Where Aviation Meets Sports & Entertainment | Jimmy von Korff

Jimmy Martinez von Korff is an entrepreneur, advisor and technology executive working at the intersection of aviation, digital media, and sports innovation. He is the Co-Founder & Executive Chairman Immfly & NIAN Sports Fund Advisor, focusing on transforming passenger experiences, advancing in-flight connectivity, and exploring how technology is reshaping fan engagement and the global sports industry.

In this episode, we explore why airline connectivity is still a challenge, why large industries struggle to adopt new technology, how the concept of the digital cabin is evolving, and the growing intersection between aviation, sports, and entertainment.

Key Learnings:
Innovation struggles in legacy industries
Passenger experience drives airline strategy
Technology is reshaping aviation and sports
Partnerships unlock industry transformation

0:00 Intro
3:24 Jimmy’s background
5:12 Why is airline connectivity still a struggle?
10:40 Why airlines hesitate to add new tech?
13:31 Airline business models
17:41 Implementation is the biggest challenge
19:11 In-flight entertainment
24:18 Comfort is the priority
26:13 The Digital Cabin
28:03 Synergies between airline (Immfly) & sports industries (NIAN Fund)
34:43 NIAN Fund & Investments
43:00 Fan engagement
47:11 What makes partnerships successful
52:47 Which industry has the highest growth potential?
55:50 Being financially sustainable as a business

Follow Jimmy:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmy-martinez-von-korff-5566b735/
Website: https://www.immfly.com/

Follow Not Just Money:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hantecmarkets/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/notjustmoney_podcast/ 
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@notjustmoney_podcast
Website: https://hmarkets.com/ 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

If I would own an airline, that's I hope I hope I I never do that. It's already tough. There are many ideas on how to increase the ancillary revenue, but there is almost none like putting one more seat, right? So but there is a limit there. It's a big challenge for the airlines and it's a dream. Not many nailed it. What we really wanted to build, you know, going back to the initial idea is to create that channel where the passenger interacts in the moment of truth, which is the flight. The digital cabin is is the concept of integrating the connectivity, the buy on board, um, which is all the duty-free, food, uh, all the services into one. And I think people more and more want less things and live more meaningful experiences. Now the IPs, right, uh, can interact directly with the funds. So if you can interact directly, how do you monetize them? Because we are a sector-focused fund, right? We we cannot invest in in a tech company we like because we said let's let's focus on on this thesis, no, uh, of sports, entertainment, life events, sport tech.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Let us enter the space, create these experiences, this community, this marketplace from a sports perspective. We're already in the airline space, and we want people to go from here with our technology on these flights to attend our events. Yes, exactly. That's it. Jimmy von Korf is an entrepreneur, advisor, a technology executive working at the intersection of aviation, digital media, and sports innovation. He is the co-founder and executive chairman at InFly and advisor to the NEON Sports Fund, focusing on transforming passenger experiences, advancing in-flight connectivity, and exploring how technology is reshaping fan engagement and the global sports industry. In this episode, we explore why airline connectivity is still a challenge, why large industries struggle to adopt new technology, how the concept of the digital cabin is evolving, and the growing intersection between aviation, sports, and entertainment. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Not Just Money Podcast by Hantec Marcus. Guys, we have a very, very special guest today. Please welcome to the show, Mr. Jimmy von Korf. Jimmy, welcome to the show, man. Thanks. Uh thanks for having me. Thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it. So, Jimmy, as we were just talking off camera, you work in quite a niche space. You know, you started uh I'm Fly, right, in 2013, which is a company that focuses on airline um connectivity and you know in-flight entertainment and so on, and that you've been doing that for the last, you know, uh 10-15 years. Yeah, and also in conjunction with that, over the last couple of years, you've started um or joined the Neon, the NEON fund. Yes. And that is very invested on the sports tech and live entertainment side.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

So your experience is very interesting because you have experience on the tech and entertainment side in a niche place, and now you're trying to take that into a much bigger, you know, more general or more well-known, you know, industry.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

So what I'd love to talk to you about today is, you know, your experience in both, where are the synergies? And we were just talking off-cramer. There's a lot, starting with I'm fly, an industry that we all fly, but we don't know that there are companies like you that are actually providing the connectivity for us to connect to the internet and so on. So before we get into all of that, Jimmy, why don't you give all of us a little bit of background about yourself and we'll take you from there?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Yes, thanks so much. Um, yeah, like 12 years ago now, we started uh InFly with the idea of um really helping the airlines uh monetize their passengers more through like a digital experience. When we say digital experience, we we always think about you could monetize through um passengers paying more, so you increase the spend per head, or through third parties that want to connect, like this the brands, etc. Right. Or just improving the passenger experience, um, like with an entertainment connectivity system, or shopping is actually also increasing the the spend per head. If you um the the the planes where the spend per head is is higher, the NPS is also higher. Really? That's interesting. That is interesting. So so in 2013, you we didn't have uh, I don't know if you remember the airplane mode came into the market. Yeah, yeah. Before you couldn't have a digital device which is not certified in in the aircraft, you had to switch it off. So when that regulation opened up the opportunity, we thought I think it's we we thought it's a great idea to start building applications for the airlines to capture the value of this captive passenger, which is he's not going anywhere for so long, he can't even move. So, yeah, this digital ecosystem, let's say, not only for the passenger but also the crew applications and all that, um, was something new, you know, that we could enter. And we were one of the first, and 12 uh years after, we have some products that are number one in in their their niche, as you say. So, so it's a nice experience.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

For sure. So let's give the audience more context about this space because I think it's a maybe a pain point that a lot of us share, you know, everyone flies, like we were just saying, but till this day, with new aircraft and new technology, connectivity is still this area that has not gotten to a level of what you would expect for how far we've come from a tech technology perspective. I don't know how AI is gonna affect this now. We maybe we'll dive into that a little bit. But for the people who don't know and who are frustrated sitting on the plane, like, man, I can't connect, I can't do anything. What's the biggest issue in that space and why is it still lagging behind where we are in technology today?

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yes, you're completely right. In the last connectivity started some more or less 15-20 years ago, first aircraft. And for all that period, the technology has been quite similar. And um, so you had uh antennas which were quite heavy um in the in the top of the aircraft that connected to us to satellites, uh and the satellite constellations were very far. Like they still uh most of the uh satellite constellations are still very far, which are the they are called uh Leo constellations. Okay, sorry, the Geo constellations. Okay, the new the LEO are the new ones. So now the the the reason for that was that because the satellites are so far, the latency was very, very high. And you you have that feeling that when you scroll uh nothing happens. So that rolling screen, that that loading. You have to think that those satellites um they are like 36,000 kilometers from the earth, and normally it's three satellites that give coverage to most of the world, uh not uh the poles and everything. And some constellations have more focus than maybe the US or more some in Asia. But the difference is that now, like Starlink or OneWeb, and which are these new new Leo constellations which are very close to the Earth, uh let's say between 500 kilometers or uh and um thousand two hundred kilometers, yeah. Wow, it's like thirty times closer. Wow, the latency is like more than 10 times lower and it's um like at home, right? The problem is that starting launched uh their product um one year ago, and we actually have launched our newest product like a few months ago. So until all the aircraft, you know, uh start having this technology, it takes some time, but the the the the future in the next 10 years, uh most of the aircraft will be equipped with HOMA-like uh connectivity. Well, um I can't wait for it.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

I can't wait to be able to watch YouTube and enjoy some stuff, some stuff on the flights. But to your point, you said now Starlink has entered the space. I know with in-flight, it's a combination of hardware and an application, right? It's a bit of it's both hardware and software. So uh Starlink is you know, you get the you get the box, and then like that's how you connect to the internet and you can place it wherever. So is the technology that you guys are now and like doing as well more smaller hardware, but that is more, I say, let's say efficient to make to start doing those connections. Is that kind of the idea?

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Correct, yes. Uh good point. And continuing with the with the argument, one thing was how far the start and the satellites are, and the second thing is the antennas. The antennas are much more efficient now, and there is uh a new new concept which is the electronic steered antenna, which is so much more efficient, and that's also that permits also to give the lower latency. Before the antennas, they would move, um, they would move to catch the satellite. Okay, and they would move literally within the the radome, you know. And now that it's an electronic uh signal um that detects the um the satellite and and it's not moving, so it's a flat antenna, and that's so much more efficient, and that's um it's easier to install also the antennas and permits to to make it easier to the airline to to to also incorporate this new technology.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Sure. And when you talk about you're talking about satellite and constellations, so Starlink obviously has its own, you know, constellation, there's different satellites. So with what with when you guys started, did you have to go into that space of building and sending satellites so you people could like use your services and connect, or was it we're gonna create the heart the the infrastructure like from a hardware perspective and the app to connect to these massive big satellites that are already up there and existing? Yeah, no very good point.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Thanks God we didn't build any satellite constellation because uh it's it's a very hard business, and and then we've seen Elon and and and and Bezos enter the market, so all the rest of constellations have gone dramatically down. So thanks God because at some point we considered we um but but we decided not. We we decided to enter where we where we're good, which is providing the service, integrating the service and and working really closely with the airlines and integrating all the systems to their systems, you know, and their experience.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

So when you're having those conversations with the airlines 10 years ago compared to the conversations you're having now, I I would imagine this is I would guess that now they're much more interested in this space and how to leverage as much as they can per passenger, maybe compared to before. So, but I still feel from an outside perspective who knows nothing about the industry, by the way, I still feel there's a resistance because as we were just talking, if you're running an airline, you're renting a lot of your fleet, that's a big cost. So the incentive to add these things on, it's like, yeah, great, you could make more money, but their priorities would rather typically, in my opinion, be more focused on more seats in the plane.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

No, that's correct. I mean, the the CEOs have different KPIs. The the airlines of the CEOs of the airlines have different IPIs. One is the they call cask is the the cost of available available seat per kilometer. Okay. So for example, the low low-cost carriers, this is like uh um number one priority. No, and the second is is the NPS, uh obviously, like in in many consumer and and services businesses. And and the other one is um obviously uh this ancillary world, right? Um you you need to um charge uh someone something for um moving you from point A to B. But you you have that passenger that goes through your app, goes through um is in your plane for for some time. What else can I sell to them? So it's the this ancillary um number or the the spend per head, um which which you can you can play with thanks to all this new digital engagement and relationships with their with their passengers, which I think the airlines own more and more. Yeah, I don't know if you remember before the travel agencies and and true, very good point. Yeah, very true. And now they own that more so and they are they're gaining um more more profits from that.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

From that. So the insill so it sounds like the ancillary revenue space is what's really growing at the moment for these airlines.

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yes, exactly. Because costs, I mean, at some point you can't uh reduce so much fuel with the planes this big, we only got so many seats, right? So yeah, you gotta play in a different way, yeah. And and with time, what we're seeing is the the airlines are are also changing their their positioning. No, some were very, very low cost, and they have started giving more service because they have pressure from the consumer, you know and for example in the US, the low-cost model is not as successful than in in Europe, no. So there are also different differences between the markets, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Low-cost airlines in the states, I've flown them and I've flown in Europe as well. Sorry guys, the ones in the states are very bad. Yeah, I'm sorry, they're very bad. And I've always wondered different business models of like airlines now that you bring up low-cost in this. Because the low-cost ones, you're like, Yeah, I'll buy my ticket for let's say 100 pounds, 100 euros. Yeah, but then if I want headphones, you'll charge me five. If you want food, you're gonna charge me a little bit more, right? For everything, or I can go for the bigger airlines, you know, that are more established brands that within my ticket price, all the the the the additional like in-flight entertainment, the food, whatever is built into that. From your experience since you've been in the space, I always wonder which which makes more sense, you know, or like from your perspective.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

If if I would own an airline, that's I hope I hope I I never do that. It's already tough. This is I know I know a lot of uh airline CEOs or or executives, and I don't know why the airlines always get hit by everything that happens, either it's the weather or COVID or you know, uh a war, they always get affected by by everything. So um yeah, I think if if I would have an airline, I I like that if you give this options that you can pay on demand, but those are great. I think it's better. I give you an example. Um what would you prefer? Like to have free free a free meal, right? Or being able to pay, but they give you like really nice selection of of food, you know?

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

I'd rather pay for sure. Right? Yeah, so and that's why we're something that we're working a lot, is for example, the pre-order, that you pre-order food and you can um buy it. Because if you pre-order and people know what you want, and you can they can deliver it to the to the aircraft, uh they have some time to to um to do that, but they can bring higher quality, or even for example, airlines like jetblue in the New York, sure sure. You can partner with um even restaurants from New York City to, you know, uh really, yeah, and and and and bring it to you if interesting. But if if you don't know until the moment of the of the flight, you cannot bring that level of of experience, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Yeah, I guess from an that's about I never knew that you could do that, like airlines could do that, or that would be an option, but the way I think of it, I'm like, why haven't they? Because I can imagine, I can look at it in two ways on the food perspective, because I'm like, okay, there's 250 plus people plus minus on my plane, right? I from a logistics perspective, is it better for me to just have a set menu and give you all one or two options and choice, or is it better to give you maybe five options, but then you can pick it ahead of time, but I'm gonna charge you more for that extra headache in a way, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yeah, I mean, the ideal scenario for an airline is everyone pre-orders. Really? Yeah, everyone everyone pre-orders, and so they know exactly uh what they need because even when they give they always need the famous uh pasta, chicken or pasta. So very true. You know, so they they still have a lot of waste and and all that. So the more this could be built into the booking funnel, and imagine with the ticket, you know, you have all this nice selection of food, and you already pre-ordered it. That's the dream because you can program it and um, yeah, it's uh you can coordinate all that better. Because if if you think about it, it's it's it's a it's a huge challenge to bring something to the aircraft. You know, it has to pass from to to airside, the kit the kitchens are you know in in the airports. Uh there could be last-minute changes in the uh, you know, they they swap the aircraft because of everyday things happen and and and and all that supply chain management is is has to be coordinated at the at the at the minute, otherwise delays and all that.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

And when uh coming back to the uh on the logistics aspect for sure, I think is a big one. And I think the logistics aspect we were talking about it in food, but I think that applies to what you guys do as well because there's also the what we talked about earlier, how deploying all that across your whole fleet is not only time consuming, but what if you know one plane something happens and then you have to you know change it. So you have to keep a consistent uh I guess uptick of you know your services, your products to ensure that there's consistency across. Yes, and I think consistency across is probably one of the biggest challenges because also airlines travel all over the world to different places, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:07

Yes, yes. No, that's a good point. Um, and it's a very it's a big challenge for for the airlines and and it's a dream. Not not many um nail it, but um just to start with, you know, they for example they don't have all the same aircraft, you know. Very good point, right? Different configurations, right? Different configurations, and then you have the different systems. Um but uh yeah, I think they are making uh an effort to to do that because it's also easier to manage if you if you have consistency of course through the fleet. And in terms of installation, yeah, I mean the connectivity solution, it could take um uh between a year or two to install the whole fleet, and the the buy on board uh retail technology. I think in the in in in four months you can have the whole fleet installed, so it also depends on the product.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Okay, yeah, that's actually very I never I never thought of that. And when you talk about so you guys started in the space with connectivity, that was the the key entertainment and connectivity. Okay, exactly. So I wanted to come on to the entertainment part because the connectivity I get now, it's about you know how you connect, the latency that we said, the quality, the efficiency. Where did the entertainment side fit into this? Like from your perspective at the time, why did you also want to focus on I guess putting those two things together, like combining them?

SPEAKER_00 19:29

I think part of the reason was that um connectivity was not as good, you know, uh at that time. So, what we really wanted to build, you know, going back to the initial idea is to create that channel where where the passenger interacts in the moment of truth, which is the flight. So, what could you have uh offer the to the passenger? There's connecting, there's also watching stuff, no, and like this more the entertainment uh could be a hook, no, the new the newest release which is in the cinema that you can watch it in uh on board through your own device or in the um yeah short medium flights or through the screen. That's the um uh that's the hook, right? The the the moment where you can talk and communicate digitally to the passenger, or um the the them or the e-commerce, no the buy on board. Um so these are the three services that that we that we combined, and that's why entertainment we thought it's a hook. So let's also build the entertainment solution and and and yeah, it was it was great for some time, and now connectivity is is taking the space, right? Because as connectivity improves, uh you you you need less the the catched content, right?

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yeah, of course, because then yeah, if my connectivity is good, then I have I don't just need what you will offer me on the plane to watch, I can watch whatever I want. Correct, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Correct. I think there's still um it's it's still positive what I said before, which is it's still a good hook, though.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

If you have movies that are still in the cinema and that are in the the um early release, I think it's nice, you know, because um it's it's it's it's something quite exclusive and unique that you only have uh that window on board and you could you couldn't go to the to the platforms um and watch it sometimes, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Yeah, so on the entertainment side, because to me that seemed like a I understood that there's the and there's a connectivity, the entertainment, and the e-commerce, but the the e-commerce I kind of get because connectivity and that kind of go together, but the entertainment side is interesting because it feels like almost a completely different business model and different challenges. Because don't you need to get like rights for the entertainment? You have to develop these like long term partnerships. So could you tell us about the entertainment aspect of how this comes into the you know the airline piece?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Yes. Um, as as you said, right? I think the one part is the the software that you need to create a player, no matter if it's we we do from your own device. I don't know if you have seen that. Khaled, when when you connect to this connectivity platform, sometimes they also have this um entertainment module where you can watch from your phone, right? Yeah, true, true. And and sometimes you have it on the screen. So we we do both, depends on on the airline. So that's the software component, you doing the user experience of that, and then you need the to secure the rights and have a content uh offering that you package, right? You have TV shows, you have uh documentaries, yeah. Of course, and you need to um we we act so I think in the fourth fifth year of the company, we sp spoon off a division which is called um quiver tree media, which is actually um going very well as well. And and they act as a content service provider for for MFL and for others as well, you know. Okay, interesting. Yes, and those are the ones that have all the um partnerships with the content providers. The interesting thing about Quiver Tree Media is that they also monetize the owned media, which is they act as a media sales company. So when you see a movie and you see people for a pre-roll, that's also we can also secure, which is you give the content, but you can't you give also the advertiser to monetize again for the airlines is key.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Very true, you know. I never until you said that, because obviously when I watch movies on planes, there's always the first like two to three minutes, it's ads, depending on where I'm flying to visit X, you know, come stay at this hotel, go do that. I never I never knew I never paid attention to that.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Or even in the um shorter flights, I don't know if you've seen airlines that have this headrest with an advertising uh paper. It's it's more offline, but it's also something that QuiverTree does, and and it moves millions and millions because uh the volumes of passengers, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Yeah, there this is so interesting to me. That's because it's all new. I've never heard about all these different verticals.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

All the for example, uh, if you you can target the advertising for everyone that is going to London, you know. So so the advertisers that have the uh yeah, tourist uh tickets or or even the bigger brands, uh the the e-seams, for example, are great uh uh uh sponsors and all that.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Sure. And when it comes to so I think one thing to take into account is I when I think about when I fly, I'm like, who do I want to fly with and why? I always think about the most besides the connectivity and entertainment, which is a massive important piece because you know I'm stuck in a chair, so I want something that you know I can do the most with, is the comfort of the actual plane, like the seats, you know, do they are they comfortable or whatever? Because I think no matter how nice this is, if that's not there as a as a starting point, yes, then this becomes not not needless, but there's there'll be a cap on how far it can go, in my opinion. What what would you say to that?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

You you're completely right, and you said it before, right? If you you said something like uh the priority should be having one more seat, you know. I mean, there are many ideas on how to increase the ancillary revenue, but there is almost none like putting one more um uh seat, right? So uh but there is a limit there, so there's they they are playing uh what what we have seen is that airlines they they've gone very aggressive, and some airlines sometimes have gone back uh a little bit, you know, and then offer more space. So they've been trying what's the sure what's the sweet spot, what's the sweet spot? No, but it's um I mean there's nothing worse than than being in, yeah. Also depends on how tall you are and everything, but yeah, it's uh um it it's it's uh it's an important um element to have for for the for the airlines to fine-tune uh to get the right model, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Of course, yeah. And I guess like you said, depending on how the industry evolves and what trends are coming, you're gonna decide what limit do I want to start pushing. Is it the extra chair or do I want more connectivity, more ancillary revenue, and so on? And you talk about the digital cabin. And that was I've never heard that before. So could you tell us a little bit more about what is a digital cabin and what in that I guess ecosystem at the moment at least seems to be the highest priority?

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Yes. Um, I would say that as as I as we said before, costs are now difficult to lower even more. So I think the focus in the digital cabin is to use the onboard experience as a as a place to have this relationship with the passenger. Um so NPS and growing the spam per head will would be the priorities. I the digital cabin is the concept of uh integrating the connectivity, the buy on board, um, which is all the duty-free food, uh, all the services into one, you know, so cabin crew knows okay, this is my frequent flyer that flies with me, and he normally likes uh to have uh uh Coca-Cola and and and a steak, and um this this this other um uh passenger in in the C22C is the first time he he logs in, and and he's still not a frequent flyer, but he can become a frequent flyer in the cabin because it's the first time they fly with with us, and so all that ecosystem and then reporting back um during the flight or or just after the flight directly to the uh airline CRMs, the kitchens, the the maintenance of uh the the aircraft, you know, um to to keep improving the the performance. That's the digital cabin when all the operation comes into one um central knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Yeah. And now I wanted to kind of bring the conversation into the into neon and like you know the the similarities and uh you know that space. And I was just thinking when I was doing my research, I'm like, you know what? When you look at airlines and they want to like do partnerships, I'm a football fan, so like I watch football. They usually will sponsor a football team, you know, whatever. So that's the only link I see between like, or like maybe for the World Cup, they'll be like, hey, you get this deal and this offer and these discounts. But Neon is a is more as of a is a sports-focused, like it's more of a it's a sports-focused fund, right? So I would I'd love to hear where did the idea to enter this space come from, and was that partnership link that you guys probably already have with the airlines? Now the sports is the the third, you know, the third partner in that, I guess, ecosystem, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:50

I th I guess it's uh it's a bit unrelated from a sector's perspective, but more from my my uh career uh and an ambitions perspective because I think MFly was more a first, you know, company and and project uh we built and which was super exciting. We we learned so much. I think it's there's still so much opportunity. Um, but I have always had uh a lot of passion for the for the sports world, the artist, the creative world, and and I think if you think about also how the how the world is changing, right, with with AI, with um probably in the future more more free time uh for people, and and I think people more and more want less things and live more meaningful experiences. And if you think meaningful experiences could be going to a concert, um um doing a marathon, um, going to a sports event, but also travel, you know. That's I think that would be the link and travel and um sports entertainment. If you define if you if I ask you what what was one of the most happy moments of of last year, most of the people said when I did this trip to there, or when I was in that experience with people and community, you know. So so I think that's where where the font is going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Interesting. Okay, I see how you that's actually it's a very smart move because to your point, that industry that this space, the sports space in general, with tech, with live entertainment, is actually growing massively, even since past even post-COVID. I think it's even it's growing even more now. I was watching the the analytics or the numbers for the Super Bowl that just happened, and they're like, they're showing how much revenue has been increasing year on year for live sporting sporting events. I don't know if that was just in the US, but I think that's happening globally too. Globally, globally.

SPEAKER_00 30:46

You look at Asia, you look at Europe, everywhere, the football clubs, uh, and then the basket clubs or the tennis um IPs and tournaments, they are all growing in value, growing in engagement, and um yeah, it's it's it's it's incredible. I mean, also the new concepts, you know, that are are coming. We had you have the traditional um yeah, football, tennis, uh, basketball, etc. But then you have these new concepts that are coming in, you know, with with creators, with um, I don't know, fighting leagues that are massive with new rules. With uh I don't know if you have heard about the Kings League, which is from JRPK, but it's a new way of uh using football, but with different rules and with uh athletes, celebrities, and and growing massively, interacting with fans like never before, being monetized in very smart ways. So that's a whole um trend for the last uh years now, especially after COVID.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Yeah, no, for sure. And like you said, these all these new concepts are coming out, and they're almost like remixes on the traditional you know, global sports, right? Yes. Um, and I think the remix is happening because it is more focused and targeted to the younger generation that's coming up because they're the audience, you know, they're your future audience for the next 20, 30 years. So you need to build it around them, more engaging, faster rules, shorter games, you know. So I it makes a lot of sense. Yes. And also the reason you guys entered the space now makes a lot of sense to me because you're like, okay, let us enter the space, create these experiences, this community, this marketplace from a sports perspective. We're already in the airline space, and we want people to go from here with our technology on these flights to attend our events. Yes, exactly. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Yeah, most of the time you travel to go to an event. Exactly, yeah. I mean, many, many, many, many times, 100%. So I don't know, I I agree. I mean, uh it's it's very exciting what's happening, and for us, the most important is look at these IPs and and see has this it's like in the aircraft that the aircraft had the potential to to to have this unique channel, right? And this people going through um the this airline channels that we can monetize, you know. And in the fund, what we're looking at is IPs that have the leverage to build those communities. Because now you you're the way you monetize is through this relationships with your community.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Spot on 100%. And when you talk about uh IPs, Jimmy Sar, Sarge Introduction. The that's the reason I also believe that podcasting has exploded is because it's it's an example of that, you know, because now me as Khalid, you as Jimmy, we can own, we can start our own, and now we are basically building our own IPs. Yes, you know, and that is the gonna be the game now. Yes, it's gonna be all about IPs. You see any person, big uh influencer, actor, whatever who have their own, you know, like IP, that's then you can let fit whatever product, service, whatever you want under that umbrella or personal brand, if you want to call it, or company brand, and then everyone's gonna buy into it because they already bought into the original thing that you built.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Yes, I think uh there is there is uh complete uh ownership between the artist, the platform, and the fan. And there is no you know that the the value that the the the sponsors and the the the I don't know in in the past no this competitions or the the football clubs or uh the broadcasting companies that the power is lower, you know, and that's a a great opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I want to talk about how you guys actually set up the fund because you've approached it in uh in a unique way. It's not just you know pure investment, there's like flexible capital, and then there's different ticket sizes and so on. So, could you tell us more about the financial model, I guess, of how you guys have set up the fund and what pain point were you trying to address by setting it up in this way?

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Yes, because we are a sector-focused fund, right? We we cannot invest in in a tech company we like because we said let's let's focus on on this thesis, no, uh, of sports, entertainment, life events, sport tech. And um it's good that you approach um uh the investment from a flexibility point of view, and that you can invest in in many different ways. For example, we we could take a majority of a business and a minority, you know. We could invest with equity, which is our preference, but we could also um prepare a credit facility or or private debt um for that company. If it's a good project, we want to support it somehow with with the fund, and that's why we believe that becoming very experts in the sector and being able to help um those companies better than any other fund because we are sector oriented in our network, our resources um have that capability is is um is the key. How do we invest? Depends on the project, you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Okay. And what are you what's the what kind of projects are you guys looking at? Maybe there's some I don't know if you can you can share with us of some that you guys are in and why did you decide to join them? Because it might be interesting for people to know because you guys are looking at where's what has the highest leverage and where's what's gonna have probably the highest growth potential over the next you know five to ten years. So it'd be cool for people to know like what's out there because BD, we probably we probably don't.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah, I give you a few examples of company we have invested. Uh you tell me your opinion, but um, so we can invest in very quite early stage. We we like that those companies are close to profitability or or so pre-seed, uh I would say seed or series. Yes, yes, yeah. Um they have to show already that there is some uh brand that they have built. Um but we I mean if if it's really really interesting and it's pre-seed, uh we we can look at it as as well, you know. Um that's why we are sector-oriented, and um, if if the project is very sexy, we we will go for it. Yeah, for sure. And and even more mature. Uh, if there's a project that's a bit more mature and in terms of valuation, it's higher than when uh our uh sweet spot, um, we could still enter. The idea is that the fin the fund has a mix of companies that have really high growth potential, but also a lot of risk, but also a few that could be a bit more mature. Uh so I give you a few examples of investments we we did last year. One is um the the MMA fighting league um that is called Woe in Spain, that's uh also Iliatopuria. Oh yeah, of course, yeah, of course, of course. A few months ago, uh Cristiano Ronaldo also entered. Okay, okay. The image of of fighting. Um it used to be something that some people know would would think, oh, this is um yeah, obviously very aggressive, etc. But more and more you see uh more families and and and going there and absolutely and and a respect between the fighters than before you you wouldn't see as well. So and and it's part of the culture of the founders of WoW. And yeah, I mean we we're looking at uh expanding the brand, and yeah, so that's an example. So cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um for we we also invested in a music festival uh which is called Onda Linda, it's like a high-end festival which by invitation only that has um first festival uh for in in Carey, in the Pacific coast of Mexico, it's amazing, um, which is now growing to new locations. Amazing. Yes, yes. Uh you can see there how also the segmentations of the products. No, this is um a festival where the the ticket of the festival is quite uh high. The the the commit the the number of people is not that um big, but the production is like if it would be for uh 10,000 people, you know. And and this type of of things also is an example of how before there were many types of products, and now there is it's more segmented also. And and and one of the third investment we did last year is we invested in the first tennis academy of uh Qingwen Zen, which is the number one tennis player in uh in China and top 10 uh the first top 10 Chinese uh Chinese tennis player um in the professional uh tennis circuit. And we're building a first tennis academy, which will be in Barcelona, but we're uh expanding also more academies in in China because she trains in Barcelona. So okay, yeah, so it makes that makes sense. Yeah, so it's a phenomenal partnership and and a great idea. I might be you probably know other other tennis academies like the Rafana Academy that was success or replicating that, but also with different approach, different personality and athlete, and and also the different market, no, with the Chinese component.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

So it's first of so cool. I'm a big sports fan. I watch UFC, I love the fighting. I like tennis. I'm not that big into, but I used to play for many years. You know, what is one sport that I just took up recently that has exploded here is paddle. And I know Spain is known to have the best, you know, players in the world, and it's really like here the community has exploded. You could find a paddle court behind, it's probably one under here that we don't know about. Yes. And what's interesting is okay, so I understand the the avenues you're looking into. So you have you know the fighting, you have sports, you have music, you know, you have so I get that side. Where does the what kind of tech stuff are you guys looking at? Because I don't even know what uh when you talk about sports tech, I only think about obviously the big brands, and it's when it comes to maybe designing the shoe and that. So what tech areas are you guys looking into?

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Yes, we're for example, very interested in in everything related to hardware. Uh for the yeah, hardware for the um uh detection of biomarkers and you know, like the whole uh whoop or uh I mean there's a new wave of of technology coming that also you know uh detects the b biomarkers on sweat or you know this type of technologies. And we're we're very uh interested. We're looking at at different things there. Um we're looking also into um yeah, uh we're looking at uh VR um for for the the whole experience to give an additional component. Uh I know VR has had his ups and downs, but uh also with the uh with the with the um incorporation of AI and and the content the the quality of the content that AI can bring to VR. Um it's uh it's it's an interesting uh space to look at. Um I think I think right now hardware is a bit more interesting than than than software for us. Um uh uh when we talk about tech.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Sure. Yes. So very cool, obviously wearing with right now. Um this space when you brought it at it from that angle. I just had ideas on like if you invest in something that can do tracking and whatever, tracking is such a massive space in the sports you know field, and you could license that out to clubs, football clubs, and different teams. So the potential there is massive, it's quite big. But you mentioned VR. So I spoke to someone who um was working with football with football clubs as well and creating um metaverse experiences, so you can go and there's like I sat down with them, showed that you can walk around, I can sit in the stadium and like watch the game like I'm watching it on TV. So now, because even with the the all the stuff you mentioned, fan engagement is crucial. Yes, it's all about it all comes down to that. You know, if you can't engage the fans, the sport's never gonna grow and the money's never gonna come in to take it where it could be. So looking at you being in the space, what do you see as long-term trends now coming in the fan engagement in the fan engagement sector sector? Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

In a very simplified way, is um as we said before, right now the IPs, right, uh can interact directly with the funds, the fans. So if you can interact directly, how do you monetize them? So if you the the more trendy ways to monetize is is building all that loyalty scheme. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 44:05

And through that loyalty scheme, you you build um uh uh yeah a very uh a business model which is potentially more membership or potentially more add-on and you know increase the the number of services adding third parties so they can bring new services and then monetize more I mean there there is not much more I mean that's these are these are the ways you know and it's interesting also in the fan engagement space um that there's been a kind of like it's so interesting kind of like what you you guys were doing with ImFly and what's going on in aviation space all these clubs and teams are looking at how can we add more ancillary revenue to us besides just ticket sales.

SPEAKER_00 44:50

Yes those are experiences you know is that what's going on so you have experience in like now playing in both and addressing those the same problem but in different sectors in different ways so where are the links between the two and how has your experience with MFly helped what you guys are doing with Neon now from that perspective yeah yeah I think I think a good example is all these loyalty schemes and how to how to bring partners to your loyalty how to monetize loyal loyalty um I would say that's that's uh a clear one um and and and this obsession of um I think that's not so linked to the travel industry but most of these IPs in sports and entertainment are also thinking how can I apart from selling something through that event but also have a recurring revenue and and this is uh yeah this is something they can build through building a stronger community and and services around the community so so I think that's um what these IPs are well the trend that we're seeing. I don't know if it links to so much to my previous experience. I think what I'm bringing more from the previous experience to the fund is this the experience of building this bigger partnerships or investing in companies and which is more the the expertise you need in the fund to help the airlines or even do the do investments yeah so because at MFly we did you know we we got investment from a lot of strategics and we in we bought companies and we did uh joint ventures and and all that knowledge you bring to to the fund to the fund yeah to help those uh yeah because in the entertainment industry and um it's not it's not as scalable sometimes as it is as a software or continuous um if you think about uh events right it's not so scalable so so MA is very important like the the whole adquisition games and growing through acquisition is is very important as well yeah might as well take someone who's already built it in the space you know instead of trying to you know reinvent the wheel as they say right yes exactly and when it comes to strategic partnerships because uh you know you've worked with airlines it sounds like they're not this that's not easy to deal with it takes a long time to implement but the same thing I I would say the same I'd say sports is just as harder.

SPEAKER_01 47:23

I feel those two industries like sports aviation entertainment I sometimes think that these kinds of industries are very yes there's collaboration across but they're locked you know like it's it's really hard to penetrate them and build within them because you need to build the right networks to make you know that happen. So when it comes to strategic partnerships if I came to him like Jimmy man I'm thinking of you know taking on this partner and I think it's good I think it's strategic what advice would you have and where have you seen in your experience that partnerships crumble?

SPEAKER_00 47:56

Yes I this is a very important question because I think being good if if you have someone that's really good in business development and or or or or your board members that can really connect you and and understand what is the good partnership to to grow your company it could be um building a new product right or or expanding to a new market and you need your partner with someone to do that. Buying a company or doing like this big alliances that can transform your business right and no matter which industry any any of those um could be a complete inflection point that absolutely we we had in the MFLy um partnerships that were an inflection point for for us and all the investments we're doing with Nyan you can you see the same um those companies uh are and and the opportunities we're seeing some of these partnerships can be an inflection point for this company that where they start growing so much um and it's a very sophisticated job i mean to know how to do those partnerships is is I think from my point of view underestimated like because there are so many ways of doing it like giving exclusivity to someone or not um uh entering uh like by by yourself to to a new market or doing it with a partner and doing a JV or buying a company and then once you decide those things executed execute first the partnership with all the the small clauses and and little things that will make this successful you know because sometimes people sign stuff that um you you would wonder how how how difficult it is for many companies to to have people that can really um deliver a a very good partnership they have the idea oh it would be great if we partnered because imagine we would do together Mexico and so on and then and and now what?

SPEAKER_01 50:01

Yeah yeah there's a lot of detail that if you have a good team that know how to execute those partnerships your your your your business can can uh blow and to your point i like you said in both your experiences there were partnerships that became inflection points and took you to the next level but what you said there was really interesting Jimmy because it wasn't just it's not not just about the partnership but it's about what model of the partnership that we want to do. Do we want this way that way but I think from my experience and this is a personal question I always think my struggle as Khalid for example would be to judge the value of the partnership and judge it in a way where is are we both winning here or is one person or is one of us really getting the better end of the pie? You know what I'm saying? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

What do you think is the good outcome normally when do you think uh what what is the feeling what should the feeling be when you sign it?

SPEAKER_01 51:03

I think for me it should in I like to look at partnerships as instead of compete let's collaborate. So what are you good at that what are you good at that I can't do and what am I good at that you can't do and instead of that's a win-win right exactly instead of eating both these pies why don't we both go after this big one where we can serve both of these to a much bigger audience and our both of our offerings become much more attractive.

SPEAKER_00 51:26

Yes yes but when you are in that and and you're then that's the high level vision of the partnership right so when you're getting to details and and signing the agreement what do you think is is the right feeling after the the signature my experience is that at the end no one both are happy yes but not super happy because exactly we have given concessions of course it's it's a negotiation right of course yeah and I think that's I think that a the first sign of a promising partnership is like to your point once we sign the deal and we get up and we shake hands do we both feel good enough you know if we feel good enough and we're and we both share the same feeling I think that's a good starting point you know because I think it's never going to be perfect. Yes. You can see in the market different uh people have different approaches to business right of course you you you see the very the the the companies that try to be very dominant and and aggressive and and other uh profiles where they they look for the fair deal the fair deal that is more long term and you know and doesn't mean one is is better than the other but um people have different business approaches which could be both successful so jimmy I just want to round off our conversation Tay with another question or two um this has been such a fun conversation I've learned so much and area of field sports I'm much more familiar with compared to aviation yes if I was gonna tell you Jimmy okay you've been in the space for a while now you're in sports if you look over the next five to ten years where which industry do you think has bigger potential from an opportunity perspective yeah um I mean the the the current um feeling that uh we have at the at uh at the fund is is um everything related with longevity I mean it's it's it's booming and and when you when you see as we are in sports you know um everyone understands now that sports is uh uh makes you makes you healthier healthier lifestyle and and and we from the font perspective we're starting we we didn't start looking at it so much detail because we were more looking at specific IPs you know um but yes or yes we need to get in because there's so much going on and um and I think that space will be will be big you know how and how you connect longevity with creating those experiences that exactly help you to be live a uh a better and healthier life 100% and you know when you said like the health the health side I'm like yes you know we're people as humans we're always gonna care about our health it's uh you know it's always gonna be a number one priority but then I was also thinking I'm like yeah but we're always also gonna need to travel so it's probably it's probably just as I said as I said before everything that happens always hits the airlines you know the oil oil prices go go up the airlines suffer the uh covet or the the the weather or whatever you if you if you look at it they um it's it's funny because they they always get affected but more every year more people travel like it's non-stop for the last always since exactly since the um um 50s no since since the jet engine um so um good good uh industries to uh to be in excellent industries to be in but it's crazy on the longevity um part that how how how is it possible that right now it it got so quick and you know that it's growing so much you know uh yeah yeah that's because because you you was you would say why did we we we didn't care so much um 20 years ago about it why not and now so much you know yeah yeah I think I don't know I think maybe sometimes we underestimate the impact COVID had on on all of this could be you know because I think it taught us no matter no matter how much money in the world you have if you don't have your health it's you know it's it's it's pointless at the end of the day. Correct correct Jimmy for my last question I think with all the work you've done with MFly and now you know with the fund one of the one of the challenges of these industries is the to your point the longevity the sustainability and long long longevity of it and now sustainability is not just from an environmental perspective but also from a business perspective how do you keep the fund healthy how do we keep you know providing these new products to the business but still you know maintaining revenue so if you wanted to give someone advice from a financial financial sustainability perspective what you've learned what would you say to that I think it's it's a great question because we have lifted in our in in our own experiences uh um a few years ago with covet you know everyone was like for example in terms of valuations and raising funds and everything was growth growth growth uh at all cost you know and with my co-founder uh Pablo Linz uh at MFly we we said it's not the approach we want to take you know we we uh we want to do growth but um efficient growth you know like always protecting the cash and I think that's been a um a successful model um because uh what you can see now is that the market is moving to a more realistic approach on okay either you grow at very good um very good rates and um you control your cash expenditure or you're profitable and and you grow at less um uh strong um percentages right and and I think that's where the funds are now so if I the advice I would give is just try to be um cautious on on how much you you spent in the in the in the business and try try to grow grow but efficient growth exactly and to your point I was having a conversation uh this week uh with uh people who are in the VC space and whatever and they're all talking about how you know a how a VC wants to come in for an exit you know they're not here just to be there for a long time but obviously there's a there's different growth to your point there's the growth model there's more sustainable like um more efficient uh practices and I think one of the biggest issues in business is sometimes people chase the money first before figuring out yes what this is or how we refined it and set this up to be sustainable once the you know that money comes in. Very good point. Yeah and then the the the focus part I mean I think one of the startups is very very difficult because it's truly a game with at the beginning of the startup if you have five objectives post round you really have to hit like four or five I mean it's not like oh you know it's test here the no no the money's in now you have to deliver right so you you you you're you're really all the pieces need to go right until when you're a bit more mature that's why it's so risky um so try to identify those points really well and and and focus on on on on those you know yeah no 100% many I think that's a perfect way and such a perfect way to round off our conversation today I want to first start off by saying thank you so much for taking the time and joining us on the Not Just Money podcast today.

SPEAKER_01 59:13

I've loved this conversation it's been so much fun I've learned so much from you about industries that I didn't know existed what the links are and I think even on a higher level people looking at you know business and investment there's so much they can take away from this episode. So I wanted to say thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure thanks so much for for having me it was a very interesting conversation and for everyone that is listening and has a a great project in the sports and entertainment we would happy to look at it there you go and guys you know you know who to talk to now Jimmy my man thanks it's been a pleasure guys everyone listening thank you so much and we'll see you next time take care yeah thank you man appreciate you thank you so much thank you guys for joining us on another episode of the Not Just Money podcast if you haven't already I'd like to invite you to subscribe to our YouTube channel and follow us on socials to continue watching industry leader talk about the mindset tools strategies and share the money truths that no one teaches you. And remember guys when it comes to money it's not about flex it's about freedom