SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to Heart of the Homily Podcast.
SPEAKER_03: My name is Michelle Lopez, and I'm here with Father Rigobar, our pastor and host.
SPEAKER_03: How are you, Father?
SPEAKER_00: Happy Monday, Michelle.
SPEAKER_00: How's it going?
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
SPEAKER_03: Doing well.
SPEAKER_03: Happy Monday and happy Easter still.
SPEAKER_03: Hallelujah.
SPEAKER_00: Hallelujah.
SPEAKER_03: Soaking in for all it's worth.
SPEAKER_00: It's good to be with you.
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
SPEAKER_03: You too.
SPEAKER_00: And what a great Sunday.
SPEAKER_00: A lot of people.
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_03: It was packed to the max.
SPEAKER_03: And it's getting hot outside too.
SPEAKER_03: So it's like you really feel like it's only a little bit.
SPEAKER_00: Well, not too many people want to sit under the tent.
SPEAKER_00: But it was great to see the sisters of life.
SPEAKER_00: What oh wow.
SPEAKER_00: Like I told them at Mass, what a fresher breath there they are.
SPEAKER_00: And what a great 150 women for the retreat.
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
SPEAKER_03: It was so awesome.
SPEAKER_00: That's people living their faith.
SPEAKER_00: It's what we're talking about every week after week.
SPEAKER_00: It's people saying, Yes, let me be more committed.
SPEAKER_00: Let me get nourished.
SPEAKER_00: Let me get what I need, right?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So good job, Michelle.
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
SPEAKER_03: Praise God.
SPEAKER_03: I received so much from it too.
SPEAKER_03: It was very inspiring and enriching.
SPEAKER_03: And it's amazing to see people there that first retreat, like a lot of people with their first retreat coming.
SPEAKER_03: And then also, like, you know, people who've gone on multiple and still everyone receives something beautiful.
SPEAKER_03: Like God has never outdone.
SPEAKER_03: It's awesome.
SPEAKER_03: If you make space, he will blow you away.
SPEAKER_00: Church is alive.
SPEAKER_03: So good.
SPEAKER_03: So today we're looking at the gospel from yesterday, which is from John 10, verses 1 to 10.
SPEAKER_03: Jesus talking about being the gate and also being the gate for the sheep.
SPEAKER_03: And I think this one, Father, it's actually one of those scriptures where at first glance it's a little bit like, what is he talking about?
SPEAKER_03: Right.
SPEAKER_03: Gate and thief and robbers.
SPEAKER_03: And um, so I'm really excited to unpack this because I think what you pulled into the homily um helped me see it in a in a different light.
SPEAKER_03: And also I think was very impactful.
SPEAKER_00: It's a great um, a great gospel where you could take it a lot of different directions.
SPEAKER_00: Something I was going to do, and I was I was debating whether to start with it or not, was a just a kind of a reference of in the ancient world, like in the time of Jesus, a shepherd would literally, it would be like a stone uh cave or maybe like a stone wall, but he would literally lie in front of the sheep.
SPEAKER_00: So if a wolf is coming, he would go first towards the shepherd.
SPEAKER_00: Or if a sheep was wanting to stray, he had to crawl climb over the shepherd to get out.
SPEAKER_00: And so it was basically people would have understood this as, oh, the shepherd is the gate.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because the shepherd is always the one that lies there as the gate.
SPEAKER_00: And so people would have understood what Jesus is saying.
SPEAKER_00: And I think what's so powerful because later when we we put theology to it is that he's not a gate or one gate among many gate.
SPEAKER_00: No, he says, I am the gate, right?
SPEAKER_00: The gate to heaven, the gate to salvation.
SPEAKER_00: And so that's what we were talking about today, uh, yesterday.
SPEAKER_00: And um, but I could have gone many different directions, uh, but I like where it went.
SPEAKER_00: Uh, a lot of people were really resonating with the message and how they're being led by different things.
SPEAKER_00: And we just wanted to break it open for them.
SPEAKER_03: The Holy Spirit was definitely at work.
SPEAKER_03: And would love to start off because in the beginning you talked about how not every voice in your life wants good for you.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's the whole thing.
SPEAKER_00: I wanted like and maybe it sounds horrible, but it was like I was gonna use a story or sort of something to shock you, like wake you up.
SPEAKER_00: Are you listening?
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not every voice wants what's good for you.
SPEAKER_00: Voices out there are going to lie to you.
SPEAKER_00: But just, I mean, Michelle, think about it.
SPEAKER_00: You ever notice how many people follow different people?
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: Like that that's the thing today.
SPEAKER_00: That's our modern reality, what we live in.
SPEAKER_00: We follow people we've never met.
SPEAKER_00: We listen to voices all day long.
SPEAKER_00: There's people that that follow people for fitness, for nutrition, mindset, um, business, like how to better your relationships.
SPEAKER_00: Everyone has something to say.
SPEAKER_00: And and I think I mentioned it, I don't know if I mentioned it at the ADM, but there's people are experts on everything now.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, people know everything about everything, right?
SPEAKER_00: But um, so everyone has something to say.
SPEAKER_00: And honestly, a lot of it is good.
SPEAKER_00: I want to say it is good.
SPEAKER_00: It's based on goodness and wanting people to get to a higher place, a better place.
SPEAKER_00: So, what we do as human beings, we we build a mix, right?
SPEAKER_00: I've got this person for discipline, I got this one for health, I got this one for motivation, this one helps for helps me with mental clarity.
SPEAKER_00: And somewhere in all of that, yeah, well, Jesus too.
SPEAKER_00: I go to mass, I go to mass on Sundays.
SPEAKER_00: He's in the mix.
SPEAKER_00: But what ends up happening is that whatever voice is most attractive to you in the moment, that's the one that feels urgent, that's the one that feels relevant and just easier to follow.
SPEAKER_00: That's the one that takes the lead.
SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I was trying to stress.
SPEAKER_00: What's that voice that you're listening to that you're allowing yourself to be led?
SPEAKER_00: Because if if I'm I'm stressed, I go to a mental health voice.
SPEAKER_00: If I want to improve or I feel good, I want to just better my life, I go to a productivity voice or something.
SPEAKER_00: Or if I'm trying to feel better about myself, I go to an affirmation voice.
SPEAKER_00: And Jesus, oh well, I'll come back to you.
SPEAKER_00: I'll celebrate Mass on Sunday.
SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: It's it's important that we understand what are we listening to.
SPEAKER_00: And there's nothing wrong.
SPEAKER_00: A lot of these voices are good.
SPEAKER_00: We got to make a distinction.
SPEAKER_00: There's only one voice that ultimately you should be following, right?
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03: And what you're saying too is even all these other voices that are good, like to be like under the one voice that has command over all of our life.
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's, you know, that's I think the challenge is that all these other things are are good, but is Jesus the priority?
SPEAKER_03: Is he the one voice that will have attention over all these other ones?
SPEAKER_03: Because all these other ones are good, but they could always go astray, you know.
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
SPEAKER_00: Because the question is not, are those other voices bad?
SPEAKER_00: No, they're good.
SPEAKER_00: But the question is who is actually in charge?
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: Because if Jesus is not the one interpreting everything else in your life, then everything else will start to interpret Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: So it's not about cutting everything out.
SPEAKER_00: I think it's good.
SPEAKER_00: I think we've follow a good plan.
SPEAKER_00: We gotta eat better, we gotta exercise, we gotta get out there.
SPEAKER_00: And some people can motivate you to do that.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's really great.
SPEAKER_00: It's about order, but Christ has to be first.
SPEAKER_00: His voice filters everything else, not the other way around.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, you're going to follow something.
SPEAKER_00: The only question, and that's what I was trying to do in this homily today uh yesterday, is is it forming you into who you're meant to be or just pulling you in 10 different directions?
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people, when they're going in 10 different directions, they feel scattered.
SPEAKER_00: Even though they're they're following these different plans, they're listening to this one, listen to that, but they feel all over the place.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that's a great question.
SPEAKER_03: Like, where do where in my life do I feel drained instead of led towards life?
SPEAKER_03: Because I think Jesus is always going to, his voice is going to lead us towards abundant life.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: Like, what are the voices in my life that are actually leading me away from Christ or let away from life, or actually feeling like drained and taking away my peace?
SPEAKER_00: Exactly right.
SPEAKER_00: Something that I mean, as you're saying that, it reminds me if if we go back to Genesis, if the snake didn't hiss, the sir, the snake doesn't threaten.
SPEAKER_00: What does he do?
SPEAKER_00: The sent the the serpent reasons, right?
SPEAKER_00: Did God really say that you shouldn't eat that fruit?
SPEAKER_00: He sounds like careful.
SPEAKER_00: He sounds this is what always gets me is he sounds concerned for you, right?
SPEAKER_00: Like he's looking out for Eve, like like maybe he's been misinformed and just gently correcting the record.
SPEAKER_00: Uh tell me that again.
SPEAKER_00: Like what you what which fruit tree are you not allowed to eat from?
SPEAKER_00: Because the first voice of destruction in the Bible is the voice of reasonable inquiry.
SPEAKER_00: Think about that, right?
SPEAKER_00: That's terrifying when you think about it because it means that the lie has to resemble the truth.
SPEAKER_00: And um, I you know, I always try to bring in Aquinas, I mean Augustine, Aquinas, too, but Augustine um says that a lie that announces itself would persuade no one.
SPEAKER_00: The lie has to wear the truth's clothes, otherwise it doesn't work.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's how powerful that is.
SPEAKER_03: Because if you know it's a lie, you're going, I don't know, you have to persuade me to do anything.
SPEAKER_03: But the half-truth the half-truths.
SPEAKER_03: Those are, I think, that is that's where the battle is, Father.
SPEAKER_03: Like for for most of us, is is in half truths and kind of getting caught up and not seeing or stepping back to be like, is this true or is this just half true?
SPEAKER_03: And if it's half true, it's a lie.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, but which it makes sense, but it's very hard to catch those sometimes in in in life.
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
SPEAKER_00: So it how does that happen, right?
SPEAKER_00: Um, how does a voice that didn't belong to you all of a sudden sound like you?
unknown: Right?
SPEAKER_00: Because I think that that's what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: Slowly, quietly.
SPEAKER_00: Again, Saint Augustine has that best diagnosis of this.
SPEAKER_00: Uh he he says he talks about a chain, a four-linked chain.
SPEAKER_00: He says that from the perverse will, desire is born.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: And while desire is served, it becomes a habit.
SPEAKER_00: And while habit is not resisted, it becomes necessity.
SPEAKER_00: So it's uh will, desire, habit, necessity.
SPEAKER_00: But but if you really study that or if you meditate on that, notice that no single step is catastrophic.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: Each one is just a small concession, just this once, or it's not a big deal.
SPEAKER_00: I'll pull back tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00: But then Augustine teaches us that then that chain begins to form link by link.
SPEAKER_00: You don't notice you're chained until you can't move.
SPEAKER_00: And and that's one of the things that I talked about the homily.
SPEAKER_00: It was that this doesn't just happen by this catastrophic decision.
SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, I'm not gonna listen to Jesus, I'm not gonna go that route.
SPEAKER_00: It happens slowly.
SPEAKER_00: And and you just begin to just fade away, or you start to say, no, this voice is more important, or this voice makes more sense.
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's dangerous.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: You know, Father, an example that comes to mind that I've talked with many people about is um sometimes, like, for example, the church requires us to go to Sunday Mass.
SPEAKER_02: Right.
SPEAKER_03: And that's for our good, you know.
SPEAKER_03: But when you miss one, and then you start getting in like the, oh, well then, but this and I don't feel like it.
SPEAKER_03: So I think Sunday Mass is like a tangible, easy thing to probably relate to, where we've all been tempted to just be like, oh, but does it really work?
SPEAKER_03: Do I have to go?
SPEAKER_03: Should I go?
SPEAKER_03: Or it's like, no, it's not like yes, you know, and like being able to push through the half-truths of like, oh, well, God doesn't really, you know, it's it does he really care if you go to Mass?
SPEAKER_03: You know, like I don't know there's so many things around that that I think um people struggle with because they're half-truths.
SPEAKER_03: Um, but being able to name the the lies and bring them into the light and then make a choice for Christ.
SPEAKER_00: And right, because I think a lot of people think that we're neutral people, right?
SPEAKER_00: That we have this illusion that we're just figuring things out, it I'll get there, I'll go to mass, I'll it's just not convenient to me right now, but maybe it maybe I'll get more involved later.
SPEAKER_00: Because we like to be independent, we're independent people.
SPEAKER_00: We want to be in control of all of our decisions, all of our makings, of uh our own agency.
SPEAKER_00: But the question is not, am I being led?
SPEAKER_00: The question is, what is leading me?
SPEAKER_00: And that's the undertone of all of this.
SPEAKER_00: What is leading me?
SPEAKER_00: Because one of the things that I mentioned is, and this is true, a lot of people are being led right now by fear.
SPEAKER_00: Everything that they do, every decision, every action is led by fear.
SPEAKER_00: Why?
SPEAKER_00: Because fear is subtle, it doesn't usually come in screaming, uh, it shows up as caution, hesitation.
SPEAKER_00: Let me play this safe.
SPEAKER_00: And then over time, it begins to shrink your will.
SPEAKER_00: You just stop taking risk, you stop stepping out, you stop trusting.
SPEAKER_00: And then before you know it, your decisions are no longer rooted in freedom.
SPEAKER_00: They're they're rooted in avoidance.
SPEAKER_00: Why?
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm I'm I'm afraid, I can't take that step.
SPEAKER_00: And so that's how you're being led through your whole life.
SPEAKER_00: And you know people like this, you've seen people in spiritual direction where it's they're frozen, it's almost paralyzing.
SPEAKER_00: And then I mentioned too that uh some people are being led by their past, past mistakes, um the the just some of the activities that they have encountered or they have entered into that were not of God.
SPEAKER_00: And so, oh well, I'm just not a good person.
SPEAKER_00: I I I yeah, I've been to confession, but I don't my mistakes, my past, that's what leads them.
SPEAKER_00: And this is a huge one because huge, because people don't realize how much their past is still writing their present.
SPEAKER_00: And something that happened years ago, like I said, like a failure or a wound, or even a betrayal.
SPEAKER_00: Betrayals are big.
SPEAKER_00: Every decision then is filtered through that experience.
SPEAKER_00: You're not responding to reality no more, you're reacting to a memory.
SPEAKER_00: So I've seen this with uh even young men who are wanting to make a commitment to uh get engaged, or even someone who is trying to take a risk at going to another job, or somebody that is, no, but my past is not allowing me to make some very concrete decisions here in the present.
SPEAKER_00: And then another one that I think is huge is a lot of people are being led by success, by wanting more things, material things, wanting acclamations and uh just the worldly attraction, uh those things, keeping up with the Joneses, wanting more and more and more.
SPEAKER_00: And so that's what that's what drives someone.
SPEAKER_00: And so they're listening to those those voices, right?
SPEAKER_00: That's and it's dangerous because it looks good, right?
SPEAKER_00: Who doesn't want to be successful?
SPEAKER_00: Who doesn't want to have beautiful things?
SPEAKER_00: Who doesn't want to go on nice vacations?
SPEAKER_00: Who doesn't want to have that gorgeous yacht or that beautiful boat?
SPEAKER_00: And but it's disordered if it it leads you down a path of destruction, because that's the only thing you're you're thinking about.
SPEAKER_00: That that's the obsession, right?
SPEAKER_00: Everything external checks out you're achieving, producing, moving forward.
SPEAKER_00: But internally, there's this kind of exhaustion because it's draining you, because sometimes you're you you see yourself, you're like, I'm not there.
SPEAKER_00: Oh look, why does that person have this and they wow?
SPEAKER_00: Look at the success that they've had, and I haven't been able to get there.
SPEAKER_00: And so it's draining because that's what's completely leading you into the into your life, right?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what it what's coming to mind, father, as you're talking about, is like it's a great moment to ask all of our listeners and ourselves, like, what are we thinking about during the day?
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_03: What are what are do we even know what the voices are?
SPEAKER_00: What's the motivation?
SPEAKER_03: Paying attention to even like what our thoughts are during the day, to be able to know and name, to start naming some of those voices and those half truths.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think it's why Jesus says he's the way, the truth, and the life is like when we start putting his voice first, it clarifies everything and it puts things in the right order, and it's the truth that actually brings life.
SPEAKER_03: Um, not the half truths, but like the full truth that gives freedom and and peace and joy to to give our life to him.
SPEAKER_03: So, Father, with um gosh, and what we're talking about, what would be because I feel like this is definitely like if we're following some of these voices unintentionally, what are steps to wake up a little bit to like what are the voices?
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree on that.
SPEAKER_00: You know, our Archbishop Fulton Sheen, who you know I love, um he talked a lot about this.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that what made Archbishop Shane so effective in the 50s and 60s wasn't that he was he wasn't just a great communicator because he was.
SPEAKER_00: It was that he was able to take everything that we're talking about right now, like the secular, um those secular voices, and he was able to show the world or show his audience there's a religious context here.
SPEAKER_00: You have a uh you have a family, you have a history that can teach you this religious phenomena that can really direct you to a higher, better life, a higher calling.
SPEAKER_00: When one of the things the only the only academic study that he did was on communism, it's which is kind of fascinating because he wrote so much, right?
SPEAKER_00: But he he didn't say communism was a bad for economy, he said it was a heretical eschatology, right?
SPEAKER_00: He turns that secular into the religious, and then also like when the 60s when all the the sex revolutionary, he he didn't say hedonism was just appetite running wild, you got to keep it in check.
SPEAKER_00: No, he said this is a sacramental system in reverse.
SPEAKER_00: He he was always taking the secular and bringing it back so that people can see there is a God, he loves you, and he wants you in a better place.
SPEAKER_00: And the sound it they sound familiar because they they borrowed the grammar of your soul.
SPEAKER_00: They've taken the language of longing for meaning, for love, for transcendence and for purpose.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: That's what the sound, that's what all these voices are doing.
SPEAKER_00: This is what some of these Instagram influencers and all these, they they take this sound that sounds familiar to your mind, and and they borrowed the grammar of your soul that because your soul wants to hear that.
SPEAKER_00: The soul wants a better life.
SPEAKER_00: Uh the soul is longing and searching and and asking for meaning and purpose and for peace.
SPEAKER_00: That's why sometimes it's hard to tell.
SPEAKER_00: It's hard to tell when someone is not serving you for good.
SPEAKER_00: Looks good, sounds good, may feel good, but at the end, it's pulling you away from Jesus.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's very um insightful, Father.
SPEAKER_03: And would love for for you to kind of go into in your Hamlet, you mentioned about that the shepherd calls us by name.
SPEAKER_01: Right.
SPEAKER_03: And what does that mean for kind of someone personally and and also like inviting us to be led and to sort of hear the voice of the shepherd and then to be led in that direction?
SPEAKER_03: Because I think what you're talking about too is being able to even hear in the secular noise and voices, Jesus within that to like to guide us through it.
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think people think they're just living their life, but in reality, we're always oriented towards a perceived good.
SPEAKER_00: We're always being formed by repeated choices.
SPEAKER_00: So I think that for us to be able to really truly understand, God loves you and he knows you by your name.
SPEAKER_00: He knows all of the voices that you're giving into, he knows the destruction, he knows the chaos that you're living in.
SPEAKER_00: He knows all of that, and he still wants to walk with you to recover you and to say, hey Michelle, don't forget, I'm here, I'm the good shepherd, I am the gate, right?
SPEAKER_00: Because each voice is actually offering a vision of the good life, like we were just talking about, a definition of happiness and a path to fulfillment.
SPEAKER_00: That's all those a lot of these voices, because if if those voices didn't offer that, we wouldn't follow them, right?
SPEAKER_03: Well, even going back to Genesis, right?
SPEAKER_03: The serpent was like, the tree looks good, you know, like that apple looks shiny and delicious.
SPEAKER_00: But um, so fear is again, if you're if you're allowing yourself to be led by fear, let's just take that again because it this is important that you make an important point of of going back to the shepherd knows my name.
SPEAKER_00: But if you're allowing, let's say, the voice of fear, well, that means to me it's it's safety.
SPEAKER_00: I feel safe being fearful because I see fear as an ultimate good.
SPEAKER_00: Or if it's success uh or um wanting things, it's it's it's an achievement as an ultimate good.
SPEAKER_00: I see it as then I'll be happy, or even pleasure and sin, comfort as an ultimate good.
SPEAKER_00: But we gotta realize that when Christ calls my name, it's communion with God as an all the ultimate good.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: I think um, like Aquinas would say, every action is ordered towards an ultimate end.
SPEAKER_00: And that's what I want people to take with them.
SPEAKER_00: It's this just by calling you by name, he's already opening that to you.
SPEAKER_00: He's he's showing you that there is the goodness, the fulfillment, the the the ultimate of what you could receive is available to you, Michelle, by name.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: It's not some abstract out in the space where, oh yeah, in general, I'm talking in in general, no.
SPEAKER_00: Good shepherd is so good that he knows his sheep and they know him.
SPEAKER_00: They he knows them by name.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's why Jesus gave this story because he was actually talking about a reality when in those times, and I don't even know today because I don't I don't know any shepherds, but um they say that the sheep know the shepherd's voice, and so Jesus must have known that.
SPEAKER_00: And he said, Let me give you this parable, let me show you, let me tell you how much I love you.
SPEAKER_03: It's so um, gosh, it's so interesting and so powerful.
SPEAKER_03: Even that example of the truth of the shepherd and sheep, like that for their survival, they need to know their shepherd's voice.
SPEAKER_00: Right.
SPEAKER_03: But also then it's but it's also so personal.
SPEAKER_03: So personal.
SPEAKER_03: They're so loved by the shepherd that that's the exchange of relationship.
SPEAKER_03: And I think what you're saying, Father, too, is that Jesus being the good shepherd can't be something like far out of like, yeah, he loves everybody, everyone's a sheep, like everyone's it's but it's personal.
SPEAKER_03: It goes into like knowing you by name.
SPEAKER_03: And honestly, that changes everything.
SPEAKER_03: I know for my own journey and for many people I've walked with, like, and I know for myself, like I have asked for that grace.
SPEAKER_03: Like, Lord, I want to, I need to hear you call me, call me by name.
SPEAKER_03: And and that I know for myself, like awakened my heart into a personal relationship with Jesus when I really heard him call me by my name, knowing I was known personally, uniquely, and that it was real and it was for me.
SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't like I wasn't the only person in the world that it just wasn't for, you know.
SPEAKER_00: And that's the encounter I want everyone to understand.
SPEAKER_00: You just said it so easy, because we try to complicate everything about religion and about spirituality, about our relationship with the Lord.
SPEAKER_00: You just said it where it's so approachable to everyone, and that's the goal of living in a community, of growing in faith, having formation till you get to a place where you said, I heard the shepherd call me.
SPEAKER_00: Not in some general way, but I heard his voice and I I feel his love for me and I feel his presence for me.
SPEAKER_00: So, how do we do this?
SPEAKER_00: That's I think that's the next thing that I mentioned to the homie.
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do we this sounds all beautiful, but if we don't bring it down to grassroots, like how do we do this?
SPEAKER_00: And I I laid out three steps.
SPEAKER_00: One was claim him because that sounds nice, and we're honest, most people hear that, and even in the example that you just gave, well, how do I how do how does what does that look like, right?
SPEAKER_00: But what does that even mean?
SPEAKER_00: Claim him how?
SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say say your prayer, go to mass, but it has to be where you claim him as your shepherd, not on an emotional level, but on a decisive level, and that's where the shift comes, and this almost this I authority of you are my shepherd.
SPEAKER_00: There's no other voice.
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can listen to all this other stuff and it helps me, it's a supplement, but Christ is a priority.
SPEAKER_00: Because every single one of us is already living under some kind of authority.
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's your emotions, maybe it's your past, maybe it's your ambitions, but something is sitting in the driver's seat of your life.
SPEAKER_00: But to claim Christ means this.
SPEAKER_00: You consciously move him into that driver's seat, not in theory, but in practice.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's where people get stuck.
SPEAKER_00: They think that claiming Christ means they have to feel something first, right?
SPEAKER_00: What's your experience with that?
SPEAKER_00: Because we've taught this a lot.
SPEAKER_03: I think it's something deeper than emotions.
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes emotions come with it at different moments, but it's not it, the emotions don't speak to the truth of the matter.
SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, when we talk about faith, faith is in a sense of your intellect and will.
SPEAKER_03: So head and heart are are involved in this claiming of Christ.
SPEAKER_03: But that first movement is like, you know, willing it, like praying it and giving God permission.
SPEAKER_00: So you don't feel it, you choose it.
SPEAKER_03: You choose it.
SPEAKER_03: And then again, emotions sometimes will come and come and go, but they're not the goal.
SPEAKER_03: The goal is a kind of like if you're I'm choosing to follow you out this door.
SPEAKER_03: Like you're a person, so I'm I'm willing the decision to follow you out that door.
SPEAKER_03: And so you Majesus, it's like, you know, I'm giving you permission, Lord, to I'm gonna follow you.
SPEAKER_03: And then now Jesus has revealed himself through scripture, through tradition, he shows us how to do that.
SPEAKER_03: And then as we do that, all these other things come into order.
SPEAKER_03: And sometimes emotions will come at different moments to, you know, to match the truth, but the truth is beyond emotion.
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I and I think, Father, you're really highlighting something great, which is um every day we should we should actually pray and say, like, Jesus, I put you first, or I claim you Jesus as Lord of my life.
SPEAKER_03: Like well, that's it's a morning offering, you know?
SPEAKER_00: It's exactly.
SPEAKER_00: I would say a practical exercise, I would say just say, first start off with the question, who is leading me right now?
SPEAKER_00: Start off that way right there.
SPEAKER_00: Do like a almost like a little of an examination of conscience.
SPEAKER_00: What is leading me?
SPEAKER_00: And then, like you just said, do it out loud where it's a conviction.
SPEAKER_00: Jesus, I choose you as my good shepherd in this moment.
SPEAKER_00: That's it.
SPEAKER_00: Simple.
SPEAKER_00: And I and I think that if we do that, we begin to rewire our brain.
SPEAKER_00: We gotta learn how to rewire our brain.
SPEAKER_00: If we say it with conviction, and we say, you are the one that drives all of my convictions, all of my desires, all of my decisions, you, nothing else, not fear, not sin, not ambition, not comfort, you, Lord.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and if we do that, God's gonna give us opportunities throughout that whole day to choose Him again and again.
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's we should expect that.
SPEAKER_03: I think some people get discouraged by that, where they're like, oh, you know, what is this situation where it's like, no, this is exactly it.
SPEAKER_03: This is your moment to step into faith, to say, like, I'm not doing that because I chose Jesus this morning.
unknown: Right.
SPEAKER_00: And then the second part that I put there was be in the flock.
SPEAKER_00: A sheep that's out there alone is gonna die.
SPEAKER_00: And this is so important because we have to be a parish on mission.
SPEAKER_00: And I think that this is where a lot of people get tripped up because we live in a very individualistic culture.
SPEAKER_00: We're Americans, right?
SPEAKER_00: Everything is personalized, everything is self-directed.
SPEAKER_00: So even my spirituality can look like that.
SPEAKER_00: My relationship with Jesus, it's Jesus and me, my prayer time, my journey.
SPEAKER_00: But that's incomplete.
SPEAKER_00: I think that in the gospel, Jesus never calls us to be isolated, He forms a flock.
SPEAKER_00: And um, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00: I I think that you and I were not designed to sustain faith on our own, not emotionally, not spiritually, not even psychologically.
SPEAKER_00: Michelle, you are the pro at this of teaching people how to take seriously the need for community.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, community is, I mean, we're saved, we're saved as a family.
SPEAKER_00: People don't get this.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I it's um it's risky, father.
SPEAKER_03: It's risky.
SPEAKER_00: You know what they think?
SPEAKER_00: They think they say, oh, do I have to sit around a uh a table and share my feelings?
SPEAKER_00: Like, do I have to go into a small group?
SPEAKER_03: Well, if that's the the comment, it might be good for you.
SPEAKER_03: But you know, I think when we think about being saved as a community, um, we're we're called to remain and lead each other.
SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, in community, we're we're we're pruned, we're yeah, we're um, we see how to love each other.
SPEAKER_03: But then also over and over again, other people manifest God's truth to us.
SPEAKER_03: And as we're talking about like voices, right?
SPEAKER_03: Like community is so important because you need the voices of community to help you refine what the truth actually is.
SPEAKER_00: And like a mentor to you.
SPEAKER_03: And to be a mentor and to help cast out the half-truths.
SPEAKER_03: And right, you know, I I mean, I look at my own journey and like community has saved me in a sense of like if if I had to do it alone, I wouldn't have made it, you know, like but I needed people to love me as God loved me and to show me in concrete ways the way of friendship when I couldn't believe in that myself, but they showed me, you know, they showed me God's love.
SPEAKER_00: And I think a sheep on its own is not just vulnerable, it becomes disoriented.
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00: It loses its sense of direction, it becomes easier to deceive, easier to be attacked, easier to pull away.
SPEAKER_00: And so I think that when we're part of a community like ours, it's about formation.
SPEAKER_00: You really truly start to, if you get involved and you start to walk with other people, like you're saying, you begin to think differently, you begin to speak differently.
SPEAKER_00: I can always tell someone who is involved in their church, in their ministries, in prayer life, in spirituality.
SPEAKER_00: Why?
SPEAKER_00: Because the language is different.
SPEAKER_00: We have brought so many speakers here, we bring a lot of speakers through Legatis, and I can tell right away those who are practicing the faith and those who are just faking it.
SPEAKER_00: I can tell.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: There is a language.
SPEAKER_00: And so when you're part of this community, you begin to speak differently, you begin to desire things differently because you're surrounded by people who are trying to live in that same direction.
unknown: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: And that's huge because that's when your life really truly begins to change.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would also like to say that I think it's part of the joy of the Christian life is that it is shared.
SPEAKER_03: Right.
SPEAKER_03: Just like that's what I mean, Jesus did it himself.
SPEAKER_03: And if Jesus, you know, lived with the apostles and like, then it shows us there's some joy and need to live our life in a way that is takes takes community as like an important piece of it and not just like if I choose to do it.
SPEAKER_03: Right.
SPEAKER_03: But something of like, if I really want to grow, then to immerse myself in community is is is really essential because it just like a family teaches us things, it forms us in the school of love.
SPEAKER_03: And no other if we're on our own, we always think we're doing pretty good.
SPEAKER_03: You know, like yeah, and I I know for me I've I've had moments where even you know, being involved in community were it was kind of painful in some way, only because it showed me how far I was from really living the Christian life.
SPEAKER_03: It called me on in places that only by other people's witness and friendship would I actually know, like nobody meant to really follow Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
SPEAKER_00: That's that there's truth there.
SPEAKER_00: But one of the things I would say in this second part about being in the flock is maybe again doing that in examination and saying, Am I actually known by my community?
SPEAKER_00: Where am I actually growing?
SPEAKER_00: Is my faith life growing because of my church community?
SPEAKER_00: Do I put in the effort to go to that Bible study?
SPEAKER_00: Do I put in the effort to go and serve in one of the service projects?
SPEAKER_00: Do I make it an effort to be involved and to ask, hey, how can I help?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_00: So it's very important to be part of that flock.
SPEAKER_00: And then the third one that I just and we'll we'll finish with this, but I want to I wanted to say that every person, I don't care, grandma to a high school student, every single person is a shepherd in some way.
SPEAKER_00: That high school student could be a shepherd to their little brother, right?
SPEAKER_00: But God is not just forming you so you can feel better.
SPEAKER_00: He's forming you because he wants you to work through you.
SPEAKER_00: He wants to work through you.
SPEAKER_00: He's asking you to be part of his team, to be part of that mission to evangelize and to bring souls to Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: So, but in order to do that, you need to learn how to be led by the shepherd.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: Because as soon as you hear that voice, the reaction sometimes is, I'm not ready for that.
SPEAKER_00: I don't know enough, I'm not holy enough, I still have my own issues.
SPEAKER_00: That may be true, but we have to be able to say, okay, Lord, I want to follow you.
SPEAKER_00: And then when we start following and we allow ourselves to be followed, then you start seeing that you have a lot to offer and that you have those tools because you've allowed yourself to be led, that you can now lead others, influence others, mentor others, be a voice of reason, be a voice of compassion, be a voice of love to someone.
SPEAKER_00: Right?
SPEAKER_00: Because that's the goal, not to be impressive, not to, but to be transparent, transparent, so that through your life, others can finally hear the voice of God, of God, who is the good shepherd.
SPEAKER_03: So good.
SPEAKER_03: And such an um an amazing invitation that Christ is giving is not just to know him as shepherd, but then like we become like the shepherd and are able to see that God has a plan to um even like work in and through us for for the sake of others.
SPEAKER_03: So, Father, as we wrap up our time here, um what are some closing invitations to kind of take this into our week?
SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say reread this gospel.
SPEAKER_00: I think this is a gospel that pertains to our everyday living in and out, because we are allowing the voices to influence us in some sometimes detrimental ways, good voices, voices that want the good for us, but we're not allowing for God to be, for Jesus to be that priority in our life.
SPEAKER_00: And so I would say take stock, reread this gospel and ask yourself those hard truths.
SPEAKER_00: What voice is prominent?
SPEAKER_00: What voice am I allowing to lead me?
SPEAKER_00: Because Jesus can't be one among the many voices, can't be a supplement to what you're already doing.
SPEAKER_00: No, Christ is a center, and then you can follow some other these other voices and uh live a good holy life.
SPEAKER_00: But you got it's got to be clear because the moment that you decide, the moment that you claim him, the moment that you decide to stay in the flock, and the moment that you allow yourself to be led, that's where you start to live differently.
SPEAKER_00: That's when people will see that Christ lives in you and they're gonna want that.
SPEAKER_00: They're wanna know him, and they're gonna want to say, I want that, Jesus.
SPEAKER_00: But it takes hard work.
SPEAKER_00: It's gotta, it's gotta get out of the indifference, it's gotta get out of the comfort zone and say, I choose, I'm making the decision to make Christ the Good Shepherd.
SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you all for listening to us for this session.
SPEAKER_03: And just invite you to share this if you think someone else would benefit from our podcast today.
SPEAKER_03: Um, and what a beautiful closing.
SPEAKER_03: So thank you, Father.
SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Michelle.
SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next week.
SPEAKER_00: God bless.