The Power Behind the Future: Dr. Francis Wang on Energy Storage, Innovation & Legacy

Video Version: https://youtu.be/ZBcyHdEpSSs

In this electrifying episode, host Bo Kemp sits down with Dr. Francis Wang, former Chair of Nano Graf, a Graf’s silicon oxide anode manufacturer, to explore the unseen but essential force powering our technological future: energy storage. With a career rooted in battery chemistry, advanced materials, and manufacturing innovation, Dr. Wang shares his journey from the lab bench to the executive suite — and what it means to build at the frontier of science and entrepreneurship in Illinois and beyond.

Together, they unpack Dr. Wang’s early fascination with battery technology and how it became the foundation for his scientific and entrepreneurial legacy; why Nano Graf’s silicon oxide anode technology is a game-changer in improving battery performance, longevity, and charging speeds; how energy storage is the invisible infrastructure enabling industries like AI, quantum computing, and robotics — and why future progress depends on the next wave of battery breakthroughs; a look at Illinois’ competitive edge in clean energy and manufacturing, from talent pipelines to research institutions, and how regional ecosystems can lead global innovation; the challenges and insights from bridging the gap between deep research and commercialization, and what it really takes to bring breakthrough science to market; and Dr. Wang’s long-term vision: a world where energy technology underpins more equitable, sustainable, and intelligent systems — and where the next generation of innovators are empowered to lead.

Whether you're an entrepreneur, scientist, policymaker, or investor, this conversation offers a rare inside look at the forces shaping tomorrow’s economy — and the people building it behind the scenes.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Are you ready to grow your business, build wealth, and spark transformation in the South Suburbs of Chicago? Visit Southlanddevelopment.org today and sign up for our newsletter, stay connected, get the resources, and be the first to hear about the achieved summit, where entrepreneurs, developers, investors, and change makers come together to ignite growth and opportunity. Don't just watch change happen, be a part of it. Join the movement at Southlanddevelopment.org and start building your legacy today. From artificial intelligence to electric vehicles, every future industry depends on one hidden truth: better and more energy. Dr. Francis Wayne takes us inside of Nanograph and the invisible infrastructure behind the next industrial revolution. Thank you for coming. It's good to see you, Francis. I was fortunate enough to run into you uh on the street and get an opportunity to bring you in, but you actually sit in this really important space with the work that you do, which is why I wanted to have a chance to talk with you on this podcast. And you really built a whole career about being on the frontier of energy storage. And energy storage is a really important component of what is going to happen with almost all the future industries, whether it's quantum, robotics, and the like. Can you just tell us a little bit about your background and kind of how you got into that space, kind of going from the Duracells of the world to the nanographs, and tell us a little bit about what nanograph does.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Yeah, for sure. Um first of all, good to see you. And uh thanks for having me here. Um yeah, just my background in um in energy storage really goes back to uh my graduate days. So I have a educational background in uh materials chemistry, so or material science. And you know, I got my degree, my PhD in the 90s, and it was kind of at that time that there was this shift um from superconductivity into these intercalation compounds, so from the 80s to the 90s. And, you know, as a student I did notice that all the you know big names that I'd looked up to that were doing incredible academic work, and I said, this seems to be a trend and I want to be part of it. And the lithium ion battery was commercialized in 1992 by Sony, and you know, my my educational background really overlapped with that time. So certainly that was part of the influence. Um the other things that have drawn me to that are just um this desire, and it's part of my personality. Um I think I'm an entrepreneur at heart. Yep. And um there's so many things about me of just never being satisfied with the status quo and sometimes, you know, being a little bit of a misfit or a rebel. Um you know, never really liked working for large companies. Um all of those things put together, together with you know my educational background, led me to batteries. I think in the 90s I saw the importance of it. And my first job, as you kind of mentioned, was with Duracell. Duracell in the late 90s was actually quite a powerhouse, but um never really could catch on to the lithium mine game. And since then, um, you know, starting around 2000, 2001, China's really, you know, put the pedal to the metal. And, you know, today China controls well over 70% of the value chain, and they kind of control energy storage. And people like me are trying to rebuild the US battery supply chain um on a number of um different directives from the government and national directives, and so it's important work, as you say, and it's gonna power and be the foundation of so many of the things that I think over the next couple of decades will be changing our lives.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

You know, um when I think about part of the story, um, it reminds me of this movie There Will Be Blood. I don't know if you've ever seen that movie. It's a great movie. And you know, the guy is going out prospecting, he wants to buy the land, and the owner refuses to sell the land. And at the end of the show, the guy comes back and basically says, Yeah, I I dug around and I drank your milkshake, right? I took everything. What the Chinese have strategically done is own these materials that are critical to battery storage. And it didn't take a genius to realize that, hey, we're in this electronic space, so energy matters. Um what I don't think everyone equally understood is how important energy storage was going to be. Um and I think they made a strategic decision that, hey, I can own the elements of this that control energy storage and put myself in a place where I can effectively drink your milkshake, right? Um and what you're doing in part with nanograph is trying to resolve the fact that all the key resources that are critical to actually build battery storage have to now be innovated. And for us to actually get around this monopoly, talk a little bit about what nanograph specifically is doing as part of that effort.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Yeah, absolutely. So nanograph um started off as a spin out of Northwestern University. So there was a silicon anode technology that um came out of Northwestern, and a number of students started a company uh which was originally called Synode, and then we rebranded ourselves as Nanograph a little bit later on. What we make, we actually make material. We actually have two factories over in Westtown, um so the west part of Chicago, and we make a material, it's a silicon anode. And for those of you not familiar with batteries, um, I think everyone knows there's a positive and negative side in the battery. So we make the negative side of the battery. And silicon anodes are important in the sense that, and we've known this for quite some time, silicon can absorb ten times per weight the amount of lithium than our conventional or the incumbent technology that we use today, which is graphite. Um, and that can be a huge advantage. So in theory, adding silicon to a lithium ion battery will increase energy density, power density, um, and there's a number of other potential benefits from silicon. What that means in a practical sense, um, I'll maybe use electric vehicles as uh an example. You know, you'll be able to increase the range of your car 30, 40, 50 percent. You'll also be able to be able to fast charge your car, which is a big deal. We haven't really reached those metrics yet. Um, these are all things that silicon ten years ago, it was a little bit of a dream. And then fast forward to today, right? Silicon's out there, it's being commercialized, um, it's in electric vehicles today. Um, so a lot of those dreams and hopes that we had in the beginning, we see that happening. Certainly we're trying to do the same thing that is being done in Asia, which is you know, to get the product out to market and as we do that continue to scale and grow the company.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

Yeah. You know, one of the things I think is interesting um that's in front of us, but not everybody's paying attention to, is the speed of change. You know, one of the examples I always use is in 1996, if you wanted to listen to music on the go, you had a walkman or a disc man and you carry it on your hip, right? But by 2001, just five years later, you couldn't give away disc. People were using compact disc as you know holders for their drinks. And five years, a trillion dollar global industry was transformed by MP3 players. Um, and yet we often look at what's happening in the world and think, ah, it's not going to change that quickly. But we've witnessed the you know uh basically destruction of uh booksellers, of blockbuster, you know, of Discman, all those sorts of things. I I believe this is starting to become better known, but tying it directly to the battery issue, you know, the Ubers and the Lyfts of the world are actually designed to do something that um could be positive but will have some negative uh ramifications. You know, if if we're selling 17 million cars a year, well, um if I can make the price of your trip so cheap that it doesn't make sense for you anymore to have a car note, well, all of a sudden I'll just be a subscriber. And part of the strategy for an Uber or Lyft to get there is really predicated on three things, one of which you play a really important role on, right? A, I want to move from combustible engines to uh um uh electronic vehicles because I can go from 2,000 parts to 200 parts. That has a huge cost and maintenance issue. Um two, um, I want to get my battery power up to a point where I can charge this one time and use it for the entirety of a day. And three, I want to get rid of all the labor. I want to take all the people that are driving and want to turn them into driverless cars. But the combination of those three things will actually mean that for many of us, we'll never need to buy a car. We'll buy a car in the same way that you buy a book because it's a vanity thing that we want to own, tactile, and have. But practically speaking, the cost of getting around will be a lot cheaper. Now, the downside of that, of course, is you only need to probably sell two or three million cars a year now. And there's a whole series of industries that are tied to car production that will suffer as a result of not needing that many cars anymore. You're kind of right in the middle of those sorts of transformations quietly that are not obvious to everyone. And I'm just curious, I'm telling you a story that I feel like you you've this is all very, you know, common knowledge for you, but how do you position yourself in a world where those sorts of cataclysmic changes are happening?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Yeah, i it's it's important, you know, especially these days, to be able to have a technology. Um there's a couple of things, right? So, you know, if you want to survive in this space, right, and as you said, energy storage or batteries underlie the performance of all of these things. Everything autonomous cars, AI, human robotics, drones, et cetera, et cetera. Um, they're only as good as the batteries that you have. Um today there's a need when you think about, you know, China kind of owns this category. They've you know make very cheap and pretty good batteries. Yeah. So for American companies, when we think about, you know, okay, you want to get in the game and people want to invest in you, you need to be a sustainable company. So it's kind of there's a number of things that have to be true. Number one, probably first and foremost, that you're offering a technology that is way better than what's out there today.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

That's tough to do. If anybody's been to China and been in those electric vehicle cars, they're fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

It's really it's really, really tough, tough, and it's getting to be more difficult. And the other one is time. I mean, there's a variety of different strategies, but like as an entrepreneur, um, you know, the longer you go, the more chance there there are things, the risk things happen and you can go out of business very quickly. So, you know, I think companies need to have good technology, amazing people, and kind of get and have a the right strategy to be able to exit and be successful in the space. I mean, all of those things have to come together um to be a viable entity in this space. And as you say, yeah, it's changing very quickly. China's a monster, you know, and our government also seems to change its mind on a daily basis of you know, what are the national directives? And um, you know, entrepreneurs like myself need to be flexible and and find a way.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Well, you're fighting some uphill battles that are coming from policy changes, you know, everything from things like um, you know, there was a major investment to build the infrastructure that would be necessary that we've at least temporarily pulled back on some of that investment. But you can't develop these industries without investing in the infrastructure. Um we are need a tremendous l amount of brain power, and much of that brain power comes from around the world. In fact, probably one of our best and most sustainable competitive advantages of a country has been we could actually attract the smartest and brightest people from around the world to come here. That's becoming more difficult than it's been, and particularly in the industry where you are, where there's a lot of specialized knowledge that doesn't exist everywhere throughout the United States. Needing to be competitive to bring that talent has mattered. But the last part of it has been the ability to invest, right? The environment for people to actually put risk capital behind these sorts of projects has also been very difficult. How have how has Nanograph kind of managed that process and what do you see as the future for a lot of the energy storage um companies that are out there in the next five years, let's call it?

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yeah, I'll I'll start by there's a lot there to unpack. I'll I'll start with our strategy and then maybe talk a little bit about the challenges, the broader challenges of all the companies in the US. So for our company, I mean, I think we've already recognized that um, you know, it it's it's very difficult to go from zero all the way to mainstream, right? And so we've kind of relied on up until this point, and I think it's been a good bet, of the national security concerns or the need for an defense industrial based around batteries, right? We simply don't have one. The called dirty truth of the matter is that you know the U.S. Army does use a certain percentage of Chinese-made cells. It has to be a couple of years.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Every every every person that's out in the field has to have a battery. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

And if you think about all the pieces of equipment that rely on batteries, and if China, let's say World War III happened, broke out, and China said, you know what, no more batteries for you. Yeah. Be a big problem. Yeah. I mean, like a massive problem. So we kind of use that problem or challenge um to be a champion of building the US battery supply chain. We have a technology which allows batteries to be significantly better. Yeah. And the US Army came to us back in 2020 and said, Hey, we have this this cell, it's called an 18650. We actually want you to make the world's most energy dense 18650. They gave us this spec and said, go for it.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Yeah. And gave us a little bit of money to do it, which was even better, and I said, Great. So, um, you know, we're building a product, we know exactly what they want, and if we make it, they'll buy it. Right. So those are the key ingredients I think of being successful.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

And it's supposed to make it easy to raise money.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

It is. And so that's actually what we did. We, you know, demonstrated that, we were able to build it on a small scale. It took us about three and a half years from the time we demonstrated it to get it on a gigafactory line and make enough of these batteries to the military. And you know, that I guess the rest is history, we were able to raise um a fairly large Series B. It was a sixty-five million dollar Series B. Based on the fact that we had this battery, we had this customer. There's been and I'm very grateful for this, a a great deal of um non-dilutive capital has come our way. Yeah. So we have two facilities that were essentially paid for by the Department of Defense and federal government.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Um strong investments, I would call it, from the country into this infrastructure that's required to kind of keep us in a place where we can operate and are safe.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Totally. And so, you know, our company kind of went from and there's two kind of chasms uh in the battery industry. The first one where a lot of people get killed is this is for the upstream people, is they can't get their material or technology into a cell prototype. Well, we did that.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

The second chasm where a lot of people die is they can't get that prototype scaled and out to the market and have a customer buy it. And and back in 2024, late 2024, we did that. So we were able to scale it, get it out to the military. So, you know, I think when people talk about nanograph, that's those are pretty rare to cross both of those chasms. It's not to say that there aren't other things that could certainly kill the company over time, but getting past those two are the um the hardest part.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

You went from basically uh tech readiness level five to nine really quickly. You know, really quickly. It's a technical term, but it's a a way of grading how technically and commercially um operable is your technology to actually be out in the marketplace. And usually when you're at like one or two means that you're very early stage concept. If you're at four or five, you've kind of gone through a concept stage, but you're not commercially viable. Once you get to seven, eight, nine, you're commercially viable and you're out in the marketplace. But those are huge jumps that you basically did in a very short period of time, which is a testament to the great work that you guys have been doing. This isn't an ad. It's just our experience. At the Southland Development Authority, we've spent the past five years growing our team. And time after time, we've turned to LinkedIn, not because we had to, but because it works. It's where we found people who share our mission, our energy, and our commitment to the community. For a small but growing organization like ours, it saved us both time and money and connected us with talent that we might never have found otherwise. If you're looking for the right people to help grow your business, I can tell you from experience, LinkedIn works.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Your listening to the first million is always the hardest. We are now returning to the show.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Yeah, we we we certainly, you know, a lot of blood, sweat, and tears went into that about a five-year period of time. And I think we're very successful now. But now when we look at the space, and I'll talk a little bit about the broader issues that the companies are facing. Um so new administration, you know, if you think back, Biden administration had the IRA, all that legislation was historic, a historic amount of money put behind clean energy programs to get us to electric vehicles and you know, the new energy economy. So all this um work to support the clean energy transition. Well, everything's changed. So new administration, new thinking, not necessarily badgets different. Um, you know, in the Biden administration, the money was with the Department of Energy, not necessarily with the Department of Defense. Now that's flipped. Yeah. Department of Defense had become very strong. A lot of programs from the Department of Energy, just legacy programs from the IRA, have been cut. In fact, yesterday, the$7,500 credit that you would get for buying an EV is gone as of yesterday. Um, so there's all these things where electric vehicles were the kind of holy grail at the end of the day, and we were all marching towards that. Now that's been uh I I I would say altered quite a bit. Um electric vehicles are a little bit of a dirty word these days. Right. The new, you know, where the government would, central government would let us to go are different applications like drones, AI data centers, um, these are all things that um are in line with um military directives, um, secure um and resilient and uh defense industrial base. These are all things that the government wants to see happen. Certainly Nanograph, as with every other company, if they want to participate in that, they need to adjust and be flexible. But that's very hard since many of us were kind of You were going and down a different direction. Totally. And I think the big issue is that you know, these markets that um we've been asked to kind of accelerate and support and enable are relatively small. Some of them are quite nascent. Um whereas the electric vehicle market could easily go very large. And so a lot of startup companies are trapped in the space of, okay, there's a lot of companies trying to get at these very small markets, and we don't see to be globally competitive, which I think hopefully is ultimately the goal, you've got to reach cost and scale, right? To compete with China. Otherwise, there's no point.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

There's no point.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

And so I think that's been there's been a lot of changes in the you know, big beautiful bill that many companies are just struggling with a little bit, to be honest with you. Um entrepreneurs all I mean, that's what we deal with. There's there's changes, things move, we pivot. Um, but I think these are going to be tough pivots. And I think, you know, right this moment that's what everyone's dealing with.

SPEAKER_02 22:45

You know, we were talking a little bit earlier about how electric vehicles could have uh a positive and have some collateral impact that's negative. Um, but one of the things that's interesting is what China has been doing is been building the entire industry off of uh something like electric vehicles. And part of the reason for that is because there are all these ancillary industries that are connected to it, right? So as you transition from combustible vehicles to electric vehicles, you're actually giving the entire supply chain the opportunity to transition alongside that. Right. And that's the reason why it made sense for us to be focused on electric vehicles, not because you're just trying to make everybody drive an electric car, but because you're trying to make sure that the entire supply chain that goes into making a car actually has a chance to transition along with the vehicle itself. What's interesting to me, to your point, um things like the data centers, they're part of this invisible infrastructure that needs to be created. Drones are part of that as well. But neither of those have the ancillary kind of supply chain impact that cars do. Um and to your point, by moving the focus from you know the Department of Energy to the Department of Defense, what you've done in effect is you've created these kind of small kind of ecosystems where you're developing technology that will probably have you know a broader impact over time. But almost all of the innovations that have come out of the Department of Defense are things that have been held back for a long period of time before they're introduced commercially intentionally, right? Which is almost the opposite of what we're really trying to achieve now, because you're you're trying to get people to change huge habits. And the only way to do that is to make sure that it's kind of part of your everyday life. There are very few other things that we do that you can have an impact at the everyday scale other than cars. Are there any other things you can think about? And are there other strategies that maybe other countries have been leveraging that we could mimic?

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, the data centers are interesting. Um and I think it's yet to be seen how big and fast this grows. But from what I understand, what I've read, there's been a number of executive orders that, you know, the grid isn't stable. It's especially in mid-Atlantic, Midwest. Um there are concerns that if we do have as many data centers as they think that's gonna happen, power is gonna be at a premium. And I mean you're gonna experience perhaps in Chicago, you know, times where there's just blackouts. Yeah. Where they just put there's just not enough electricity that could go around, where you know, grid scale energy stores certainly can help balance and stabilize that, right? So it's an enabler. Um that's you know, if it really grows to what folks are saying, and I I again I'm I'm cautious because I've heard stories like that before, and AI and other things don't come quite as fast as you think, but it appears to be. I think that's a big opportunity, and I think everyone needs to shift, but it requires different types of technologies. Yeah. Um, and so it's it's it's not the end of the world. Um, but I think certainly battery companies do need to rethink their strategy and be flexible. Um, China, you know, it it's gonna be very hard. They've done it right. Like if you look at the figures, 50% of all new cars purchased in China are electric, yeah. And whereas here it's eight percent. Wait till after tomorrow, you know, after this credit goes away, I mean, we could be down to four or five percent.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Easily. And and and you know, the one thing, and I wanna I want to m transition to another topic, but one thing, the last thing I'll say about the Chinese cars that it's not only that it's electric, right? It's that um and they're getting closer to autonomous cars, it's just how seamless the experience is. And and if there's anything that really should actually give pause to us as a country, it isn't that they can build a car, it's the experience, because we're all experienced junkies, right? You walk you get into one of these cars and it seamlessly connects to your phone, it connects to your laptop, it connects to everything. You don't have to do anything, right? You literally are just talking and it's responding and it's taking you places that you want to go. It's translating languages for you, it's doing all these things for you that facilitate your life. It's the it's the positive side of what you hope happens out of AI, but you're getting to see it tangibly. Yeah, and that completely changes how you interact with the future in technology. Instead of you worrying about Skynet coming over, there's a terminator reference, to take over everything, you're thinking that, hey, this is actually going to be a facilitator of my experience. And my proof is when I get into my car, look at my experience.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Yeah. And and to add to your point, and I agree with all of that, I mean, we're not talking about an$80,000 car. Right. It's a$20,000 car. And the CEO of Ford recently had been to China and there was there's a big piece, I think, in the New York Times or Wall Street Journal. He was like, wow. He was blown away. And he brought one of the Xiaomi Su 7s, which looks a lot like a Porsche Taekan, you know, but um it's a fantastic car. He loves it. He goes, I've been driving this thing every day. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty clear we're behind in that category. Energy storage certainly plays a role. Yeah. And um, you know, just for myself, you know, I'm one of the many that are um determined and motivated and passionate about, okay, we need to leapfrog, get back in the game.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Well, the thing that's key here is the kind of public-private partnership. And there's some transitioning that's happening at the federal level, but there's a real opportunity, I believe, in the state of Illinois for the same sort of public-private partnership we hope happens at the federal level, but to happen at the state. Um, and I want you to talk a little bit about what the ecosystem here in the state of Illinois in particular looks like. Um, and I've shared with you, you know, off-camera some of the work that we're doing that maybe I'll add into the conversation. But energy storage, the development of advanced material manufacturing here in the state of Illinois, the opportunities that exist for us as the state has been moving in the direction of AI, quantum robotics. Just talk a little bit about how well we're positioned.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Yeah. Um I think some of the pieces are there. That's what I'll say. And I'll I'll shoot out a few of them. So uh we've got a world class national. We have a number of top universities, University of Chicago, Illinois Tech, Northwestern, and uh several others where tons of innovation coming out. Um we've got a number of big name players that have chosen Illinois, uh Goshen, Chinese battery manufacturer, and probably the biggest one is Rivian in normal Illinois making electric vehicles. Um those are only some of the pieces. I think there is a massive opportunity in Illinois, and um certainly like to devote the next chapter of my career to helping bring these things together. Um there's a lot of missing pieces. Yeah, that's what I see. We are also not necessarily working together. And I think you're right, it's a public-private conversation uh, you know, private companies together working together with the state, hopefully the federal government where we can.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

Um and building an ecosystem here where, you know, my my goal, vision, or hope is that we're transforming the Rust belt into the battery belt. Absolutely. And that Chicago or Illinois is kind of the center of that. Because if you think of it, if we really do build that right, and it enables so many other things, you begin to bring in other companies, you begin to bring in robotic companies, you bring in more EV companies and drone companies, and so on. Um being able to, it's like a fundamental building block, I think, of um you know what's what lies ahead for our for our state. And if done right, we can do this relatively quickly with um tangible benefits that we see in like three to five years.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

I I'm you know, I'm a fan and a believer in the opportunity here in the state of Illinois, in the Southland, in particular of the Chicagoland region. You know, from my perspective, we have some core assets that are difficult, if not impossible, to replicate that make this the best place probably in the country to at least make these investments, um, not only for the state of Illinois, but really for the country. You know, one of the problems that you see is if you want to develop any kind of a new plant that's greater than 25 acres, you need farmland. Um and almost by definition, wherever there are farms, there's not electricity because it's not necessary. But there's a three to seven year wait in many cases to build a transformer substation that allows you to connect to the grid. Most businesses can't wait two to three years in order to actually get started building because there's no electricity. We have more access to electricity here in the state of Illinois than many of our competitive states and regions do. And that includes some of our nuclear, which is actually clean energy on top of that. Um we and in the south suburbs in particular, we actually are at the junction of both two grids. So you have access to both the grid that services the city of Chicago and grids that service other parts. And having access to both of those grids is a strategic advantage in terms of making sure that you have the redundancy necessary for electricity. Um, we also have access to water in many of the places around the country where you'd want to build a new plant and you need electricity, even if you overcome the electricity issue, you don't have water. And without water, you can't have cooling and you can't actually operate. Um, and because of both our capacity to drill for water, the access to the cacao sac, the uh access to Lake Michigan, we have water here. The third, and maybe equally important, if not more important, is actually people. Most of the other places around the country where you'd want to build the next new plant, whether it's building advanced manufacturing material or anything else, is in a place that doesn't have very many people. And most importantly, not only does it not have people, it doesn't have access to people, right? The ability for someone to get to and from that plant to work is highly limited, right? Um, we actually have both in the south suburbs of Chicago land that's available for 2,500, 50, 100 acres with proximity to uh access to the grid. Um, and we are looking specifically, the Southland Development Authority is to work with companies like NICOR and others to build gas-powered uh uh energy so that we are powering land, um, we have access to water, and we have access to public transportation that can take you throughout the entire Chicago land area into the South Suburbs. So we've got a workforce that's available, a diverse workforce in terms of background that can get in and out of that market. All of those are parts of the cell, and admittedly this is a bit of a commercial, right, for the state of Illinois of why we think this is the right place to be. But it's also one of the reasons why we're interested in encouraging companies like yours and others of building uh you know their next plants, you know, in our market to actually foster the development in that space.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Yeah, no, um sold. Yes. Let's uh let's certainly work together on that. Yeah, no, it's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

I want to transition to another topic, which is you. I want to talk about what was Francis like as a young person. You know, what was your inspiration? Um, and this show is as much about money as it is really about business and mindset. Yeah. And philosophically, what I believe is that we are all a work in progress, and that what brings most people joy and happiness actually isn't achieving their goals. Yeah, it's having goals that you're moving intentionally towards. Um, and so most of us, when we are fortunate enough to achieve a goal, we create a new one for ourselves. And you're the nate that's the nature of you as a person, I'm sure. But those early goals, those things that we wanted to be as a child, most of the time we can't even identify why. What was it about this thing that made us think, oh, I want to do that? Yeah. I'm curious about what you were like as a child and what was the thing that you looked at that made you say, Oh, I want to do that, and how has that kind of progressed your career?

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Yeah, it's uh as I'm sure with most people, it's not one single thing, but when I look back, um I will say I am the son of a first generation immigrant family um who immigrated like so many from Taiwan to the United States. Um my dad came to the United States in 1959 um to get a better degree and in search of a better life, right? The American Dream American dream. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I've been, as you can imagine, um strongly influenced by that immigrant mentality, um and you know, um so many things like hard work, perseverance, all that um has played into who I am today and and contributes to some of the success that I've had. I think, you know, the other component um is a little bit of just being a bit of a misfit. So I grew up, you know, in an area, uh central Jersey, yeah, where uh there just weren't that many Asian people. So um, you know, there were uh black and white and a little bit of brown, but you know, my high school had like two or three Asian people, which you know, for for me it just fundamentally f made me feel a little bit different, right? And I think as a person I've always been um just different in the sense that um you know there's always been you know, my my parents have very immigrant mentality, um very traditionally Chinese, and I didn't want to be that. So I sort of fought against the the system at home, um always been a little bit of a rebel. Um but influenced by my parents in the sense that you know my father came over, and that was kind of the golden era of RD in the United States, so these big corporate labs, IBM, Bell Labs. My father worked uh at RCA uh David Sarnoff in Central Jersey. These were incredible places to do work and places like Bell Labs are um you know just uh so much uh technology and innovation and talent came out of that. Um so I was influenced by that, and I started my career after graduate school working for big companies like Duracell and Partron Gamble and others. Um I just never fit in. And um, you know, it was just uh it felt like a lot of bureaucracy, it felt like my hands were handcuffed so many times I wanted to do something, and I thought it would, you know, and so it took a lot of courage, and you know, my parents were like, you know, their their idea of the American dream was okay, come to this country, get a job, big company, cushy job, and you know, and raise family, and you're good. And uh for me, it just wasn't that. I think when I reached the age of about 45, I I'd done quite well for myself and at a large corporate company. And um, I told my wife, uh, I just can't do this anymore. I I just cannot do one more day at a big company. It is literally killing me. Yeah. And you know, my dreams of being an entrepreneur probably started um yeah, in the late 90s. Um I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and this was a time where, you know, portable electronics were becoming popular. And, you know, one of the the icons, and he's a flawed figure, but Steve Jobs, people like that, where you know, I love the fact that he was different. Not everyone liked him.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

But he was changing the world, he was developing innovative products, um, he was thinking differently about that, and I I just ate that up. And I think um, you know, that kind of put the bug in me. But it really took till I was kind of late to the game. I would say 45 that I said, all right, maybe just on time.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Maybe it was maybe that was the right thing.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Maybe there were lessons that I had to learn in life, and perhaps that's true, but I decided at 45 we took a massive risk, and I just said, Look, I, you know, joined a company here with about three or four people, and um, you know, my wife sitting behind me was actually um very supportive of the dream, even though we were all worried. Of course. And, you know, I said, look, this is not about the money. I just, you know, I love doing it. And that was ten years ago. I think we were all worried about how long are we gonna survive here? Is this just another eight months, and then we're moving to the next city. And um, you know, we had a great team, and you know, I've helped the company and over time put in the 10,000 hours and the blood, sweat, and tears, and made something impossible possible. Right. And it's been the best thing that I've ever done in my career. Um, and you know, I if this if there's any aspiring entrepreneurs listening to this, I'd say, you know, think it through clearly what you're getting into. It's really, really hard. But I'll tell you, if you do it right, it'll be the best thing you ever did. That's very true in my case, and I have absolutely no regrets. I mean, it was never about the money, but I think what we achieved um, you know, really fulfilled the need within me to move the needle, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:08

There's so many people who have this need to have a challenge, to do something that's difficult. And when I hear you describe your desire to not be typecast, right, whether it be by your family or by the other kids that were in your neighborhood, you really have this staunch desire to be who you are and your real authenticity. Um, and a lot of that I think gets played out, at least my experience is people tend to look for a challenge as a way to demonstrate, you know, the level of creativity, the level of commitment that they can, you know, put in the direction of actually solving this sort of a problem. And and when I talk about personal fulfillment, it's the effort to move in that direction that actually often fills a person more so than the success itself, which is why sometimes people actually achieve their goal and then they're like, okay, now what? Right? But when you are the type of person who's putting the next challenge in front of yourself and the next challenge in front of yourself, um, it just continues to fill you, you know, in a positive way. And most of us, you know, the same thing that is our albatross that hangs around our neck that's a difficulty, is actually also the thing that's our superpower, right?

SPEAKER_01 43:30

Absolutely. 100% agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

So I um I want to talk a little bit about the future. And as you think about how do I create my next challenge, what does that look like for you? How do you think about the legacy that you leave not only in the company, nanograph that you've helped to form, not only in the industry, but just in general. How do you think about how you want to leave your legacy and what's kind of next on your journey?

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Yeah, uh, it's a great question and something that's been um on my mind over the last uh two years, and legacy has become very important. You don't think about it when you're a young man, right? You know, and not that I'm an old man, but um I've thought about it a lot over the last two years. Um what I really hope for myself. Excuse me. No worries. And plan on doing is a lot of what we've been talking about is is building that ecosystem of energy storage in Illinois. I think perhaps the analogy we've um been very successful. Um you know, the state and um universities as well as private companies have worked together to create a quantum microelectronics center here, right? And that's to be able to be at the forefront of quantum science, right, which is you know the building block of AI, and um bring in other companies, right, and and make this a hub and center of that. Um I'd love to do the same with energy storage. I think um having been in the industry so long and also having the relationships with the government and understanding what's needed, what mistakes you can make in the pitfalls, and also a vision for how we can do that. Um that's gonna be the next chapter for me. And my legacy again is you know, building that ecosystem in my backyard. Now, Illinois, after ten years, Chicago's become my home. Absolutely. And it's important for me to to grow this city in a in a positive way, and I think this is an opportunity for me to do that.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Well, that's wonderful, and I look forward to working with you on building kind of the uh energy storage ecosystem that's here in Illinois with the Southland Development Authority. I just want to thank you for taking the time to come down and report with us and your lovely wife for also being here as well. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 46:06

Thank you, Bo.