Helping Students Read the World | History Matters Podcast

Social studies is an essential component of literacy, because it allows students to build the knowledge and vocabulary they’ll need to comprehend increasingly complex texts. In this episode, host Kyair Butts is joined by guest Melissa Loftus, a former teacher, curriculum developer, and co-host of the Melissa & Lori Love Literacy podcast. She explains why phonics alone is essential but not enough, and that even very young children can “read to learn” through content-rich children’s books and read-alouds of more complex texts. 

“What they know about the world is going to help them comprehend what they read,” Melissa says. “Social studies is learning about the world. It's the exact knowledge, vocabulary that complex texts are going to assume that they know.”

Reading comprehension depends not only on decoding words but also on knowing enough about the world to make sense of what authors assume readers already understand. Effective literacy instruction balances foundational reading skills with opportunities to build knowledge through rich content. Social studies content is especially potent, because it builds vocabulary, knowledge, and familiarity with important information and ideas, and also nurtures students' natural curiosity about the world. Research shows that spending more time on social studies accelerates literacy more than extra time in English language arts. 

Melissa compares the role of content knowledge in reading with being in a familiar environment. Walking through your hometown, you can notice details, ask questions, and pick up on nuances. In a completely unfamiliar place, your brain is working hard just to get from point A to point B. She and Kyair discuss how history, geography, and civics also build confidence, encourage participation, and help create more equitable learning opportunities by giving all students access to shared knowledge. They conclude that history should not be sacrificed due to scheduling pressures, but instead integrated throughout the school day, helping students become stronger readers, informed citizens, and lifelong learners.

This podcast is produced by Knowledge Matters on behalf of the History Matters Campaign. Follow Knowledge Matters on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter/X. Search #historymatters to join the conversation.

Production by Tressa Versteeg. Original music and sound engineering by Aidan Shea.

Resources:

• Adam Tyner and Sarah Kabourek. Social Studies Instruction and Reading Comprehension: Evidence from the Early Childhood Longitudinal Study. Washington D.C.: Thomas B. Fordham Institute (September 2020).
• Loftus, Melissa, and Lori Sappington. The Literacy 50–A Q&A Handbook for Teachers: Real-World Answers to Questions About Reading That Keep You Up at Night. Scholastic Teaching Solutions, 2024.
• Melissa & Lori Love Literacy Podcast

Transcript

Melissa Loftus

What they know about the world is going to help them comprehend what they read. Social studies is learning about the world. It's the exact knowledge, vocabulary that complex texts are going to assume that they know. So this is the place for them to learn thoseーthat content. 

Kristen McQuillan

Welcome to Season 2 of the History Matters Podcast. I’m Dr. Kristen McQuillan, Executive Director of Knowledge Matters. This season our hosts, Kyair Butts, Barbara Davidson, and Ebony McKiver, along with their guests, will tell the story of how elementary history instruction serves both literacy and civic goals. 

Kyair Butts

Hi, I’m Kyair Butts, one of the hosts for the History Matters Podcast. I’m a Baltimore City School teacher, a former teacher of the year, and a contributor to Knowledge Matters. 

I talked with Melissa Loftus. She co-hosts of the popular podcast Melissa & Lori Love Literacy and co-author of The Literacy 50: A Q&A Handbook for Teachers. She’s a former ELA teacher and reading specialist and now works to bring research-based reading and writing practices to educators. 

During our conversation, Melissa and I discussed the critical role of content knowledge in student comprehension. And how kids need to know “stuff” to become better readers and stay curious about the world. I think you’ll enjoy this discussion. 

Kyair Butts 

So we're here today to talk a little bit about history instruction in the elementary grades. But I do want to spend some time connecting the dots for our listeners. When we talk about history, geography, civics, and the elementary grades, we're also talking about content knowledge. And I always like to kind of qualify that for listeners out there rightーnot to teacher-splainーbut content is really just the stuff that our kids are gonna learn. 

So can you, Melissa, just talk a little bit about what exactly does the research say about the connection between content knowledge and this very technical term, “stuff," and reading comprehension?

Melissa Loftus

Stuff is a great term. I love that. You have to know stuff. But no, I mean, yeah, Kyair, the research is pretty clear that knowledge matters for comprehension. I don't think that is really a contested finding in any way. I mean, you and I both know like, decoding accurately matters, right? There's a lot that goes into that and we'll probably touch on it along the way here. But you know, so does knowing about the topic.  Just like what students know about the world is going to shape how well they comprehend a text about some stuff about the world, right? Like you have to know about it. 

Kyair Butts

Thousand percent. But I think that when it comes to thinking about a school building and decision making, I would love us to just have this conversation andーbecause you hit on it about decoding and those foundational skills. So when schools are making decisionsーand sometimes unfortunately, it's about what content to decrease or even cutーhow can educators just sort of balance foundational reading skills with also building meaningful content knowledge? I know sometimes it also gets into scheduling. But Melissa, where is the balance in a world with finite time?

Melissa Loftus 

Yeah. Well, you're getting to that. Let me just like, hit home the balance though. I think that's one thing to just hit home because, you know, the science of reading has like, been “a thing” lately. You know, it's been something on everyone's mind and everyone's trying to make sure everything lines up with the science of reading. But that often gets mistranslated into teaching phonics and sometimes going overboard, as we often do in education. It's like, well if this one thing is really important, then like that's what we need to do. 

So I just want to like caution anyone out there who might still be on that train of thought of like: well, if the science of reading is really important and I'm misinterpreting that to mean just phonicsーlet me clear that up that it's a misinterpretation of just phonicsー then, you know, some schedules are looking much more like, okay, well, then let's do 60, 90 minutes of phonics instruction. Like let's make that the block. And that is not what anyone is arguing for.

I think everyone would say we have to keep that instruction tight so that it's maybe 30 minutes. So that you have room for this content instruction, even in the youngest grades. And I getーI think that is another misconception. There's even like. that saying, right? Like we learn to read in the younger grades and then they read to learn. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Like we have to make sure, even in the youngest gradesーhonestly, even before they get to school that they are reading to learn. And I know some people are probably sitting there thinking: But they don't know how to read yet. And that is where something really important comes in which is read-alouds. So even in those youngest grades, if students are not able to read on their own yet, one of the best things teachers can do is read aloud. And those children's books are chock full of great vocabulary, great content about the world, if you find good ones, right. Like, so, you know, it is huge for kids to have that experience and not wait. 

And again, I get where that saying comes fromーlearning to read and then reading to learn. But at the same time, again, it gets misinterpreted. We tend to go overboard in education. And it'sーpeople say: Okay, well, they don't need to like, read anything to learn until after third grade or after second grade. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. They need all of that vocabulary and that content to be able to read those harder texts once they get to third and fourth grade. So they're not competing priorities, right? The goal isn't: do we teach phonics or knowledge, right? But strong literacy instruction includes both.  

Kyair Butts

Melissa, how is our thinking sort of shifted over the years when it comes to content knowledge and how we teach kids to read?

Melissa Loftus 

You know, one thing that I think we forget is just how much harder the texts get over the years. I mean, that is like the biggest thing that changes. And that text, you know, again, like can be really difficult for different reasons, right? This one could be difficult for one student and not another because one kid knows a lot about that content. So it's not as difficult for them, right? Or it could just be a really tough text because it's about something they've all never heard of, or because the sentence structure is really tough or, you know, itーthere's various reasons why any one text could be difficult for each student. 

And that is what we didn't pay enough attention to was like, what is in this text that's going to make it hard for my students? And that includes, you know, you said content knowledge, that includes the knowledge that they are assumed to bring, right, to that text. 

Because authors don't writeーespecially as texts get harder over the years. There's  a lot of what the author writes is just like, I'm assuming that the reader knows something about this and they are bringing something to this text to make sense of it. 

So we as teachers have to go: Wait a second, if the author is assuming that they know something about this, and I know my students don't, what do I need to do to help them make sense of this? How do I look at the text and think: Okay, they're still gonna find the main idea here, but the reason they're finding the main idea is because it's gonna actually help them make sense of this text and learn something from it and take something away that's gonna add to their knowledgeーright, their little like spider web of knowledge in their brainーthey're gonna like, add to it. So that when they come to another text they have that knowledge that they learned from this text. 

Kyair Butts

So I want to talk a little bit about in what ways can social studies content and that knowledge actually make kids better readers and writers?  

Melissa Loftus

So, like, if we go back to the one of the very first things I said, right? It was like, what they know about the world is going to help them comprehend what they read. Social studies is learning about the world. It's the exact knowledge, vocabulary that complex texts are going to assume that they know. So this is the place for them to learn thoseーthat content. And itーit gives them a reason to like, want to read more closely and think more deeply about what they're reading. 

And I'll add, there is research behind it. I know Fordham Institute has some research about specifically this. That richer social studies instruction was actually linked to stronger reading comprehension growth. So, you know, itーagain, it builds that vocabulary, it builds that general knowledge, right? 

And you're just making me think too about like, this idea of sometimes we think of someーOkay, sometimes I think of my social studies classes from when I was young. I'll just put it on myself. And I felt like it was a lot of like, memorizing things. Like, when did this happen?  

But you know, when you really think about it, it's much more about like, your kids probably have such a  deeper understanding ofーso what if they can't tell you the year that it happened, right? But they get it, right? They get what it was like, what happened, like, what was going on at that time because they're reading this text and they're making sense of it and it'sーit's something that's sticking. It's sticking for them, right?

Kyair Butts

Absolutely. Absolutely. So if people might be wondering to themselves, okay, so we're learning the history, we're learning geography, civics, culture. How does that learning actually set our kids up to tackle harder text down the road?

Melissa Loftus

Yeah, we've mentioned a few things already. I mean, vocabulary is one.  Every social studies text, every social studies unit is just gonna have so many wordーI mean, even just thinking aboutーand they're not just like, tough words you'll never see again. But you know, words like democracy and migration and conflict. And you know, these words that like, are gonna come up again and again and again even in you know, different, totally different unrelated things, but still coming back to that idea of conflict or an idea of migration in a totally different way, right? Like these ideas that are built in social studies they are soーlike, I keep saying it, but it's like, it is so foundational to what kids know about the world that it is just building their knowledge for making sense of those texts. 

And we mentioned it before too, like authors aren't gonna explain that as the texts get harder. They're not gonna explain to you that like, yeah, social studies texts when you're first learning what a migrationーwhat migration means, sure, they're gonna explain it. Later down the road, they're gonna expect you to know what it is already. You know, so like again, they're gonna expect you to bring that knowledge to the texts. 

And I like to think about it as like, kind of like you're walking around a neighborhood. And you know if like, you're in a brand new neighborhood, like you know, I go to like New York City. I've never been there. I am like, completely overwhelmed. And my brain just goes  to like: Get to where you need to go, right? Like get to the place you need to go. 

And that's kind of where kids are when they don't know anything about what they're reading, right? It's just like, okay, whatーmy teacher wants me to what? Write this answer to this question? Let me let me find that and get that answer written down. 

But you know, if you're in your own neighborhood, you already know where you're going. You don't even have to think about it, you know, just walking around the block. That's when you can like pause and notice,  oh, like I wonder what my neighbor's doing today. I wonder what's going on over there? Oh, this tree got cut down. You know, like you start noticing all the things!

That's what can happen when like, a kid knows something already about that topic they're coming to. So if they're bringing all that from social studies about the world to this text, they can stop and really think about what's going on in that text versus just like, let me get to the end, do whatever my teacher asked me to do, and get out of here.

Kyair Butts

Well that to me also comes down to how important the speaking and listening skills are. Cause knowledge is a party. And when students don't have the knowledge, it's as if it's a prom or whatever your special thing was, and you didn't get the invitation and nobody asked you. And it hurts as a student, right? 

So now there's a whole other conversation. So now there's a whole other conversation about SEL and safety in the classroom. And do I even want to participate and take academic risks? But I feel like when we integrate  the content and the skills and students continue to build this knowledge, well Melissa, I want to take the academic risk. I feel safe because I got an invitation to the knowledge party and I want to show up and I also want to show out. And I think that there's a role for that, right, in all the history and the geography classes is the more that I can learn, the more that I can demonstrate this, I wanna take more academic risks, you know. 

Now there's another piece, you know, to talk about in general about just like, this this connection between literacy and social studies. Why do you think that social studies maybe flies under the radar of the reading class um when we're just talking about reading instruction?  

Melissa Loftus

Such a good question. I think, you know, we tend to think in our silos. So it's like: Oh that is an ELA test or a literacy test. So that falls to the ELA literacy teacher. I think that is a silly answer, but it is often true, right, that we live in our little silos.  

But I know that another big issue, especially inーnow in the younger grades, one of the bigger issues is time and the time pressure and the scheduling. And what's the first thing that always ends up getting cut out of the elementary teachers' schedule is their science and social studies time. 

And I thinkーthink it comes back to like maybe looking at those ways of integrating it a bit more so it doesn't feel like a separate time. But also just thinking about how, you know, you can doーmake sure that you do get it in there and not just treat it like, something that's optional because that social studies content, science content is going to help just as much as another ten minutes of phonics time.

Kyair Butts

So before I do completely let you go, I just want to think about um a big wish. [laughs] So just thinking about your big wish or just big idea in general that you want to leave us with, as far as teaching, reading, and building knowledgeーor maybe something that you just wish more elementary educators understood.

Melissa Loftus

I think continuing to think through like how can weーhow do we continue to keep kids’ natural curiosity going so that the texts are meaningful for them, right? That meaningful content in that text, they want to explore it. What's the thing that's gonna get them to want to learn more about this topic to like, fuel that curiosity?

I know like, I hear that so much about like, we squash the curiosity in kids. And it's like how can we keep that going? Cause this is the place to do it, right? In this content, learning about your world. This is the place to get kids to keep wanting to learn more. 

And I think, you know, I mean, equity is another big like, conversation. And this is part of it, right? Like we all know that every student that walks in your classroom is gonna come with different experiences into your classroom. And that's just the way it's going to be. But like building these likeーthat background for students, building this knowledge for all of your students is going to help level the playing field for sure. Not just in reading, but like in life, right? Like in the world we live in today, knowing what's happening in the world is just huge.

That, that is my biggest wish is just like, keep that curiosity going and like finding ways again to like integrate reading throughout your day, integrate the social studies topics and conversations throughout your day. And not just, you know, making it one time of day where that happens, but like how do we bring it all together?

Kyair Butts

To learn more about Melissa’s work, you can visit the Melissa & Lori Love Literacy Podcast, or check out her book, which are linked in her show notes. 

Kristen McQuillan 

This podcast is produced by Knowledge Matters. You can learn more about our work at www.knowledgematters.org.

To catch all of the History Matters Podcast, make sure you subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening.