How International Service Shaped A Career In Clinical Research And Compassionate Care

What if a single week abroad could change the way you practice medicine for life? We sit down with Naimick Patel to follow his journey from curious freshman to student leader to oncology clinical research coordinator, connecting vivid field experiences in Nicaragua and Guatemala with the everyday realities of patient communication and clinical trials in the United States. Along the way, we unpack the habits that build trust fast—greeting patients in their language, sitting at eye level, speaking to the person rather than the translator—and why those “small” choices can lower anxiety, reduce errors, and open doors to care.

We explore how thoughtful international service avoids the fly-in, fly-out trap by partnering with local hospitals, community clinics, and faith leaders for continuity and follow-up. Naimick shares powerful moments, from church-based clinics to community celebrations, that reveal how gratitude and empathy can cross any language barrier. He also offers a clear-eyed comparison of public and private systems across the US, Nicaragua, Guatemala, and India, highlighting a constant: provider passion is universal, but access and infrastructure determine outcomes.

These lessons now shape his work enrolling diverse patients into oncology trials, where clear explanations, cultural humility, and genuine connection determine whether a patient considers research as a care option. If you’ve wondered how study abroad translates into real-world healthcare impact, or how to communicate better with interpreters without losing rapport, this conversation delivers practical steps you can use tomorrow—grounded in lived experience, not theory.

If this episode sparks a new idea or nudges you to serve, share it with a friend, leave a quick review, and subscribe so you never miss the next story that helps you grow as a caregiver.

Recommended Book: 

1. Being Mortal - Atul Gawande 

I also want to thank our listeners for joining us as it is our goal to not only share with you our guest’s introduction to international healthcare, but also to share with you how that exposure to international healthcare has shaped their future path in healthcare. As true patient advocates, we should all aspire to be as well rounded as possible in order to meet the needs of our diverse patient populations. 

As a 50+ year nurse that has worked in quite a variety of clinical roles in our healthcare system, taught healthcare courses for the past 20 years at the university level, and has traveled extensively with my students on international service-learning trips, I can easily attest to the fact that healthcare focused students need, and greatly benefit from the opportunity to have hands-on experiential healthcare experiences in an international setting! I have seen the growth of students post travel as their self-confidence in their newly acquired skillsets, both clinical and cultural, facilitates their ability to take advantage of opportunities that previously may not have been available to them. By rendering care internationally, and stepping outside one's comfort zone, many more doors of opportunity will be opened.

Feel free to check out our website at www.islonline.org, follow us on Instagram @ islmedical, and reach out to me @ DrH@islonline.org

Transcript

Dr. H 0:11

Well hey there, I'm Dr. Patrick Hickey, or Dr. H, as many of my students refer to me. I want to welcome you to another episode of the International Service Learning Experiential Medical Education Podcast. During each episode, I will be interviewing healthcare-focused students and faculty from high school to university that have had an opportunity to participate in an international service learning trip. Additionally, I will be discussing the benefits and challenges to international service with healthcare professionals that have served abroad, as well as industry leaders in healthcare, education, study abroad, spirituality, and those living in the countries being served. I am very excited today to have Naimik Patel as my guest. I've had the privilege of having Naamick as a former student, and I'm very eager for him to share with us his journey in healthcare. Naamick graduated in 2018 from the University of South Carolina with a Bachelor of Science in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. Naimik has gone on multiple trips with international service learning to Nicaragua, initially as a student and then as a student leader, where he co-taught an international service learning course. Naamek additionally joined an ISL trip to Guatemala as an alumnus of the University of South Carolina. Naamick is now a clinical research coordinator. Well, uh, hey, good morning. Uh this is Dr. H, and I'm real excited today to have our guest. And our guest is Naimik And full Naimik is a former former student, and we've really got to know each other very, very well over the years. Naimik uh was actually one of my leaders uh for one of my trips, and his his trip was quite unique. It was uh actually a pretty gargantuan effort at that time, as as I believe he had one of probably one of the biggest cohorts as a student leader. But all that said, we'll get into that in just a minute. But again, I'm excited to have Naimik Patel with me here this morning. Naimik, just to start us off, just uh tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, where you went to school, and and where you're at now.

Discovering ISL And First Trip Motivation

Naimik Patel 2:21

Sure. So hello everyone. Uh my name is Naimik Patel. Went to USC, graduated in 2018 with a degree in biochemistry and molecular biology. My career path kind of led me towards thinking that I would wanted to pursue something in medicine. Initially, I thought the answer was med school. But throughout some of my experience post-grad and getting into more of the clinical research space, I realized that my passion for medicine really lay within that clinical research atmosphere. And so currently, right now, I work as a clinical research coordinator for the MD Anderson Cancer Center here in Camden. So just across the uh river from Philadelphia. But I know we're gonna get into it, but how research shaped uh my how this trip shaped my perspective on research and how important it is to really include a very diverse patient population for these research studies. I mean, it all originated with these trips that we took way back in undergrad. So I'm excited to talk about it and to talk a little bit more about what happened and take a trip down memory lane.

Dr. H 3:35

Well, Naimik, I I appreciate that. And and it is interesting for me uh facilitating these these interviews, how how we can kind of sort of connect the dots. I mean, uh, you know, looking back at at where we were and where we're at right now, where first of all, what what initially motivated you to sign up for the service learning trip? And what trip or trips did you do with the University of South Carolina?

Naimik Patel 4:01

Absolutely. So I remember it was my freshman year, and I was at a Russell House. I think there was a freshman event or something similar going on early in the semester, and we were just meeting new folks and just talking about, you know, what we're planning to do here and how excited we were to attend the University of South Carolina. And through one of these conversations, someone brought up the fact that hey, there's this service learning trip that's going down to Nicaragua, Nicaragua, and there's an intra session or informational session coming up in a couple of days if I wanted to attend. And well, that got my gears churning and thinking about you know what, I want to go to USC, especially speaking with folks from all around the country who were like-minded. And of course, this was a capstone event. Um, so individuals who were really trying to make the most of their college experience. And so hearing their passion, hearing their desire to engage in something that seemed a little for me, something that I wouldn't even have considered beforehand, I wouldn't even have thought was an option as a freshman to do. It was very exciting to just take that step forward and attend that informational session. And so from there, luckily, I was very fortunate to be able to attend the spring break trip uh to Nicaragua in 2018, 2014 or spring of 2015, and then going back as a student leader in 2018 back to Nicaragua. So it kind of came full circle where you know I started my career at USC, interested, excited to see something new explore, a different domain of medicine that I haven't explored for myself yet. And then for it to come full circle to be able to lead a trip, mostly freshman, my senior year, and really bring that excitement and spark to them as well. And then there was one more trip I participated in after graduating to Guatemala as well.

Dr. H 6:12

So, Naimik, what is that experience like as a freshman student going to another country with a cohort of students you kind of sort of maybe don't know that well, a faculty member that you're putting blind faith in? I mean, what is is there a fear factor, number one, for for doing something like that?

Freshman Nerves And Cultural Preparation

Naimik Patel 6:33

I I think there is. I think Dr. Hickey, you make a good point. There is a fear factor, but it's more of an exciting factor. It's something that I've never done before. I'm sure that most of my peers haven't done before as well. And so it's exciting that you're able to use your college experience, use some time during your undergraduate studies to explore a new country, but even more than that, to be able to explore healthcare in a new country and to see how healthcare how healthcare works in different parts of the world. And in this case, it was Nicaragua. And so I remember sitting there in this informational session and then, you know, through the application session, and then one of the first meetings that we had prior to the trip, because I mean it is nerve-wracking, but Dr. Hickey did a fantastic job prepping us, the student leaders at that time, prepping us, helping us get in the right mindset, understand what to expect, to really make the most of our experience. So spring semester of freshman year, when everyone was gearing up to go and take meeting up for the first time to look at the trip and to talk about some of the more some of the details. I still remember sitting in this classroom of perhaps 25 of my peers sitting there just awestruck that this is something that we can experience as a freshman when I didn't even think it was possible. I've always wanted to travel. I always wanted to experience healthcare in a different country. And I have had some experience in India, but to be able to go to Nicaragua and kind of compare and contrast the healthcare systems between Nicaragua, India, and the US, I mean, that was a blessing in itself. And to any freshman that's listening, that's considering this, know that it does take a leap of faith. And like Dr. Hickey mentioned, you are putting your trust in a faculty member that you may not have known for much time up until that point. But you're going to be in a cohort of students who want to do the same, who are excited about the future, who are excited about rural healthcare and want to make a positive impact in this world. And that's what I think was the key factor in making this experience one of the defining moments of my time at USC, but also in my life. Because when else do you have an opportunity to spend an entire week in a different country working alongside your peers, uh, trying to learn more about the country and its values and its people, while also reflecting on, like Dr. Hickey mentioned, reflecting on your experience while you're there and using that to align your goals for the future. So to anyone who is skeptical or who thinks that this may not be for them, I will share that it is nerve-wracking, but it is equally as exciting to do so.

Leading A Large Cohort As Student Leader

Dr. H 9:47

And Naimik, what was your experience like when you returned as a leader? Because you went down initially as a freshman with a cohort of peers. And as you said, it was exciting and you learned a lot and reflection on on your future career pathway. Then you went as a leader of, and I can't recall at this time, I apologize. I think it was something like 40-ish of your peers, but you were now the unique student leader. What was that experience like? Because that's that's that's that's something completely different because most students who go on these trips will either be on a faculty-led trip or go with a cohort of friends, and and usually that's a small number. But in your case, and in this case, for the listeners, as a student leader, what my process was was that student leader would actually co-teach my course with me. And my vision was to have a student leader that would get up in front of the students and for the students to put their faith in that student leader. So once they were in country, the students would have much more of a comfort level with their student leader. Because I know there's always that challenge between student and faculty and confidentiality and feeling very comfortable about speaking to them. So I I had student leaders step up to that role. And Namek was that year that we went, was the unique only student leader for a pretty large cohort. So what what was that challenge Naimik?

Naimik Patel 11:14

I think, you know, as a senior, I felt very humbled and very honored that Dr. Hickey allowed me the opportunity to lead a cohort of my peers back to Nicaragua. And so reflecting upon that year, if we just start at the very beginning, connecting the dots between freshman year and that first interest meeting that we had, we did similar interest meetings at the very beginning of the semester, senior year, uh fall semester. So that same level excitement that I felt, I kind of felt again because this time it was not just me sitting there looking at a presentation, thinking about if this is something I want to do or want to pursue. It also became, as a senior, an opportunity for me to share my experience with my peers and to really show them that this can be a very big defining moment or growing moment for you. And that if you want to experience something that is, to be quite frank, different than anything else you have ever experienced in the US, this is something that you have to experience for yourself. In that case, in this case, going to Nicaragua, experience rural healthcare in Nicaragua. And so I remember standing up there during informational sessions and speaking to students about it. And that same level of awe and interest and excitement and a little bit of nervousness, I saw in those students sitting in front of me. And so leading this cohort of students going into spring semester when we had a course specifically designed for these students, once-a-week course, where we'd go over different health conditions that were uh that were prevalent at that time in the place, in the place and in the communities that we served, uh, getting familiar with our medical Spanish terminology that I still use today, but then also being able to speak about the culture, getting uh students excited about going to Nicaragua, uh brushing up on their medical skills, uh, such as being able to take a blood pressure and listening to listening to uh patients' full pulses, uh taking pulse aux measurements, the basics we were able to teach in this course as well. And so being a student leader, you were the bridge between the students and the faculty members of Dr. Hickey. And so it positioned me well to be able to gap, bridge those gaps that may have existed, to be able to speak to students on more of a peer level, to be able to answer quite any questions that they may have had. But I think most importantly, I think my role was to encourage students to make the most of their opportunity. And so during this year as well, we raised funds as a group and as a student cohort that we would distribute to local beneficiaries within the community as well. So not only were we going to take medical supplies and uh donations down, we are also collecting donations and encouraging students to do their own donation drive or to do their own campaign so that we could benefit local beneficiaries in Nicaragua. And so I think the biggest part going back to my answer was being able to encourage students to make the most of this opportunity and to really not take it for granted. Because you spend months and months uh thinking about this trip, preparing for this trip. Maybe you had a fundraiser, maybe you went out to ask for donations. Uh, but then the week comes and it goes and it goes so quick. And so just helping students make the most of the opportunity I felt like was my biggest contribution to the student cohort.

Building Long‑Term Community Partnerships

Dr. H 15:24

I I like naming that you share the that return to basics and that that same level of excitement. And and that's interesting that you share that because I see that in in the profession of nursing. I was asked some years ago during Nurses Week to come speak to a cohort of nurses at a local hospital. And my response was I'd be happy to do so. But what I think would really excite the nurses would be to have freshman nursing students that have a very high level of excitement come and shadow the nurses and let the nurses look at that excitement and then say, you know, I had that excitement, I had that passion before I can get it back because they see the excitement of other people that are stepping into their profession. So that is very interesting that that you saw that, you know, and again, it could be just a return to basics like vital signs or taking uh pulses or talking or learning how to talk to people. Now, you you you did two trips with me, and then you did a third trip that was outside of your undergrad experience. Tell us about that one.

Comparing Global Health Systems

Naimik Patel 16:31

So this third trip, we went as a cohort of student leaders back to Guatemala. And the focus of this trip was to serve as mentors, of course, for the students who went down to Guatemala on their service learning trip, but to also think about the long-term investment and our relationships with the local communities. And so what I really like about Dr. Hickey and of course ISL is that yes, we're going on a trip. And a common criticism you may hear is that you know, you go in, you spend a week in the community, and you leave, and then there's no follow-up. What I'm very happy to share is that, you know, some of the same communities that we've served in Nicaragua today, Dr. Hickey, there's a continued effort to go back to those similar communities to support the patient population as a long-term effort, not just a come in, spend a week in the community and expect things to change. Because we all know that that's not how real change occurs. And so going back to Guatemala, these student uh with the student leaders, past student leaders that we had, we really try to focus on where we can develop long-term relationships. So, whether it was in the local community hospital that was there and meeting with the surgeons that were there and being able to think talk about how we can not only work with each other, but to learn from one another. And so we did have on our trip a surgeon from Colombia that uh joined us and was Dr. Parker. So Dr. Parker was able to speak with the general surgeons there as well to not only think about how are we going to help each other right now for this trip, but then also how can US surgeons learn from surgeons in Guatemala? And then how can Guatemalan surgeons learn from the surgeons in the US? Because we all have something to share, we all have something to give to one another. And so that was one of the most the happiest moments, the the moment where I felt like there's a connection and passion between what I'm doing and where I'm going. And then also it served as a reminder that you know we have to think long-term in terms of community impact and drive. We also were able to go to Antigua and go to a private hospital there as well to look at how different volunteer organizations uh were able to support a private hospital that was there. And so we met with the medical director, well, who was actually from the states, who lives down in Guatemala full-time now, but being able to speak to her about how programs such as UPenn are able to come down year over year, surgeons and faculty and staff are able to come from UPenn to support their community there. So that was an interesting experience to learn about that. And then also we are able to look at a community that was a community clinic that was being built. Uh, but unfortunately, due to COVID, this the construction of the local community clinic had slowed down. But this clinic was also going to be something where different groups from the United States would come down at different parts of the year to offer different specialty services within the community as well. So I still remember the there was a banner on the wall. Uh, and if I find out, I'll share with you, Dr. Hickey, as well. Uh, that showed like University on Sylvania, Temple University, Tubbs University, different organizations, different community organizations from the US were able to actually started that process of forming a long-term relationship with this clinic so that different groups can go down and different groups can benefit this local community, share their services with this local community, local community clinic as well, and being able to just see that in action. And so I'm very excited to hear about any updates, and I follow that pretty closely of this local community clinic as well, because it's it's amazing that it's not just us, it's so many people in this world want to do good. There's so many people in this world who want to donate their time, who want to selfishly, selflessly serve others, and that to be one of those groups, to be a part of something that's greater than yourselves. I think that is a fantastic means for someone as a student going into this and trying to reaffirm their passions for healthcare. But then also someone like me who at this time I was starting to uh dip my toes into clinical research, who was still thinking about the same things, about a diverse patient population, of how you know the world is one family, and that if we don't help each other, then that's a great loss to ourselves.

Dr. H 21:33

I was gonna say I appreciate your your your sharing about the returning to the community and and and all of the universities and other community groups that that work together to build communities. Because I think what a lot of students see on trips is and and they they share with me, I feel like it I just put a band-aid on a big problem. We're gone. After two weeks, the medications are gone, the dressing is dried up, and and and the and the patient is back to where they were. But from what you're sharing with us, from what you've seen is it's a unique opportunity where we can work with the community and together with other partners, other universities, other civic groups, we can continue to make a difference in that community. And most importantly, as I share with my students, and you you hinted at it, is empower the people to take care of themselves because we we can bring medicine, we can bring treatments, but we need to help them to see how they can best get through what their challenges are, given the resources that they have. So that was a great reflection. I I really appreciate that. And and those communities that that you're talking about still continue to thrive. More and more civic groups and universities are stepping up, seeing the value of international health care. And and one thing that you named that's very unique about yourself, in addition to having that pre-med focus, and in addition to having traveled at least three times through the University of South Carolina to make a difference in Latin American countries, you've also had the opportunity to travel to India and to see their healthcare system, which is which is very unique. So you've seen the American healthcare system, you've seen a bit of the Indian healthcare system, and then you've seen the healthcare system of both Guatemala and Nicaragua, is that correct? So, so having that vision, that global vision, what is your your commentary on the level of healthcare that you see here in the United States? Because you're very involved now, as you alluded to in cancer research. What do you see as far as our level of health care compared to the other countries?

Human Connection And Gratitude Stories

Naimik Patel 23:43

You know, I'm glad you brought that up because there's a there's a point to be to be made and to be understood that the communities that I've seen in Nicaragua, in Guatemala, I've seen both the community hospitals or the government-funded hospitals as as well as the private hospitals that exist in both countries. And that that also is true for India. I saw I've seen the government-run facilities, government-funded facilities, as well as the private facilities. And so it kind of becomes a case of the private communities that you see, whether it's in the US, in Guatemala, in Nicaragua, or India, you're going to receive the best care. Doesn't matter who you are, doesn't matter what country you're in. If you're in a private hospital, unfortunately, which does cost more and which the local community may not be able to afford, but the level of care and quality that you receive is pretty equal when compared to global hospital systems. I think a difference that you see, especially in the government-run facilities, is that let's start with what do you see? What's the same amongst the government-funded facilities in India, Guatemala, and Nicaragua? And I think without a shadow of a doubt, what you see is the passion for the healthcare providers that are there. Just because they are faced with an overwhelming amount of patients, and perhaps they don't have access to the same level of resources that the private hospital private hospitals do. The care grit determination of the providers that are there really give you a sense of how much they care for their profession, but then also how much they can do with what little that they have. And so I've seen uh uh the government-funded hospitals in India. I've seen patients pull up in tractors, in hay bales. I've seen patients after they admit it, their entire community comes together and rallies behind their care. I've seen those providers who work in those government-funded hospitals go to the farms themselves to provide health care, even after a long day at the clinic that they may have had. I've seen them try to provide the best level of care that they've had, that they can provide, no matter what circumstances that they're in. So I would like to comment on that, that it is remarkable that it is not just how much you have. And, you know, of course, in the US, healthcare is very different than how it is in the rest of the world. But that level of care, understanding, grit, and determination amongst healthcare providers, whether it's privately funded hospitals or government-funded hospitals, that's the common denominator.

Photography Lens On Nonverbal Care

Dr. H 26:57

Well, Naimik, I typically share one of my hickeisms of which you've heard many over the years. And one of one of those is directly related to what you just shared, and that is passion trumps everything. And it is amazing, uh, as you have seen in in countries around the world, and uh as I have seen in 45 plus years of healthcare, the passion that healthcare professionals bring to their careers. And, you know, very few, if any of us, go into healthcare, I believe, for the money. If you do, you're going to be sorely challenged by the challenges therein. But it it is that passion to to make a difference in someone's life. It is that passion to help direct them through the red tape and the bureaucracy that that we see in our healthcare systems. And and it is so fortunate that as a student, you get to see that passion because what what what a joy to know that that you're going into a profession where there is such passion, where you can help people that are very underserved to navigate through the systems that they're in that sometimes can be a little complicated. And, you know, I see all of us, I often say another hickeism is that I feel like I'm a door opener. I see all of us in healthcare as door openers. We open a door of opportunity for our patients and for their families. You know, we we we help them get access to care. And that's something that you alluded to, you know, the challenges, as you say, in the government hospitals, where a lot of people can't make it to the hospitals, they can't make it to the clinic. So so when the healthcare providers actually go on the road on the trail, dusty trail, so to speak, to help them, that that's huge. And it it's uh just amazing. I'm so so glad you brought that up. And and you know, it it's it's it's just amazing that that we have these opportunities to make a difference. And and I know, and and maybe you can speak to it. I know that those that we're caring for are deeply appreciative. Can you can you recall any of from all the countries you've been, anything that stands out for from the people that you cared for, any any particular patient or situation or or scenario where where you observe somebody giving thanks for for the care that we were able to render?

Naimik Patel 29:17

I remember uh 2018 on our trip uh back to Nicaragua as a student leader, it was actually we were we set up clinics in the local community churches. And actually, the on the final day when we just finished wrapped up our clinic for that day, we held this celebration with the local community members, with of course the children of the community. We passed out just little stickers and little trinkets and little gifts, and you know, we really just spent time not as you know me to you as an American to someone from Nicaragua, but as we just celebrate together as a humanity that you know what what would Have it taken to get us together here in this place, and we could have just celebrated the fact that we were able to spend this past week together, that we got to know each other a little bit more, that of course we learned from the people, the cult, the beautiful culture of Nicaragua, and we were able to experience that together. And also we were able to celebrate just with the local community members how much we've grown in just the short amount of time that we've known each other. And so, in one of these community celebrations that we had, I remember as we as we were uh celebrating the pastor of the local community church where we've held this, where we held our clinic, just comes over to me in broken English and just says, Thank you very much, thank you from my heart. And I have a picture of that pastor and me together. It was a simple frame, but the amount of heart that he put into that message, the amount of empathy and warmth that you felt, it didn't feel like you were speaking to someone from a different country. It felt like you were speaking to your own brother. And I think that's another advantage of this trip is that you're able to experience the humanity in this world. And so I got to experience that there's so much more that unites us. There's so many more similarities amongst us than there are differences. And so when we're celebrating in this community, of course, you know, the little children, the parents of the children, the community elders, we're all conversating, we're all community, we're all sharing this moment together, a moment that, like you mentioned, yeah, is gone in a flash. But in that moment, in that particular clinic, we're able to just celebrate the fact that hey, we are here together. There's so much more that brings us together and so much more that unites us than the differences.

From ISL To Oncology Research

Dr. H 32:06

Isn't it amazing, Naimik? That that what was probably such a small thing at that time, you know, a community event, getting together, connecting, was actually so much larger than you could ever have imagined because it is so profound to make a connection like that. And and as you shared, and and I appreciate this, as you shared, you make deep connections with people in such a short time. I mean, we're only there seven to ten days, and and you know, the passion that I see with with my students and of course myself, with those connections when we're all tearful when we're leaving, and and the hugs and and the love that's being shared. You know, it's there's very few times in life that you can reflect back on those times, and and I appreciate you bringing that up because it is it is very dynamic. And and I I think it's it's and I think that's really the genesis for this podcast. You know, I've felt this passion, and you can hear from Namek also the passion. I felt this for years, and and you you you can look at Instagram, you can look at Facebook, you can see a picture, you can see a video, but it it really doesn't capture the the passion you feel in these trips. And and I'm hopeful through hearing Namek stories and and other stories that that some of our listeners can can see and hear that passion also and say, I want a little bit of that. I need that in my life because I see where it's made a difference. And and namic, you look at things a little bit differently because you're you're an artist, you're a photographer. So I I know on a lot of our trips, you look through a lens of a camera and you have a different perspective on the healthcare. Because I would see you sometimes just step back and we'd all be doing different things, and you'd be over there focusing your camera and taking uh a picture. From the from the photographic artist perspective, from that perspective, give us a little bit about what you saw through that lens, you know, the lens of a photographer.

Training Better Communication With Interpreters

Naimik Patel 34:08

That is a good point. And I still remember distinctly three photocs of this trip, with one photograph being between one of the students that were on the trip and a child of the community. And I remember that this student, perhaps like many of us who went on this trip for the first time, uh, stronger uh Spanish wasn't their strong point. So maybe it feels maybe a question in some folks' mind is that if I don't speak Spanish, am I really gonna get anything out of this trip? And let me just say, let me just say that A, there's translators everywhere, but then also because you're immersed in the community, because you're immersed in this experience, you pick up on Spanish really, really quickly. And so this was a moment between a student who faced similar questions about will I be able to communicate Spanish? Uh, wasn't their strong suit? And so they had limited vocabulary that they could use. But I still remember that moment where the student was handing the child a sticker, and then the child would take the sticker and then put it on the student, back on the student. So these are two people who speak. You would say that they have more differences than they have similarities. They grew up in two different countries, were born in two different countries, speak two different languages, cannot communicate with each other. But what you see in this moment is that point of connection that you know it didn't matter that they couldn't speak the same language because in that moment they were speaking to each other, they were talking to each other through their actions, their emotions, through just their interactions together. And I saw that quite a bit. And as a photographer, I know that sometimes the the best moments are the moments are captured just serendipitously, or just captured without planning or just looking at moments that just exist. Because there's beautiful moments all around us, but we don't perhaps we don't see all of them to at the right moment to take a photo of. So just seeing this student and the child interact with each other, that was one of the most special moments together, just because you saw them communicate, you saw that bond, you saw uh like and you saw how close they got, and within just such a short amount of time, it just really reaffirmed the uh the mantra that we are more similar than we are different.

Dr. H 36:50

What a what a what a great reflection that that causes me to reflect on that too. That that is the that's so accurate. I mean, uh, and and I appreciate you bringing up that there may be some students that are a little fearful of not speaking the language, but that that language of of of of love for one another and and to be able to smile and light up another person's face. And and I've seen uh not not through the lens that you see, but I I've seen many students do similar when they're playing little games with kids and and they don't speak a common language, but but they're communicating. What what a great observation, Namik. Namik, tell us a little bit about uh I want to I want you to share what you're doing now and and what you're doing now and and how the experience you had on on the three trips with with ISL and then of course your India travels. How how is all that involved? And and are you using anything in your daily practice that reflects back on some of your former uh service learning trips?

Naimik Patel 37:51

Absolutely. And so right now I work as a research coordinator for the MD Anderson Cancer Center at Camden. And so I facilitate a lot of the research or translational research from a pharmaceutical company, so phase one, two, or three studies or cooperative group studies, and bringing them into our unique patient population in Camden. And so really working focused on enrollment, focused on screening, eligibility, and then walking a patient through the entire process that is a clinical trial. And as you would imagine, and as you know, not everyone has a positive perception on clinical trials. And so when you present a trial to a provider, or when you when the provider refers a patient for a clinical trial, I think one of the greatest lessons, lessons I've learned from this trip and from my past experiences with ISL is that you really have to stop and understand where that person is. You have to stop and reflect upon does this patient have different perspectives? What is the goal? What are the goals of care for this patient? Uh, do they understand what a clinical trial is? The person, every patient that comes to me is not the same patient. Everyone has a different lived experience. And so the strip from ISL has taught me to just stop and try and seek to understand where the person is coming from when presenting a clinical trial. And then the second is that I'm telling everyone, you you have to learn Spanish or a little bit about a little, a little bit uh of Spanish, especially when you're working in healthcare, because so many patients that I've seen they speak very limited English. And of course, we have translators, and of course we have folks that can help us communicate. But those moments in between the visit, so when the patient is getting up to leave or when the patient is entering the clinic for the first time, being able to just say hello, how are you? How are you doing? That forms an instant connection with the patient that's sitting in front of you. And so that's another thing that I've really took from this uh these trips as well, is that if you get to learn a little bit of the language of the person who's sitting in front of you, you can build that trust and that relationship and the rapport with the person sitting there so much more quickly than just simply sitting there and hoping that your sentiments and that your message is being uh communicated thoroughly via a third-party translator.

Overcoming Fears: Cost, Travel, Food, Language

Dr. H 40:36

Well, Naimik, I I really appreciate you bringing up the cultural piece of what you learned to include, you know, speaking the language of the patient. And and I I I tend to agree, even if you learn a little bit, it makes a huge connection with with the patient population. And and as you know, after a week of of being in country, you pick up actually a lot of of medical Spanish in the cases when we're traveling in in Latin America, and what a difference that makes. Excuse me. And going back to your earlier point, you know, very glad that you spoke to assuming, you know, when we assume that someone knows something, we can make mistakes. So never never take for granted that a patient is on the same level as where you're at as far as their interpretation of the of the medical issue at hand. And and I feel as as as medical providers, we're we're also medical translators. We we've got to break down those big words that that are common to us and and break it down to where these people can understand exactly what's going on and and helping them to ask the questions that they don't know what to ask. And and I'm I'm sure you see that a lot, especially in when you're working in the field of oncology, where there is a huge fear factor just just with the diagnosis itself. And and I'm glad you're able to bring up how your experiences internationally have helped you to manage those fears, those anxieties, and and to make it very basic, just connecting with someone, just uh shaking their hand, eye contact, asking how they're doing, how the family's doing, you know, making it more personable. That that's huge. And if you don't mind, naming, because I I do know you more than most, share a little bit on that topic of healthcare providers project you're actually working on, uh specific to, I believe it was specific to uh physicians' uh handwriting and and the project of terminology and and how physicians interact with patients. I'm digging deep on that. A project when you were working oncology.

Naimik Patel 42:45

Yes, uh remind me of that project. Uh the research project that we had to improve patient-provided communication. Uh yes, yes, yes.

Dr. H 42:54

Thank you, thank you.

Naimik Patel 42:55

Uh, Dr. Mark Auroric, another phenomenal provider in Greenville. He's now retired, but still an excellent communicator and someone I had the privilege of working with. But this was just in and around the time of COVID. And so we're really looking, digging deep on first how to improve improve patient-provider communication. Because I think sometimes the misconception comes that you have to spend more time with a patient or you have to spend more time in the room with the patient. But I don't think enough focus goes into the nonverbal communications that we have. And so this research project that we worked on was really focused on some training that we could give providers in terms of improving their nonverbal communication to try and facilitate that relationship between you and the patient, that trust, build it a little bit more quickly. And so it came down to even small things such as not being on the computer and typing while the patient is speaking with you, or if you're speaking with the patient, to sit on the stool and get eye level so it doesn't become so the patient's not always looking up at the provider. And then also when using Dr. Hickey, like you emphasized in our class as well, it's so important that even while you're using a translator, don't speak to the translator, but speak to the patient directly, even if they don't understand it, because the translator will be there to translate whatever you said, just to foster that relationship and that communication between the patient and the provider a little bit more quickly. And so it's very interesting that you know some of the things that we are doing in clinic, such as sitting on a chair, of course, sitting right across from the patient where the patient uh with these trips, where the patient was sitting, where you were sitting, where the provider was sitting, and where the translator was sitting, that all matters and that was all important. And I'm glad you brought it up because now I'm seeing, I'm just connecting the dots in my head. It's the same parallel that you have to be eye-level. If you're speaking with the patient, even if you're not speaking with in Spanish, you want to speak directly with the patient because that's who you're communicating with instead of looking at the translator, because that might be the most natural feeling to do is to just turn your head towards the translator, speak to translator, and let the translator translate. Really just focusing in on the patient provider communication, how to improve it so that A, it's a better experience for the provider, B, it's a better experience for the patient as well. And C, that trust that you garner, garner, and furnish is able to develop even more quickly when you're speaking eye to eye with the patient.

Personal Growth And Experiential Learning

Dr. H 45:55

Naimik. I mean, it's it's huge. And and you know, to that point, I mean, you and I are on the same page as as far as healthcare communications, but I don't see it being adequately taught in in school. I I think sometimes it's just a given that you you speak to your patients, but there's so much more to that from everything you just mentioned, from from where you sit to where you stand to how you introduce yourself to making physical contact with the patient. And and and and naming, I don't know if if I've shared with you, but one of my former students, Aubrey, who who I've already interviewed for an earlier podcast, she's actually creating a module for international service learning on the interpreter process. And she's building on my research, which looked at the triadic relationship. And just going back to what you were saying, that we typically now in healthcare use interpreters quite frequently, but we've not been trained on how to use an interpreter and what that triadic relationship is like. So ISL is really taking the lead, which I'm excited about. I'm also excited to see if we can get that implemented into nursing curriculums around the United States to, you know, as you know, Naamek, you know, healthcare is servitude. We're serving people, we're helping people, and and it's very humbling when we do that. But to do that, we we we need to approach them on their level, and we need to be more well-versed on on how to do that, how to how to role play, how to, you know, sit beside a patient, and and even you know, how to hold and comfort a patient when they're in distress. And and and I mean it goes on and on and on, you know. Again, I think it'd be a whole other show. It'd be nice to have a actually have a panel of you, have yourself and Aubrey and a few other people that are out there seeing that because it it does make a difference, you know, the uh what you just said about you know, typing on a on a computer and and and keep when you're in the room or or or your back to the patient when you're speaking to them. There's there's so many more things that we don't even realize we're doing because push comes to shove, rush, rush, rush. We we sometimes forget our manners, so to speak. But but I'm glad you brought that up. Naamick, uh, I really appreciate your time. What would you what would you share with a listener, a student that you know is kind of excited by what they've heard, kind of sort of maybe in the back of their minds, they they'd like to do what what you've done, what I've done, but are but are kind of on the fence. They're they're worried about the costs, they're worried about flying out of the country for the first time, they're worrying about foods that they're not comfortable with, a language they don't know. How would you how would you help someone that's in that situation uh feel a little bit better about making a decision to actually go on an international service trip?

Naimik Patel 48:47

Those are all valid concerns. And I I've heard something similar from our students that went on the trip as well. First and foremost, I will say that don't keep those concerns inside. Don't just keep them to yourselves. Please share those concerns first and foremost with the faculty leader. Because the when it comes to cost, there could be scholarships. There could be some grant money available for students who are pursuing these international trips. So speak to the faculty leader, email them, give them a call, let them know that, hey, you're very interested in going and participating in this program, but you have some concerns regarding the cost. And perhaps they can guide you in the right direction. Same thing with flights. We had a number of students on each of our trips, actually, who are first-time international flyers. And so working with them through the process of getting a passport if they didn't have one already, what it would be like to go through immigration in a different country. And then, of course, entry immigration back to the US, working with them to get travel insurance if that's something that they wanted. I promise you that if you have these concerns, you wouldn't be the first one. And I'm sure the faculty leader who you're working with can also work with you and really try to palliate some of your concerns very early on. And but when it comes to the food and the culture and what to expect, I promise you if it'll probably be something that you've not experienced before. But I want that to be something that excites you. Because the food that you have there, it's traditional Nicaraguan food if you're having it, but then you have also the foods that are more familiar to yourself. And so when it comes to food, ISO is very accommodating in letting you experience something new, something more cold, something that's more local, but then also having foods that you may be a little bit more comfortable with. But I'm telling you, the food was great all three times that we went there. I love fresh fruit and I love coffee, and it was amazing, amazing, amazing the food, the fruit, the coffee, the experience, the culture that you're able to uh go in and immerse yourself in the people of Nicaragua, the people of Guatemala, the people of India. All very welcoming. The world is is one nest, so to speak. And so when you go in there, when you embrace this opportunity with an open mind, I promise you, you'll thank yourself for it and you'll come out a better person.

Dr. H 51:33

Wow, that that's huge, Naimik. I I really appreciate that validation. How are you? I mean, it it's hard. You've you've kind of shared this throughout, but how are you a different person? I when you reflect back on on your experiences, how are you a different person today? Looking back at that freshman year, because of your interactions on these trips, how have you grown?

Book Recommendation And Closing Reflections

Naimik Patel 52:00

I think it's been 10 years since I went on that first trip to Nicaragua as a freshman. And I can say that the same skills that you learn of how to connect with someone who has a different lived experience as yourself. I think that that skill I still use today within the clinic when you're interacting with patients who have a different lived experience for myself, how to communicate, how to navigate those differences. But then also going back to my last point, learning how to embrace a culture that's different than yours, to be excited by it, to be curious, to ask questions. I feel like you learn these, you can learn these in the classroom, perhaps, of how to ask questions, how to communicate, how to interact with a culture that's different than yours. But until you put yourself in a position where you're actually in a different country, a different culture, when you're interacting with people with perhaps different values as yourself, I feel like you won't get the same experience. You wouldn't get the same experience as if I was just learned those skills here in the classroom in the States. And I'm telling you, you see in the real world, people are different. People have different lived experiences, different values, different cultures, even in the US. But until you're in that place where you have to navigate and build trust very quickly, such as on these trips with ISL, uh, you won't gain that experience. And that experience will be.

Dr. H 53:42

Well, Naimik, you you you validated the title of the podcast, which is experiential medical education. And and I totally agree. I mean, you know, I I can teach all this in the class, I can teach culture, I can teach the language, I can teach vital signs and so much more. But as you validate, until you go in country, until you go and and live a day in their shoes and and work in their community and eat at their restaurants and and be there with these people, feel their suffering, feel their pain, feel their, feel their exhilaration when you when you make a difference in your life. That that's that's just so huge. And and I appreciate that that that you saw that and and and that it's made you a different person to the point where you can use the skill sets that you learned in these developing countries in your workplace. And and I can remember, and and there was a little bit of arrogance earlier in some of my classes where I would share with students, you're gonna learn a lot from these people. And I can recall a few times where my students would say, How can we learn from these people? We're we're probably more well educated. And I said, You'll see. And you've you've kind of sort of validated how how we all learn. And it is a humbling experience. I mean, I mean, you grew, I grew, is that correct?

Naimik Patel 54:57

I agree. It is very humbling. And as as much as you want to believe that you're providing value for these communities that you're serving, you are becoming so much more of a better human being, a global citizen, uh participating in one of these trips because you're learning how the world operates and works in a culture that's perhaps distinct than the one that you live in right now.

Dr. H 55:26

What a great way to summarize our talk today. I I love that, Naimik. That's that's that's totally from the heart. And again, goes back to my Hickeyism of passion trumps everything. Just an amazing experience. Well, Naamick, one of my former guests actually put out there for the listeners books, and I didn't prepare you for this, books that they recommend. And and I've asked uh a few people prior to yourself coming on what books they would recommend to read, uh, healthcare focused books or or anything that that's made a difference. Apologize for not preparing you for this, but is there anything that comes to mind? I mean, in your healthcare arena field that you're working now, or or something associated with your international service work?

Naimik Patel 56:11

I I think Atol Gwande's Being Mortal is the book that I encourage everyone to read. It I think it just really just emphasizes the fact that we are one international community, we are a global healthcare community, and that the efforts that we put in today, and of course we're going into profession for healthcare to help others, shouldn't be just of the country that we reside in, but perhaps we can put some of those same efforts and trust and passion into serving serving the broader community. And so that level of understanding, like you mentioned, becoming a little bit more humble, being able to understand and immerse yourself in a culture that's different than yours. This book reaffirmed my passion for healthcare, but at the same time, it really connected the dots in terms of trying to learn more from one another.

Dr. H 57:09

I I appreciate you sharing that. One of my favorite books also, I believe I had that on my syllabus in my class. I I never know if students are reading my syllabus or or reading the books. I'm sure you read it on your own, but uh Tulguande, fascinating author. I I believe he's got another one, the Manifesto checklist. I I may be incorrect on that one, uh, where he talked about using checklists in the hospital environment. And and he was a surgeon. I had worked in the operating room previously, so I did follow a lot of his readings. But yes, that is a great book, and and I'll be sure to share that with our listeners. Well, Namek, fantastic having you today. Any any last parting uh words you'd like to share with our listeners? You you you've been able to share so much already. I I don't know how you can make make it any any better than you've already done, but but I always want to give our uh our guests uh the last uh the last chance to share anything they want.

Naimik Patel 58:04

Dale pues, move forward, do it.

Dr. H 58:07

Move forward. Oh, I appreciate that. That's a good one. Yeah. Uh I learned in uh from a good friend in in Canada some Latin, Festina Lente, make haste slowly, always be in control, you know, always be moving forward, but always be in control of what you're doing. And and that makes so much sense moving forward or always being in control, because as you know, the healthcare environment that we're working in is very fast-paced. And you you've got to keep moving forward. And and and and naming, we've we've shared and chatted just recently, you know, that moving forward even means improving one's per uh place in life, looking for higher education. You know, what more can I do to better serve my my patient population? Do I need to go back to school? Do I need to take more courses? Do I need to take more training? Because things are changing in our environment all the time. So always moving forward that that captures that perfectly. You know, education doesn't finish, as you know, once you graduate from university. I mean, that's that's just a that's just a stepping stone, that's a platform because you know you go from academe into the real world and and and now you're you're trying to put together what you've learned in in the classroom setting. But more importantly, you're learning so much more than you could have ever learned in the classroom through your experiential hands-on experiences in the healthcare setting. And so excited for you and and so proud of you and and what you're doing in in in oncology and and how you're helping patients who are are scared of of the future, scared of the unknown, helping them to navigate that system. And and we need more people like yourself in that system. I'm so so grateful that that that we were able to meet, that that had faith and trust in you as a leader, and that we become the friends that we become in life now. So many, many thanks, uh Naamick, for your time today. I'll share with our listeners that. Book. That was a fantastic recommendation. And I'm leaving it open for maybe a panel discussion on healthcare communications. Because I I truly believe that a lot of us could really benefit from your experience, just a few little things that you shared. And then offline you shared more with me, of course. But from my experience in healthcare, there there needs to be better communications. And this is an old statistic, but I think at one point OSHA, not OSHA, the Joint Commission, which is a regulatory agency and in healthcare, excuse me, I think it was joint commission at one point in time said that 60% of healthcare mistakes or errors are made based on basic communication errors. So we really need to to work on communication. We really need to improve what we're doing. We we have to be careful about assuming that someone else knows what what they're doing or what we're thinking. And but yeah, uh I appreciate you bringing that up. That work that you had done before it was groundbreaking work and and uh hopefully it's it's being shared with others in the healthcare setting. So again, Amy, thank you so much and and and for all of your your talent and your expertise. Thanks for sharing your your travels, uh, three different countries, three different healthcare settings, in addition to the United States, and that you're a better person today for having gone to those countries and and and and helped those people. So thank you, thank you, thank you, and I appreciate it. You too. You have a good day.

Naimik Patel 1:01:31

Thank you.

Dr. H 1:01:33

I want to sincerely thank our guest, Naimik, for his willingness to join us today on the International Service Learning Experiential Medical Education podcast. But most importantly, I want to thank Naimik for the passion that he has shared with us specific to his journey in healthcare. As a student engaged in international service in three different countries, Namek has touched many lives. And as a culturally competent and caring clinical research coordinator in oncology, he has been able to create even more positive outcomes for patients and their families.