SPEAKER_00: Welcome everyone to Heart of the Homily.
SPEAKER_00: My name is Michelle Lopez.
SPEAKER_00: I'm one of your hosts.
SPEAKER_00: I'm here with Father Ragoa.
SPEAKER_01: How are you doing, Michelle?
SPEAKER_00: Doing great, Father.
SPEAKER_00: Happy Easter still.
SPEAKER_01: Happy Easter.
SPEAKER_01: I thought Divine Mercy Sunday was so beautiful.
SPEAKER_01: And great crowds again.
SPEAKER_01: And I love that we do that procession and uh holy hour.
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's a lot of work.
SPEAKER_01: It's uh in on Sunday.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Um but did you see what a huge crowd came?
SPEAKER_01: I really thought that not that many people would come.
SPEAKER_01: And I get it.
SPEAKER_01: Sunday's hard.
SPEAKER_01: It's like two comments.
SPEAKER_01: You come to mass, you have your things, you have your uh Sunday lunch.
SPEAKER_01: Really impressed.
SPEAKER_00: So beautiful.
SPEAKER_00: And a beautiful way to just remember it in the Easter season.
SPEAKER_00: And the mercy is abundant.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So, which goes into kind of what we're talking about today.
SPEAKER_00: So uh Divine Mercy Sunday, the reading is from the Gospel of John 20, and this is an incredible scene where Jesus shows up through the balls into the upper room where they are and reveals his wounds to Thomas, who is doubting.
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's a just a little snippet into the gospel, and that's what we're kind of opening up to.
SPEAKER_00: And Father, you're you started with another question this week, and you did it on Easter Sunday, which was very powerful.
SPEAKER_00: And this week, um, the question I think got even more deeper.
SPEAKER_00: So it did.
SPEAKER_01: And I one of the things that I said, do I do another question?
SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01: Because it was such a hit for Sunday morning.
SPEAKER_01: People really resonated with I got a lot of great feedback.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I said, you know what?
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna do another question this Sunday, but it's gonna be stronger, deeper.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, well, it felt that way.
SPEAKER_00: It felt that way.
SPEAKER_00: And actually, so the bold question was what is the one part of your life you hope stays hidden?
SPEAKER_00: Why was it important to begin their father?
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that when you a priest sits in the confessional, this is something that you hear a lot.
SPEAKER_01: Or here's the thing like someone who has come back to the faith, or someone who really wasn't all into uh discipleship or growing.
SPEAKER_01: They go to confession maybe once a year, which is cool.
SPEAKER_01: But then when you start really engaging and and wanting a deeper relationship with the Lord, you come to find out real quick that you gotta go deeper.
SPEAKER_01: And there are things there you're so ashamed and and think that they're so beyond God's mercy that you will leave it there.
SPEAKER_01: And so I really thought, I gotta tackle this head on because everyone struggles with this, right?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think the gospel was the perfect setup for it because it's you know, they're they're locked away.
SPEAKER_00: So like locked doors, which the places that you're talking about in someone's life, and even in my my own experience, it literally is that it's like you kind of lock it away integrally as if God can't get there, you know, or or he doesn't see it.
SPEAKER_00: But but that's the beauty is even those places that are locked and chained away, that's what divine mercy is all about, is that even those places God wants to touch and free and bring healing.
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01: And here's the thing: what you keep in the dark doesn't disappear.
SPEAKER_01: People think it'll oh, just uh I'm not gonna touch it, let me leave it there.
SPEAKER_01: But what happens is that those things that you keep in the dark, those things that you keep hidden, they grow, they shape your decisions, it affects every relationship they have, the way you treat people, the way you react.
SPEAKER_01: Um, and also it limits your freedom.
SPEAKER_01: And so we I I think that everybody kind of lives in this tension that we want to be known, but we're afraid to be seen because if if someone really knew my darkest secrets or the habits that I engage in, or some of the sins that I've been dealing with, they would not treat me the same, or they would see me as just how I see me sometimes, which is what the enemy wants me to see.
SPEAKER_01: Wants how the enemy wants me to see myself.
SPEAKER_01: And that's not divine mercy.
SPEAKER_01: Divine mercy is no, let me break that open for you so that you can be free.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's and it's beautiful to think about that.
SPEAKER_00: Um, nothing is beyond God's grasp.
SPEAKER_00: And divine mercy, when we celebrate that, is it's mercy that's divine, like beyond our human understanding and capacities, but it's divine mercy, like places where only God can can touch.
SPEAKER_01: Right.
SPEAKER_01: And one of the things I think you touched upon it uh when we began today is we find the apostles behind locked doors, right?
SPEAKER_01: And um that was one of the questions that I asked.
SPEAKER_01: What are what's that locked door?
SPEAKER_01: Well, we've been talking about it a little bit now, but what is what do you what do you keep behind a locked door?
SPEAKER_01: And the beauty about divine mercy is that he's gonna come anyway.
SPEAKER_01: Whether you try to lock him out or not, he's gonna come anyway, and he's gonna say to you, peace be with you.
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to keep you in this sin.
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to keep you in this disaster.
SPEAKER_01: I'm coming precisely in this wound so that I can free you, right?
SPEAKER_01: And what happens is that when we have these locked doors, there's a lot of shame, there's a lot of disappointment, there's that darkness.
SPEAKER_01: And I think that something that I was thinking about when I was writing this is if you go all the way back to Genesis, this is all the way from the very beginning.
SPEAKER_01: Adam and Eve sin, and what's the first thing that they do?
SPEAKER_01: They hide.
SPEAKER_01: Not because God disappears, but because they do, right?
SPEAKER_01: And they cover themselves, they withdraw, they step back from the relationship.
SPEAKER_01: Why?
SPEAKER_01: Because something enters the human heart at that moment.
SPEAKER_01: What is it?
SPEAKER_01: Shame.
SPEAKER_01: And shame does something very specific.
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't just say, I did something wrong.
SPEAKER_01: It says, if you really knew me, you wouldn't love me.
SPEAKER_01: And so they hide and they build a life around that concept.
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people do.
SPEAKER_01: I think that that's our human nature.
SPEAKER_01: When we feel shame, when we feel guilt, we manage it, we try to control it, we curate what people see.
SPEAKER_01: We have this beautiful image.
SPEAKER_01: I think I think in our social media world that we live in too, people are very good at masquerading and putting out there what you want the world to see.
SPEAKER_01: But even spirituality, we can do this.
SPEAKER_01: We can go to mass, we can say our prayers, we can do the right things, look very holy, but there's still part of us that says, that's not my part.
SPEAKER_01: That's that's just the part that I put out there, like I put out on social media, because I still have this brokenness, I still have these wounds that I don't know how to deal with it.
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I hopefully I was trying to deal, to uh bring it to light.
SPEAKER_01: And and even through this podcast, through some of the conversations that you and I have had, is how do we really allow people to start talking about it so that they bring it to confession?
SPEAKER_01: Because what you bring to the light, what you bring to truth, there's gonna be healing.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and kind of two two things come to mind, Father, as you're sharing is I feel like sometimes in people's journey, um, either kind of that shame or what's locked away is either something like they're currently engaging in that they're shameful, right?
SPEAKER_00: That they don't want they don't know if God can reach them there.
SPEAKER_00: Or and then sometimes I think the things that are locked away are from the past or mistakes or way we treated someone or something that happened that you know we're we're not there anymore, so we don't want to think about it.
SPEAKER_00: But sometimes it's still bringing us anxiety and shame today.
SPEAKER_00: And I think with both of those um situations and circumstances, the the cure is the same, you know, it's bringing it to light and being able to not be afraid to look at it and give it over to Christ and entrust it to his mercy.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you had any comments on like what would be um, whether it's a current thing or thing of the past, like what are steps to bring it into the light?
SPEAKER_00: So confession is one, and then what are other ways to just kind of um I don't know, because I feel like there's a natural like shoving under, like a natural hiding that happens out of fear, but what would be some things to just bring it out?
SPEAKER_01: That's a very good question because I had someone who after mass asked me the same thing in the sense that and if I'm understanding you correctly, but she was saying that I've gone to confession, but I still don't feel forgiven.
SPEAKER_01: Right.
SPEAKER_01: And so um what I want to do here now is maybe maybe what we should talk about is what does the church actually teach about when we go to confession, right?
SPEAKER_01: So the church, what she teaches is that your sins are truly forgiven.
SPEAKER_01: We got to understand that.
SPEAKER_01: That the guilt is gone and your relationship with God is restored.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so those three points the church teaches.
SPEAKER_01: That's absolute.
SPEAKER_01: But something that I think is crucial and what people are struggling with is that the effect of sin can remain.
SPEAKER_01: So that residual is still there, right?
SPEAKER_01: Let me like let me give you an example.
SPEAKER_01: Like, let's say I we go out, we're gonna go play, uh, we're playing baseball with kids, and one of the kids breaks a window.
SPEAKER_01: I can be super sorry and ask for forgiving me.
SPEAKER_01: Oh, please, I didn't mean to break your window.
SPEAKER_01: I feel horrible about it.
SPEAKER_01: But something still needs to be done in order to repair that window, right?
SPEAKER_01: I can you can say, oh, don't worry about it.
SPEAKER_01: It was just a window, it could be repaired, you know, it's just money, whatever, but it needs to be repaired.
SPEAKER_01: So there's two effects of sin, and the church makes a very key distinction.
SPEAKER_01: Uh, the first is eternal punishment.
SPEAKER_01: So that's guilt.
SPEAKER_01: This is that this is what's removed in the confessional, and you are reconciled with God.
SPEAKER_01: So that is that's the first, though those are the two effects of sin.
SPEAKER_01: First is eternal punishment.
SPEAKER_01: This is the remove, this is removed in confession, and you're reconciled back with God.
SPEAKER_01: Your your relationship is all put back intact.
SPEAKER_01: Now, there's the temporal punishment, which is the effects of sin.
SPEAKER_01: So eternal punishment is guilt.
SPEAKER_01: I hope you're following me on this.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, keep going.
SPEAKER_01: So the eternal punishment is the guilt.
SPEAKER_01: This is removed in confession.
SPEAKER_01: Also, you're reconciled with God.
SPEAKER_01: And then the second part of this is temporal punishment, which is the effects of sin.
SPEAKER_01: And that's what can remain.
SPEAKER_01: That's what that's why we need healing.
SPEAKER_01: There's purification and restoration.
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people say, I have these deep wounds or I have these scars.
SPEAKER_01: That's what happens.
SPEAKER_01: Why?
SPEAKER_01: Because there are consequences to sin.
SPEAKER_01: So how do we repair what we're talking about?
SPEAKER_01: Because there this is important for people who are listening and saying, okay, how do we repair this?
SPEAKER_01: Like, how do we repair that window, right?
SPEAKER_01: I got to repair that window.
SPEAKER_01: Well, one penance, the act you do after confession, when that's why it's so important.
SPEAKER_01: I give people penance at in confession.
SPEAKER_01: I say, Don't forget to go do your penance because that's how we repair.
SPEAKER_01: We we the act you do after pen after confession, then not to earn forgiveness, but to begin the healing of damage.
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm doing my penance because this is what the father gave me in order to begin the repair.
SPEAKER_01: And then, two is purgatory, which is the final per uh purification after death, not punishment in a negative sense.
SPEAKER_01: That's not what I want you to understand it, but a completion of healing.
SPEAKER_01: I remember there was something about Benedict XVI saying that no one is ready to stand in the presence of God in the sense that there has to be this purification of all this residual uh of what the effects of sin.
SPEAKER_01: And then, third, something good.
SPEAKER_01: I we've talked about this before in the past is our indulgences.
SPEAKER_01: This is where um an indulgence is a remission of the temporal effects of sin, right?
SPEAKER_01: Through Christ's merit, through the communion of saints, through the authority of the church.
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people, when they're dealing with their sins and they go to confession, they have to understand these two effects of sin, the eternal punishment, which is the guilt, and then the temporal punishment, which the effects of sin.
SPEAKER_01: So there can be effects of sin, and a lot of people deal with that.
SPEAKER_01: Like I had, I did, I made this huge mistake, I I had this uh big sin in my life.
SPEAKER_01: It's already been forgiven, but I still feel the effects of it.
SPEAKER_01: And that's where we need to work with people to bring healing because that's a wound, right?
SPEAKER_00: And I think even you bringing this up and clarifying things, that's all of us.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: That's all of us, which that's the beauty of this journey of Christian discipleship, is that the journey is not just me and Jesus forward, but it's me and Jesus forward, and then back through the whole all the areas of my life that need this deeper healing, that need this the rigid residual of sin to be healed and touched by his grace.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think sometimes we don't think that we think like, oh, okay, I went to confession and like it should be over, where it's like this is some of the beginning of a deeper healing, of like the heart surgery that needs to happen with time to get to those wounds so that freedom may go not just on the surface but to the depths of where the hurt was.
SPEAKER_01: Makes absolute sense.
SPEAKER_01: And I I think that to just make your to to add to your point is what needs to be very, very clear is that you're not half forgiven.
SPEAKER_01: A lot of people think that they're half forgiven.
SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's full fullness of forgiveness.
SPEAKER_01: You're fully forgiven, but not yet fully healed.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and Father, I think about my my I'm in my own journey.
SPEAKER_00: Like confession has been so crucial in my own journey of healing and holiness, but it came with what you're talking about, which like confession, going to confession, knowing I was forgiven of sin, began a deeper healing journey for me.
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like it because I knew that God forgave me, and then the healing journey was allowing that to seep down into my wounds and seep down into these places that you know, confession started the process of something that was so deep that I actually didn't know what I was getting myself into.
SPEAKER_00: I think when I started going coming back to the faith and going to confession regularly and really allowing just God's grace and mercy to touch areas to bring freedom and healing to the whole of my story.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's the beautiful part of what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_01: And I and that that's a very good point in the sense that that's why I tell people don't wait a year or two years to go to confession.
SPEAKER_01: If you're going monthly or every three weeks or every six weeks, every eight weeks, you're gonna be able to really make progress in the sense that you're really taking into account of what are your sins, where are you failing, where are you disappointing the Lord, but also be able to go back and heal some of these other wounds and and some of this other guilt.
SPEAKER_01: It it's it all comes together.
SPEAKER_01: So you're absolutely right.
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's very needed, and that's something that, and hopefully, people can understand that you're not half forgiven, but don't be afraid to come to confession often to heal and to talk about some of these wounds or to talk about some of the sins that we keep falling into that cause others, other wounds or compound the wounds that are already there.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think what you're saying too is is not being afraid to come come often, even if it's with these things that you're wrestling with.
SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's the place to bring them all as God works out uh his mercy in those areas of of woundedness.
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
SPEAKER_00: Um so beautiful, so good.
SPEAKER_00: What mercy.
SPEAKER_01: Well, even Augustine, I I I'm thinking now, um Augustine said something like the church has received the keys of the kingdom that sins um may be forgiven through her.
SPEAKER_01: So from the very early on, this idea of the importance of why did Jesus breathe on these apostles?
SPEAKER_01: Why did he say, Who's for whose sins you forgive are forgiven?
SPEAKER_01: And that was what I was trying to drive home in the homily, in the sense that Jesus knew.
SPEAKER_01: And it goes to what we've just been talking about, because our minds want to discount it or discredit, or um, because Jesus knew that we needed something very concrete, other than just something symbolic or inspirational, where we're saying, Oh, well, Jesus will forgive your sins.
SPEAKER_01: Don't worry, come to Jesus and He'll No, Jesus is, I am giving you the authority, the church, to forgive sins.
SPEAKER_01: Why?
SPEAKER_01: You're receiving a sacrament.
SPEAKER_01: And in that sacrament, your sins are forgiven.
SPEAKER_01: Where the authority of the church, you hear those beautiful words, I absolve you of your sins.
SPEAKER_01: So a very, very important, a very important point because that is Christ speaking now in real time.
SPEAKER_01: And this is where people struggle because they say, Why do I have to go to a priest?
SPEAKER_01: Why can't I just go directly to God?
SPEAKER_01: I can just go in the mirror.
SPEAKER_01: Hey, um, Jesus, I did this, this, and that.
SPEAKER_01: And the answer is you can, you should, but Jesus chose to give you more than that.
SPEAKER_01: He chose to give you certainty.
SPEAKER_01: And that certainty is through a sacrament that you receive.
SPEAKER_01: And that I want that certainty, right?
SPEAKER_01: I want to be, I don't want to leave it to my own doing.
SPEAKER_01: I want to be able to say, no, this is what Christ left to the church, right?
SPEAKER_01: Left to the world as a gift of mercy, a font of mercy in that confessional.
SPEAKER_01: You should walk by the confessional there at church and look at it and say, wow, that fountain is amazing.
SPEAKER_01: Look at all the mercy that pours out of that.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and Father, I can so attest to that.
SPEAKER_00: I remember when I came back to the church in college, um, came back into my faith, and I went to my first confession for from like 15 years before.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I remember I was so excited and also scared for confession, but I was very excited because I I knew and loved Jesus for like two years before that in a non-denominational church.
SPEAKER_00: When I came back into the Catholic faith, the sacraments were so such rich treasures for me.
SPEAKER_00: But I remember being like, I know Jesus forgives me.
SPEAKER_00: I've said it in my prayers, but I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: I doubt I just doubted, you know, I had human doubt.
SPEAKER_00: And then when I went to confession and learned what the sacrament was, I was like, this is what I've needed.
SPEAKER_00: I've need I can't, I can't just do it me and Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Like I needed the church to say those words to me, to let me also speak out loud um the things in darkness.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, the grace and the mercy and the transformation that started to happen through confession was so palpable for me because it was the guarantee that when I walked out of here, like I knew like Jesus has forgiven me.
SPEAKER_00: And like the ministry of the church has affirmed that and I was free.
SPEAKER_01: And that's where your life begins to change.
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely, because you see it firsthand and you see the effects of his mercy in your life.
SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
SPEAKER_01: And and that's what I was talking about earlier, because those same words that that Jesus says to the apostles, peace be with you, those same words are being offered to us.
SPEAKER_01: The same words that were were spoken over the apostles, those disciples, it's the same words that are spoken over us.
SPEAKER_01: And when you let him in, not halfway, not on your terms, because we always want to control the narrative, right?
SPEAKER_01: We've talked about that a million times.
SPEAKER_01: But when we really truly trust, Jesus, I trust in you, and you go to confession, you do a good confession, you're free.
SPEAKER_01: Freed from what you've been carrying, freed from what you've been holding back.
SPEAKER_01: But that freedom, and this is what I wanted to drive home.
SPEAKER_01: That freedom doesn't stay hidden.
SPEAKER_01: It's something that begins to show in everything that you do and how you live your life.
SPEAKER_01: And there's just this certain joy that of knowing Jesus, of knowing that you've been healed, that that knowing that you've been forgiven.
SPEAKER_01: You want to share that.
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, you want to share that with people.
SPEAKER_01: And that's with everything, everything good in your life, everything that that brings joy to your life.
SPEAKER_01: You want to share that with someone.
SPEAKER_01: The same thing is with the faith.
SPEAKER_01: And the way you speak, the way you respond, the way you treat your spouse, the way you're raising your children, the way that you carry yourself.
SPEAKER_01: People will notice that something is different.
SPEAKER_01: If you're authentically following Christ, if you've authentically love Jesus, if you're trusting in him.
SPEAKER_01: Now, I'm not saying you have a perfect life.
SPEAKER_01: That's not it at all.
SPEAKER_01: But something begins to be to look very real and very authentic, right?
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
unknown: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Think about it.
SPEAKER_01: People who people who are super patient, people who are generous, who are not quick to judge.
SPEAKER_01: Mercy makes sense.
SPEAKER_01: It's incarnate, it's something that you can see.
SPEAKER_01: It's concrete and it's a lived experience.
SPEAKER_01: What is that?
SPEAKER_01: That's discipleship.
SPEAKER_01: That's what we've been talking about.
SPEAKER_01: That's what we're trying to build here with community.
SPEAKER_01: How do we have like-minded people, people who are on fire for Christ, that could come together and say, we desire to make a better world, we desire to build up the kingdom of God.
SPEAKER_01: How do we do that?
SPEAKER_01: Well, we're trying to be a parish on mission, but we can't be on mission if we're not converted and convicted of his love to live differently.
SPEAKER_01: Because it makes no sense to believe in all of this what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_01: And then you go out in the world, you're like this miserable person.
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't want Christianity if it's gonna look like that.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
SPEAKER_00: Right in the scripture that comes to mind is um where it says this woman loved, uh was forgiven much, so she loves much.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I think that's kind of what you're talking about, Father.
SPEAKER_00: It's like if we let mercy goes go to these hidden places, what happens is the wellspring of love goes that deeper too.
SPEAKER_01: 100%.
SPEAKER_00: And I I think of that that gospel passage because it's like she was so free to love much because she knew, not that she was perfect, but because she knew the mercy that touched the depths of her woundedness.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what we're called to do, especially when we talk about divine mercy and going to confession and allowing Christ to heal, not just on the surface, but at these like hard, these hard areas, these places of darkness that are locked away.
SPEAKER_00: But if we do that, it's for the freedom to love that follows and to let him really work and more deeply in our life.
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's Divine mercy applied to a soul.
SPEAKER_01: That's it right there.
SPEAKER_01: You just that's exactly what that is.
SPEAKER_01: And let me say this: if you've never experienced this mercy, come to St.
SPEAKER_01: A's.
SPEAKER_01: We want to help you this.
SPEAKER_01: We want to walk with you.
SPEAKER_01: Come to confession.
SPEAKER_01: We have confessions every Saturday from 10 to 2 or 10 to 1.
SPEAKER_01: Come to St.
SPEAKER_01: A's.
SPEAKER_01: But if you if you've not experienced this, you're missing one of the greatest gifts Christ has given his church.
SPEAKER_01: Because this is where the locked doors open.
SPEAKER_01: This is where shame loses its power.
SPEAKER_01: This is where the past stops defining you.
SPEAKER_01: And what is very cool about it, that it's it's not in theory, this is real.
SPEAKER_01: And one of the questions that I know people ask you, well, did God really forgive me?
SPEAKER_01: Did I do the did I do it right?
SPEAKER_01: Am I still carrying this?
SPEAKER_01: And Jesus says, No, I'm not going to leave you guessing.
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to give you a moment, a place.
SPEAKER_01: And what is that?
SPEAKER_01: A sacrament.
SPEAKER_01: Just like we talked about a little bit earlier.
SPEAKER_01: Where you can bring your real sins and receive absolution.
SPEAKER_01: And again, something that needs to be clear is this is not therapy.
SPEAKER_01: People talk about counseling, self-help, and all these gurus write about these books about this is the real uh repair of the soul, and and and it's not just advice, it's not encouragement, it's about mercy that heals to the core of our brokenness, of our woundedness, of our what the effects of original sin, all of that.
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that if you don't understand or you've never experienced mercy in your life, come join a church, be part of a community, start investigating and knowing your faith and praying and coming to mass and celebrating the sacrament of confession.
SPEAKER_01: Now do it baby steps, one foot in front of the other.
SPEAKER_01: Don't go crazy.
SPEAKER_01: Don't uh try to keep it where it's manageable, where you're growing and learning, and you'll get there.
SPEAKER_01: Ask the right questions.
SPEAKER_01: Ask your priest, ask a friend, someone who is further along in the faith, but ask, don't get stuck.
SPEAKER_01: Ask.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Father.
SPEAKER_00: And I think what you're saying too is um like counseling and therapy, all those things can help us understand our story to be able to bring it to the confessional.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: To be able to bring our wounds to the healer.
SPEAKER_01: Um, because he knows us.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because he knows us.
SPEAKER_00: And it's and really some of I think those other um, you know, therapy and counseling can also help us know ourselves and know our story to be able to invite Jesus specifically in the areas that we before were hidden or just blind to.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: And the thing is that he knows we don't just need to feel forgiven.
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we need experience forgiveness.
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
SPEAKER_00: And I think you're that's why you're hitting on that's so powerful.
SPEAKER_00: And really the invitation to our listeners too is um, yes, we want to know these things, but they they're Jesus wants to us to experience them.
SPEAKER_01: And there has to be something outside of ourselves that says, it's done.
SPEAKER_01: It's gone.
SPEAKER_01: You could be at ease.
SPEAKER_01: You are forgiven, you are loved, you are known by me.
SPEAKER_01: I don't, I desire that you not be stuck in this.
SPEAKER_01: Let allow me to enter into that messiness, allow me to enter into that big mistake, into that horrible sin, into that habit that you keep following.
SPEAKER_01: Allow, I want to walk into that, right?
SPEAKER_01: He walks through those locked doors for a reason.
SPEAKER_01: He's like, I want to be here in the the grossest part of it.
SPEAKER_01: I want to be there for you.
SPEAKER_01: And he doesn't just leave forgiveness as something that's private, it's it's an ecclesiastical it's it's the root of who we are as a church.
SPEAKER_01: Think about it, it's from the very beginning.
SPEAKER_01: The church understood this.
SPEAKER_01: It's not some later invention.
SPEAKER_01: This is from uh the very beginning of the Christian church.
SPEAKER_01: It's apostolic, it's being passed on from the very first disciples all the way on to us.
SPEAKER_00: And I think the um Jesus coming in and like going beyond the locked doors and saying peace is exactly what the church is trying to offer the world, you know, is through reconciliation is is where you receive peace.
SPEAKER_00: Like that peace of heart and mind of knowing and trusting in God's love and mercy over your own weakness, over your own sinfulness.
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I love how that's all connected here is is peace.
SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a fruit of authentic conversion, is is peace, which everyone everyone wants.
SPEAKER_01: And I maybe we can just end on this, but um Sister Faustina did so much to advance divine mercy, understanding mercy, and like on such an exaggerated, in a good way, like way to say, um, but if you only understood, you don't understand mercy.
SPEAKER_01: Mercy is like a drop in the ocean of mercy.
SPEAKER_01: Like God's mercy and and uh love for us is so expansive that we don't even understand how great God's mercy is for us.
SPEAKER_01: And then for her to say, the greatest sinner, the greatest of all the sinners, the one who's done the worst of the worst, is the first in line to receive God's mercy.
SPEAKER_01: Think of that, right?
SPEAKER_01: That that's how who can how do you fathom that?
SPEAKER_01: But what I don't want, and and I said this in the homilies, I don't want people to say to dismiss sin.
SPEAKER_01: Oh, go do whatever you want and and live however you want.
SPEAKER_01: No, again, it's Christ saying, and it's mercy, who is the font of mercy, Christ saying, I love you so much that I don't want to ever see you there in that mess or in that sin or in that habit or whatever it is.
SPEAKER_01: I want to free you from that.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I also think, Father, that and and the truth also is like we can only own our own sin.
SPEAKER_00: And so in some regard, we are the worst of sinners because the choices we can only, you know, account for our own yes and noes to to Christ and our own sin.
SPEAKER_00: So I even think about like that passage from um Saint St.
SPEAKER_00: Faustina being kind of twofold, one of yes, the greatest of sinners, but then also like, but this is also how God looks at like our our worst, our locked doors, our woundedness that you know is pussing, like um, that he looks at that with such compassion and mercy um for ourselves.
SPEAKER_01: And he looks at us with love.
SPEAKER_01: We look at ourselves with such sometimes with loath and uh uh disregard, uh indifference.
SPEAKER_01: We treat, we sometimes tend to treat ourselves very harshly.
SPEAKER_01: And I wish people wouldn't speak that out into the world.
SPEAKER_01: And we've talked about this, and where is my place in how God sees me and and how I am in in image and likeness of God and I am his beloved, and we we've talked a lot about that, we've taught about that.
SPEAKER_01: But in the same in regard to confession, right, it's how do I in that very moment understand that God chooses to enter into that messiness, that that that sinfulness, and not and desires not to keep me there.
SPEAKER_01: He wants to help me out.
SPEAKER_01: There it he's almost extending the hand and saying, Come on, I'm gonna help you.
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna help you out.
SPEAKER_01: There's a better way, there's a better life.
SPEAKER_01: You don't need to keep falling into that.
SPEAKER_01: If you trust me, I can free you and you're gonna live life to the fullest.
SPEAKER_01: How do we communicate that, right?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: So, Father, as we kind of wrap up our conversation today, what would be um your encouragement to really allow people to receive God's mercy in those deeper ways?
SPEAKER_00: Or I don't know, maybe they're listening to um to our podcast and Divine Mercy, that line of Jesus, I trust in you is at the heart of it.
SPEAKER_00: How can people live that daily?
SPEAKER_00: How can people access that daily?
SPEAKER_01: That's a beautiful close-up here suggestion.
SPEAKER_01: Um I would say, first off, more than anything, is baby steps.
SPEAKER_01: Love yourself, take care of yourself.
SPEAKER_01: Some people are carrying some very deep sins, some deep wounds, and it needs to be taken care of uh carefully.
SPEAKER_01: But know the faith in the sense that do some homework, maybe read some of Faustina's work or do your own work.
SPEAKER_01: It's something that you enjoy reading.
SPEAKER_01: What is divine mercy?
SPEAKER_01: What is God's mercy for me?
SPEAKER_01: But also look up a really good examination of conscience online, they're everywhere.
SPEAKER_01: Look up a good one and just go through it slowly.
SPEAKER_01: Take out a piece of paper, pad maybe.
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I've done that.
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, I'm guilty of that.
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow, I didn't realize that that is something that I fall into.
SPEAKER_01: And start to write all that down and then come and do a really good confession.
SPEAKER_01: And if this is something that you already do, well, then go deeper.
SPEAKER_01: Go deeper.
SPEAKER_01: And it's in those daily mistakes, those maybe they're not mortal sins, but how are you chiseling away at this beautiful structure and saying, oh, I gotta tweak this, I gotta tweak that.
SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's what I would say.
SPEAKER_01: I would say is really take confession strong, uh serious, and build it into your life so that it's every day and it keeps you grounded, it keeps you connected, it keeps you, you you you end up saying, Well, I don't want to, I don't want to be out of the state of grace.
SPEAKER_01: I want to continue to be in God's love and God's mercy.
SPEAKER_01: I want to separate myself from God.
SPEAKER_01: And so it almost automatically conditions you, like an athlete, to be better, to to to strive to to holiness and to walk in discipleship, because then that way you're inspiring others.
SPEAKER_01: So I would just say baby steps, do some homework, read about the church, maybe do something with hallow on uh the Bible in the year, something that really nourishes your faith, keeps you connected, because you got to stay connected, you got to nourish the faith, you gotta continue doing things that really allow you to stay connected and then do a good examination of conscience, come to confession.
SPEAKER_01: And if you're already doing that, go deeper.
SPEAKER_01: And in all of that, trust.
SPEAKER_01: Trust that you're not alone and that you have a God that loves you so much, who's not gonna keep you in that sin, but wants you to live free.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: And gosh, receiving that mercy make like builds the trust.
SPEAKER_00: And I feel uh Jesus, I trust in you.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus, I trust in you.
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for this conversation, Father.
SPEAKER_00: And um, so good.
SPEAKER_00: So we just encourage our listeners if you uh appreciated this, if there's someone that might benefit, please share, um, like it, and and pass it on.
SPEAKER_00: We want to continue to share God's mercy with the world.
SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Michelle.
SPEAKER_01: It's been great, and uh, we'll see you next week.
SPEAKER_01: God bless.