Men's Mental Health Month

🎙️ We're Back! Welcome to The Digital Lounge.

After a 7-month hiatus, The Certifiably Savage Podcast is officially back, and we couldn't think of a more important conversation to kick off our return.

June is Men's Mental Health Month, and in this episode, we're opening up the conversation around the challenges many men face but don't always feel comfortable talking about.

Join us in The Digital Lounge as we discuss:
💜 Starting your mental health journey 
💜 Breaking the stigma surrounding men's mental health
💜 How to have honest conversations with your significant other
💜 Supporting the men in our lives without judgment
💜 Creating space for healing, growth, and vulnerability

As always, we're bringing our authentic, unfiltered conversations with a little humor, a lot of heart, and a safe place to talk about the topics that matter most.

Whether you're beginning your own journey, supporting someone you love, or simply looking to better understand men's mental health, we hope this conversation reminds you that you don't have to carry everything alone.

Thank you for welcoming us back into your lives. We've missed you, and we're excited to be back in The Digital Lounge with all of you.

🎧 Like, subscribe, and join the conversation in the comments. We'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences.

Welcome back to The Certifiably Savage Podcast. Let's get savage... with compassion.

Mental Health Resources 

National Crisis hotline number: 988 

Domestic Violence Hotline:

*Text BEGIN to 88788

*800-799-7233

Crisis Text Line: Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a trained volunteer counselor at Crisis Text Line.

NAMI: Call 1-800-950-NAMI (6264) or text "NAMI" to 62640 to access free, confidential peer support and resources from the NAMI HelpLine. [1, 2, 3, 4]

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey y'all, welcome back to the Certifiably Savage Podcast. We are here in the digital lounge and I'm chilling with creative Kelly. Hey, hey. And I am Tree with the T. How y'all doing today? Drop something, let us know. Speaking of how we are doing, Kelly, how are you, my love?

SPEAKER_00 0:17

Well, I'm alright. I just got out of therapy, which I'm a big advocate of. And it ties in to today's episode.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

I love that. Girl, I'll be giving me some therapy in too, because Lord knows I need it. I'm a big advocate of it. Everyone. Everybody does. You are absolutely right. Um, and it does tie into today's episode. Let's we are gonna have a talk about men's mental health. Is men's mental health awareness month? And I think this is the perfect time. May was mental health awareness month overall. I feel like every month needs to be women's mental health awareness month. Because we are great, great. I feel like we just be so crazy. But let's get into a conversation. I guess first, like quickly, your own words, my own words. What do you how do you define like mental health? Like, what is even that mean? Because we hear it all the time. We see it, you know, it's becoming so cliche, but like for real, what is it?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Well, your mental health is just comparable to like your physical health. Like, what is what is your current state of health when it comes to your mind, right? Are you having thought thoughts that are productive and helpful in your life? Do you love yourself? There's there's so many, there's so many different aspects of mental health, really. But it's it's like if you put it short, it's really it's equatable to your physical health. Like what shape are you in? Are you in a state of mind that's going to help benefit you? Are you in a state of mind that's going to send you down a bad road? It's, you know, and your physical health ties into your mental health. So it is literally, it's literally just that. It's the yeah. Do you have a healthy mind? Where where does your mind go? What are you feeding it? It's it's crazy. The mind is not as simple as people like to think it is.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

No, it's not. I agree with you. I think it um, I think the question you pose definitely gives the answer. Like, do you have have a healthy mind? Where does your mind go? For me, I feel like there's a calibrator that I use to define my mental health or like what I think is a mentally healthy space. And then there's also just like the hardcore definition, which is being healthy minded. Now, the reason why I have the calibrator is because I feel like there are people who are very healthy-minded towards dangerous things. Like, we know people who are notorious, there are famous notorious figures in history who had a very like when we think of health as something that means like strong and abundant and forceful, solid. There's a lot of people who are strong, abundant, forceful, and solid and being back crazy, like just being all about the wrong kinds of ruckus. And that is one of the biggest forms of mental illness, is like when you're so assured that what you're doing is right and you've gone so far left that there's no way to pull you out into a space where you could be corrected because you live and die by the idiosyncrasies and the wrongness of the way your mind works, that but you function very well in that space, right? So for me, I think that mental health is really calibrated by a question. And I like to say, I don't know if people can remember the movie Friday, which I'm so ready to see, like the new Friday. But like, you know, when he gets his bike taken and he's like, Well, it's like it's a bow for our bike. And he's like, then when Debo leaves, he's like, I got mind control over Debo. When he says shut up, I be quiet, but when he leaves, I'll be talking again. And that's how I like to calibrate mental health is like you are the boy with the bike. Mental health or your mind is the Debo, right? Your life, your emotions, your decisions, your relationships, your finances, your faith, your ability to have fun. All those things are the bike. All those little pieces, right? If we're using this analogy, all those different pieces of your life make up what we can call the bike. Debo is your brain. A lot of people think, oh, I just gotta get my hair right. No, you might have to get your head knocked silly. You might have to get your hair recalibrated. Yeah, you might have to get your mind completely cleared, right? Because the mind is a very powerful tool, like you were saying. And it's so powerful that sometimes it can lead us down a pathway that's totally incorrect and can make us feel like we are in a place of doing the right thing or being healthy or being strong-minded, but the mind has just taken over because it's feeding us what it thinks will keep us safe, which can sometimes be the worst thing for us if there have been bad habits or trauma or other things that have been put in there. Um, and I know we'll touch on this more as we talk about stuff that ties into mental health, like sleep and interactions, relationships, and all the jazz. But yeah, I like to think of it as like Friday and Debo and the boy riding a bike. Like, I'm not gonna be quiet. And when he's there, I'm gonna talk. And when he leaves, I'm gonna be talking again because Debo's not about to take my bike. No, you're this is my life, right? And my brain can't have it, my brain cannot have it, period.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

So, right, well, right, and then that's something else that people need to think about, also is that you almost need to view your mind as its own entity, like you are not your mind, you are not your thoughts. You when you're telling yourself things, you automatically will subscribe to your thoughts because you logically think that you are the one controlling them, but in reality, you simply are not, and like that's something that's very hard, like for me when I first got into therapy. Understanding that your mind, it's it and what it tells you is not really coming from you, it comes from what you feed it, right? Like, I don't remember where I saw this was probably on a TikTok, where it's like you have to think of your thoughts as like an algorithm, right? Like when you're scrolling through social media, you're gonna start seeing more of what you're watching and yada, yada, yada. And it's the same thing with your thoughts. Like, you know, whatever you're feeding your brain is what it's gonna subscribe to and show you more of. And so so, like I only laugh because when I think about what I personally feed my brain, I'm just like, I'm a true crime fanatic. And the fact that I feed my brain that stuff on a regular basis. I know it contributes to like my hypervigilance and things, like I can, I can, and that's just it too, is like knowing what I know now, I can connect dots, and that's helpful also. But yeah, it's it's like to me, the first step in the whole mental health is is understanding that your thoughts really aren't coming from you, um, and that your mind and your nervous system aren't they aren't friends, they don't like each other, they're like the nasty neighbors that are constantly someone's throwing shit over the fence into the other person's yard, the other, you know, like you know, because in your mind you can be like the day is lovely, and you know, I'm gonna go for a walk and all is well, and then your nervous system says, fuck that, that's dangerous, we're not gonna do that, and then your body reacts. So it's just really like the science behind it all is it's really interesting and it's really frustrating. But but yeah, like uh understanding those things, like knowing like your yeah, knowing that your mind is really and that the thoughts that it produces are not truth, you know, and you have to actively like for some people, like we're all different, right? You have to actively listen and be and and decide am I gonna accept this as truth? Is this logical? Is this helpful, or is it hurtful and nonsense, you know, and then you have to decide whether or not you're gonna subscribe to what your mind is telling you, which is exhausting.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

It can be exhausting. I mean, I think for me, the way that I perceive it is in in the context of like your mind, uh, in the context of the conversation around going for a walk and like what happens between the mind and the nervous system. I definitely agree that the mind and the nervous system are nosy neighbors. They peek and see what each other is doing. They have a fence up, they don't really talk to each other, they talk at each other and they throw signals, they fire things at each other, but they're not sitting down um necessarily working in concert all the time. Now they can, they can work in concert, but I think it takes a lot of effort. And this is a part of why I think that men struggle um with mental health more so in silence than women. I think we all have struggles. I don't think that there's like uh any one part of the human race that just has it easier, quote unquote, with mental health. But I think men, it tends to seem like they suffer more because they suffer in silence, because they are taught to pay attention to the signals that fire from their brains, not from their emotions, not from intuition, which I truly believe that women have way more of. I feel like we have so much more. Like women's intuition is such a it's this powerful magical thing that I feel like I feel like because we almost die every month, we just we we have a different level of magic, but I feel like men are so technically inclined, like men are very technical, tactical creatures. They are fixers, they are instruction creators and followers, and they know how to spot a problem and solve a problem, and that's a brain thing, right? Calibrating an emotion, riding a wave, being like in the gray, that's that's like a woman's thing. That's why homes get built, right? This there's no magic to this, right? And then you you do have people who are epheses, right? Men who can't put anything together to save their soul, women who never can cook or clean or build a home, you know, we're all individuals. But for the most part, just the way that the masculine and the feminine is set up when we talk about energy, right? There's that masculine part of our brains or ourselves, our inner beings that's very technical, very tactical, very solutions-based. And then there's that nurturing, softening, growth-based, wavelength focus, which is emotions, right? Waves are emotions, it's energy and emotion. And that is the more feminine part. And everyone has a masculine and feminine. It just where your percentages fall may vary. Um, and so I think that what happens a lot of times is actually that when these signals are firing, it's the nervous system that says take the walk, get some sun. The nervous system is what is drawn to those wavelength gray areas that help us to calibrate ourselves with life, people, nature, air, stillness, all the things. It's the brain that says, nope, stay in bed. We are not going outside, we are getting under the cover, and we are shutting down. And so, because, and this is what makes it so unique for each person to have mental um wealth variations, right? We all have different layers that are healthy when we talk about mental health, and then we have certain things that are just either unhealthy or need strengthening. And I think it's because we all have our own independent relationship or our independent calibration with the with our internal relationship between our masculine and feminine, right? So, what I mean by that is like if I could just spill a little, you know, it's tea with the tree. I got always got a little tea. So I'm gonna spill a little tea between you and me. Like where I may have troubles, and I can be a person who says, okay, I'm gonna go outside and I'm gonna have water and I'm gonna get sun, and I need to, I need to go on a fast and have some fruit, and it's gonna help. It's gonna help me recalibrate what's going on in my brain because these signals are not firing right. You're more of a person who says, My brain is just not telling me that, and so therefore, I'm just not channeling into it. Like I know I should be doing it, but because my brain says like bed, covers, anti-peopleing, turtle shell, like that's where I go until I have to like force myself. And and in that regard, you can also be highly functional with things that you love that are tactical, like crafting, right? You have to follow instructions, go from A to Z. And and I'm like, Kelly, how do you do this in a bad spot? Because when I'm in a bad spot, all I can do is go sit in the sun. All I can do is walk. I just need to walk in a T and a I need to just I need to just put my feet in the grass and lollygag. And you're like, no, man, I'm never gonna do that. I don't fit my people in, but I will craft, right? So it's just the way that our energy flows different. Um, and I I think that contributes a lot to why men suffer the way they do, because I mean they have a lot of that masculine energy just floating around, and nobody's told them go hug another, go hug another man. I mean, like for real, for real.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Like, how come you and hug you? Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I was gonna say women are huggers. Not all, but not all that, you know, like not all women are huggers, but uh well, yeah, because one physical touch is supposed to be like a stress reducer, hugging is a stress reducer, one and it's just nice, you know, like he doesn't want a hug, which is funny because I do know people who don't want that kind of contact just simply because they weren't raised with it, so it's foreign to them, right? And anything that's foreign to you is like, what like don't touch me, but yeah, so the whole thing is like if you don't get a hug, you need help. Sorry. Well, right, well, that's that's a mental health thing, right? Like being there's a deeper like root cause for as you know, to why you don't want to be touched, and that's and and that's just it too, is like mental health is such a you can you can't generalize it in any sense really because each person's journey is specific to them and their you know traumas they've experienced or upbringings with shitty parents, you know, like it's it's all very specific to the person, but um mental health has always had its own stigma, and you know, like thank goodness, like more people are talking about it now than ever before. But you know, like we weren't raised during a time where therapy was a thing. Yeah, men typically have to be like strong, and you know, mental health issues could be viewed as a sign of weakness. Um, I certainly, of course, just because I'm in therapy and and have my own mental health uh, you know, I'm on my own mental health journey.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

I really want to stick on this topic of just for one second, not long, but I want to I want to talk a little bit more about like men and physical touch. And I mean it even correlates to people in general, because I feel like every people who say they don't want to be touched always they make me give a side eye. They make me give a side eye. Because you're like, what's wrong? You're like, what's wrong with you? But also because I feel like more than me saying what's wrong with you, like I hate I hate to say like my mind will say what's wrong with you, because that's that sounds harsh, but that's human, that's human. Yeah, but really what happens is what I'm thinking is so you like to be touched, but you don't like to be hugged, make it make sense, right? Because if you if you're being touched in a way that you want to be touched, right, then you're not complaining, you're not complaining, but to embrace somebody in a hug, and then there's people who who are just like totally anti-everything, they don't want to be touched, they don't there's no nookie, no cookie, no hug, no looky, they're just dry, yeah, in life. But that's a lie to me too, because you I've seen it. You you go out, and when you're drinking, you're dancing, and there's touching and canoodling, like nobody goes their whole lives. You hug and hold babies, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:52

It's the level of intimacy. Like the thing is, is like hugs and embracing, like that can spark emotion and feelings, you know, and then we, I mean, this is not gonna shock anybody. Men don't need those things to be behind closed bedroom doors.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

I mean, women don't either. I feel like that's a gender bias, that's a gender bias that that we really have to yeah, because because women, a lot of women, I talk to a lot of people, and there are so many women who who are who don't need that either to be well, it's not a need thing, but like if you look at men don't exactly that well, one they did they uh they can completely compartmentalize sex versus emotions and feelings. A lot of women can too. You'd be surprised how many women get on me because I can't. Like, there's so many women who have told me like, girl, what you can't, and I'm like, no, like everything they all go together, you know.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

My heart and my little helper, they well, I mean, and you can look at it in a way as is like hugging and stuff, it doesn't fulfill anything for them because it's not like and and again, we can never really just generalize anything because it's specific to the person, right? Like you're saying you're a certain way and other women are you know can and you can't, and and it's it goes both ways, you know, like it's the same thing with men, but for like do you compartmentalize? I mean, if I need to if I if I I mean, yes, I have your heart and your health between the lines, you know, like sometimes it's what what you need, right?

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Are you in a place of together?

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Right, but it but also let's circle back to the original topic right now is men being like they don't need or want hugs, but they want that other kind of touch, you know. Yeah, um, and that's just it. It's like I don't want to like compare men to like animal, sexual, you know, whatever. Uh, but that is kind of what it is. Like, men are more likely to have one night stand than a woman is. Yeah, now women do, like I said, what it's what's what's your need, you know. Like, what do you need? What are you looking for at that time? But but that's just it. It's like men cannot like a hug can be more intimate and more like meaningful versus just getting just getting it in, you know, like yeah, yeah, literally.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Yeah, and I've heard a lot of men say that too. That um I've heard men say for them it's like a sport. I've heard them say for them it is kind of like animalistic behavior in their nature, it has nothing to do with their intellect or their emotions as a person per se. Now it can be heightened, the two can have something to do with each other depending on the situation, but just in their innate natural state of being, they're like, Yeah, that can do that's regardless. I don't need anything extra. Yeah. So I get that. Um, I guess, okay, well, given that it is men's mental health awareness month, and I know that for me, one of the things that I love about men that I that I do admire is I I kind of do admire their ability to compartmentalize that part because because I mean we're gonna be honest, you know, it's the tree with the T, and you're so creative. So I know Kelly Kelly got some stuff to say about this too, but the wheels are turning. But one thing I do admire about men is their ability to compartmentalize sometimes with regard to intimacy versus touch. Um, because I feel like it does allow them to show up in a way that can be powerful. I don't like it because I feel like sometimes it can be used abusively, but I feel like when a man has a healthy balance of intimacy and touch, so like he's in tune with his physical um prowess or power, and he he knows how to address and recognize and like connect intimately, it's just the most beautiful thing. Beautiful, it's the most beautiful thing for for me, and so that is something I mean. There's lots of things that I admire about men, and I'll share them, but um, why don't you go first? Like, what are some things that you admire and love about men that contribute to your mental health? And I know that sounded so morbid to say that that contributes to my mental health, but it's just good for that's very valid.

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Well, right, well, because uh a healthy-minded man is going to benefit you and contribute to your own mental health because they're not acting fool, being crazy, stressing you out, and making you a wild woman. So, you know, which is which is the other side of the ladder, right? You the way your partner, like if we're looking at it from the sense of your partner, then you want a healthy-minded man because that's what's gonna come from that, right? Positive things. Um, for me, it's you know it's hard for me to you can do it. Always praise a man, but you can do this. So here's what I would admire it in a man it is to have a focus towards the mental health, right? To be self-aware and to be in a state of of one, that self-awareness, but then doing something with it. So, like when you identify any kind of your own traits, and you know what, this is men and women, really, it is to have that growth mindset and that mindset of being a better version of yourself the next day than you were before. So if I am encountering a man with that kind of mindset, that is something that's admirable. Um, because that takes like that, that's a lot of things. Like that is, you know, uh maturity, emotional awareness. Like it ties into so many other things. Then you have the other side of the coin where you may have a man with like toxic traits who are just content and being overly angry and easily triggered and are just or have the mentality of uh this is who I am, take it or leave it, you know. Like uh so, like for to have a man that is in that growth mindset, in that understanding that health, mental health is just as important as like physical health and that they actually are, you know, connected and um things like that. Like those are admirable traits, you know, in a man. Um I just can't like I can't generalize and be like, oh, well, here's here's what I love about men, because these are things like that are important to me that I would be like, this is what I I love about a man is a man who can be self-aware and be, you know, like knowing what needs to be fixed, or and and and when I say fixed, I don't mean it's because like you're broken or anything like that, but mended whatever nicer word you want to find, you know.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Yeah, I mean, I think I don't think it has to be it, it's not an all for one. Anything goes. One thing that I'm definitely working on in this season is tailoring. Um, I always believe that everything is not for everybody, and I'm not for everybody, so everything can be for me, and neither can everyone, but just really living and being grounded in that, right? And so being okay with that when I'm talking about things, when I'm doing things, when I'm working on business goals, just being okay with the fact that this is not gonna apply to everybody, and I'm not talking to or about whoever doesn't apply to and not apologizing. So I think you're fine. What I mean by, and I love your very mature take on it. But but what I what I mean is like I admire the fact that men can utilize physical touch as a part of how they like deal with some of their mental health challenges. Like I've heard men talk about, you know, interaction with women is a way that they relieve stress, it's a way that they escape, it's a way they let off steam. It's kind of like going to the gym or playing basketball or driving a fast car. There's like this adrenaline rush that happens and it helps to like clear their minds, right? And so I think that's something that the masculine part of me has picked up over time. Something that I think I used to shun very early on. Like, no, no, no, because I'm a girl, I can't, you know, I can't feel like I get anything. It's almost weird. Like, I I think I started out, and and this is a lot, this is heavily related to my trauma, surprisingly, with men as a child, which tells you a lot around um sex, right? And feeling that it was supposed to be something that was just to give pleasure, and you get the pleasure because you give pleasure. And then as I as I got to be an adult and I was in healthy situations, and I got to unpack the trauma behind the situations that were completely inappropriate that shouldn't have happened, what I realized was like, one, this is more than that. And then two, from just talking to men and growing up as I became a woman, I learned like men blow off steam by that. They it's it's a part of their mental health for them. Like, even if we don't see it that way, and even if sometimes they can have unhealthy characteristics or habits that make that toxic, tumultuous, or dishonest, just that act and just the pure act. We're not talking about how they go about getting the girls or what they do, the lying or anything else, just that act. They can compartmentalize, and that is something like a sport or something they do to relieve themselves and to like zone out and let go, and they don't have shame about it. And I do admire that because I do think that that is with healthy context, expectations, and parameters, that is perfectly fine. I think, in terms of like what I admire and love about men in regards to men's mental health, is I really, you know, I respect and and I can admire the man who, like you said, addresses his mental health and who is working on it actively, who has high self-awareness, who is doing all of the things that he can do that work for him or discovering what works for him. But I also strongly, strongly admire the man who struggles right now. And I can say this looking at both sides of the coin. This is true for my life, and you know me, so you could put probably faces and places to the things I'm talking about. But on the one hand, there are men in my life who, you know, they're working on it in their own way, they're very open about it. They, you know, can say the right things and they can have discussions about it, and they seem like they're doing what they can to work on it, or either they're settling, settling into being complacent and trying not to be a bad person, right? Then on the other hand, there's like the the male who doesn't say anything, who's the I'm it's okay, it's getting better, it's fine. Suffering silence, suffering silence, and then has to have the hard breakdown to say, like, I'm lost, I don't know what I'm doing. This is hard, this hurts, I'm stuck, this sucks. I don't know how to get out of it. And I really because we're in a time where it's being talked about so much now, like mental health, emotional health, men's healing. If you are tracking what's happening in the digital space, it highly compares to what's happening in political space, right? We have someone in office who's that crazy, and so the need to talk about men's mental health.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Talk about being able to compartmentalize in the bad way.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Right. That's the example that I was referring to when we started of when you go so far left. But now men are starting to talk about it. They're openly having healing groups, chess groups, all kinds of men's circles. And so I really admire the dude who's out there who says, you know what, I'm having a breakdown, I'm having a breakthrough, and this is hard because I know I've been saying I got it together, I look like I got it together, I do mostly all things right, but in my head and in my feelings, I am a complete mess.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Right. I I honor that. Well, and the thing is, is like nobody has it together. And for people who are like, oh, my life is perfect and I have I have it all together. It's like, but what are you really hiding? And now if you are somebody who has it all together, you didn't just get there magically, like you did the work to get there. Because there's I'm like, there are probably folks who have gone through life unscathed and are still, you know, have their rose tinted glasses on and everything is right in the world, and that's great, you know, like bravo that you have gotten through life um with no traumas or negative experiences that have changed your perspectives and things like that. But there's just no way to be in a place of good mental health without putting in a lot of work. Like you really have to, it's not easy and it's ugly and it's hard, and you know, but there's an there's a light at the end of the tunnel, sort of you know, sort of speak. It's like when you hit like the bottom of the barrel and you're having to admit to yourself that you need like help and things like that, you know, like you're just getting into it. You're like, and it takes years to actually get through to the other side. And I and I almost it almost feels like there's no, I don't want to say like there is no other side, because I it's for me in my mind, I'm like life is just a continuous progression, like you're always and maybe it's just me, because like right where I I think the Sun Lover War, we are all very like self-critical, or we're our own hardest critics, right? So I just kind of always feel like there's gonna be something to find that you can improve upon, and that's well, yes, improve upon, but I do think that there is a crossroads that we come to, and part of this is that attribute is attributed to my own personal experience, but also from my professional work.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

There is a point at which we be we can begin to stabilize. Yes, you're always healing because there's always something that can come along and be hurtful. So you're right, I totally agree with you that it's there's not this end game, like you reach this point at which you're completely healed and nothing else can ever happen and unheal you. The pot of gold, yeah, but there is a pot of gold though. But I so I don't think that the rainbow necessarily ends, but I think there's a lot of pots of gold along the way. And what I mean by that is when we were talking about energy, right? Masculine and feminine and the balancing of the two, right? When you reach a certain point where you are self-aware and you have had enough in your healing journey to get to the point where you can balance those, that's a pot of gold. Um, when we talk about compartmentalization, understanding intimacy versus physical touch and interaction, when you can calibrate those two and have a deep rooted sense of honesty around how that feels for you. Not that you have to come to one conclusion or another, but just being very clear within yourself and very grounded in where you stand, that's another pot of goal. When you can go through things and you grow through things, that's the biggest part of goal. Like I know me today is definitely a healed version of who I was. Yes, there are things that I'm now healing through that have happened now, but I'm not healing per se from the things that have already happened. And I'm also not dealing with things the same way that I used to because I healed so much, because I implemented those practices. And so I do believe that you get to a point where there is a shift that happens, right? And so um you it empowers you to make better choices and to move in different ways and to have better relationships, right? So some of the things that happen don't have to be repeated. Um, but I do think that it is an ongoing journey because we are living. So there's always going to be something. Um, I just don't think that those something should always cause a low. If that's where you know the mental health really needs substantial work, is when there's always something happening, and then it always causes you to reach that, like causes the person to reach that same or similar low. You know, like I ride the tide, but I ain't going back under. I ain't been under and I don't know how long we we just don't do that. You know, like I'm not letting myself go there. I dug too far and too high, you know, and and found a way to get on the to get back on the on the boat, if you will, to where now it's like I refuse, I can't drown.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Yeah. Well, and then that's another good thing about therapy, also, is that you're taught those re like those tools to um not go back under, you know, like how to get through whatever the bump in the road is. So like I'm just um when it comes to mental health, like the best thing anybody can do for themselves is to get a therapist and to be kind of be open about it, right? Like the only way to really start removing the stigma, it has lessened, but it's still people aren't very open about it. Society has not acclimated to it, right? Like, you know, like some businesses have adopted mental health days, some are like, you know, stringent on just giving you whatever the law requires, if that but that's just it too, is the fact that it's not acknowledged and supported in your employment. Like that's part of it.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Like, no, you're I mean, I think you are correct. Like the fact that it the fact that it is something that men don't talk about as often, it's not something that always comes up in relationships, and it's not something that is highly supported at work, really limits each of our individual ability to address it. Um, which brings me to another question. Like, why do you why do you think a lot of couples may be starting to now talk about mental health together? But I feel like that's just a lot of what I tend to see on my social platforms and engagement because that's the kind of stuff that I track. But I feel like in the real world, people are either toxic towards each other, in like kind of a similarly healed space or healing points, similar healing points of their journey. So it's like, well, we both already do yoga or fasting or you know, like, or they just don't talk about it. So I want to know, like, it's kind of a twofold thing because I feel like they do go hand in hand so far is like, why do you think that they don't why do you think we don't talk about this stuff in relationships with our partners? Um, because we'll talk about it with our friends, but also do you think that women make men sick just a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Okay, well, hold on. Let me just let me if the viewers can or the listeners could see my face. One the part of the stigma to like mental health is there's a shame aspect. So, like in a relationship, right? Uh, you may not put it out, you know, as a topic of conversation because well, and then this is it too. Let me just it's so hard to answer questions in a general term because one, if you're in a healthy relationship, you are able to talk about mental health without fear of judgment or feeling shame. Like if you're in a healthy relationship, you are feeling supported by your partner, and then you know, so if we're talking about a healthy relationship, then those things shouldn't be there. And the conversation of mental health should be, you know, a topic that you can have and feel safe and secure having it. You have a partner, and it's so hard because I'm like, you can just tie this into so many different things. If you're somebody who's insecure and have a fear of judgment, or like, oh, is this person going to think that I'm weak because I have mental health? Because that's just it is like what are the stigmas that come with mental health? It's shame, it's weakness, you know, like you're not you're not strong. There it and so it just depends. Like in a relationship, if you're in a healthy relationship, this should not be a topic that can't be openly spoken about. If you're in a relationship, I look so I'm not in a relationship, and but I can tell you that like my mental health has typically been something that I keep to myself. One, because one of my things I struggle with is vulnerability, right? And you have to be vulnerable in order to talk about certain things, and so for me, like I'm look, I'm pretty much at an age where I don't care too much about judgment anymore. So when I'm like getting to know somebody, because you know, I'm I'm dating or whatever, I'm I'm openly having the conversations, I'm not spilling trauma to the person who I'm getting to know, right? Because there's, and we'll talk about this in another episode, the floodlighting we were talking about, right? Like people who use their traumas as manipulation and just barf all of those things uh prematurely, you know, for other purposes. But like I'm open to like I'm fine to have conversations about therapy and being in therapy and advocating for therapy. I'm uh, you know, open like to having conversations, but you know, like I'm pretty self-aware and I know where my areas of improvement are. And I'm on, you know, like I take medication. And so those are things that I used to hide. Like I would just keep to myself. In fact, I was in a relationship with somebody, it was like a three-year relationship, and I think for our first 12 months, even into when we started living together, this person didn't know I was taking medication and had no idea about my mental health um journey that I was on. You know, it's it's hard to talk about. And but I'm also gonna say, like, I was that relationship, my partner I felt would have judged me. And so I didn't exactly feel safe to share that information. So, like going forward, being in a state of if if I share these things with you and you're gonna judge me or whatever, then that clearly you're not the right person for me, anyways. Because I need to be in a relationship where I can talk about these things and feel safe to do so.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

Um, first of all, girl, you was tripping. You were tripping, you cannot be living with somebody and don't tell them you take your medication. Lord, let the person never find me who wants to share space and rent. And you don't want to tell me you take your medication. Let me let you please, please, Gila. Just be delivery, deliver yourself from that before you ever find me. Um, I do think that you can be in a healthy relationship though and not disclose that you have mental health challenges. Now, that part I'm on board with you lost me when you said the medicine. I'm like, friend, no. But I understand, but I understand that you didn't share it because you felt that you would be judged. Um, I think that does go back to what we were saying or what you were saying rather about like healthy relationship, right? If it's healthy, then I should be able to feel like I'm not gonna be judged. If I feel like I'm gonna be judged, then why am I moving in with you? You know, all these things that make so much more sense in hindsight. If if was a fifth, we all be tipsy. But um, but as far as like not sharing your mental health challenges while in a relationship, I do think there are people who can have healthy relationships and not necessarily share those challenges because mental health is such an interpersonal, deep thing. It's a private thing, it's not. Something that is um immediately contingent. Now, that is immediately dependent on someone else. Now, there are contingencies because I've been around people who made me sick, made me crazy, made me unhealthy, made me feel insecure. Of course, I feel like I contributed, I believe in supreme accountability. So I feel like I contributed because I allowed myself to be around those people, right? And to be in those relationships. But yeah, their behaviors were toxic. And when I got away from them, it was like, oh my God, why does my head feel so much better? Why is my skin clearing up? You know, you get away from somebody bad for you, and everything just glows up. But I do think that it's such a deep thing, even though it's not being shunned as much now socially, people still feel a level of shame or discomfort. And it's hard to talk about something that you can't put words to. Now, with that being said, I feel like women often are expressive, they are quiet women, but I do feel like some of it is like women can make men sick because there's not always a space created. And I'm talking about healthy relationships. I'm talking about where the man is showing up for the woman. I'm not talking about imbalanced relationships, but in situations where it's healthy, I do feel like sometimes, just like if we were talking about women's mental health, right? I would have things I could say about what men do to make us crazy, but that's not this cup of tea. I do feel like there are some things that women can do more of to contribute to creating an environment that is safe for their male partner to disclose their mental health. Now, the man still has the responsibility to do it and to do the work, but I feel like there are certain things that can create a healthy space. Like saying things like, I know you ain't scared, you ain't you, you not a man, like the whole you're not a man phrase, using that so loosely can be daunting, you know, because well, that's traumatizing to a man, like yeah, because you're not creating a space for them for them to just feel like if something happened outside of your avatar, then you would still respect them and consider them as a man, and they will correlate that no matter what you say. You can say you're not a man because I had to go get somebody to fix the washing machine, and in his mind, he's like, and I can't fix my mental health, so I'm not gonna be a man if I tell you that too. You know what I mean? So it's like, let me just pay this bill and give and make sure the plumbing, you know what I mean, plumbing, play Yahtzee. Let me pay this bill. If y'all don't know, y'all can catch another episode. I've already explained it. But let me pay this bill and play Yahtzee, and she'll continue to see me as a man because I already struggle with seeing myself as a man because of these things I'm dealing with inside my head. I don't need somebody else to affirm it. So that's that's just what I mean by like women not creating a healthy environment, you know, not not listening. And that too is another thing. Like some women just don't listen. And if you won't listen to somebody saying, Hey, can we not spend so much so we can budget? Hey, can we maybe not go out to turn up and let's take walks in the park? Hey, can we maybe not watch TV and read a book? Like, sometimes those are men's ways of saying, Hello, my brain is on overdrive and I need to do some different things. I would love to do it with you because I don't want to do it myself, or I don't know how to do it, or we do everything together. And when women just be on airplane womaning, you know, just like no, because I said it, it's fine, and you know, me, me, me. Yeah, you just kills the space again.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

That just goes along with being in a healthy relationship with somebody who you can be vulnerable with and not fear judgment, and that's like a perfect example of it. You can't expect people to be mind readers, and that's the biggest flaw. Like, that's something that is a big flaw in women, right? Like, we just want we want our guy to just pick up on our signals, and this is why I think it's important to be in a relationship. Part of being in a healthy relationship is being able to express your needs in a way that is just cut and dry, not where you're making it a riddle, and your partner has to figure out what you are saying. So the whole do women make men crazy, yeah, just about as much as men make women crazy. That's fair. That's fair. It's such a two-way street because men view women as such complicated creatures because we're emotional and you know, because we're, you know, overthinkers or whatever. But whenever I think about men, I'm like, we aren't neither neither species is simple. But I'm like, listen to Brian Adams music, you know, to really love a woman, you have to blah blah blah. I'm like, the writing is on the wall. No, uh well, to me, it's just like it's uh we're not as complic, like I think men overcomplicate women in oh yes, they uh thinking. I'm sorry, men are a mess too. They're neither, neither one, but the thing is, is uh women aren't as complicated as men make us out to be. It's just because, and this is you know what, I'm not even gonna go down this road because this is an entirely full episode of a toilet.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

We will be coming back to this topic of like complic the complications with love, but because I do feel that we are both complicated. I do agree with you though that some men make it seem like women are too complicated, and I think that's just their way of excusing their indiscretions and inappropriate behavior. So we we won't even get into that. But what I do think is something that I hear across the board that is now becoming a cliche, I feel like that I want to get into. This is like kind of like one of the last touch points I wanted to make sure we get in was the phrase, it looks different for everybody. Because you hear men say it like when men get out of relationships or get into relationships, and some of it is related to like their mental health challenges, you know. Well, oh, it just looks different for me. You know, she chose to go and like work on herself, and I start going to the club and being with all these women, but that was my way of like escaping, and it's like, no, you're trying to take that phrase and abuse it.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

So I want to know being accusatory and not taking any accountability, correct?

SPEAKER_01 50:53

But I think that so many people use it, it's worth addressing this whole phrase, and I'll tell you what I mean, and then I would love to get your take. But like this whole idea behind healing looks different for everybody. I feel like it does.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

I agree with that. Everyone's journey is different. You can never, it's apples and oranges. You can have people with similar journeys. You know, let me stop and let me let you finish.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

No, by all means, you already cut me off. You go right on ahead. I'll say what I have to say next.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

Well, your journey of healing does look different because your traumas are different, you as a person are different, and what what what works for one person is not going to necessarily work for another. So, and I don't know, I feel like it's very hard to generalize anything, especially when it comes to mental health, because it does it does look different for for other people. I can assure you that what like my mental health journey looks like compared like to yours, there there may be similarities in them, but they're completely different. I didn't experience things that you have, and you haven't experienced things that I have, and so therefore, it is going to be different.

SPEAKER_01 52:25

Do you feel complete in that? You done I mean, we'll see. I'm like, You done you good? Um I'm good. Y'all, she went off on me just now. Y'all gotta get up in the digital lounge. We need a little boxing ring sound up in here because it's like ding ding ding. I didn't even get to say nothing. She's like, agreed. I was like, you know what I'm gonna say? You're like, I'm not even finished with my thoughts. I just posed the question. I didn't even say my perspective, but okay. Um, sis laid it out. Okay, I I see you, friend.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

What's your perspective?

SPEAKER_01 53:01

My perspective, friend, is that the journey, the journey. So when people are saying healing looks different for everybody, they're leaving out the key part about the journey having variances, but the principles being very universal. The journey may look different for everybody, but the principles are very universal. Those those things apply. Those those things apply. That's like that's like you know, um, money in the bank. We may all have a different type of account. We may all have a different balance, but there's the account and there's money, and that's universal. So, what I mean by that, um, if healing is the account, the money is going to be the same. Are you having a health? Are you having a healthy interaction or balance or or cohabitation of your physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical health? That's that's to start. Like, do those things cohabitate well? Do they live well together? If not, then I don't care what the journey looks like, you ain't really getting far. You know, do you have a healthy way to communicate your emotions? Do you know how to communicate in a healthy way? Are you able to speak and listen? Do you feel heard when you speak? When you don't feel heard, how do you address that? Are you able to be vulnerable and transparent? And do you know what the difference is? Like, do you do you have practices, active habits that you partake in that help you balance and manage your mental health and wellness that that make deposits into your wealth bank? And I don't care if it's yoga or boxing or running or sunbathing, you need you have to have something telling me, Oh, well, I just don't do nothing. Well, you just don't get far. Your count, your count balance is low. Okay, friend, you can't, you need to get your monies up, your your your wealth, your uh mental wealth monies, you need to get it up, and those things are universal. So when people are saying, like, I hate that I hate this phrase now because people are using it as an excuse not to do the work. So when I'm hearing people saying, Well, because you know, healing looks different to everybody, shut up, shut up, because I don't care, I don't care, I don't care how the journey looks. There's still some things you need when you travel. What do you have to take? You need water, you need something on your feet to be able to walk, you need a destination, you need rest stops, you know, you need direction. Don't don't come to me with the it looks different for everybody because I feel like people are using that as a load of crocker crap to not do the work. And plain and simple is if you don't go anywhere, you don't get anywhere. And mental health and wellness is a journey, and you have to go through certain things in order to get there. So that is what blows my buttons clearly. Yes, it the journey will look different for everybody, but there are universal requirements to reach to reach a few milestones, and so I just I just want people out there to be clear and to to like do that work, and especially men, like correlating this back to men's mental health because a lot of men think that going to the gym is gonna work it out, going in and hanging out with friends will work it out, that having positive male interactions alone will work it out, that being just with their girlfriend or wife alone will work it out, that doing well work or making money. Yeah, band-aids, or I mean, well, in good proximity, those things are very healing, but when you individualize and prioritize them and don't have a healthy balance of the other things, you need all those things, is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

The man out there, catch this, bro.

SPEAKER_01 56:52

Like, catch it, bro. You you need all the things look good, feel good, smell good, be good, have a good thing, those are all surface, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

Well, I mean, and those are superficial things though, and and it's like uh well, and the thing is, is like you go to the gym and you look good and uh and you spend time, those are just dopamine hits to get you well, no, they uh well one because the person who doesn't go to the gym who's obese, I guarantee you they're not healthy, they have a bad drive, they're not their their dopamine hits are coming from food, and yeah, that's not healthy, but those things all to me like you know look good, yes, because there are people who subscribe to the look good feel good, but again, that's dopamine. That's and it doesn't heal anything, it doesn't address the root cause, it doesn't address it doesn't it well it doesn't like if you have a trauma going to the gym is not gonna heal you from a trauma, it it's not like it's not going to heal you, okay. So, but here's the thing depending on the damage first of all depends on the trauma, right?

SPEAKER_01 58:09

It depends on the trauma, but also I do want to point out the fact that physical health is connected to mental health because true a hundred percent. So it's not surface, it's not just surf, it's not just surface because y'all can't see what I did to her, but I gave her this signal.

SPEAKER_00 58:31

It's not me to shut up and listen.

SPEAKER_01 58:34

It's not just surface because there are things that happen in the gym beyond dopamine, right? So when you're working out, one, it's helping your physical body, your heart, it's channeling your energy. It's also a place where you can break things down mentally. There's times when I've been in the gym and I've been lamenting over something at my desk or in the field or wherever else in my car, which is like my safe space. And I'll get in the gym and I'm like, I don't know why this feels so much more clear now. I just have time to pick it apart. It's just me and the treadmill. So it is not just surface level. I strongly believe that all these things work together. It may seem like it because it's connected to an outward result that you can see, but there are things that happen much more deeper. When you are in the gym and you're getting fit and you're working out, if you're serious about your working out, you're gonna watch what you eat. A lot of people stay depressed because they're not eating the right stuff, and that is directly connected to healing trauma. I guarantee you, you can do studies. The person who's going to eat fast food all the time, and I know you know I get on my kick about fast food, but I'm just saying the person who's going to eat fast food all the time, or who doesn't fast, or who's not drinking water, a lot of their uh the grip that their trauma has on them is connected to the toxicity in their bodies. Like the world is already trying to make us sick with fake vegetables and fruits. The least we can do is feed ourselves good food as best as possible. So if I'm putting crap in my body and then I'm not doing anything with my body, my body is going to feel bad and it's going to fire only the negative signals to my brain, which we already talked about is Debo. And you gotta you gotta not let him scare you to get your bike back. And how are you gonna be in power to fight to get your bike back if come on? So it's not, I think all things go together.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

Well, yes and no, but this is also why everyone's healing journey looks different. Because for you, going to the gym is a place for you to unpack things in your mind where that's not the case for everyone. Like for me personally, that's that doesn't work for me. Like going to the like I can know that if I'm working out, I'm doing a health benefit to myself, and that's fine. But typically when I'm working out, I'm like, how much longer do I have to do this? Like, I'm doing it for my health, but I'm not unpacking anything. And I think that that's why that like that's part of why I say everyone's journey looks different, is because you are gonna find tools, resources, things that work for you versus things that don't. Yes, I a hundred percent agree that being healthy ties into your mental health, your the food that you consume ties into your mental health. Every aspect of what you intake is going to have a direct correlation to your mental health, and it's also gonna directly correlate to your output, right? Like if we're computers, right, what are we taking in? What we take in is gonna have a direct, you know, then result of what we're putting out into the world and every relationship's work, you know, what however you want to look at it. Part of your mental health journey is simply finding what works for you, how you process, and and that's part of the journey is is is finding your I really want to find something cool to equate this to, but I don't think I can have to think about it. But just like, yeah, I mean I don't know what I mean, but that's you know exactly what you're mean. I mean, you said it perfectly. I'm looking for a word that's just it is like I'm looking for, and I feel like I have it, but it's not coming to the front of my mind.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:27

But yeah, well, I think the two key words that you gave us were tools and balance, finding your tools and having a healthy sense of balance about how you use them. I think that that is very individualized, like you said, it's gonna look different for everybody, um, which is again why I agree the journey is different for everybody, but the there's some universal principles to the process. Yeah, like so. For the person who's who's who comes across this and you just been stuck and you've been in a rut, I just want to encourage you, like, get out of a rut, get out of the rut, get out of the rut, get get some get some shoes on and get on the journey. Whatever that looks like to you. Some people like to travel and flip-flops, some people like tennis shoes, some people need hiking boots. I don't know what thing works for you. It's gonna be different for all of us, but find your thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:18

Um, but well, and you don't have to figure it out on your own. No, like a lot of the thing is is like people don't know what their first step is. And so my advice would be talk to a mental health professional, get yourself in therapy because that person is going to be your tool and resource for. I mean, it's almost like your your guide, your journey guide is your therapist. So, and that's somebody who you can tell all your secrets to, and you know that they're really not gonna circle circulate in a friend group, or you know, like you can be your most vulnerable and all those things that you fear you don't typically fear with your therapist.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

So and it won't be used against you, too. Like it won't, it won't be because sometimes that happens too, like it might not end up in a group text, but it'll come back up in one of those couples' conversations or with a friend, or you know, like girl, because that's why you like don't do that, which is not healthy, anyways. But I'm just saying I know people are sometimes precautious, even if they didn't have to be. So we will um just continue to encourage each other. But for the person who catches this, I mean, get in the comments, get in the caption, make sure that you check out the resources that we have. We definitely want you to, I mean, see something, say something, but also know thyself, trust thyself to know that sometimes you cannot just trust in yourself, and that is completely okay. Like, don't be afraid to reach out and talk to somebody and get help, don't let money be the reason. There is more than one way. I know they hate this saying now, but there's more than one way to skin a cat.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:02

So well, right, and so like even drop in the comments like what is your one roadblock to even starting your journey? Because that's we can take that and talk about resources maybe in another episode, because a lot of the time it's insurance, it's affordability, and there are just so many resources now to talk to somebody for free, you know. So, yeah, like put that in the comments. What's your roadblock? What's what's keeping you from taking that first initial stop?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

Yep. And then lastly, I would say um, I know we're giving you guys some homework, but this is this stuff is important. This affects how we show up for ourselves, for our kids, how people, you know, make sure that they can really live. This is the reason why so many people, and I mean it's sad because we've seen so many men as of late unaliving themselves. This is a real thing, you know, especially when we're looking at men's mental health. I know, and particularly like in the black community, it's real bad. Like, this is not stuff that we talk about at all. And for black men to address it is like death. Like, they don't like no, I yeah, I'm good. I'm a man, baby, I'm good, you know. So I just encourage everybody, regardless of race, creed, color, gender, preference, like get help. But the last thing that I challenge you guys to do is to love you, even if you're not in a space where you can love you, recognize when other people are not loving you right. Because that doesn't help either. So people who are not treating you right should not be treating you wrong, no matter what space you're in. I don't, even if you don't love yourself, even if you don't treat yourself right, even if you have all of the issues, the self-esteem, the mental health, the emotion, you take meds, you don't speak up, you broke. I don't care. People should be treating you with value, love, kindness, compassion, and consideration. And you deserve to be around people who do that, or or to remove everybody and not have to be around people who do that. And then if you are around people who are treating you good, talk to them to those people and open up, y'all. There's so many people who suffer in silence, who have unaligned themselves or who leave relationships who, man, don't I know it, don't I know it? Like, I'm not even gonna go there with y'all, but yeah, like use the people who are around you. If you feel somebody is a safe space and they're a good person to you, do not feel like you have to isolate or do it alone. We are not made to live alone. We are communal people, we are humans. Just take care of yourself and somebody else. And if you can't take care of yourself, be around somebody else who does. And if somebody already is, don't alienate, right, girl.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:58

I we can keep going and going.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

We'll come back to this another day. We're gonna we're gonna get in the lounge again. So, y'all make sure y'all leave us comments, tell us the things you do want to talk more about, whether it is how how the Nookie helps your neurology, because I would love to hear more about that, about how Nookie helps neurology. We could definitely have a conversation around that. So we'll we'll we'll come up with more creative Kelly and T with tree things to talk about. Um, but in the meantime, we hope that you guys have just been fulfilled, you know, and that you are more inclined to take care of your mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, and financial because ooh, being broke make you feel bad. Don't nobody oh, we're gonna talk about that another day too. We're gonna get into finances. Uh please don't be broke, child. It's just depressing. So, but take care of yourselves.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:55

I'm tree with the T signing off, and I am Creative Kelly with nothing else left to say. We'll see y'all on the next ground, and I see you at the time. Bye.