Money Matters | S2E14

In Episode 14 of Deeper at Life, we unpack 1 Corinthians 16:1–4 and the topic of giving. Together we dive into what Scripture teaches about gospel-shaped giving, stewardship, sacrifice, worship, and generosity. This conversation goes beyond finances to reveal how money often exposes what we truly trust and value. Through practical application and deeper theology, they explore why biblical giving is ultimately an act of worship rooted in the grace of Jesus Christ and how living like the resurrection is real changes the way we view everything we have.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

All right. Um, yeah, I mean it's it just seems like the theme is exposing our hearts. That's again getting to that. And so that's through different avenues. Um and yeah, you already started talking about stewardship versus you know, versus stewardship. And you talked about um stewardship versus ownership, which was sick. Was that the hundred dollar? That was the hundred dollar uh illustration, right? Yeah, I think that was a pivotal point um just in general, I think for people to see probably um ownership versus stewardship.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Yeah, what what what do you have that you did not receive?

SPEAKER_00 0:36

First Corinthians 4 7. What do you have that you did not receive? Anything? No. Okay, well then received from whom? From him, from the Lord. And so the issue is not this is mine, the issue is this is his, and he allows me to live off some of it, and then calls me to give some of it. So, Lord, what do you want me to do? If he asks for all of it, if he if we go 90% give, 10% keep, then all right, I gotta adjust the way I live. I'm gonna have to change some things. Um, and and that's not ever been the the standard, there's not necessarily been a standard, um, which tells us again it's not about the amount, it's about the posture of the heart that's surrender to the Lord in viewing what I possess as my stewardship, not my ownership. That changes everything. And so if we don't see, if we see what we have as our as ours, we earned it, we fought for it, we get to decide what to do with it. Sure, I'll give some back to God. Then we we've missed it. But if we see this is from God, He's blessed us with this. And so my first prayer, my first question is all right, I got this amount on this check. What do you want me to do with this, God? And that's why I think it's so important for us to be free from consumer debt, to be wise in how we navigate those things, um, because it frees us to be able to allow the Lord to lead us in the being generous and to find the the insurmountable joy of generosity rather than having another thing that we paid with for with money we don't have on a card. And I think that's the problem that we run into. And we all do in our culture, we all have that temptation and that possibility.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

So I think it attacks our pride a little bit. Uh, maybe, maybe as men, I don't know. Um, where we I earned this, this is mine. Um, I get to do what I want with it. Um and and it just kind of addresses uh again a heart posture uh of of pride of uh because I earned this, because I worked for this, it's mine, therefore I get to choose what I want to do with it. Um and I I think God is is will slowly chisel away at that pride to say, no, this has always been mine. It's always been mine. Um I've always provided for you. Um, I've always been the one watching over you and caring for you. Um uh will you be obedient to to give back um and and or you know, to give to what I'm doing. Yep. Yep, totally.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Your the Adrian Rogers quote was insane. Yeah, it was like in a in a great way, not a bad way. I didn't mean to. That's probably not the best word, but you said uh he said any Christian who gives who would give less under grace than a Jew would give under the law is a disgrace to grace. Man, what a just right hook.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Yeah. Well, I think that was a response. I appreciate that. I've used that for years now, but it was a response to people who would say, I don't need to give. I'm in the New Testament, and the tithe is not a New Testament thing. There's all kinds of semantics we can do on that. One we could argue is uh tithe isn't necessarily a law, the tithe predated the law. So you can't just say, well, the tithe was in the law, not in the New Testament. Well, tithe actually predated the law all the way back to Abraham and the Melchizedek, right? The tithe was given before the law was all the way instituted. But that's not that's beside the point. There's storehouse giving, that's what we would call this, like set in store. Well, the implication here is a the first fruit, which would be the tenth, is set aside. But okay, you're right. The word tithe, the number 10% is never given in the New Testament. But you know what is in the New Testament? Grace giving. It's lavish giving. It so far surpasses the tenth in the church, in the book of Acts, that to ever be like, well, the tithe is not in the New Testament, so I don't have to do that, is just a disgrace to grace. So you're telling me that a Jew under the law would give more in their justification or more in their activity to the Lord than we would who've experienced the lavishness of grace. Yeah, that's why he's like, that's a disgrace to grace. Yeah. And Adrian Rogers' old veteran pastor has a way of saying things that are just such such uh good hits.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

So I think as we've talked about the heart, there is something that maybe you should check your heart, uh, or even maybe your understanding of the cross. If it is hard for you to be generous um with how generous God has been to you, um, I think one of two things, you need to check your heart, or you need to check your understanding of the gospel and and and go back and see how much God really has given you. Um because I think, yeah, um, I think giving should remind us of the amazing gifts that God has given us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

100%.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

And that really goes to point three, is all about the heart, right? It's more prepared. So I kind of level battled with how do we articulate not just the practice of giving, because that's what he starts with. That's planned. First day of the week, you set some money aside. It can be it can become very wooden, very ritualistic. Yeah. Here's my money. I took this, I set it aside, I brought it. That's great. Planned, planned giving is part of it. But you can have planned giving and not have a heart that's in the right posture, which is why I think is prepared giving, which is, which is why he's like, hey, do this before I get there. Well, I man, I sat there and wrestled with that for a while. I'm like, why doesn't Paul want to be there? Is he just trying to avoid the awkward situation of talking about money? And then I realized I really do think Paul's like, do this before I get there because I want it to be an act of heartfelt worship, not a response to apostolic presence. I don't want you just to do this because I'm there. I want you to do this when I'm not there because it's part of your heart that is then prepared before the Lord, that's releasing your grip on your finances, and you're ready to give. When I get there, it's just like, let's get it. I don't I don't want to have to preach a message to soften your heart about giving. I don't want to have to address it. I just want to, as soon as I get there, I want to pass the baskets and take up the offering. And we just do it. And I, and and that comes only when the heart is prepared. Paul doesn't want to have to do the work, he wants you to come ready. And that's why he says in 2 Corinthians 9, 7, each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. So that implies there was some work done pre-service before I ever got to service, that I had decided in my heart that my declaration of worship in my giving is gonna be this. Yeah. Not because you told me, not because you guilted me, not because the sermon was great, not because you played the keys under the giving, worship and giving moment of the worship service. No, I'd already decided. I'd already decided in my heart what I was gonna do. And that means your heart was prepared. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Yeah. I think the cool thing is God often or He does work in the planned giving. Yeah. But then He's gonna challenge His people that, hey, what about this too? Right? The unplanned giving. Like week in and week out, I'm gonna give. I'm gonna give to the proportion that God has allowed me to give, and I'm gonna continue to give that to His church, to His people, and to His work. But there's gonna be times where hopefully my heart is soft enough to and my ear is in tuned enough to hear God say, No, I want you to go above and beyond, and I want you to give to that.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Um, and I want you to, and and so some for me and Mailen, it's it's been this we're regularly giving. And then there's seasons where, and we claim zero on our tax return because we love a good tax return. But then there's seasons where God is like, give all that. And it's like, okay, we're gonna regularly give, and then we're gonna we're gonna give what God is asking us to give over here as well. And so I think there's the the the both and right. You plan your giving, um, and then you also listen to God say, where do you want me to give above and beyond as well?

SPEAKER_00 9:02

So, yeah, absolutely. It's it's it's more than just I gave a certain amount. Right. It's more God's leading me in that. And that's where I think I I mentioned Tim Keller kind of towards the end of the sermon, but the best way to deal with your heart is to direct it, not express it. He said something the way to deal with the heart is to direct it, not just express it. So, how do we direct our heart? Well, where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. So I'm going to direct my heart. I'm going to focus my heart, prepare my heart so that giving is not a wrestling match. Yeah. Now, planning is part of it, and then the softening of my heart to it, so that then the Spirit of God can say, Hey, you thought that was all I wanted you to give, like you just said, but I actually wanted you to give towards this too. Right. And some of that's giving in the church, it's part of it, but some of it's just, I want to bless that family. Yep. I want to go help that person over there. I want to pay for this person's meal next to me. And there's just a way in which you have the liberty to feel the unbelievable joy of using your resources that God has entrusted to you for the good of another person. Yep. And I would always argue, though, that the best way to direct your finances in response to the gospel is for gospel ministry. That's right. Because you're meeting man's biggest need, not by paying for the meal of the person behind you, but by meeting the needs of their uh soul spiritually. So helping Timothy and uh Paul on their journey was to help the gospel advance, churches be strengthened, leaders be developed, and the money was going to those things. And so preparing my heart is to see things more clearly than just what my bank account is at. Yeah, that's the preparation.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Yep. I don't have anything uh to be honest to follow up. Uh this isn't a Sarah McLaughlin pause. That was a good one. So cue the puppies. Yeah, the puppies, man. They always had piano that you were playing. This is in the uh Well, I think it's this.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Here's the question. And then I think we go to the last one is this is are you seeing your generosity as your participation in gospel ministry? That's the that's the big thing at stake here. So we would always say everybody in the church is is called to get involved. Everybody's called to do either give or go. Everybody's called to go. I would say not either or I think everybody's called to give and everybody's called to go. Yep. And at different degrees, at different times, at different points in your life. But everybody's called to be a part of in gospel ministry. And one of the ways God has designed it is that gospel ministry happens through generosity. Well, why did he design it that way? Well, because in that he has accomplished two things the detachment of our heart from the idol of money and the advancement of the gospel, which is prioritizing him. So this is an awkward conversation for us all to hear. Um nobody wants to, oh, good, they're talking about money on the podcast today. Hopefully, they tell me how much more I should give. Nobody thinks that way. But my point again is let's pull out and see the big picture. The big picture isn't money, it's heart, it's worship, it's mission, it's gospel advancement, and it's God designing it in his infinite wisdom that the thing that advances the mission is also the thing that detaches your heart from a God that will overpromise and underdeliver and leave you disappointed every single time. So God does a miraculous thing, detaches your heart and advances the mission in this one act of generosity. That's the issue here. That's what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

That's good. That's good.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

Yeah, that's good. Um, I don't really know what to say, to be honest. I was just gonna relate, like it is surrendering that to him, and he does unbelievable things in it. And I guess just being a baby Christian or first generation Christian and just seeing him show up in that peace, like you just surrendering it and having just ultimate peace and freedom and being a part of it is like I just don't even know. That's like what I try to tell people that don't know Jesus. I'm just like, you just cannot describe this, yeah, this what it brings and the joy. So I think I brought up missions earlier because I love I love the last point that it's purposeful, and because I'd had the privilege of going on a mission and it was unbelievably life-changing to see that God moves all over the place um and to just see that the mission is actually the mission, like you're saying, giving and and going. Um, and it is, yeah, we are supposed to take the gospel and go everywhere with it because people haven't heard or they don't know about Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

So I don't know. I think going back to that heart posture thing that we've been talking about so much is really a heart posture is the going and the giving, right? There is times where you are saying, Man, I do not want to go. And God is saying, No, go. And there's times where you're probably you might be saying, No, I don't want to give, and he's saying, Give. Yeah. Um, and so really it is, it's it's God. I mean, open hands. We talk about this all the time. Open hands, open heart. God, will you use my life? And as you said, it should be both. Yeah. Hear the Holy Spirit talking to you, uh, inviting you to go and to give at the same time, so that his mission uh is lived out through you. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

So I was thinking about it's it's helpful for us to think about Philippians chapter four. So in in 2 Corinthians chapter 8, writing to the church in Corinth, Paul references the churches in Macedonia. Philippi, the church of Philippi was one of those churches that he was referencing. And so he he's writing to them at the end of Philip Philippians chapter four, and he's like, it was kind of you to share my trouble. So, okay, at that point we're like, what does that mean? And now he talks about it a little bit more. And you Philippians yourselves know that in the beginning of the gospel, so in the beginning of my gospel ministry, when I was setting out to preach the gospel and establish churches, when I left Macedonia, no church entered into partnership with me in giving and receiving except you only. Okay, that's cool. So Paul's like, listen, I just want you to know something that you took part in my trouble of being poor or broke in the advancement of the gospel. And when I left Macedonia, there weren't very many churches that were willing to partner with me in this giving thing, but you did. Even in Thessalonica, he says, you sent me help for my needs again and again. Like I was regularly getting Apple Pay notifications from you because you were selling me money constantly, right? What a credible thing. And then he says, but I'm not saying this because I seek the gift. I'm not seeking the gift, but I seek the fruit that increases to your credit. You are getting, and again, what credit? What are we talking about? Like there's some ledger in heaven. I don't even know that. I just think he's saying, I just want you to know that what you gave in giving to me financially to help me in this ministry gospel, it it and whatever good came of my ministry, you get credit for that. And whatever you're gonna do with that, however that pans itself out in heaven, that's up to God. But he says, I have received full payment and more. I am well supplied, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. So the church in Philippi gives money to this guy named Epaphroditus. Epaphroditus brings the money, so it wasn't Zelle, it was Epaphroditus, brings it to Paul. He's like, I got it all, and I have so much, I have more than I need. And then I love this part. This giving that you gave, he says, is a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God. So I'm helped, the gospel is advanced, God is glorified, and there's a response, verse 19, my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches and glory in Christ Jesus. To our God and Father be glory forever and ever. Amen. Not saying that God's gonna give you a new BMW or a new home in the gated community of the golf course, whatever. He's just saying that when you faithfully steward the resources that God has given you for the advancement of the gospel, the gospel goes forward, Christ is honored and glorified, and gratitude rises up to him that's pleasing to God, and then God continues to meet those deeds because you're trusting in your father who knows your needs and meets them. That to me is what point four is all about. What we want to do. Do we want to just hold on and live, live, live better, more opulently wealthy, luxurious, comfortable lives? Nothing wrong with that. There's nothing immoral about that unless that has become your idol. That's what you're trusting in, that's your God. And it is a not following the leadership of the spirit that says, I want you to put this money back in the advancement of the gospel because God is glorified and uh you are freed from the bondage of that materialism. And I think 1 Corinthians or Philippians chapter 4 is a great connector to that whole thing.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

So good. When when God allows us to see life change through our giving, yeah. Is there is there anything better? I mean, we like, man, a uh a nicer car, you know, nicer house, whatever. But the reality is, and we and we got to see this with City Light West LA, um, through our giving, God drew um an awesome young man to reach out to the pastor there. And through that came to know Jesus Christ and was baptized this last Easter. Um, and again, it's not our money that we gave, it's God who did the work. But through our giving here at life, a gospel outpost in LA happened. And a young man came to know Christ through that church. Um, and his life is forever changed through part of the giving here at life.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

There's nothing better than that. No car, no house, no anything is better than seeing the gospel transform an individual's life.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Yeah. So a hundred percent. And it all goes back to where your heart is. So let's do a dot connect here. Colossians chapter three, verse one. If you then have been raised with Christ, there's resurrection. Seek the things that are above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. I'm seeking those things, which means that's where my treasure is going. That's where I'm directing my heart. So if that's where I'm directing my heart, then that's where I'm directing my finances and the things that capture my heart. And then he says to us, Jesus does, right? Lay, do not lay up treasure on earth, but lay up treasure in heaven. On earth, moth will eat away at the fabric and thieves will break in and steal. But up there, when you invest in that, the things that are above, you that have been risen with Christ, there's no moth that eats that fabric. There's no thieves that break through and steal. That's where we're laying up our treasure. And so when he talks about fruit that remains and abounds to your account, what he's saying is living for things that last for eternity. Yeah. Living for things that bring God glory and honor, setting my heart on those things and treasuring those things. Because I get a new car and it's great for about a month. And then my kid spills french fries on the thing and it smells funny. And now I'm like, it's lost its sheen. It's not that good anymore. Maybe I should get a new one, right? It's just that I need another thing. I need the next one. I need the nicer one. I need the newer one, right? So I think that's the connection here. And where is that all connected? Well, again, 2 Corinthians chapter 8, verse 9. Paul encouraging this church to actually go through with the giving says to them, You know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. So what's the motivation behind our generosity? Here it is. You know the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, that though he, Jesus, was rich, yet for your sake he became poor. So that you, who are poor, can by his poverty become rich. Rich in what way? Rich in righteousness, rich in holiness, rich in eternal value and part of his kingdom. So the the dot connect to all of this is gospel-shaped, gospel-centered people. And if you look at giving as I don't want to do that, or I'm going to do that because God will love me if I do do that, then we have an issue. But if your giving says, Yeah, he gave that for me, he gave his life for me. So if I can give a little bit for the good of the advancement of the gospel in someone's life, then by all means, I'm gonna follow the example of Jesus Christ, who displayed this kind of generosity in the gospel, and I'm going to advance the good the kingdom in that way. That's the gospel foundation, gospel shaped view of our giving. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:56

Yeah. I don't think uh I just wrap it there, to be honest. Yeah. That was uh pretty solid. Your your I mean you basically just answered all your truth, truth to life, which the only place I was gonna go. Was that really you kind of closed with it's not about pressure, it's about transformation, and then you said, um, what does your giving reveal? You know, and and that's kind of where you went with the truth to life. And I think you just answered that, you know. I think probably the first question is the most convicting. What does my giving say about what I'm trusting? And so that's kind of what we just talked about the entire podcast with our heart posture. And so well, let me say this.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

I'll close with this and then we can finish it up. But if you're not a Christian, just gaze upon the generosity of Jesus Christ. That's right. Accept what he did for you. Just accept the fact that he gave so much to you who could give him nothing in return. He didn't give his life so that he could get you because you're just this, or I'm just this great addition to his team. No, I was broken, full of sin, dead in my trespasses and sin, and he gave and he died for me so that I can have life. That's generosity. Then, in response to that, I would say this: give in a way that pulls your heart toward God. I think that's a good statement. Give in a way that your heart is pulled away from trusting in or worshiping your possessions and is pulled toward God. Give in a way that declares you trust in God. I'm not trusting in my finances. I'm trusting in you, God. Therefore, I'm willing to give away more than makes sense. I want to live that way. And give in a way that joins the mission of the gospel. I'm not gonna just give to puppies that need rescuing. Again, nothing wrong with that. But listen, maybe there's is, I don't know. But give in such a way that the gospel advances, Jesus Christ is glorified, the kingdom is expanded, churches are started, leaders are strengthened. That's right. Give in a way that says, My life, my resources, my future, and my hope belongs to the Lord. If you've trusted Jesus Christ, now follow in step with him and live generously. Open those hands up. It's worth it.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Let's go. All right. Pray us out.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

All right, Father, thank you for being such a generous, generous God. Thank you for loving us so much so that you gave your only son. And I think about the example of Jesus, Paul describes who, though he was rich, became poor, that we, through his poverty, might become rich. Man, what a truth. And so I just pray that you would free us, that you would deliver us from the empty bondage of materialism. Help us to see that our resources are things that you've given us to steward. Certainly not always an easy topic. Certainly, all of us have uh struggles and battles when it comes to just managing money and using money and giving money away. So I just pray that you'd just help us live free from that because it's a cruel master, but it is such a useful servant in our hands. And so I pray that you would bless life, bless the missions that we're a part of. I pray that we could see more of life transformation through the obedient generosity of your people here at this church. And again, thank you. Thank you for Christ who makes it possible for us to live free of this, full of the joy that you offer in giving. And again, we thank you in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.