#25 I GREW UP THINKING HUNTERS WERE PSYCHOPATHS - So I Went Hunting With One

I didn't grow up hunting. Growing up on the South Side of Chicago, it just wasn't part of my world. But when I moved to Texas, something shifted — and I decided to try it. What I didn't know was that my first real hunting experience would put me in the field with one of the best guides in the world. That weekend changed everything I thought I knew about hunters, about the outdoors, and about men.

In this episode of The Alpha Renaissance, Tye Green breaks down the philosophy behind ethical hunting, what 30+ years in the wild teaches a man about patience, discipline, and ego, and why the primal instinct to hunt never left any of us — we've just been conditioned to suppress it. From shooting his first deer at six years old, to packing out a 700-pound elk alone in the Colorado mountains, to managing a South Texas ranch for 13 years, Tye is the real deal. What he said about masculinity, aggression, spirituality, and finding God in the wild will stay with you long after this episode ends.

0:00 I Grew Up Thinking Hunters Were Psychopaths
4:20 How Tye Became the Best Hunting Guide in the World
9:10 From Fly Fishing Colorado to Full-Time Guide
14:30 What His Dad Taught Him in the Deer Stand
20:00 He Shot His First Deer at Six Years Old
24:15 Why Guiding Changed Everything: Living Through Others' Success
29:00 Bow Hunting vs. Rifle Hunting: The Real Difference
34:10 Understanding the Elk Rut and How Guides Find Animals
39:30 What Trophy Hunting Actually Means
44:00 Managing a Ranch Is a 10-Year Commitment
48:20 Packing Out a 700-Pound Elk Alone in the Mountains
53:45 Finding God in the Wild
57:30 Men, Aggression and the Need for a Physical Outlet
1:00:00 What the City Kid Finally Understood

#TheAlphaRenaissance #TyeGreen #HuntingLife #HuntingGuide #ElkHunting #WhitetailDeer #BowHunting #HuntingPhilosophy #MasculinityMatters #Manhood #SelfImprovement #Outdoors #WildlifeManagement #HuntingAndFishing #TexasHunting #ColoradoHunting #DeerManagement #SouthTexasHunting #HillCountry #EthicalHunting #FlyFishing #HuntingCulture #PrimalInstinct #MenAndNature #OutdoorLife #Brotherhood #Discipline #ChicagoToColorado #CityKidGoesHunting #chicago #WhatHuntingTeachesMen#TheAlphaRenaissancePodcast #AlphaRenaissancePodcast #motivational

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

That drive, that sort of primal instinct to hunt, I think it's in every one of us. I shot my first deer when I was six years old. You can do catch and release fishing. Can't do catch and release hunting. It there there is no taking it back. Once that gun goes off, man, the decision's made. It doesn't necessarily have to be where you're told it is.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

It's great.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

It's where you find it. Wow. And as long as it grounds you, and as long as it keeps you being good to people and making good decisions, you know, hang on to it. I'd rather have a man sitting on the bank of a river thinking about God than sitting in a church pew on Sunday thinking about fishing.

SPEAKER_03 0:42

Well, Ty, I'm very happy to have you on. Thank you, Tech. Appreciate it. I had the honor and pleasure to go to one of the most uh I would say illustrious hunting clubs I've ever been to. And uh you were my guide. And I had no idea that I was with one of the best hunters, best hunting guides in the world. I know you won't say that, but many people will. I've been told by a couple of people that you are the the Michael Jordan of hunting.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Well, I don't know. It's big shoes to fill. I I don't know. I um I certainly enjoy it. I mean, the guiding for me has been something that has really sort of rejuvenated my hunting career. Uh and it, you know, for a while now. Uh, you know, hunting for yourself and and and it fulfills something in you to a point, and then you get to a point where it's like, okay, where else can I take this? And it started for me fly fish guiding in Colorado. And and that started me thinking, man, you know what? This this is what I'm kind of meant to do. And so meeting new people every day, learning that I had sort of the right personality for it, you know, you got to be a little malleable. You've got to be able to adjust your personality to whoever you're with that day. And uh it just gave me so much fulfillment teaching others and showing others how to cast a fly rod. You know, it used to get people everywhere from guys who had never grabbed, touched a fly rod to people who have been doing it for years and years and years. And uh it was just interesting to me to see the enjoyment that people get from all spectrums. And it's just got to focus on what they need to learn that day and do your best to try to teach them that.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

I think it's important to contextualize. Well, you know, one of the things I found really remarkable about you was this philosophy that you had. Not only did you have the skill, the experience, but you had a philosophy about you that I really wanted people to share because it was very in tune with finding yourself, centering yourself, being present in the moment. That's something that I really learned from you. And also, you know, when you speak about being a guy, it's not, it's not like you're not like a trip advisor, fly fishing guy. And no disrespect to anybody on TripAdvisor, any businesses, any guys on TripAdvisor. Like you have a particular skill that is sought after because you you how long, how long were you fly fishing before you decided to so growing up, I I mean, hunting and fishing as long as I can remember.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

I mean, from from the time I was a little kid, I had some very good influences in my life. My dad, big hunter, my grandfather on my mother's side, big hunter, big fisherman. He's the more the fisherman. And then my great uncle uh and my my dad's brothers, my uncles, we just uh grew up with it. So it was almost like you didn't know anything else. But like anything else, you when you do that your whole life, you get to a point where you're like, okay, not necessarily burnout, but feeling like it's like, where can I go from here? So actually, fly fishing, I didn't start fly fishing probably until I was a little more seriously, probably in my late teens. And I was completely self-taught. You know, I never went with a guide, I never took fly casting lessons or anything like that. I just watched what people do and try to mimic what they're doing. And then when I moved to Colorado in '96, I moved up there in the wintertime, got a job on the ski mountain because I needed a job. And the spring rolled around it, turned out all the guys that I was buddies with on the ski mountain were fly fishermen.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

And when I started hanging out with those guys, I was like, man, I gotta sharpen my skills because I was like, these guys are good. And, you know, just watching them and kind of picking their brains and learning more about it. I mean, just in a short time, one of the guys managed a fly shop and said, Hey, I could use the fly guide on the weekends if you'd be interested. And the thought never even occurred to me that I could be a fly fishing guide. And then when I was like, I didn't know any better, I was like, sure, you know, and I was working on a construction crew, worked four days a week, so I had three days off on the weekends. Next thing you know, within a year, I was guiding so much that I was, I was like, man, I can do this guiding thing instead of doing, you know, swinging the hammer. And uh it just worked out. And luckily, I grew a good clientele list. I would get a lot of request trips. And then it just sort of that sort of morphed into the hunting. Well, how can I work this into guiding hunting as well? And uh got some good opportunities. Uh uh, I I owe a lot to my brother, yeah. So yeah, my younger brother got a job uh as a ranch manager in northern New Mexico. And and he also split time in South Texas. And he said, Hey, you know, you want to come do some elk guiding? And I was like, I elk hunted for myself. Yeah. I was like, heck yeah. And so I started elk guiding for him, and next thing you know, I started thinking, man, I can make this a full-time job.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

Wait, wait, let's let's go back a little bit because it is like, okay, so you grew up hunting, first off. Like for me, I grew up on the south side of Chicago, right? So it wasn't necessarily a lot of hunting going on, right? It's different laws, different cultures. How does that and I and I always wanted, when I was a kid, when I was a teenager, the first movie I ever saw that really, that really made me think about hunting, being in a city was The Deer Hunter. Absolutely. Right? Saw that movie, and I I remember thinking to myself, like, man, that's kind of crazy. Like, these guys are like, you know, going after animals. I had no real conception of it until then. But for you, yours was yours, your life was completely different. You had so many different influences. Like you said, that's that's all you knew. What was that like like when you were a kid? Like, how were your weekends?

SPEAKER_01 6:35

So my weekends were looking forward to getting into the deer stand during deer season. I mean, that's that's all I thought about, you know. Even at like we even even I shot my first deer when I was six years old.

unknown 6:46

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

And that just even before that, just going to the deer stand with my dad. And my dad was the most patient hunter in the world. And he taught me a lot about you sit and wait. I mean, you just be patient, you sit and you wait, and you sort of let things come to you. And it was, you know, just always wanted, you know, dad, can I go? Dad, can I go? Dad, can I go?

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Like I'm looking at a six-year-old right now. He turns literally six today. And looking at him, I mean, he getting him to sit and be still would be something else. And I I don't know why. Maybe they're a little bit more stimulated these days. How did you even do you remember how you even sat still? Like I, you know, imagine being in a deer stand with a kid.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

I remember it as though I was perfectly still and I was absolutely wonderful. I'm pretty sure my dad would have a different side to that story. Um, and especially, you know, my dad would sit long. I mean, he would sit long, he would sit long. Back then he was a smoker. And it was so funny because we'd be sitting there and it'd be cold, you know, and there wouldn't be much showing up. It's getting later in the morning, you know, and and he'd always say, All right, I'm gonna smoke one more cigarette. We're gonna give it one more cigarette. And and it always seemed to me like that was the slowest burning cigarette I'd ever seen in my life. And so, you know, he he he sort of taught us the importance of, hey, gotta be quiet, gotta sit still, you know, you gotta be patient. And and I think I'm fortunate to have seen it from such a young age that I was able to see the effects, the positive effects of hunting correctly and being still and being quiet and and just uh being patient and giving it plenty of time because you never know what's gonna happen. It only takes a second for a deer to step out that you're that you're looking for. And so, you know, it's it's uh it's something that I've never really known any different.

SPEAKER_03 8:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

So it's hard for me to now, granted, I've guided kids, uh, which is some of the funnest stuff when you take a kid out to shoot his first buck or something like that. It's just so fun. And, you know, you just you gotta be patient with them because that's how they're gonna learn to be patient with the situation. And, you know, kids these days, it's funny. Some of them, they will get caught up. You start pointing out birds, you know, don't always sit there and go, okay, this is what we're after, and that's all we're looking for. You know, you got to be sure and point out, look at the birds, look at the look at the coyote out there, look at the bobcat. You know, there's so many things you can see. Um, that if you can get them focused on everything in nature and the total picture, as opposed to getting so laser focused on this is what I want, this is what I want, this is what I want. Well, take what you're given. Don't, you know, look at all the stuff God put in front of you this morning. Look at all of it, appreciate all of it. And and you know, that's how you learn. Like learning about deer, spent I've I countless hours just watching deer do deer stuff.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

From a very young age.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

From a very young age.

SPEAKER_03 9:37

And all of your friends were into the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

A lot of my friends were hunters. And their dads. And their dads were hunters. Absolutely. And that's a fortunate way to grow up. And I feel like, unfortunately, recently we're losing more and more of that. You know, there's there's we've become very urbanized. And not only were we losing kids to culture, but we're losing ground. We're losing the the availability, you know, and accessibility to be able to go and put kids in those situations. Um and it's uh it's gonna be the biggest struggle, I think, over the coming years is to to try to have opportunity to get kids, young kids in those situations.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Because you have so much data on hunting, right? You started at six. Uh, I'm assuming that you're about 16 now.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Just a little bit. A little over.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

How have how has your relationship to hunting, your perception of it, what it means to you, how has it changed over time?

SPEAKER_01 10:34

I I think it's changed more from trying to do things for myself to the guiding, doing things for other people. And and I get as much enjoyment now, and it's funny because back when we were kids, you know, and we go hunting with dad and we'd shoot something, man, dad would get so excited. And it's just I didn't understand. I was like, you know, I but then you start realizing as you start, you know, guiding and taking your own kids hunting, your nieces, nephews, all things like that. You you start realizing, you know, that's more fun for me. And you got to do that through guiding as well. You've got to be able to live vicariously through your hunter. You've got to be able to realize their success is your success. And that's that's the goal and that's the purpose. You know, you get greedy and you get selfish, and you know, a lot of fly fishing guides stuff could be that way. It just killed them to get out there on the river and watch somebody else catch fish because they want to catch those fish. So you have to have this mindset that, you know what? If they're catching fish, I'm doing my job right and I'm doing something really well. And that's that's gotta be some uh a point of satisfaction for yourself. So if it's morphed at all, it's more from doing everything for myself, which I still enjoy to do. Don't get me wrong. I still love to do it myself, but being just as uh uh satisfied taking doing it for somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

I mean, that sounds that sounds has like a lot of parallels with with manhood and coming of age, where you know, most of the things that you used to get excited about were related to you, right? And then over time, those things they don't matter to you as much, right? Uh the celebrations, the accolades, the accomplishments. It it just doesn't it doesn't hit the same. But then when you're doing it for others, especially maybe your children, maybe you in your case, your hunters, your, you know, the people that you're guiding, you actually feel just like you did when you were younger because you're watching them get the same accomplishment. They're taking a shot, they're aiming, they're getting better, and it makes you feel better.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

And I think to that point, even more so, because it's one thing, for example, to go sit in a deer stand, you're targeting a specific deer or a specific criteria. That deer comes out, you take your gun, you shoot it. Okay? That's satisfying. That's that's that's that's good. But you know, I I I know I can do it. It's another level of trust now when the gun is in somebody else's hands, and now they're your tool. It's not you doing it. So you've got to have confidence in that other person too, because you having confidence in them is gonna give them confidence. So it's almost the next level. Like I get just as nervous when uh or shaky when somebody else is shooting a deer than than I do for myself. Why do you think that is? And I think that's because you got there again, it's that trust level. It's that you've got to trust that this person is gonna make a good shot. They're gonna, they're gonna do everything that you know they can do, but they've got to execute it. Whereas me doing it, I I know I can do it, you know, I have all the faith and confidence in myself that I that there is. But putting your trust in somebody else to again, you know, make a good, clean, ethical kill and to to you know, take the responsible shot, not force, not rush. You know, it's a it's funny because I used to always say that when I would, for example, archery elk. Archery elk is one of my favorite things in the world. I I love elk guiding more than anything else, especially archery when the rud is on. And I've killed elk, and I remember I always I never really got shaken or got nervous or anything like that until after the event, after I shot the animal, after it didn't work out. However, that was when I would all of a sudden go, oh man, that you know, and get shaky. And and and and I don't know why that happened. Why why didn't I get nervous or shaky before? Some people do. I do after. When I've got a hunter and an elk is coming in, and this hunter's got to position himself and draw his bow and do all those things and take that shot. Man, I'm just a ball of nerves because it's out of my control. You know, I got it there, I got the situation, but from here on it's out of my control. And to me, that's a lot more nerve-wracking than if I'm doing it myself.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Aaron Powell It's interesting you say that because a lot of people will think that you you're hunting primarily because you're a psychopath.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Exactly, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

And that's when in reality it sounds like something completely different. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Absolutely. And and I I think that's one of the big misnomers in hunting. People think that, okay, you hunt, you you kill an animal, okay, that you have some sort of bloodlust. You know, you you you wanna you just want to kill. And you must hate animals. And I absolutely love them. I absolutely, I I have such an appreciation and love for wildlife. It's it's it's not about killing that animal. It's about going through the situation, going through the hunt. You know, it doesn't work out, especially in bow hunting. I always tell people, you know, the thing that I love about bow hunting is that's the most satisfaction I've ever had from not being successful.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

90% of the time it does not work out. So how would bow hunting differ from hunting with the firearm? Aaron Powell So for example, the seasons, like and I'll use elk as a as an example because that's the biggest difference. So a lot of times you're hunting elk with archery September, you've got the rut going on, you've got elk are bugling, they're focused on their cows, and you've got to get in close to that example. And the rut is is September usually. Okay. Um it's when the bulls start separating cows. But prior prior rut, the bulls are all isolated. They can be in bachelor groups sometimes. And as the rut starts to get closer to the mating season, the bulls start bugling. They start making a lot of noise, and what they're trying to do is attract cows, and then they start fighting over herds of developing their own herd of cows. That's when you can really be successful in getting close to them because you can hear them. They're bugling as long as they're making noise. You know where they are, you know how to approach that animal or make your best approach with the wind in all the circumstances. And then once you get in close to that animal, it's the best time of year to be able to shoot one with a bow. And we're talking about deer. This is elk.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

This is elk hair.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

Yeah, this is elk. Elk hunting, yeah. So elk hunting, the, you know, it's done in the mountains a lot of times, the western states, there's a lot of you know, deserty type terrains and stuff like that as well. But with rifle, rifle seasons are later in the year, that rut activity is pretty much over. You can still catch some of it in the early rifle seasons, but it starts getting tough because those bulls start to isolate themselves and get back, you know, into their own little isolated world away from everything. And you wouldn't think an animal as big as an elk is hard to find. But pre-rut, when they're not making any noise, eh, it's not easy. It's difficult. It's difficult. It's difficult. And the other thrilling part of it is you can call back to them and you can do certain things to try to draw them to you. And that is that's one of the most thrilling things there.

SPEAKER_03 17:59

Well, like there, if you how do they cite them? Because somebody has to you I mean, you go based off of a sighting, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:05

So are there people, are there that are just a lot of times you just go into an area where you know is good and and you just get out there and get after it. Just go start going through and trying to find one, you know, um, listening, you know, during the rut, trying to hear those bugles and work your way to that animal. Um the uh now depends on where you are, like in in places like Arizona, Nevada, places like that, spotters are real important because there's fewer no fewer animals, there's vast terrain. And it really, really, really helps to have other eyes in the field spotting from from great distances, miles away sometimes, looking for those specific animals that you're trying to harvest. And and so it it can become a team effort. And and uh it's funny because you can get two different sides. You can get the individualism where a lot of times during archery in Colorado, man, I just go out by myself and and just go just get out in the woods and go hunt and try to find, you know, try to shoot an elk with a bow. Again, I I liked bow hunting. Um and I've done it where a big group of guys gets together and we all go and try to try to do the same thing, pair up, you know, and and try to help each other out, and you get equal satisfaction from both. It's is you know it's to each his own.

SPEAKER_03 19:25

Yeah, well, that's it's insane because when you're by yourself, how many days are you out there?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Uh man, I had a mule deer tag one time for archery season in Colorado for and I was trying to kill a high high country deer. Man, I was out there for weeks, and and I would check come back down and check in, but go back up. But it was a tag that it took me, you know, six years or so to draw. And I had done a lot of scouting, and man, I had I I saw this one deer and I just wanted that deer so bad. You know, that was the one I wanted. So yeah, put in, apply for the tag, and then if you don't draw, it gives you a preference point. This is how Colorado works, and then you build preference points, and the more preference points you have, the more likely you are to draw.

SPEAKER_03 20:06

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

So it took me about six years to draw that tag for that particular unit. And so I drew the tag. I knew I had the tag in in like May, and so end of July, go out, start scouting, just hiking with optics and looking and glassing and trying to locate something in that unit that you know I wanted to chase after. Found his deer. He he I'd seen some bigger deer, but man, this deer was just beautiful. He was just the one I wanted, you know? And I uh I spent weeks uh trying to kill that deer. Never did.

SPEAKER_03 20:35

How would you like differentiate? Like I would, if I went out there, I would just see a deer. I would just say, hey, there's a buck. And I wouldn't be able to differentiate one from the other. Right. But like not off the bat. Right. How do you do that? How do you know, like, okay, that's the one I want as opposed to all the other deer that are running around?

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Um I think one thing is just having looked at a bunch of them, having seen a bunch of them and being able to look for those identifiable characteristics. And of course, when we're talking about deer or elk or or you know, most things, we're talking about antler growth. That's the desirable that we're looking for. Yeah, age. And usually that you know larger antler growth comes with age. So you're looking for older bucks, you're looking for and not necessarily like I said, on that scouting year, I've seen some other big ones, but this, the, the shape of his antlers, you know, the way he was conformed. I mean, it was just that was what I have, what I think is desirable. And being able to judge, you look, you know, you look at the antler growth compared to the age, and that'll, you know, kind of help narrow it down as to what what you're after, what you're trying to do. Now, that's me. Somebody who wants to go out in the woods and and and just I don't look down on no, I think trophy is relative, and I don't always like the term trophy. Um, because I think it's relative to what you're hunting, who you are, what your skill level is, what your experience is. You know, uh a guy shooting his very first mule deer and shoots, you know, uh a just a decent, you know, buck, that's great. That is that is that man's trophy. Yeah. You know, and and uh it's the same with whitetail hunting. I grew up in the hill country, white tail hunting. Our deer in the hill country do not get as big typically as the deer in South Texas. South Texas is just a special spot. The the deer just grow bigger down there. And uh they've got some of the most unbelievable natural nutrition that there is. And because of that, they're they're bigger in the body. I think from people out of state, they get this misconception of Texas deer, thinking, oh, they're little. You know, we we you know, we kill deer that live weigh 250, 260 pounds.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

I was shocked that the deer we saw down there because the deer just in my neighborhood alone are small.

SPEAKER_01 22:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 22:56

Right. You know, sometimes I mistake them from afar for coyotes. They're so small. Obviously, those are like the little little ones, but um, yeah, down in South Texas, they were pretty big there. They'd be shocked at how big. I had a lot of respect for them. I like for example, I never understood why Milwaukee named their basketball team, the Bucks. And then I saw those and I was like, oh. It's pretty majestic. Yeah, it's an elegant, majestic beast right there. You bet.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

You bet.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Just jumping all over the place with those big antlers. Beautiful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

And it's, you know, it's relative, like, you know, if you if you hunt different regions, the Midwest, I mean, it's a different animal. I mean, when I got in Illinois, and the deer we killed there, I mean, this is just a different animal.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Yeah. Um what were nice about the how were they different?

SPEAKER_01 23:44

The the body size, first of all. Um, they're they're built to south Texas deer are built to survive a hard summer. They they're sleek, their hair is very fine, very short. Um because of that, they they they look like a bodybuilder. Like when you get these big mature bucks, you know, you can see all the ripples in their muscles and everything like that. In the Midwest, those deer are built to survive a hard winter. They're longer legged because of the snowfall. Their hides are so thick, you know. And when you start talking about what a deer weighs on the hoof, you know, in South Texas, a 250-pound deer is a big deer. Up there, that's not a real big deer, you know, 280 pounds, like your mature deer are like 280 to 300 pounds. I used to give them a hard time, the guys who were, you know, the the Midwest Pride, I used to say, yeah, that's because the hide weighs 80 pounds. You know, it's all that hair. And uh, but it's just it's very cool to see. It's the same animal, same behavior, a lot of the same stuff. It's just that that they're just built different, you know. Um, and because of the bigger body size up there, a lot of times it makes the antlers look smaller. So you see a deer that you think coming from Texas, you know, on the boon and crockett scale, oh, that that deer's, you know, like 140, 145. Well, you harvest that deer and you actually get your hands on you. Uh no, he's he's quite a bit bigger than I thought he was, you know. So so there's that factor as well, kind of being knowing where I am to judge how big an animal is. Aaron Powell You mentioned trophy hunting.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

When most people think of trophy hunting, they think of a guy who, you know, went to Africa, shot a lion, takes a picture with it, and then I don't know, throws a lion in the garbage after. Right. Well, how would you defy trophy hunting?

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Aaron Powell, I I think there's a I think there's a stigma that goes along with the word trophy. Because you start thinking about trophy, and all of a sudden now this primal thing, this hunting for sustenance, this hunting for for you know to provide now becomes I'm I'm trying to win accolades and accomplishments, you know, because because I'm after this trophy. I think kind of touched on it a little bit ago, the trophy is individual. I think as long as we we had a great rule as a kid growing up. You know, my brother and my cousins and us, we all hunted our same little family ranch. My great uncle was the owner of the ranch. He instilled kind of this makeshift rule where when you shot a buck, the next one you shoot had to be bigger than the last one. And it was about that progression. And it and it taught me something that's very important is not being a greedy hunter. You know, not shooting something just because it's there. Well, is that one better than the last one? No, so you got to wait till you see something better and better and better. And really, that's how I got into bow hunting because I had, you know, shot some pretty good deer for where we were. And and I'm going to the deer stand. I'm like, man, the odds of me seeing a deer that, you know, is bigger than the last one I killed, minimal. So it I was like, I needed to sort of rejuvenate that drive. And my neighbor across the street was selling a bow. And he I bought his bow and just started shooting that bow. And I thought, you know what, I'm going to start bow hunting. And I started bow hunting. It was like starting over. I started down here and just went through the same progression. So when I first picked up that bow, even though I'd been hunting for, geez, you know, since I was six. So I think I was about 17 or 18 when, so, so, you know, 12 years or so. When I picked up that bow, man, the first deer I shot was this little hill country seven-point buck. But you know what? That was, I'll never forget that one. You know, that was a trophy. Yeah. Because I I did it a different way.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

And and that's, you know, most people would look at that little buck and go, eh, you know, it's just a little buck. But it's because of how I went about it and and what I did. And I think it's personal accomplishment. I think if you're going to use positive the the term trophy in a positive way, you're trying to better yourself. Whether you're a guy that's hunted all over the world and killed all the stuff there is, trying to get that next giant, trying to get that next big one because it gets harder and harder. You know, when you try to get a big, big, bigger deer, a bigger mule deer, bigger elk, it gets tougher and tougher and tougher. And uh I think that's the way you need to keep the term trophy, you know, relative to the individual, and also trophy relative to the overall picture of the track. I think it's a great trophy.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

That that's a great rule that they instilled into you guys. And I feel like the it can be applicable to so many things, right? Where you just you you you kind of learn to not be greedy, like you said. Sure. Right. If you have a goal, you just don't go after goals just because they're attainable. You keep raising the bar for yourself, go for the biggest thing. You don't keep going for the same thing that you've gotten millions of times before. And you just train your brain like that to where I think it just keeps you on point, keeps you, keeps you targeting and challenging yourself.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

100%. And and I think it's um it's applicable in a lot of areas of life, like you said, not just hunting, but it, you know, just try to do better. You know, just always try to do better. You know, always try to make the next right decision and and keep that relative to what has happened in the past. Hunting's the same way. I've I've screwed it up a bunch, you know. I've missed, I've I've you know, made bad shots, I've done it all. And the difference is there are people that will take that and dismiss it and say, eh, you know. And there's people that go, okay. That was a very uh disturbing feeling. I'm gonna try to do better. What did I do wrong? What do I need to do different next time? How do I make it, how do I make it work? You know? Um, and being able to keep that mindset and keep that, you know, progression, I think it just helps you in in in a lot of different things.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

It's interesting to see your perspective. Because again, me growing up in the city of north, like hunting was just looked at something, oh my God, it's backwards. Why would you do it? It's unethical. Why would you kill those poor defenseless animals? You have this firearm, you know, it's a poor defenseless animal walking around in the woods minding their own business, and then you shoot them. Whereas your perspective is is completely different.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

I I think a lot of that is people that have that mindset that you're just out there killing animals think that you go out there and something walks out and you shoot it. And that's just not that that's just not the way it is a lot of the time. Now, there are those hunters that are just bloodlust, they just want to go kill. And it's all about killing. The only way they measure success is whether they killed something or not. Not, oh man, what a morning, you know. I saw some great young deer, I saw some some good deer that, you know, have potential for the future, or, you know, man, I saw, you know, two two bobcats get in a fight. That was one of the coolest things, you know, or I saw a hawk grab a uh a rabbit off the road. You know, there's just all those other things that can happen that can give you satisfaction and give you success when you're out there. And you got to keep that perspective. There are some people that just if they don't shoot something, they don't kill something, then then it's not a success. And that's just unfortunately, I mean, they're they're just you can't control people's mentality. All you can do is just try to influence and try to do the right thing yourself and hope that you know maybe it'll rub off on people. Um but the if you just wanted to go out there and shoot anything that came along, you saw you can go like in South Texas, you can go to deer stand. If you just want to kill something, plenty. Yeah, it's plenty of deep. But we're looking for deer that are older, we're looking for deer that meet a certain criteria, and that's where management comes into play. And you know, I did manage a ranch for 13 years in South Texas, and and you know, you you just you start being selective about what you harvest, you start really, really scrutinizing those animals and trying to carry on genetics you want, get rid of genetics you don't want. And that sort of starts molding what you're looking for, molding your decisions about your hunting and what animals you harvest is based on that philosophy, that that management philosophy. And I think, you know, the more management-minded people can be, I think just the better it'll make uh hunting in general.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

That's one thing I loved about my experience with you was that it didn't feel like concierge killing. It was it was well thought out. And you know, you guys did a really good job of understanding, okay, everyone here is a different level hunter. Some are novice, some had never done it before, some are pretty damn good. And but you made sure everyone had an understanding of the firearms, the safety, what to look for. And and you know, over a weekend, I mean, I felt I had a good understanding of what was going on and what I couldn't do. True. And it was plenty of times we saw, you know, beautiful bucks out there, and they were just, nope, that one is off limits. Nope, can't do that one. Nope, can't get that one. No, nope, not that one.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

And that's uh I tell people all the time, you know, in a in a management setting, hunters come in, excuse me, and I say, get used to the word no. Because you're gonna be told you're gonna say a lot of stuff that you wanna that you want to shoot, and you just you can't, you know, for for various reasons. Um but you touched on safety, and I think that's one thing, too, that is very, very, very important. Um it's you know, it can be a dangerous thing. I mean, it really can. If people are irresponsible with firearms and people are irresponsible even with archery equipment, it can be dangerous. And that's one thing that most of the places that I've guided and that I've worked, that has been the focus and the emphasis is safety, safety, safety, safety. And we tell people, you're gonna get tired of me asking if your gun's on safety, asking if you're loaded, asking if you're unloaded, did you load it? Did you put it on safety? You know, that is not because we don't have trust that you're doing it. It's just that we have to be so safety conscious because you can't take it back. No. You know, I used to tell people all the time, same, same with you know, the difference in fishing and hunting, you know, you can do catch and release fishing, can't do catch and release hunting. Once you make a decision, that's why guiding hunting can be a lot more intense. Once you make the decision that that is that is an animal we're gonna harvest, it there is no taking it back. Once that gun goes off, man, the decision's made. And you you you know, there is no catch and release. There is no walking up and you know, looking at a deer's teeth and saying, Oh, he's actually younger than I thought he was. Let's let's go ahead and just let him no, it's over, you know. And uh that's why it's it's you know, on these more managed, like where you were hunting, these more managed ranches, it's it's very important to have good guides that make good decisions.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Because it's just a bad decision compounds things over time. And and that is one thing that, for example, let's say you harvest a bigger deer that's too young, and it's and it was a mistake. Mistakes happen. Everybody makes them. But what you have to take into account is not only did you lose that deer, you lost any offspring he could have produced over the next four or five years. You you lost everything that goes with having that deer helping you out with your genetics. And so, you know, the deer management, when you're doing it naturally, it takes time. I mean, it is one of those things where it you you've got to have patience. You know, when you start managing a ranch, it takes about four or five years to really see the, okay, we're really starting to get some good deer. An entire ecosystem. And let's say, okay, we're starting to get some four and five-year-old deer that are pretty stout. These are the genetics we want. Well, the fawns that they're out there running around breeding, they drop their fawns. It's going to be three or four years before you even see what they're producing. And so, next thing you know, you're looking at a 10-year program before you even really start seeing the benefits of what you know you've been disciplining yourself to do. And and that's that's why, and and it's different. Not everybody can be on a, you know, a high fence ranch in South Texas where you're managing your herd and trying to do everything, you know, the right way, and a low fence ranch in the hill country. But what I always tell people is people get in this mentality of, oh man, if I don't shoot at the neighbors will. Man, if I don't shoot it at the neighbors will. Maybe. You know, that's a maybe. But if you shoot it, it's dead for sure. You know? So it doesn't hurt anything to let a young good deer walk. And and if the neighbors shoot them, the neighbors shoot them. It's just one of those things. But know that you did the right thing. And that's why I think you and you're starting to see a little more of it because of the way we're losing land in the hill country and all over Texas and well everywhere for that matter. How are we losing land? Old old ranches that, you know, 10,000 to 20,000 acre ranches are just over time, excuse me, over time, heirs to those properties are starting to maybe chop them up. Maybe a guy has four, four people he wants to leave a ranch to, so he takes the big ranch that he owned, he chops it into four pieces. Over time, generationally, each of those guys has, you know, they chop it up, and then they decide, you know, maybe some of them aren't big hunters, maybe some of them don't care about the land, but they, you know, and so it gets sold off. And and so urban sprawl, you know, you're losing. There, there are places where I used to hunt as a kid that that it's nothing but houses now, you know.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

So the boomers are such a consequential generation. Absolutely. They affect us in life and they affect us in that they own so much of the universe.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:41

And even now, like it's just amazing to hear that, like, yeah, they're getting old and they're chopping up uh their whole ecosystems that will change how we interact with our recreation. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 37:51

And the availability of it and and you know growing up in Chicago, you didn't you just didn't have it accessible to you. No. I mean, that's that's the, you know, and I believe this. I believe that that that drive, that sort of primal instinct to hunt, I think it's in every one of us. I mean, it's it you can't tell me that in the existence of human beings, we've lost that. I don't think, you know, when you start talking about evolution, it takes a lot longer to evolve yourself out of being having the primal instincts that we have. And I think I'm not gonna say it's for everybody. I think everybody should try it because you don't know and you never know. You could be in a little bit of a rut in life and and you go try to go on a hunt and you could just find, you know, just reinvigorate yourself with something that that, you know, if you can have the means and the ability, uh, the accessibility to go do it, get out there and go do it. You know, there's there's people that do a lot of we have a lot of public land. Public land hunting is tough. Yeah, I will say. Um the all of the hunting that I've done personally for for elk has been on public land. Um and it's a it's a hard way to go, but hey, you know, you start learning a lot about yourself. You start learning maybe I'm willing to work a little harder than than other people, you know, maybe you know, I'm I'm willing to go a little further, I'm willing to stay a little longer. And those are the things that, you know, sort of help you to have opportunities at animals sometimes where other people don't.

SPEAKER_03 39:28

I mean, I love what you said because you look at human age, human existence, right? It's been about a couple of hundred thousand years, right? And then you look at how long have we been wearing clothes? Right. Okay. So how long have we been cooking our food? Okay. Not long. So you get civilization, maybe what the last recorded history is what, 10,000, maybe 15,000 years old, something like that, right? Uh the vast majority of our existence has been here and it's been wild. We've been in the wild, we've been killed, we've been killing, we've been genociding, we've been everything, okay? You get this small sliver of human existence where we have civilization and we have rules and we have pomp and we have circumstance, we have all those things. This is very new. That innate human nature is still there. Still there. And that was something that I really appreciated about hunting was you get a chance to express that in an ethical manner. Sure. There's a lot of thought. You know, like you said, 10 years for uh a ranch. If you if you're taking on a ranch and you become the manager, 10 years for you to really understand how that ecosystem is going, how to protect it, how to make sure that you get bad genetics out, all of these things that you mentioned, it's a lot of thought that goes into it just for us to take that human instinct and express it in a way that actually gives back to nature.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

I thought that was incredible.

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Right. And I think a lot of that, you know, when you start talking about that instinct and that human nature, when you harvest an animal and, you know, you you ethical shot, you got it, you you skin it, you, you know, quarter the meat out, you debone the meat, you cut up your steaks, you cut up, you grind up your hamburger meat, and all the, you know, you go through all that stuff. And then that first time you sit down and you cook, yeah, you're like, man, you know, I I I provided this for myself. I didn't go to the grocery store. I, you know, I went out and I and I just provided for me, provided for family, provided for for friends, whoever you give a lot of it away as well. You give a lot of it away. You know, I have not killed a white-tailed deer in probably three or four years, personally. Just, you know, through guiding. You know, there's we you've got to keep the numbers down, you know, you've got to uh uh really keep you know shoot a lot of deer to try to keep the population down the way, you know, ethically you want it to be. And uh people don't always have room to take all their meats. I'll take some, you know. So I like I said, I haven't gone out and shot a deer for myself in a while. It's been a while.

SPEAKER_03 42:12

I also think that cultures where you see men maintain that martial level of uh that martial spirit, right? That that that voice that speaks to men and tell them, hey, you have energy. Now, you can uh you can execute this energy in the positive way or negative way. You can go through the proper channels or the not so proper channels, right? But when you have uh, like you say, your father, your grandfather, your friend's fathers, their grandfathers, they all were able to maintain this culture where they where they taught their sons, hey, this is how you express yourself. This is how that aggression that men have. Because I believe men do have that we have quite a bit of aggression. A lot of men. We have a we have aggression, and we're not always taught how to expect express that aggression. We're not always taught, you know, you're taught, okay, well, you know, go uh go go to a quiet place, go walk it out. But I think it is the dark part of us that needs to really express. Sometimes we have to go out and uh and do it and do it in a violent way, but in a controlled violent way.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Right. And I think it's it's finding that the the positive way to to get that aggression. You know, I play, I'll I was an athlete, I played football. And I mean, I was otherwise a pretty passive guy, you know, but for whatever reason on the football field, man, I just I loved it. I loved the contact, I loved it, you know? And it it just sort of gave an outlet because we internalize, you know, as men, and I think even more so, you know, in in today's culture, you're being hit by all these outside influences that that tell you you can't be, you can't be, you can't be, suppressed, suppressed. Suppress, suppress, suppress. And man, you sit there and you suppress it and you hold it back and you hold it in long enough, you're gonna blow up.

SPEAKER_03 44:07

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

And so it's good to have some sort of positive outlet hunting. Just recreational shooting. You know, just going out to a target range, a gun range, and shooting, and just, you know, there's a huge release that you feel, and and and you get that feeling of power just by target practicing.

SPEAKER_03 44:28

I like to shoot my. You've watched a lot of guys, right? Yeah. What do you think they get out of it? When you see all the all the guys that you've watched shoot something, targets, the harvesting, whatever. What do you think is actually happening?

SPEAKER_01 44:42

I think it it is deep down a release. I think again, it gets back to that, you know, inherit thing in all of us that that you know, we we do want to feel a little power. And shooting a gun is a very powerful thing. I mean, that you know, and it's something to take very seriously, and it's something to always, you know, be responsible with. But it can be a source of release where you you go out and you just shoot, you target practice. For me, I love to shoot my bow. I like I love the feel of that bow in my hand. I love to release that arrow, and I love the sound of that arrow hitting the target. That that is one of the coolest sounds to me. Um here lately, I'm probably trying to take it out on golf balls a lot. I think I play a lot of it. It seems to always be something. Be something. Uh, you know, people go to the batting cages, you know, just just even some soft pitch, hit some soft balls. You know, there's there's there's men are physical beings, and and we've got to do something physical in order to have that that sort of expression of that that that inner power, that inner, you know, masculinity that that we just we all feel. It's it's it's there in all of us. It's just about how we go about expressing it and about how we go about um um connecting to it. And that is, you know, I I think that's a big challenge for the next generations for sure.

SPEAKER_03 46:07

I mean, I again growing up in the city, I didn't understand that I needed recreation until I moved to Texas, until I moved to Arizona, until I was, you know, in and out of the western states, in and out of Colorado. And, you know, I was I had my activities where, you know, maybe it was kite surfing, maybe it was golf, maybe it was, maybe it was hiking, maybe it was uh snowboarding, maybe it was skinny, whatever it was. Having something that I did for myself really was an unlock for me.

SPEAKER_00 46:36

Right.

SPEAKER_03 46:37

Just overall, because I was like, wait a second, I have all of this pinned up in me that I can't really release in the modern world in the same way without that typically being a penalty. Right, exactly, exactly, exactly. You know, waking up in the jail cell on a Sunday morning. Like exactly, exactly. So it was this, so you know, all the anything, whether dirt bikes, anything, it was just a way to say, okay, yeah, actually, I might not acknowledge it, but there is something that is built up residually over time. Right. That I need to express in some form of fashion. And typically it's physic I need to physically express it. Right. Whether that's physically exerting myself or that physically uh dispensing some power.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

And and that I think just just sort of goes along with, you know, good, clean fun.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

You know, find you something that's good, clean fun, you know, pickleball.

unknown 47:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

Anything. Whatever. Just just go exert yourself a little bit. You know, I I for me, you know, go into the mountains and just really I I shot this elk one time. And uh, well, I've got a couple of stories about shooting elk in bad places, like geographically. I'll leave one for my brother to tell because he helped me pack it out, and that was not pleasant. But I shot this elk one time and it was early in the season, and I didn't have a lot of time to hunt that year. So it was opening weekend. Um, the elk are still typically pretty high up in the mountains. So they're, you know, you're looking at like tree line and above, and just down into the tree line. They'll come down into the tree lines to bed in the in the timber. And um, I went up and I thought, you know what? The first just decent six by six bull I see, I'm not gonna get real picky. I'm I'm, you know, I want to fill the freezer, you know, I don't have a lot of time. So on the second morning, I'd gone up and I located this bachelor group of bulls, and there was a big bunch of them. There's two six by six bulls in there. I said, okay, either one of those two would be fine. And I just kind of followed them along, kept good wind, and they started filtering down into a bedding area right at tree line. It was this bench, and I'd slipped up in there, it was just the most perfect situation, everything. There were 11 bulls altogether, and they all just slipped in there, not one of them had a clue I was there. And I shot this bull and I thought, awesome. He's gonna run downhill. That sucker ran and died on a steep slope. And I was looking at like, how did he not roll to the bottom, you know? But there he was. Well, now I've got this, you know, 700-pound animal that I've by myself. I have to, I gotta gut it, I gotta skin it, I gotta quarter it, and I gotta pack it out of here. And I I shot that bull, I recovered, I I gave it some time and recovered him, got to him, and it was about a little after eight o'clock in the morning. So I started, I carry straps with me, I did it, you know, started the processing procedure and all this stuff. But uh I had to hike back to my camp to get my big frame pack to start packing it out. So I got everything hanging up, got everything situated, went down to my camp, got my uh pack, and I was able to drive my truck to the end of this logging road that got it fairly close. Um, probably three quarters of a mile, maybe. But I mean, it was just and I went back in. I got the first pack, I took it out, went back in, got the next load, took it out. I went back in, and typically by yourself in Elk is about four trips. And I thought, man, it was starting to get evening.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

I was like, I do not want to hike back up here in the morning. I'm just gonna take it all. So I put everything else I had on that pack. And holy cow, man, I went down. The first part was really, really steep, and it was a little sketchy, but you know, just took my time, took it slow, and it started to flatten out a little bit. And there's this great big boulder at the bottom of that steepest section. I set the back of that pack on there and I just kind of took the weight off my shoulders. I started looking down where I was gonna go, and I was looking for the next rock or the next log or anything, and I'd pick it up and I'd walk to that one and I'd set it back down. And I'd pick it up and I'd walk to the next and set it back down and rest, you know, just take the weight off my shoulders. And I put that pack on the truck at 7:30 at night, 7:30 in the evening, and I put that last pack on. And I drove back down to my camp, hung everything up. I think I might have heated up a can of stew or something in a can, you know, and ate. And I laid down, and I'll tell you right now, I won't forget it to this day. That was the best night of sleep I ever got in my life. And I woke up that next morning, and the fact, number one, that I had I had harvested an animal. Number two, I didn't have to go back up that mountain and get another pack. And I just laid there, breaking day, starting to turn daylight, all the birds start going. I camped by a little, just little bitty creek. You could hear that creek flowing. And it was just like I found such peace. It was, you know, wouldn't trade it. I get emotional talking about it.

SPEAKER_03 51:32

It's amazing because it's not, it's not like it always needs to be some public acknowledgement of your success. I think for a lot of guys, it's really about something that you accomplished on your own that you know you did. And I think that is the first step to increasing your confidence in life. Like you know that you took, because see, you when you have that honest conversation with yourself, like, I'm only gonna make this is gonna be my last trip. This is it. I'm taking everything and we're taking it back to count. And when you tell yourself, you know, you know, like, okay, I told myself this. And when you start to let yourself down, that's when you lose your confidence. Right. But when you tell yourself something and you actually follow through, that inner self knows that, yeah, you're not a joke. Yeah. You actually are real. Hey, maybe you actually are something.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

And that drive to to you know, to get it done. And, you know, it was um I I had never loaded a pack that heavy. I was like, you know, I was on uncharted territory, you know, even guiding, you know, we always a lot of times we would harvest something. We seldom took it out by ourselves. We, you know, we would always have help, group of us. And uh, you know, with with that one, it was just I think number one, having having a good spiritual relationship, whether it be God or whatever you believe is important, having something, believing that there's something bigger than yourself.

SPEAKER_03 53:01

Does it fill a spirit when you're out there?

SPEAKER_01 53:03

Absolutely, absolutely. Out there is my church. I mean, I've always been a pretty religious guy. Uh, you know, my grandfather was just just something else. He was very deeply spiritual, my maternal grandfather. And he, you know, he he just he never went to church. He just, he would go fishing and he'd go hunting. And but, you know, he was he was always a very um very honest, very modest, you know, and and we would sit and we'd talk, and you know, God would come up a little bit here and there or whatever, you know. Um, but that for him, you know, that like I said, that was his church. And I'll never forget that his funeral, one of the most impressive things I've ever heard at a funeral. Uh, Pastor Sam got up and grandpa didn't go to his church much. You know, I mean, very little. Now, my grandmother was there every day. She she was she was church lady. I mean, sang in the choir. I mean, grandma was in church every day. But grandpa just didn't go. And he got up in front of, and the first thing he said was, I'd rather have a man sitting on the bank of a river thinking about God than sitting in a church pew on Sunday thinking about fishing. And I, you know, that really resonated with me because I thought, you know what? It doesn't necessarily have to be where you're told it is.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

It's great.

SPEAKER_01 54:20

It's where you find it. Wow. And as long as it grounds you, and as long as it keeps you being good to people and making good decisions, you know, hang on to it and do whatever you can to feel that. And I think that's another thing with young men these days. They they they need to understand that it's okay. You know, it's okay to it's okay to be religious. It's okay. It's there's nothing nervous.

SPEAKER_03 54:43

It'll be good for you. I grew up very religious and I have my periods in life where I was atheist, I was agnostic, and then I, you know, I bounced around. But I tell you one thing that I always appreciate about religion. It's always a place for you. Yeah. It's always a place for you. You get with the God, the denomination, okay, sure. But it's a reason why these ancients said, hey, this works. Through trial and error, we figured out this works. And if you have an emptiness in you, this could fill the void. Yeah. I mean, I what what you know, what religion has done. I remember I was at the grocery store. I was in Chicago. I was at the grocery store. I was putting my my bags inside of my car. And next thing I know, this guy was up on me. Kind of caught me off guard. Tattoos all in his face. And I was like, what? May I'm like, how let this guy get on me? Like, like that. And he was like, what's up? I was like, what's up? He said, hey, um, I have these bracelets, you know, they're like WWJD bracelets. He was like, you know, my my church has this program for ex-cons to help us, you know, earn some type of income, you know. Uh I'm selling these bracelets, they're like $5 each. Would you like to buy them? And I remember thinking to myself, like, man, this guy, he had to drop on me. Yeah. Like, he could have robbed me. And I remember thinking to myself, who I was at that time was like a rabbit atheist. I remember thinking to myself, is if God is the reason why this man is not robbing me, I'm supporting Jesus. You know, I was like, sir, I'll actually take five of those bracelets and you can actually keep the bracelets. Yeah, there you go. Absolutely. Because it was it was powerful for me to see. Yeah, Jesus was his reason for why he wasn't robbing me. Right. And yeah, I'm gonna support the church. I'm gonna support you because you know what, it's a place for you there.

SPEAKER_01 56:42

Right, right. And I think, you know, that morning I talked about, you know, laying in my tent. I I think, you know, you said nobody knew, but I knew and God knew. And I mean, that's all it takes. That's all that was what was important. And I feel like if we if we just support each other in whatever we believe, as long as it tells you to treat people right and to and to be good to people and to be a good person yourself, you know, then it judgment's not up to me. That that I am, you know, I I'd I let somebody else judge me. And and that it comes to people too. You know, I I I have a vision of who I am and what I am, but you know, I'm not gonna call myself necessarily some of the things I think I am. I'm gonna let other people decide. And and, you know, they can choose to be my friend, they can choose not to be my friend, they can choose to go fish or hunt with me, they can choose not to fish or hunt with me. It's you know, I I I don't think you should ever try to force anybody into anything, whether it be some activity you do or some way you believe, I think you just, you know, you just try to be an example. You do your thing and you try to, you just hope that by doing what you do, as long as you're doing something right, other people will come along with it, you know. And I say the area that I have confidence in that is, you know, my hunting and my fishing and my guiding. I just feel I I always feel like I I'm doing the right thing. This is this is what God is telling me that I'm supposed to do. And uh, and and like I said, it all started with the fly fishing, you know, and and it was just and another thing fly fishing taught me, and I was I used to be so extremely competitive. I was very competitive. Um, my brother and I were very competitive with each other when it came to our hunting and and fishing and and and sports and all that stuff. Um and when I started guiding, I started learning real quick, at least the kind of guide that I was gonna be, I wasn't gonna fish with my clients. You know, this was their money, this was their day. And that comes from a good upbringing. You know, my parents, I've I'm blessed to have two wonderful parents who taught me the value of money, the value of what you should get when you spend money. And when I'm in my mind, these guys are spending all this money for me to come out here and bring them fishing. Every fish I catch is one they can't catch.

SPEAKER_03 59:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

And this is their day. And you you have to sort of set that competition aside. And again, like I mentioned earlier, you got to live vicariously through that that fisherman. You you got to do your job to make sure he catches the fish because that way it's your success. Wow. You know, and and I think that really, really changed a lot of my perspective on the the competitiveness and that that, you know, it helped me really bring my ego down way down. Well, if you hunt enough, you there'll be a lot of things that happen that bring your ego way down. As long as you have a good perspective on things, it doesn't go right a lot of times. And a lot of times it's because of something you did wrong. And you just got to learn from it. So, you know, if you are one of these unbelievably conceited people that doesn't do anything wrong and something goes wrong, there's always an excuse. Blame it on this, blame it on that, blame it on this, you know. And the ability to sit there and go, well, I screwed that up, you know, that that there's there's something very uh rewarding to that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:07

Well, Ty, I I can't can't believe the time. Um we've been locked in. Uh this has been an incredible conversation. I it's so many things I still want to ask you, uh, but we'll have to do it another time. Sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:23

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:24

Um I will leave like some link for people if they want to reach out to you. Um I'll leave it in like the description of the show. And yeah, man, man, you you shared and illuminated so much, especially like from someone like me who I think I like a lot of people that don't really know much about this world in the depth that you do, right? And just for you to illuminate your perspective, I think, man, people need to hear that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:49

Yeah, well, I appreciate that. And I I appreciate you, you know, seeing me as a credible source. You know, I world renowned. It's hard to, it's hard to gauge, you know, with what I do, you know. I I I'm not an author, you know. I don't have books that people can go read about it. I don't uh, you know, they don't, we don't have like uh an Academy Awards for guides, you know, or or ESPI awards for guides, you know. It's just it's something that that you know we do and hopefully we do it for the right reasons. Um and and you gotta just uh allow yourself to to really, really find success in other people's success. And I think that is something that you can use in other areas of life as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:32

Absolutely. Ty, thank you, my man. Hey, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:35

Appreciate you, brother.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

Next time.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

You got