#24 Why People Don't Listen to You — A Communication Expert Reveals What You're Doing Wrong

Neil Bhandari has advised Fortune 500 CEOs and some of the world's most influential leaders — and his verdict is that most people are leaking credibility every time they open their mouth without knowing it. In this episode of The Alpha Renaissance, Neil breaks down the three Cs of elite communication — clarity, concision, and credibility — and explains exactly why silence is the most powerful tool a man can deploy in any room.

From the neuroscience of the amygdala to the reason Trump's simple phrases outlasted Hillary Clinton's two-page manifesto, Neil and Taq unpack what it actually means to communicate with presence. They also dig into code-switching, authentic voice, how AI is reshaping communication, and why your verbal habits are costing you influence you don't even know you're losing. If you're serious about upping your game and maintaining agency in every conversation, this episode is required listening.

Catch more of Neel here:
IG: @neel__bhandari
https://www.echios.com/info@echios.com
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0:00 - Introduction — Neil Bhandari & The Alpha Renaissance

2:00 - Why communication is your most overlooked asset

4:00 - The three Cs — clarity, concision, and credibility

6:00 - How to pull any audience into your conversation

7:00 - Why "trust me" destroys your credibility instantly

9:00 - Gravitas — how CEOs walk in and own the room

11:00 - Interpersonal vs. digital communication

13:00 - Communication as real-world fitness — always be on

14:00 - Neil's "literally" story — blind spots we all have

16:00 - How to use your voice memo app to audit yourself

17:00 - Why Americans fill silence — the cultural breakdown

18:00 - The neuroscience of silence and the amygdala

21:00 - Silence as the visible punctuation

22:00 - How silence is weaponized in negotiation

26:00 - Weak language in speech vs. strong language in writing

28:00 - Authenticity, code-switching, and the South Side of Chicago

32:00 - Adapting your communication without losing yourself

35:00 - The Delta CEO and nuance within the norm

37:00 - Taq's tour guide story — how he learned to speak

42:00 - Live coaching session — Neil coaches Taq in real time

46:00 - The Ekios AI tool — seeing your communication data

50:00 - Cousin Greg from Succession and the 3% disfluency rule

52:00 - Trump's communication style and why it works

53:00 - Trump vs. Hillary — the 2016 communication breakdown

57:00 - Meeting Hillary Clinton — warmth vs. message

58:00 - Biden, Trump, and the power of leader visibility

1:00:00 - Kitchen of words — the ingredients of great communication

1:05:00 - AI and communication — what LLMs are getting wrong

1:09:00 - AI as a team member, not a replacement

1:11:00 - Tools for men to build communication confidence

1:14:00 - Everyone is watching — own your camera presence

1:15:00 - Neil's parting challenge — earn the Michelin star

#Motivation #Inspiration #PersonalGrowth #SelfImprovement #Success #Mindset #PersonalDevelopment #GrowthMindset #Leadership #Podcast #CommunicationSkills #PublicSpeaking #HowToCommunicate #BodyLanguage #ExecutivePresence #SpeakWithConfidence #ProfessionalDevelopment #CareerGrowth #Networking #Negotiation #MensHealth #MensMentalHealth #MasculineExcellence #AlphaRenaissance #HighValueMan #MensPodcast #Brotherhood #Discipline #SelfMastery #Confidence #AI #ChatGPT #ArtificialIntelligence #AITools #FutureOfWork #Productivity #Psychology #Neuroscience #HumanBehavior #EmotionalIntelligence #EQ #CodeSwitching #Authenticity #BlackExcellence #ChicagoRoots #Entrepreneur #Podcast #Mindfulness #MentalHealth #SelfAwareness #LifeCoach #Coaching #SelfHelp #SuccessMindset

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

What's the number one aspect of a person today is the way they communicate. That's how they show up, that's how we see them, that's every experience and interaction we have with them. If you're using weak phrases or phrases that reveal something about your mindset, people will latch on to that because you're showing it up much more. If your message isn't clear, concise, and credible enough that a person absorbs, digests, and then shares it with other people, you haven't done a good enough job. If AI is not part of every single discussion and conversation you're having, you are missing out on one of the most intelligent team members you could have ever hired.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

In a world drowning in noise, most people never learn the one skill that determines everything: how to communicate with clarity, conviction, and presence. My guest today built his life around that mastery, turning communication into a craft, a discipline, and a pathway to agency in every room he enters. And for people moving beyond their origins, beyond their zip codes, communication becomes more than a skill. It becomes your passport. I grew up on the south side of Chicago, a place I carry with immense pride, but I learned early on that if you want to expand your world, you have to learn the language power listens to without losing who you are in the process. In this conversation, Neil shows us how to build that voice. A voice that's authentic, not performative, grounded, not pretentious. A voice that's clear, concise, credible. Welcome to the Alpha Renaissance with Neil Bandari. First off, Neil, I want to thank you for coming to the show. I know it's uh been an arduous journey, but you made it. So thank you for so much for joining us on the Alpha Renaissance.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

I'm excited to be here. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

We're so happy to have you. Uh you're like what I like to call a communication whisperer. You understand communication and it's minutia, and you can see it on the grand scale. This is what you specialize in, this is what you've dedicated your life to. And you've advised Fortune 500 CEOs, some of the most wealthiest people in the world, some of the most intelligent, brightest people in the world on effectively communicating. And that's what I want to talk to you about today. Because here on the Alpha Renaissance, this is a podcast dedicated to the pursuit of masculine excellence. And part of excelling is understanding how to maintain agency in a world full of distractions.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

100%.

SPEAKER_02 2:55

So thank you for coming on.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Thank you. Appreciate that. Did I do you justice? You did how you would describe yourself? Yes, definitely. Well, I tend not to like to describe myself in any which way, more have an experience with me, and then you'll get to see what it's all about. The root of everything, and what I appreciate about the Alpha Renaissance is that you're starting people off saying agency within themselves, and what's the number one aspect of a person today is the way they communicate. That's how they show up, that's how we see them, that's every experience and interaction we have with them. And what I find fascinating is people don't spend enough time. They spend a lot of time on the appearance side, but they're not spending time on actually how they're communicating.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

When you say they're spending time on the experience side, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 3:43

More appearance. So when we wake up, if you're a man or a woman, you'll spend some time in the mirror making sure you look okay. But we don't open our mouth when we look in the mirror to see how am I going to communicate today. We look at just the silent appearance of how we are. But that's only one exposure. Sometimes that's only 7% of the complete makeup of how someone's experiencing you. How you communicate stands for so much more. And the biggest issue that we find with everyone in the world today is that we're all trying to grab people's attention and there's not enough of it to go around.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

So when you do have a moment with someone, where are you falling in that range?

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

And so when we have an experience with someone, we'll coach them through what we call the three C's of great communication.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

What are they?

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Any guess what the first one is? Every time somebody communicates, you're looking to see if they have this.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

I would say if they articulate themselves clearly.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Exactly. So clarity is number one. We want people to be clear when they speak. How many times have you been in a conversation where 10 minutes in, you're still wondering what the heck are they going on about? I've got no idea what's happening in this conversation. Clarity is so important. Second C, we're limited on time. Conciseness. It's so important for individuals to realize if you're not on point with your message, you're going to lose the audience. Even if you're one of the best communicators, there's a window of time that you have, which is typically maxes out at two minutes, where if you haven't pulled in the audience within that time, you've lost that conversation. Their minds have already gone. They're thinking about lunch, they're thinking about an email, they're thinking about something else. So there's a strategy we use with individuals where we coach them on something called suggestive thinking, sometimes questions, but a lot of the time is suggestive thinking, which is how do I pull you into this conversation by saying, How many of you have seen this? And as soon as you say that, how many of you have then the brain kicks in and says, Oh, I have what's what's he about to say? And automatically you start to pull people into your conversation.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

So you're taking them from just focusing on your words to focusing on a concept that you presented to them. Exactly. Kind of just like a kind of hook them in.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Exactly. Have you seen this before? And the brain says, What have I seen before? What am I what is Neil asking me here? So you've got to be clear, you have to be concise. And then the third one kicks in, which we all want, but you have to earn it. You can't force it on people. And that's why part of our training sessions, when we run them, I'll be running a training session. I've gone 15 minutes and I haven't even told them who I am. I haven't even told them my name yet. And I do it on purpose to see who's going to stay with me. That is it enough. And I'm using it as an exercise that I don't have to prove the third C to you. I'm trying to earn it with you as I'm communicating. The third C is credibility. We all want it. That trust me. Have you heard people say in conversation, you need to trust me.

SPEAKER_02 6:50

How bad is that? Believe me. If someone is telling you, then immediately desperate.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah, exactly. It could have worked years and years ago where you need to trust me. And if you use it in a measured approach, I'm I'm a fan of some reality TV, not all reality TV, but there's one program that I love to watch. There's some that are good. Yes. Love is blind. Don't judge me, but love is blind. My wife and I love to watch Love is Blind. Why? Because I'm watching to see the behaviors of the individuals. Is there going to be a connection? Yes. And so we were watching Love is Blind in Italy yesterday, and the gentleman, I can't speak Italian, my wife can, but I'm watching him and he says, You need to trust me. The female is having doubt. She's saying, I'm I don't trust you because you were doing this gesture to all the ladies on the other side. So you're doing this with me. How can I even trust you? And then his response, he paused and he said it with some gravity, you need to trust me. And that is where it can be used periodically, but even still, the data was showing you can't trust him, how his actions were context, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:06

So if that's an emotionally charged situation, she wants to believe because she probably cares about him, likes him a lot. She's in a relationship or a situation ship with him. Yeah. So there's context where if you use, yeah, trust me, yes, it may work.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

Yes, but if you use it five times in a paragraph, so if I say, look, you need to trust me here, okay, and then I tell you, well, it you gotta trust me on this. Yes, you know, you I need you to believe what I'm saying, then it's I'm forcing it, and that's not where you earn it. So what I mean by credibility also is when you enter a room, if you have to tell them I've got 20 years of research in this, I've got I'm head of this, I've manage a team of 300 people, I do this I, then you're forcing that credibility on folks. If you can just earn it, where as you talk, people don't even know you, they've got no experience, they've got no context of you. Obviously, title gives you that. So there's a lot of CEOs that I work with. As soon as they walk in the room, they have gravitas, people respect them and they want to hear from them.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

So even the communication pieces I'm gonna talk about, often they are immune to it within reason. They still need to work on it. They can generally be immune. On the first, there's grace because they're so smart and intelligent. So the Jamie Diamonds of the world, they can have some mishaps in their communication. Yes, but people are still gonna listen to them. Totally. But if you don't have the title and you're walking into an environment and a room, people need to know can they trust you just with the way that you communicate? And too many corporate folks spend the most of their time working on the PowerPoint deck, working on the slides, working on the email, which is great. That needs to have credibility with it too. That needs to look right. But then when you're tasked to sit with a person and discuss it, are you holding that same level of gravitas that the document that you put together did? Because if you're not, and you're suddenly as you experience someone and they are, um, you know, I mean, if you gave me an introduction and I showed you what I like to call my 20-year younger version of myself before I was coached in this area, imagine if this was the experience. And an audience listening into this, if Tap introduced me and he said to me, Okay, Neil, let's have you go. I'm excited to be here. You coach some of the best in the business, you've got years of experience. So he's giving me the gravitas, the credibility. So I've got that. You've you've I've earned it by you giving me the title. And it's obviously easier when someone else does it. But then if it's turned over to me and it's my turn to talk now, and this is what I call again the 20-year younger version, what would be your feedback? Um, Tuck, yeah. Uh thanks for for kind of you know having me on. Yeah. Um, you know, I guess uh we're gonna have kind of a good conversation about um, you know, well, you don't seem credible. Exactly. Immediately you've not concise.

SPEAKER_05 11:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Why did I invite Neil to this podcast? He can't even speak clearly. I've given him all this gravitas, but he's just missed the mark.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

How do you divvy up communication in today's world? I look at it as there's interpersonal communication, real-time communication, like we're having right now, and then there's digital communication, communicating to the screen or the lens. How do you juxtapose the two? Are they the same? Are do you deploy, are there fundamentals that you can learn that will help you in both, or are they totally different?

SPEAKER_00 11:40

We look at it quite consistently. So similar to the gym. If you go to the gym regularly, you're working out your body, and there's functional fitness that okay, I'm functioning, but then there's real world fitness. So if you have to lift something, move something, how strong are you gonna be? I love to see there's this gentleman, is it Antonet? I don't know his full name, how to say it, but he dresses up as a cleaner in a gym. Yes, and then he goes around and as he's a professional body, he's a power lifter. Exactly, but he's the skinniest person you can see in those overalls. Yes. You and everyone who's judging him is saying, Yeah, there's no way you could lift this. And I love he has this mop. I don't know the weight of the mop, but it it might even be a hundred pounds. It's and he's just holding it, and as soon as he gives it to the most giant people in front of him, it just drops. Totally. And they try and lift it with one hand again and they can't do it. Then they put a second hand, I'm watching some of these strong men trying to lift it and they can't even lift that up. And then he goes and lifts that huge weight that looks impossible for someone of his size to do. So he's got real-world applications of how to lift weight and how to move. So communication is very similar. You could be good. We don't advise people similar to what you may see in other courses or programs. Oh, when you're presenting, do this. We never like to use that language. When you're communicating, own these behaviors. You should always be on it, it should be your baseline.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

Yes, there's no turning, especially when you want to advance your communication skills. You have to actually just become exactly what you want to be. And even if you fake it till you make it, you have to actually just start implementing it. And you never turn that switch off at home with your friends, you just have to make a decision to say, hey, I'm gonna communicate with less dysfunctions, I'm gonna communicate with less arms, etc.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Yes, that's such an important tool because for me in my growth, I was still having weaknesses when I would communicate professionally. I'll never forget the feedback I got probably 12, 13 years ago, where someone said to me, I was in front of 150 people running the program. I thought, yes, I own my communication skills. I'm very clear, I don't use fillers, none of it. And the person came to me during the break and they said, Can I give you some feedback? I said, Sure, yeah. Maybe a little ego coming in, defense, the amygdala firing up, saying, What's this person gonna tell me? And this was the first time I was working with this person, so I didn't have context on them. I didn't know what they were gonna say. Their first comment was, You use a word every three sentences. I said, Well, what word is that? And she said to me, You use the word literally every three sentences. Immediate reaction. There's no way I'm using the word literally, and then she said, You'll also extend that where you'll start maybe every fifth or sixth sentence with to be honest. What there's no way, as soon as the break finished, I started with that group again. I felt whoa, this immediate. The first word that I used was to be honest, team. To be honest, does that mean I was lying every other time that I was speaking? And only now I'm gonna be honest with you. Language plays certain, such an important part in how people receive you. And if you're using weak phrases or phrases that reveal something about your mindset, people will latch onto that because you're showing it up much more. Another example is people will often use an uh or an um. And I'll give feedback to people where they're not realizing it. We look at their speech wave pattern, and you can do this yourself. If you're at home, open your voice memos app, click on record, and you'll immediately see the wave graph pop up. Swipe it up so it's full screen. As you see that wave graph, have yourself talk. And what will happen is a lot of people don't realize this, but they're speaking and they're using these uhs and ums, but it sounds similar to this. And the wave graph shows it. So Taka might be saying, Um, next I've got a flight coming up. Um, and one of the things that uh I have to do um is check in three suitcases. So I'm just random talking, but the um is louder than every other word or phrase that I'm using. So I'm now forcing my audience to zone in to the um phrase rather than words I may want to emphasize. And in the wave graph on the voice notes, you can actually see where the um is a lot louder.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

I have a question about um.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:25

Where do you think it comes from? Right? So you're British, right? Obviously. You know, my wife is British, so I we have these conversations about how Europeans don't have this desire to fill the space with words. And I you may have noticed this with Americans. We're we we talk to each other, we don't care to leave each other hanging. And it's actually considered rude. If we're at the gas station, if we're on a plane, if we're on vacation, we talk to each other, and there's this psychological thing about being rude, where if somebody engages with you, we engage back no matter who they are. It's it's kind of a thing. Europeans don't do this as much, it's not this empty banter. You walk into a store and and chamani, there, you know, I doubt there'll be, you know, they'll say, Hey, welcome to this, welcome to our store. It's right, it's like it's none of this. It's like, what do you want? I don't have it. It's very straightforward. Yes. Where I wonder if had the ums are coming from a place where we feel we need psychologically to feel the audio space, the verbal space, right? We don't want to feel we is it coming from a place of altruism, or is it just is it a technical issue? Because it's so common.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

That's right. Where it starts is actually in the amygdala. Let's unpack the science behind it. So your amygdala is trying to protect you. You know, this is a doctor, I don't have to tell you everything. When the amygdala is on fire, it's always scanning throughout the day and it's always looking for safety. So one exposure is even when you see people stand, the amygdala is on, and you'll see people stand and they'll defect defend themselves, they'll cover themselves up, they'll want to put hands in pockets, they want to cover. Some people will like to hold and they want to hold their arm. They're trying to protect the vital organs. So, also when someone's communicating, silence is a threat to the amygdala. Silence feels awkward. Have you ever been in an airport, train station, somewhere, and suddenly, boom, it just goes quiet. And when it goes quiet, the amygdala goes on. Something must be wrong in this environment. So we have a rule with all our trainers that get to work with us and that we hire. We make a rule to show them the power of silence. And we say periodically, never go in to a training session. We've had some experiences, as you may have, where a trainer will go in and say, All right, folks, and this is where I use my terrible American accent because I have someone say, All right, working on it. I got it. Everybody's got to focus. Put your phones away, laptops away. You'll hear somebody saying in time, and you think, What sort of training session? Am I in boot camp of some version? No corporate training sessions should start that way, but I've seen terrible versions of it. And our training programs never start that way because it puts people in the amygdala state. You're one, you're telling me what to do. So, what the amygdala does, what we say is if you go quiet more, if somebody's busy on their phone and you just go quiet, I guarantee within about six seconds, you're gonna be on their phone, then they're gonna look up. Because their amygdala is gonna tell them something's wrong in this room, something's gone quiet. What's happened here? And in my master's program, I had to spend six years working with children. And in that time with children, I realized how do you control a group of 30, 60, 100 children? It's not when you shout, it's actually when you go quiet.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

I you know, I I as an anesthetist, right? I totally understand this. In an operating room, you know, it can be pretty loud. Sometimes there's music playing, and people are talking, there's lots of communication. And then if I am sitting on my chair just monitoring the patient, of course, not looking at stocks or playing angry birds or whatever other people think we do, the second it goes quiet, like whoa.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Everybody looks up, everybody pauses.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

And I get up, I look over the drape, making sure the surgeon is keeping the patient alive. What's going on, guys? Yes, what's happening? Isn't it interesting? The silence is it it puts you on higher learning. Exactly. I definitely connect with that.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

So guess what? When we communicate, when you go silent, it feels the amygdala says, you must not know your content. There's a threat in here. So that was the first case of using it when we were children. Two ways we pick it up. One, we the silence is uncomfortable, so then we have to look for something to say because we don't like it. The amygdala doesn't like it. But if you sit in that silence a little bit longer, your brain, your amygdala says, You're not giving me any word or phrase to use. And we often use the cheapest phrases. Um, you know, I mean, I think, kind of, sort of, all these cheap phrases, and then you lose credibility. Credibility is earned in the moments of silence, not when you're saying, uh, um, you know, I mean kind of.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

How would the prototypical successful authoritarian archetype manipulate silence in a conversation?

SPEAKER_00 21:39

In negotiation skills, you're trained to use it because whoever speaks first loses. That's a term that's used in many negotiation training sessions. And what that refers to is when the deal is placed on the table, okay, this is the number, this is the offer, this is what we want to discuss. And now you have to decide whether you accept it or not. Either party, whoever goes first, typically will lose. Why? Because that person will be, well, um, you know, I mean, I I don't know, that kind of is below what we were, you know, hoping for or anticipating. Um, you know, I'm I'm not really sure that uh, you know, and they just start revealing and just having deals at the table. Yeah. And that's the number. Our offer is 10% lower. And then it's your chance to, how are you going to respond to it? One way to do it is a facial expression. So you're reacting instead of uh um, you know, then it shows that you're uncomfortable with what they offered you. It shows that ah, now we've got you. Now we hit a sensitive point. Also, you've got to be careful because if if somebody makes you an offer, let's say a house was overpriced, and typically most people aren't sitting at a table negotiating in a house. When I bought our house, I said, I want to sit with the owner and have this conversation, which our real estate agents were both shocked with. That that's not how it works. That's unheard of. I said, Well, what do you mean that's not I want to meet the person who I'm buying the house for you? And life is a negotiation, it works however we're negotiated. Exactly. Let me sit with them, let me talk with them. I had the owner show me around the house. I had the chance to meet them, see what their thoughts were, understand how they had done things appropriately, and maybe not so appropriately. I I could learn and understand them. And then I made him the offer directly. As I'm making someone the offer, I'm also watching how are they responding? Because if you are making an offer and that offer is significantly better than they were thinking, let's say somebody is selling a million-dollar home and they know it's overpriced, so they put it for a million, but they would be happy for 800, but they priced it at that, and then you come in and say, Hey, this is too high. 900 is what we're looking at. And then the seller's response is, yeah, sure. The 900 is good. Yeah, we'll take it. Immediately the person's gonna walk away thinking, shoot, I could have why did I offer nine? Maybe I could have gone lower. What I just cheated myself here. Yeah. So sometimes you need to have a response, and the amygdala, if you just go quiet, reflect on things, even if you wow, 900. And inside you might be thinking, that's a great, I'll take it. That's a hundred thousand more than I was thinking. But we don't want to be in a position where we're being inauthentic, but training people to realize that everyone's watching your responses. So whether you're responsible responding with a facial expression that's adding to what you're saying or taking away from it, whether you're using a uh um, you know, I mean I kind of, and you're immediately showing you're unsecure with what you're saying next, you'll pull that audience or person in or you'll show them a very different sign. And the amygdala's problem is we've ended up getting bad habits when we were young. And now it's not a case that we even feel uncomfortable. It's just that that's our habit when we communicate to use very weak language. And notice this when you type emails and reports, you won't put weak language in it. You'll often go back and say, Oh, I used an I think there. No, I don't. I I think I know that that's the case, but I don't even want to use the word I know. I'll just say this number is out of range for what we were anticipating. Not I think this number is out of range. Not, you know, I kind of think, yes, maybe this is sort of not what we and when we verbally speak it, instead of it being a clear sentence such as this number is not within range, we'll say, you know, as we kind of did some analysis, you know, I don't kind of think it's it's um, you know, somewhat in range. And it's what what did that person say in that moment? So it's so important that people recognize that silence allows you to think it's what we call the visible punctuation.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Silence, the visible punctuation. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Have you ever read a run-on sentence? Yes. And what do you think of created a couple? Yes. What do you do when you read a run-on sentence? What do you immediately have to do after it?

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Oh, you you you know exactly, you know it doesn't sound right, exactly wrong.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

And then you have to reread it.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Reread, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Because you're this is not making any sense to me. What is this person saying? So you start rereading it, and then your brain says, I still can't piece this sentence together because it's a run-on, there's no commas, there's no periods. And then eventually you say, I'm not even gonna read this anymore. I give up, it's too hard. When we speak, if we don't put the commas, the periods in England we like to call it the full stop, you're going to lose the audience that you're speaking with. Because there's one of my favorite movies, Adam Sandler made that movie click with the remote control. He was given that gift. I'm not sure it could be a it's a curse, in fact, that he could fast forward, pause, and slow-mo his life. Yes, but he couldn't rewind it.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Most people, when we're speaking, if you're not getting to the point, they want to just fast forward you two times speed. And you can see all social media sites now, they have that button you can just press or swipe up, and boom, it's two times speed. We want to do that in live conversations, but we can't. Because it's just human nature. And then amplify if a person is saying, uh, um, you know, I mean, kind of as they're speaking, yeah, immediately you're gonna lose focus and energy with them. Very distracting.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

Yeah, you you really you touched on a lot of themes there, but one that I keep hearing and it's reappearing over and over in this conversation is authenticity.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Because uh if you're going to communicate, you need to stay true to yourself because that's replicable, it's replicable. How do you know if your authenticity needs to be challenged? And I say that because I I grew up on the south side of Chicago, and I was always taught, hey, be yourself. Uh, you know, I you know, you speak slang, you speak African American vernacular, yeah, that's fine, just just do you, like who cares, right? And I'm also a kid that went to board to school in the Middle East, right? So I actually had to go learn a completely different language. But growing up, I was taught, hey, be proud of who you are. That's right. Be authentic to yourself. Yes, don't co-switch.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

Right. Actually, that's a really important point you're bringing up. When you went to the Middle East, which country again? Damascus, Syria. So you're in Syria, you now have to learn the language, and I'm sure you had to learn the slang words that were there. Absolutely. And the way, the tone, the style, the element of speaking, that the formal teaching of it is it's not quite in there. Yes. So now, who are you gonna be authentic to? Are you gonna bring south side of Chicago style communication because that's who you're authentically are, or are you gonna try and fit in to the culture and the society that you're in? And that's a big question. Huge. I mean, there's no easy answer for it either. Yeah, I'll give you my reflection on it. It's all to do with what are you trying to achieve?

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

So if you're in a business setting, the goal of a business setting ultimately is influence. I'm here in business to influence you, to take a decision, to buy something, to choose something, to move forward with something. So generally in business, we're we're trying to have a level of influence with everyone we interact with and who we communicate with. So now if you're in a different culture and a society, you could say, I want to do me, but if they can't even process what you're doing and saying, if they can't understand you, it's not going to work.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Totally. This is something that I realized very early on was that actually in America, okay. So I have this, you have this geographic location of wherever you're from. Right. And they speak a certain type of way, they use slang words. But if you ever want to get out of that, if you want to excel, you're gonna have to learn what I like to call the lingua franca.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

I've been heard of that. Well, tell me.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

It's the it's basically the concept of throughout ancient times, there was always one language that was used that more if it maybe it was Persian. Persian was a big lingua franca, maybe it was Arabic. Now it's English, right? Some may say Mandarin, but that's geographically isolated. It's English right now. Where if you learn how to speak this language, you're gonna be able to talk to the vast majority of people. Now, that's an actual language, but they're also variances in that language, the culture of that language, right? Because if you learned, you know, how to speak English in um, you know, uh down south, yes, it might not apply if you go to New York, right? Or if you go to Cali, and vice versa. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

So I am seeing in all my travels in America though, that the accents that used to be there, sometimes I'll I'll laugh with folks and they'll say, what does American sound like to you? And in my head, when I think of American, you know, I'm kind of like trying. Yeah. And one of the things that I kind of want to speak on, and it can go very nasally in certain areas, but then I could really have a draw and have people sort of speak on.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

That's pretty good, actually. That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Down here in Texas. I have a terrible accent, but I'm gonna try to fall, and if we can do it, you have all these accents that go around. Yeah, something's changed though. Most corporate organizations have offices everywhere, and so it's balanced out for the most part.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

There are cultural tendencies, but accents are changing. Yes. And so something fascinating on what you're saying is that level of influence, you said, if you stick to what you were doing and you try and apply that authenticity to another environment, yes, you can try and be authentic, but it's not going to resonate. Yes. It's not going to work.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

It actually may be on strategic communication.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

That's right. And that's why I've heard leaders who I coach, they'll say, Oh, with my team, I can be a certain way because they're with me, they get me. And this is some very, very senior people in industry that move markets when they communicate, and they'll go to a new culture. A lot of folks are going to the Middle East right now. Business is booming there, there's a lot of potential there. And culturally, it's different. How you hold yourself, you can't be a certain way where you are with your team if you want to have that same level of influence. We're not asking people to not be inauthentic. What we're asking for is is this style, is this language going to work here? Totally. And the simple way to refer to it is appearance. If you're going to go to the beach, you can I find this fascinating that men and women will wear shorts, and especially if you're going to Europe, then what men choose to wear on their bottoms, hate to get graphic, but it's very short, and it just doesn't feel right. Yeah. In America and the UK, we'll wear shorts. Yeah. But the more European I get, I see it's it's for men, they'll wear some very short trunks that you wouldn't be seen wearing. I'm not sure if we can call them trunks, by the way. Okay. All right, this is kind of what they're speedos. All right, speedoes. I'm glad you said it first. If you're a man wearing speedos, you you wouldn't go around the streets wearing that. But it's totally fine and accepted that people can be in their underwear at the beach. Totally. But we know that same attire which I'm replicating to your language, your tonality, your style, it can work at the beach. Totally. But it's not going to work in a business saying. I'll never forget I showed up in Miami, I'm doing a training session in Miami, and outside the training building, I'm seeing people in bikinis and the Speedos, and my brain is saying, Where on earth am I? I'm used to being in New York, San Francisco, where okay, there's certain dress attire and styles that you have. But this shocked me the first time I trained in Miami. That wait, there's a complete mix of appearances that you can have. Now, when I got into the training room, everyone was smartly dressed or smart casual. I didn't see any bikinis or videos there. Yes, yes. But if it's all about exactly, and so then it's accepted. So you have to match the environment that you're working in. You as a person have to realize, yes, I'm authentic in this environment. I can still be authentic in this environment too.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Now you can have nuances that make you outside of what that norm is. You can dress a certain way. I was excited to see the Delta CEO in their big town hall that they did in Las Vegas and they put on every plane. I'm a huge Delta fan, by the way. Love Delta. Fly Delta really. They can sponsor the show if they like sponsor.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Please, I love Delta.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Delta's amazing. I look, I try I've tried other airlines, and even I've I've sat in first class to see let me get the first class experience, and I'm shocked that you don't even get a bottle of water. Oh my god. Yeah. You the snacks that they give you are the poorest of quality. And you just feel this is not what I expect if you're sitting in a certain seat. So with Delta, they play this video and they have these videos available of the actual culture of Delta. And I love watching it. And so the CEO's on stage and he's wearing Nike shoes instead of dress shoes as part of his look. And I thought, yes, a CEO, big organization, and they're choosing to change the style that they can wear, some different shoes rather than standard black-brown shoes that everyone has been wearing. That's a unique style that you can add to it. If you try and do that with communication, it can work. But most of where communication is going today is not that you're adding more to it, it's in fact that you're saying less. Interesting. Even TV, movie, and shows now, they're designed in the same light. The dialogue that used to be there is a lot less than what it is today.

SPEAKER_02 36:28

So it goes back to your point of your one of your C's of concise.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Concise and clearness to what you're saying. Yeah. That's not changing. Yeah. I do not see that going anywhere else.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

So maintaining, you can't make, you're saying you can maintain an authenticity, but you have to be willing to expand your mindset. Exactly. I remember that style. Going to, when I first went to college, you know, again, I was coming from the south side of Chicago. I had a deep, I mean, hood accent. Okay. Like it's it's funny. I was in, I was in Englewood in Chicago at a farmer's market, and a lady was selling something, and she asked me where I was from. Right. And I was like, I grew up down the street. And she said, No, you didn't. You didn't grow up over here. And it blew my mind. But I also thought about it. It was a lot of work that went into that, right? Um, because early on when I went to college, I would talk to other black people. Now, these people came from different socioeconomic backgrounds than I did. Okay. They were middle class, you know, they had went to nice schools. And they would often say, What did you say? Say it again.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

I've had that so often.

SPEAKER_02 37:33

So often, and it blew my mind because these were black people. Right. And they were from the Chicagoland area, but they couldn't understand me. So having that experience of understanding.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Did you feel inauthentic then when that took place?

SPEAKER_02 37:47

You know, because I had already been to boarding school in the Middle East and I spoke Arabic, I understood that there was no, that's the ultimate code switching. I didn't have a problem with code switching.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Because I understood if I speak a different language, that's the epitome of code switching. So I said, wow, I can speak classical Arabic. I can write, read classical Arabic. And in English, I'm barely making it. So I went and did the most, I mean, I was ridiculed by all of my friends, but I joined this, it's called SOAR. It was student orientation, advisement, and registration. And these are the very excited people that you see on the campus, other students that are like, welcome to SIU, welcome to college freshman. You know, and that they have signs, but one of the things that they make you do is give tours. And then you have to practice your practice. And that that I gave tours all summer. I was the main tour guy.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

And it forced me to articulate myself aloud because I realized I couldn't really speak.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

100%.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

Which was nuts, by the way. It was nuts. And I never felt I was being inauthentic because if you want to get to where you envision, you got you where you are right now, you have to make some changes.

SPEAKER_04 39:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

Totally. So yeah, I really, I really feel, feel you when you you you bring up the authenticity, but understanding that authenticity shouldn't hold you back.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

That's right. And we want to be able to be ourselves. So similar to your point, when I came to America almost 20 years ago now, and I still do this today, and I have to be conscious of it, I'll go up to someone. Now be honest with me. Tell me if you understand what I'm about to say. So if I went up to you and say, Can I have a bottle of water, please? Do you know what I just said? Now you you your wife is British, so you may understand it. What did I say?

SPEAKER_02 39:45

Can I have a bottle of water, please? Yes. But I might not if you would have told my father that. He would have said what? He would have said, You're talking too fast. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Slow down. And I'm just saying, I'll just go up in the Starbucks, wherever, and I'll just say, Can I just have a bottle of water, please? And they'll just go. Their brain just freeze. I just watched them. They're like, You want me to put this? And then I realize, shoot, Neil, what is it? Yeah. And then I exactly they just freeze and they say, What? And I say, Can I just have a bottle of water, please? And they'll they'll freeze again and say, I'm not, and then I realize, Neil, say it properly for here. And then I'll say, Can I have a bottle of water, please? And then I'll say that, and then I'll go, Oh, you want a bottle of water? Sure. And but I realized, yes, I couldn't be my authentic British South. Yes. And if there's British people listening, they'll know exactly what region I'm from in the UK. Sounding that way. Yes, there's nuances to everything. That's not serving me in this environment. I'm forcing people to then respond back. So even when I communicate, I've had to morph certain words. I want to say router, but nobody in America says router. They'll say router.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

Router.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Yeah. And my brain says, No, I want to say the way I say it. Yes. But I know if I do that, I'm offsetting the message where I'm forcing my audience to now think, oh, what word did Neil use? Now they've their brain has already gone off on a tangent.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:16

I've already moved forward with my sentences and now they're behind.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Yeah. You're on the phone with Comcast and you're using Rooter. You're speaking to a lady that just wants to go home and get to her kids. And you're wasting her time by playing your uh cultural relevancy.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

That's right. Language, tone, style, it's going to be cultural, but you have to identify where am I about to have influence in this next conversation? Do I want to adjust or slightly modify so that the audience's reception of what I'm saying is at the highest level it can be.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Do you want to win?

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Do you want to win?

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

And that's I think that's a question that we have to ask, especially uh when we're trying to be authentic. And not just, not just depending on what background you're coming from, but when you're trying to do new things.

SPEAKER_03 42:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

This this podcast has been something where I've had to get on on camera more. And it forces you to really think about how to effectively communicate. And you can say, hey, well, I'm just gonna do it how I want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:17

That doesn't mean anything if that's not the way that is the winning method. If that's not the way of the winning method, then you're just wasting your time.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Unless, are you open to have a live coaching right now?

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Yeah, I guess so. Why not? Ah, yeah, I'll do it.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

I'm sensing your amygdala is turning on right now saying, What's Neil about to do with me?

SPEAKER_02 42:39

I'm going to get silent. Yes. That's what you're asking. I might be quiet.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

One thing to work on, and you're a very good communicator. There are always areas that we can work on. And we often like to say when you look at the range of behaviors, there's about six behaviors that we cover. So everything from eye contact, facial expressions, gestures, my posture, my tone of voice. And the last one we talk about is dysfluencies. Now, disfluencies, when you communicate, most people don't realize they're even using it, but it's making you disfluent in how you approach yourself. And the phrase comes from speech language pathology, credit to my wife. She has taught me a lot of these areas where as you communicate, we don't even realize that we're struggling for a word. We're trying to find that word, but we've got habits that have made us speak that way. In speech language pathology, they'll observe someone where when they're struggling to articulate, maybe it's due to an injury, there's a struggle they're having, then they'll try and fill that space where they're searching and they'll become dysfluent. And when you become disfluent, you'll use disfluencies such as the you know, the kind of the I think. Now, most people in this world haven't had some severe situation. them to truly medically become dysfluent because of something inside their body. They've just learned habits to become that way. So the way on anyone, the first behavior that we look at for communication is a combination of disfluencies first and eye contact. Those are the two primary ones. So eye contact is an example, you're very good at keeping it, but if you see people where their eyes dart around a lot when they're talking, it can be very unnerving to a person. Yeah. Even with animals, a lot of people have dogs and you can tell with your dog when your dog is guilty because your dog doesn't want to give you eye contact. If a dog's chewed up something in the home I'm fascinated that dog's eyes are down the dog is not looking and they're looking at the side I find it fascinating that every animal mostly if they're conscious of other humans they know what they're doing and they feel guilt. So as human beings when we're with someone and if our eyes are darting around a lot it shows nervous energy. Doesn't matter how on point I am with my behaviors, if my eye contact is darting around, I'm going to lose you as an audience. Yes. Amplify that with the disfluencies of what you're saying people get very distracted now. And the percentage that we're looking for of usage of words that are disfluent fillers or weak phrases should be of all conversing when you're speaking should be less than 3%. Our target is less than two but on average if you can get to less than three you're in the top two percent of communicators in the world most people are at about 15% they don't realize and we look at two metrics as a combo of this which fillers which weak words there are repetitions that go into that formula too but we don't focus on it too much. Some people have some status some people repeat a phrase a certain time if it's over a certain percentage we focus on it. The primary two are your weak words and your fillers and our goal we have a training software our Ekios AI and it analyzes everyone's communication. And so we can record anyone and immediately we'll show you what percentage of your words are weak and fillers. Are people surprised 100% they don't realize when they see oh my gosh I said like 27 times I said um 42 times in that three minute conversation how? And then when you play and you show them the transcript they immediately look at it and they realize okay I need to fix this. The amygdala again wants to stick and do what it has always done. It loves patterns it loves to do what it's done. It doesn't want to change that much. So when you give somebody feedback and you say hey you need to do better with your communication most people's response is yeah sure I'll work on it. But they don't really know what to focus on. When we show them the data and the stats often a person we don't have to say much we say let's just look at your communication resume. Let's see what your stats and data looks like. A person sees it and then they say help me. Yeah fix me.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

If you have the data you would change the behavior.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

Exactly when you get a blood report yeah and you see your liver panels are off you then say I need to make a change here.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

Aura rig is a big one. Exactly just knowing how you're sleeping at night has changed my life. Wow and I look at the data and you correlate it with your behavior and the activities and what do you do three hours before you went to sleep etc etc and you see it and you say wow I need to make an adjustment I love it.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

Yeah. And it's the same in communication I wish we had a device I've dreamed of working on this that would be on you that every time you used for example a uh or an um it would give you a minor electric shock.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

We gotta ask Elon to add that to the Neuralink.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Yeah exactly well the neuralink's just going to remove those words I think you're not even going to need to use them because it's just going to eliminate them out. That's right. When ChatGPT came out it wasn't using in the voice mode when it was when you speak to AI there were no disfluencies in there. So then they said oh but this now sounds too robotic so let's go ahead and put them in I cannot stand that.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

I disapprove of that rule completely here's why we do not need to accept I hopefully if we were to go back and my team analyzed this recording and they said Neil let's see how you did on this podcast and my team would review it with me and they would show me how many Urs ums you know's and I think kind of did I use now it will flag some because I'm using it as an example but I should be at that 0% with some of them. There are certain phrases such as so they're acceptable periodically but again it can't be every sentence so what we're doing with AI, it's still below the 3% by the way so if you have a voice chat with AI, they'll use disfluencies because they're trying to make it sound more human. Yes. But they're way below 3% even at 1% and that's where we should be as humans where's a good way to look at this so if I was to coach you now and give you an example if there's an actor on any movie or TV show you will see that their disfluencies are way below 1% throughout an entire movie or show. As they're acting exactly the directors the script writers they will not allow them to use it. The only time they allow them to use it is when they're showing a character weakness or a flaw or a head injury yes okay that's where it can creep in as well for sure in that moment where a person's using it then it shows weakness an amazing show which fully allowed the bandwidth of disfluencies to raise at that 3% level above one show the only show that's ever done it that I've watched I'd love to hear if there's more Succession have you ever seen Succession every single episode masterpiece. I binge watched it after coming off a trip I saw it in the plane I said this is actually pretty cool so good. There's one character in there do you know which character uses disfluencies above and beyond um Macaulay Calkin's brother he sometimes does but he's not a character. It's the cousin cousin Greg oh Greg yes cousin Greg um like you know so I was kind of like wondering and his character became something entertaining that people loved watching because they looked at him and almost felt sorry for him and found a liking towards him but no one would ever say hey you need to model yourself on cousin Greg. Yes we use it as an example of weakness I've never seen directors allow him to go way above the 3% threshold.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

And he is constantly um you know so I was kind of thinking if I could kind of like you know maybe is now kind of the right time to you know ask if you know if we could kind of get that you know promotion.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

And he's intentionally supposed to be a weak character.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

Yes wow that's so we're watching it we're seeing it culture society is trying to show us weak natures weak behaviors these are the weak characters that we are yes but then you watch other shows suits Harvey Specter so many people I've heard oh I'd love to speak such as Harvey Specter guess what Harvey Specter doesn't use any disfluencies then you see billions the show Axel boom no disfluencies you will see every TV show where they want you to emulate a persona or a personality this is how you should who you should look to to communicate and I know this is controversial and a person that I knew was really intelligent when they articulate themselves is the is the president.

SPEAKER_02 51:47

Right he he I've never really heard him use disluences.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

He does use some he does his language though is not over verbose he will simplify his language and just say what he wants to say. He's the first president that I've seen that I've I've not seen a president when you saw Gaza Palestine Israel and they were looking for a ceasefire I forget the exact language that Trump used but Trump came off the helicopter he was about to go on the helicopter and they ask him there was a ceasefire they weren't supposed to fire and he goes yes I'm disappointed and they don't know what the f they're doing and he just goes out and he swears and the reason for that was he's just saying what he feels in the shortest way. Yes and he'll consistently do that. Yes. Sometimes his language though doesn't make sense he'll say a sentence and you wonder I'm not sure quite what he meant there but he just says it and it's somewhat accepted.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

Here's why though his style and language has won over a nation where they voted for him. And I go back to the 2016 election why did Trump beat Hillary Clinton and in my book that I'm in the process of writing I have this as a section and a chapter. Please tell and it's all about content and how you add the content into the narrative of what you're saying. Mamdani of New York now he's done the exact same playbook he's copied versions of what Trump's done in order to beat the population or vote of where they'll usually go. The science behind it is quite simple. What language are you using where people are absorbing it and then repeating it to other people if your message isn't clear concise and credible enough that a person absorbs, digests and then shares it with other people you haven't done a good enough job. Wow that is so brilliant so look at Hillary Clinton look at Trump. So if I asked you in 2016 so we're 10 years out from that now can you remember what Trump said he was going to do if elected back then in 2016 give me give me two or three things oh build a wall build a wall what else build a wall uh the ban he's gonna ban immigrants from coming here right immigrants yeah can we do a third one I'm going back to the archives now yes Obamacare oh yeah he was gonna repeal he was gonna repeal Obamacare drain the swamp whatever that means yes yes yes yes yes whatever the phrasing means build a wall was the one that was so drain a swamp build a wall and lock her up yes yes so do you hear these phrases in the ramp that was 2016 and we still remember it to this day that these are some of his phrases there's not a lot of depth behind it but he managed to get a following that people said I like where he's going because it's simplified language and direction. Wow that's so brilliant so true and obvious when you say it now let's do the assessment Hillary Clinton tell me three things that Hillary Clinton said she was going to do if elected the silence says everything doesn't it lock lock president you know lock Trump up I don't know I can't remember she had a two page manifesto in newspapers showing what she was going to do she was just saying I'm not I'm not Trump Trump.

SPEAKER_02 55:15

Yeah you don't want to vote for him but there was nothing substantial that people could latch on to that said I want to vote for him you know what's even crazier is I remember the 2008 campaign Obama's campaign and I remember the DNC convention and you have to contextualize this where we have the uh affordable care out and and Obama is trying to sell it he's trying to sell nobody really knows what the hell is going on with it what it does what are we gonna pay how it's gonna work and I remember uh President Clinton Bill Clinton getting up there at the convention and he just laid it out wow with simplicity he said these are what your premiums are going to be these are going if you have comorbidities this is what it means and it was and it was short it was seven minutes I remember it being short but it was just sweet he nailed it and I remember thinking to myself wow I understand the Affordable Care Act now makes sense and then that's 2008 right so I remember you know that was I remember that still which is insane.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

Isn't that interesting if there's simplified content people can digest it but what does a lot of the corporate world do? Let me pack slide decks with as much content and information as possible so that you'll try and see how smart I am. Yes but what everyone you can do that because there are a huge percentage of the population that like to look at the details of course there is you need those details when it's your turn to talk how do you give the simplified version so that they can ultimately get to the best part of any conversation they can start asking questions.

SPEAKER_02 56:55

You know to add on to that you know I met Hillary Clinton the first time I met her wow I was having a conversation with her and I I can never forget how warm the embrace was interesting when I when I walked up to her I felt as though she had known me for a long time and we were friends just catching trait yes so to say I'm saying that to say that she's no bum. She's talented she's she's an all-star when it comes she's an all-star policy she's a top level politician right yeah she has that factor where she can make you feel that's right that you all have been good friends for years that's how she made me she was so warm yes so to see that flip exactly her communication skill is just very powerful.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

Yes and this is where I would have been excited to see a female president come in for what it stands for if they're qualified if they've got the skills to do it and when you look at a lot of presidents recently they're just one person and it's how they impact the team that's there. What did Biden get slated for during his term most recent term was because where was he? Now that Trump's in in power you can see a message coming out every day sometimes multiple times a day Trump said this Trump's doing this Trump's doing this maybe once every two months I remember an article coming out or a pop-up come out on my phone saying Bible they hit him they hid him yeah so then who's no communication at all which is the probably the worst communication 100% so as a leader we see this in organizations where how often are you communicating? And there's some leaders that bury themselves maybe once a year they show up and do a town hall and then it's disconnected from where the audience is they don't even meet the rest of the team there's no presence of what they're doing or vision or saying look at the banks today who's the CEO of JP Morgan Chase Jamie Diamond I I can't I have to look it up of the other banks if I went out and did a poll today and said can you tell me the CEO of Bank of America exactly yeah now of course he's been doing it for a number of years but there's he grew up in Queens New York I believe it was Jackson Heights in New York somewhere in that area and his style is very natural and conversational he's not trying to do verbose corporate speak. Now anyone paying attention to this this does not mean you have to dumb down your tone or your style not at all you can still speak with the intelligence that you know how to speak with it's just making sure that there's clarity to your message at the end and consistently if you don't have that you're gonna lose the audience if you're speaking with jargons verbose phrases that people aren't understanding you're losing your audience. You know speaking of that we talk about artist so I'm gonna coach you in the moment yes actually coach we we skipped that coach I mean there's so many things percolating in my brain from this conversation I love we can go all types of directions let's go let's go every time you're about to speak every time you're about to ask a question or reflect back on what you're thinking sometimes and we can look at this in the data you're starting your statements with a you know phrase and that you know phrase or um any version of that so any disfluency that you're about to use it will typically happen at the beginning of your sentence because you're still trying to formulate what you're thinking it's in your head you're putting the words together we like to call it your kitchen of words and language you're prepping up and you're cooking up a sentence you're not cooking up a soup or a pizza you're cooking up a sentence so the question is what ingredients are in your kitchen that you're going to use if you if I go to your kitchen which I'm sure it's very clean healthy ingredients but if I showed up in your kitchen and I saw that and I'm a good chef but you have really poor quality ingredients no matter what I'm making it's not going to be a good dish because there's cheap quality terrible processed ingredients. It's the same way with your language if you're communicating and in your kitchen of words and ingredients when we open the cupboards it's terrible weak phrases you're gonna end up using that and it's gonna be a very poor sentence so before you even start let's remove these passive weak phrases lean into the silence and only use real words and I might give you a signal to just pause there as a reminder to the amygdala lean into the silence embrace it start to feel comfortable with it so you were going to ask me a question which I hope you haven't forgotten now which can happen no I'm what were you gonna say what you're saying is so even then did you feel some of those your brain wanted to just say something and you were suppressing it which is good let's see and by the way respect and kudos to you there are so many podcasts that I don't go on purely because the hosts know that their weak communication is going to show up and then what if I'm gonna say something on it is is hard. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:25

And I I have to be respectful not to give feedback unless they want me to give feedback but this is why a lot of people that I'm around they go quiet because they know that I'm gonna be observing and watching everything they do and say I don't mean to oh no you're a tough friend to have you are exactly uh greatness is iterative in your book you you're gonna make sure that you communicate wisely and well because you want the best of your friends exactly I want the people around me to know that.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:52

Yes and that's why I don't have a lot of friends because no one wants to be coached in every second every time we are you that annoying I don't say it but they just more is what it is all people I've worked with they said Neil as soon as I just go around you I become hyper focused and sensitive they just don't I don't even need to say anything. Yes they just know I'm aware of what they're doing and saying so now as you're going to speak ask say things just use that pause there you don't need any other phrase before it feel start to feel comfortable with the silence go ahead I'm gonna try my best to be as un American in my communication as by the way no we've got to fix that it's not just American I feel like a British British do it as well British they're terrible like literally so I was like literally trying to you know basically I was trying they do it too every single language does it in in Japan they use the um phrase is ano in Mandarin in Chinese languages there's one word I can't use but they use a word to fill the space in Spanish in Italian there's always a phrase that people are using in French it's they'll extend the uh as they speak it yes so it's not one country or region it's pu every human being because the amygdala is uncomfortable with silence so just lean into that silence I'm gonna take this conversation in a a different direction slightly and talk about AI because you brought it up so artificial intelligence we have chat GPT helping us communicate more effectively it's proofreading it's rewriting our our emails right can we trust it we've been using it for I've been using it religiously for the past year.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:45

I mean I am addicted to it okay I love me a chatbot what are some of the nuances in communication that these chatbots these LLMs are getting wrong and how do we I guess effectively use them better because they're not going anywhere. Yes and I know you you are a big fan of 100% artificial intelligence.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

You've incorporated into your your business your coaching yeah what are your thoughts on that AI is a piece that everyone has been wondering when it would happen but we're now living in it. We should be so excited that and scared at the same time of course the movies we watched when we were young they're giving us the potential of what we saw that would be cool if we had it it's here today so I have two areas of focus one humans today everyone should realize they're not as clear as they could be with what they're thinking and doing when the AI spits out their thought process when they input all the details in and you see it you say yes how does it know me that's clearer than I was trying to speak it. Yes that's the message that's there. These models are tuned to be the very best version of you and of course as they start They weren't amazing. They were phenomenal at the first instance. They're just getting stronger and stronger. The challenge that I have with people is they don't know how to use it to get the most out of it. When they do use it, there's this, oh, now it's gone off tangent. I might as well just do it myself. I had a call this week with a particular fund that they're trying to grow their team and sales team. So the head person who's running this group of 10 people, they get on the call with me and they're trying to articulate what they want the individuals to do going into the next year, what their targets are. So I'm hearing them speak and their mindset, because they've got so much going on inside their heads, they're this way, they're that way, they're they're speaking on one piece, they're on the next piece, but they need to do this, they need to focus on region. But I need them also, they have a relationship with this investor, so I need them to focus on this. And it's so wide. Yeah. And I'm hearing it, I'm trying to be my own LLM to figure out what is this person saying? Yes. What direction? How am I going to lead this group? Totally. I've got a two-day training session that I'm going to do with that group. I need to be prepared for this. And I'm not getting clarity on what they need to do. So I said to them, I'm going to open Chat GPT and I just want you to talk. I just want you to explain. And I go first and I say, Hi chat, I'm with you with this company. I'm with this person. I name them. We're going through a conversation where I need you to help me get to this outcome. I just talk to it as a human being. I'm not trying to talk to it as get flustered that it's AI, I have to speak to it a certain way. Don't even try. It's built on human intelligence. Totally. So just be a human with it. And we just go on a narrative with ChatGPT as an example. And we'll just say, we're trying to do this. We want every individual in the region to have this, to have that. Then as the person finishes, I'll wrap up and I'll say, now that you've heard all of this, can you first give me the master prompt for this so that we can clarify what we're trying to do? And then you can give me a sample of what the output of a job description and role should be. I want to be able to see a sample of the headings that we could use. So I'm talking to it as I would a human.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:21

Boom, off it goes. It outputs all this information. The person looks at it and says, Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to say, but I didn't know how to distill it. And it's captured all the names, all the people, all the details that I, as a human, couldn't have done by just trying to walk away and type it. Yes. If AI is not part of every single discussion and conversation you're having, you are missing out on one of the most intelligent team members you could have ever hired. And most of these models are now$25 a month.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:53

You should be hitting the dictaphone button, hitting the record button, having them listen to it, whatever conversation it is, and then they're part of the discussion.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:02

So you don't really look at it as replacing communication. You look at AI as an enhancement for communication.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:12

100%. And it should be a voice in the room. It should be someone that you're listening to and saying, Let me get your opinion. Because again, it's tuned and wired to be the best version of humans that it can be. So for example, we work with multiple funds and hedge funds across the world. All of them sit together in some version of an investment committee. Sometimes it's a small group, sometimes it's a bigger group, and they sit around discussing this is our investment thesis in these sectors, in these companies, in these names that we need to be investing in. And then what they'll do is they'll make a decision to say, what direction should we go in? Should we buy it? Should we sell it? What should we do? Should we hold it? Why not have a tuned-up model of AI that sits in the room with you having that conversation? It's not going to make the decision. We don't encourage funds to say, yes, go ahead and make that investment. What do you think we should do? And we're just going to follow you. Just as you have five team members on the investment committee, add a sixth person that's trained on everything from an investment process and you as a fund, so then it knows how to guide you and give you feedback.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:28

And I'm sure this is again uh it's it's a tool, it's a a teammate as you describe, someone to help you with your business. In terms of one of the things of this podcast is building your confidence, it's the pursuit of masculine excellence. And men are supposed to be confident. That's right. What tools can young men or men in general deploy in their conversations that will help them maintain agency when they communicate with the world? If they struggle with confidence.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:04

Every person has to be knowing the patterns of how they speak. Just as you know when you look in the mirror, I'm wearing this style, oh, my hair's out, oh, my collar's off, you would adjust it. We don't spend enough time doing that on what you're saying in a conversation. You get to do it in email or in text because you're seeing the the words before you hit the sand button. But in communication, often it's not the case, it's just coming out. So the number one skill set that everyone should be doing is recording themselves at least once a week. And the easiest way to do that is with Chat GPT or any AI tool where you, if you're not willing to record yourself in a video, when you have a chat with your AI tool, don't just type, hit the dictaphone button and speak to it. Then once you're done, you'll see the transcript of everything you said. Some of these AI tools put every phrase, wording that you used, and you can see how disjointed or connected your sentences were.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:06

So you're if you're a person, you're getting feedback from a universe where people you start talking and 10 seconds in, they just have the phone, they look away, they walk away. That's a clip. And that's a person that you need to work on effectively and 100% communicating with confidence. Yes. So you can do this with AI. Yes. With chat with a chatbot.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:26

You can do it with a chat. Just by putting in your words, you'll start to see how you're communicating. I would encourage use the voice members app or dictaphone app on any phone, record that and record a video of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:38

There are on all social media sites, there's less than 5%, I believe the stats are, that are actual contributors. The rest are watching it. So that means most people aren't tuned in to how they communicate. So it's important that we record ourselves to watch it. Once you do look at it through that lens, you can count it for yourself. If you see passive phrases, weak phrases peppered in every third, fourth, fifth word, you've probably got disfluencies at the rate of 10 to 15% of your dialogue. That should come down immediately. Yes. If you film yourself and you see your eyes are darting away as you're looking, you got to work on your eye contact. If you record yourself and you see that your hands are closed off a lot of the time, you got to start opening those hands up, showing that you're more open in conversations. If you're posture and you're looking as though you're slouching or you can't be bothered, you'll see that in videos and where you are.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:36

You can make an adjustment. I mean, seeing yourself speak or podcast or what have you, I mean, it is sometimes, especially in the beginning, it's been painful because you see, like, oh my God, look at that way I was just slouching over or way I was talking, or my belly is out. I mean, you just go so crazy. You're in shape. You don't need to worry about it. Plus, you can if you're not conscientious of how you present yourself, you can't look as though you are not in shape.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:02

Yes. And this is where everyone is watching you with their own camera lens. So many people come to us and they say, I don't want to be on camera. And I say, Do you realize that everyone has two cameras that they're looking at you with? Totally. They're judging you, they're making an assumption. Great point. But you have no idea what they're seeing because you're inside. Why not see what they're seeing? And then we almost want to be the ostrich or pigeon nature where I don't want to see, I don't want to look. And that's not where we should be. We should be fully open to everyone seeing this, let me see it too.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:36

It's great advice, Neil. It's it's been so good. Any parting words that you would like to lead us with?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:46

For anyone watching this, if you're someone that wants to grow in your career, in your relationships, wherever you are, if you don't work on your verbal communication, it will always be something that holds you back. And the biggest advice I can give you, as we've mentioned, watch, observe, record yourself, and start to get comfortable with the silence. The more you can sit in silence, even in the most uncomfortable scenarios or situations, the world will gravitate to want to listen to you more. Rather than um, you know, kind of speaking as fast and um messy. Yes, nobody wants to have that experience. It's the equivalent of where would you rather eat? At a beautiful Michelin star restaurant where everything from the decor, the tables, the how people bring out the food to you, it's just so delicately done. Or one of those incredibly fast food places, things are slapped on the table, you see the dirt everywhere, it's not cleaned up enough, it's fast, you're getting food, but it's not what people want. And can your language and communication be the best quality it possibly can?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:03

Couldn't have said it better. I thank you so much for making so much effort to get here. I, you know, I really appreciate everything that that you did to meet us here in Austin and record in our beautiful studio. Wonderful studio, yeah. So thank you so much. We have to do it again. My mind is still percolating, and you have to test me to make sure that I'm still following up on your coaching 100% on the next podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:28

Let's do it soon. Thank you. Thanks again, man.