EP9: How Do We Make STEM a Place Where Girls Belong?

In this episode, Shanita Canady, Detroit educator and community leader, shares insights on how to make STEM a place where girls truly belong. Drawing on her work in computer science education and community programming, she discusses how schools can break down gender stereotypes, build inclusive learning environments, and inspire more girls to see themselves as future innovators and leaders in STEM.

Hosts: Jay Haffner - Literacy Consultant, Katie Morrison - Mathematics Education Consultant, Dr. Steven Snead - Supervisor of Curriculum & Assessment.

This podcast is proudly brought to you by Oakland Schools Intermediate School District in the great state of Michigan. Oakland Schools is an educational service agency that offers support services to school districts that are best delivered regionally and provide cost, size and quality advantages to those we serve. Oakland Schools is an autonomous, tax-supported public school district governed by Michigan General School Laws and is one of 56 intermediate school districts (ISDs) established in Michigan in 1962.

If you are an educator in Oakland County, Michigan, check out www.oakland.k12.mi.us to explore the services and professional learning opportunities available to support you. 

Have feedback for the hosts? We'd love to hear from you! Email steven.snead@oakland.k12.mi.us to connect with us. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome, good morning, good evening, good afternoon, wherever you happen to be listening to the Teaching Tomorrow podcast with Jay, Katie, and Steven. I am one of 33.3% of your hosts, Steven.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

So Alpha Poe to throw a stat on our episode today. I am a few maths.

SPEAKER_04 0:41

And I am Jay Hafner, Oakland Schools Literacy Consultant. Happy to be here as a point 33.33. 333. It's 33. 33.33.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

How you represent.

SPEAKER_04 0:56

Oh, I do.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

You started saying both.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

I'm going to represent as a third. I think I'll get you together.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

I was going to say you like started one way and then morphed into another way. So, you know, a percentage, a decimal or a fraction. All of it. Either way.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

All of it. I'm one leg of a stool. We're always learning and teaching here at the Teaching Tomorrow Podcast with Jay Katie and Steve. This is a real, this is going to be a fun one. To be fair, I think all of our episodes are fun ones, but I'm really interested and passionate in this particular topic today. Today's topic, how do we make STEM a place where girls belong? How? Not if, but how do we make STEM a place where girls belong? And so we're going to bring on our guest here in a minute. She got some letters behind her name. Like she ain't new to this. She's true to this. So we're excited to bring her in in a few minutes. But kicking us off, how do we make STEM a place where girls belong? And I think this will come out a lot in our conversation where we're really talking about like identity work, right? How do we shape and mold and not incidentally, but intentionally build those experiences with our girls to build that identity that I am a scientist and I belong and I can contribute in the community of science and engineering and math from a very young age, right? So I think a lot of times in the parent community, uh, we think about uh uh like getting to advanced science and like middle school and high school, and of course we want to, you know, shift more girls to those courses. I think starting at middle schools and high school with that identity work is too late. Like that's too, too late. Now I'm not saying if if you're listening, like if you haven't started, go ahead start. Start wherever you are. It is no judgment. We love you at the Teaching Tomorrow podcast here with JK. But if you are influential in a K through 12 space, get to the babies. Yeah. Right? Get to the babies to shape that identity a perhaps a little earlier than what the broader society might be thinking of, or at least that's my idea. Jay, what about you? How do we make STEM a place where girls belong?

SPEAKER_04 3:11

Yeah, I think it's uh it it all starts at a young formative age, I think is the is the entry point. But it's not just it's reframing how we think about this. Okay, okay. It's I don't in my and this is I I just I don't think it's about how do we get more girls interested in STEM. It's how do we create spaces that is deserving of girls to be to want to be a part of it, deserving, uh yeah, creating those spaces that welcomes them. And it's not just like, you know, a whisper that, you know, this is good for you. Come on in. It is literally how do we encapsulate their their interests, their voice, their their place and their space within this STEM community. And if you do that at an early age, they it it grows into a space where they want to be a part of it. They feel valued in this space. And so I think it's interesting. We're gonna have this conversation specific to STEM because it's important. But I think a lot of what we're gonna talk about today speaks to a larger inclusion model, but bigger than that. It's it's it's spaces within our society. It's creating opportunities for young ladies to be included, involved, and ultimately grow into into the leaders that we all know that they that they are.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think like in preparation for this, I was doing some like research on stats out there in terms of like that identity piece. And we talk about like such a young age, and studies are showing that girls as early as six years old are determining that STEM science math isn't a field that's for them. Um, six years old. I mean, that's that's our kindergartners, right? And so, you know, you talk about our families and our parents and all of those messages that they're receiving even before they enter the kindergarten space, are are channeling what it means to be a scientist, a mathematician, and an engineer that have long-lasting implications on who's represented in these fields. And, you know, one of the reasons I'm so excited about our guests, who we'll introduce in a second, is because she spent time in the educational world as a teacher, but also in the corporate world and was able to see what representation of females looks like when we, as early as six years old, are saying that these places aren't the kind of spaces that you belong, but also that, you know, are valued places for you to be a part of. Um, and so why don't we go ahead and introduce our guests? Let's go. So I am really excited today to welcome our guest, Shanita Kennedy, is a Detroit-based educator, programmer, and community leader with a strong passion for equity and technology and public spaces. She spearheaded computer science education programs as DPSCD's senior director of the Office of Computer Science. She has computed contributed to regional leadership as part of the Inforum Michigan, Southeast Michigan Regional Council. Got a word, a mouthful there, advocating for women's advancement and community development through strategic programming and is currently leading public programming and partnerships at the Doe Lewis Greenway Partnership. So welcome to our podcast. And as I mentioned, you've spent time and spaces in both schools, but also in the community. And so I want to start with, in your personal experience, what have you noticed about the representation of girls and women in the STEM field, and why is it such an important topic for K-12 educators to be thinking about?

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Yeah, so like you said, I started off in education, took a little bit of a hiatus and worked for a couple of years at GE as a software engineer. And really what I saw is there weren't very many women there. Um, out of our team of five, there were two of us. Um, oftentimes we were overlooked, over talked, um, given, you know, the easiest task of the project. Um, and so that just really got me to thinking, you know, if I'm if I'm experiencing this at 37 years old as an adult in the workforce, what are we gonna go back and tell our young girls who may have aspirations of, you know, being in this career area? And so that's when I really, really got started volunteering. Um, I volunteered at the Michigan Science Center with their steminista program. And uh you someone said it before, starting as early as possible. Um, even in that program, I was working with girls in third and fourth grade who said, Oh, yeah, I'm a Python programmer. I know how to do Python, I've done C. And I thought that's amazing. Um, and so it's really all about the confidence. The earlier you you you you get them interested and you expose them to these things and you tell them that you do belong and you're just as much a scientist as an and an engineer as anyone else, then they never think anything different. They just grow up with that in their heads.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

Like this is just normal.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

This is just how the world this is just normal. This is how it should be. And it is normal, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:17

Yeah, right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Yeah. Yeah. So in your experience, what are some of the subtle or maybe not so subtle, barriers that keep girls and women from pursuing STEM fields?

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Sure. So honestly, when I think about even in my personal experience, it starts at home. And I don't think it's purposeful, but I know thinking about my experience, I was never really pushed to be an engineer, not at a young age. It was always, oh, you can be a teacher, oh, maybe you'll be a nurse, maybe you'll be a news reporter. It was never you could be an engineer, a mathematician, a technologist. And so um inadvertently, you know, we we don't push girls towards those fields. And so we just start to think, oh, well, that's that's not for us, right? So um there, and then even in schools, once again, inadvertently, even as teachers, sometimes we tend for math things or engineering things or things that require our hands in building things to rely more on the boys or to call more on the boys to do those things, or the counselors will refer the boys to those types of classes and they'll refer the girls. I was in the, you know, I took a lot of business classes, I took accounting and things like that in high school. I wasn't really pushed to do the science and the math. So I I really don't think it's purposeful, but I I don't know, it's so ingrained in us for so long that it's just kind of automatic where we push the boys versus the girls.

SPEAKER_03 9:42

Yeah, so I'm I'm wondering, like at the you know, there's say what you will though, like like policies, like district wide or statewide policies. You know, the the Teaching Tomorrow podcast aims to have teachers and like building level, school level leaders to be our core listening audience. And so I'm wondering, like, given that's where we currently are, if I'm if I'm a school leader, if I'm a teacher, how do I deprogram, right? So let's say I'm with you, I'm like, yeah, I I want to do, I want to start like like day one. What's something that let's just start with like a classroom teacher, a first grade teacher who's self-contained, so he or she is teaching all the subjects except for the specials, right? Um what would be some things that they could do to sort of deprogram where we are to reprogram towards a different trajectory?

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yeah, it really starts with thinking about making sure that we represent all different types of people. Even when we think about how we decorate our classroom, who's on the posters that we're putting up? Are we putting up and this is not just for girls, this could be religion, race, culture, but who are we putting up there? Because really every child that walks into that classroom should be able to see someone that looks like them that they can relate to. So the type of people we put, the different fields that they're in, um, even interest-wise. So I noticed a lot even when I first started teaching coding, they wanted me to have a video game focus. Everything is very game-based. And that's great for the people that like that. But what about the people who aren't interested in video games, right? So making sure that even the activities that we do are diverse. Yeah, you may do one activity that deals with video games, but maybe another activity is something else. So really asking the kids what their interests are, I think is the best thing.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

Wait a minute, one more time. Could you say that one more time? Say that what you just said one more time.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Ask them what they want, let them be in charge of their own learning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

But I I think that's so powerful. I, you know, I say that tongue in cheek because I think sometimes, you know, so in full transparency, we are Jay, Katie, and Steve and I are uh employees of an ISD consultancy where we have a certain level of expert. And I think, you know, there's like, well, what does the research say? What do the experts say about the thing? And then there's of course an appropriate space for that. What do the kids say? Like, what do they say that they want and need from their own education? And I still feel like in many spaces, we don't give that enough energy. So we've we've planned the meal for you, and we're trying to like get you to buy in to like this thing that we've made, with you in mind, but really the adults have made the experience based upon adult biases, adult wants, adult desires. And and I just I think it's brutal that you've said that that the more we can put our kids in the driver's seat, particularly our girls, about what they want for themselves. And I even think it's a two-way street, right? It's asking them gets them to think about what they want for themselves. Because they might not know at first, but we need to engage them in that cognitive self-reflection and thinking, and again, identity shaping of, well, yeah, I am the master of my destiny and my the world is my oyster, right? It's not just this pre-programmed flight check that you've made for me. And sometimes, sometimes again, looking in the mirror, the lesson plan can feel like that. Here's the checklist of the stuff that I've planned that you got to go through. Sometimes you just gotta slow up and let the the kids, our young girls, really self-direct, you know, their learning and really allow them to direct us. Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_04 13:30

Yeah, I'm uh you know, I really want to get at like how we frame STEM in general, especially to our the you know, our kindergartners, first graders, and second graders. And it's you like you you brought it up and you said so much of it defaults into like programming or gaming, but it's really about creativity and it's about problem solving, it's about collaboration and working together. These are if you think about like creativity, problem solving, and collaboration and unpack what those mean, those are barn doors for girls to walk through, right? They are wide open spaces for girls to walk through at a young age to be able to see how they make those connections to STEM. So, my my question to you, and what I'm what I get what I'm curious about unpacking is maybe some of the specific work that you've done in your career to engage the the elementary girls or just students in general around STEM. How are what's the best practice around framing what STEM is, opportunities that it provides? How what's some of the work you've done to just frame STEM at the elementary level?

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yeah, it's it's I love the way you said it about it being about collaboration, problem solving. Um a lot of times we we talk about computational thinking, right? So that can apply to really any subject area. Um, but really we let them know we want you to be able to think critically. We want you to be able to think about problems that you may have in your home, in your personal life, in your neighborhood, and how you can use technology to solve those things. And when we can make it relatable like that, that's when the kids really get into it because they're like, hey, this is something I can use today. I can actually take this out in the world and use it. It's relevant to me now. It's not just something my teachers are making me do because I have to be here. Um, and so we've done a lot of work surrounding that. First of all, just letting them know that we're all learning together. It's nothing to be afraid of. You're going to make mistakes. That's the first thing, especially when I'm teaching kids how to code. I tell them, you're gonna fail many, many times. So let's just get that out the way right now. Don't be afraid to do that. You're gonna fail, I'm gonna fail, but eventually we're gonna get it right. And there's nothing wrong with that. And so just getting them out of that fear of not being right all the time. Because really in STEM, a lot of it is, you know, it's it's creativity, it's problem solving, but it's also there are multiple ways to solve the same problem. So there's no one correct answer. So don't worry about that. Yeah, just think about the unique way that you can solve that problem.

SPEAKER_04 16:15

Yeah, and framing that is it to young kids in particular is an exciting way. How is it being allowed to fail, right? Being able to fall down and get back up and try again. Um, you know, full disclosure, I have a second grade daughter. And when she comes home and and has, when she's learned things in school, uh, science in particular, that relate to things that are going on in our house and in our community, when she's bringing those home, trying those things out at home, having conversations about failing and not getting it right, but let's think about a different way to solve it. She's not processing that failure as a bad thing. She's processing it as a challenge that she's really eager and anxious to solve and to continue with. And I think that is that is something that I think we can bring and frame around around this topic, with young girls in particular, is building up the courage to be able to say, I didn't do it this time. There's another way to get at it. Let me get at this problem, let me be a part of this and let me lead through this. I think that's an exciting opportunity, but sometimes we don't necessarily frame it as an exciting opportunity, right? And so it's just sort of like, you know, we we just close off those walls and those opportunities don't exist. And that can be, you know, frustrating.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

Well, I'm I'm wondering where you I want to go deeper into this aspect of like fear and and risk and chance taking. What's your experience of like where that comes from?

SPEAKER_01 17:48

That's an excellent question because to be honest, that's something I still grapple with even now, right? In my everyday work. And I don't know what it is, but it seems to affect women the most. Even just in my conversations with my husband, you know, I'll say certain things and he's like, oh, that's fine. If it doesn't work out, you'll just try something else. No big deal. But for me, it's like, well, no, I want to do it right. I don't want to fail. And so I even thinking way back, maybe just from our childhood, when we're playing with dolls, think about Barbie dolls and how perfect looking they are. You know, I feel like we're just always meant to do everything right and to be nice and perfect. And, you know, it just kind of spirals as we get older. It just stays in the back of our minds that um, you know, we have to be nice and we can't fail. We're afraid to try things. And what if I try it and it doesn't work? Um, and it just seems like men don't have that. They're like, if I try it and it doesn't work out, I'll try something else. Who cares? So trying to get those thoughts out of their head is what I've really worked a lot with.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Yeah, yeah. So I there's a lot of things circulating in my head. I mean, one of the things that we're talking about, um, connected to like asking the kids what they want, making it relevant, like bringing it to real problems, feels like something that's like best practice and good for all students, not just for girls. Um, and so that's really circulating with me. But there's also like I I looked up a stat for this episode, and it's just something that I like can't move past, and I'm so interested in everybody, you know, Shanidi, your perspective on this. So when I read college boards, like most recent statistics where they're laying out the demographics of who takes AP tests, and in their most recent um data that in which they they put out there said that female high school students account for only 23% of AP computer science and 29% of AP physics students. And I just like Yeah, that's I mean, I just think about when we're talking about representation and like, you know, girls seeing themselves on the walls and then the relevance, but just like what it means to walk into a class in which you are only one of two. Or three other girls in a classroom of 30 kids, and what that just automatically says about whether or not you belong in that space. And I just, it's really, really very important. And think about that stat too.

SPEAKER_04 20:14

That means if that stat, that's a high school AP class, that means we're losing the other 80%, 70 to 80%, well before they walk into high school. And that is we we have to we have to admit that. We have to own that.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

I mean, and do people know that?

SPEAKER_03 20:33

Yeah. But you know, like but but I'm seeing all of these things kind of congeal together with with what you just said, Janina, about this culture of of fear or hesitance to take risks. So yeah, like how do we bust through that? Like like what are systems, structures, even ways of thinking and talking, you know, within our schools to reverse this sort of mentality of I'm not gonna do that because that's hard and I'll fail, so I'm not gonna try that. Like how, what it what can we do to sort of fight that culture? Because I think that culture then bleeds into the 23% of AP science uh represented by women. And we know that a lot of our honors and AP classes have lots of underrepresentation within them. So I but I think the universal bond that might be exactly what you just said, because you smart. Um so yeah, what what can we do?

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Yeah, I think once again, it starts early, as early as possible. But I think we've had a lot of success also in separating and having focused groups that just focus on girls, right? So things like Girls Who Code, Black Girls Code, the Michigan Council of Women and Technology, programs like that that actually just separate the girls, give them some leadership abilities, give them some confidence, a place where they feel safe to talk about what they're feeling, you know, as as a as a girl and how they feel about you know seeing themselves belonging STEM, I think is super important. I worked for the Girl Scouts for a little bit, and it was wonderful to be able to come there and expose the girls to things that weren't traditional girl things. Because I came in and I said, you might not like me, but I want to shake this up. I'm tired of cookies, I'm tired of taking cooking classes. Let's get them in construction. We started working with Saxie and we did a construction program. We started working with robotics teams and getting them. We had a whole robotics expo, and it was amazing to see all these groups of nothing but girls building robots and being able to talk to how they built this robot, how they coded it, and to speak confidently. And you could just see the light in their eyes, how much they enjoyed it. But it's all about the exposure and and pushing them and then getting back to the parents and explaining to them how important these things are and how important it is to expose your kids, a boy or a girl, to all different areas because you just never know what's gonna spark something.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

So yeah you mentioned, and that that's we haven't necessarily talked about as much in this episode, about working with the parents and the families and the caregivers, right? Because because sometimes, not all the time, not many, but sometimes, like we have uh biases about what girls can and cannot do that sometimes are generational in nature. And so, you know, with every generation, what is that? Um uh Reverend Dad and Gamartha King says the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. And the answer that is like, but people have to be active in that bending, right? So, what's that active role in bending and working with our families and caregivers about helping them understand and make and perhaps shifting some of their concepts and experiences about what girls can and cannot do?

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Absolutely. So, something that I did start when I was at Detroit Public Schools was we started having family coding nights. Yeah, you know, coding. We started having family coding nights.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Hold on, I got I gotta pause. Family coding nights. Is that is that the universal connection between all four of us at the table that at one point or another we were all employees of within Detroit? Now I'm DPS, I'm not all the max letters. Yeah, DPS C D. C D DC. But give a brief shout. So I I want to give a shout out to Pershing, the old Detroit Technology High School, Denby High School.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

I'll have to where I started and got my roots was Central High School on Tuxedo. I I mean that is the place that I will forever be. That was the place that I grew as an educator and learned and loved what teaching mathematics to high school students was. And I will forever be grateful for Central High School and Detroit Public Schools.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

Detroit made us.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Shout out to Derfee, yes.

SPEAKER_03 25:03

So yeah, so on that family and and and caregiver, you know, angle, what are some moves that so again, if I'm a teacher, I'm a building principal, uh, maybe even I'm in like an early childhood center director somewhere, um, what are some things that I could do with my families and caregivers about supporting their girls on STEM?

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Yeah, absolutely. So we were all about being able to provide things that were an easy lift, something that wasn't too hard to get them started, but to really just give them a taste of what their kids are going to be learning so that they can share that joy with them. So using things like Scratch Junior, which are black uh drag and drop coding. So you don't have to know syntax or anything like that. You just drag them, click them together, they're like puzzle pieces, and you can immediately see what your program does. Using things like code.org, which has a lot of curriculum that's already put together, hour of code, super easy. Parents can go on there, pick, you know, pick whatever uh it may it fits their interests, and they can immediately go in there and do an activity with their child. So we like to bring them together, have them do some coding together so that they can see that it's fun, they're not afraid of it, things that they can share with their um that their child. But also we had some times where we separated them. We had the kids go off and do some things and we talked a little bit deep more deeply with the parents about why is this important and what type of skills are your child gonna get out of this. And it's not about making your child be an engineer, but just making them able to be successful in technology in in 2025, right? So these skills that they're learning will apply to any area.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

Yeah, yeah. So I am gonna bring us back to a part of our episode that we call hot takes, where Jay, Steven, and I share an idea that might be out there, might be best practiced. A little spicy, a little sizzle. Um, but just really getting our educators, our listeners to think about an idea that might spark something that causes them to think differently, do differently, implement something differently in their classroom. And then we always leave our last hot take for our special guest. So I'll go ahead and kick us off with the first hot take. This way I know, this way I know my hot take won't be taken by my other two esteemed colleagues. Um, but something that like has really been connecting and resonating with me. And Jay, you started us off this episode, was really making me think about like maybe we just have like a marketing issue in STEM. Like maybe what people think science, technology, engineering, and math is feel so off-putting or so out there or so impossible. And what we really need to be doing is stop isolating STEM from the rest of the learning experiences and instead like show that they are are in this beautiful design space really melded together. And, you know, going back to that stat I shared, while women represent 29% of AP test takers, they represent 79% of the takers in AP art and design. And so there's something about the representation of women in the humanities. And I wonder what it could look like to really combine biology with fashion, right? These like areas that might come together in this really like beautiful way, or like consider telling a data story that brings together some aspects of journalism in a way that feels connected and real world and relevant, that connect these ideas, going back to what you said, Janita, about asking the kids like, what are you interested in? And how do we show them that science, technology, engineering aren't separate, but all of those skill sets that we want kids to developing are infused within those areas of interest that they have.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

I don't want to go after Kenny.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

I'll go. I'll answer this on the other thing. I was gonna say, Jane's just I'm just building up ideas that Jane. The mics are attached to the table, but she could just totally drop the mic. She could. Yeah, she could. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:03

It's also clear that we don't have production meetings before these because we don't really share our hot takes with one another. So we do not. We do not. This is a very authentic podcast. Oftentimes, oftentimes there's overlap. So um I I think I'm just gonna go carrying on this conversation we've been having and this thought that's been ringing in my head is that when it comes to a lot of these issues societally and in education, specifically with STEM, I think we don't need to approach this as far as like, well, what do we have, what what do girls have to do to find their way into STEM?

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:41

We don't have to fix our young ladies.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

No.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

We need to fix a system, right? It's and and that is true, that is a true statement in across a lot of different ways. It's the system that needs to be fixed in order to open these spaces for our young ladies to feel like they belong in these in these spaces. And that starts by us as adults and uh us as educators. And these conversations are happening inside of our schools. And I'm so proud that a lot of teachers, especially at the elementary level, are really thinking about ways in which they position their science curriculum in in the in in positionality to their to English language arts and and reading and math, that there's intersections here to open this up to all of our students. Because if we do and we open the door, this is about creativity, like we said earlier. It's about leadership skills that we're teaching our young ladies, and and and young ladies are gonna take that baton and they're gonna run with it. They're gonna become leaders in this field. And so I guess is that maybe what we're afraid of in society? Is that kind of what you're doing? I was gonna take a battery spicy. Are you Steven? Are you are you afraid of our young girls growing up to be leaders? I'm not afraid. I have a dog. I know, right? You guys are definitely not afraid. So I get that's like the question we're at. Like, let's stop trying to fix girls and start saying, like, we're trying to create spaces where girls have opportunities to grow into leaders. And if we feel that women and girls can lead in society, well, then you better back that train up and we start that practice in kindergarten, in first grade, by making sure that opportunities that they have the opportunities to feel like they belong in order to grow and develop into the leaders we know that they can be. And STEM is a pathway to leadership. That's what it is. Leading in this world, this current world that we live in.

SPEAKER_03 31:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:39

That's my hot take.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

I don't want to go after Jay or Katie. Not now, I'm done. Let's go. Yeah, Stephen's got no hot take. Well, well, I actually want to package the two of those that uh that you you all mentioned. And before on the podcast, teaching tomorrow, um, I have mentioned that I really think we need to think about making education for young people an experience rich sort of curricular rather than for example, like just purely like a text or activity focused thing. I think sometimes we think too much about like you're on the computer doing this or on the textbooks reading and doing that. And of course, I'm an English teacher, so I love to read. But I think about well, what are the experiences like going out into the real world, seeing a thing, touching the thing, smelling it, what what it what all of this taking all the data with all of our senses. You know, if I'm a young person, do I remember lesson 1.3 on Tuesday, March, da-da-da-da-da. No, no, I'm probably not, but I am gonna remember that really cool field trip or that experience or that experiment that I took that just lit up fire in me. So I think um, in order to uh raise the stakes of having girls in STEM, we really need to think about what are the experiences that every single girl, not just the girls that happen to show up for the after-school clubs, because there's an equity issue with there too, but really thinking about all the girls and eliminating those barriers to increase the experiences that they have in STEM. So going to a plant or a factory or a place of business, seeing people like she needed when she was in the private sector, right? Her doing her thing. Like we need people to see that because it's uh because you don't know what you don't know. Um, so that exposure through experiences. But then, Jay, to your point, um, and now that's got me thinking, well, what are we exposing them to? Right? Are we exposing them to a male-centric and a male-dominated uh culture? And they and we do give them an experience, they're like, Well, I don't really want to do that. So we also simultaneously have got to reinvent or re-reposition those spaces so that when we do expose our girls to those opportunities, that they see that, oh yeah, this is for me and this is where I belong because I already am there. And so by the time they get older, we've built a sense of normalcy in them. Like, yeah, I'm going to go to school for coding or to get a PhD in computer engineering, or I'm going to become a mathematics education consultant at a regional education service agency. Whatever. Whatever that happens to be. So, so making that experience rich educational environment, but then also reframing what those experiences are so that they are decentralized from a male-dominant culture.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Yeah. Well, and I think too, like if you ask people who say, like, I'm not a math person, they're describing experiences mostly in school, in which they felt like barriers were put up or their experience was so off-putting or negating to seeing themselves as being able to move beyond that gate that they feel like was put up. And so I think what you're saying is you're saying like those experiences might exist, unfortunately, still in schools for boys and girls. And so, how do we also create these other experiences that such that when you feel like you're in a space where a wall or a barrier has come up, you've got these other ones to fall back on to say that like this might what be what math feels like now, but it isn't what math is. It isn't what science is. And I've been able to see that and dream it and be that because of the experiences that have been provided.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Well, we give the last word to our esteemed and and and honored guest.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

Miss Cena Director.

unknown 35:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:43

Bring it home. Bring it home. Bring it home.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

Honestly, I mean, you you all have had some great ideas. I'm just, my mind's been turning as you've been speaking, but just thinking of kind of tying all those things together, what especially stuck out to me is about the experiences. We want to make sure that they come out of school with positive experiences to remember to move forward, right? So putting them in spaces where they do feel included and they're getting those good experiences, one main thing is through mentorship, right? So we've had girls working with like the Society of Women Engineers. We've had a bunch of women engineers come over from Ford, or they go over to Rocket Mortgage, and they get to work with people. So putting them with engineers, with women engineers that they can see in their element doing these things, it helps them to see, oh, you know, she's doing it. She kind of looks like me. Maybe I can do that one day. So making sure that they have these positive experiences that stick in their mind that continues to help them to build their confidence and be able to move forward. Just even thinking about I have a cousin who's an engineer. She's been an engineer for 30 years. Her daughter's now in her second year of college, but she's been taking engineering classes since she was in kindergarten. So she's never been afraid. She's never known anything else. For her, it's just, oh, this is fun. And I think that's the big thing. Fun. Make sure they understand how fun it is.

SPEAKER_03 37:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love all of what you said. I'm with the fun agenda.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

Well, speaking of fun, Jay, you're gonna tell us about the the fun of this podcast and why people should like, share, and follow it, right?

SPEAKER_04 37:18

Yeah, I mean, this has been uh really uh a really great conversation. A huge thank you to our esteemed guests. Thank you. Uh thank you so much for uh coming on and uh thank you to all of the listeners. Uh you guys keep uh hitting that like button, you keep accessing us, our numbers are going up so much so much so that we are gonna keep this thing going. We're just gonna keep going with another episode. Uh that episode is going to be an exciting episode. A very exciting episode. A very exciting episode. Uh, I will fully admit, I don't have the PowerPoint up in front of me that actually says what our next episode is. Uh so we will do a better job. We will all be surprised. Uh so as we uh plan this next great reveal for our next episode, please don't forget to follow or subscribe to Teaching Tomorrow wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a rating or comment. It helps other educators find these conversations. And if you liked what you heard, uh share this episode with a colleague uh so they can uh also like what they hear. Until next time, uh keep teaching, keep learning, and keep building the tomorrow your students can believe in because here at Teaching Tomorrow, we believe in you.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

We believe in you.

SPEAKER_04 38:33

And a shout out to all of our young ladies in the elementary schools learning.

SPEAKER_03 38:39

We're ones that are out there that will do it.

SPEAKER_04 38:42

Yeah. All right, we'll see you next time on Teaching Tomorrow. Have a great evening, morning, afternoon.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

All of the above.

SPEAKER_04 38:50

All of the above. See ya. Bye bye.