Episode 22: Fatherhood in a Homeless Shelter

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Sticky Notes:

• Just because someone doesn't have a bed doesn't mean they don't have dreams, a family, or a desire to see them fulfilled. God has bigger dreams for each person struggling with homelessness; they have the same desires you have and need somebody to foster those desires and bring them to Christ.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Welcome to the Homeward Podcast, the show where we illuminate the human stories behind homelessness, redefine what home truly means through real voices, honest conversation, and education that fosters empathy, awareness, and action. CARM is highly rated by Charity Navigator, recognized as a best Christian workplace, and accredited by the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. We are one of 30 rescue missions in the country rated as excellent and distinguished from Citigate. And most recently, we're an Emmy Award-winning organization with our documentary. You can click the link in the show notes to watch it today. I'm your host, Celia Lively, and today I'm on the mic with my friend Sean Studd. Sean is Carms Director of Men's Ministries, which includes a lot of things that we'll get into later in this episode. And today, in honor of Father's Day being last Sunday, we'll be talking about dads who are experiencing homelessness, what their life looks like in a shelter setting, and how we can work to come alongside them. Sean, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Hey, thanks. Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

How are you feeling?

SPEAKER_00 1:11

I'm feeling good.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

You're feeling good. Good.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

All the spring allergy stuff. I'm doing great.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

You're making it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

I made it.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

How was Father's Day?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

It was great. Very chill.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Good.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

They asked what I wanted, and then they went away. Just kidding. No, we had a great family time together. Had lunch, I got a nap. Oh. All the all the good dad things.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

All the good dad things. And Sean came in and he shared a dad joke. So we're really kicking the episode off strong.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Straight off the bat. There we go.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Can you introduce yourself a little bit? I told them your title, but tell us a little bit more about you.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Yeah, uh married to a born in Knoxville raised person. Uh we hit 30 years this August, which is wild.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

What day in August?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

August the 17th.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Mine's August 19th.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Oh, I'm better. So yeah, and then we have two adult kids who are married, and uh oldest, we have two grandkids, which is exciting. And then we were blessed with kind of late in stage life. Uh another set of two kiddos that are teenagers. Wow. So some half-sisters uh that were adopted into our family. So that's our that's our family. We also have two adopted dogs, so just don't get too close to our house or you'll get adopted. Just collect. Yeah, we just we we we take it all.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

That's awesome. That's awesome. How did you come to work at CARM?

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Uh Andrew. Oh church. Uh VPA programs was somebody I collaborated with at a former job with doing prison and re-entry work with men. And so Andrew, well, and he was doing some workforce development, that's where we met and partnered in very similar themes with similar populations. So that's how I came to Corn.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Yeah, good to know. I didn't know that connection.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

But very cool. Very cool. So today's episode, like we said, is all about dads. I'm very close with my dad. So, Mike, if you're listening, shout out to him. Yeah, go Mike. What a guy. So let's talk about dads and fatherhood in a shelter setting. So, how does you being a dad impact your work here at CARM?

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Yeah, I think it brings a a huge sense of empathy. Um, I think as a as a father, I would want to know where my kids are.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

And so when you roll up on the building and you see a lot of men who are pretty shook and caught in addiction or lifestyles of of whatever, or just disconnected from families and relationships, um, you just know that they're somebody's kid.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

And so you you I have a compassion for the brokenness in that family relationship. But also you know that they many do have kids.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

Because of decisions, they're not with them, and the amount of pain that that's gotta bring. So there's a huge empathy when that relates to the work is just of what it means to actually care for a family and to be separated from that family.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Right. I think Miss Cynthia has said it before of that kind of sets the standard in our mind of would I want my kid to stay here? Would I want my sister or my brother or my dad or my mom to have to stay at Serenity or at New Life or at CARM? And that that rewires your brain a little bit of it's not just up to code, but it's would I want my family member to be here? Would I would they be taken care of well?

SPEAKER_02 4:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

And that can kind of be our charge as staff too.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

So exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Speaking of dads, I know several dads at CARM. I've talked to our guests who have been who talk about their kids. And I know one a couple weeks ago was going to their kids' graduation.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

And so what kind of like barriers or stigmas would dads face that are experiencing homelessness?

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Yeah, I think so much of it is uh guilt and shame. Yeah. It's it's what has separated them from their family, whether it's you know, that became the trigger to addiction, trigger to homelessness. Um, so I think a lot of it's that guilt and shame for those things.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

It's also like men are in our society seen as strong, financial providers, protectors, and these men have kind of lost all of that.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

And they can't provide it for themselves, let alone for their kids, and there's just that that defeat cycle. And it's hard to just kind of face that person in the mirror, let alone face your kids and see that stuff too. So I think so much of that is the stigma that they face and w walking through that pain is is part of the the hard work we do with the men in the building.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Do you see that more as like a a motivator or like for them to get to that next step, or does that kind of trap them in that cycle of shame and guilt?

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Yeah, I well both. I think I think yes, it's it has caught them there. But it's also like reclaiming that. What do you want that to be?

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

It doesn't just because it's been that way doesn't mean it has to be that way forever.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

And how can God redeem that story and in a prodigal sense return you home to your family just as much as he returned as you return home to the Father in heaven? So those are those are great opportunities to be able to to lead into yeah, it's not where we want to be, but it's we don't have to stay here. We don't have to be stuck.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

We're not stuck.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Yeah. Might be stuck for a minute, but that's not where we want to be forever.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Right. Yeah, that's good. What classes, programs, things like that are available for guys at CARM, dads or not?

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Yeah, I think uh to be honest, a lot of our classes focus on just men in general. Yeah. But there's a huge application piece always, and just when it talks about, you know, what is the life skills that we need. So much of the uh we talk about communication, conflict management, and in family relationships, a lot of that is broken down. Um the sense of personal responsibility, yeah. Like owning your mistakes, not you know, groveling or staying in them or like fixating on them in a negative way, but just I made a mistake, I I failed the family in this way, or I failed you, and then how do we find forgiveness in that? So there's we focus on all those those different skills and relationships, building trust again, building integrity, keeping our promises, being a man of our word. All those things land into the relationship of the family that that just continue to amplify that healing. Of course, then there's also life skills like financial stuff and financial skill building, workforce development, um, job readiness, just professionalism. Yeah. So all those things to give them the confidence they need to go stand tall in the midst of a resume that may not look the best.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Yeah. Yeah. There's, I mean, just so much that's available for our guys, not just at 418, but also at New Life. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about that program and how it differs from what's at the main campus?

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah, downtown, 418 at the main campus. We have obviously 24-7 overnight and daytime emergency shelter, all the things you would imagine, food, classes, workforce, and then offsite, um, we have a men's recovery program that is six months of stability and then six months of transition where they can uh focus on their recovery. And uh, this is a smaller segment of our population. There's no more than 50 men, and then for the first six months, they work on what does it look like to embrace a recovery plan? How do I build those skills? How do I do relapse prevention? How do I begin to heal the hurts that have happened to me that led to me hurting other people or even hurting myself? And then they do a lot of work therapy on-site where they'll have different chores or roles, and but they don't have to try to work and labor for money to keep the the carm covers all that, uh, including meals, shelter, all the programming and transportation, which is a blessing.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

And that pressures off so that you can work on your own heart. And then the last six months you begin to what does it look like to get employed? What does it look like to now find housing? How do I re-engage with family? How do I reintegrate into society? So that's a a strong program that allows to do everything we do downtown in a very concentrated and distilled way to get some great transformational effort.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Yeah. That program is amazing. My team goes out there uh every month and we'll just like play. Yeah. We've done cornhole tournaments, we've done pickleballs.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

There you go.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

I mean, just to have a little bit of fun, but then to hear what they're learning about in class and that restoration portion. It was one of the guys that was going to his kids' graduation. Yes. I've just he's not been a present figure in his kids' life and how this program has kind of kick-started that of I want to be present, not just financially and not just to check it off of a box, but like I want to be this way. I've seen how this looks and I I can do that. Now I have the skills in my toolbox to get there, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Yeah, it's I think that's one of the neatest parts is to see men embrace that pride in a good way.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Of like, hey, I've I've made it, I've made progress.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

They're actually inviting me back into their lives. And some of that with trepidation at first, but that trust just begins to to grow.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

And then they just feel proud, like I'm I'm invited in again. And I'm part of the family. And they get to see those major milestones that they've dreamt about.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

But now they get to go be a part of them.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

And that that's those are fun places to see and the excitement of I get to go, I get to go, I get to go. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

And when you've not had that for so long.

unknown 11:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

And I I would love to know like how it feels to be their kid.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

You know, and and to kind of see that dual perspective of we're seeing what's happening with the dad in class.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

The kid might be here in Knoxville or East Tennessee or somewhere, but to get to say, like, my dad made the brave choice to take the next step and to move forward for the sake of our family and the sake of himself too. And I Danita has mentioned before about restoration isn't just getting into housing. It's restoration to your family. It's to your kids, it's to your job, your community. And we get to see that up close, which is really special.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Yeah. And to think about how much was lost and regained. Yeah. I mean, I can think of it would be nice to be invited to one less graduation. Right. You know, I don't necessarily need to do the eighth grade thing again. Right. But but for that moment, that's a huge milestone. Because they didn't know they'd be able to be at that moment.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

And so that's it.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

And they've chosen other things before and now to choose to show up.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

That's monumental.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

It's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

That's a big deal. Okay, so how would you address the trauma of homeless? So we're in a setting like New Life. How do you address the trauma of homelessness alongside the trauma of addiction, of mental health, especially through the lens of a parent?

SPEAKER_00 12:32

That's a good one. I think the biggest thing is, first of all, understanding who our parent really is, our heavenly father, and that that that connection is the biggest one. And that until that's healed, restored, and it's it's hard to be a parent, I would argue, until you've been parented by the father. And so helping men realize that they have a good father that looks out for them, even in the midst of their sin, they were still pursued. Even in the midst of consequence, there's still mercy and forgiveness. And so understanding that first and foremost, and then you know, you don't want to sound like you're too much into the therapy land, but you do have to understand what happened to you. What was it like for you to be a kid? And where did you not receive the heavenly father's love in your earthly relationships?

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

And how did that shape and affect you? And then how does that lead to the decisions you made as a father? So it's seeing all those generations, the generation, that divine generation that we need to all be a part of.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

And then understanding the hurts that happen to us that we can then shepherd other people and lead other people. Because my healing only it doesn't just help me, but it affects a generation after me.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

And you know, I have a grandkid now and I'm thinking, man, there'll be a day that I don't see her kids. And so that's that's weird to to be at a weird place in my life where I'm like, man, I'm not gonna see that generation, but it doesn't mean I can't shape it.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

And so helping helping men see that is huge.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Yeah, that's a massive deal.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

You know, it's something that I just thought about of when CARM was created in 1960 was by a group of local pastors and it was a shelter for men. So that was 66 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Before me.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah, same. We're young.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

So where would you like to see CARM go in the future? Like if that's how it was created, we're still seeing some of those same things go on 66 years later. What would you want for the future of CARM and the men of CARM?

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Yeah, I think uh wow, that's I mean, that's a huge question. I didn't expect that one.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Sorry. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

No, I I think one of the things that's beautiful is you think about as CARM has stepped into some future moments with women and children.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

And what does that look like for integrated whole families who are experiencing homelessness? I think that's part of the dream is how are we engaging the whole family? Um I also think what does it look like to create more dignified space? That these are it feels more like a transition home.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

Um, for a season than it does feel like a shelter where there's a where I'm around a bunch of people. Um I don't know how to explain that in a in a greater way that I would love for it to be a home.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Uh for men who who just need a pit stop. Um not an institution or a way that's a prison-like setting. Yeah, the way we would picture kind of congregant living versus like a a shelter that is more apartment style and very uh therapeutic and redemptive and somehow engages the whole family.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's one thing that I have not seen before. And maybe other shelters have that kind of setting. Do you know of any that have like more sp more focused for men and kids?

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Uh the most recent example we've seen was at Meltrotter.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

That's right, in Grand Rapids.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Uh shelter there. And I know that I believe an another one in Atlanta does similar things. Oh, but um, that's that's all I've seen of up close.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Um and it there's a lot of logistical reasons as to why that is. Sure. It's difficult to keep everybody on the same campus with the same goals. So, but yeah, down the road, it might be nice to explore some of those opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Yeah. If you could add any classes or curriculum at CARM for specifically for dads, what would you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Uh I th I think the biggest thing is kind of revisiting what I said earlier about that you are shaping a generation to come. You know, that even for I mean the scriptures say that you'll proclaim to this generation or proclaim our God to a generation yet unborn.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

And so, like, for your kids and your grandkids and the kids after, like, how are you leaving a legacy on those people? And that happens in your daily character. So it's not like I have to have this long strategy, I just need to live in a godly relationship and let that breathe in and out of me every day.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

And it becomes very intentional over time, but at first it just feels like a natural way of living. And so that's that's what I would love is to keep embedding that generational component into all the things that we do.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yeah, that I mean that it's such a good point. And like what you're saying of like, it's not this big thing. Like I think about my dad, like he just shows up and he calls and he knows my friends' names, and it's not like this.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Good old Mike.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Good old Mike, he's the best. But like it doesn't have to be a fancy, I followed the formula. Right. I, you know, it, but it's you just show up and how that's impacted me. And I look at my nephew, I have this video from this weekend. My dad plays the piano beautifully. Oh, doesn't know how to read a lick of music.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Which is so annoying because I took piano lessons for 10 years and I can't play that well. But my dad can hear it. So we heard a song at church, came home and plays it on the piano. That's good. And my two-year-old nephew, Brooks, is saying, Wow, and is shaking his little toy and trying to sing along with my dad. And it's like, you see the generations right here of I don't I don't think Brooks will remember that, but I have it, and just how cool that is of like, we're celebrating Father's Day, it's loud, you can hear everybody talking in the background. But you just show up and you keep showing up, and then you apologize when you mess up because you will mess up.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

I've done it.

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Right. You take accountability.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

That's all right.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

What's your favorite part about being a dad?

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Oh, wow. I huh. I think the the part is just the joy of watching people grow up and develop into who they are.

SPEAKER_03 19:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:01

I mean, I look at my my kids and I see the, you know, everybody's like, oh, they kind of look like mom, they kind of look like dad. They have your whatever, you know, your behavioral traits, but then they become their own people.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

And watching that happen has been really fun to see in my oldest, my daughter.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

My my son who is uh older, but um watching him grow up and become a a young man who has a career and leading and becoming a leader in his church and in his community, it's just who they become. Watching our teenage girls who we decide to do teenagers again, that's fun. And so the second round, hopefully a little wiser, but also like watching them become just the unique young women they are, seeing the personality of our grandkids flourish.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

And like, oh wow, this is it's just I don't know, the older I get, the more I see them becoming who they are and how God gifted them and made them, and I can just be there to to fan the frames and also cheer them on.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yeah. So that's really fun. I like that. I like that. What do you think the biggest misconception is that the public has about homelessness, men who are experiencing homelessness in shelters, especially those who are dads?

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah, I I would say that people think they're not trying.

SPEAKER_03 20:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Or they don't care. Um I think they care but they're stuck. I think they've tried, but they've also had so many things against them. Right. So many they it's not all just their mistakes. Right. And so there are a lot of things in society that just make it even more difficult. And and I just think fighting a lot of stuff, just if somehow people could walk in their shoes, hear their story, understand the complexities of the pain they came from, and all the pieces of the puzzle that made that situation that situation.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

I think that's the biggest thing is that they are trying, that they do care. It's just that they have so many adversities. And we just need to do the best we can to support them until they can grow out of that.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

And not grow out of it in a I don't mean that negatively.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Grow into the place that God has for them.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

I think that's one of my favorite things about our staff is your only a couple degrees of separation from addiction or from family issues, mental health, homelessness. Like when I look at our team, I see a compassionate group of individuals because either they've lived it or one person away from them has lived it. Yes. And so that's what I would encourage our listeners is if you're here in Knoxville, come to CARM. Come take a tour, come volunteer, come see it up close and personal for yourself. If you're not in Knoxville, find a shelter close to you or find a ministry like CARM that is close to you and go, it will change your perspective eternally. But when I started at CARM, I didn't know any of this stuff. I worked in summer camp, I worked at an international nonprofit. I didn't know anything about urban ministry or homelessness, addiction, trauma. I d I didn't know anything about that. But until I sat with people and heard their story, I mean, my brain will never be the same. My compassion will never be the same. Praise God.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

You know, and then you look at your own family and it's like, oh, there's this in my own family tree.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

And we're not all that different, you know?

SPEAKER_00 22:26

No, I I mean I my family and my wife's family, there's we've all been touched by trauma, addiction, all the things we're talking about. And yet I also look at when I hear people's stories and they share about they got to a point of decision and made that decision, and yet I just made a different decision.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

But with all the factors at play, I could have made the same decision. And I could be in the same shoes.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

There's we're not that different.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

We're not that different.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

We're just we just had a a little bit of change at a little bit of time. And for me that brings just an extra level of compassion because imagine if they did have that care and that support. If they did have somebody else saying, Maybe this is the better way.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

And that's those are the places of just like, wow, I was I was in the same I could be in the same shoes. And had I had the same set of circumstances, I probably would be.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Right. I was just dealt a different hand. Slightly different, you know. Do you have any stories about dads at CARM? Or a favorite story?

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Uh I think some of the things you talked about, like people getting a revisit with their families, I think that's the biggest one on repeat.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Um, I think uh I've been at CARM for just over a year and a half, and I remember my first week, there was a guy, we'll call him Kevin, and uh we were in a class, and he said, uh, I finally get to go and see my kids. And he hadn't been able to see them in years because of addiction and because of his decisions and a lot of trauma that had happened with the family. But he said, you know, after years of silence, then there were phone calls. After phone calls, then there was an invitation.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

And it's actually happening. And I just remember watching the joy and the pride and realizing that's that's what I want to see on repeat for our men.

SPEAKER_02 24:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Especially our fathers. And to get past that, yes, there's still the pain, there's the owned responsibility, right? But get past that and be able to see that God can restore.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Mm-hmm. Yeah, get past that initial awkward, that initial hurt. It's not gonna be rainbows and butterflies overnight.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

It's still gonna be pain.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Right, you're gonna have to have hard conversations.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Leave some mistrust. And of course, I think that's what makes us human, but yeah. At the same time, the restoration was beginning. And keep keep holding on to that and keep pressing into it.

SPEAKER_01 24:42

Yeah. I think mine is kind of what I shared at the beginning about the guy at New Life. He got to New Life because his brother told him about it. Because his brother had gone through the program.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

And so to see that family restoration between brothers and then between the one brother who's currently there, who now is getting to see his kids graduate. You know, it's never, it's never just about you. Right. No decision you make is just about you. There's always a domino effect or a ripple effect. And to see it up close for this family here is just wow, it it's bigger than us.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Yeah, that's powerful.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Yeah, it will impact generations, just like you were saying earlier, which is really cool. So every episode, I ask our guest if they have a sticky note. So my youth pastor used to do this when I was in the youth grade.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

I don't have a sticky note. That's okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Dad jokes.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Um no, but it's like if somebody did not take away every wonderful thing that you said today, which they should have, they should have been listening. But if they couldn't remember all of that, what would you want them to walk away with on a sticky note?

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Yeah. I think for especially related to fathers or men, especially, uh, I would say just because somebody doesn't have a bed doesn't mean they don't have dreams and a family and desire to see those things fulfilled. Yeah. And God has bigger dreams and desires for that person. And so every person you see on the side of the road or caught in homelessness and you have a thought, just remember that. Yeah. They may not have a bed, but they still have the same hopes and desires that swirl in your heart and mine.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

And they need somebody to help foster those and bring those out and point people to Christ who will bring that healing and allow that to happen.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

That's really good. Do you want a job on the marketing team?

SPEAKER_00 26:34

I do. I do.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Did you guys hear that line? That's really good. Just because they don't have a bed, they still have it. I mean, we could. For you, we could.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

All right. Sounds good.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

That's really good. I think you said it in your speech at an event of no man wakes up, like no nobody dreams about, I can't wait to be homeless one day. I can't wait to live in a shelter with 200 roommates.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

You know, I think you said in your speech of like you dream of a job and of a family and coming home.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Purpose.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

You know, and how that can fall away sometimes, but it's not out of reach. You can still, you can still get there. And so I love that idea just of compassion of that's somebody's kid. We're all somebody's kid. That's right. You know, and having that compassion towards our neighbors goes a really long way.

SPEAKER_02 27:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Well, it's good. What okay, my final question. What does home mean to you? This is the homeward podcast.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

The homeward podcast.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

So, what does home mean for Sean?

SPEAKER_00 27:32

I just think about home for us growing up was just a place where all the fun, connective places, all the things happen. Yeah. But it was it's also kind of like the sports idea of being home. Like it's you had your advantage because you're familiar.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

And so for me, home was home is like comfy clothes on the couch, cuddling, laughing about inside family jokes, having snacks, watching a show together, yeah. Eating meals. We spent so much time in our family growing up eating meals together. And I think that's where so when I think of home, that's what I think of. That's good. Plus a couple crazy family vacations makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

That's good. The home team advantage. That's really good. Really good. Anything else you want to add today about CARM, dads, fatherhood, all the things.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

I think I'd just come back to what you said earlier. It's like if you've never been to CARM, come visit. Come visit. I mean, if you have a perception, uh, I would challenge you to come visit because I bet you it's not quite full picture. Right. And the more people do that, I think it grows their heart. But then it also grows a compassion for their church and those engagement places of involvement. So just come and see.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Love it. Thanks for joining us on the show today. You're welcome to come back anytime.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

All right, next time. It's a fun time.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Yeah, come on. Come on. And to our listeners, thank you guys so much for listening. Be sure to check the show notes for any relevant links, and I will see y'all at home.