The Feral Fandoms Podcast
Why do some stories explode into global fandoms while others fade away? What makes readers ship characters, obsess over merch, and turn books into cult phenomena?
The Feral Fandoms Podcast dives deep into fandom culture — from Twilight to K-pop, Supernatural to BL dramas — to uncover the psychology, rituals, and chaos that fuel obsession. Hosted by author and cult-brand strategist Onley James and cohost Shannon Ezzell, each episode blends pop culture analysis, fandom breakdowns, and witchy insights with practical takeaways for writers and creators.
If you’re a burned-out author, indie creator, or fandom fan who wants to stop hustling and start building a devoted audience, this podcast is your initiation. Expect ship wars, fandom lore, marketing secrets, and unfiltered chaos, plus the tools to turn your work into a world fans can’t quit.
Because readers buy books. But fandoms buy everything.
The Feral Fandoms Podcast
From Book To Screen: Why Heated Rivalry Works And What It Means For LGBTQ+ Romance
A queer hockey romance just took over our feeds, and we’re here for the why behind the wildfire. Heated Rivalry moves like a sports highlight and burns like a love story, stretching across a decade of drafts, road trips, and pressure that never lets up. We dig into what the show gets right about chemistry on screen, how careful cinematography and a queer-led creative vision elevate intimacy, and where the adaptation knowingly departs from the books. No fluff, no laugh track—this is prestige romance with a pulse.
We also get real about the ripple effects. When HBO puts muscle behind LGBTQ+ romance, the impact hits more than timelines—it hits author dashboards, bookstore algorithms, and the courage meter for creators on the fence. We compare trad publishing reach and licensing power with indie speed and control, unpack what rights really mean when your story travels to TV, and talk through the non-negotiables we’d set to protect character identities and moral tone. There’s nuance in the casting discourse, too: the legal limits of asking about sexuality, the ethics of representation, and the simple truth that performance and respect must carry the role.
If you’re a fan, you’ll get context on timeline choices, spicy scenes, and the moments that sparked debate without drowning the heart of the story. If you’re a writer, you’ll find a blueprint for making your romance filmable: character-forward beats, clear stakes, and intimacy that reads as story, not spectacle. Along the way, we share a candid look at shop chaos, special edition boxes, and the behind-the-scenes grind that keeps the lights on when a fandom goes feral.
Love what you hear? Follow the show, share it with a friend who needs a new obsession, and drop a review so more listeners can find us. Want deeper craft and business strategy? Join our Patreon at patreon.com/theburnedoutmuse for lessons, workbooks, and audio you can play on the go.
Want the uncut chaos + bonus episodes? Join us inside the cult at Patreon.com/TheBurnedOutMuse. Or find everything else (Discord, socials, freebies) at linktr.ee/theburnedoutmuse.
I don't even remember what number we're on anymore, so I'm just gonna say, hey guys, welcome to the Feral Fandoms Podcast. I'm only James, gay romance author, fandom guru, just to the stars. And I'm here with my niece and my co-host.
SPEAKER_01:I'm your niece today. Oh, I love that. It's because we're just coming off Thanksgiving. We're feeling like family because we just did a family event. Just Shannon, her niece. That's it. That's my intro.
SPEAKER_00:She's also my PM. She's my claim. My bodyguard at all the cons.
SPEAKER_01:Bodyguard. Shop manager.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, definitely.
SPEAKER_01:Email. Email writer. Yeah. Because we're giving me anxiety.
SPEAKER_00:The person who I send all the emails to before I'm like saying stuff that's wrong. Because I don't know what that happens in the shop. Oh my God. I know so little about my own business that I had to provide the copyright information for my books, for my Nola Harker books, an agency that was asking about it. And so I just put what I thought it would say. And she's like, hey, no biggie, but in your books it says something else. And I was like, oh.
unknown:Oh.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I'm sure the books are right because Molly does those. And she also does the copyright. So when Molly says it's probably right. And whatever I say is just me guessing.
SPEAKER_01:In fact, Molly at onlyjames.com, you may want to just call her.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Who's like, I don't know why you're even asking me for things. Like to be honest. I write the books and then I go, here you go. I can't be held responsible for anything else. Yeah.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_00:So anyway shop. So today I thought we would talk about heated rivalry since it is literally everywhere. It is all over.
SPEAKER_01:I do know a little bit about it. So I do know that these were books, but they're traditionally published.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, Karina Press, which is an offshoot of Harlequin. So it was released originally in 2019. Now I'm not super well versed in the game changer series. I know heated rivalry because it sits next to my books in a ton of lists. So I'm always like, oh hey. Because it's a really cute and cartoon cover, level two hockey cover.
SPEAKER_01:Which we love.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. We love cartoons.
SPEAKER_01:Um love cartoon covers.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, so I'm always seeing it. And I knew it was a hockey. I don't do the sports ball romances, even hockey, which I love. Like I just, I don't know. I'm just not at like a sports romance. Honestly, it's because there's so much homophobia in a lot of the sports romances. Probably not anymore, but like when I first started reading it, like and even in the show, like every single insult in the first two episodes of the show was like gay references.
SPEAKER_01:This is a male romance. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. But they're two hockey players in an extraordinarily testosterone-driven field. So this is supposed to be taking place originally. The romance starts in 2008 and spans like 10 years. That's right. So when they first meet, they're both being drafted into the NFL. And they're like the number one in both of their specific wherever they're from, their schools or wherever they're playing. And so, of course, they're instantly pitted against each other. Ooh, which one's better? And right away, the beautiful Russian boy, Ilya, is very much giving the wanna fuck energy to the other guy who is just, bro, we're in a locker room, and I'm not sure you're serious right now, and I don't want to get my ass beat kind of energy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There's a lot of playing or like going around the for at least. But they have they literally span the first eight years in episodes one and two. That's how fast it time jumps. It's just a boom-boom.
SPEAKER_01:It's not your whole career NFL career?
SPEAKER_00:You would think, but that's I guess that's probably why she chose it like when them literally getting drafted. Okay. So that they're really young, so they can Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think like 32, you got that that brain problem.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I don't know. Some of them go a long time. Like, I don't think Wing freaking retired until he was practically actually retirement age.
SPEAKER_01:If I remember correctly, Wayne Gretzky kept retiring and then coming back. I thought that was hockey. Oh, yeah. Don't ask me about sports ball. I don't know. I know Travis Kelsey. Ask me about Kelsey, brother. I can tell you that. That's it. That's all I got.
SPEAKER_00:But I didn't none of us knew Heated Rivalry was even coming up until, I don't know, maybe four months ago. It could have even been. What's it on?
SPEAKER_01:What's it streaming on?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so it was originally to stream on Crave, which is a Canadian channel. But it blew up so hard on the internet that HBO bought the rights to it. So it's on HBO Max. Right? Imagine your book blowing up to the point where HBO is knocking on your door. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01:Imagine necessary evils on HBO. But like eight like Game of Thrones level production.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And that's what I okay. So this is the thing. Anytime there's a gay romance and it's not cutesy like Heartstopper or Love Simon, where it's just, oh, two little teen boys falling in love. Usually And that's okay.
SPEAKER_01:And we're okay with it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Usually it's shitty production. Usually it's like actors who are lesser known, which these two are also lesser known, but they're phenomenal actors. But like they just don't give it the care it deserves. And so with romance, you have to be careful because if it's acted poorly, it comes off as super cheesy. It doesn't matter how good the book is.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:The dialogue, if it's said wrong, is gonna come off so lame.
SPEAKER_01:Sometimes things in books come out better in your brain and when you're reading it than it would on the screen because you have a lot more narration in their head. You're more invested.
SPEAKER_00:Right. You're more invested. You know what they're thinking when it comes out of their mouth versus you're just watching it on the screen and you have no clue. That's why I guess Ilya's getting a lot of hate, the character, right now, because the people who read the books understand where he's coming from. He is Russian, his father is like extremely homophobic, like he's domineering, he's always in his face about if you don't win every time you're a loser kind of thing. So we have that kind of you get it in the show. Like it's not like they're hiding that part of it, but like you're not in his head, like living it.
SPEAKER_01:That's always the problem with book to movie. Always the problem with book to movie.
SPEAKER_00:But they're doing a great job of giving you all of the information, and that's I think why they didn't made it a series and not books or not a movie, so that they could actually take the time and do the story. These two acting it out, they're doing such a good job. I was actually genuinely impressed, not just because the chemistry is there, but because they had to do some insanely intimate scenes. Like you've seen how high heat my books are. Rachel Reeds are no different, and the two actors are like on camera everywhere, joking around. They're like, oh, we put tongues in places and we put they think it's really they're hamming it up. This is our first big role. Um, but they did it all so well, and the chemistry is so there. And Ilya is like very dominant and very gur, like the almost morally gray, but not, and he pulls it off so well. And in one interview, they asked Hudson, who plays the non-Russian, why he thought his chemistry worked so well with Connor, who plays the other one. And he was like, Oh, the other guys were good, but Connor looked like he wanted to throw me up against a wall and fuck me. And I was like, God, okay, he understood the assignment 100%. He was like, I got this. And apparently Connor's from Texas, but he pulled off that Russian like it was his job. I don't know if he is Russian by way of Texas. That's literally his job. Yeah, that is his job.
SPEAKER_01:When acting is literally your job.
SPEAKER_00:Excellent work, Connor. Good job.
SPEAKER_01:I love when I do my job, and you did it, Connor. You did it.
SPEAKER_00:Good job. But yeah, so the story's great. The oh my god, the cinematography is beautiful. And I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the director is gay. Like, I think he put the care and effort into it because like he was invested in the story. And this is the problem now is that they're facing backlash because a lot of people are like, gay actors should play gay characters. And the act and the and the director was like, hey, I'm not legally allowed to ask somebody's sexuality before I give them a job. Like, it's illegal. Right. And he's as long as the chemistry is sold, and as long as they take it seriously, and as long as they're not making fun of the role, like acting exists, it's acting, or pretending. Yeah, and then on the writer side of it, a lot of male gay romance authors are mad that a woman, yeah, her book was the one that got chosen.
SPEAKER_01:It's that's we're we're never gonna beat that. Yeah, this just is what it is, it's always gonna be there. It's okay if we buy the books. It's okay. Yeah, we just can't write them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. But it's weird because all of us are low-key, probably a little jealous of Rachel Reid right now because we've all been. She's on fucking HBO. Yeah, what are you talking about? Like, she's on fucking HBO. But I'm just like, but see, that's good for everybody. It's good for business. That's more mainstream. We are not lying. My page reads are through the fucking roof. I've never seen page reads like this.
SPEAKER_01:She's because when they go to look up her book, they you eventually are gonna end up somewhere on their algorithm.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. On a rising tide boosts all ships or whatever. Yeah. And that's it. Like she's doing well, and because of that, our whole genre is being up now. And so good for her. Like, yeah, I don't begrudge her that at all, but it's just crazy that now all of a sudden this backlash and all of this like attention and stuff. I don't think she probably anticipated just how fast and how crazy it was gonna get. And I wonder how she's handling that. Because I think I would have to log off.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think I would just have to log off. I would be like, send me my run me my check. I'm deleting my Twitter and I'm just gonna write some books.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm gonna be in my bubble. I don't want to know. I don't want to know.
SPEAKER_01:Like when anything's consumed on a massive stage or a massive scale, there's always gonna be haters, haters in the industry, haters, people who just don't want to see that type of shit on screen, but like they could just literally turn it off. They don't haters, actors, oh she's a woman, this, that, or whatever. It is what it is. Imagine if your stuff, because your stuff's more taboo, more not taboo, but it's just darker.
SPEAKER_00:It's just darker than uh I will say that this is not a rom-com, which is good because so many of the movies we see, especially this time of year, any gay stories at all, it's gonna be uber cutesy whole hallmarks, and that's great. Don't get it twisted. Like, that's great, yeah. But like we never get any variety. The Asian BLs is because they span every genre. You get like your cutesy little ones, you get like your deep, disturbing ones, you get the dark ones, you get mafia, you get whatever. Because they actually created this entire genre, like that BL is what drives their economy, so they put the time and effort into it. And honestly, this right now, the entertainment industry has the opportunity to capitalize on this the same way Asia has by giving people what they want, and clearly people want more gay and queer romances, like they just do, not as the side character, right?
SPEAKER_01:Not as the quirky side character, not as the city. They're not giving it the sex in the city, the sex in the city treatment.
SPEAKER_00:I just I think we're all just tired of the stereotypes, and it's nice to see characters that aren't in that same box all the time because it feels like in Hollywood, especially, there's nothing new. They just reboot the same movies over and over again, the same framework over and over again. Literally, yeah, and nobody's going to the movies anymore. Everything's streamed now. So they have an opportunity, and I don't know if they'll take it, but I can tell you that I've seen so many people on threads being like, I'm gonna write my own gay romance now. I've seen like just so many people be like, Yeah, yeah, oh, I'm getting ready to write mine now. And I'm like, Great, do it, do it. Like, fucking, I think it's I think it's good for all of us, really.
SPEAKER_01:But it is a hundred percent because well, especially for you.
SPEAKER_00:But it's so intense. It's so intense. When I say I can't scroll a whole page without seeing heated rivalry, I'm not kidding. Like, I have a feeling in three weeks I'm gonna be like, if somebody says heated rivalry to me one more time, I'm gonna start twitching.
SPEAKER_01:Is it all out? Is the whole series out or are they doing it in?
SPEAKER_00:It releases every Friday. I almost just waited and binged it, but then that is what I like to do. Yeah, but then the reactor that I usually watch stuff with was like, Oh, I'm gonna watch the first two. And I was like, ah shit. All right, I'll watch it because I wanted to watch his reactions too, because I hadn't seen it. And this is one of the first ones that I'm like watching where I'm not watching it first and then watching it again with somebody else. And right, I was shook, I was blushing, and it takes a lot. I used to work for a porn company, it's hard to make me blush.
SPEAKER_01:You also come up with some blushworthy scenes yourself, but watching them get acted out, and that's the thing.
SPEAKER_00:If my book ever got made into a movie, I don't think I could watch it. I can't even listen to my audiobooks. Watching two people out, my god, I would kill myself. I like I my secondhand embarrassment, it wouldn't even be secondhand, it'd be first hand embarrassment this time.
SPEAKER_01:My god, your readers would love it, but they would also like good luck to whoever produces it, directs it, because they're gonna be like five, six, seven, eight. Good luck.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, my readers like actually to my face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like a guy said to me yesterday, he was like, So when's your book coming out as a movie? And I was like, bro, do you think I just have HBO on speed dial? And I'm like, you know what, guys, I'm gonna give it to you this time.
SPEAKER_01:Netflix, HBO, please, ladies. It doesn't happen. Well, and for an indie book, that would be really cool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it would be crazy. And I think that's what a lot of people don't understand is like the downside of Tradpub is that you make shit money if you're not selling shows. Yeah, the upside is that you have a much bigger audience because you're exposed in a lot more.
SPEAKER_01:There's a reason heated rivalry is so red because yeah, and there's 50 people trying to make deals for you that you don't even know what's going on. You don't even she probably didn't even know that was oh, she probably had an idea it was in motion, but she's doesn't have to do doesn't have to do is different. She doesn't have to do what you have to do, which is literally create.
SPEAKER_00:She has an agent. I guarantee you she has like and Harlequin's making the deals because Harlequin owns the rights. And Harlequin has a much bigger to bring to the table than you know any of us, even Rachel Reed. Like Rachel Reed's not calling up HBO or quick, it's whoever works with her. And like my entertainment attorney also works as an agent, and there's avenues to get there, but it's just a much harder sell as an indie than be as a trad pub. But inverse of that is that I make seven figures a year, and 75% of that, so my 90% of her royalties for her. And the characters are yours. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You could do HBO and then it would be your deal to make, not hard.
SPEAKER_00:Like, I mean, it's not like Rachel Reed didn't get money from everybody like for her story. They optioned the rights to that story. So I'm sure she as a person, they are still her characters, she's probably doing just fine uh financially.
SPEAKER_01:I ain't worried about her. She couldn't. I'm a little worried. She probably didn't know that show was gonna blow up like that, which is like amazing and fun, and you love to see it, but also the internet is so scary and people are so fucking mean.
SPEAKER_00:I know, but that's why like the bigger my TikTok gets, I'm like, oh, I don't want it to get too big. I don't want people to be too, I don't want too many people to notice because then it became then it becomes troll territory, and it's just it's hard. It's hard on the it's hard out on these streets.
SPEAKER_01:It's hard out here on these streets. The good news is like you're you don't really have uh anything terrible to up if they're MAGA, then they're gonna think you're terrible. But you've been on that woke shit since the 90s, so they really couldn't find anything on you like that.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, there is I do tend to run my mouth, so I'm sure I've misspoken, I'm sure I've made errors, like but it was never racist or homophobic.
SPEAKER_01:You might have said something. I can't imagine that I would. Like, no, you never did. I say I've been tracking you here. For you, girl. I was like, that ain't the meanest shit you ever said. It's the meanest shit you ever said that was like out of pocket, yeah. For depending on who you are and what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, normally I write a post, I read it, I reread it, I read it again. Half the time I delete it and just move on.
SPEAKER_01:Now, when it's not just you and 50 of your closest friends and family.
SPEAKER_00:No, I save all my shit talking for the DMs.
SPEAKER_01:And usually an audio file. Yeah, they'll find a way to expose that too. Uh all my shit's in the comment sections of TikTok. Find me.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I know you keep getting banned.
SPEAKER_01:At some point, they're just gonna ban your IP address or and your phone's like material number. You know what? And my productivity is gonna go through the roof.
SPEAKER_00:What happened? Oh, nothing. I was just I was checking. Sorry. Sorry. Like I said, I'm both slightly jealous and not at all of the attention. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:So she's on HBO, but then you're on HBO.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. It's like it's like being an attention whore, but at the same time being terrified of attention is a weird thing.
SPEAKER_01:Not good at critic. I'm really not good at criticism. That's why I don't create anything.
SPEAKER_00:Except for I suck at criticism. I just don't look at it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That is what you have to do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. If I did, I would never write again. Like, yeah, I have to tell myself all the time like you can't make everybody happy. Like, not everybody's gonna like your story, not everybody is meant to be the person who reads your books, like, you know. And some people live opinions of me is none of my business.
SPEAKER_01:180 million percent that is the case. And your readers aren't your readers' levy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, my readers do, which is crazy, but I appreciate it. Let's just go back to uh heated rivalry.
SPEAKER_01:Heated rivalry.
SPEAKER_00:If Netflix and HBO are smart, they're already working on like a gay romance division.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I think this came about because they were probably looking for something Bridgerton-like that they could like capitalize on.
SPEAKER_01:What's your dreamcast? Book one, Unhinged.
SPEAKER_00:See, it's hard because it's been so long now, but like originally Noah was based on Froy Gutierrez, who by the way, who by the way, his aunt reads my books. And she told him what did he say? He's like, Oh, really? That's hilarious. Okay. And she screenshotted it and sent it to me. I love it. She's like, Yeah, he thought it was really funny, you know. And now, of course, he's come out, so that actually makes it even better. Because he wasn't out when I originally cast him. He is a little old for Noah now because he's in his 30s and Noah's supposed to be in his early 20s. Yeah. But I well, not that Freud looks like he's in his I, you know, but anyway, but he was my original for Noah. I don't know, I don't know a lot of the younger actors now, so I don't even know what do some unknowns. Yeah, I think we would have to go for a completely unknown cast. Also, because I don't think a lot of big name actors would agree to the smut level that is in Unhinged.
SPEAKER_01:Which which you cannot let go of. And then, so what is what's our production style? Like we go in the who was that Cassie. Who were those people? God Sydney Sweeney was in it. That's how she got famous, the show. Oh. And anyway.
SPEAKER_00:Mean girls? No, well, no, that was the other girl, Frenet, whatever. No, what the hell was the name of that movie?
SPEAKER_01:It's a show, and they're all in high school. Anyway, so that's a super real or it's super realistic. We're going like a little bit more. It's Sydney Sweeney and the Zendaya. And oh, oh, oh, oh, euphoria. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Damn it. I don't know why I couldn't think of that. And I watched the first season of Euphoria.
SPEAKER_01:They're gonna be like 47. They're gonna be like 47 by the time the show's over.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It takes so long to get new seasons out of things. It takes so much.
SPEAKER_00:But it's crazy though, because Euphoria was depressing as fuck. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know who the scariest character in Euphoria was Zendaya's drug dealer? The like housewife lady. Dude, like she was so creepy.
SPEAKER_00:I was so worried for the the trans girl all the time. Yeah. I was so worried for her because I didn't know where they intended to go with it. And they always tend to brutalize the trans girl, you know? Like it's always like because they are at higher risk of being uh like abused. So I was like, oh, are they gonna go hyper-realistic? And is it gonna be like and I mean she did get into some situations that were like they all did in the show, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but they were all equal opportunity, like bad things happening. But I still was mostly worried about her because I was just like, oh, it's so dangerous. Like every time she left the house, I was like, oh god, is this the episode where something bad happens to her?
SPEAKER_01:But if if so unhinged would be season one, right? We have all the boys season two, yeah, yeah. Psycho BC.
SPEAKER_00:See, that's the problem, is though, if they they cast Unhinged, they would have to cast the entire series in the beginning in advance.
SPEAKER_01:How involved, how involved would you want to be? Are you on set? Are you in the are you in the dialogue writing room or are you just I trust you, run me my world?
SPEAKER_00:I don't think there's a world where they could let me.
SPEAKER_01:Hail Mary guy, I forget his name, somebody whale, I think, but I read Hail Mary, and he's like on set. He did the Mar The Martian too.
SPEAKER_00:Right, but isn't he also a trad pub author? Yeah, yeah, yeah. With a huge following, super huge, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:He's a New York Times bestseller. I am not perfect world. We're talking, we're in fantasy land. Okay. So in a couple of things. Come with me. Our feet are off planet earth. We're we are cat we're casted, and then they're like, all right, Martina, or only James. Are you interested? How deep into it do you want to be? Or would you rather get a general idea of the direction they're going, or do you want them to use your dialogue?
SPEAKER_00:Oh no, I definitely want I don't, I mean, it doesn't have to be exact, obviously, because just for time constraints alone, they would probably have to make some things, or maybe not, maybe they'll just do a six-episode series too. Uh more than anything, I think I would just have uh like provisions in place. You can't change this, you can't change this.
SPEAKER_01:What if they wanted to make switch some genders?
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. What if they wanted to make Freckles a girl? No, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There's no changing their genders, there's no changing their sexualities. Okay. They can change ethnicities. I don't care. Yeah, I don't care about that. It doesn't just apply. You're more you want to make sure that's what they're doing. They're all adopted, they don't need to look alike. Right, exactly. You know, and if they found an actor of a different ethnicity who they thought just really embodied, yeah. Great, fantastic, do it. Like, I'm never going to be that like crazy about it. I mean, obviously with Freckles, like, I'm, you know, he's a redhead. Like he's a very pale redhead. Yeah. Like, you know, and a lot of the ethnicities, like both Felix and Jericho, because they're brothers, are both half Chinese, half Mexican. I don't think you're going to be like, hi, we're only casting half Chinese, half Mexicans.
SPEAKER_01:So how much of the lot do you think they'd be willing to let go of? What if they said, what if they tone down some of the badness of the bad guys that get bad things happen to them? What if they wanted to lighten it up?
SPEAKER_00:I don't think they would do that because like then they would like it wouldn't be as morally gray. Right. You know what I mean? It would be more like these guys are just, you know, they're not killing for a speeding ticket. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So I think it would be. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01:Like, so you would want to be pretty involved in it because you'd be like, actually, no, actually, or would they change like the vibe of a character just by switching up some of the dialogue, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's really hard to say. Like, even now in Heated Rivalry, in the book, why can I not remember the other main character's name? Hudson is the actor, Hudson's mom in the show, makes this kind of like offhand homophobic joke, and not even a homophobic joke. She says something along the lines of, you know, fuck him, fuck him in the ass in a negative, go fuck yourself kind of way. And in the books, she's just super supportive, pro LGBT hockey mom. And so a lot of people were kind of taken aback by that because they were like, oh, are they gonna make her more of supervillain in this one? Or are they gonna make less supportive? A lot of people just were like, eh. And then a lot of people were mad because in sorry guys, a little bit of a spoiler. Turn it off. I'll tell you when you can turn it back on. Oh, wait, I can't, never mind. Yeah, but in episode two, one of them, Ilya's supposed to meet up with the other guy, but there's a blizzard, so he can't go. When he gets home, his what I thought might be his girlfriend, but I think is now more like a childhood friend, is waiting there wearing nothing but his hockey jersey, and they end up banging on the table. But they're not in a relationship yet. The two guys aren't in a relationship yet. They're kind of doing this weird on again, off again. They haven't even slept together, just kind of fooled around. So in it's in the book, like it's true to the narrative, but in my world, if I ever, ever attempted to put my character with another person after the other main character's already been introduced, they would slip my fucking throat. If Adam fucked somebody else after meeting Noah, done. Nobody would ever read another one of my books ever again. Ever. So they're very attached. Yeah, to me, I would be, I was like kind of shocked by that. And some people were like, Yeah, I wish they had cut that particular part out. Yeah. Which is kind of funny.
SPEAKER_01:So I wonder how involved she is. So because she's traditionally published, she probably has less of a say, you think?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know. I don't know how that would be. We don't know that we don't yeah. I think basically the more you sell, the more power you have, you know, because HBO wasn't involved from the jump, Crave was. Crave is from what I I don't really know much about Crave, but it sounds like their whole genre is just romance. Like they just make romance movies.
SPEAKER_01:Love it.
SPEAKER_00:Good for them. They were probably very much on task. Like they probably knew exactly what they wanted to do going into this.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it seemed like they really wanted to stay true to the actual story. And they must have had a good enough reputation where Harlequin felt comfortable handing over the story that it wasn't gonna be super cheesy and lame and badly acted, showgirl-esque, with acting so cringe, you just want to cry. It wasn't gonna be 365. It wasn't gonna be something that the internet watched in secret or made a joke out of. It was gonna be a good movie or show. Sorry, I keep calling it a movie. It's gonna be a good show. So maybe Rachel just didn't have uh much to complain about from the jump. So I don't really know. I'm sure eventually she'll crawl out of she'll crawl out of whatever you're doing fine, Rachel. She's hiding everything or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:You got a show on HBO, girl. Don't let the haters get you down. I support you.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, she might be loving it. She might, I mean, I don't know, Rachel. I've heard from a bunch of other people who do know her that she's super nice, that she's very kind. And I mean, that's always good because you never know. You want the right people getting famous, but it doesn't always happen. But you never know it goes on in people's houses. But like I said, since the first episode dropped, my page reads on Amazon have tripled. Tripled.
SPEAKER_01:I love it.
SPEAKER_00:Like I had 300,000 page reads for yesterday. Yesterday.
SPEAKER_01:Damn.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. One day. There was a time when that was my whole month.
SPEAKER_01:That'd be great though. Now I hope that come over to the website. Come, darlings.
SPEAKER_00:Come to play.
SPEAKER_01:Come to Patreon where I have more We've got acrylic stick.
SPEAKER_00:That's how we lure them in. Do you want to love acrylic stick? We've got sweatshirts.
SPEAKER_01:We've got hats.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. This is why Rachel Reed has a show and I'm a busy showing. We've got mugs.
SPEAKER_01:Technically, I'm shilling them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's true. I'm just like, hey, it's over here if you want it. And I'm like, get out of here. They love you. They fucking love you more than they love me. That's not true.
SPEAKER_01:That's not true.
SPEAKER_00:Uh somebody literally emailed me and was like, what can I do for Shannon? Because I just wanted to know how much I appreciate everything she does for me.
SPEAKER_01:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00:And I was like, Did you send her my cash out? I'm kidding. I was like, I was like, well, what do you what do you want to do for her? I was like, do you want to send her like a digital gift card? Do you like, what are you asking me?
SPEAKER_01:Somebody asked me if I got a Dunkin' Donuts gift card, and I forgot to respond to her because I didn't.
SPEAKER_00:Oh. Because I think she emailed, she wanted to email you something, and I was like, listen, she's a Dunkin' girl. So if you're gonna send her something, then Duncan is probably the best way to do it. Because if you try to send her anything too expensive, she's probably not gonna take it.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's so sweet. I need to respond to her. I thought I think I thought because I read it on my phone. I was like, I think she meant to send that to someone else because I didn't get a I didn't get a gift card. Maybe it got in your maybe it's in your spam folder. Might be. Oh, they're so sweet. They really do send me love letters. I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm telling you, they send you love letters. They really love you. They tell me all the time. That's really nice of them because sometimes that'll be taking a long time to give them their stuff. But you know what? I'm pretty real with them when they email me, and I'm like, yeah. See what happened. What had happened was I should have been done ordered.
SPEAKER_00:You may take forever sometimes, but at least we're honest. I'll be gonna get your shit. Like I will never get it.
SPEAKER_01:I'll never scam you, baby. You gonna get it, and it's gonna come with stickers and a bookmark and all kinds of stuff. I do try, I do stay within, usually I do stay within the exactly the time frame that I do.
SPEAKER_00:You're not the problem. I'm the problem because I'm the one who's in control of like the book boxes, the artwork, everything like that. And sometimes, like this year was a complete clusterfuck because of the whole artist situation.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:If I hadn't had that whole snafu with the artist, we probably would have put out three book boxes this year. But 100% once one thing falls apart, yeah, everything else just grinds to a halt. That's the problem with a book box. Well, they're gonna get unhinged before before Christmas. So that'll be nice. They will. And then we can then we'll go back to business as usual.
SPEAKER_01:And the Standees once though, yeah, we'll be we'll be up to date, girly pop. And then next one's Barbarian. Which they got hella confused. I don't know who posted in the motherfucking group about the hundred dollar box and giving away the mug, but you fucked up my Tuesday, so bad.
SPEAKER_00:I'm like, you're it's for the Yeah, they they didn't understand.
SPEAKER_01:I was like Sin Eater, which I kept saying it was a Sin Eater box on the Facebook, and you're asking about barbers.
SPEAKER_00:I'm like, guys, you're you're freaking out over nothing. If you don't pay a hundred dollars a month to me, you're not getting that big box. Like, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01:Minimum. There is no Sin Eater special edition box. First of all, no, it doesn't exist yet. Not yet.
SPEAKER_00:There will be.
SPEAKER_01:There will be.
SPEAKER_00:We did the barbarian.
SPEAKER_01:Why I don't know why we're having the barbarian conversation. I was so confused. I'm like, who's giving away what? Because they're liars.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it's fucking madness. No, but anyway, I think we've exhausted this topic and we've bored people to death with my back office stories.
SPEAKER_01:People like this is an author podcast, okay? And they might hire.
SPEAKER_00:It's probably why we're listening. I don't know. We're doing our at least I know the people on Patreon are listening because they read my books, but I don't know if anybody else is. Oh, yeah, no, a lot of people are listening, but I doubt that they're all just readers. I'm sure somebody actually wants actual information about this actual information.
SPEAKER_01:This is back of the house. This is what you gotta get your hands dirty, baby. You're trying to ship some books, okay? You want a garage full of shit? Yes, yeah. Okay. You wanna know what it's like? You wanna know what it's like in these streets? I'll take you to my garage. It's 20 motherfucking degrees out there. I'm gonna be in there for two hours today.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I didn't even think about that. Oh shit.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, no, no, no, it's fine. No, it's fine. Actually, I'm gonna order a little heater for out there because I don't package the books out there.
SPEAKER_00:I try and bring the order inside, but I will say, since we're about to wrap up, I am dropping my Patreon course a lesson at a time on the Patreon for Burned Out Muse. So if you are interested in learning how I make$25,000 a month off my Patreon, it's a really good course. You only pay$25 a month for that tier, and you'll get all of the information dripped to you, including all the bonus stuff and all the workbook stuff. So it's just patreon.com slash the burned outmuse, and you can get access to all that and a bunch of other author good stuff, lessons, uh bonus episodes of the podcast. I've put all of the Patreon episodes as podcast episodes too. So if you don't want to watch the basically, you're just gonna be looking at a PowerPoint because I hid my face. But if you don't want to just look at a PowerPoint, you can just listen to it on your way to work, whatever. So I've tried to make it as accessible as possible. And if you don't want to do any of that, you can buy it for 10 bucks a piece off of Patreon just one lesson at a time. So if there's my spiel. But yeah, other than on you. Oh, and we're doing podcasts every other week now.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I didn't know that. It's a crazy time of year. Girl, and it that's a crazy time of year on my end. It's a crazy time of year. Yeah. You have children. No, it's not that. It's the children and too many children.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I have two. I have two. I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_01:Damn, Harper. I guess without one too many out of two. Which one is too many? So I can tell your niece or nephew which one was too much. We know who you think is the too many. It's hard to do that. No, the shop is popping, plus we have the special edition boxes, the standees, and just in general, the holidays. The holidays are always our busiest time. Every other week. And we and we can Yeah, and Yeah, and then when things lighten up, which they will, unless she does more stuff, she's gonna do more stuff. I can see it in her eyes. When I said when things lighten up and she looked at me, like you mean when I die? I'm scared. No, I know you don't. You really don't. Oh yeah, yeah. I'm curious. And what a week and a half, right? I don't know. It's it's an Allen wrench. I don't know. He's got so many things on his desk. I don't there's so many things to play with, like this little button thingy. He's and he's on the spectrum. Yeah, I I could diagnose him with eight different things right now.
