growing and very enthusiastic about. But you know, I think you know, when you when I think about the the Belize trip, especially, because you know, Belize had less infrastructure than Nicaragua did. And I just remember, you know, it was I think the day before our first clinic site, you know, it had rained a good bit the week before. And our our driver was mentioning how there's a chance that we can't get to the clinic site because the roads get washed out. And when you get to these clinic sites, I remember the open walled stalls that we were taking people's blood pressure, and you know, you're you're simultaneously learning how to hone these skills as a pre-med student. And that's challenging and it's it's exhilarating all in itself, and then you're doing it in a different country and you're doing it in a different language, and there were so many layers of reward challenge balancing during that trip. I think when you just you come away from it and you're like, wow, this is incredible, and it was very much confirming that okay, this is what I want to do, and I've kind of held on to that the last 13 years since I've gone through my career. And I kind of take some of those feelings now. I mean, I think my most favorite part of my practice now is is helping those who are underserved. And I volunteer on behalf of my practice at a free clinic in the community now, even so, because I just felt like that was what I loved about my job and still love about my job.

Dr. H 11:56

That that's fantastic that you you had that foundation in in Belize and then Nicaragua, and and that you're working in in clinics where a good number of probably have limited English proficiency. You know, one thing I did, Katie, with my doctoral research, I looked at the triadic relationship, the interpreter process. And I've actually working with a student right now, former student, Aubrey. She's working on her DNP, and she's extending my research, and she's developing a module for international service learning that will help every future student to learn more about the interpreter process. I'm sure you've been exposed to the interpreter process. Have you seen challenges yourself with the what we call the triadic relationship, the provider, the patient, and the provider of the patient and the interpreter?

Language, Trust, And Hispanic Patient Care

Dr. Katie Lucas 12:51

Yeah, I mean, I think in this digital age, particularly, you know, you have folks who are remote. And I'll say as an OBGYN, you're in a you're in a lot of sensitive situations where when I was going through residency and learning how to speak Spanish so much more than I was before, it's it's almost a necessity. If you are going to be in a situation that could be sensitive, and we're talking about women in vulnerable positions or women who have socioeconomic vulnerabilities, like when you speak their language, that you will see the difference in their relationship with you. And I've had patients, you know, say thank you so much, or have this kind of look on their face when I walk in the room and I start speaking to them in their language. That is the reason why I do it because it's it's giving someone the comfort to know that you care enough to speak to them in their language that they're gonna be able to speak talk with you so much better than through an interpreter. And again, in in cases of sensitive or emergent situations, having someone who's speaking to you in in their language makes a huge difference when it comes to patient, you know, provider or core. And I'll actually have patients be like, yeah, don't call that interpreter again. That was not a very good interpreter. So they'll actually tell you some feedback about whether or not they think. Yeah, and I think it's about, you know, I you were excellent about helping us through how to interact appropriately, you know, with an interpreter. And that's a skill I took with me from med school residency and beyond. And I have patients who speak other languages as well and still rely on interpreter services. But you know, remembering remembering to speak to address the patient and not the interpreter is a huge one. I think that you know, that was like probably day one of orientation of how to how to interact with a patient, not speaking their language when you're using interpreter services, you're still gonna make eye contact, you're still going to have the same rapport, you're gonna address them instead of saying her or he or them or something, you know, you're gonna address the person in front of you instead of.

Dr. H 15:18

So remind me, what is your Spanish proficiency?

Dr. Katie Lucas 15:23

I would say I am I am on my way to being fluent. I am definitely above just medical these days. I do regular lessons. I during residency, I was my next door neighbor, she's actually was a labor and delivery nurse in Spain, and she and I became really good friends, and she was tutoring me for a while, and I told her, you know, I really would like to just move past what I can do medically into conversational. So I will say at this point, I am more than medical and hopefully gonna be fluent in the next maybe couple of months, two years.

Dr. H 15:56

Excellent. Well, good. Do you recommend also then, Katie, that that students going into healthcare, if they have the opportunity to try to take another language? And if they did, would you recommend Spanish?

Dr. Katie Lucas 16:09

I mean, I think just as being a human, if you have interest in language, that's going to broaden your horizons as not only uh being an effective provider, but also just a competitive person to hire. I mean, everyone wants somebody who has that skill set. But you know, I think when Spanish is a very commonplace language now, especially regionally. So it depends on where you live. But I mean, I think if you learn Spanish, you're never gonna regret it. It's gonna help you with your patience and just the diversity of what you see. I mean, it's very strong word of mouth in in Hispanic communities where, you know, I'll be seeing somebody and they'll say, Well, my cousin's coming to see you next week, or my sister, or my mother, or my brother, you know, my brother, you know, some somebody in their family. And you'll you'll find that, you know, if you broadcast or you you offer that kind of service to somebody that there'll be more people too, and you'll have the opportunity to practice. I mean, I go to work every day, and every every Spanish speaking patient I have, it's kind of almost like an excitement. It's a little rush to my day where I'm practicing my language skills. And it could be that I did a lesson last night on irregular verbs or, you know, directive things or whatever. And I'm like, okay, well, I have all a couple new vocab words, and sometimes I share that and they'll ask me, Oh, where did you learn Spanish? And I'm like, well, you know, I learned throughout the course of my career, but right now I'm taking classes and I'll show them my app and they can kind of take all the now.

Dr. H 17:39

Do you see that within your colleagues, within your peers? Do you see a good number of them also uh attempting to learn Spanish or or being bilingual?

Dr. Katie Lucas 17:49

I would say no. There's two, I think two providers in our entire organization, maybe three, who well, well, I guess say three, who do speak a good amount of proficient, at least medical Spanish, if not conversational. And and some of them it's mostly because they've had similar stories to mine where they've done international travel or you know, maybe their residency program had a high prevalency of Spanish speaking patients, but not a ton. But I also, you know, when you get into the private practice world, it's a little different. If you're in an academic center, you know, your your payers are a lot of you know, Medicaid patients, and they tend to be folks who are underserved or uninsured, and you know, you're having more diversity of languages. So I'd say some academic centers, most people, you know, have some sort of Spanish skills or have been exposed to some sort of Spanish, you know, interactions. But you know, kind of in the private practice world regionally, it just really depends.

Interpreters, Sensitivity, And Ethics

Dr. H 18:44

Katie, when I when I've traveled on these trips, I'm every time I come home, I'm humbled. You went on two trips, you went to Belize and Nicaragua, you saw the same poverty, you say you saw the same underserved populations. I mean, we both served those populations when we were there. How did that affect you? Do you do you remember? I know it was years ago, but do you remember at all when you came back what what your feelings were? I I know a lot of students who shared with me that they afterwards, maybe weeks afterwards, they they felt a little depressed that that that they made a great connection with a patient or a family, and now they felt bad that two weeks later the medic medicine that we had dispersed, the the the dressings we had applied to the wound, or whatever the case was already passed, and they wondered, you know, did did our efforts really make a difference?

Dr. Katie Lucas 19:35

Yeah, I I think that's exactly correct. I mean, I think I remember there was a patient who came up the very last day, and they we were packing up and they had diabetes, hadn't tested their blood sugar and you know, for for quite some time and were feeling very sick. And, you know, we were able to give them a little bit of insulin. And the same thing goes for any medication we gave. It's like almost a countdown the back of your mind of I know exactly how many doses they have left. And that was definitely un unsettling when you come back. It just it just seems like you're exposed to this incredibly formative experience, and you you made an impact on someone's life, maybe possibly for the first time in your in your own life that you kind of were in that role for somebody else, and and you just kind of have this movie reel going in the back of your head of what's happening there now. And you know, it's definitely it's definitely was upsetting to to me, and I know a lot of other people share the same sentiment. And I remember, and I I think that's probably is true to this day. I remember coming back and like probably going to Pilo or the grocery store or whatever, and just being really unsettled by the excess that we have here in this country, and you know, blessed and grateful that I am for the resources to be able to do that when I know so many people don't. But it's just it was hard to stomach that we we were around so many wonderful people who had so little and gave so much of themselves, and you know, we could come back and there's everything we could possibly have. And I just think I took away from it like how grateful I am for my life and and how things are for me in this country, but you know, at the same time, like I wanted to go back, you know. I I just remember feeling like everything there is in like technicolor when you come back here and it's like black and white TV, you know, it was it was it was not comparable.

Learning Spanish And Clinical Impact

Dr. H 21:37

I I love that comparison. That's that's that's pretty interesting. You know, it's so you know, so many people, myself included, share that same feeling. But but you know, be reassured that that I think the best gift that we gave them was empowering them to help themselves. I mean, in addition to the band-aids and the medications and the treatments, along the way, we did take the time to educate them, whether it was a diabetic patient about their nutrition or other things. So rest assured that some of the things we did were were long-lasting. It is a culture shock coming back, and and you shared that they give so much and they have so little. And that that is amazing. You know, you're a perfect example, Katie, of of that seed that that I've unintentionally tried to plant with a lot of my students of paying it forward. You had this wonderful experience, it was humbling, it may be kind of sort of contributed to the path that you're on right now. But look at what you're doing right now. OBGM, you're you're serving an underserved population, you're you're practicing a language that's that's not comfortable to yourself, which in this case is Spanish, and and you're you're you're you're a champion for the patients. And you know, I I as you shared, the patients really appreciate that. And my not the best Spanish, I try as best I can to make that connection, make the eye contact as we learn down there, and and even reach out, and and I I I I always place a hand on a shoulder or an arm just as a comforting measure, like how are you doing today kind of thing. And and that's important because I think as you practice that in your daily practice, you may have students shadowing you, you may have other residents working and you coming through your practice. They get to see the way that you're conducting yourself, and then they pick up some of those good things from you, also, which is huge.

Dr. Katie Lucas 23:26

Yeah, and it's it's what I love. I mean, I you're right. It was a seed that was planted a long time ago that I've taken the time to kind of nurture and and really optimize, you know, the direction I want to go in to continue to be in this role, you know, in the in my community and serving underserved populations, and something I hope to continue as I move forward through my career. I mean, I'm I'm still a fairly new attending, so there's a good amount of call days and working and all that stuff. But you know, I would like to I've always wanted to get back to doing international service. So it's something that I would like to, it's in the works maybe in the next couple of years. I've just been kind of focused on getting my my practice running and my feet wet, and as an attending, it's a big, big uphill swing. But you know, as I'm getting more comfortable, I like to start working on finding some of those other opportunities again.

Dr. H 24:20

Know that I'd be uh hoping to work with you in the future if if if you're one of those few physicians who shut down your office and say, hey staff, let's all go down to Belize or or Guatemala or somewhere to do a week of health care. Because right now we're working with a fourth-year med student at USC who's leading a cohort of fourth-year med students and gap year students to Belize to do health care. And it was a student that's leading this trip. Her name is Gabby. She went on two of my service learning trips. So again, that seed I planted. Hopefully, that doesn't go away. And there are so many opportunities to to extend ourselves to do that. Katie, what would you what would you share for students that are number one, trying to decide on their future path in healthcare? As I shared with you before we went live, you know, I've been doing a lot of mentoring and and a lot of presentations trying to help students to figure out their path in life. So how would you how would you recommend that they do figure out their path in life, whether it's physician, nurse, PA, or whatever? And and then number two, what would you recommend or or or would you recommend those same students do what you did, go on a service learning trip?

Dr. Katie Lucas 25:32

Yeah, I mean, I think my my overwhelming you know advice, and that was it was always kind of the advice given to me, is go get your your hands dirty, you know, go get some experience, you know, working at a free clinic or or volunteering at the hospital, just putting yourself in an environment where you can imagine your day-to-day, I think is important. This is this is a long commitment. It's a very rewarding, but very long commitment that you're making. And that goes for nursing, that goes for pharmacy, that goes for PAs, MPs, anybody who wants to get into healthcare here. And you know, we've we've seen so many changes to the the world of healthcare, even in the last five years. You're right, dating myself is I feel like I'm a different generation now, even. But you know, I think for me it was always getting my hand starting. And I love that about the ISL trips because yes, you're learning a set of skills, we did orientations, we did lessons on how to suture, like all these technical things, but you're just learning how to be in the space. And the space itself is is can be very intimidating, and it can be it can be you know, and it may like make you feel vulnerable, but that's kind of the beauty of it. You're learning how to build yourself up and and be there for other people. But you know, my entire career has always been about getting my hands dirty.

Culture Shock, Gratitude, And Giving Back

Dr. H 26:58

I appreciate that. I I wrote down a few notes here, you know, get your hands dirty. Uh I love that. And and learn how to be in the space. You're so right. I mean, you you can't just go to class and and get good grades. You you've got to get out there, and I always say take the blinders off and and get involved. And and to be there for other people, you you need to be assertive and and push yourself and and and basically get out of your comfort zone. As you know, from the Capstone Scholars program that we were both involved in, I I developed the personal challenge program, which is very similar to what you've just said. My personal challenge program came from my fear of heights. And despite my fear of heights, I went on to climb the seven highest mountains on the seven continents of the world. I'm a pilot, a skydiver, uh, and I'm not ashamed to say at the age of 70 that I've cried on every mountain around the world, and I'm my my palms are sweaty and my heart is racing every time I go flying, but I still do it. But I get outside my comfort zone. But but you're still right. I mean, you know, get your hands dirty, get out there and do it. And and because I I think the more you do in what you've done, the more well-rounded you are, and the more well-rounded you are, the more opportunities you can present to your patient and to the patient's family. So kudos, kudos to you for for what you've done. And and I'm I'm really proud of you for championing women's health care issues. We need more women's health care advocates. I've always been one all my life, being a male in a female-dominated profession. I've always been very sensitive to the needs of my female patients, and I'm really excited to see more and more young women in healthcare taking up that cause. And I think I've shared with you that I'm working with a group of young ladies now at the University of South Carolina. It's called Women in Healthcare. And what we're doing for this group, it's it's all women, and they're all looking at different facets of uh roles in healthcare. But they're gonna be going to Belize in March, and it's gonna be an all-women clinic. And I'm really, really, really super excited that they want to do this because we're gonna have all female physicians, all female interpreters. And and the whole purpose of this female opportunity is to bring ladies from the community into our clinics that normally would not come because they feel a little intimidated by by the male uh physicians there, these ladies that suffer in silence, these ladies that have pain, these ladies that are caring for their families and pushing off their own pain. Heaven forbid they may have breast lumps, heaven forbid they may have gynecological issues. But here we have a wonderful opportunity to serve these ladies in the community that do so much for their families and don't normally ask for help, but are in need of assistance. So I'm excited to see that there are young women out there now that want to champion the college.

Dr. Katie Lucas 29:48

I mean, I think you're gonna give some, it's all of those, you know, female students an amazing experience to be exposed to that culture because you will find that you're absolutely right. A lot of women are. Are not able to actually seek the care that they need, or culturally they kind of suffer in silence, as you said, is because that's kind of what happens, you know. And I I remember, you know, I every single time I talk to a patient about you don't have to be in pain, you don't have to suffer with this. We can do something for you, we can help you. And it just never occurs to them that that's an option. And so, you know, you get to again be in that space with with a woman is is humbling and it's special just because you you know that you know you get to have a unique relationship with that individual. And and I think doing an all-female group is not only awesome just for what it is, but you're gonna you're gonna find that there you're gonna be able to reach so many more people because of that comfort that you can provide them.

Dr. H 30:47

Well, we're truly excited by that opportunity, and and and hopefully once we promote that opportunity, we'll see more and more female physicians like yourself, you know, taking advantage of those same opportunities because there is a great need and there's a great underserved population out there. Being a male in a female-dominated profession, I see, and I share this with my students many times, that patients have rights. And many, many times I've been told by a female patient, I would rather have a female nurse taking care of me. And I'm I'm perfectly fine with that. But I do share with my students they need to know this that patients have rights. Have you seen any challenges yourself in the in the clinical setting with the care providers being male or female? I mean, in your case, you're you're female, obviously, and you're OBGON. Have you seen any any issues or concerns with females not wanting male physicians, for example?

Dr. Katie Lucas 31:44

You know, I work with a lot of really wonderful, kind male, you know, male partners. And I think it's just a direction that uh women are preferring women providers. And you know, being, you know, I have a couple of friends who are male big joyans, definitely there's some intrinsic challenge there with that kind of just interaction. Again, you're in a sensitive space, you're in a role space with a woman who's delivering her, you know, examinations or whatever, and you know, always having a chaperone. I always have a chaperone myself too, but you know, you always want to make sure you have a chaperone. But I do I do get a good amount of patients who, you know, are new patients into our practice and they say that they prefer to have a woman or if they have they have history of trauma. So a lot of women have history of trauma, and a lot of us don't ask. So that's a big part of what I do is making sure I'm screening screening women for history of trauma because trauma can happen in any setting. It can be also perpetrated by a female. And if you're in this scenario where a woman is in a vulnerable space, then you always want to make sure that you're asking.

Women’s Clinics And Female-Only Care

Dr. H 32:47

One of the one of my pers people that I interviewed for a podcast, Maddie, actually shared that her interaction in, I believe it was in Guatemala, was with a patient who had had marital abuse, and she was able to be there for the patient, even though there was a language barrier. I believe she tried to speak as best Spanish she could. And I believe she actually taught her some yoga relaxation moves to put the person in a better place. And I believe she shared that that no one had helped her to that effect before, that no one had ever extended themselves to do what they had done. But but the little thing that Maddie had done put this patient in a much better place because the patient had been traumatized. And even now Maddie had shared that she wished she could have done more, but but she did do something which was fantastic. And and what you shared is that consciously you have to be aware that there could be some trauma in in almost every patient that you see.

Dr. Katie Lucas 33:45

Yeah, and I think even just learning the few phrases. I mean, I think about the the aspects of a physical examination in my office are very specific, obviously. And you know, even learning a few phrases of how to ask permission for the next step of the exam, I think that's the very least that we can do for a female patient who doesn't speak your language, and that goes for any language.

Dr. H 34:07

And then when you're in those sensitive situations, you also have an interpreter there too. So that could I depending. I mean, in your case, you may not need one, but but there is potential that you could have a very sensitive situation and also have an interpreter there, which could make the patient feel uncomfortable because there is a third person.

Dr. Katie Lucas 34:23

Yeah, and and sometimes that interpreter is a male. So that still goes along, and they're not gonna maybe disclose as much if there's an interpreter involved or someone that they don't feel comfortable being in the room. So, you know, you know, a lot of times the the patients will bring somebody who speaks English a little bit more proficiently than they may, and you know, that's always kind of a slippery slope, too. It's obviously they're not a medical interpreter. So, you know, I always want to make sure that especially when you're explaining treatment plans or diagnoses, that you're using the correct avenues for communicating with the patients, but sometimes those folks are just there also just for moral support. So you know, especially if you speak Spanish and you don't need their language, you know, you don't need them helping to interpret what you're saying. I still offer them to stay. I mean, especially women who are in the United States for for very long. There's a lot going on in in the world and the country that whatever makes women feel comfortable in my office, I'm gonna be an advocate for.

Trauma-Informed Care And Patient Choice

Dr. H 35:26

Good for you. Well, Katie, I really appreciate your time today. Um, I hope I didn't take you too much out of your comfort zone as we as we talked about uh your experience. Uh what a formative experience that that you had on our service learning trips. But but you know, I I've heard a lot of students share how how much of an influence I was on their trip, but but know that I became a much better person because of interacting with people like yourself and others. It's it's a two-way street. I mean, you picked up something for me, but I picked up on the passion that all of you students had. And that's kind of the genesis for why I'm doing this podcast. I uh I've heard this passion for years. And and you can look at an Instagram reel and you can look at a picture, and you can see someone hugging a little child and it looks so beautiful, but you you you you can't get the sense of the feeling like what we have have shared, you know, by talking passionately about these experiences. And I see the great value of students going on these service learning trips. Uh many students that are pre-med have shared with me that it always came up in their pre-med interviews when they went to the committee for their interview. And so many students are struggling. You know, how am I going to stand out? Uh how are they gonna pick me over everybody else? And but almost every one of my pre-med kids to a T that's had their interview has shared, well, tell me about this this medical mission trip you want. In your case, two of them, and one of them you were a leader. I mean, do you do you recall way back when? Did that ever come up in your conversation?

Dr. Katie Lucas 36:53

Oh yeah, and I think that was a great avenue to explore with a prospective interviewer about you know, what it what passion are you bringing to this? I mean, they still want to they still want to see, yes, you should you need to have good scores, you need to be smart, you need to be dedicated and disciplined, but they wanna they want to know what's gonna carry you on because they're people are making investments in you too, you know, they're just like yourself. I mean, they want to see what passion, what what love, what joy you're gonna have in in your career, because if you give into the career, it's gonna give so much more back to you. So I think it was probably the the easiest thing to talk about, number one. So, you know, it was my passion. I could I could display my passion through my ISL experiences, and you know, they people really loved hearing about it.

Dr. H 37:40

One of my many hickeisms is uh passion trumps everything. I I'm a firm believer that if you've got passion, you can get to anywhere and and do anything you want to do. I mean, I my passion drove me to climb the highest mountains in the world. My passion drove me to do quite a lot of things, and sounds like you've got that same passion and and people feel that passion. And and Katie, I want to ask you on my last podcast, one of the students brought up her favorite books in healthcare. I'm catching you off guard on this, but but she recommended a few books. Is is there anything? I mean, I didn't prepare you for this at all. Are there any healthcare-focused books that that you would recommend for people to read? I I I know in my syllabus I always put books that I recommended. I don't know if the students ever read them or not, but is there anything that you've read in years past that you might recommend? And if you have to look it up, that's okay.

Dr. Katie Lucas 38:35

Yes, and actually I feel like I just should take the computer to my library. There are a couple. I actually think Dr. Falci's book is excellent for those who can get through biographies, autobiographies, nonfiction. It's an excellent just forway into a brilliant mind and his really prolific career starting off in HIV research. I mean, he was on the ground beyond in HIV research in the 80s. So it's really a cool story, and then obviously ending in COVID. So that's you know, I think that's a really important for anybody who maybe worked through COVID like myself to go back and kind of see what was going on, you know, while you were in the trenches. And so I definitely recommend Dr. Fauci's book. For anybody who is interested in the socioeconomic side, the medical apartheid book is really, really excellent and talks about healthcare inequities in this country. There's a book by a I think she's an ICU physician called In Shock. She actually had a postpartum hemorrhage, so she talks about her experience as a patient in the ICU after her delivery and the trauma behind what happened to her. And I think it's really it's very poignant for OG lines, obviously, but it's more than that for all people being able to see both sides. You know, she was a patient, a very sick patient when she was also a physician herself. So those are a couple really good ones. I'm sure people have said when breath becomes air, that's always a great.

Dr. H 40:13

That was in my syllabus.

Dr. Katie Lucas 40:16

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I definitely, I mean, again, it's people don't aren't don't vibe with autobiographies, but Dr. Fauci book, Dr. Fauci's book is excellent.

Standing Out In Interviews With Service

Dr. H 40:24

Well, it's great. Well, I wrote down all three, and I'll be sure to put them in the notes uh for the podcast. And and I love that you share the books. Uh I, you know, one thing we do in the in the service learning medical mission trips is is we do reflections. You know, we as you remember, we encourage the students to write in a diary, and we we we will go around and ask what what did you experience? You have it right there. Oh my God. I know this is going to be an audio podcast, but Katie just showed me she's got her diary still from from the trips. So for those that don't know, I always encouraged students to write in a diary and and to reflect because at the young age of 18, 19, and 20, some of the experiences they're having are the first-time experiences with with with sorrow and and and and how did they grapple with that. And and and my wonderful leaders, like Katie, would would help the students, being almost only one year older than most of the students, to to deal with those emotions. And that's that's wonderful that you still have your books. You can you can you can look back on them. Can you can you can you recall anything of of journaling or reflections? Or is anything you want to share to that?

Dr. Katie Lucas 41:33

Yeah, I mean, I definitely brought them out last night because I was like, you know, I just kind of want to be back in that space and kind of see where I was. It was very helpful doing a little bit of reflection last night before preparing for this. But you know, we were all very, very like romantic, very poetic about how we felt about being like in nascent healthcare. And yes, there's a little bit of idealism in there, a lot of idealism in there, but it's just kind of nice to go back to how that you know how that was in that time for all of us. And you know, I I was very, very thorough. I think you gave me an AMI degree. So I mean, I would I would write down the food we had for meals, I had time for some techniques and like all kinds of stuff. I had some interesting tidbits about I think orientation lessons on magnet physiology. So a lot of it is just like kind of at the end of the day, it's about what I saw, what I felt, the the people that I that I you know connected with, a lot about the IPSL team in my entire career for Nicaragua because I was you know working so much more with the actual team members than just being one of the students. So, you know, Carla, I don't know if you remember Carla, but Carla is all over my journal for Nicaragua. She and I were quite buddies, you know, at that time. She was a very interesting, very intelligent person. I enjoyed just getting to know her. But you know, I comment on everything food, sights, smells, all this stuff about what we were doing during the day, all of the cultural stuff that we did, the the snorkeling and the my ruins and all the kind of cultural experiences that we got too. I mean, I have a lot of really nice reflections in there. So it was a little bit of a.

Recommended Books For Future Clinicians

Dr. H 43:20

For the listeners, I have a smile from ear to ear with Katie sharing that information. You made my day pulling out those diaries, by the way. But that was that was icing on the cake. I mean, it's so nice to reconnect with you, but then to see that you've got those treasures with you, that's that's just huge. You know, I I didn't do diaries on the trips. I mean, I I orchestrated everybody doing the reflections. But similar to you, what I've got uh right near my desk here is a huge bag of thank you letters from students that that remind me of of how we make such a big difference on on everybody else in in our daily activities. So I I I feel privileged to to have had you as a student and and honored to see where you're at in life right now. And I know that there's a little bit of me and you in that you, in your own way, are mentoring other people and helping them to see what is best for them in life. And and and and most importantly, you're creating such positive outcomes for your patients and their families. I mean, we all always have to consider families too. And and all that is because of that that love you have for healthcare, that passion you have that continues from when you were 18 and wet behind the ears and until here you are now in a thriving practice. So we're we're very privileged to to have you as a healthcare provider, and I'm I'm just so excited to see how you've done now in life and and and can't even imagine what what what the future is going to hold for you. Is there any any last words you want to share with us, Katie, before we sign off?

Dr. Katie Lucas 44:55

Well, thank you for for inviting me to have this opportunity. I mean, you know, it was always about giving back, and I know you instilled that in all of us. And, you know, I definitely encourage anybody who's interested in taking and taking up on this opportunity to get out there and help others and be in a culture that's not your own. And, you know, thank you for everything that you've done for me. I mean, you you really helped Kickstarter a really wonderful, very fulfilling career. And I'm I look forward to hopefully being able to do some of those experiences again now as intending.

Dr. H 45:25

Well, thanks. Uh that that's fantastic. Again, so excited, uh, Katie, that we're able to reconnect. Thank you for your time today. I know you're busy and you were able to carve out a little time for me. I'm sure some of our listeners will be very excited about seeing how they can try to emulate and replicate what you've done. I appreciate that. I want to sincerely thank our guest, Katie, for her willingness to join us today on the International Service Learning Experiential Medical Education podcast. But most importantly, I want to thank Katie for the passion that she has shared with us specific to her journey in healthcare. As a practicing OBGYM, Katie has already touched many lives. And as a culturally competent Spanish-speaking MD, she will no doubt be able to create even more positive patient outcomes after starting populations.