Inside International Service Learning With Executive Director Jonathan Birnbaum

A rainy roadside in Costa Rica changed everything. Jonathan Birnbaum watched buses pause for photos and press on, while he and his family stepped out to help. That simple choice grew into International Service Learning, an education-first, healthcare-focused organization that partners with ministries of health and local teams to deliver ethical, hands-on experiences for students, faculty, and professionals.

We dig into how ISL built a model that puts community needs first and learning at the center. Jonathan explains why the organization shifted from general service to medical care, how faculty-led teams became the norm, and what it takes to credential nurses and clinicians so they can legally practice in-country and earn CEUs. You’ll hear the structure of a nine-day trip—from orientation to home visits, mobile clinics, community celebration, and cultural immersion—and the quiet systems that make it work: bilingual translators, vetted kitchens and hotels, and evacuation plans tuned by on-the-ground staff who know the neighborhoods, not just the news.

This conversation unpacks the heart of responsible global health. Instead of chasing big numbers, ISL chooses careful, supervised clinics that uncover root causes like indoor smoke, water safety, and sanitation. We talk scholarships, leader fee waivers, and why airfare is left to travelers so ISL can stay focused on education and safety. Jonathan also shares what’s next: rebuilding post-COVID capacity, expanding specialties, and deepening partnerships with universities and associations to create accessible, high-quality global health programs across Latin America, Africa, and Asia.

Ready to travel, serve, learn? Subscribe for more stories, share this episode with someone who needs a nudge, and leave a review to help others find the show.

Book Recommendation:

1. Where There Is No Doctor - Werner, Thuman, & Maxwell

I also want to thank our listeners for joining us as it is our goal to not only share with you our guest’s introduction to international healthcare, but also to share with you how that exposure to international healthcare has shaped their future path in healthcare. As true patient advocates, we should all aspire to be as well rounded as possible in order to meet the needs of our diverse patient populations. 

As a 50+ year nurse that has worked in quite a variety of clinical roles in our healthcare system, taught healthcare courses for the past 20 years at the university level, and has traveled extensively with my students on international service-learning trips, I can easily attest to the fact that healthcare focused students need, and greatly benefit from the opportunity to have hands-on experiential healthcare experiences in an international setting! I have seen the growth of students post travel as their self-confidence in their newly acquired skillsets, both clinical and cultural, facilitates their ability to take advantage of opportunities that previously may not have been available to them. By rendering care internationally, and stepping outside one's comfort zone, many more doors of opportunity will be opened.

Feel free to check out our website at www.islonline.org, follow us on Instagram @ islmedical, and reach out to me @ DrH@islonline.org

Transcript

Welcome & Guest Introduction

Dr. H 0:11

Well hey there, I am Dr. Patrick Hickey, or Dr. H, as many of my students refer to me. I want to welcome you to another episode of the International Service Learning Experiential Medical Education Podcast. During each episode, I will be interviewing healthcare-focused students and faculty from high school to university that have had an opportunity to participate in an international service learning trip. Additionally, I will be discussing the benefits and challenges to international service with healthcare professionals that have served abroad, as well as industry leaders in healthcare, education, study abroad, spirituality, and those living in the countries being served. I am very excited to have Jonathan Birnbaum as my guest today. Jonathan is the Executive Director of International Service Learning, and it was his company that I used to facilitate my international service learning trips while I was a faculty member at the University of South Carolina. I've been very impressed with ISL's efforts to make a huge difference in the lives of others, and I'm excited to have Jonathan share more with us specific to how ISL came to be, how they work behind the scenes to make these trips work, and what they've done to be an industry leader and logistics providers that do all the hard work to create life-changing experiences for all those that have had the ISL experience.

Dr. H 1:39

Well, I'm very excited today to have with us Jonathan Birnbaum. Jonathan is the Executive Director of International Service Learning (ISL). He's the man, so uh we're we're gonna learn a lot today from Jonathan, and and he wears a lot of hats, but I've been so impressed with Jonathan. I've been working with Jonathan, I think, for probably 15 to 20 years now, through my interactions at the University of South Carolina, and then more recently helping International Service Learning. But but it's been a long-standing relationship and very excited to to hear from Jonathan today. You know, what is ISL? Where did it come from, and and how did it come to be? But Jonathan, before we start all that, if you don't mind, just introduce yourself and let us know who you are and and a little bit about yourself specifically and share that with our with our listeners.

Jonathan 2:27

You betcha. Thanks, Patrick. This is really exciting. We've been wanting to do something like this for years. We've never had the expertise to be able to pull something like this off. So we're super excited to have you leading this and doing this for us. I think it's gonna reach a different group of folks. I think it's gonna really dig deep into what makes the type of organizations like us do what they do, how do they do it, the ones that do it well, and kind of set that standard for what do you look for when you want to travel and do what we do. So thanks for doing that.

Dr. H 2:57

Oh well, I I don't know about the expertise part on that, but but I but I do appreciate that. Yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself, Jonathan, because I I obviously know you much more than than our than our listeners. So I think our listeners would like to see some of the different hats that you wear.

Jonathan 3:12

You betcha. So I originally got involved with this years ago with my father when we went to Costa Rica. Our our our entire family moved to Costa Rica and when I was in when I was in high school, and we got started on doing these kind of small trips with the language institute that my both my parents were going to. So we lived in Costa Rica for a year and a half when I was 15. And we started doing this because we started seeing that there's groups of people going off, doing things that were seen and taking pictures of groups, but not helping people. And so we we saw the need that it was time to get out and you know, stop the bus, stop, you know, stop taking pictures and get out on the ground and start to help the people while you're there. And not, you know, you don't have to do it for uh for a full week, but just these these small trips would go out and they would start to do that. So that that was kind of in my formative years. And so when when I was a teenager, that's that's kind of what got me started in this. And that's when I said was founded, it was 1994. And that's what got me involved. I subsequently went on to college, kind of, you know, my personal background, but you know, after setting that stage, I went on to college. I got my my two degrees. I got one in physics and one in electrical engineering. I ended up joining the Air Force and I became a pilot for the Air Force, and I did that for 16 years. And all the while I was doing that, I was still keeping my hands involved with international service learning. I was running some of the finances, doing some of the rep management for ISL. So I it's it's kind of been in my blood since I was 15. I'm uh I'm almost 47 now, and so it's you know, it's been over 30 years, and it's just been a passion of mine this whole time. So all throughout my Air Force time, I was staying involved with ISL. Then I decided it was time to really get involved and do more. So I left active duty, which is a full-time job, and went to what's called being in the National Guard. So that's kind of a part-time job. So I could still serve and I could still fly for the military, which I did, but then that was that then that allowed me to focus on ISL full-time. So that happened in 2020. 2013, I went full-time and decided to start managing and kind of dedicate the rest of my life to just doing the ISL mission. So um, from then on, it's it's been an incredible journey. I have five children, married to my wife since 2002. We live on a farm in Clayton, Washington. So we're running a farm. I people joke that you know, they they always ask me, what do I raise out here? And it's really a petting zoo, and I raise kids, and that's about it. So it's uh it keeps me busy, but I I I do find time to balance my ISL work, my family, and then I still fly on the side as well. So I I you know, I try to manage it all as best I can, as as as you've seen me do.

Dr. H 5:59

Well, Jonathan, you you sound like one of my students at the university, uh, trying to keep all those balls in the air when you're juggling. Which is it's just uh amazing. And and and Jonathan, I connect with you on so many levels, you know, being a fellow pilot, having was born and raised on a farm myself, and a lot of kids. Uh, we we raised a lot of kids also and a petting zoo, too. What was the just going back to what you said earlier, Jonathan, what was the need that you saw? You said you saw a need when you were living in Costa Rica at an early age. What was that need?

Pivot From Service To Healthcare

Jonathan 6:30

It was, you know, as those who have traveled can attest to the need is incredible. It's it's it's it's unlike anything you see in the United States or kind of a the Western world. We would go on these trips and they called them the paseos, which are just like a way to kind of pass by time. And so these these little paseo trips were offered by the language institute for a chance for families to get out and go to the beach or go do something fun. And so on the way to the beach, they'd stop and take pictures of these super poor communities, take pictures, you know, and then they leave and they go to the beach. And my dad and me and all of him were like, why don't we stop and help? Like, there was there's one specific time that I can remember where we were driving, it was in the rain, and one of the small village huts had collapsed on the side of the road and they were scrambling to get everything going, and everybody drove by and took pictures and they just left. And we're just like we could have stopped five, 10 minutes, maybe helped out, and then just and then we just we still could have gone to the beach, but we could have done something. And so it was that real desire to not just drive through and take a picture, but stop and help. Because when you see other people in need, it doesn't matter where they're at, you know, your first desire should be to help. And there's good ways to help, there's bad ways to help, there's efficient ways to help, you know. So finding a way to help in the best way possible is what we're all about. And so that kind of just sparked that desire to like, you know what, let's not just keep driving, let's go and stop and help. And on the next trip, when my dad led the next one, as the director of the Paseo program there, they stopped and they worked for a whole day in that community and then they went to the beach for three days and came back. And that became a thing, and it became really popular. Everybody wanted to go on these new ones because it's like, wow, we feel really fulfilled that we're not just going to the beach, we're doing something else. And so it caught it just caught on and it became a thing. And that was really the the first kind of the genesis of the whole ISL thing.

Dr. H 8:21

So that's well, that led me to my you're actually leading to my next question. How was ISL created? So it was created by what you just shared.

Jonathan 8:28

Yep. It was founded then. My dad and I, we came back. I was going off to college in the mid to late 90s, and my dad started to offer this to churches and universities. So groups of people, you know, those are typically the two groups that want to travel and help. And so, and the the the church one took off a little bit, but the university one was really popular. And so he worked with Texas AM in South Texas, was it was our very first school that we uh worked with, and they wanted to go. And we we built a trip, and I was a team leader on that first trip, and we went down there and we just kind of learned as we went. You know, we we knew we know where we wanted to go, we had the people in country to help us, but there's a lot of unknowns. I mean, it was a it was a real steep learning curve. But um, after that first trip, you know, it just kind of spread by word of mouth, and then before you know it, other universities wanted to go in the in the University of Texas and that kind of Texas University system, it just kind of spread. And from there on, it just kept growing and growing and growing. So that was our first time.

Dr. H 9:30

In the beginning, Jonathan, was it community building or was it healthcare focused in the beginning?

Jonathan 9:35

You know, it's it's interesting because we had no intention to do medical. I'm not medical, I don't have a medical background. My father is a Lutheran pastor, doesn't have a medical background. None of us wanted to do medical, but when you show to a village, you're like, hey, we're here to help. What they want to do is say, that's great, but my kids are sick. Do you have anything you can help my kids with? Or I have this cold. I can't work. Can you help me out with this cold? And so we we we very quickly learned that you might have an intention to go and like build a playground or dig a septic system. But if they're unhealthy or they're sick, that's what they want done. And that's the first need, that's the most acute need that they have. And so we very quickly learned to pivot and focus on healthcare first because that's what they needed and that's what they wanted. So by by by necessity, it kind of became our our focus.

Dr. H 10:25

Well, I appreciate that it was uh Texas AM. I'm an alum of Texas AM. So that's how it started. Yeah. What are your so it it began as as community focus and then it switched, as you shared, to to healthcare focus. Who are your target groups now that that you focus on? Like who who benefits the most from the ISL experience?

Who ISL Serves Today

Jonathan 10:45

Yeah, it's it's been a really neat kind of growth pattern that we've seen over the last 30 years. We started early on by going to universities and just getting students to sign up. It wasn't really a focus on faculty. It was more a focus on, hey, if you want to travel, come with us and we'll go. And so it was just groups of students from different classes, different backgrounds, sometimes different universities would sign up with us. And it worked, it worked really good because it was a chance for us to get them all together and get them on the same page and go and learn. And then we started having faculty that said, hey, I'd like to do this with you, but make it part of my curriculum, part of my courseware that I have. And so that bred a whole nother group of challenges for us because now we had to look at things like the need, the kind of the needs and wants of the faculty, not just what we wanted to do, but what they wanted to do. We also had to look at risk management and insurance and finance, because now when you involve faculty, you involve the university system. And so that that was a slow growth process. We used to do 90% what we call open teams, which are just the students, and about 10% faculty-led teams. That's completely flipped in the last 30 years. It is now 90% faculty, 10% open teams. And I attribute that kind of transition to more the fact that we've gotten better at what we do, and we focus intently on education and medical. And so by blending that, we've been able to really drill down and kind of carve a niche out for ourselves as the provider for the best medical teams that we have. And we have a lot of groups that come to us for help over the years. There's there's there's other groups that do what we do, but they can't do medical because it is a very intensive, very, very kind of a niche thing that we offer.

Dr. H 12:32

It is, you're right, it is very unique. And if you're gonna do healthcare, you've got to really focus on healthcare and all the various aspects of healthcare. So 90% faculty and 10% uh independent student cohorts now. Wow, quite a shift.

Jonathan 12:46

That's it's completely flipped. And and this has been, you know, it's been a slow growth, but probably the biggest flip has been in the last 10 years. We've seen it completely go to where we had a ton of open teams to now it's just mainly driven by faculty and universities.

Dr. H 13:01

So, Jonathan, speaking about that, because I work with a lot of independent uh student cohorts, what are the challenges for an independent student cohort as opposed to a faculty-led trip, or or are there challenges? What is why why the big jump with 90% faculty and only 10% independent student cohorts?

Jonathan 13:18

You know, I think a lot of it is is not just the fact that it's a lack of interest from the students. There's still the same excitement as you've seen, the same excitement at every campus we go to. They're all thrilled to go. The problem is a lot of the universities are exerting more control over what the students do and where they go because of risk management. So risk management has taken over a lot of the university settings in the sense that they don't want their students traveling without them knowing where they're going and what they're doing, which has then led to offices of global health, global engagement kind of taking over that realm. And then they educate the students. Hey, if you want to travel, make sure you go through one of our providers or through one of our approved providers. And so we've seen that shift happen. And I think that's what's driven a lot of it is the universities want to kind of make sure that they have their hand on the safety of the students. And so that's driven a lot of this.

Dr. H 14:09

Now, Jonathan, over the years, I've seen that the majority of your work is with undergrad uh college or university students. Have you had occasion to have high school students andor graduate level students?

Jonathan 14:20

We have. They offer a whole set of new challenges. Obviously, for high school kids, we have to have chaperones because we need a lot more hands-on. Uh, but we do a lot of high school students. Uh, we've recently, with your help, we've relaunched our graduate program. So that's really exciting for us because that's kind of taking our standard ISL program and just taking it up a whole nother notch to where they can get in, use the knowledge that they've had, whether it's a fourth-year grad student or a different specialty, and they can get into the hospital with our connections with our staff and really use that healthcare knowledge in our community. So that's a new and exciting program for us.

Dr. H 14:55

Now, Jonathan, in addition to healthcare-focused students, do you have opportunities for healthcare professionals?

Jonathan 15:02

Absolutely. We started in 2015, we had something that we started to offer for continuing education credits for professionals. And so right now it's for nurses, and but we do want to focus on that because there's a lot of faculty that want to come back or even groups where we had offices of doctors and dentists that want to come with us and and travel. And so we've been able to offer this as kind of a cherry on top of where they can come and serve, do all the exciting stuff, but then they also get the benefit of knocking out some of these CEU credits. So we do love it when they come because as a professional, one of the unique things that we offer is we can take your credentials and send it to our staff overseas. They'll work to get the Ministry of Health to kind of get you credentialed in country. So when you come on our team, you can show up and you can work full-time as a registered nurse in that country, as a registered ENT or any other certification that you have, we can get that in the country that you go to. And so that to me is a huge benefit, not only not only to the community, but to us, because we have a team of professionals that hit the ground running and they're ready to go. And they can do a lot more than a group of students who it's more of an educational focus.

Dr. H 16:10

Well, that's great to know. Uh, I can share over the years, I've had many, many nursing faculty and and nursing colleagues have shared with me that they would have loved to go on these trips, but they did not know if they would be able to work in the capacity as a nurse or as a physician. But according to what you're saying, through the Ministry of Health, you're able to work with their licensure and they're able to function in that capacity.

Jonathan 16:31

Absolutely. And it it takes time and it takes we use our connections because we have a long history in a lot of these countries. So we we we work with them to get them to the level that they can practice in the country that they go to. So, you know, we we always ask them a a couple months in advance to send us all the credentialing paperwork and then we we kind of go through that process with them.

Dr. H 16:50

Jonathan, uh, tell us about a standard nine-day trip, you know, the the ISL experience. How does it start? Well, even before the nine-day in country, how does it start? How does somebody that looks at your website sees an opportunity, how does it go from looking at your website to making a connection with your staff to actually going in country? What's what's that whole process?

Professionals, CEUs & Licensing

Jonathan 17:10

Yeah, so we try to make it as easy as possible because I think we what we hear a lot of feedback is it's it's it's kind of a daunting thing to go and say, wow, I want to travel overseas, I don't know where to start. And so we we we try to lead you down the road and make it easy by saying, all right, if you know where you where you want to go or you know what you want to do, you know, think about one of those two things and either pick a program or pick a country and start from there. And then you can figure out what time you want to travel. And so our website kind of walks you through, okay, I want to go to say, I want to go to Costa Rica and I want to go during spring break. So I I kind of know what I want to do, but I'm not really sure exactly how I want to do it. We focus in on the different options in that country. So once you go to the website, you can look at do I want to do physical health, do or sorry, physical therapy or dental or nursing, and you can pick what you want to do. If even if you don't know, you can do something that we call global health, which is kind of a mishmash of just going out and helping people with the basic medical needs that they have. And you can have no training, you can have lots of training, but you you'll you will get to work in country based on your level of training that you have. So we're never going to put you in a position where you're working outside the realm of direct supervision from our local doctors and the ministry of health or doing something that you don't feel comfortable doing. So a lot of that for a first year might be just basic triage, blood pressure, intake, talking, you know, talking to the patients and working with the doctor, doing the pharmacy. And so once you, if if if you have that in mind, what you want to see and what you want to learn, then you can select that. And if you don't, we encourage you to do the global health. You can sign up. And once that button is pressed, that you want to join the team or you're interested in joining a team like that, we then we will reach back out to you and talk to you more about okay, we see you want to do global health in Costa Rica. Here's a team that we have. If it's an open team, is it a faculty-led team? And then from there, we get you in touch with our staff. And as you know, we have a robust staff of what we call team managers, and they will work with you personally on getting the team in the program designed so that it fits all your needs. So if it's a student, it's gonna be easy. It'll just be kind of our boilerplate. Here we're gonna go, we're gonna do some hard work. When we're gonna work with our communities, we're gonna do some recreation days and go from there. But if there's something special you want to do, a certain place you want to see or certain recreation day or a certain type of medical experience that you'd like to see, we can work with you to see if that's available in the country that you want to go to.

Dr. H 19:35

And that's great. I I love that that ISL will customize a trip according to your needs. And and the end, going back to a standard nine-day trip, and a lot of the uh guests that have been on have talked a little bit about it, but basically, nine-day trip, they fly in on a Saturday, Sunday, a full day of orientation, Monday morning or all day Monday doing home visits, clinics all during the week, usually set up in a church or a hospital uh school or a community center, day of celebration with the community on Friday, a recreation day on Saturday, and then they're they're back home on Sunday. It's like a whirlwind experience, but there's a lot to be done. And and I'm glad you shared, you know, even a first-year student going down that has no clinical skills at all will be trained by a doctor, by a healthcare team how to how to accurately take blood pressures, vital signs, and and assess the patient.

Jonathan 20:26

Yeah, and you know, and and you kind of got it nailed down there. We try to make it so this is your first taste of service overseas. This doesn't have to be a huge commitment. Like if you want to go to the Peace Corps, you're going for months at a time. We just ask you to take seven days or nine days off, go overseas and try it out. And for some people, it just ignites a fire under them and they want to do more, they want to see more, they want to help more. For others, it's like, man, that was amazing. It changed my life, but maybe it's not what I, you know, I that was good, you know, and you don't know until you try. And so we encourage you to go out and try. Use that nine-day experience as your first step. And that might be first step towards a whole mountain that you're going to climb later, or it just might be your first steps to say, I I I love serving and I did what I could, but you won't know until you try. And so we always encourage people, you know, these short-term medical programs are really important because it gives you a glimpse into what's uh, you know, to what kind of options are out there. So super important.

Dr. H 21:21

To that point, one of our guests in a podcast was uh Chrissy Falpo. And Chrissy had been in the Peace Corps and she shared that these short-term medical mission trips that ISL puts on is very similar to a Peace Corps experience. And if you ever wondered if you if if you were made or set up for the Peace Corps, going on one of these trips, and and and as you said, if something ignites you, maybe that is a future role because as you shared, I think a lot of people are trying to figure out what they want to do, whether they want to be a nurse, a doctor, a dentist, etc., or or even joining the Peace Corps and coming on one of these trips and and having that fire lit. That that's huge.

Jonathan 22:01

Yeah, and and and we find that it's it's a big enough kind of bite that you can take where it's not too daunting and it's accessible, you know, because a lot of people that that will go on our trips, they might not know exactly what they want to do. They might they might not even know if they want to be in the medical field, but when they go on a medical team, it really gives them a taste for what it might be. And we hear time and time again what a life-changing experience it is that they got to see this for the first time when they just love it, or they might be like, Wow, I don't like that. I you know, I I kind of like the the pharmacy parts that I did. I you know, I kind of like that part more. And so it just gives you a chance to be exposed to lots of different things.

Dr. H 22:37

So and it's that exposure that that can help confirm this is what I want to do in life. But if you don't go, you don't know.

Jonathan 22:44

That's right.

Dr. H 22:44

Yeah, what a wonderful opportunity. Jonathan, one fear I hear from students that are going on the trip is that of language. You know, talk to us about how do you take care of that fear of language. If a student's never traveled to a Latin American country, should they know medical Spanish already?

How A Trip Is Built

Jonathan 23:00

Yeah, you know, and we get that quite a bit because Spanish, you know, if if you don't know, a lot of people in the United States don't have a second language. And you can be very, you know, it can be hard to go and kind of put yourself in the position where you don't speak the local language. And so we we've kind of made sure that we keep that part down to the the lowest possible threat. So where you show up, you're not gonna be you know expected to go out and kind of just flounder. We're we have staff there all around you. We have translators on every team. All of our staff are bilingual. Our country coordinators are all bilingual and they're working with you hand in hand. And as you know, as a Spanish speaker, medical Spanish is different than normal Spanish. We even have people who are fluent in Spanish that come from a Spanish background, they go over this and they go overseas with us and they don't know any of these medical terms because they're completely foreign. It's a completely different offshoot of Spanish. And so even to the in even to the native speakers, it you know, it can be pretty daunting. So we all of our staff and our translators are trained in medical Spanish where they can work with you. We have translator sheets that you can use for the basic phrases, and someone is there to hold your hand through the whole process. If you if you can't speak Spanish, fantastic, you're gonna be way ahead. But if you don't, we're gonna be right there with you and you're gonna pick up some Spanish along the way, and you're also gonna be working with those around you who all speak English. So, and then if it's also something where you don't want to go to a Spanish-speaking country because it's just too daunting, we always have English-speaking countries like Tanzania and Belize.

Dr. H 24:27

So lots of opportunities. Jonathan, how do you how do you pick the countries where you serve? What's that process? Because right now I believe ISL has 11 countries that they serve.

Jonathan 24:37

11 countries. It varies based, uh, COVID kind of cut a few of them off of our list based on how you know, kind of how open the country was and how quickly we could get back in. But we we try to base a lot of our decisions on on need and the availability of our contacts so we can work with the government. Because part of the problem is we don't want to ever show up to a country and just do our do our own thing. We want to make sure we're we're we're really plugged in to the locals, to the healthcare system that's already there. Because what you don't want to do is show up and do something on the fringe. And if there's any issues with the patients that you treat, they'll show up to the local to the local doctors, and then they have no idea what's going on. And so we always want to make sure we're in good communication, in close contact with local health, with all the local healthcare providers and the ministry of health in every country that we go to. So a lot of that hinges on the type of contact that we have. And so we'll, we, we get a ton of recommendations and requests every year from groups that work overseas or a lot of nonprofit groups that are doing fantastic work. Some of them are good fits for us, others, it just doesn't really fit too well. Um, but we look at these and we kind of triage based on the need, the desire, how far it is, how much a program might cost, how how easily we can get in there and start to really plant the seed because what we want to do is be in there and be in there long term. We don't want to show up for one trip and be done. We we we want to show up there, start our relationships, and then continually show up year after year and do teams. So it can be very challenging. We've we've had, as you've seen, we've had countries where we start a program and then it becomes a level four travel or a level three. And universities being uh being being very risk adverse, they won't let teams go. And so we've had great programs that just atrophy because of political unrest or other issues. And so we have to always kind of close one. We try to open others, and so we have to have a big enough pot that we can always have teams that can go to. So that's also part of the thing that we looked at.

Dr. H 26:35

Well, that's a that's a good segue, Jonathan, into my next question about the US State Department and the travel advisory. What tell us a little bit about how you monitor political unrest and and what those resources are and and how it makes a difference and whether you allow a team to go on a trip or not.

Jonathan 26:52

Yeah, that that that's one of the most important parts of what we do is, you know, by offering these programs, we have to be the ones that know best. And so what we rely on heavily is our kind of boots on the ground, is you know, our locals that live in country, they're the first line of defense. They will tell us there's any issues at all because that oftentimes that's very local. If it's in the, you know, say it's in Belize City, there's some unrest, or there's some, there's a couple riots, or there's something that's going on that might not make the news, but our staff can be like, hey, this is really kind of sketchy. We don't, you know, we don't think we should be doing teams right now. We can pass that information on and compare that to what we get from the State Department. And we also have an account with the Overseas Security Advisory Council. And through that, we get updates on all the countries that we go to. And that allows us to kind of paint the picture for the areas that are go, no, go for each for each country. And if it gets to the point where we have to pull the plug and cancel teams, then we will do that. And we've actually done that in the past to where whether it's violence from political unrest, uh, hurricanes that come through that kind of knock out a lot of the support systems, but we've had to make those decisions before based on local knowledge and information from the United States government. So we we kind of pull that all together and make sure that we can make a good decision.

Dr. H 28:08

Well, again, you you led to my next question and you kind of alluded to it. What if you had to evacuate students from a country? I mean, do you have a process or a game plan for each trip?

Safety, Risk & Evacuation Planning

Jonathan 28:20

Absolutely. So we you know, being a military guy, I kind of uh I I I cheat a little bit and I use there's a there's a handbook. It's called uh the Air Force Emergency Management Guide. And I used that years ago. And I I actually built an ISL booklet. It's our disaster preparedness handbook, and I built that based off uh the military's handbook for how do you handle an emergency overseas. And so with that, we've built kind of basically our it's a it's an it's it's a preparedness information manual that talks about terrorism, hurricanes, volcanoes, things we've all seen overseas, and how do we handle those things? And so we've built a program based on that, which is all open sourced from the government, uh, to kind of prevent, prepare, respond, and recover. So those four things are how we do it. Obviously, the first one is to prevent. If, and like we talked about earlier, if there's something going on in the country that we can prevent and avoid, that's what we're gonna do first. Is we're just not gonna go to the areas, we're gonna stay in those green zones that provide us safety and a way to get out if something were to go bad. If we're in there and something does happen, well, our preparation will help by getting us out of there and then we respond to it. And we've had to do it before. We've had teams that were in Belize where a hurricane comes through and we thought they were gonna get done in plenty of time. The hurricane turns south and it comes in, and we've had to evacuate people before. And it's not easy, but we've done it. And as long as we have our staff on the ground there to hold everybody's hand and make sure it's done right, it goes really smoothly. So we've never had any issues with that.

Dr. H 29:52

Well, while we're talking about safety, another question I have from students is about the hotels and the food. Yeah, you know, they're kind of sort of. Kind of sort of concerned about safety and the hotels or the accommodations and and also food. That's always a big topic. Oh, yes. Is the food going to be safe? And and what do you say to those concerns?

Jonathan 30:11

I say that's probably the most important thing. That's that's what I worry about whenever I travel. I don't want to be sick because you you can do the best preparedness for any emergency and volcanoes and terrorism. And if you get sick on the trip, that all goes out the window because now you're having a miserable time, you're stuck in a foreign country, got a stomachache. So our approach to that is at all costs to prevent that. And so we do that by having our staff locally go to every place that we go to, bottled water, making sure the cleanliness is up to the standards that we would expect when you go overseas and making sure that they're not using foods that they shouldn't, that they're that they're preparing the food in a clean area. And so we inspect all the kitchens, we look at everything, we look at the water and the ice and the fruit and make sure everything is good to go. And we get the occasional bout because someone's licking their fingers when they're on the road or something, but we have a very low incidence of being sick on the road. And a lot of the competitors that we are, you know, not really competitors, but but folks that do what we do, it's it's it's it's not like that. And it can be it can get pretty ugly when you get a whole team of sick people. So we we work really hard to make sure that we don't put people in a bad position, that everything that they get overseas is safe and secure and it's been vetted by us.

Dr. H 31:20

And Jonathan, my experience has been that ISL staff usually stay in the hotel. What about safety of the hotel and safety of the students when they go out at night or walk around? Speak to us about that.

Jonathan 31:30

So another important part is, like you said, it's the security aspect of where we go. And so we we take the same amount of pre of precautions and work prior to the team's arrival into the food as we do with the lodging. And so we make sure our staff they they visit all the lodging, we have relationships with all the lodging facilities so we can inspect them to make sure that it's up to the standards of our program. That means it's not in an unsafe place, that there's food and there's stuff that's close by, that's accessible, that's in the safe area, that there's places that's to store our belongings when you leave to go on your team. It's not going to be in any kind of danger when you leave the room, that we know the staff, and that goes to the cleaning staff and to the cooks at the place that you're at. So we go and we talk to everybody and make sure everything's on the level. Because what we don't want to have is you go on a team and you come back and all your stuff is gone, or there's people outside that are harassing you. And so we we go to very big lengths to make sure that that's all been addressed.

Dr. H 32:30

So now, Jonathan, what about scholarships? Again, another question I get from students is yeah, you know, I want to go on this experience. It sounds like it's great, but I really can't afford it. Yeah. What does ISL do to try to help students in that regard?

Jonathan 32:44

That's that's probably one of the biggest speed bumps that we come across when you're talking to folks that want to go is the price because you're gonna pay thousands of dollars to go overseas, and that doesn't include airfare. So you're looking at a big chunk of money and and and that's no small thing. So we we always try as hard as we can to give resources out to those to raise money, or we offer a couple, as you uh said, a few scholarships of our own. And we and we really hope to grow those over the years to make it so we can have a bigger pot of money. And we do that through the what we we have a nonprofit called the ISL Foundation, and when we're just starting to kind of get some legs under it to get it to grow. And our hope and dream over the years is to grow it so that we have an endowment in the nonprofit big enough that we can offer bigger and more scholarships for those who want to go. Part of that's gonna be reaching out to our alumni and asking for those, you know, who have gone on to become doctors and nurses and dentists and say, hey, can you give back and maybe give some money to help those who were in your position 20 years ago who want to go out and serve? And so that's the dream. But we we do currently offer a media kind of a scholarship where we can give some money so you can take pictures, whether it's Instagram live or do some videos for us that that that we can use. And we also have a needs base that we do where we ask you to write a couple essays and let us know kind of, you know, hey, I'm having some some financial trouble. I really want to go on this trip, but here's here's the hurdles I'm looking at. And we can often take that and look at ways that we can help out. And we've never said no to anybody. We always try to help and work with them any way that we can to get them on the road because it's such a you know, it's it's not just a tourism type trip. I mean, this is really a a life-changing thing, and so we know how exciting it is, and we we always work really hard to get folks all the resources that you know.

Dr. H 34:31

And Jonathan, you also promote leadership too. You have a scholarship specific to leadership. How does that work?

Jonathan 34:37

So, yeah, we also we also work with you, you mean like for the leaders of our uh teams?

Dr. H 34:42

Correct. When they when they when they coordinate X number of students to go with them, that leaders in country fair is waived.

Jonathan 34:49

Yes, and so we we have a way that we go to get people to work, kind of do kind of a lot of the grunt work for building a program is gonna be getting the word out, whether it's having a pizza party and sitting down and talking to students that are interested in going, or it's or if it's the faculty who have to go and they have information sessions as part of their classroom, we try to kind of pay back a little bit to that time that you're gonna give to us to help build that team. And we offer basically a free, we we will waive the program fees for every 12 volunteers you get on your team. And we actually prorate that too. So if you get six people, that's half off. If you get 12 people, you're you're you know, you're gonna go for free. And that's just a way of saying thank you because you've done a lot of work to get those 12 kids ready to go. And so that's kind of a way that we have to kind of take that off the you know, take that that that financial piece off the table to make it easier.

Food, Lodging & On‑The‑Ground Care

Dr. H 35:42

So well, having having planned roughly 15 years of of trips, uh I I know it is a lot of work, but God bless for all the assistance that ISL does, because I think the typical faculty member when they're leading a trip, they're they're doing the brunt of the work themselves. Oh, yes. If they're not using somebody like International Service Learning or they've got a friend in the country or a family member, but boy, from the faculty perspective, that that's a heck of a lot of work that you have to do. It's thank God. Thank God for logistics providers or affiliates like yourself that provide all that. And Jonathan, when we're talking about that, why does I sell not include airfare on their trips?

Jonathan 36:18

So we dabbled in airfare years ago. We tried that in the 90s, and it was a disaster because we spent more time coordinating airfare than we did on program building because it was so hard to work with the airlines, get everybody on the same on the same schedule. And so we decided it was a lot easier for us to focus on what we do best, which is not being a travel agency, but being a program services and educational provider. And so we've turned that over. We have we have we have easy guidelines that we say here, here's your here's your window. We want you to to arrive and we will and we will work with you on finding you good airfare, group rates. I mean, we can give a lot of information out. We just don't do the booking because it's become just uh you know very challenging to do that. And sometimes the students they'll book they'll book six months out, and other times they'll book two weeks out. And prices vary, and it was just really hard for us because we've had people that want to drop out on the last minute. And so it's it's just more flexible for the traveler to do it on their own with our help. So we will hold your hand through that process, but we don't do the bookings anymore.

Dr. H 37:22

Jonathan, you mentioned either competitors or or people that do similar to what you do. When a student's looking at an international service learning trip, why would they choose international service learning as compared to some of the others that do the same as what you do? How do how do they make that choice?

Jonathan 37:41

It you know, if they've never traveled, it can be challenging because you might look at a website and it looks really good and it looks like a really fun activity. But I I, you know, I can promise you, as someone who's been on some of these other other types of programs and hearing a lot and heard a lot of stories for folks that go with these other outfits, a lot of the focus is on tourism. It's on going overseas to have fun, to party, to go do some of the touristy type things, but really getting into a community and really offering help takes a lot of work. And it's work all year round. It's not something you can just show up from out of country and hit the ground and do. It's something you have to work with. And like a country like Belize, they don't allow any nonprofit or non-governmental organization to do anything in country that has to do with healthcare without the explicit approval of the government. We've been working with that government for over 20 years, and so we are in the system. But if you're not in that system, it's illegal to show up. And you're not even gonna put yourself at risk, you're gonna put your volunteers at risk and the community at risk by doing something that's not on their radar. So it's, I think people kind of tend to not really understand how big of a footprint you need to have in every country to really get a program that's safe, that will actually provide you with some actual healthcare opportunities, and it's gonna get you not sick when you go to the restaurants and to the lodging. And so there's there's a lot of legwork that has to happen before that. You can't just show up. It really, you know, and from what we see, you have to have a local staff there working all year long to make these programs possible.

Dr. H 39:10

So And the one thing I I see in my experience with ISL is what I call the ISL model, the teaching model, where the physician takes his or her time with the students to do a head-to-toe exam and explain everything that's going on. So it's it's a slow pace, but it's a learning environment, as opposed to other students I've spoken to that have gone with other groups where they pride themselves on having seen a thousand patients in one week. And in my mind, I'm thinking, what did you really learn if you saw a thousand patients in one week? So the ISL model, you know, being a teacher myself, I really appreciate that that they do take the time to drill down and work with the students at their level, because a lot of times these physicians, they don't know whether they're med students or nurses or uh freshmen or seniors, and they and they try to educate them as best they can at a level that the student will understand, knowing that these students don't have a whole lot of medical experience. And I think that really makes ISL stand out.

Funding, Scholarships & Leader Perks

Jonathan 40:10

Yeah, and and that's something that we learned early on was that we would see these kind of these kind of a it's more of a Big Ten operation where they show up and they just put up all the signs and say, okay, everybody come in and sit, and it's just a madhouse. And we and you would look out and you see women and children out in the tropical sun waiting to get seen by a doctor for hours and these long lines, and then you get five minutes with the doctor, and it's not really going to treat the root cause of something that's going on. So to really understand what the problem is, you you have to sit there and you have to take your time, you have to talk to them. Everybody, you know, all of us want to sit down with a doctor and have them listen and not just say, okay, here's some medicine. Go, go, go. You you want to say, well, this is why I'm sick, you know. Maybe it's because I'm I am I'm doing some cooking in the house and there's smoke everywhere. So my lungs are constantly full of smoke, or there's a there's some raw sewage going to the, you know, into the river and I'm washing my clothes right downstream from it. You know, I mean, there's a lot more that goes into it. And so we try to look at the whole picture, and that takes time. That's not something you can just do in five minutes. You really have to sit down with the patient and go over it. And yeah, you're right. You might only see a hundred patients, but when you do that 30 times per year in that country, now you're gonna see 3,000 folks in you know, instead of trying to do 3,000 on one trip, let's break that up and do it over a whole year.

Dr. H 41:23

So now, Jonathan, it's been my understanding that some of these people, when they're seen by the ISL teams, that's the only medical care that they have for the entire year. Is that correct?

Jonathan 41:33

Yeah, absolutely. We we actually had a partnership with the Belizean government before the COVID shutdown. Um, and we're kind of building back up to it, but we were the only health care provided in uh the lower third of that country to where the government would say, okay, we need you to go to this village and do this. And so we they would give us the timetable for where we wanted to go, and we would coordinate our teams based on the guidance for the Ministry of Health and all the health care that they saw was through ISL. And that to us was a triumph because that made us to where we were doing long-term care. We were not only doing acute treatments, we were doing stuff that would go for years and years. And so we would get to see them get better. We'd see these villages kind of get brought up to where they were dealing with fungal infections and parasites, and they got rid of that. Now they're doing doing the more long, you know, long-term kind of kind of kind of chronic treatments. And so it was really rewarding for us to be a part of that. And that's kind of our goal is to get to the point where we we see a community to the point that they have all the healthcare, the acute problems treated, and now we're moving on to the other stuff, and we can hand them off to the to the to the local healthcare system. So that was a really neat thing for us to do, and we're and we are we are working back to that in Belize, but there's a lot of countries where we have to go to, and that makes it so we have to make sure we're there multiple times per year. We can't skip a year and we can't not show up. So all these responsibility.

Dr. H 42:58

All these countries you serve have healthcare systems. Yes. Is it just a challenge with the healthcare system that the people are rural and they don't have access to care?

Jonathan 43:06

Absolutely. So, I mean, that's the big thing is it's not only access, it's the ability to get there. And so, what you know, you might have you know technical access to a hospital that's paid for by the government downtown, but you can't take off time for your work because you got to feed your family and you're working 12 hours per day out in the field. And so these folks, they don't have the they don't have the luxury to take the time to go see a doctor. And so by bringing that system to them, now you've opened up the world of accessibility of healthcare to them, and you see people that would never get to see a doctor. And so that's why, like, like you said, we built this model to where we take the clinics to the communities because now you're gonna touch all the people that really need the care that can't get to it versus the people that have the ability to travel and go and get the healthcare. So that was a big, you know, that that was a big program shift for us years ago.

Dr. H 43:57

I know myself personally, I've picked up a lot of skill sets from the doctors that I've met on my ISL trips. And and I tell my students all the time to observe the healthcare team that you're working with and look how they connect with the patients. And it's so different in Latin America where the doctor, he or she takes her time to get to know the patient. Tell me about your how's your husband doing? How are the kids? What's their names again? You know, very personable before they even ask about their medical situation, right? Which is really nice. I mean, I like that. And I see a lot of my students picking up those same habits and taking them forward with them as they become future doctors. Now, Jonathan, is is an ISL trip a one and done, or or do students come back for second or third times?

Jonathan 44:41

I mean, that's that's the whole dream is that we get them back again and again. And we we calculated it one year. We we had over a 20% return rate, where 20% of our volunteers were back for a second or third time. We've had students back for five or more teams. And that to me is a testament to the program because not only do they get to come back and do something different, but they get to come back and do something that they've that they've grown to know and trust that we're gonna provide a really solid program. So to me, that's probably the biggest feather in my cap is having so many students that want to come back again and again and again.

Dr. H 45:14

Maybe it's the maybe it's the good food down there, John.

Jonathan 45:18

You you can't blame them. And the cool part is they can go to all different, you know, all different types of places. So they might go to Costa Rica one year and then go to Panama and then go to Mexico and believe so that they can hop around, but the programs and all the quality is gonna be, you know, you're gonna recognize the ISL program in every country. Obviously, the cultural flavors are gonna be different, and that's what makes it fun, but you're gonna recognize the same standard of care that we're gonna provide in each of our clinics.

Dr. H 45:42

So, Jonathan, I imagine nursing or global health might be the majority of your programs. Tell us a little bit about the other specialty programs that you have for the other healthcare focused.

Why ISL Over Other Providers

Jonathan 45:52

Man, over the years, Patrick, we've done so many different programs. We've done physical therapy, we've done dental, we've done a program called Hike for Humanity, where we got a backpacking group together and they packed up all the medicines and the doctor, and they went out into the rainforest and they hiked for two days to a small village to provide care and come back. We've done uh boats down rivers to go provide care. We've done a lot of different other medical types of type of specialties like pharmacy and all the different types of nursing that we've provided. And we also have done non-medical stuff too. I mean, we do a lot of medical, that's kind of our bread and butter, but we've done a lot of non-medical. We've done wells where we put in water wells and septic systems with with with with some of our service teams. We provided educational programs where we go to go to schools and we help them. So we've we've kind of dabbled in a lot of different types of programs, but we always kind of, you know, our core is always health care. And that's kind of what we always go back to. You know, and and we're we're we're good at all of it, but that's what we're really good at.

Dr. H 46:51

So Jonathan, what recommendations, excuse me, would you have for students that are hesitant about travel to another country to render care? The the students that's sitting on the fence, and I kind of sort of think I want to go, but I'm scared. I've never been out of the country. What would you what would you share with that student to help them to see the bigger picture?

Jonathan 47:10

You know, for us, the the one thing we hear is how life-changing the trip is. And when they go and they do it, it's it's it's easy to kind of sit it out and just say, well, maybe I'll go next time, or it's just a little bit too, you know, it's a little bit too big for me to try to, you know, to try to tackle right now. I really encourage everybody just to give it a, you know, give it a shot. Try it, you know, and do something small, seven to nine days. It's it's not a huge commitment of your time, but it's big enough that you're gonna be able to sink your teeth into the program and really learn and find something that you might love. And it's it absolutely, it sounds very cliche, but it is life-changing for everybody involved. Um, you're gonna find things about yourself. You're gonna find things out about yourself that you never knew. And helping others always brings out the best in you. So if you're on the fence, give it a shot. Uh, we are we we will make all the logistics easy. We will, we will hold your hand through the whole process and make it so that when you come back, uh you'll want to do it, you know, a second and third time. But we will make it easy for you and we'll keep it very safe.

Dr. H 48:06

I always share with my students uh before we go on the trip that the life they may change might be their own. And and you speak to that. That's true. I mean, I I see a huge difference in students when they come back. And that's the whole genesis for this podcast is I've been hearing it, you've been hearing it for years, this passion that students have. And you can't capture that on a on an Instagram reel or or a picture on Facebook. So that's that's how this podcast was developed to let's hear from the people that have been in country. We've been very fortunate to have students that have traveled with ISL 12, 15 years ago that are now accomplished physicians working in their practice and advanced practice nurses and physical therapists who are reflecting back on the experience and all of them to a T have been sharing. I can connect the dots. It was because of this experience. This is why I'm here today. And that's huge. That's great. And and Jonathan, where do you see ISL going? What what what's the future of ISL? And are there themes that are going on right now in in study abroad or in healthcare? And what what do you perceive that ISL needs to do to be right there and on the on the front end of where healthcare is going?

Education Model & Year‑Round Care

Jonathan 49:15

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. We're really trying to position ourselves to be at the forefront of overseas education when it comes to medical teams. And we're we're we're doing things like developing training protocols for the kind of the triadic relationship that we have from our translators and the patient and the and the doctor. We're doing the CEU programs, we're working with all of our countries and the Ministry of Health to find out what the need are and or what the needs are and how do we address those needs. And so we're we're really trying to grow our base on the education side by providing more to our faculty, because now that's the majority of what we do by giving the faculty more tools, whether it's how do you build a curriculum or how can we help you build a program that kind of brings us into the fold, or if it's a student saying, hey, how do I expose you to more specialties overseas so you can see and kind of try out these different things and see maybe that's what you want to do is this thing versus this, you know? And so we we're we're really trying to build the base back up. And obviously, COVID-19 was a huge challenge for us. It shut us down for years, for almost two years. And so we're building back from that. We're gonna come back a lot stronger in the sense that we've learned a lot of lessons going into COVID on how we respond and how to build a robust infrastructure in every country that ran. Because one of the cool parts about us is even after two years, all of our staff in all of our countries came back with us. They were all there ready to go and serve because for them, it's not just a job, it's serving my country, my community. And so they were all back online. And a lot of the staff that we've had have been with us for over for over 20 years. And I think that's a testament to our work that we're doing because it's, you know, it's it's more about the mission, about what we're trying to do. And so we're gonna grow that. We're looking at new countries, we're gonna obviously focus on our Spanish-speaking country because that's kind of our, you know, that's where our, you know, our first love is there. But we're growing out and we're doing Africa, we're doing Cambodia, we're doing India, we're, we're, we're doing some programs in Southeast Asia. You know, we're we're gonna look at some other parts of the world and try to spread out because we have a lot of schools that travel with us for years and they want to keep going and they want to do something different. And so we're gonna have options that they can see and do the ISO program in a different type of setting. And so we're excited to grow that and keep doing the same great job that we you know that we've been for over 30 years now.

Dr. H 51:34

So and Jonathan, as you grow, I've I've noticed on your website that you've got, I think under the partnerships page, you've got over a thousand relationships you've had with universities and with organizations, and and you're working on developing some of those organizations, professional ones at this time. Is that correct?

Jonathan 51:52

That's a great point. Yeah. So a lot of the work that we're doing here in the US is really bringing those relationships closer. We've we've been talking to the National Student Nurses Association, we've been talking to A1, which is a neonatal healthcare type of organization, to the Rotary. There's there's there's there's there's a lot of industry leaders that have relationships with us that we're and we're we're we're really trying to build those back up and build them even stronger. So you're exactly right. That's in the US, that's what we're doing is we're is we're trying to build our outreach to get those who maybe not have not heard that there is someone like us in this area that can help with them. And we're also trying to reach out to more universities because we've worked with thousands of universities, but every time we find a new school, they have no idea. They're like, wow, we didn't know there was something like you out there, you know, that that can do all the hard work for me and make it so I can focus on my class and not do all this other stuff. And so that's what we do. And getting the word out is a big part of it. So you're exactly right. The more we can do in the US, it's just gonna strengthen our programs overseas.

Dr. H 52:53

Well, case in point, I was at a nursing conference, uh NSNA nursing conference recently and did a presentation for faculty. And a few of them were greatly surprised by the fact that ISL will do everything for them. In other words, you you take care of everything from as soon as the student steps out of customs at the airport until you get back on the plane and everything in between, which which is a huge relief for faculty when they're there with the student. And the faculty don't have to teach while they're there either. Because ISL has classes in the evening and you have seminars and all that can be customized. Jonathan, one thing I've shared with the guests, or one guest in the beginning actually shared a book or a podcast that they're interested in. I didn't prepare for this. Are there any books that you recommend for the people that are listening to the podcast, whether it be healthcare or spiritual or faith-based or anything that comes to mind that helps with uh the journey that ISL is on? A lot of the lot of the guests have been mentioning different medical books that are very, very popular. But again, I I didn't prepare for this, so I apologize.

Jonathan 53:53

And no, no, there's there's there's I'm I'm trying to think of the name of the book. It was about a doctor who went overseas and went to the villages to work. I will get the name to you. And maybe I can send it to you later. But that book to me, I read that when I was in high school, and I did it after we did our first trip overseas, and I was fascinated by the by the by the by the guts it took for this guy to go overseas and start something new. And it really resonated because when we started ISL, we didn't know it was gonna to be a thing or was gonna succeed. And so, you know, I it really was it was it was it was a pretty risky thing to do because now when you're bringing a group of people, well you have to make sure that they're safe overseas and you can't just drop them off and go, I mean, it was just us to do this. And so it was very, very exciting, but also very risky. And I I really kind of related to the position that he was in when you show up in a new country and just kind of open your doors to work. And we didn't have medical knowledge, you know. We were not, you know, we were not doctors, so we had to rely on the doctors that we met in country to provide the care. But we but we knew what we wanted to to accomplish and we could do the legwork for that, but we didn't have any medical expertise. And so I always resonated with those stories of folks that go overseas not really understanding what they're getting themselves into, and then they look back and like, wow, that I don't think I would have done that if I would have known how hard it was going to be. But now that I'm here and I've gone through it, it you know, it all turned out great.

Dr. H 55:16

So well, yeah, for those that are listening, I'll I'll get that book and I'll post it on the uh on the site. So that that'll be great. I look forward to reading that myself. I appreciate Jonathan, you sharing with us the the history of ISL and and most importantly, how you forged your own path. And I think that's very unique that you you've been able to do that. And and now you're a leader in this industry of uh providing opportunities for students to seek health care and render healthcare in underserved uh populations. Uh all that said, is there anything you want to share, last couple of words with our listening audience?

Jonathan 55:50

Uh I would just encourage everybody that if you're interested in medical, if you're interested in travel, if you're interested in helping folks overseas, you know, give it a shot. You know, don't be don't be shy. I think now more than ever, it's very accessible. You're gonna pay maybe a couple thousand dollars for the whole program that includes meals, that includes all the programming in country, the all the translators, we're gonna work with you every step of the way to make it easy. And I think opening that door to a lot of folks, uh especially now when the global when you know when the global community has kind of grown so so so close, it's it's this is the best time to go and to give it a shot. And so we're we are here to help. And if you just have some questions too, we have very knowledgeable people on our staff, and we're we just love to help you out. So if you're thinking about it, now's a good time to do it.

Access Barriers & Community Clinics

Dr. H 56:40

Well, I do appreciate uh your motto, travel, serve, learn. That that's quite unique. And as is the name, International Service Learning. Very unique. If you haven't had a chance, I recommend people visit the website. Uh the address will be posted. There'll be a link on the on the website. Right now, ICEL has 11 countries, as Jonathan shared. They're always looking to develop more countries. A lot of that's guided by the state of politics with the State Department. And but there's always opportunities. And I know you mentioned India and all those other ones. Obviously, those trips would be at least two-week trips as opposed to Latin America being seven or nine-day trips because of the of the distance. Well, Jonathan, thank you so much for your time today. I really, really appreciate it. Wish you the best with ISL, and we really appreciate what ISL has done. I know personally, after 15 years of having worked with ISL and having seen students come through the ISL experience, they've all grown. And and a lot of these kids, and I apologize, I call them kids. A lot of these students, a lot of these students have have have seen their way because of being on an ISL trip. So thank you, thank you, thank you for being there in the beginning and and starting down this road. And we really appreciate what you've done for all these healthcare-focused students.

Jonathan 57:58

Thanks so much, Patrick. We're super excited about this podcast. I think it's gonna reach a lot of people. And one of the things I'm really excited about is to see you're gonna do some interviews with this with the students that before they go on a program and then talk to them after. And to me, that's gonna be the most extraordinary thing because you're gonna see that transition and that glow that they come back with. They're gonna be so excited, you know, about what they saw and what they do. And and like we say, that's the first taste. And you can serve overseas, but you can also serve locally, and that'll ignite that kind of that spirit of service that we kind of plant on these types of programs. And I think it's gonna be wonderful to see that when you're yeah, and thank you for that reminder, Jonathan.

Dr. H 58:36

That is gonna be a unique podcast. And I've done a little research, I haven't seen where anyone's really done that. Uh, we've got a group of students that are gonna be going on spring break trips, and my plan is to interview before and then after, and as you say, feel the excitement and the nervousness beforehand, and then most importantly, feel the passion when they come back. And and that passion leads them to service in their own home communities because as I share with my students, we don't have to go international to do these to render service, but it is a unique opportunity where they learn cultural humility, where they learn develop cultural competencies, they learn a little bit of medical Spanish or whatever language in the host country. So there are great benefits, obviously, to traveling abroad. Not everyone can afford it. We hope more scholarships can come down the road so more students will be able to afford. But for all that do take advantage of the opportunity, as you shared earlier, they are changed people when they come home. And and that's what we want. We want 100% focused. This is what I want to do. I can see myself doing that, and what a what a what a great place we're in to be able to develop the future of healthcare in the United States.

Jonathan 59:41

Absolutely.

Dr. H 59:42

Yep. Well, thank you again. Appreciate it, Jonathan.

Jonathan 59:45

Thank you, Patrick. It's really good to really good to sit down with you.

Dr. H 59:49

I want to sincerely thank our guest, Jonathan, for his willingness to join us today on the International Service Learning Experiential Medical Education podcast. But most importantly, I want I want to thank Jonathan for the passion that he has shared with us, specific to his own unique work in international service. Through years of developing the resources and opportunities of International Service Learning or ISL, he has helped healthcare-focused students to become better global citizens.