Episode 25 | Smoke Controls, Certifications, and more...

Bryan McLane is joined by Charles Aulner and Chris Godwin in this week's episode where they discuss smoke controls, different types of certifications, and, of course, training. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Temporal Three Podcast, where we talk all about fire alarm. I am joined by my co-host today, Mr. Charles Olmer. Hello, Charles. Good day. Good day, and Mr. Chris Godwin. Hello, Chris. Hey, Brian. So I'd like to start out today talking about certifications, particularly about multiple certifications. So in classes recently that I've taught, and Chris, I know this has happened to you, and Charles, this has happened to you as well. In fact, Charles, I know and you and I have followed this guide. I've experienced students who have experience in multiple areas. And even though they were in a fire alarm class, I encourage them that if they had sprinkler experience or special hazards or now ERCs, to seek additional certifications. Chris, what's your opinion on seeking multiple certifications?

SPEAKER_01 0:59

The more certifications you have, it makes you uh more valuable, more valuable to the company and more marketable for projects and everything else. If you've got somebody that's got several different certifications, you don't have to outsource for that stuff. So it actually makes it so that you're able to get more jobs, more contracts, more money, more money, more money.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

More money, more money.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

Yeah. Charles, how about you?

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Well, the big deal, in my opinion, isn't the certification itself. It's the training and the knowledge, developing yourself as a professional in our industry. The certification represents your efforts in that regard. But the knowledge that you gain and being able to apply that knowledge in the industry is really the key benefit. The certification is important, but being able to take the knowledge that you've learned through that certification process and applying it is really where the rubber meets the road, in my view.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Absolutely. I like to say the more acronyms you have after your name, the better your opportunities are. And uh, you know, as Chris said, you you framed it great from the employer perspective. As an employer, I would definitely want my people to be certified in different areas because it opens up opportunities for other jobs. You know, you go on, you go to do a job and you uh particularly as big as ERXES is becoming, and nice at ERXE certification, or as they call it IBPSC, is starting to gain some traction. And if you're ahead of the curve and you have that ERXE certification now, that puts the company ahead and being able to bid that project, particularly at the AHJ or the project requirements, you know, the specifications call for it. Uh now you've got it. It gives you it gives you a leg up.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

Well, another thing it definitely helps, I mean go ahead, Chris.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

I was just gonna say, you know, a lot of companies they do fire alarm, but they also have other other things, uh, you know, other low voltage, such as intrusion, such as doing inspection testing for sprinkler systems, doing, you know, special hazards. And if you've got those acronyms, you're a lot more capable of being that tech that is able to work on all of those different systems. You have to have specialized training. And in most places, most jurisdictions, you can't touch it without some kind of the the qualifications for it. So having that behind your name, absolutely, it gives you a lot more access to being able to do much more.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Charles, you were going to say. From the employer perspective, one thing it also does is it tells me as an employer that this person has the knowledge to do things right. And I can't tell you how big of a worry it is for employers that they're gonna hire someone who's gonna go out there and make some sort of a huge mistake that's a liability or a risk to the company. So hiring someone who has documented certification gives the employer some insurance of or assurance that, hey, this guy's gonna be out there doing things the way that I want it done. He's not gonna get me or my company in trouble. Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

So from the NISAT perspective, yeah, there we go. We want to be politically correct. Uh, from the NISET perspective, it's an important consideration should you seek multiple certification that you document that from the get-go. Chris, how does NISET want to see your documentation, your work history? Do they want it piecemeal or do they want it all at once?

SPEAKER_01 4:50

No, they want everything. They want everything all up front at once from the beginning up to current time. Which can be kind of difficult when you're looking at going across different fields, because if you split down that you put you have 100% of your experience in one field, okay, well, that means you have zero experience anywhere else. And so it it gets a little bit tricky, uh, is what I would say when you go to look at the documentation process. But absolutely everything, document everything that is your work within that field or any fields.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Absolutely. You definitely want to give them the full boat and consider too, like you said, Chris, if you said you're 100% fire alarm for the past 10 years and later you decide, okay, well, I want to go for that sprinkler certification because I have some sprinkler experience, you can't restate history with NYSET. You can't say, okay, I didn't tell you guys the truth from the get-go. I actually had about 50% of my time in sprinkler, so I want to change that. NISAT will find that unacceptable. Well, next thing I'd like to talk about today, guys, is smoke control. Smoke control. What is smoke control? Well, smoke control controls the movement of smoke and air within a building to maintain a tenorable environment for the occupants so they can exit. And smoke control is kind of a peripheral type of thing to fire alarm. And a lot of times smoke control systems will integrate with fire alarm, and we do get occasional questions about smoke control, but it's actually a completely different set of codes that govern it, different parts of the building code uh and NFPA 101 that govern it. Chris, what has been your experience with smoke control?

SPEAKER_01 6:29

From the field, uh from the field, you gotta watch out when you're going to do any kind of testing or anything, because if you're not aware that you have a smoke control set, uh smoke control system in the building, you might be testing smokes at a mall in the middle of winter and wondering why is it so cold inside? It's winter time. Well, you activated the smoke control system unknowingly. So they're my experience with them is they're actually really cool with how the whole setup works and what it is that they're actually doing. So in the event of a fire, you're pressurizing certain areas and exhausting other areas so that you are keeping the smoke away from places that are going to be exit areas for the occupants of building it. When it when it goes off, it's actually really cool once you're aware of it.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Once you're aware of it, exactly. Yeah. Well, I guess you I guess uh because the code requires an FSCS that you you didn't realize there was an FSCS uh firefighters command station, uh smoke control station, rather, uh in that mall.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

More or less. I just I didn't realize like we knew it was there, but it was one of those things that new to the field and it didn't pick up on hey, uh if you do those ones, we need to reset them because it's winter time. Otherwise, this building's gonna get a little cold.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Well, and you're from Vegas too, Chris. I didn't realize it actually got cold in Vegas.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

It gets cold, it gets dry cold is what it is. Uh the temperature is not low, but the the air just cuts to the bone. Yeah, still windy. Yeah. Yeah. And you're pumping all that into a building uh when it's supposed to be warmer, people get uncomfortable. Why is it so cold? I don't know. No idea. Charles, what is it?

SPEAKER_02 8:17

Everything's lit up. Yeah. Charles, what has been your experience with smoke control?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Well, typically is from a fire alarm perspective, we interface. That's what we do. Uh whether it's duct smoke detectors or something else, uh, we provide an interface. So we're not really that much involved in it. But the concept is really cool. In high-rise buildings, Chris mentioned pressurized stairwells. Uh we put higher pressure in the stairwell so when the door to any floor is open that might have smoke, that high pressure blows from the stairwell into the room to keep smoke out of the stairwell. The stairwell's an exit path. Uh having that clear of smoke allows people to exit without choking. So the concept of that is really cool, I think. Uh it's a specialized field. There are people who uh really work just in smoke control. Um I I think it's an integral part of uh fire protection plan for a building.

SPEAKER_02 9:31

Well, it's also an integral part of the NISAT exam because if you're taking the INT FAS exam, the inspection and testing of fire alarm systems, at level two, they allow NFPA 92 in, which is the standard for smoke control, and they will ask you questions about smoke control. Now, it is based on chapter eight of that book, which is testing of a smoke control system. And there are some things you have to test and the way the tests have to be done and all that stuff, but it is something you need to be aware of. And even in the main fire alarm exams, talking to students, I've talked to a lot of students that in the main fire alarm exam at level three and level four, they'll see questions about smoke control, not about the engineering of smoke control, because that is an engineered system, as Charles said. You know, there are people that that is their field, it's very specialized. But from IBC Section 909, which covers smoke control requirements and actually dictates that I found this one really interesting. And the student asked me the question. I had to look it up in the IBC, the color of the LEDs on the FSCS. There's actually in IBC 909, it tells you what color the LEDs have to indicate on the FSCS. And he saw that as a question on his exam, and I thought that was really interesting. So, yeah, we want to be aware of 909 for level three and level four in fire alarm systems. So, guys, is there a reference available from NTC that talks about smoke control?

SPEAKER_01 10:55

I mean, we talk a little bit about it within the confines of the Brown Book. Yes. As it ties into your fire alarm systems. So a little bit. A little bit in the in there.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

We do have an entire chapter, chapter 19. Now, it isn't a 20 or 30 page chapter. It's about five or six pages, but still, yeah, it it is designed to give fire alarm people a fundamental understanding of smoke control and applicable codes because that is the kind of thing that NICEP may ask you about on the exam.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Yeah. I do like that the smoke control uh codebook, NFPA 92, it's just such a big book. Yeah. It's just such a big code book. There's just so much to it.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yes. Just a l just like uh and uh it's about the size of NFPA 70, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Yeah. The smoke control, the smoke control code book is just it's a small book, and and like you said, Brian, most of what we're looking at is chapter eight materials for the testing inspection side of it. But easy to navigate once you get a little bit of that feel for it's an NFPA book. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

So absolutely. So our question from the field for this session is and voltage versus a voltage drop calculation. Charles, you have a little bit of experience with this uh from our my career in distribution, your career with an installing dealer. You want to tell that story about voltage drop?

SPEAKER_00 12:21

My gosh. Yeah, it's uh practical application from the field. I was on a project and uh the horns at the panel sounded fine, but the ones at the end of the line sounded sickly to say the least. The flash rate of the strobes was off. I was having severe problems. So I went to my local distributor where an expert on this subject happened to work to seek out some advice. Uh, Brian, that said expert, can you tell me what advice he gave me?

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Uh yeah, he told you that, hey, dumbass, you need a knack extender, or you've got a voltage drop issue. Either you either need to pull bigger wire or split the knack circuit or buy a knack extender. I think you actually ended up buying a knack extender, which of course I overcharged you for because you didn't know what you were doing.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

That's true. And uh your advice as an expert was worth the price. Yes, it was.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

So, Chris, what's the difference between a voltage drop calculation and an end voltage calculation? How do they differ? And uh particularly uh in the nightset exam is something that you may see this.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Well, both of them involve doing a voltage drop calculation. And what voltage drop is, is it's the loss of voltage along the circuit. Where the end voltage is what the last device is actually receiving. In the nightset exam, you gotta watch out when it comes down to the questions because what is the question actually asking? You'll have answers for both. And if you don't do the entire calculation, you're left answering with just the voltage drop, which will be a lot of times one of your available answers. That's not necessarily what they're asking. You gotta make sure. So with voltage drop, we're looking at Ohm's law, equals I times R. We're looking for the loss of the voltage. So we're looking for E. What we're looking for with the N voltage is what's left after. What is left after at the last device? And that actually is a much easier calculation once you have voltage drop done. You're just taking what you're starting with and removing the drop. So it all comes down to what is the question actually asking?

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Yep. Absolutely. And I'd I'd like to give it an example of that. If we have and something that you may see on your NYSET exam, and how the how the equation can go both ways for us. So NISET may ask you a question about 500 feet of 18.2 on a 24 volt fire alarm panel with 20 with one amp current. So, first of all, we have to realize that 500 feet of 18-2 is 1,000 feet of circuit length. It's 500 feet out, 500 feet back, because voltage drop is all about how far the electricity travels, not about the length of the cable. We need to differentiate between cable length and circuit length. So 500 feet of two-conductor is a thousand feet of circuit length. We'll go to NFPA 70, chapter 9, table 8. We'll see the value is approximately 8 ohms, as Chris mentioned. We'll do an ohm's law calculation, E equals I times R, and I like easy math, so I'm using really simple numbers. Current is one amp, I is current, current is one amp, ohms, R is resistance, eight ohms, one times eight. The drop on that circuit is eight volts. However, Knife could also ask us about that same circuit what is the end voltage, the theoretical voltage at the last device. So that requires an additional step, as Chris mentioned, where we take our starting voltage, we we uh, which is 24 volts, we subtract our drop, which is eight volts, and that gives us the end voltage. So for the end voltage on that circuit, that would be 24 minus 8, which would be 16 volts. And as Chris said, it is very likely that you're gonna see both 8 volts and 16 volts, and maybe some other options as well, because there's always four answers on the NICET exam, other options as well. And if you are not careful in reading that question, depending on how they ask you, whether it's n voltage or voltage drop, that's a relatively simple calculation that unfortunately you could get wrong. Do we see this a lot in class, Chris? Do we see this in our practice test and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_01 16:42

We put it in our practice test on purpose. But I mean, do we get the students about this? Yeah. Absolutely. We get students that that will go about it and like, how did I get this one wrong? What are we asking about? What is the actual question going for? And you gotta be careful. You gotta be careful, you gotta know the difference between the two, and you have to read the whole thing. And that's that that is one of the things that in the nice exam, under pressure, you're trying to get through quick. So sometimes we miss that. What is end voltage as opposed to all right, I've looked at everything for the voltage draw calculation, I've already done that, and oh, there's my answer. On the brakes, easy enough question. Take that extra second.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Charles, how do we react to our students when they ask questions like this? Do we say that's a dumb question?

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Absolutely not. We take them through it step by step. You talked about it. Uh it's really important in learning how to do this that you see it written out. Um so that's really a critical thing. And the application of this really comes in with fire alarm design. When we set up a design for a fire alarm system, this voltage drop calculation is a critical part. And when we submit our plans to the AHJ, they're looking for this to make sure that we have the right-sized wire, uh, the right power available for the notification circuits, because if we don't, notification isn't going to happen the way the code requires. Absolutely true.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

So, yeah, and real-world application as well as code world application here. So, again, knowing how to do it. And I know the uh the thought process for a lot of people is well, the design program does that. Okay, well, what if you're in the field and you're adding some notification appliances and you want to make sure the circuit's still going to work? Isn't it good to be able to know how to do the math to just do a double check? Or do you always trust the program or always trust the designer that they put everything in properly? I don't. I'm old school. I like double checking things. I don't trust the machine. Well, computers have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Another aspect of that is understanding the concept. And we gain that understanding of the concept by knowing how the calculation is done. Having the uh program do it for you is fine, but having an understanding of the concept of how it's done is important as well. Chris, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 19:12

I was just saying, I was just saying sarcastically, the computer never makes mistakes. Never. Never made them ever. Usually when there's a mistake on the computer, it is user error. But on that, on that, being able to understand the process, like you said, Charles, and being able to know the how to do the calculation is huge because then you could catch that mistake before it gets past any kind of going to the AHJ, going off or bid, going off. You can catch that beforehand and say, oh, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

Yep. So all it takes is a decimal point in the wrong place, guys. And that's really easy to do. Um, you know, either manufacturer error, data entry error, whatever the case is. And uh yeah, being able to having that skill to be able to do that, to double check the computer just to make sure, gonna save you a lot of embarrassment, gonna save you a lot of frustration, could save could save you repolling a lot of wire because nobody caught the mistake along the line. Well, gentlemen, I appreciate your time today. Thank you very much for engaging in this conversation. Uh, this is the end of this edition of the Temporal Three Podcast. Please subscribe and join us for our next session. Have a great day, guys. You too, Brian. Take it easy.