EP7: How Can The Kids Lead Us?

ELA teacher Peter Haun joins Jay, Katie, and Steven to explore how student ownership transforms learning. From AP Language writing projects to innovative uses of AI, Peter shares how giving students real responsibility builds stronger writers, deeper collaborators, and more confident leaders inside and outside the classroom.

Hosts: Jay Haffner - Literacy Consultant, Katie Morrison - Mathematics Education Consultant, Dr. Steven Snead - Supervisor of Curriculum & Assessment.

This podcast is proudly brought to you by Oakland Schools Intermediate School District in the great state of Michigan. Oakland Schools is an educational service agency that offers support services to school districts that are best delivered regionally and provide cost, size and quality advantages to those we serve. Oakland Schools is an autonomous, tax-supported public school district governed by Michigan General School Laws and is one of 56 intermediate school districts (ISDs) established in Michigan in 1962.

If you are an educator in Oakland County, Michigan, check out www.oakland.k12.mi.us to explore the services and professional learning opportunities available to support you. 

Have feedback for the hosts? We'd love to hear from you! Email steven.snead@oakland.k12.mi.us to connect with us. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, welcome to the Teaching Tomorrow Podcast with Jay, Katie, and Stephen. Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, wherever you happen to be watching. We are so glad that you are with us. We hope you're a teacher because this podcast is all about you helping you to inspire some really great ideas for your own class and practice. I will let my esteemed co-hosts introduce themselves.

SPEAKER_05 0:46

Hey, hey, Katie Morrison, Oakland School's Math Consultant. So excited to be here for our episode today.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

And Jay Hafner, Oakland School's Literacy Consultant, equally as excited to be here today.

SPEAKER_05 0:58

I don't know, I'm so excited about our guest.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Yeah, I'm I mean, I'm excited about our guest. I mean, he's kind of a big deal.

SPEAKER_05 1:05

He's a big deal.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

He's kind of a big deal. We're gonna bring him on in a minute. Very, very special treat. Um, but this episode, we want to talk about like student agency, but like for real, for real. Not like, oh, we did a survey. Yeah, we did feedback and they said their favorite color was blue. So now everything's color blue.

SPEAKER_05 1:24

Like, no, or even worse, they said they don't like school, but we just kept doing the same stuff, anyways. I mean, come on. Like, have you seen the MyFi data?

SPEAKER_03 1:32

Year after year. Yeah. I mean, but we can do better, right? And we will do better here on the Teaching Tomorrow podcast. So our topic is how can the kids lead us in learning? Not should the kids lead us in learning, because they should, right? Right. We're all agreeing that's what we're here for, right? We want to dig into the how. Like, how can kids lead us in learning? So before we bring on our steamed guests, uh Jay, let me kick it to you, brother. Like, what are some of your ideas? Like, how can kids lead us in learning?

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Yeah, I mean, I I think first I want to elevate the idea that there is exciting learning happening in classrooms all over Oakland County. And I think one of the things that we're trying to do uh in this particular episode, but with this podcast in general, is to provide a little bit of a platform to elevate all of the really good, exciting things that are that are going on. Um, and the kids are at the forefront of the work. Uh, they are the ones who inspire us to come to work every single day. I know as a teacher, uh early in my career, I I made a decision that I wanted to be a teacher because I didn't want to spend my working hours working with adults. I thought that I could make a bigger difference working with feelings. Well, you know what? Things change over time, and now I find myself working uh with adults. And I still have a smile on my face about that. But let us not forget why many of us get into this profession to begin with. It's because we know we can make a difference in the lives of kids. Are we the ones as adults that have to force the difference upon kids? Or can we as adults create learning opportunities and spaces for the students to take hold of their learning and and turn it into something that they're interested in that helps grow and develop uh in the direction that they want us uh that they want to lead? I think we can do that, and I think we are doing that in a lot of spaces. We just need to create those platforms to celebrate those stories and hear more about that type of learning.

unknown 3:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Well, let's hear more about that type of learning from Katie.

SPEAKER_03 3:36

Katie, what do you say?

SPEAKER_05 3:37

Yeah. I mean, I think like I'll speak for myself. I think a lot of times we as teachers feel like we have to be the experts, right? Teachers, principals, school leaders, administrators. Like we have this knowledge and this expertise. And even when we don't know all the things, we feel like we have to know all the things. Like that's this persona of like being a teacher. And so when I hear this question, how can the kids lead us? I almost think of it as like this liberation from that, right? Like, look at you on a liberation.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

That is the second podcast episode that Katie has talked about liberation.

SPEAKER_05 4:13

Low key? Oh, that feels good. Yeah, revolution. I don't know. Like when I heard this question, I was like, this idea if we can really really do this right, if we can really lean into this, build on this idea that the kids have the knowledge and the expertise in the world that like already exists and that is like formulating for them. Um, that feels really good as an educator to say, wait, I don't have to be the expert in this.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

I don't have to know everything.

SPEAKER_05 4:36

I don't have to know anything. Principles, I don't have to know all the things.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

And don't have to do all the work. Think of all the things that kids are on the forefront of that they they're learning and knowing and discovering things before we as adults are. And sometimes we get in, you know, sometimes that's intimidating. It can be intimidating as a parent when I see my kids learning things that I'm that are ahead of where I am. Um, and I think it can be equally as intimidating as a teacher because we want to have a little bit of control over our environments, but if we can liberate ourselves from maybe if liberate feels like documentary, maybe it's freeing.

SPEAKER_05 5:15

Free and free. No, we're here. This is freedom here at the Teaching Tomorrow podcast. We like freedom to say the kids got a lot of things to share with us.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Yeah, let's give them an opportunity to share those things with us. Well, speaking of share with us, Jay, you want to introduce our esteemed vaunted guests, vaunted guest.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Have you ever been Peter? Have you ever been called? I don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

I don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

We both are. We all three of us. It's made up. Well, you know what?

SPEAKER_00 5:45

We made up all we have agency, right? We made up words. Steven just taught me something. That's right. Again, again in my life.

SPEAKER_02 5:53

Yes, again in your life. The the sage wisdom of Stephen. No, it's pepper over there.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

It's Pete. Pete. I learned a lot from this guy in our time again. We who is PJ?

SPEAKER_02 6:04

So who is Pete? We are joined here today by the vaunted Peter Hahn. Uh Peter is an English language arts teacher who splits his time between Oak Park High School and CASA. For those of you that might not be familiar with CASA, it's the Center for Advanced Studies and the Arts. Uh at CASA, Peter teaches AP language and composition. Uh, and he has been working in uh an innovative project that combines advanced writing instruction with the use of AI. Uh, and the goal has been twofold. It helps students develop the skills necessary to succeed on the AP language analysis essay, which is important. You know, we're aiming for, you know, passing, you want the kids to pass the exam. Uh, but we're also building your easeworking to build their fluency with AI uh as a real world tool. Uh, through this work, uh, Pete students, you know, they're not just learning how to write, they're learning how to make choices, take ownership of their growth. I think when you take ownership of your growth as a high school student, you start to learn how to make uh appropriate choices and you discover where you're heading and where you want to head. Uh, and he's helping kids collaborate with you with each other, both in written and digital spaces. Uh so with uh no further delay, Peter, vaunted as you are, welcome to the show. We are excited to dig into this.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

And excuse me, from the Oxford Dictionary Praised or boasted about. Oh boasted about especially in an excessive way.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

A little bit too much. Maybe that's hyperbolic. I don't know, but I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

We we should we should add as we do with every episode, we are not sponsored by the Oxford English Dictionary in any way. We we are yeah, we are they are not an official sponsor of the show, but thank you for uh Steven for running down that definition. Welcome to the show, Pete. How are you doing so much?

SPEAKER_00 8:00

I am doing well, thank you. Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

So this episode is all about students uh leading in their own learning. Walk us through how you go about creating some of these conditions in your classroom, especially uh at CASA, uh, to really help put these kids in in charge of their growth.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

So apart from the AI. Um so I'm a big proponent for, first of all, a lot of writing. A lot. I mean, um you only get better at writing by writing. Um I mean, it's like any skill, you know, riding a bike. If you haven't ridden a bike in 20 years, you still know how to do it, but but it's rusty, right?

SPEAKER_04 8:38

But should you?

SPEAKER_00 8:40

So, but if you if you pick that bike back up, you you you get back up to hopping the curbs and popping wheelies, you know. So um in AP Lang's really interesting because it's essays that kids maybe have never written. And so we spend a lot of time writing. Um and and this is where it's a little confusing because uh and maybe some other teachers will disagree with my philosophy, but the test is on demand writing, we do on-demand writing. They don't do many outside of class, actually, and we don't revise many because it's one and done, which will I'll come back to the AI portion of that later. Um so so yeah, so we do a lot of writing. We look, we look at a lot of writing, we look at a lot of mentor good and bad samples of writing to try to see and pick up what we feel is a a good skill or a good thing to do and avoid the things that are are are negative or or not good. Um and so, and then I do a lot of collaboration, like at Casa, we have these kind of small common workspaces. I love putting kids in groups of two, three, four, whatever, sending them out in the hall to take a uh a look at a piece of writing and talk about it. I think I creep them out when I say, because every every time there's got to be one group staying in the room, and I get goosebumps, right? I really do when I hear the kids talking, and I just I'm just a fly on the wall, if you will, right? And I feel like sometimes they're they're awkward when I when I'm listening, but I'm like, you guys don't understand how good this conversation is, and I'm not doing anything but listening to what you have to say about that. Um, and and Katie, back to what um you were saying earlier about teachers afraid of like giving up that that control. I think it takes a while to get there. And I'm not saying I'm there yet. Um but when a kid says something that I never thought and I'm like, oh my God, you are not wrong. Like I can't say you're wrong. And that's the thing about I also teach lit at Casa now. So um you know, you get these texts and I say to the kids, I didn't write it, but but you know, I can look at things and figure things out, but if but if you see something and you can back it up with evidence and why you think that I can't say you're wrong. Yeah, I mean, I might not agree with your opinion on it, sure, but it's a valid opinion. Yeah, yeah. Um and I have a crazy can I give an example real quick? Yeah, please, yeah. So just yesterday, and this is a lit one, um, we were looking at the 2019 AP lit poetry prompt, and it's this poem called The Landlady. And it's really creepy about this woman who lets people in, but then she, while they're gone, they go, she goes through their rooms and drawers and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

And one of my kids, there's a poem, there's a poem about my mom. That's right. Yeah, like that's what it's like when you grow up, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Jay. And that's where the conversation went because this woman, in theory, is following everything as Katie comes and goes, as Jay, like, and one kid's like, well, it's kind of like she's a mother, right? And and worried when Jay comes home late and taking note of that and and that kind of thing. But then this one kid says to me, he's like, it was written in 1943. Could it be like the German or Russian government like bringing you in and then watching and taking note of everything? And I'm like, uh maybe not, but I see where you're going with it. Yeah, like you know what I mean. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, don't stop thinking that way, you know. Like once again, I don't see it that way, but I can't say that there's evidence that maybe it's not. I mean 1943, sure, there's a lot of things going on in the world that somebody could have written a poem that's allegorical, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah, I mean that's that's the core of critical thinking, right? Is being able to apply knowledge that you're learning now in other areas, whether we see it that way or we don't see it that way. I think those are exciting moments that happen in the classroom for sure that really do give goosebumps and show us what our kids are capable of doing.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

And here's the thing, so many kids nowadays, and it's probably because of technology, are so afraid of being wrong. Yeah, like they are deathly afraid. And I try to lift that off them and say, I I will never be upset if you try something that doesn't go right. But I need you to try stuff. You need to try. Yeah, you gotta come to the board. We we do a lot of annotating on the board, right? We have the Promethean. So like I pull it up and I'm like, somebody's gonna come up and read and you know, write on and think aloud so others can hear what you're thinking, because I'm not the master of all the knowledge by any means. So um, and once again, I I find that that having them collaborate oftentimes is more powerful than just listening to me go on about a poem I've read 15 times, you know. So um those light bulb moments are fantastic for them too.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

The one thing you you you just said, and I'm just I'm totally vibing with is because I encountered this a lot in my time in the classroom, uh, and even as a father, of breaking through that I don't want to be wrong. And so sometimes there's a there's a a fear or hesitance to take a risk or to try something out new because well, I don't want to be wrong, so therefore I want to try, I won't try. Um how do you break through that? Like, how are you busting through that? Like, how are you helping kids or creating that environment where because we've said, oh, kids should take risks, da-da-da-da-da. But there's a lot of failure behind that risk, right? There's a lot of danger behind that risk. So, how do you navigate those tensions?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

So, so back to those little collaborative groups, oftentimes I'll be like, okay, every group's coming back in, and every group's talking in front of the room, and everyone in the group is talking. So there's that, I think, safety that Katie's with Jay and Steven in front of the room, that she's talked with a group and now she feels a little more empowered to say what she's feeling, even if it came from the group, which then means that next time, now that Katie's been in front in front of everyone looking at her, and she says something out of her mouth, she feels a little more confident next time, even if it's by herself, or maybe it's a pair next time. Like sometimes that takes a lot of work with kids. Yeah, um, certain kids, and you know, as teachers, like you got those kids that Jay's always got his hand up and always wants to go to the board and always and and I appreciate that eagerness too, but I also need to pull those kids out. So I think I feel like group work, and right now at the beginning, they get to pick theirs, then I'll do the whole like one, two, three, four, five, one, two, three, four, five, you know, and the five's gotta go out in the hall and the four stay here, you know. Um, where then they are forced to work with somebody they're not as comfortable with. Um, which once again is is is uncomfortable for a little bit. But these classes are like 20 kids. The interesting thing is is that they come from different schools, so they don't know each other.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

When they step in in my classroom, yeah, for for our listeners, explain what Casa is.

SPEAKER_00 15:20

So Casa's been around for like 50 years. It's a consortium school in South Oakland County, uh, made up of um Berkeley, Ferndale, Clausen, Oak Park, Madison, Lamphier, and Pontiac School Districts. It only operates in the afternoon. Most of the kids attend for two hours. And it was out of a need to pool resources for small districts back, you know, 50 years ago. Um, for instance, like Oak Park might not have enough kids in AP chemistry to uh, you know, to to pay a teacher. But but if you have three from here and five from there and six from there and two from there, then we can make it happen. So um so it's a consortium. Okay. So it brings all these kids from different schools together. And for some, they're looking for that new face or that new niche to fit in. And for other kids, it's just I need to take um some high-level club courses. I want to push myself, and my home school perhaps does not offer those things.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

So you're really pushing there, you're pushing that envelope.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Well, so there's like two different factions, if you ask me at Casa. I feel we have like 15 AP classes or something. Um and now we have some agreements with Lawrence Attack there that where kids can do some some computer stuff. Shout out to Lawrence Attack, yeah, for sure. Um, and get college credit for a computer class. I don't know enough about it. And then this year is the first year we actually have a teacher from College for Creative Studies coming, and the kids can take a uh a drawing class there and they can get college credit through CCS. Um so so there's these high-level ones, and then there's uh some really cool electives. Like um, one of the teachers um is a former science teacher from Hazel Park, and he teaches science electives like biology of food. And he talks about the science. Yeah, the science behind the food. It's not a cooking show. No, it is. So already this year they've made basil. I'm sorry, not basil. They've made pesto, they've made salsa, and they've pickled pickles, and they talk about the science behind what happens when you do those things, when you mix those things together and how the flavors change or breakdown or enzymes and things like that. So it's a really cool, and then there's yoga and dance and some of the other ones, Heroes and Villains, which is a cool kind of walks the line between social studies and and English, um, about like mythology and stuff, and modern mythology too. Percy Jackson, Harry Potter, stuff like that. So all interesting.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

I do think we should have an episode in which we bring folks on to pickle pickles and salsa. And I've got pickles and salsa. Yeah, have a whole food episode. Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

It's funny because I see kids walking, I'm like, you you like those pickles? Because I'll take them off your hands. Right? You you can eat that salsa? Like I'll take that with me. Yeah, like good homemade stuff. And I used to be next to that class and I'd walk in, I'm like, oh, they're making pickles today. I'm like, yes, nice, yeah. It's around the corner now.

SPEAKER_05 18:15

So yeah, yeah. Yeah. I feel like if we go back to the question about like how do we get the kids to lead us, I'm wondering like what role does relationships and trust play in like creating a space that allows the teacher, right, to feel comfortable and competent enough to cultivate that space. But then also for the students, right? Like towing this line of like I'm afraid to be wrong, or I don't know if I have something to say. Do you really trust me to to lead in this space? Like, what do you think what do you have to do?

SPEAKER_00 18:49

If you ask me relationships, if without relationships, it's not happening. Um I mean, you hear stories about kids who are like, oh, that teacher doesn't like me. Well, that that's bad on the teacher because a kid never no kid should think that that you don't like them, you know. Um and so it takes some time. And um, you know, I I do like some, you know, of course, get to know you things. I have this really cheesy thing that I do. I'm gonna tell you. Please, please. So can I wait? It's just between us. Every summer I get to go up to Lake Huron and all of our in the thumb and there's lots of rocks on the beach. And so I pick all these rocks and I take them in, and I'm like, you know what's interesting is Steven kind of looks like Jay, right? But he doesn't look like Jay. Just like this rock kind of looks like this rock, but it doesn't look like that rock. And I said, regardless of the rocks, there's three things I would say about these rocks. They're strong, they're beautiful, and they're unique. And then I have the kids come pick their rock. And it's a it's a it's a little test, if you will. I tell them They kind of made me cry, man. Oh, yeah. Try and hold it back. Anyway, and I tell them, put this in your backpack, and when you're not sure if you're strong, beautiful, or unique, take it out. But then the last week of school, I want to see that rock again. So it's also this like responsibility little thing. So I feel like maybe like things like that. Yeah, I think when it's something unique rather than just like a all about me thing and color this one, that color, I think um hits them a little differently if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

Um and I feel like some of them are archies, some of them are like, oh, you see, you're cheesy, but some of them I think they need that. Right? They really, really need that to know that I think unique is cool and and you're still strong and you're still beautiful, even if you don't look like the prettiest rock, you are all those things still. So anyway, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_05 20:38

So this is reminding me of a colleague of ours who also collects rocks for her disciplinary literacy kickoff. And I'm like, look at all these people going around collecting rocks, making meaning of the rocks that they collect.

SPEAKER_02 20:48

You can find you can learn a lot from a rock.

SPEAKER_05 20:51

I mean, yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

So how about this? I even have a kid in K Lang. He's like, Mr. Han, I wrote something for you about the rocks.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

That's great. Yeah, on his own. He just brought it to me and wrote something about the rocks. So yeah. So I feel yes, back to your question, Katie. I it without relationship, I mean, nothing happens if you ask me. So yeah, that's paramount. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Yeah, and it's the relationship that provides the the builds the safety.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Sure, absolutely. Yes, right.

SPEAKER_02 21:20

Builds that safety, that confidence for kids. So yeah, so I'm curious uh to let's uh get in while while we have a little bit of time here. I want you to sort of walk us through and explain uh the the project you you did last year, you're doing a little bit this year, uh integrating AI into uh the student experience here. And you know, just to plug a few episodes ago, we had our AI episode with uh Dr. Andrea Zellner. Uh so we had we've had a conversation. Feel free to go into our back catalog and find that episode and listen to it again. Another shameless plug.

SPEAKER_05 21:54

Yeah, I gotta listen to it again. Yeah, listen to it again again. Double like.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Double like. Yes, double like. So let's uh let's get into that, Pete. Tell us a little bit about what you're doing with that uh and and how the kids are uh either embracing or pushing back against uh the use of AI.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Um so I know Andrea from many, many years ago. And so um I'm one of those philosophies of if it's really good work, I I want to be part of it. Um and so she had some sort of study last year, funded, I don't know by who, and she was looking for teachers, um really, I think just secondary English teachers to use AI somehow in the classroom. Um and of course I scooped that up because I wanted I, as I said to the kids, I said AI's not going anywhere, it's just gonna be there more and more every single day. Um maybe we should figure it out. I'm a little scared of it. Um I I don't know what you guys feel about it. Um, but um I I decided that when we were doing our our synthesis essay work that we would take um and and it's a platform called Writing Partners, um, and that Andrea has a relationship with the man who created it. Um and so I said to the kids, I said, this is kind of what I'm thinking. Um how about if we take one of our essays and we upload it and we have the computer or the the program, the bot, whatever you want to say, um, help us with our commentary. Because to me, that's always the hardest. I don't care which essay it is. Kids can come up with a thesis, what they want to say, kids can come up with evidence, it's saying what they want to say. The the thesis is these are the three points I want to make, or these two points or four points or whatever. But the actual saying of it is the hardest for them. So and they struggle with it. And I say, You're not gonna be perfect at it now. We gotta do this a bunch of times, right? So then I'm like, and and the guy helped me. He he he said, Um, well, share the rubric with me. So he somehow took and bodified the AP bodify, yes, right. And it was only the middle section because there's a thesis score, there's this evidence and commentary score, and sophistication. And we were only focusing on the kids' commentary. And so I'm like, Well, let's upload them up there, and you got to start asking the questions. And there was a certain level of frustration because the kids thought, oh, I would just say, uh, what do you think of my essay? Or or what score would you give my essay? But it's not that easy. And it's the nuanced language of asking a bot something that um that you really want. And so there was a a certain level of kids are like, I'm not getting the right answer. And I'm like, Well, are you do you know the right answer that you're looking for? Like, maybe you need to refine your question. And and it's really interesting because the way uh the feedback would come, it would come with suggestions and then it would ask you a question, looking for you to dive back in some more. Um and so um it was a really interesting take because as I told the kids, we're not revising. Right. I want you to take whatever just happened, and next time we write, you think about that. You keep that in your fore in the forefront of your mind and consider doing that. And and with any feedback, and I pulled up Hattie says the effects I'm 0.75 to 0.79.

SPEAKER_05 25:05

So feedback is dropping the statistics on us in this episode.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

So so anyway, so feedback fast and and um direct and in student-friendly language is key. And um so but I what I what I said is though whenever I give you feedback, you could take it or leave it. It's still your essay. You might say, Oh, Han doesn't know what he's talking about, or I don't like what he said. You could do the same thing with the computer, right? Oh, that's interesting. And I'm like, you're not just taking you you're thinking about making edits, and no one would ever criticize you for having your teacher read your paper and give you feedback, or your classmate, or your mom, or anyone. So like I just see this as another level of feedback that's really fast, really fast. Um because if I've got 60 kids in AP classes and I give them all an an essay, that's taking me a week or so to get that feedback to them. Whereas we can do this every once in a while, you get feedback, you know, super fast.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Yeah, so then ultimately what they're learning is they're they're learning how to refine as a process that though they can't, it's even disassociated from their essay, it's an it's a process that they can use outside of the classroom. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 26:14

But they're also learning like how to ask good questions. Right, yes, which is another skill. I mean, in this like world of AI, right, which is not going away. We gotta like learn how to use it and ask it the questions that we want the answers for. Um, but also just like human-to-human connection and conversation for critical thinking.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Well, speaking of questions that we want the answers for, we're gonna transition to a new type of answer in our segment of our show we call hot takes. We're gonna get hot, hot, wild, and crazy on the topic of having kids lead us here as we begin to wind down this part of the show with our very good friend and colleague Peter Hahn. I'll kick us off with our hot take, but but Pete, you were really kind of speaking to this, like letting go, like letting go of the control and really inviting. Now you violate this time, right? Oh man, King Disney, Queen Disney coming at me. This is not sponsored by Disney. Um, but really inviting the kids to be co-designers, co-authors, co-engineers of the educational experience. Sometimes we feel like we've got to be in control. We've got to let that go. Let go and let the kids. Jay, what's your hot take?

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Yeah, uh, Pete, you said it, feedback. That's my hot take. In what ways can we improve and increase the amount of feedback that we're giving students on the work they're doing? AI can be a thought partner and a co-pilot in the feedback process. Doesn't necessarily mean it's doing the work for them, doesn't necessarily mean that they're plagiarizing where we're, you know, right from AI. But if we position AI as a thought partner in feedback, I mean, let's be real. We've all been teachers. How many times have we just had papers piling up around us because we can't find the time to give feedback? Right. But it is, we got to give feedback to the kids. So I wanna I wanna reach out, I wanna see how we're positioning AI to provide feedback to students, what students are doing with that feedback and how they're growing their practice from it, their skills from it.

SPEAKER_01 28:13

All right, you're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

Give it to us. Is it are are you about to liberate us all with your hot take?

SPEAKER_05 28:19

I mean, maybe we'll see. I don't know how many, how many educators are gonna want to do it, so I don't know. We'll see. But I'm thinking about moving away from student voice because student voice sometimes to me feels like a collection of voice after we've done something to you. And so I want us to move to student power. Ready? What if students co-presented teacher professional development at the beginning of the school? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Wow, I love that idea. Wow, that's pretty good. I love it. That is really good.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

I like but but but will school districts refuse to give up the control to the kids because they're worried about it.

SPEAKER_05 28:54

I mean, this is why I think back to what I said at the beginning, right? There's this like mindset of the adults, the leaders, the teachers, everyone in this space that like we hold all of the knowledge and the knowledge of how we start the school year and what teachers need to know.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

All right, so hot hot take 2.0. Oh, oh, you got two oh two point oh. Well, that feeding off of Katie's hot take. Right. Hot take 2.0. We are constantly having conversations about ways in which teachers need to relinquish some of that control to students. So I'm speaking again to my admitted, my fellow administrator pals, APs, principals, district administrators. We got to give up some of that control over professional development and create spaces and opportunities for the for the kids to co-present. But that does that that's relinquishing of control. We can't put it all on the teachers and ask them to do it. We have to be the ones as administrators and district leaders to create those spaces to allow it to happen. So I'm coming back for you, administrators. Make it happen.

SPEAKER_03 29:56

Yeah, make it happen. So we'll leave a final word to our vaunted guest, Mr. Peter Hahn.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Don't don't be afraid of the AI and don't be afraid of the kids. Oh, uh the power of the AI or the power of the kids.

SPEAKER_05 30:10

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

I love it. I love it. That's hot. Very hot. Uh, Jay, take us out, brother. All right, that's a wrap for today.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

A huge thank you to, as we said, the vaunted Peter Hahn for joining us today. Uh, and thank you to all of us uh for all of us, for all of you for spending time with us uh here uh as we work through the opportunities of of allowing students uh to lead us in their learning. We hope you join us next time. We're gonna be diving into a conversation that I know uh you're not gonna want to miss. How do we cultivate academic identity? Uh and for this uh for this episode, we're gonna be joined by someone so exciting, so crucial to the conversation that we're we're not even gonna reveal the name right now. That name is gonna be a special guest. That's what you gotta do. We've got to leave them with the uh the like the anticipation to be continued. We're getting we're we're starting to figure this out here on the uh on the podcast.

SPEAKER_05 31:13

Only episode seven, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Right. It's seven episodes in, still figuring it out, still growing. In the meantime, don't forget to follow or subscribe to Teaching Tomorrow wherever you get your podcasts, and leave us a rating or comment.

SPEAKER_04 31:25

Smash the like.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

It helps other educators find these conversations. And if you like what you heard, share this episode with a colleague who could use a little inspiration uh during the school year, and we all need a little inspiration. Right. Uh, until next time, keep teaching, keep learning, and keep building the tomorrow your students can believe in because here at Teaching Tomorrow, we believe in you. See you next time. Believe in you. Bye bye.