Not Just Money

What Nobody Tells You About Building Real Wealth | Sammy Koch

• Hantec Markets

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0:00 | 1:02:49

Sammy Koch is a Dubai-based serial entrepreneur, real estate and crypto investor, and founder of ICON X Network, a global business ecosystem connecting elite entrepreneurs, creators and investors. With a career built across property, digital assets and high-level networks, he brings a perspective shaped by both traditional and emerging markets.

In this episode we discuss how real estate investing compares to crypto, the secrets to building successful communities like ICON X, how to build your personal brand with social media and the trading lessons that took years to learn the hard way.

0:00 Intro
0:52 Who Is Sammy Koch?
2:45 Why He Got Into Real Estate?
7:35 The Biggest Challenges in Real Estate Today
12:58 Real Estate vs Crypto Investing
21:05 How He Built His Financial Literacy
25:17 Icon X Network
31:15 Inside the Trading Academy
34:30 How to Build a Successful Community
39:52 Social Media and Building a Personal Brand
47:33 Harsh Trading Lessons

Follow Sammy:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sammykoch/?skipRedirect=true
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sammykoch_/
Website: https://iconxnetwork.com/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@UCqrWLwlBbBwjne3Xag_1QLg 

Follow Not Just Money:
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hantecmarkets/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/notjustmoney_podcast/ 
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@notjustmoney_podcast
Website: https://hmarkets.com/ 

SPEAKER_00

In German, there is one saying, you don't talk about money. So this is a big thing. One of the biggest things in Germany, when you are not staying in this hotel, don't go to the hotel and make a picture. Yeah, because people will know. Maybe not at the beginning, maybe not in the first picture. But at one point, at some point, they will find out. And then you lose everything. I grew up like in I told you before in a small village. My mom worked in a kindergarten. So we dreamed every time, my brother me, we dreamed every time to becoming rich, getting money, making money. And I always try to make people better. It makes fun. Because I know where I come from, and I if I had someone who just would give me one person a day, to make me better one person a day, I would be very happy about it.

SPEAKER_03

I can find you a million people that will tell you real estate is the way to get rich, and now find a million people who will tell you crypto is the way to get rich.

SPEAKER_00

I think the big difference is the leverage in real estate. And now it's also possible to have this leverage thanks guys like you. You have to you can use also other people's money, I always say.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. So, Sami, I know you're a content creator, you're an investor in art, crypto, real estate. I know you're also involved in esports and combat sports. So, what I wanted to talk to you about today is Sami, get more of an idea of your background, understand how you got into the crypto space, where does you know the sports side fit into all this? And obviously, we want to touch on Icon X, your community and your ecosystem. But before we dive into all of that, Sami, why don't you give all of us a little bit of background about yourself and we'll take it from there? Perfect.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. Thank you for your invite again. So um, I grew up like in I told you before in a small village. So uh from like a single mother household, my brother and me. Um my mom worked in a kindergarten, and uh so we dreamed every time, my brother and me, we dreamed every time to becoming rich, getting money, making money. Because we um drove in a car, also my mom drove a car, and you hear this car like in a whole village, not because it is cool, not because it is super fast and loud, yeah, because it was so old. And um, so we say, okay, later we want to drive a cool car and uh make money, and to make all of this you have to work hard. Yeah, and uh, this was um all about. So um I start like working in a supermarket for like it was like if I say it in dirhams, it was like in dollars it was like five dollars, like approximately 20 dirhams per hour. Yeah, yeah. Uh and I have to collect like beer cans, and Germany beer is like a big thing. I I don't drink alcohol, but in Germany a lot of people drink, and I had to collect this beer, uh empty beer cans and uh put it in a big bag, and this was literally the job, so nothing special, but it was like first money in the age of 14, 15, and then I uh went to school. After school, I went for like directly start into real estate business, and from there things developed. Okay, yeah. You start I start to make first money because you're getting not paid by hour like before, you're getting paid for your performance and your commission, right? And your commitment, yes, commission is performance. And if you work harder, if you work longer per day, if you if you work in the night also sometimes, then you make more money, and then you can use this money and maybe buy a nice car. Yeah, then you can get the car, yeah. So uh, this is like uh the background. I started with uh real estate in Germany in Frankfurt. Why did you start in real estate? What was the thing that drew you to real estate to begin with? Good question. Uh I when I uh went to school, there came a lady. I never forget her. I'm very thankful. But I'm not in contact. I tried to find her, but I I can't remind remember well the school has not all the information because it's not digital in Germany at all. And this was like it was like 15 years, 16 years ago.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So a woman came to school and she was like um she was like giving consultancy for kids with what possible job they can go for. And um she asked me, What are you what do you want to do? And I told her, I want to be rich. I want I don't want to have a boss, I want to be rich, and I will do whatever it takes. So and she said, Okay, if you want to get become rich, you have to go into real estate. So, and then I said, Okay, then I will go into real estate. And then she I said, Can you help me? Where should I go? And then she said, I'm come was a small village, and then the school was in a small um city. Then she said, Okay, you have to go to the to Frankfurt on mine, it's like the capital city, like the finance city, the banks, the investment companies, the real estate companies are based there. So uh I said, Okay, then will I I will apply there? So I applied there. It's also a cool story. I will tell. I applied there. A big uh company said, Okay, uh, we can imagine you to have you as a trainee. Uh, one week, like unpaid, like traineeship. I went there, um, worked like very long, was one of the uh people who say the longest, even in a traineeship. Yeah, I have nothing to lose. I have a suit for $50, yeah, and that's it. Minus on my bank, like minus 200 uh euro, and that's it. So I have nothing to lose. Yeah, and I have a lot of time. So they uh went there, uh worked for um for one week, and then they said, Yeah, we have to tell you we are full. We don't take uh sorry, you work for free, we don't take. I said, I don't work, I didn't work for free, I work for the experience. I'm very thankful. Thank you for having me. It's you're one of it's what is it, one of the biggest international real estate companies, very well known. And I said, I have nothing to lose. And then they said, Okay, if you have nothing to lose, you can come a second week unpaid, also. I said, For sure, I can also come a third week, a fourth week, a fifth week. Don't matter, I learned, I have nothing to lose. So after the second week, they said, Okay, we kicked somebody out, you can have here's your contract. Really? Wow, yeah. Just because I because I I did the best out of the situation, and uh then they gave me like a contract to like um to learn. Like this is uh also like a traineeship, it's like two years. If you have a higher school, like in Germany it's called Abitur, okay, yeah, um then you can make then you can go for one one and a half years, and then you have like um the certification, but to um become or to work in real estate in Germany, there's no um clarifications, no requirements. Everybody can just go to government, pay approximately $400, and then they give you the certificate certification and say here you can start to uh uh start on real estate, have fun. Really? Yeah, but I but I wanted to because I I came I had I didn't had a lot of friends, like business people in my in my and my friendship. I had not the business family. I have I have to learn a lot. So in this case, I choose for like this big company. Please show me everything. At this time, I grew up when you have to go to the internet with this modem, you know, with this six trade dial in, and then when somebody is calling, the internet is not working. Yeah, imagine trading with this, yeah, doing trades with this uh technique, it would be terrible. So you what you said a trade you want to sell, and in this uh situation a call comes, yeah. Mom, please. I have to make trades. So um so it was so possible, and um so I because I think today, with all this technique, with all this um possibilities, with uh videos, YouTube, everything. I I think I could learn everything by myself. I don't need a company uh to show me everything, you know. So but at this time the technique was not so developed. Yeah, of course. You um you there was no other opportunity. So I went for went for, and after I finished this, I directly start my own business.

SPEAKER_03

Okay, in real estate. In real estate, okay, makes sense. So took what you learned and then applied it into you know your own. So you've invested in so you funny, so funny how you got into real estate just from that one woman who came and that conversation, and then you know that's how you ended up in the space. And then you go into starting your own real estate company, right? Yeah, so obviously real estate is a massive industry, you know, here, but I feel like there's there's an area of real estate as a business that you can only understand or appreciate the difficulty of behind on your side, not from a consumer, you know, like myself. So, what is it about the real estate business that, in your perspective, from your experience, is the most challenging?

SPEAKER_00

The most challenging, I think when you compare it with Dubai, Dubai is a crazy market. I think I I heard the crazy number is there are more than one million real estate agents. Yeah, there are a lot of uh developers. I think no nowhere in the world is it like Dubai that you have so many money, so many real estate projects, the buildings are so fast. Sometimes I leave Dubai for summer, I come back.

SPEAKER_03

A whole new development, yes, completely.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, of course. What is this? This is new. This so that's crazy. And you have no no nowhere else in the world I found it like this. So um it's a very fast market, a very developed market, a very offensive market. Um, so in like in in Europe, especially in your background is Amsterdam. I think I was also like uh really I worked also in real estate in Amsterdam because this company um that that I started worked globally. It was like a platform. I always say like um it is a platform where you list office buildings that is that are uh directly or immediately available. Yeah, so we both have a project in Amsterdam tomorrow. Okay, and we need an office space. So what can we do? We can rent a hotel room, maybe, sure, yeah, or like a conference center, but it's not a nice setup, or we can uh rent an office space fully set up, like like this studio. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and um then you need this maybe for a project like six months. And I um took every possibility like this, put it on a website, then you just type in the city and you see all immediately available office spaces. Yeah, so all for example, when you when you uh uh create a company, when you are startup, you use it, when you are existing company, big global company, you're expanding to new markets, you can use it. So I had customers all around the world and I was traveling a lot because everything went uh was digital, but for the for the um important customers or the big customers where is the high commission value, I traveled to meet them personally. And I think back to your question, I think this is uh one of the big points. Uh it's a people's business. Real estate is a people's business. I know a lot of nice projects here in Dubai. I'm also interested in buying, but um, I have in the beginning, everyone is everyone is very friendly. Hey my friend, I have a nice offer, exclusive, off-market, blah blah blah. Yeah, all what the the people are saying. I heard it million times, but they are not really your friends, they want to sell. And um the I think it's it's hard to find the real people who are not only want to sell, who want to create a relationship with someone, who gives you a nice value, who maybe also fight sometimes for you with the landlord. Stop, this is too high. Last week you uh offered it for like five or ten percent to the other customer of me. Of course, it's not nice for the real estate. The landlord will have an uh argument with you after this as a uh as a broker. I had a lot of arguments, yeah, yeah, a lot, but I was only always on the side of my customer. But the crazy thing is you get paid in like uh in for ex uh especially in Europe, and the main market of me was Europe, you get paid by the landlord. Yeah, in Dubai, often this is also the case that the landlord is paying uh the broker. You are getting paid by the landlord, but you should fight for the customer. It makes no sense, to be honest. Yeah, yeah. How can you get a and if you um lower the price, you lower your commission? So you are working. So are you so are you really working for this customer, for this client? And I think this was the big thing, um, the big difference that I did. I said, the client, listen, I am on your side, but I'm getting paid. But I will be on your side. I will show you all the data of the last deals I made, not with the company names. I'm not never um never called names, but I show you data, I show you all the information. Yeah, I I know the landlord will not like me. I'm not his buddy, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but the clients will like it. Yeah, and then they went to other clients and they are like and who is who are deciding for office space? The managing partner, the decision maker, the boss, the CEO. So mainly I had contact with these people. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So, and then if you have these people in your contacts, it's very helpful. Of course. Yes, yeah. So the landlords uh didn't like me, but the customers liked me. Exactly. I think this was the big difference um to the normal 99% of the normal real estate markets.

SPEAKER_03

And so the if real real estate's a people business, and it looks like all the other businesses you're involved in are people businesses, yes, you know, as well with the the esports, even with icon X, even with crypto. So before we get on to the networking side and icon X and like the points of difference that made you different stand out in the real estate space. Uh you've invested in real estate, you've invested in crypto. Every I can find you a million people that will tell you real estate is the way to get rich, and I'll find a million people who will tell you crypto is the way to get rich. Obviously, this is not financial advice, but because because you've been an investor in both spaces, what lessons have you learned of the differences between the two, and how has that helped you become a better investor in general in other in like the other spaces that you're involved in?

SPEAKER_00

Very good question. And uh it will be a long answer as well. At least but I love to talk, you know? That's the that's the way why I love this people's business, yeah? So and I always have to stop me because I talk a lot, yeah. So um I think the big difference is the leverage in real estate. And now it's also possible to have this leverage thanks guys like you. You have to you can use also other people's money, I always say. You can use other people's money to have like uh bigger value, and with this bigger value, you can make money. Before it was like when I started, there were were not so many um possibilities. So I was more on real estate because like banks in Germany they sometimes finance 100%. This is my salary, it's nice. I'm a young guy, I can work, I can pay off the debt my whole life. Please trust me. Here is the plan. I negotiated very nice with the landlord, also with the owner of this property, and I will get it like 20% off the market price. So no risk, uh dear lovely bank. Please give me the money. Worked well. Worked well a couple of years because like they gave millions of uh euro without any like own capital, often. Sometimes it was like 10%, but a lot of times also with 100%. Right now it changed. Right now, but not so uh crazy, it changed a little bit. You have to bring now 20%. So if I buy for one million, um I have to bring 200,000 by myself, 800,000 by bank. Yeah, so and um so I could uh leverage very nice with uh other people's money and um use it as my benefit. Sure. Because the money I made, I always like um invested in I didn't buy like expensive holidays or not expensive cars like I alre originally planned, but at the end I invested a lot, yeah, invested a lot and or nearly everything, and um crypto like years before, it was not a possibility that you have this leverage, so you only can use your own money. But my um I was very lucky, I came to crypto very early, okay, like 2014. I know the first time when I heard about it, it was in a very shitty office. Next to me was like um Harley Davidson driver. There was like a tuning um tuning uh where they where they tuned, so you can imagine what was the sound. And on the other side was like um hospital, do do ambulancia. So I was surrounded, and I was sitting in the middle of them, yeah. And they were worked also very hard in the day and in the night. Yeah, true. So um, and I was sitting there surrounded by all of these people, and um, like we had a trainee from Australia, she was open-minded. Her boyfriend was uh working um in investment, and she came to me and said, Look here, did you hear about crypto? We are uh investing and then we will make money and travel the world 2014. Yeah, I think the Bitcoin price was like $400 or even less, and she showed me everything, and I directly recognized because I always was like uh nerd. Like, this is also uh the gap to esports because in school time I loved Counter-Strike. Oh, yeah, me too. As the best game as still when I have time, but not so much, often maybe once in two months. Yeah, quick scrim, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Connect contain, yeah, yeah. It's so nice, really. It's so nice. Yeah, and we grew up with this, yeah. For sure. We had like I think 30 FPS, like the the we moved like like a robot, but it worked out, it was nice, it was a nice time. So this is the reason why I love like uh Counter-Strike. It's um it's like uh since the beginning, yeah. Uh teenager, and um, so I was into this computer thing, like I was into like starting from this connection with 56k. Uh then it was like in Germany ISDN, yeah. Then sometimes the the it developed slowly, slowly, slowly. Yeah, so I was into all of this uh cyber and digital stuff, and she told me about this, and she said, Yeah, you can also use it as an in-game currency and blah blah blah. And the first thing she showed me was travel coin, a scam coin, I lost all my money back in 2014. But um, at the same time, you had to uh buy also um Bitcoin to convert and blah blah blah. So the first time then I heard about wallets, about Bitcoin, and um then I said, okay, let's let's go in. So um I bought a couple of bitcoins at this time, and a couple of uh like one or two years or three years, I put like nearly every commission into Bitcoin. Okay, because I said that this woman was like two weeks after this woman was away, but uh thanks her, yeah. I I I recognize it. Um so I have to say uh a lot of times thank you to a woman, right? They every time they help help me in my life steps, yeah. Seems that way. So so um and my content is mainly a lot of uh a lot of times also for women. I support women, I grew up with a strong woman, so I appreciate. Um so uh this time I heard about Bitcoin, but I was classic buy and hold. Okay. Just buy, buy, buy, then put it on, then from like the exchanges, I put it on like hardware wallets the first time and tried a couple of times. Of course, you lose money because you you use the wrong uh address, or I used some online wallets, then I lost like the access and go crazy. Yeah, but that's life. That's the journey. That's the learning. That's the learning, that's the journey. Yes, and uh that's that was the way to um how I start with crypto. Okay, but to be honest, for me, real estate is back to your question real estate versus crypto. Crypto is much easier, okay. Crypto is much easier, crypto is less headache, of course. It's a roller coaster. Yeah, you have to chill. Yeah, if I uh if I if I'm not a cool chilled guy. It will be difficult, I think, because sometimes you can use uh lose 30% in one day, and the next time you can gain the double, or kind of. But for real estate, you have a lot of problems, yeah. Uh with the tenants, and there is the ten and then the tenant, even if you have a management for this, they will also call you. And you want to be a good guy. I if you have a problem, you call me because I'm a people's I'm a people person, yeah. So so they for every problem they call me. And I have like when I look at my phone, I have 10 messages only, and you know how it is. This tenant, the other tenant, I don't like him. He threw the wrong uh trash can into the whole uh wrong trash. Yeah, what the hell? So I have other things to do, but of course, I'm friendly, I'm helpful, they pay every month the rent, so I'm thankful. I tell them, please contact the management. No, I want you to know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. Once you have that contact with someone, you always want your go-to person, right? So coming back to what we were talking about with the the uh so you've said crypto is easier, yeah, but there's it's a roller coaster. Uh real estate might be uh comes with a different set of headaches, but might be more secure long long term, right? Yeah, so you so my next question is because you told me you grew up in a small town in Germany, you didn't have access to like all this financial information and lessons and whatever. So, yeah, how did you learn how to invest, how to manage your money? Because without those two, you couldn't have reached and done all the other stuff you've gotten to, right? Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00

Very good question. So um in this village or in this uh big uh this small village, uh small city, yeah, they were no like I had no access to business people, like to successful people, millionaires or something like this was not possible. So um at this time it was also not so popular to have like uh YouTube videos of people uh teaching you and stuff like this. So and um then the first time I went to Frankfurt, I recognized that the people and this is but this is German mentality. In German, there is one saying, you don't talk about money. So this is a big thing, one of the biggest things in Germany, you can ask the people everything, yeah, even if it goes bright, very private, yeah, but don't ask them how much money they make a month, and don't don't ask them uh what is on their bank account, and don't ask them uh advice to become rich. No, they will not tell you in general, yeah. Okay, so um I and I am a guy in the beginning, or now even now I ask a lot when there are people who know something, and every time one person knows something about a topic more better than you. You know, you can't know everything. So I ask a lot because I want to learn. So, how it is, how this, how it is, and then I get uh the answer don't ask, it's annoying. Too many questions, one question a day, blah blah blah. All of this stuff I heard. So I said, okay, what can I do? And then the next things I came to books, yeah. Um, like this uh podcasts, well, we are not popular at this time, and uh like audiobooks also not so so nice, but later I switched to audiobooks. But at the beginning, I just bought books, books, books, books like um Rich Dead, Poor Dead, yeah, Robert Sharma uh 5am Club, uh the The Art of War.

SPEAKER_03

The the it's like the you know it's funny, Sammy. You uh anyone who's you know been successful, it's the same book list. Everyone talks about the same book list, you know.

SPEAKER_00

It's all ah, art of war, oh this uh money, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is funny and all these books, and then really I I went back home. In the beginning, I I lived um still at my mom's house, and I came home and after the work I was exhausted, but I read, read, read as much as I can. And I like I had a aim like 100 books a year. Yeah, this was my aim, 100 books a year. It in the beginning it was working out. Later, of course, you have more to do in business, then and then a girlfriend comes, and then maybe children come, and then that it's done. Yeah, but when you switch to audiobooks, this was like a hack for me. Yeah, sure. I uh every time I went to the gym, I went to drive the car somewhere. Uh, I always use the time effective and listen to audiobooks in this time. So um I really I I collected all my information. The the books looked like uh like a like a daily journal. I wrote every notes, everything, and um then I took the book every book again and uh wrote because when you write you will remember a little bit better, it's um they say. So I just made my notes for every book, and then I I learned from kind of every book a little bit, and uh of course later with audiobooks and YouTube and uh all this um like educational um possibilities was way easier.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but in the beginning, like I said, the best example is the scripto where you use the wrong address, where you don't know how to to do it, uh you use access because you don't uh uh write down the secret uh phrase in the beginning. Oh no, how to recover the wallet. Oh, without this, it's not possible, blah blah blah. Learning by doing. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

It's a combination of the information that you gathered, uh learning by doing and taking a little bit of a risk. Yes, a little bit, you know, like sending it to the wrong wallet is you know, I don't know, hopefully it arrives, but something, you know, something like that could definitely happen.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And now coming on to icon X, right? Which is, I think, the it's like the centerpiece that connects all the different things that you do. Everything kind of fuel funnels back into you know icon X. And you said you've been a people person from the beginning, which is why going into something, launching something like this makes a lot of sense. So two things. First of all, why don't you tell us what it is, first of all, and number two in all the space everything you've done, I've learned in my experience you can only be successful with people in the sense of I can't get that deal without, for example, having you. Yes, I can't close this without bringing this person on. So your ability to network in the world, you know, there's that famous saying your network is your net worth, is or is a thing. It's a real thing, though. It's a real thing. So yeah, I love it. So, first of all, tell us what it is, and then tell us for people who let's say there's a lot of founders that need to get out there, network, whatever. What are the networking lessons that you've learned that you feel has you know really set you apart?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. So uh most of the successful people they have uh everything, but one thing they don't have time. So it's hard to connect, it's hard to reach out. So I think also, for example, when someone, let's say uh um um talented boy in school, text you hey Khalid, when are you available? I want to invite you for coffee. Yeah, maybe if one guy is texting you, it's it's it will work out. But if like 20, 30, 40, it will not possible anymore. Yeah, and imagine like a billionaire, how many messages they get. Yeah, so this is this is the problem. So the people want to learn, like me in the young years. How is this? How only one question a day. So it's hard to learn from people or to connect. And um then the next idea was okay, when it's hard to connect, then I go to networking events, but realized very fast that on the networking events, 99 persons are like me. They search good guys, uh successful guys who they can network with, and the successful and rich people are with their families or in a nice place like Dubai. So I can't network with anybody there. Sure, sure. So um, yeah, this like I was and I nearly tried every every but it's like learning by doing like every time in my life. So I also with my brother, um, I drove like 400-500 kilometers because they said this is nice networking, and the founder of this and this will be there, and then the founder was playing golf somewhere in Spain. Nice, thank you. I drive 500 kilometers and 500 kilometers back the same day. Don't uh don't want to lose time. So um that's that's the crazy part. So it's hard to network. And my idea was like with ICANNX, my idea was it's easier when you combine it online. So when they when you catch these people online, or when these people can give advices online, or maybe if they if you can win them for like a live stream um that you record a record, or maybe um you can do something together, like we do right right now to to give value. Some maybe 99% is for one person who watch it useless, but one person, one thing, uh, one question you ask, for example, was very helpful, and um even then it's a value. Yeah, then I'm sorry for the 99%, but happy that you get one person at least something. And I always try to um make people better, it makes it makes fun because I know where I come from, and I if I had someone who just would give me one person a day, I would to make me better one person a day, I would be very happy about it. So I love to help. I it's my I'm Libra, you know. I I like to be balanced, I like a good vibe, I like um happiness. That's the reason why I love Dubai, for example, because you get all of this in Dubai and in Germany, every day is rainy, great days, people not friendly. Yeah, when you go to, for example, to get a cup of coffee, the people are like, Hallo, what do you want? Okay, and that's it. So this is fake friendly because they are arguing about politics, they argue about taxes. You need it's uh we are reaching a level, it's like the highest tax percentage in Germany ever. Only Belgium is in front of us. We are paying nearly I think 62.5% approximately like this. Unbelievable. Yes. So most of the year you're paying you're um working for the government, and what you get instead high crime rate, nearly on also the highest crime rate in whole world in the whole world, like um weak politics, everything getting more expensive, and salaries are staying on the same level since years. So you're not getting anything. When you get when you would get the same like in Dubai, where you where you're getting support, where you're getting uh everything is nice, where you where you're getting help and uh nice nice restaurants, nice weather, the government is caring about the people. Yeah. Um if you get something like this, I might be okay with paying so uh high taxes. Because I think the value is fair. I feel safe, I feel happy, I feel good, nice people around me, that's that's the price. But if I don't if I get don't get anything and only negativity from day to day and all the people you are surrounded with, even in a nice restaurant, even somewhere, then it's then it's not a fair deal. Yeah, it's not a fair deal. So um, but back to your question. You you are what was it again?

SPEAKER_03

Sorry. Uh I was we were uh talking about how uh by icon first of all by icon X. So you explained what's the reason you know you built it in the way you have, so people have access online to get the advice that you didn't have. Yes. The next question, the next part of the question was about networking and how do you network successfully because there is an art to it. Yes, there really there really is an art to do it. Not everyone can, and there are different levels across each person.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So uh in ICANNX, I want to combine two parts. The one part is like um the academy, but this is like this starts right now, slowly. It's not there right now. Okay, this is the part where I want to help people, where people who have zero knowledge can come, like me a couple of years ago, can come and learn step by step by step. For example, also a lot of people ask me about trading, yeah. But how much time I need to invest to teach every person individually. Yeah, sure. And my brother, my brother is into trading a lot, he loves it. So, and we are talking uh often about it. But the problem is that in this, um, that you also get a lot of like expensive courses, you don't get really value of it. There are a lot of people who just want to make money out of this people who don't know a lot. This is the problem I see. Yeah, and I was also thinking about to um to include something with trading, but it's very difficult because people will directly get a think, oh, be careful, red flag. Maybe someone would just want to uh sell me an expensive course. But um, so hopefully this will be in the next steps because I also personally love trading, but uh hopefully we can um find a nice way to solve this or to get to give it in a or to do to show it in a nice way without taking additional money, for example, or something like this, that they don't have to be afraid losing money in uh in this educational process. But um yeah, to to to help people. This is really what I want to do because I love it. And I like in the beginning, you named all this um things I do or I'm into it, and it's all things I love because I only do what I love. Years before in this real estate on my journey, often I didn't like what I do right now because I thought, for example, also nah the landlord is maybe right, but I have to fight for the rights of the customer. So often there was a situation I I didn't like it, or now I have to try uh travel to I don't know a city where I'm not into it and the kids are sick at home, but I don't I can't uh let the customer there alone because they wanted I come and blah blah blah. So it's it's difficult, and um, so I am developed is also like a journey from year to year, and now I'm only doing things I really love, and I could do the whole day and the whole night. Yeah, and um I think this is like uh the key to success for a lot of people, not for all, but a lot of people that you have to do what you love. And um, yeah, this is the this is the reason why I want to develop and start this academy more and more.

SPEAKER_03

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00

But right now the focus is on network, yeah, exactly. Yeah, right connecting, connecting people from different uh industries, and um this on a very simple way.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah but it's not just about sorry to interrupt you, Sanya. It's not just about bringing the people together. It's not uh, you know, I'll because I I'm part of a I'm an ambassador for a community here for all founders and stuff, and I've been to all the networking events that I'm sure you you have been to. So I've seen like I've tasted the boringness, the like hi, the fake hellos, whatever. When it comes to a um when it comes to a community though, the being selective of who you bring in really matters, and not only that, it's not about bringing people together, it's about how can I bring people together and how can I make it easier or help you start making those connections in that space because that's the real sauce.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Uh very good question. I see it the way if you meet successful people, and you can you can see they always have no time, so they are not into like, can you come? I have a nice connection, but they know okay, I have to be there. It's like dating. I always compare business to dating. You go to a bar, you meet a nice man or a nice lady, you have to hello, I'm Sammy, I'm 35 years old, I come from here. This is my business. What are you doing? Ah, nice hobbies, blah blah blah. Yeah, so it's always the same in this case, and in business also, and often you are not interested in in this, not so. Um, and it's it's like um developing from time to time, like a relationship, like you date and then you go into a relationship, but you don't know the other person so good, but uh from months to months to months, it will be different, it will change. So, in this case, I try to focus only on the business part, keep the personal things beside at the beginning. And if there's a match, for example, real estate agent selling expensive villas in Mallorca, Spain. I offer I sell uh expensive villas in uh Spain. There's another like um uh couple they are into marketing, they made they sold their company, they have a lot of money, they want to buy an expensive villa in Mallorca. So expensive villa sell, expensive villa buy, match. Yeah, so I connect them directly um uh through AI, but it's very simple because I keep all the personal stuff away, and then you just say what are you offering or what are you searching? Very no other information, not like uh um like a business network uh or social media profile where you have one million information, you have to search it. No, what is your and then if you are into more business, you can create more profiles or you can just put or focus on one thing to be in the beginning. Yeah, yeah. But so it's very easy. Sell uh villas in uh Mallorca, want to buy a villa in Mallorca, or offer lawyer uh services in Dubai, search lawyer services in Dubai notary, blah blah blah. So and then you can then you connect just because the the focus is on business, and then you have the same match, and then you can see if they matching together, if they just have only a call, yeah, just only WhatsApp. And um no it depends on the business, but normally when I, for example, only lead need the last time I needed a translation service. Yeah, I'm I'm cool with it when I just uh send it over, thanks, thanks my guy, and uh pay the money and uh 30 minutes later I have a translation. So there is at this point, there is not really a need to know something more about this person. It would be nice, but this person has no time, I have no time. Gotcha. If it is more um specific, like and uh more money involved, like buying real estate, then for or or creating a company or getting advice or something like this, I always want to know who I am dealing with. Yeah, it's important because it's about uh money, but if I just have to pay $100, I'm cool with it. Yeah, here WhatsApp, simple, easy, pay WhatsApp here. This document, please translate, da da da, done. Yeah, so and this is like the focus, and this is why the business people like or love it because they don't lose money and they make business with like zero efforts, yeah. They don't have to fill out a new social media profile, yeah, yeah. Uploading the pictures, bio, blah, blah, blah. It's the people has no m no time. Yeah, yeah. And then it's another another task for the assistant. The assistant could also make money-making tasks. Yeah, so um it's it's for them really easy, like this. Yeah, just focus, name, company. You have can also add the website when you have more and want to have more information. I can visit a website or social media profiles, everything is linked. I offer this, and or I search this, and then the AI is directly matching. Gotcha. Then you get like a like an inbox message. You can check the inbox messages, ignore, accept, or also I want to go for, and then you can directly match. So I like reaching out.

SPEAKER_03

So you're trying to remove all the like friction and the fluff, just do it purely on a uh from at least level one to be a purely business relationship, like oh, I need this, you do that, great, let's have a conversation. And then the personal side can develop obviously individually over time and obviously in bigger deals that are more complex. Yeah, the personal side is gonna be a lot more a top mind at the beginning. Yeah, but this is where the social media side comes in, right? So your presence, you have a big presence on social media, and social media from my your social media from my perspective is where you because if I just looked at all the things you do individually, I wouldn't see like how is everything like linked? Like, where does everything put, what's everything pushing to? And then your social media or your personal brand is where I get my answer, you know, because that's where on Instagram I see all the elements of what we've talked about, you know, so far till today. So, where did the social media side come into in this last you know, journey that you've had to get to the stage? And how much fuel did that really put on the fire?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I think for me, the social media profile or the social media presence is like everything. Because, like I told you before, in a world where business people or even normal people, they have also a lot of tasks, they have to care about your family, maybe hopefully not, but a sick family member, and so maybe learning something, school, work, whatever. So, also the not the CEOs, also the normal, like normal uh humans, they don't have a lot of time. So, um, how can they know a person? How can they see a person? And um, for me, like the social media, I always want to be real. When I'm angry, I'm angry. When I'm happy, I'm happy and showing this. So um, when the government in Germany is uh raising the tax, I'm angry and making a post. When I have a good day and eat nice in Dubai, I make a post. Yeah, so I the good and bad. Yes, the good and bad. So I think it's very important to be real and uh don't fake something. If you are not traveling, don't make AI travel pictures, for example. Or don't when you are not staying in this hotel, don't go to the hotel and make a picture. Yeah, because people will know. Maybe not. At the beginning, maybe not in the first picture, but at one point, at some point, they will find out, and then you lose everything. So, um and in a world where the people don't have time to connect uh or to learn about a person, social media is the way to learn about a person. Sometimes I get messages, and that's very nice, and that's a good answer. They text me, I don't know you personally, but I have the feeling I know you since two years personally. Kind of. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're sharing, I'm laughing with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see you're real. I follow and often the people are when they like you, they follow you on different channels. Like on TikTok, I'm more private. On business, uh in Instagram is more business, then are different different uh platforms as well. So the people get a feeling that they know you or they can imagine how you are as a person. Yeah. And I have to tell you, I I'm the same. When I have to when I do business and I see um a person who has nothing to hide and show the profile picture, uh nice pictures of the person. I I I um creating more trust to this person. Way, way, way more trust. As when I have an um uh empty profile and no profile picture and everything. For example, often people text me when I I say in social media, for example, I I bought like I don't know 20 mystery boxes as like just for fun with with my kids, and we open it and the nice things they can keep, and the other things we sell, yeah, and then we we uh donate this money, for example. Then I say, Okay, I don't have time, but which person wants to um I send the things to you and you can sell it, you can keep like 30%, the um rest of it we will donate. Yeah, you and uh community can decide, for example. And in this case, I get also messages from people with no no profile picture and no name, a fake name, user 345678. I'm not working with them, I'm not sending them the stuff because I think uh I sending them the stuff and they will block me. But the person who has like the real name, name one, name two, profile picture, 2030 pictures, nothing to hide, also three, four other uh profiles, I'm cool with it. Without knowing the person, I sent the person like two two, three thousand euro or like dollar in in goods to sell it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They could, of course, I could get scammed. How often does happen? Zero times. How often this would happen when I send it to user three, four, five, six, maybe ten of ten. Yeah, so this is yeah, for me, it's very important. I can I can understand everybody. I can understand the people who say I want my privacy, I don't share, I don't uh I don't have to show my whole life. I respect this and I can understand. But for me, I I and I don't want to ask please send me your passport, copy, and blah blah. This uh this is not me. So I like this people's business. So I I also often give them trust before they even trust me, for example. So um, in this case, I I work like this and it always worked, yeah. So and and for for the other person as well, they say, I saw a lot of people, but I trust you. I don't know why, but I have the feeling.

SPEAKER_03

So and I and that's what you want. Yes, I want people you want people to come to your profile and do two things relate to you, yes, and then trust you. Yes, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and I show like I I I hide nothing, I show everything, maybe sometimes too much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my girlfriend is the same. She also she put pressure on me because she also posts when we are fighting, yeah. And then I get 20 messages, don't make her cry, don't make her cry. Yeah, it's the same for her. Yeah, she put pressure on me, but uh it's effective. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Maybe people I can understand when people say it's too much. Yeah, keep your privacy, keep do this. But I like I like it also. Yeah, I like to show I also try always to reply to people. I can't reply to all, but I try always to go from the messages, also this hidden messages, yeah, maybe scam messages, and when there's a person with the real name and the profile picture, I answer to them. Yeah, yeah. Because they give me the most, what is the most valuable the time. Yeah, they watch, they comment, they like. So, and I want to give at least a little bit back. Sure. And if it is a message and say thank you for your time, yeah, yeah, and appreciate your words. It costs nothing, only uh like 10 seconds. You can do it while you are uh like I don't know, watching Netflix, maybe the same time, uh, or some eating something, and you can just take your time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I also want to do it personally because I know people would just give into the assistant and she uh text spec. But sometimes I also make a short voice.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then the people are very happy. Of course, yeah, nothing's better than that, right?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I guess that's how first of all it's interesting how you look at your how you look at social media in the sense of I know this is what it is, but for some reason the way you explained it just like resonated with me of like it's your way to connect with people without actually talking to them, you know. So like to trust you to be relatable and so on. Not only that is uh, you know, the these little things that you're doing of uh replying to messages, giving back to the community. That's how you build community. It's a dialogue, it's not Sami talking to me, it's khala than Sami having a conversation through media, through WhatsApp, through YouTube videos, you know, whatever that engagement, you know, channel might look like. Yes. And to round off our conversation for today, Sami, um, I obviously have to touch on the trading aspect. You mentioned, you know, you're you're a trader and your brother, you know, is a trader uh as a trader as well.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So I'm I'm very new to the trading game. I made my mistakes already once upon a time, you know, but now I'm trying to come back in the right way and like paper trading, making lessons and whatever.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

What I've realized with um trading is first of all, everyone gives you a different answer, everyone has a different strategy, everyone has a different risk appetite. Trading, I've learned from the conversations I've had in my experience so far. It's very personal, it's a very personal thing to you. And I I know to get to a stage where you can trade well and be profitable, you will need help along that way. But you will, I think, get to a point that you'll stop listening to other people and you start trusting what you've you know, what you've done. So could you walk me through, maybe give us a snapshot of what your trading journey has looked like and what are the lessons that you maybe or mistakes that you made that could help, you know, a lot of people looking to enter the space now.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. The my trading journey, because uh like before when I invested in real estate, it's for example is for sure buy and hold. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In Germany, they even text you if you buy a real estate and flip it, they text you like high 25%. What this is your profit?

SPEAKER_03

And and that's your profit. Is it locked in like that? Let's say I let's say I buy, do I have a time frame that I'm not allowed to sell it for before that 25% kicks in? Or 10 years. Oh, yes, okay.

SPEAKER_00

If you keep it for 10 years, you can sell it with more tax. Yeah, of course. In most cases, they get a nice offer, they want to sell. Anyway, yeah, okay, interesting to know. Yeah, and then what is your profit? Maybe if you have a nice profit, it's 25%. And then you give this exactly 25 profit to the government. Thank you for nothing. Yeah, so um in this case, like flipping or like buy and selling is not working in in Germany or like for me in real estate. So I looked into crypto. Crypto, I was always always like uh buy and hold because I had this mindset and I don't want to have this stress. And at this time when I started with this crypto, there were not a lot of exchanges, yeah. And um, so it was not so easy. My first trading, I stepped into with all this GameStop hype. Oh, GameStop, okay, yeah. GameStop came. I did my trades, you win, and suddenly you think this is the best feeling in the world. Of course, yeah, it's so easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, everything I know before this is the best feeling, yeah. Dopamine kicks, so it was uh very nice. It was a nice time, it's an exciting time. You do uh you are the unit of other people, you are one big team, you're fighting against the the rich ones, and um, you are doing your part, and you're making all money, so it's a dream, yeah. It's a dream. You have yeah, yeah. You went with your friends and with a lot of other people, you all make money, and uh the rich pays, like Robin Hood style, yeah. But of course, this advent and for me it it worked out perfectly. But like always in the beginning, you are a little bit afraid, you're not going in with a lot of money, yeah. So maybe a couple of thousandths profit, but not like real big money. Yeah, yeah. So um then you reinvest, then you make maybe another 500-600 euro. And then in the beginning, I like I sold, I said, okay, another 500. Wow, it's working again. But then you uh after three, four hours you said, okay, if I could hold it, it would be like uh 2k right now, yeah. For example, or like maybe 1.5, yeah. I had another 1000. So in the beginning it was like only like very amateur style with uh using like broker apps and selling stocks. Sure, sure. And of course, me as a gamer, I loved GameStop, so it was nice. But um then I looked what else, which uh which other company then this uh journey was an at an end, and uh I looked at um the stock exchange and thought what what other company I like, and then I thought, yeah, every company I like I want to hold, I don't want to play with them, kind of. Yeah, and it's and it's very hard to time the market because GameStop was very special. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, this is not uh not the real world, so you have to see what can you make, maybe one percent, two percent. Um and at this point I didn't know about any leverage um possibilities in in trading. So I decided real quick the stocks like classic companies is not for me. So then I thought, okay, but I have a nice sense for crypto. Yeah, so uh, and of course, like all the years, all the crypto were growing, growing, growing, growing, growing. And I thought, what if I just wait on like a panic sell, if they drop 10%, and then if you look watch historically, in the next uh one two weeks they grow uh again, so you it's like a 30% profit, um, kind of, yeah. So uh on a very amateur level uh way of thinking. So um I started with this, and in the most cases, and only didn't uh trade daily, I only trade when there's like a big lose, like a big lost in the crypto market, they lost money, and then I bought, then I waited because I don't care if it is one day, one week. I'm a long uh long holder, yeah. Yeah, so diamond hands, yeah. So um I waited, and then if it comes to back to the normal level, I waited if I can maybe go higher, and then if not, okay, I'll take this. So um, but also in this case, when you uh how much money you have to invest to get to get to make really big money or to make a living out of it, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it's difficult with your own money. So, and then um my brother came to me. Uh this he was the reason for this, and he told me about uh the first time about his leverage. Yeah, and um he said, uh, I use other people's money, and there are like uh the you are a retail trader, and uh uh you use your own money, so you can only use and you lose your own money also. Yes, true, you risk to lose your own money. Yeah, so what about if you go into a leverage where you can use other people's money? There are different opportunities, you can make, for example, challenges, you can prove that you that you know what you are doing, and then you have uh this money, and then you will have a partner. And for me, I I like this partner thing. I like to work with people, sure. I'm a people's guy. Yeah, yeah. So for me, I can I can have a team, but I don't have to to ask for approval. Like I don't I want to feel like the boss. Yeah, I I want to be the entrepreneur, I want to be the business owner, I want to make my own decisions, I buy and I sell. I don't want to ask for permission. And uh all of this is possible, all of this you can get. So he showed me, and I really loved it. I thought, okay, forget real estate, forget real estate, all this headache, all this struggle. This is an easy way and a very nice way to make money. Of course, it's risky, but if you use like other people's money, it's not so risky. Like the it's you have you have a very good risk that you personally take. And um, but I I would not have a problem to take risks because I'm a risky guy.

SPEAKER_03

Sure, yeah, yeah, but you you personally, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's my personality, but he is completely the opposite. Oh, okay. He's not into real uh real estate, he's he buys the save, save, save stocks. Yeah, and then I was surprised with this trading, but then I understand okay, other people's money, so he is not uh using or investing a lot of his own money, he used like partner, and of course they get a share of the uh revenue, but at the end it's the perfect way for him. And uh I thought, okay, for me it's also very nice. And um, I tried it. I did also what I love crypto. Yeah, I only focus on crypto and um and uh went uh went my way with this. So and um it worked out, but I'm not like this second trader, the person who's always on the computer. I like swing, yes, yes, like swing, yeah. Yeah, I I I like to be chilled else in this. Yeah, I want to um I I watch the crypto market daily, and if I see okay, now is a nice percentage, step in. Yeah, yeah. So um of course it's you have to be lucky, of course, that's part of it. But uh but normally, like very simple, when there's a big loose, a big gap in uh in the market, of course the next one, two, three, four days it will gain. Like we have a saying in Germany after every rain comes the sun. Yeah, so and I believe in this as well. Yeah, so after every rain and uh storm, yeah, there will be the sun, and you just have to find the right timing. Yeah, and you have to buy before the sun shine uh shows up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. True, true, true. Yeah, and I I do it like this. My brother is like he is doing it daily, yeah, and uh he's uh successful in it. But for me, because I I I want to make my content, I want to make also this other things like I can X, I can't lose so much time, yeah. And uh for me it's like the best way to see it a little bit on like midterm, sure, yeah. Yeah, not daily, like once a week. Yeah, weekly, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. And I think you know the point you mentioned of I love the example of you and your brother. It shows it just shows two different trading personalities, appetites, approaches, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, and you know, to your point on uh leverage, because I've also learned the the the hard way. So I learned leverage way too fast, used it, got liquidated, but it's fine. You know, with like small money, but it's it's the lessons you learn, right? Yeah, and you know, I think it's very important what I've learned so far is to understand what type of risk appetite you have as a person, how greedy are you? Are you willing to risk 8% for 30? Okay, you never know, you know what I'm saying? I would go for it. I know you wouldn't but not you know to your point, you know, not everyone would, but like like you said, you can only a common thing throughout this whole conversation, Sami, has been learn by doing. When it comes to trading, obviously be very careful with how you learn by doing, you know, try to take, I would say, you know, I from my experience, my advice would be learn on demo accounts, make all the mistakes you want, and then before you start putting real money in, because I started with real money and I lost real money. Me too. Me too. So I learned the hard way, and that's you know what I would advise people. I'm not a trader, yeah. That's my ad my advice from the small trading experience that I have, you know, so far.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I would advise the same way, Khalid. I would uh advise the same way. I I'm like you, yeah. I said I thought when I trade, I want to make real money, but uh things uh thanks to me, and I I thought about it and I was the same like you. I said, okay, I will uh use small money for the beginning. Of course, I lost a couple of times, nearly every time. Yeah, so I said I said, okay, for me, this like daily or seconds of trading, it will not work because maybe I'm too creedy for this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is fair, yeah. Yeah, so I want to go for the chilled way, and uh, this worked out the best then 100%.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, for sure. Uh Sammy man, I wanted to say thank you so much for coming on the podcast today, man. This was such a fun conversation. I love the energy that you brought the stories. Um, I think there's so many different elements that people can take away from this conversation about how to think about trading, investing. You know, the we touched on the real estate crypto debate, that's a very popular one that everyone will give you a different answer on. We talked about the risk appetized, we talked about the importance of social media as your brand to fit you know all these financial things that vehicles that you do, you know, under it. So for anyone looking to trade, uh make become a content creator, build relationships, network, I think there's so much they can take away from this episode. So I wanted to just say thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you, thank you, Khalid. Thank you so much to everyone listening. Guys, thank you so much. Please make sure, uh guys, thank you so much for listening, and we will see you on the next episode. Take care. Yeah, perfect.

SPEAKER_01

Awesome job, man. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you guys for joining us on another episode of the Not Just Money Podcast. If you haven't already, I'd like to invite you to subscribe to our YouTube channel and follow us on socials to continue watching industry leader talk about the mindset, tools, strategies, and share the money truths that no one teaches you. And remember, guys, when it comes to money, it's not about flex, it's about freedom.