Episode 25- Turkey 101

Greg and Steve discuss some of the basics of turkey hunting that have brought us the most success and recap some of our favorite hunts. They also discuss the opinion of hunters and anglers in the eyes of the general public in Michigan. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to the providers podcast brought to you by smoking it.com. We got an interesting one here today. Greg brings up a bunch of fun facts about uh if hunters are popular or not, which is kind of shocking. Um I give an update on my dog and what he's been up to and my training with that, and then we get to talk a little bit about these guys right here, turkeys. Um turkey season's coming, baby. So let's get excited. Alright, hopefully you enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

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SPEAKER_00 1:16

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SPEAKER_05 1:33

Oh man, it's been a while. Yeah. Couple weeks here, so last last time. Hate to admit it, but I kind of missed you. Good to me. Didn't miss me much when you were down in Ohio rabbit hunting. Well, I did miss you. How far did you drive? Quite a ways. How many rabbits you kill?

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Uh Matt got one. One. One. One guy got one. But we were 50%.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

We only saw two.

SPEAKER_03 2:09

And you filmed a podcast, so I'm happy. Whatever. But hey, Sam found his first set of shed antlers. Matching set? Yeah. So that was cool. Like behind the cabin? Yeah. Really? What is it? Yeah, a little seven point little basket seven or whatever, but um, it was pretty sweet. He was super excited. I was like, hey, let's go walk around and look for some sheds. And he's like, okay. Did uh then he found it. Did Matt think that he's got pictures of that deer or no? He sent he sent one or two that that look like it might have been. Yeah. That's sweet. That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_05 2:49

So uh I haven't even got to tell you this yet because I just found out yesterday. But you know how my brothers got his lake house? Yeah. That he put the barn and everything on. Well, they were getting ready to break ground on adding an addition to the back of it, and his wife goes, Hey, check out this property about 10 miles up the road. And he's like, Okay, and they looked at it. It's on another lake, but it's 40 acres. Holy crap. And they put in an offer and it got accepted yesterday. No way. So I've got a new uh I got a new hunting woods to try to figure out. Holy cow, that's awesome. Yeah, so he's he's pretty excited, but he said they went out and walked it. Um is it like an all sports lake too? Yeah, it's on the small side. I think it's I think he said it's like 110 acres, maybe, so it's not huge. So they'll have they'll have lakefront access. Right now there's only a 30 by 60 pole barn on it. Um so they'll get to pick where they want the house and everything, and then should have about 36 acres or so to play with when all said and done. But dang, that's sweet. Went out and walked it, sent me some pictures. Like the guy who's had it has two probably five-acre or more food plots on it. Oh wow. Um, so it's already established pretty much. Two tracks going all around it, and then the pictures of the two tracks have deer tracks walking down the center of the two track, like you can see the mud center of it. So, and then what's really crazy is we tend to think Michigan's pretty flat. It's only 40 acres, but from the west end to the east end is about a 40 foot drop. So it's actually got a pretty decent ridge on it, and a standing pond for geese. So he's thinking uh he's thinking building the permanent, huh? Permanent blind.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Huh.

SPEAKER_05 4:50

Yeah. This sounds great, doesn't it? Sounds like Brian just became my best friend. And you know what the best part is, is we aren't paying for it. So this is gonna be awesome.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

So yeah, that'll be cool because we haven't had just tell him not to buy any decoys, any setup, because that's what I can bring to the table. All right. If he gets it all, I'm screwed. And a place to to work with the dog. Oh my god, that'd be sweet. Oh my god, that'd be so sweet.

SPEAKER_05 5:16

How's the uh first off, how's the dog doing?

SPEAKER_03 5:19

Because I know you've been working on some I'm impressed, to be honest with you. Like I'm he's still young. He's uh not I think he'll be a year in like June or July, something like that. So he's still he's still young. And uh I've been working, like I told you before, it's like little building blocks. Right. Keeps going, keeps progressing. And um just the other day, like I've I've been working on him sitting on a whistle and things like that. Uh-huh. Just the other day, I had him in the backyard, brought him over. He sat. I throw the uh bumper out, it lands, he won't go until I say his name. Said his name, took off, got to about the halfway point, blew the whistle, he stops, he he turned and sat, but then he actually lays down, which is fine. Um and then he just looks at me, and then I said ace, and he turned and ran and got it and brought it right back. So that's that's awesome. That's a huge step in the process of where we're going. So it's pretty awesome. So you're thinking he's your plan is to have him ready for this. Oh yeah, he'll be duck on this year for sure. Yeah. Um, you know, the first year he's probably, you know, it's gonna be huge learning curve on everything, but uh he's still got, you know, he's less than a year old for a lab. He's got a ton of energy, right? Um and he's got a lot of stupid moments, but uh obedience-wise, overall, he's been doing real good. Uh the boys were laughing just yesterday in the house. I handed him a whistle. I was like, he'll he'll sit down wherever he's at in the house right now. So he was wandered off into the kitchen, they blew the whistle, boom, sits down, looks nice, comes over. Every like you can have him, you can throw something in the house, stop him at will, whenever you just blow that whistle and he just sits down. And uh so it's been sweet. Um, I did start implementing um the shot collar, um, so that's helped. Um but now he's doing things without the shot collar even being on. Okay. So um uh which is huge for me because Betty was too sensitive with the shot collar, if you remember. Yeah. Um, so it's going to help me, it's gonna be a great tool to teach him right and wrong or whatever. And then um I've been hiding sheds and stuff in the yard, and he's been finding them real quick. So went to the hunting lease and uh had Renego with me, and we were just hey, let's just go for a walk, you know. Right. And he is scouring all over the place looking and stuff. We didn't find any sheds. Uh-huh. But what was cool is I brought a 20 gauge with me, and I'm like, hey, I want to see what he's gonna do. Uh-huh. Um, so if you remember me telling you before, um it's you know, part of the building block, uh I cut two small pieces of two by four, and when he was a pup, as he's feeding, like he's eating his food, I'm just smashing those things, right? Like making noise, making him comfortable. I'm out there and I'm like, sit. He sits next to me, racked off rounds, and he just sat there like he was more distracted by I took a pump, so he's more distracted like at first when I racked the gun. He was like, What was that? And then the shell came out, and he's like, Oh, he's interested in what the shell was, right? But the sound of the gun and everything, like gun shy-wise, he did not care. And then a little later, we walked the whole property, we came back to the same spot. I grabbed the gun. Um, I had him sit on my left so the shells weren't going towards him as a distraction. But I literally kneeled down right next to him, jumped up excited, like a duck just came in, uh-huh, shot, and he was just like, Alright, what next? You know what I mean? Like he didn't budge. So that's awesome, especially being so young. Like, yeah, so I'm super excited. My next steps are gonna be um, I don't know, I think you call it baseball or something, but like my next step will be I'll put a bumper straight out, I'll put bumpers left and right, and then I'll do that same thing once he has that dialed where I can whistle and he's gonna stop and turn and look at me, uh-huh, then I start doing left and right directions. And then the point of all that is I knock a duck down, he doesn't see where it goes. Sure. I can send him, blow the whistle, he'll stop and look at me, and I can say it's this way. You know what I mean? So um, if I can get him to that point, oh my gosh, I'm gonna be so excited. Yeah, that's pretty sweet. Yeah, that's pretty sweet.

SPEAKER_05 10:39

Well, cool. So, yeah, so maybe we'll uh we'll have a new spot to do some some duck hunting. So that makes me excited. Yeah, it's like just I was looking at the aerial map, it's just this little this little round wet piece just off the main lake. And he said there were actually ducks on the lake when they walked it the other day, too. So he's he's pretty hopeful that that there's at least some around. So I was like, hey, uh, how's turkey season looking? And possibilities of good fishing, probably. Yeah, I mean I'm sure I'm sure there's gonna be good fishing. Uh guy across the road has been hunting it for years, I guess, and taking deer every year. So there's deer there. I don't know if he's gonna end up dealing with an issue with a guy thinking he's still got permission to hunt over there if he's not living there full time. But I think the goal is eventually they'll be there full time. It probably won't be an issue, but that's cool. For right now, I don't know if he's gonna be battling somebody thinking it's still theirs. But um, yeah, so that that kind of brings me to uh to my topic today, and I'm curious to see what your thoughts are on this because I can't say that it surprised me, but there was actually um a 2025 marketing survey that got released um asking people all across Michigan if they are supportive of hunting and trapping. So this is general public survey, right? And 75% of people actually strongly or moderately approve of hunting, while only 9% fell below the moderately strongly disapprove line. So that's that's not just hunters, that's that's the general population, right? So over 75% of people who took the survey support hunting. Now get this. Only 58% approve of hunters.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

What?

SPEAKER_05 12:43

So to me, it makes me think of all of the bad hunting experiences that we've had with hunters, right? So think of the general public probably who's had their land trust passed on, or you know, people being idiots and shooting towards their house or whatever, and I'm like there's like that. I feel like to the general public, there's that natural aura that hunters are all assholes. Yeah. That's kind of the and the sad thing is, is I can't say that I disagree with it because we talk about this like when we go down to Ohio, how everybody is come hunt my place, you know, come hunt with me, come do this, whatever. And in Michigan, we're all like, you're not touching my property, and those are my deer, and right, and I'm just as guilty of that. Like, I'm not gonna let somebody just randomly come out and hunt my place. But had a conversation with a guy the other night, and uh, he's a big hunter, and he goes, How much of this can get blamed on leases? And I have never thought of this before, but work with me. The doe population's out of whack, right? Hunting has become a rich man's sport, right? And how much of that is because of leasing becoming so popular? So we were saying back in the day you hunted grandpa's farm, you hunted your uncle's farm, whatever. It was family property, you took pride in it. Right. Now, twofold. Number one, people know they can make money leasing their property. Right. So now they now they force people to pay for it because they can make a buck. But number two, the people that are leasing it don't really give a shit about the property, do they? Like they're they're paying$2,500 a year because they want to shoot a big buck. Right. They're not paying$2,500 a year because they want to come control the dough population. Right. Right? Yeah. I'd never thought of that before.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

And I was like, holy crap, like and I actually I actually had permission on property in the past where the owner, the farmer there, uh refused to lease it to me. You have permission, but I am not doing a lease. And I thought that that was so odd. Like, right, let me just all I wanted to do was kind of lock in that I had you know permission and you know whatever. And his reasoning was as soon as I he's had it in the past and he was burned, you know, as soon as he leased that property, then he lost control of his own property. Oh, right. All of a sudden it's well, my oh yeah, uh you know, who's who's out there right now? Oh yeah, that's my cousin, or that's my my sister's boyfriend, or whatever, right? And like it's just as soon as you lease a property, you have a sense of it's mine, I can do whatever I want. Right, I'm paying for it. You know what I mean? I'm paying for it, I can do whatever I want. Right. And people have to keep in mind that yeah, you you have to respect that property, or you're you know, you you're gonna lose it. But I think a lot of people lose that, you know, frame of thought.

SPEAKER_05 16:26

And I think too, Michigan, we don't have a lot of big tracts of property anymore. I mean, you've got a few farmers in the area, and I'm talking like let's say the southern half of lower Michigan in general. I mean, I know there's some larger properties the further north you get, but if all of a sudden you've got everybody leasing 10 acres here and 10 acres there, it becomes a battle because you're not holding deer on 10 acres, so now you're mad at your neighbor, you know, and I don't know. I think there was a that just got my head spinning about the fact that yeah, if if you're leasing the property, you really don't feel an obligation to to make it better, you know, be a good controller of the populations that you're hunting or whatever it is, and I think it causes a lot of contention. And it was the same thing with fishing, actually. 82% of the general public has a positive opinion of fishing, but only 69% approve of anglers. And I think maybe the reasoning behind that would be more I know people get upset if they see somebody fishing in the stream that's running through the middle of their property or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Yeah, but there's I also think of uh lakes and you know, like dock fishing is a huge thing where you're gonna go around and you're bass fishing and you're flipping underneath docks and stuff, snagging people's boat covers. Yeah, my cousin has a hundred thousand dollar wakeboard boat, and people are trying to flip underneath that boat, and he's like, You snag that boat, right? Like, you know what I mean? Like that's I mean, it's pricey, and people don't understand that. Right. And at the same time, they don't really own the water, but you know what I mean? Like it's sure, it's a tricky situation.

SPEAKER_05 18:25

So yeah, it was I was just eye-opening. I was like, oh, so the general public actually support what we do, and actually I was surprised. Right, exactly. And I think for some reason Ann Arbor always comes to my mind, right? Like they tend to be the more that's if they support the Wolverines. But they tend to be the more the more conservative population that we're having the conversation of let's let's put does on birth control to control the population rather than allow hunters to control the population. Or whatever, and uh, it was actually surprising in in the in the article was um you know, people are finally understanding that controlling the population with hunting is actually beneficial to people and also beneficial to the species, which I never thought I'd hear coming out of some of these places that they're just not hunters. And I guess I always kind of felt they were anti-hunters, but maybe maybe they aren't anti-hunters, they're just anti-people being assholes. I don't know. So yeah, hopefully we don't fit in that category. I would like to think that we don't, but right, like I said, at the same time, it's hard because property is so hard to come by, and like I just said with my brother having 40 acres, you know, if all of a sudden you're trying to to deal with being an hour and 20 minutes away from your house for the time being, and hoping that people aren't in there shooting your turkeys or your deer or right, you know, cutting your wood down for for their wood burning stove, you know. I mean, I've I've heard all of it. So so yeah, just uh just one of those things that they got me questioning. Be curious to see if anybody else has an opinion on if leased hunting has uh and has positively or negatively changed the hunting environment. Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

Ron and I have leased the property for twenty years probably. I mean, we've we've gone to a couple of different spots, but with the same same owner. And uh I mean we've always respected, you know what I mean. We've right, I feel like we've done it the right way where we're still treating it like it's our grandpa's property or something. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 21:01

But you've been in those battles with the neighbor who has tried to take the property from you, or you know, somebody comes in and says, Hey, I'll I'll pay you an extra$500 a year, and you get your lease ripped out from under you because the farmer can make it some extra money. Definitely had that. It adds to the to the rich man part of the sport that you can only afford so much, yeah. You know, and then somebody that's got more money than you comes in and takes it over, and you know, may or may not have best interest in mind of the actual resources that they're out there hunting. So so yeah. Yep, that's uh that's kind of what had been on my mind. I wanted to see your opinion on that. Man, that's something I had never thought of before, but it I think there's something to it. You remember you've been hunting a few years longer than I have. I don't remember leases being big in like the early to mid nineties, kind of when I got going.

SPEAKER_03 21:59

No. And most of the time the farmers were like, yeah, I want deer taken off my property. Right. That'd be great. It was almost like you were doing them a favor, not hey, I can make money off of this.

SPEAKER_05 22:12

Or I even wondered too, like with the with the hunting numbers being higher, then if it was easier to have family or friends or whatever that you just let go. And then now I think some of these farmers may not have any family that hunt anymore with the way the numbers have dropped.

SPEAKER_03 22:28

Or they have such a or they have a a big enough farm that they know, all right, I can section this off release and that off release. And I just don't think that it was on anybody's mind that those options were out there. Right. And technology and internet and everything is is like all of a sudden maybe a farmer didn't know. You know, like and then now that you can go out and look for hunting leases online, sure. And then you can see all these crazy prices. Right. And they're like, why wouldn't I want to make an extra$2,500 here?

SPEAKER_05 23:07

You know what I mean? So heck yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_05 23:11

Good point. But so yeah, so leading into I guess turkey season, because we're getting towards the end of March now, we had uh we had a viewer question come in, and uh the question was what's your favorite weapon to hunt turkeys with? Actually, the question was gauge of gun. Oh, okay. We can we can dive into the other end of that. Okay. But gauge of gun, uh, if you have a preferred ammo and what is your favorite call to go with. Okay. And I think we're gonna have differing opinions on a lot of this.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

Probably.

SPEAKER_05 23:52

You are much more of I would say you are a better turkey hunter than I am. I don't know why you say that, but because you can call the shit out of a turkey.

SPEAKER_04 24:03

I've practiced a lot and annoyed my wife.

SPEAKER_05 24:06

So yeah. So I think like if we just start there, I'm gonna tell you my favorite turkey call is a slate call because I don't think you have to be as technical to be able to operate it. So I tend to lean towards a slate call, but that's because I am a self-admitted not good mouth caller. Like, can I use a mouth call? Yes. Can I use it super effectively? I don't think so. So I feel like it's easier for me. It was easier for me to learn how to utilize my hand on a slate call to make the sound I wanted to make, I guess, would be my answer. I love a mouth call.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Like I have had a lot of success with a mouth call. Um but you have to do a lot of practice, like you were saying. You have to really try to critique it and see what you can do with it. And um anything from Purs to Klucks to I can even do a gobble, but I have to shake my head, so it kind of you look like you're getting a concussion over a video of this. Um but doing that mouth call is I don't know, it's it's pretty rewarding to me too. Like it, it's like it's kind of its own challenge. But ultimately, and I've had this the first time I tried it was the first time I shot a turkey with my bow. And it was just a jake, but I was hunting on this ridge, overlooking this down swamp area you've hunted there with me before. And uh I'm in a blind with my bow. And what's funny is this was a week before Max was born, I think. He's about to turn 21. Yeah, you know, and uh I see this group of birds come through on this the in the low spot, and you know how they just hold up, they just will not they get stubborn, you know. And I'm using my mouth call, I'm clucking, I'm clucking. They're kind of just mosing around. And then I took a box call, I hit the box call and then reacted with my mouth call like I was a pissed-off hen, uh-huh, and they just turned and came like, what's going on up there? So, and they got close enough that I couldn't see them out of the blind. I wound up taking a 12-yard shot on this Jake, which I was ecstatic over because my goal was, oh my gosh, if I could shoot one with my bow, that'd be great. Right. So, but my point is you you don't always have to just lock in on one call either. Right. My favorite call is a mouth call, but it's good to switch it up, use a slate, use a box, use something else, or use them if you can use them in combination and you can figure out how to do that.

SPEAKER_05 27:18

And you and I have it's it's a lot easier if you got your buddy out there with you, but you and I have done that whole talk back and forth thing, and it does seem to drive them crazy. Right. Like it's it's more than just that single hen. Now they think there's a group of hens, which opens up options, like right, you know, and with my with my mouth call, I can do like a like uh excited almost ticked off version where I go dot dot dot dot dot dot.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

You know, like it and and then do my clucks, you know, where it's like they they look like oh what you know what's going on there. So um yeah, but to the point of what's your what's your favorite weapon or gun.

SPEAKER_05 28:06

Well, hang on, I want to say something more about the call too, because I don't think a lot of people think of this, is I think the number one success to turkey hunting is no motion. Oh yeah, like they can see, we know they can see, right? So especially if you're not sitting in a blind, to be able to just have a call in your mouth takes away all that hand motion of trying to do a box or a slate or whatever, and then get your gun ready, right? And then, yeah, like you said, you gotta dump it, lay it on the ground, get your gun back where it needs to be, or rest your gun on your knee, or whatever you're trying to do. But I do think the mouth call has definitely has the benefits, but it's also the one that you gotta put in the time and effort to to perfect it.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

So so yeah. Uh so wait let's talk about Sam's first turkey. How'd I know I wasn't gonna get out of this conversation?

SPEAKER_04 29:07

So we're on the same property.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Greg's like, I'm gonna hunt the backfield. You hunt this field over here. And I'm like, okay. So I go over there and I set up a blind. Sam was using a crossbow. He was only like 10? He was young. 10 or 9, 10? I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 29:32

He was young. I know I've got pictures of him somewhere, I'll have to take him out. He was young.

SPEAKER_03 29:36

Anyways, so we're in this field, and I hear Greg calling. And did you text me that there was a bird? Probably not. I didn't want you to know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 29:50

I probably did.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

We were talking back and forth.

SPEAKER_04 29:52

I think you saw a bird in your field, and then I start clucking with my mouth call, and then within three to five minutes, this Tom came off of his field, crossed the creek, gets over to our field, and Sam just smokes, and I get to sit there and watch it the whole time from my side. That's great. Greg was like great. Dang you and your collie.

SPEAKER_05 30:19

Yep. I uh yeah, uh got totally outworked on that one and watched like a bird coming towards me and just take a 90-degree and head straight to Steve. So I went and took trophy pictures for him. That was great. And then I went home.

SPEAKER_04 30:40

It was.

SPEAKER_05 30:40

I was so proud of him. Uh I think I got skunk that year. I'm just saying. If it makes you feel bad or not, but that was a good one. Oh shoot. So weapon. Uh I think we all went through this phase, at least with the pass-through group when we were filming that it became like standard that we were going to try to kill turkeys with our bows. I don't think we even talked about it. I think we all just like did it. But I feel like our entire group pretty much tried to kill turkeys with bows.

SPEAKER_06 31:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:26

Yeah. We had Austin bouncing guillotines off of turkeys' heads. Which was one of the funniest videos I've ever seen because Austin never gets rattled about anything. And after that third arrow bounced off a turkey's neck, he's ready to just chuck his bow on the blind. He took those arrows and threw them on the ground. He was so mad. Um, but yeah, I mean, Ron and I ended up winning the Michigan Outdoors Video Viewer Challenge. Yeah. One of the first years we were filming because we doubled up on turkeys with our bows. Yeah. Yeah. Um you've killed birds with your bow. I don't know. I honestly have not killed a turkey with a gun. I just thought. I like the gun because we're not trying to hide, and we I don't think we ever killed a turkey with no blind. Right. Right. That was like the ultimate. If you could make that happen. Like you drawing back, they're gone. Yeah, you've got to be able to hide behind trees and down logs and all that. So I don't think any of us ever killed a turkey without a blind with a bow. So I do like now the run and gun style of being able to move. Right. That part's fun. Be on the ground with them.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

Right.

SPEAKER_05 32:55

Um, but yeah, I mean, I always I always shot turkeys with a bow. When I take my gun now, I've got a 20 gauge with a full choke on it. And I'm I'm throwing a random turkey load at it. Like I'm not super picky about that part of it.

SPEAKER_03 33:13

I run if if I'm with a gun, I use my I use my duck setup pretty much. So I use my 12 gauge, and I usually run a um a goose BB load, is what I usually do, and I still have my choke from goose hunting, and it works out pretty well for me. Um I don't necessarily think that you have to have a turkey load.

SPEAKER_05 33:43

I was just gonna say, I feel like I feel like that's been a marketing scam.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

So the difference really would be that a turkey load is lead, and your pattern can be better with and tighter with a turkey load. The knockdown power's gonna be the same, I think. Yeah, you know, so you probably could dial it in more, but honestly, the flip side of it is the tighter you get that pattern, the easier it is to miss as well. Right? I mean you want it tight, you want to be able to, you know, you're aiming for the head, you want to be able to do that, but you can also you can also mess that up pretty easy too. So but I don't know. It works out pretty, pretty good for me, just to I don't have to go buy any more turkey load. I don't have to, you know.

SPEAKER_05 34:38

That was kind of the fun part of bow hunting, too, now that you say that, was when you're gun hunting, you're aiming at their head. Typically, when you're bow hunting, you're aiming for vitals, right? And there was a learning curve about where the vitals are if the turkey is in full strut versus if the turkey isn't in full strut, because there were times you'd launch an arrow that you thought looked great and it was just blowing through top feathers and not touching anything. So that was kind of fun to have to have to figure out. Yeah. That's gotta be one of my favorite hunts of all time. That was which is actually the turkey that is sitting next to you.

SPEAKER_03 35:24

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_05 35:25

Yeah, that's awesome. Um yeah, we got out, so first of all, we had um I had a blind out in that woods for probably a week or more, and it was getting hunted. Like I was getting out there every other day, pre-kids, and um I knew that I thought the turkeys were roosting in a certain place, and they weren't. They were roosting back a little bit further, but I kept thinking they're gonna come up this trail, and they just weren't doing it. Like I'd tried this three, four times, they're not coming up the trail. Well, I finally figured out where they were actually roosting at. And do you remember you and I walked in early? Like, we we got there in dark, and you got inside my my pop-up blind, I've got all the camera gear, I've got my bow, all that, and you get in the blind and just put your hands up straight up, and he's walking through the woods on this two-track, and he looks like one of the Pac-Man ghosts. It's like this blob, it was so funny. Like, it took everything I had not to just die laughing, watching him navigate through the woods. But we moved like you probably went close to a hundred yards with that thing like that, and then we just popped in down where we wanted.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

But before we even left, the radar was showing that there was gonna be rain. Oh, yeah, it was gonna be nasty.

SPEAKER_05 36:50

There was a huge storm coming.

SPEAKER_03 36:51

And when we first got there, it was yeah, we were good.

SPEAKER_05 36:54

Yeah, but you could just watch the orange and red on the radar just coming. And we just got that blind set up, and remember the lightning started like crashing all over the place. And every time the lightning went off, we ended up realizing that the birds on the roost would gobble every time the lightning went.

SPEAKER_03 37:12

And then I think you had the thunder is what made them gobble. Yes, but they would the lightning would hit. Once we once they started gobbling, we could look in the trees to kind of see what direction they were, and then as soon as the lightning hit, it would light up, and then you could see that bird in the tree, and that thunder would hit, and he'd just like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_05 37:35

It was probably the coolest video I think we ever got of turkeys. I don't know if I've still got that on YouTube that I can pin it. If I do, I will for sure. But yeah, so then it's absolutely downpouring, and and one of those birds like flew down into our lap and ended up getting getting smoked, and he was a good sized bird. So he got mounted, gets to hang out in the office with me. But um, yeah, that hunt was so fun. Yeah, but we did a lot, like you said though, especially if I was filming you, you'd go with a gun and we'd run and gun style it and just you know, sit down next to trees or whatever, and then do that call battle back and forth. Right. And we had a lot of success doing that. Yeah, it was it was fun.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

So yeah, I go I really go back and forth on if I prefer to use a gun or a bow. I've had success with both of them, but the challenge of the shot is with the bow. And that that to me is is fun. But you have the advantage of the blind, and then I feel I don't know, it just feels different. When you run and gun with a with a gun, you have no blind, you're just sitting at the base of the tree, you're trying not to move, like, then you're just it feels more exposed and one-on-one with the bird, and that I don't know, it's cool.

SPEAKER_05 39:06

I think I think personally, and this is not killing one with a gun. I think running gun with a gun is more fun. Oh yeah, I do like it. It is pretty fun. It's cool bringing them in close with a bow and trying to make sure you can get it, but um, but yeah, there's something about that just sitting at eye level with them on the ground and and trying to make it work that but something that my preference a non-turkey hunter wouldn't know, or maybe a a new turkey hunter wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_03 39:39

Um turkeys don't give a crap about a tent. No. They just want they just they're just worried about movement. So um remember that turkey hunt that I I filmed for with Todd? Set up the set up the blind about 30 yards in the middle of the field, off of the the wood line, and had this turkey pop out 150 yards maybe down the field. Wasn't that in the rain too? Yeah. And uh uh Todd said if it came in close enough, he wanted me to shoot it with a bow, but I wanted I really wanted Todd to take a bird. So it came out, I called, it came down, came down, came down, and then Todd was able to shoot it with his gun. But the point of that is is like I've had many times where it seems really stupid to put a blind up in the middle of an open field, yeah, and then put your decoy out in front of it, and it's like, what are you doing? You know, like and it works, yeah. Like a deer, that wouldn't work. You know what I mean? Like they would as soon as they step into the field, they'd look at it and be like, what is that?

SPEAKER_05 40:56

And for a new hunter, I think the benefit of knowing that is naturally I feel like you would want to put your ground blind in the brush row on the edge of the field, right? Right, maybe looking into the field, right? But we found that if you get yourself 30, 40 yards out into the field looking back into the woods, especially if you've got an early season tag before leaves start coming in, you can watch those birds coming to you and you're already set, ready to go. Well, and if you think they're not sneaking up on you from behind.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

If you think about it, they're roosting in the woods, in the trees. So in your case, you had pinpointed where they were roosting and you had figured it out and you had had the time to do that. And to be honest with you, we probably got lucky because we snuck in there close, but we didn't we didn't kick them out, right? Um so if you're trying to hunt in the woods, you gotta be real careful that you're not gonna bust them, right? So if you come on the outside of the woods, they're there, they're going to hit the ground and more than likely hit the field to start, you know. Most of the time we find their day starts in an open area. Yeah, they're trying to like feed and you know, do all that and especially in the rain, they love worms, like they and they're super social, so they get out into a field, they can see each other, and they you know what I mean. So um just don't be afraid to throw a 10 up out in the open, you'll be fine, you know.

SPEAKER_05 42:33

Which is and they're also clumsy, they're not they are not talented flyers, not graceful, so they want to fly down into something open, right? They're not flying down into thick stuff, right? So um yeah, there's a lot of cool little nuances with turkeys that are that are fun, and I feel like once you got it figured out, it's it's entertaining. If you know you've got them on your property, it's it's fun to to get them. It's hard to bring them from four properties over, but the play-by-play hunt that we did together when I had a guy.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

Yeah. That was so awesome.

SPEAKER_05 43:13

That was awesome. Uh what happened with it?

SPEAKER_03 43:18

So we're set up in this wood line, and it's a big hardwoods behind, and we're set up next to this huge oak tree, which is to my left, but it was like good cover, and uh Greg's filming me, so he's behind me with the camera, and he can see beyond, like on the other side, well, where he was sitting, he could see everything.

SPEAKER_06 43:45

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

And I had no vision of anything to the left. So we start calling, we start hearing some gobbling. We're like, all right, you know, there's a bird in the area or whatever, it starts. Working over towards our decoy, and Greg's like, Oh, there's a bird coming. I'm like, Really? Yep. It's a nice Tom. Okay. He's coming from your left. Alright. And then it was like play by play, like, just just wait, just wait. He's coming. He's coming. When he popped out, he was what, 20 yards? Yeah. Like he was on your top. I never saw him. And then you're like, take him. Like he took like three steps and it was like, boom. Yeah. It was crazy. That was awesome.

SPEAKER_05 44:34

That was awesome. That was pretty sweet. Yeah, we've had we've definitely had some fun turkey hunts, that's for sure. But and the season's coming back around, so it'll be it'll be good to get back out there, hopefully a little more than been able to in the past few years. But I would the last thing I would say to that is when we were younger, we knew where all of our turkeys were roosting at. Yeah. We'd go out at night, you know, during fly up time, right? Hit the crow call, hit whatever to turkeys react to loud noises. Right. I've actually discovered it doesn't even have to sound like a specific animal. A lot of people use a crow call because you can be super loud. I don't know if they get startled or what it is. Instantly they gobble. So you could go out at night, watch them fly up, throw out a crow call or show call and howl and then thunder and go, right, thunder. Where I live now, trains, train whistles make them go off. Like anything, anything sudden and loud seems to work. But we would have an idea where the birds were roosting at before we came back the next morning. And we tend to get aggressive. Yeah. Yeah. Like, ideally, I would like to be inside of 80 yards. Right. You know what I mean? Which seems crazy, but yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've we've screwed it up tight enough where the birds didn't know where we were, but they flew over us coming down. Right. You know what I mean? Like, but if you want an exciting turkey hunt, there is nothing better than a turkey gobbling in the morning at daybreak, and you're watching him on the roost like you're like, oh, it's game on right now. Especially if you got a decoy in front of you or anything. Like, I don't know. I would say lean on the side of maybe more aggression, but you might have to get in there a little bit earlier and you might have to sit a little more still than you would right off the bat. But it's a it's a ton of fun to get on top of them.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

That's also um ruined me a little bit. If I sit out there for more than an hour, I'm like, it's done. We're done. We did that last year twice.

SPEAKER_05 46:56

Bag it up, we're out of here. You remember that last year? We had we had 10 birds out in a field, and they weren't making a step to come our direction, and we were finally like, Yeah, let's go get breakfast.

SPEAKER_03 47:07

We're out of here.

SPEAKER_05 47:08

Yeah, that's this is crazy. But they're they're slow too. I mean, yeah. They've got all day to make their rounds and they're not in a rush to And you're you have to remember you're working against nature.

SPEAKER_03 47:23

So naturally the hens go to the tom. And you're wanting a tom to go to the hen. So when you say that a tom holds up, meaning they'll get a hundred yards out, and they'll just be every time you every time you cluck, they just strutting, spinning on a top, doing their little dance. They're like, I'm right here. Right. Come over, what are you doing? And then it gets into that you have to get into their little pea brain mind and pretty much frustrate them and get them ticked off to finally be like, Alright, fine, I'm gonna come over to you. What is going on? You know? Yep.

SPEAKER_05 48:12

So And I think the other piece of advice that somebody gave me first learning how to do this is that if a turkey's gobbling, he's standing still. Yeah, that's true. So as much fun as it is to throw out a call into the woods and hear a turkey gobble back, if you're calling so frequently that all he's doing is gobbling, he's probably not covering ground. When he's coming at you is the time that it's dead quiet and you're getting frustrated. Right. Like, that's the hard part to learn is you don't want to overcall them, but you want to give them just enough that they're like, I'm gonna go check it out. But when they're coming, they're they're not making a lot of noise. Like they're so that would that was a cool thing to learn because I feel like naturally when you're doing a call and you hear a gobble back, you're like, that's sweet. And then you're like, if he keeps gobbling at me, I got it, I got it. Yeah, and eventually he's like, either he's gonna give up on it or it's gonna take him an eternity to get to you because he's just standing still, full strut, spinning in circles, you know. So so yeah, I think I think that's something good to know too. But yeah. What do you think, man? Wrap this one up. Yeah, can't wait for turkey season. I know, I know. The weather got nice about a week ago, and then currently it's snowing again here in Michigan, so it's hard to hard to get in the mood, but we're getting close here. So so yeah, appreciate you guys tuning in this week. Um, to the providers brought to you by smoking it.com. We always appreciate their support. You can check us out on Facebook, Instagram, X, and if you want to watch the show, uh probably even going to put a couple links to uh some turkey hunts that we just talked about today on the YouTube channel. So uh feel free to check us out there as well if you want to. Shoot us a message at theproviderspodcast at gmail.com and we'll try to answer it like the one we just did today. And uh we will plan on seeing you guys next time.