SPEAKER_00: Podcast um coming to you from St.
SPEAKER_00: Augustine Church and Student Center and Coral Gables.
SPEAKER_00: My name is Michelle Lopez.
SPEAKER_00: I'm one of your hosts today.
SPEAKER_00: And um Father, why don't you introduce yourself and our lovely guest?
SPEAKER_00: We have a guest today, so we're excited.
SPEAKER_05: This is brand new today.
SPEAKER_05: It's very exciting.
SPEAKER_05: Uh of course I'm Father Vigo from St.
SPEAKER_05: Augustine's.
SPEAKER_05: And today we have the pleasure of having Pam Gigante, who was an NBC 6 anchor, morning anchor.
SPEAKER_05: I don't know how you did it for the the as many years as you did it.
SPEAKER_05: It's crazy.
SPEAKER_05: But um also a parisher.
SPEAKER_05: She's a parishioner sometimes.
SPEAKER_05: You're part-time parishioner.
SPEAKER_05: Part-time.
SPEAKER_05: You're mostly at Epiphany.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: But she's a Legatus member.
SPEAKER_05: I'm a chaplain for Legatus, and we've worked many years together.
SPEAKER_05: Even before I was at St.
SPEAKER_05: Augustine, I've known Pam.
SPEAKER_05: Uh she's done a lot of great work with the Archdiocese of Miami.
SPEAKER_05: But I thought it would be fun to bring you a professional.
SPEAKER_05: This is what she does for a living.
SPEAKER_05: So she's going to give us some notes and feedback.
SPEAKER_05: Can you give us some tips here?
SPEAKER_02: You guys are doing great.
SPEAKER_02: I've been I've been following.
SPEAKER_02: Congratulations on this podcast.
SPEAKER_02: It's been, I think, wildly successful.
SPEAKER_02: I've heard from so many people who watch and they've gotten so much from it.
SPEAKER_02: So you guys are doing great.
SPEAKER_02: Don't worry.
SPEAKER_05: Well, if you say so, it means a lot.
SPEAKER_05: But thank you for being here today.
SPEAKER_05: We want to dig in and just talk about the hominy.
SPEAKER_05: That's what we do on Mondays.
SPEAKER_05: We kind of break open what uh what we heard on Sunday.
SPEAKER_05: And um so here we are.
SPEAKER_05: But thank you for coming.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00: And our hope is going from the pews on Sunday to the whole of your week.
SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna be opening up um the feast of the dedication of the Lateran Basilica in Rome.
SPEAKER_00: Did I say that right, Father?
SPEAKER_00: That's like the longest feast.
SPEAKER_00: St.
SPEAKER_05: John Lateran, yeah, you got it from the Lateran family.
SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
SPEAKER_00: So that was um the feast day that we celebrated yesterday.
SPEAKER_00: And so we're actually gonna be talking that was the homily was kind of opening up what that feast day means for us personally and for the church.
SPEAKER_00: Um so we're not gonna read the homily today, but I'm gonna give you a little kind of preview into uh what the homily was about, and we'll kind of open up conversation from there.
SPEAKER_00: Um so again, this is taking from Father's Homily.
SPEAKER_00: It says, The roof may fall, the walls may crumble, but the church of Christ will always stand strong because the church isn't marble or mortar.
SPEAKER_00: It's you, it's me, it's all of us.
SPEAKER_00: So that is kind of our conversation today, is looking at this great feast day is about a building, but it's not really about a building.
SPEAKER_00: So would love to kind of I think that's the the twist that you gave to it, Father, that was really beautiful.
SPEAKER_00: Um because I think the the name of the feast day is a little um you're kind of like, oh, okay, that's that's nice, a church.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: And then what about what does that mean?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: It's not about a building.
SPEAKER_05: And I think the church does that because it's to stress that it's not about a building.
SPEAKER_05: As beautiful as St.
SPEAKER_05: John Lateran is, I I mentioned in the homily, it's uh one of the four major papal basilicas, and it has a holy door, lots of people going to St.
SPEAKER_05: John Lateran.
SPEAKER_05: Um it's an impressive building.
SPEAKER_05: But the church is not about stone and mortar, it's uh more.
SPEAKER_05: It's and and and going back to uh the story that I gave about Cuba.
SPEAKER_05: But we can get back we can get to that uh in a little bit.
SPEAKER_05: But St.
SPEAKER_05: John Lateran is an important church, it's the cathedral of the Pope.
SPEAKER_05: A lot of people think that St.
SPEAKER_05: Peter's Basilica is uh the the cathedral of the Pope, but it's not, it's St.
SPEAKER_05: John Lateran.
SPEAKER_05: And in when you go to Rome and you see it uh these huge letters there on the facade of the church that says mother and head of all churches in the city and the world.
SPEAKER_05: Of course it's in Latin.
SPEAKER_05: Um but uh impressive.
SPEAKER_05: It's a it's a beautiful building.
SPEAKER_05: But I think that this uh feast day really reminds us that uh Jesus Christ is a foundation.
SPEAKER_05: We are the body of Christ, we are the church, and how do we understand that?
SPEAKER_05: If we can understand it, then the community grows in that understanding.
SPEAKER_05: Um so yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I thought I listened to the homily as well.
SPEAKER_01: It was it was it was really good.
SPEAKER_02: I was taking a bunch of notes and also because I was gonna be here today, you know, I wanted to remember a few things, but I thought as well, like Michelle was saying, it's sort of an abstract feast day.
SPEAKER_02: You're like, why are we celebrating this?
SPEAKER_02: So I think you really put it into perspective.
SPEAKER_02: And you mentioned, wasn't it, Constantine's baptismal font?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: Still there.
SPEAKER_05: It's still there.
SPEAKER_05: You can go and see it.
SPEAKER_02: That is so impressive.
SPEAKER_05: Right.
SPEAKER_02: And that there's just been this building layer upon layer of the church, and so that's just metaphoric for how we are as Christians, because it's this lifelong spiritual journey, and you're continuing to build on what you know and what you believe and how you act.
SPEAKER_02: Like we're always we're s we're always growing and always growing and always rebuilding.
SPEAKER_05: You know, this church is super important because it's the first church uh that's built after Christianity is legalized.
SPEAKER_05: So it's 324, um right after Constantine is is baptized and they build this huge church.
SPEAKER_05: And um but it it's going back to what what are we celebrating?
SPEAKER_05: What is it truly that we're we're celebrating building?
SPEAKER_05: No, we're not celebrating building, we're celebrating our Christian faith.
SPEAKER_05: And um but so yeah, I went to Cuba on uh on Sunday, just for Sunday, you know, for a couple hours.
SPEAKER_05: And uh it was devastating in the sense that what I saw was was crazy in uh because you know, we have hurricanes here in Florida, we'll have it in the United States, and the government's very good, and people are very good, and NGOs and and communities come together, they start picking up the debris, and they come together, people bring water, and and you see the best of humanity after something, some sort of uh uh devastating something like a hurricane or an earthquake.
SPEAKER_05: But Cuba doesn't have any resources.
SPEAKER_05: So they didn't have power before the earthquake, uh the hurricane, and they don't have water, and so it's it's um it's it's on top of and on top of uh just misfortune.
SPEAKER_05: Um so we went uh on behalf of the Archdiocese of Miami and the Catholic charities, the Order of Malta, we took down uh something like 43,000 pounds of food.
SPEAKER_05: That's incredible.
SPEAKER_05: But the big deal was to get down there to talk to some of these chur uh to uh government officials and church officials to make sure that all that food that was coming down off the plane, it was getting into the trucks that was sitting there waiting by from caritas from uh the Archdiocese of Santiago, and and we saw that.
SPEAKER_05: We saw how they were able to put that in the trucks, and uh that was the reason why we went.
SPEAKER_05: And then and then we made our way to uh the sanctuary of Our Lady of Charity, and we prayed there uh before the uh Nuestra Señora de la Caridad, and that was uh very powerful, impactful.
SPEAKER_05: In fact, the eye of the hurricane was very close to the shrine.
SPEAKER_05: So that whole area is just devastating.
SPEAKER_05: And the priest, I didn't mention this in the homily, but we we visited, and they start.
SPEAKER_05: I felt so bad because we got there, and the priest wants to say hello and wants to show us around.
SPEAKER_05: And and Mass is starting, and it's starting late.
SPEAKER_05: You know how I am.
SPEAKER_05: I like to start on Mass on time and end on time, and and I'm saying, but Father, you gotta celebrate Mass.
SPEAKER_05: Don't worry about us go, no, no, no, you're here.
SPEAKER_05: We want to celebrate, you know.
SPEAKER_05: And um the church was packed.
SPEAKER_05: I'm talking packed.
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
SPEAKER_05: And um he says, You see all these people, a lot of these people lost their homes, and they're here.
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
SPEAKER_05: They're celebrating the faith.
SPEAKER_05: And um that was the the what I wanted to.
SPEAKER_05: That's how when I came home, I I rested for a little bit, then I went to my office and I sat down and wrote the homily for Sunday.
SPEAKER_05: Um but it brought me back to that that instance where that lady, you know, we pull up to this church that had been decimated.
SPEAKER_05: It was just basically just the floor of the church was there.
SPEAKER_05: And she's sitting there sweeping, and the bishop comes out and says, Oh my dear, you know, you lost the church is gone.
SPEAKER_05: And and he she reprimanded, no, Monseignor, la Iglesia somos nosotros, we are the church.
SPEAKER_05: Don't forget that.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: You know, and uh that's telling that to the archbishop, right?
SPEAKER_01: Right.
SPEAKER_05: Well, I wasn't Archbishop Miami, it was the Archbishop of there in Cuba, but um but it it it n I never forgot that.
SPEAKER_05: So powerful.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's but the the one thing that I wanted to communicate is how do you see yourself in relationship to your community and also your domestic church at home?
SPEAKER_05: Like how does how do you see your church as a stones and the mortar and that we're living stones?
SPEAKER_05: I I was talking to someone today and and she was uh lamenting of a big family problem that they have, but one of the things that she was saying is that the values that I instilled in my children are still there and I see that that domestic church, those val that that's still there.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right?
SPEAKER_00: That's so powerful.
SPEAKER_00: And uh Father, even um even your story, I mean like what a way to celebrate this feast day by like being universal church to another country and like being able to, yeah, be with the people there and then come home to your own people.
SPEAKER_00: Like it really that universality of the church is so unique and beautiful.
SPEAKER_00: Um, but also kind of this um invitation to like do we know that we're the church?
SPEAKER_00: And I think even myself growing up, like church was building.
SPEAKER_00: Like that was it.
SPEAKER_00: Like, are we going to church?
SPEAKER_00: And but that and also like church or like you know, the religious or the priest.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Um but what you're kind of opening up in your homily is calling to mind that like that's not the whole truth.
SPEAKER_00: The whole truth is like we are the church.
SPEAKER_00: Before ever there were walls, right, in the early church, it was the people.
SPEAKER_00: And really helping us know that that's the responsibility to take up and also collaborate with and um and how do we see that?
SPEAKER_05: Like I think that that's the question.
SPEAKER_05: Do I the the comment that you just made is do we understand that we are the church?
SPEAKER_05: This collective body of Christ.
SPEAKER_05: And what I mentioned was when one part of the body suffers, we all suffer.
SPEAKER_05: And do you feel that?
SPEAKER_05: Do you feel that hurt?
SPEAKER_05: Um and I think St.
SPEAKER_05: Augustine does a pretty good job about that.
SPEAKER_05: We're very quick to w what what what do you need?
SPEAKER_05: How how can we do this?
SPEAKER_05: How can we solve it?
SPEAKER_05: What what what what where's the you know the assistance that's that's needed?
SPEAKER_05: Um and so we're good at that.
SPEAKER_05: It's faith in action.
SPEAKER_05: And you're right, there was such a st stark contrast from being in Cuba with this, you know, church and and the celebration and also being at our church and the celebration that we had there.
SPEAKER_05: Two different styles, but but the same exact church.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00: It's it's incredible.
SPEAKER_00: Um Pam, I was kind of thinking about like what what has your experience been of like of church, like church being like you, like you're being a part of that.
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any of your own experiences you'd like to share of like coming to a greater understanding of um being a part of the living church?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's such a great question.
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm a cradle Catholic, so it was always part of my life.
SPEAKER_02: Is it you know, when you're little, you don't even know the difference.
SPEAKER_02: You've learned how to do the sign of the cross and say your prayers, which is such a gift.
SPEAKER_02: Um I'm so grateful that my family gave that to me.
SPEAKER_02: So it was always a part of my life, um, and it was always the foundation for me.
SPEAKER_02: Even when I went away to to college, maybe I was one of those rare students that didn't really drift away.
SPEAKER_02: To me, it felt because I was away from home, it gave me a sense of belonging and it made me feel like home going to mass, because it was no matter where you go, the mass is still the same, and that's such the beauty of the Catholic faith.
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think one of the things that really one of the pivotal moments in my career, I guess, or my life as a Catholic, was when I did my Emmaus retreat.
SPEAKER_02: Um that was just so beautiful to go on that retreat and to meet all of these other women who were the living embodiment of Christ.
SPEAKER_02: Because they were sharing their stories, a lot of them really profound, heartfelt stories, some with tragedy involved and and trauma and despair, but yet they were doing so well, if you will, because of their faith.
SPEAKER_02: And they gave people so much hope.
SPEAKER_02: And I remember being on that on my retreat, and this was in 2000, so it was a long time ago, and feeling for the first time and understanding for the first time how much Jesus loved me.
SPEAKER_02: I don't know why I didn't get that before or understand that before, but it was at that moment and going on that retreat, which is such a gift to yourself, because you just close the the w the outside world out and you get to be in the space on that retreat with with people who are just carrying you.
SPEAKER_05: That's powerful.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: So for me it was that was very, very pivotal.
SPEAKER_05: And what would you say because you out of the three of us, you're the only one with adult children.
SPEAKER_05: They're in college.
SPEAKER_05: And so um you know, that domestic church.
SPEAKER_05: You you and Alfred did a really good job in having that domestic church in your house.
SPEAKER_05: But how do you think that that impacts them in their understanding that you are church and and that in you need to now go to a community to continue to be church?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: Because your kids are different, right?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're all different.
SPEAKER_02: Um two have graduated from college already, one is a senior in college, so they're they're moving along with their lives.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're from 28 to 21.
SPEAKER_02: So um I think you as parents instill these values in your children and you show them that this is what we do as a family.
SPEAKER_02: This is our faith.
SPEAKER_02: We practice our faith.
SPEAKER_02: We go to mass on Sunday, we participate in myriad ways that the This is who we are as a family.
SPEAKER_02: This is who we are.
SPEAKER_02: And and there's a lot of talk, as you know, like when people go out of town, some people feel like, oh, when I'm out of town, or I'm traveling to go to a tournament.
SPEAKER_02: I don't I can't get to church, or I don't need to go to church.
SPEAKER_02: But we were always like, we're gonna find a way to go to mass because this is who we are, because that's what we felt was important for us and for our kids.
SPEAKER_05: Any pushback from any of the kids uh at any ages?
SPEAKER_05: Uh I don't want to go to church.
SPEAKER_02: I don't think we're really it was more like hurry up.
SPEAKER_05: Maybe that's pretty normal.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: Three daughters, it was like you could hear somebody yelling, that's my ponytail holder, that's my hairbrush.
SPEAKER_02: It was like, hurry up, just get in the car.
SPEAKER_05: But did you wish you were still there?
SPEAKER_02: Oh, of course.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I miss those moments.
SPEAKER_02: I miss those moments.
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I think too, like, you know, we were very fortunate to grow to raise the kids here in Miami with extended family, with that sense of of your faith is important.
SPEAKER_02: This is what we do collectively, all of us.
SPEAKER_02: I sent them to Catholic school, and then they learned a lot about service through that.
SPEAKER_02: It's just like it's just ingrained.
SPEAKER_05: Right.
SPEAKER_02: So as women, they are very passionate about service and serving others and and living and living a good life.
SPEAKER_05: And that's the whole thing.
SPEAKER_05: And my hope was that that it is ingrained, and if it's not ingrained, let's get it ingrained in some of the even adults.
SPEAKER_05: Uh because what I was trying to say in the homily too is that there's gonna be cracks.
SPEAKER_05: Just like there's cracks in the church, there's gonna be cracks in your own life, and there's gonna be uh wood beams in your heart or uh whatever it is that there's this need for constant renewal, refurbishing, renewing, restoring.
SPEAKER_05: Um and I think that that speaks if we're able to really say this is where the area in my life that needs help, right?
SPEAKER_05: Then I I can be that community, I can be that church, even within my home, with my husband, my wife, my children, but then in the greater scheme of a community that's growing in faith and and challenging each other and being accountable to each other, right?
SPEAKER_05: Um, because this the community like ours, it can't just be stagnant.
SPEAKER_05: Um it it has to to really have members of the faith that are challenging and that are growing with each other uh and serving.
SPEAKER_05: We we I think we've done a good job to challenge people and offer opportunities to serve because that is another component of it.
SPEAKER_05: Faith has to be faith in action, and we saw that this weekend with this trip.
SPEAKER_05: Um but it it's all part of I am church, I am the church.
SPEAKER_05: And it it's it's far beyond just our little beautiful, little cozy church that we have of you know, bricks and walls and floors.
SPEAKER_02: Right.
SPEAKER_02: And it's not just being in that building, your church all the time.
SPEAKER_05: Right.
SPEAKER_02: Right?
SPEAKER_02: You come there to get renewed and to go to mass and to to gather, but that's doesn't stop and start when you walk in and out of the door.
SPEAKER_05: You know how I see that?
SPEAKER_05: Sometimes I see that like when we do Edmanos a la calle, like we're out in downtown Miami, and I'm just looking at some of the some of our kids or adults that are kind of shy that are but then I see them kind of stepping out of their own and and talking to someone by themselves or bringing a sandwich to someone, I'm like, wow, our church is beautiful, our church is growing, and this right here, we're just this little group right here, this is the church.
SPEAKER_05: This is Catholic.
SPEAKER_05: Where are you guys from?
SPEAKER_05: We're from St.
SPEAKER_05: Augustine's Catholic Church, but we're it's this is who we are, right?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that the church isn't confined to the building, but it's it's the people.
SPEAKER_00: And I think way more.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and even in the example that you gave um of the lady with the broom, I mean she just knew that in her bones.
SPEAKER_00: She did know that in the bones.
SPEAKER_00: The church it the building itself will come and go, but it's the people.
SPEAKER_00: And um and I think for us, uh I don't know, some people I think have the tendency to be very individualistic individualistic and think like, okay, well that's the church over there.
SPEAKER_00: And um I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: I I think we talked about this a couple weeks ago of if everyone could play their part, like what a difference we would make in our local community.
SPEAKER_00: Like if we're if people were willing to take that broom to their own soul, like you were talking about in your homily, to really um to clean house but and to allow the Lord to do like that restoration within so that we can together come and build like a beautiful thing for God, but yeah through our community.
SPEAKER_00: I I like if I could add, and I wrote it down in your homie.
SPEAKER_02: I took notes.
SPEAKER_02: I knew I was gonna be on the show.
SPEAKER_02: Let me let me take some notes.
SPEAKER_02: Um, which is you know, and you know what, in a massive guess if you see people on their phone sometimes, maybe they're taking notes.
SPEAKER_02: They are.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're taking notes.
SPEAKER_02: What you said, and I want to you mention it again, and you said, what will we add?
SPEAKER_02: Do we add beauty or do we add to the cracks and the leaks?
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's like important for us to feel, and Michelle and I were talking about this, is no matter what space you're in, to bring beauty and light.
SPEAKER_02: Do you bring light or do you bring negativity?
SPEAKER_02: And then I think too, as Christians, like also give yourself some grace because we're not always on our, we're not always our best.
SPEAKER_02: We're human, right?
SPEAKER_02: And so if you feel like maybe you weren't the best in a situation, you can always go back and apologize, or you just do better next time.
SPEAKER_02: But give yourself grace.
SPEAKER_02: Don't think it has to be all or nothing, like, oh, I'm failing, I'm failing as a Christian, I'm not.
SPEAKER_02: No, give yourself grace.
SPEAKER_02: You've decided to to be a Christian, you've decided to to maybe follow your Catholic faith, and so good for you.
SPEAKER_02: And we're here as a community to help support you when you feel weak or you can't, or we need to pray for you.
SPEAKER_02: That's that's one of the beauties.
SPEAKER_02: That getting back to the Emmaus retreat, I'm still on a text message with my sisters, and we will pray for each other all the time.
SPEAKER_02: And it's very, it's very powerful.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's the whole walking together.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: And and learning from each other.
SPEAKER_05: And you know, you made a a comment there about uh the church has leaks, or uh are we repairing our are we looking at our ugliness, our our our sinfulness, or even our weaknesses.
SPEAKER_05: I I think that a good self-awareness goes a long way.
SPEAKER_05: Because we're gonna fail, we're gonna have our bad days and we're gonna be short, we're gonna be impatient, and we're I gonna be just ugly, and and that's where okay.
SPEAKER_05: You you said it, you pick yourself up, you can turn this around, uh go to confession or whatever it is you need to do, but nip it in the bud and say, No, this is not who I am.
SPEAKER_05: I'm a Christian and I I love I love the Lord and I wanna serve him well and I wanna make him proud.
SPEAKER_00: And um and so yeah, that's yeah, and and you were mentioning in your homily, and I think this is just relevant in our conversation, is there's um sometimes we can be like, oh well, let the bishops do that, or like you know, a posture of like complaining or being, you know, nic n nitpicking like what's going on in the church that's that you don't like, or like if this was better.
SPEAKER_00: Um and I know I I've talked to a lot of people who have the first comment, and I've said this myself in the beginning of my walk of like, well, I'm not gonna go to church because like they're all hip hip hypocrites anyways, you know, like they're all you know, whatever, whatever.
SPEAKER_00: But being able to um again like take our accountability of our own self and sweep our own corner of the church and like if like that's it.
SPEAKER_00: That's why you have to be responsible for it's not everyone else.
SPEAKER_00: But it's like you're yes, you're part of the church that you need to clean house and be a living stone that actually brings beauty and fruit.
SPEAKER_05: Um And there's the other flip of that coin too, is where oh they're they're too holy there at that church.
SPEAKER_05: I don't belong there.
SPEAKER_05: I uh you know, I've made some really major mistakes, I've not been the best Christian, so I'm not gonna go.
SPEAKER_05: Well, that's a cop out too.
SPEAKER_05: Right?
SPEAKER_05: And um so you're right.
SPEAKER_05: I think that that there has to be this understanding of okay, well, is it about Jesus Christ?
SPEAKER_05: And do I understand that that He's the foundation to all of this?
SPEAKER_05: Um and what does that mean?
SPEAKER_05: Or sometimes we just we love excuses just to be able to do whatever it is that we want to do.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: But but for the person who's really maybe people watching this and they are really hard on themselves, what do what do you say to them?
SPEAKER_05: Well, you know, that happens a lot, and uh there's all all different levels to that because there's scrupulosity, there's uh sometimes it's it's excessive.
SPEAKER_05: And that's where I think that uh you need to sit with a spiritual director, you need to sit with uh someone that you trust, a mentor or a priest that that can look or or listen to you and say, look, you're being too hard.
SPEAKER_05: I think the sacrament of reconciliation can help you, or let's let's look at it this way.
SPEAKER_05: Um but I in those instances I think that an outside voice needs to come in there and help you kind of get out of that funk.
SPEAKER_05: Because when you are too hard on yourself, that's you're not allowing grace.
SPEAKER_05: And what it ultimately what that is is that you're the one that wants to be in control.
SPEAKER_05: Right?
SPEAKER_05: It's prideful, it's I I know better, I know, and no, don't worry about it, I know what I need to do.
SPEAKER_05: And so it it it's it's all about control.
SPEAKER_05: And um and so that's when someone else can come around and say, uh, let me pinpoint or let me tell you what I see.
SPEAKER_05: And and that can sometimes pull the person out of it.
SPEAKER_05: Right?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_00: Um spiritual insight, and I think um Think God, we have I mean, we need community.
SPEAKER_00: It goes back to the fact of like we need a church to belong to, uh a community to be a part of helping us grow, especially in areas that we are blind to, or we need that extra help to be pulled out of, you know, seeing things in a certain in a certain way.
SPEAKER_00: Um Father, one of the things from your homily that I wanted to mention when you talked about the the actual basilica in Rome, I love how you mentioned like that it's been there through history.
SPEAKER_00: So like earthquakes, fires, like it has had seen it's it seemed like every storm possible.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: Um but yet it's still beautiful, and it's even more beautiful because it has had deconstruction, reconstruction, like in and out.
SPEAKER_00: Can you share a little bit, like relate that to like the beauty of just our own journey?
SPEAKER_00: And like that's back to us.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and we've been we we've kind of been talking about that about community and do we understand that we are the church and not just the building itself.
SPEAKER_05: And what I meant by that is that through the centuries, people have built upon other basilicas.
SPEAKER_05: Like even from the ancient basilica, there's been add-ons and repairs and uh, like you said, earthquakes, fires, everything that you can imagine, but they have contributed to this beautiful masterpiece that sits there that people are visiting at this moment right now, going through a holy door.
SPEAKER_05: And um, and so the reason why I mentioned that is that we need to understand as living stones that contribute, right, to a church that is growing, that is thriving, that is alive.
SPEAKER_05: Again, I'm not talking about the physical building, I'm talking about as living stones.
SPEAKER_05: How do you contribute to a church that is alive and thriving?
SPEAKER_05: Because I I love the St.
SPEAKER_05: Augustine's that so many people are saying that I feel alive.
SPEAKER_05: I feel that I I come to serve, that I I have something to give, or that you guys offer this, whatever.
SPEAKER_05: And I'm not talking about, oh, St.
SPEAKER_05: Augustine's is the best parish in the church.
SPEAKER_05: That's the only church that I know that I can give a little bit of context and I can a little bit share my experience with what people are telling me, right?
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: And um, and so it's a beautiful thing when you can see someone come on a can come out of this.
SPEAKER_05: I was just a Sunday churchgoer that really didn't do anything.
SPEAKER_05: It was just Sunday one hour and that's it.
SPEAKER_05: And now you see people that are really involved in their ministries, people that are are going out of their way to do all these other service projects.
SPEAKER_05: Why?
SPEAKER_05: Because they see themselves as this beautiful member of a community that is a church.
SPEAKER_05: And again, I'm not talking about a building.
SPEAKER_05: And so my question to you that are listening is how are you part of a living stone?
SPEAKER_05: And you said it earlier, it's like, well, I don't want to be someone also too that that tears down the building or contributes to a bigger crack or to a leak.
SPEAKER_05: I want to be someone that's constantly repairing and and coming over and oh, let me heal that up.
SPEAKER_05: And because if you're that type of living stone, then you're adding to the beauty.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: Right?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: And I think what you're sharing too is the different ways, at least in our kind of local experience of it here, is um I feel like we've done uh an intentional job to tell people like that we care.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: Like we want you to be here, like you're welcomed, you're loved, and like you have a part to play in like what God is doing in our local community and place.
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like people desire that and long for it, but they don't ever hear it very well, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And their experience of church is very distant.
SPEAKER_00: Like they go or they or it's more like consumer attitude sometimes of like, okay, I'm gonna go and get what I need and go home instead of like, no, come because you belong here.
SPEAKER_00: And you have some a gift to give that no one else can give, and like we need you.
SPEAKER_00: We want you.
SPEAKER_05: And that that needs to be reminded, uh, that needs to be given to the people in the sense that in this very competitive world and on our busyness and our distractions, that's the mentality is okay, consumerism, okay, I'm just gonna consume this, and it's one thing among many things, and uh we gotta break from that.
SPEAKER_05: It this is your church experience, your life in the church is completely different than anything else that you do in the day or in your office.
SPEAKER_05: It can't be just one thing among the many things that you do.
SPEAKER_05: Being church is completely different.
SPEAKER_05: How is Sunday sacred?
SPEAKER_05: Is Sunday sacred to you?
SPEAKER_05: And then does that spill over into other things that you're gonna do or in how you plan your week ahead uh in the different uh ministries or apostolates that you're involved with?
SPEAKER_05: You're in a you're involved in a lot of different apostolates in the church.
SPEAKER_05: So it's not just Sunday Mass, right?
SPEAKER_05: And um, but that was that something that was part of you prior to Emmaus or that that kind of Emmaus kick-started that desire to be more involved.
SPEAKER_02: But it was after Emmaus that I ended up doing so much more.
SPEAKER_05: Now, did your uh husband go through Emmaus?
SPEAKER_05: Because he has the same spirit that you do.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he did too.
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
SPEAKER_02: I went first, he went second.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: A lot of spouses do that.
SPEAKER_02: One will go first and they're so moved by it that they encourage the other spouse to go so that you can kind of be on the same playing, you know, level playing field.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: You're gonna you're gonna be happy about this because um something I I haven't mentioned this Sunday when I was in Cuba, the priest there said had it not been for Emmaus, we would be in a different type of recovery mode because they said that because they've been doing so many Emmaus retreats, that these Emmaus teams are now the ones organizing everything.
SPEAKER_05: On the island.
SPEAKER_05: Wow.
SPEAKER_05: And these are Emmaus retreats that were started from parishioners here in in Miami from different parishes that went down to Cuba, and the bishops themselves are saying what an impact that is doing in the church.
SPEAKER_05: Because remember, it's a communist country still, a very deeply communist country.
SPEAKER_05: They don't want the church, they don't want people going to mass.
SPEAKER_05: And so um they have to figure out how to gain space within the Catholic world in this very hostile environment.
SPEAKER_05: And so Emmaus has been very successful.
SPEAKER_05: Why?
SPEAKER_05: Because you have this retreat experience and and the pastors are being are able to say to these people, okay, within everything all of this, now how do we go out and be church in a hostile world?
SPEAKER_05: Think outside the box with no resources, but you're being called to mission even within a mission territory.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: What a great point.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05: And so this priest on this weekend was making it the point to say, wow, these teams are now the ones who are organizing themselves and helping neighbors.
SPEAKER_01: That's extraordinary.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: It's it's it was powerful.
SPEAKER_05: And I think Why because remember, communism, uh, you know, they are taught from very early on is it's the individual.
SPEAKER_05: You were talking about that earlier.
SPEAKER_05: The individual, it's it's worry about you and and everybody else, forget about everybody else.
SPEAKER_05: It's you, you, you.
SPEAKER_05: But I think that the human condition is no we we're we're the best when when we're together.
SPEAKER_05: Together.
SPEAKER_05: We're united.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we're gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_05: We're called to help someone else.
SPEAKER_05: That's true.
SPEAKER_05: You were gonna say something, Pamela.
SPEAKER_02: No, I just quickly Wanted to say when you were talking about and and Michelle too inviting people and it's not just Sunday Mass, it's more than that.
SPEAKER_04: Right.
SPEAKER_02: And I think once you go and you allow yourself to get involved, even if you just go to one thing or dip your toe, you're gonna be so surprised at that almost magical feeling that you have.
SPEAKER_02: You're just you feel so full and filled.
SPEAKER_02: Clearly, that's the Holy Spirit working within you to get you excited about continuing to come back and you meet other people and you create community and friendship, and it just continues to reinforce.
SPEAKER_05: Well, you know, there are some parishioners that I've been trying to get them out to do some sort of mission work or to be involved in a ministry and apostle.
SPEAKER_05: How do I get those people to just trust and go do a ministry or something?
SPEAKER_02: Free food?
SPEAKER_02: No.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05: Like a little bit of an incentive to but I think I think maybe something that you just said is just try it.
SPEAKER_05: Just try it.
SPEAKER_05: And you're gonna see that it's something fulfilling and wonderful.
SPEAKER_05: And uh because I I think that saying it you guys are tired of me saying it can't be just a Sunday thing where I put gas in the car and then that's it, wait till the next Sunday again.
SPEAKER_05: Um we've we've been trying to create an environment where there's something going on all the time and you can fit in.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: And maybe, Pam, as we're wrapping up, I would love to hear from you um kind of this theme of being a living stone and rebuilding.
SPEAKER_00: What are some things maybe after the Amace that have like really impacted you for that reconstruction yourself?
SPEAKER_00: You know, like what are things that help to to grow in your arm of service, to grow in like just different areas of your faith?
SPEAKER_02: Well, one of the things that impacted me immediately afterwards, and I think this happens to a lot of retreatants, is you are so hungry that you want to go to daily mass, you you can't get enough.
SPEAKER_02: You want to just keep meeting with your sisters who you who you connected with, and you want to continue to grow spiritually.
SPEAKER_02: Um so just for me personally, and then after a retreat, you have that retreat experience where you're on such a high, and then like everything it kind of goes back down and life becomes complicated again.
SPEAKER_02: But that for me was really the kickstart of making sure and and leaning into wanting to go to daily mass, me going to adoration, um getting more involved in different philanthropy.
SPEAKER_02: I'm on the board of Catholic Leadership Institute.
SPEAKER_05: I was on the board of Legatus, and I helped to bring in all of the speakers and um, but I'm gonna get I'm gonna help you with because I know your life, and so I know my life something that has been something that's been so impactful in Pam's life is they have had this small group of of Bible study for reminding us that.
SPEAKER_05: And they are so strong in the faith from from from a long time ago.
SPEAKER_05: I mean they were doing Bible study when people were not doing Bible study.
SPEAKER_02: So it's a reflection group, and we started it um after I was going through the baptism training for my middle child.
SPEAKER_02: So she's 25, so it gives you an idea of how long we've been doing it.
SPEAKER_02: And a couple talked to us about reflection group and getting like-minded people who are of the same age, kids the same age together and grow together in your faith.
SPEAKER_02: So we were like, oh, we should do that.
SPEAKER_02: And we started that with three other couples, so we're four couples, and we literally have been meeting all those years, once a month, having dinner together and and sharing.
SPEAKER_02: And one couple comes with the topic and then we debate and talk, and sometimes those meetings have gotten heated, sometimes we've cried, but it's been powerful because we've been walking on this journey of life together through different stages.
SPEAKER_05: And that's what I want to communicate to people.
SPEAKER_05: Find something that's gonna anchor you, that's really going to anchor your faith and that sustains you through hard times and uh difficult times and beautiful times.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: Um and I knew that that's been something in your life that's been huge for both of you.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, and that's church at home.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's like that's like the beautiful part of it.
SPEAKER_02: And our kids have seen that, Michelle.
SPEAKER_02: The kids, all the kids of the couples have seen that.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02: And that and actually, one of the one of the girls of the couple has uh started her own reflection group.
SPEAKER_02: So it is being passed on.
SPEAKER_02: She she wanted to do that, she's married now and she wanted to do that.
SPEAKER_02: So we're like, wow, we actually made a PDF.
SPEAKER_02: We're like, we need to give them like a little maybe playbook about how to do it.
SPEAKER_05: Well, you uh your group has been successful, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00: That's wonderful.
SPEAKER_00: Well, we are out of time.
SPEAKER_05: Well, I just want to say that I'm gonna just give some cloth closing words.
SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna say, you know, the Basilica of St.
SPEAKER_05: John Lateran has been rebuilt many times.
SPEAKER_05: You mentioned that.
SPEAKER_05: But the church has also been rebuilt many times.
SPEAKER_05: And um and so so must we.
SPEAKER_05: We have to be continually fighting to rebuild and to repurpose ourselves.
SPEAKER_05: Why?
SPEAKER_05: Because the roof may collapse, the walls may fall, but as long as we are believers who keep sweeping that foundation, keep sweeping, get keep that broom in your hand, the church always rises and Jesus Christ always triumphs.
SPEAKER_05: So Amen.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: Pam, thanks for joining us this week.
SPEAKER_00: This was a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm glad you were here.
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
SPEAKER_00: Wonderful.
SPEAKER_00: So share the video, share it with someone that might be inspired today, and uh we'll see you next week.