Feel Worthy Podcast

29: Redefining Anti-Hustle Culture in Events | Keke Moore

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Keke Moore, Rolling With Keke, joins Kayla Worthy and shares her journey of embracing self-worth, setting boundaries, and rejecting hustle culture to prioritize health and authenticity. We explore practical strategies for leaders and event professionals to create sustainable, impactful work environments.

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SPEAKER_01

Hi guys, welcome back to the Feelworthy Podcast. We have an incredible guest for you, Kiki Moore. You will see her as Rolling with Kiki Online. She is an event operation strategist known for stabilizing complex events where logistics, visibility, and the leadership pressure collide. Through Rolling with Kiki, she helps organizations design environments that function in real conditions by establishing governance pathways, embedding accessibility upstream, and reinforcing operational structure before pressure escalates. Drawing on lived experience, her work centers logistical realism, human-centered design, and systems that hold once events move from planning documents into live environments. She is incredible. We had such a vulnerable, open conversation about everything that it means to really have capacity. What does that mean these days? What does it look like to share the workload, feel worthy in a space and time where there's so much competing for our attention? We dive deep and we go kind of all over the place, but in the best way possible. It was such an invigorating and amazing conversation with Kiki. I'm so excited to have her on the pod and even have more conversations with her in the future. We're also moving close to each other. So I'm looking forward to in-person events and meetings with her. You'll hear more about it on the episode, and I'll stop giving all the spoilers away. Let's dive in and enjoy. I know there's been a long time coming. I'm so excited to have this conversation as we were just talking about before we press record. So welcome. How are you doing? How are you feeling today? Life is lifing.

SPEAKER_02

Life is definitely lifing. Um, but I'm just rolling with the punches. I have a day off um tomorrow. So I'm going to enjoy that to the fullest. So I'm here, I'm present. I'm so thankful and grateful to be a part of what you are doing. I love your podcast. So yeah, ready to rock and roll.

SPEAKER_01

It means the world to me. And you know what? I since you brought it up, how are you going to spend a day off? I know that's always hard for event pros to do and like really, like, really be off and take it off. So, how do you plan on spending your day off if you have any plans?

SPEAKER_02

Um, I don't have any plans because I think my son has to go to work. Um, he's 21 and he still lives at home with me. So I tell people, you know, I have bills and a baby with a beard. He hates when I say that. Probably just going to bed rot. Like um, I got caught up on the rookie, so I'm caught up on that. So I may go catch up on like um criminal minds evolution. Um, because I don't like to fall asleep watching shows that I really like because oh shit, now I gotta go back and what episode was I on? So I like I know tomorrow, like once I'm up and do prayer and all this stuff like that, I'll be up for at least a little while. So I'll probably you know catch up on some shows. Probably gonna TikTok because I have a new obsession um watching people do the mystery scoop boxes. It is like the wildest thing to me. And I'm like, people really pay for this, and I'm trying to convince myself not to buy one, but it's like they take scoop up, you know, a bunch of beads. It's like, oh, you get four water bottles, and you get five of these. I'm like, I don't really need four water bottles, but it's fun to watch them pack it. So um, and eating, you know, I'm from the south. We, you know, I'm not cooking. I'm not cooking, but there will be a lot of snacking going on in between my naps tomorrow. So it's just you know, just uh mental, physical, only move when I have to type day. And I feel like we just don't do enough of that because again, you know, we're just so ingrained and wired, particularly in advance. And I don't know if it's necessarily even just you gotta go, gotta go, you know, ripping the run and ripping it like I want to rip or run, so I'm just gonna stop. So that's the plan that is the plan. Because yeah, we just we don't take enough time for ourselves and we talk about self-care and you know different things like that, but it is like it sounds good and it looks good when we do it in events and things like that. But do we really do it for ourselves? I feel like we're more apt to help other people with their self-care than we are to turn it inward, so yeah. That's not gonna be tomorrow. Nothing.

SPEAKER_01

I'm so glad to hear that because and honestly, everything you have scheduled planned or like ideas around it, it sounds perfect because we don't do it enough. And just being in the summer months, I've been talking to friends and colleagues of like it doesn't even like what is summer anymore. It doesn't feel like there's a break or there's a fun time at the pool. I mean, we maybe do like spurts of it, but having a full break is non-existent as an adult sometimes, unless you bake it in, unless you build it in. So I'm excited for your days. I have to catch up on the rookie. I haven't seen it yet, but I've been seeing um teasers about it.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god, that is all I'm going to say. I'm not going to spoil it for you, but season eight was my god, yeah. You need to build in some time somewhere to yes, yes, I highly recommend 10 out of 10.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so we've dove in and we're talking about so many things, and I love all of it. I also want for those of you, for those people who don't follow your Substack, your Instagram, all of your social media, your LinkedIn, your newsletter, and everything else in between, tell the people who you are and what you do a little bit more about yourself.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I just dove in and just started talking. So hi everyone. Um, I am Keisha Kihimoore. Um, I am an African-American female who has a bigger body. I have a bob haircut today and a multicolored dress on. Um, I always like to visually describe myself for my people who may be looking at this and have vision impairment. And I'm all about accessibility. Um, I am all about accessibility. I am the founder and chief event strategist of Rolling with Kiki. The name came about because I get around on a mobility scooter and it kind of just stuck. Um, all of that fancy title is just to say I help things not to break in events. What I do. I am the Olivia Pope of events. It's handled. You only have to tell me one time. Um, but like my heart is really with making sure that all of our events are accessible and accessibility starts at the beginning. It cannot be an add-on. I am based out of Raleigh, North Carolina. You can find me um at rollingwithkiki.com. You can email me at hello at rollingwithkiki.com. And you can also find me on LinkedIn at lakeisha more-events or something like that. You'll you'll know me when you see me, trust me.

SPEAKER_01

And we will link all of the ways to find you in the description in the show notes. So, like they'll all have that too. So if any if you haven't started following her, please do. Um, it's brilliant work that you're putting out there. And I love that you've you have such a passion about accessibility and really making it at the forefront instead of such an afterthought. But I like to ask all guests this question when we first kick off the podcast is what does feeling worthy mean to you in this season of life?

SPEAKER_02

Gosh, um in this season of life, feeling worthy means um I've stopped second guessing myself. You know, so much of my life. Um, being a you know, darker skinned, bigger bodied black woman, always listen to all the noise and all the things that people told me. Oh, you can't do this and you can't go to the prom and you know, we don't have any dresses that fit you and just all of the things. That kind of chips away at you for a while. But, you know, in this last, probably actually ironically, since I've been disabled, I'm like, you know what? Screw all of this. I am not who y'all say that I am. I am Kiki, I am that girl. Um, I am worthy of, you know, love, affection, good health, wealth, all of the things. So it's really just, you know, feeling worthy is taking all the external noise and turning it off. Like I did not have imposter syndrome. I am exactly who I think I am. And it took me, you know, I'll be 50 in October. So I'm not gonna act like, oh, yes, I got it. No, mm-mm. Not even gonna lie to y'all. It did not, you it did not happen overnight, but it just happened like me, you know, being hospitalized with blood clots in my lungs. Life is too doggone short. And every oh, you should do this and you should do that. And have you thought about doing this and have you thought about doing that? You know, and it's not that I don't value people's opinions, but it was like, I know rolling and kiki is what I'm meant to do. I know me being a thorn in the best industry side about accessibility is what I'm supposed to be doing. I don't shy away from it, I don't back away from it. Y'all gonna hit this mouth of the south. Um, and yeah, that's what feeling worthy is, is just really standing firmly or sitting sometimes because you know disabilities firmly in who Keisha is, not what they say, and it's not what my mama says and my son and different things. It's really this is who Keisha is. I'm loud, I'm boisterous, I have an extremely dark sense of humor, but I'm also caring, I'm compassionate, I'm empathetic. Um, I know what it feels like to roll into a room and have people look at you like you don't belong, or you know, some of the dirty looks. So that's why I did what I did because y'all are not gonna do that at an event that I plan ever. So that's what feeling worthy is for me in this season.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much for sharing that. Not that I can guessing yourself, that's something I'm sure everyone has dealt with at some point in their life because it's it's hard not to, right? There's so much noise, there's so much opinions, especially in the time where social media is everywhere and everyone is feels at liberty to have an opinion about absolutely every single thing. Um, and an event where people just attend and they just also have opinions where they either did on or they think a certain aspect of the event should go a certain way. It's so hard to turn all of that off, to stand or sit, as you said, in that and just being so confident and saying, like, this is who I am and this is what I want to do. I think, gosh, it's the kind of confidence boost everyone needs at this point to keep going. I can keep gushing on and on about that response because I think it's it's amazing and we all need that, and more and more, just to keep going after the things that we want to do. So it's great that you're really leaning into it and you know what, making making your name everywhere because you know what? Also, thorns inside, it's kind of where things start, right? It becomes annoying until it becomes normal. And then everyone's like, Oh yeah, we've been doing this all along. And then you but they forget about how hard it was in the beginning, unless they were the ones doing it. So I almost hate that it's a thorn in people size or the event industry size because it should be the norm, it shouldn't be an afterthought. And I know it's like the last thing people think about, or they deal with it when it becomes an issue instead of just mapping it out as a plan from the very beginning. So again, I will get off my soapbox about this, but I'm I'll saw it over in my groom.

SPEAKER_02

I have a queen size soapbox, so we can stand up here together. I love it, I love it.

SPEAKER_01

I love all the work that you've been doing, and I love this question because it it brings out all of these incredible responses and really has people kind of challenge and think about what it means to them. Um, and taking that pause, which we were talking about before we started. Yeah. Pressing play. Um, but in conversations leading up to this, you talked about being anti-hustle culture, and there's been quite a bit of noise about that and talking about social media and people saying like they're done with that, and then they're soft girl summer. When you say you're anti-hustle culture, what does that mean?

SPEAKER_02

For me, that means again, it's canceling out the noise. I mean, you know, I'm on LinkedIn almost every day. I'm on threads, I'm on TikTok, I'm on Facebook, you know, all of the all of the things that are out there, and you're constantly saying, hey, you know, get up at four o'clock and do an ice face bath and then go run 30 miles and you know, drink mushroom coffee. And I'm like, it ain't eight o'clock yet. Like, that's a lot to be sitting on one person, and that is no shade to those people who can, but I really truly honestly kind of think my anti-hustle came from when I was slowed down. I didn't slow myself down, my health slowed me down. Um, yeah, laying in the hospital bed for about two and a half weeks would do that for you. I couldn't do anything. You know, I was on oxygen, I was on what I refer to as a Robocop bed because I was a fall wrist. So every time I literally would get up and act like I was getting off the bed and say, please wait. I'm like, what in the So, you know, it was like I had no choice but to slow down, and it made me start to think about how I live my life in terms of, you know, because really it was the events that were driving my life, and it wasn't my life. So it was always gotta hustle, gotta hustle this next contract, this next, you know, BEO, this next RFP, and it was always what the next, the next, the next, the next, the next. And I'm a single mom. But it was always, it was one thing, and then you know, there was family stuff and there was church stuff, and then it just got to the point where I just couldn't anymore. And I'm like, so the world didn't stop turning, the earth didn't open up and swallow me up because I stopped. So that means that I can't actually live my life not on that hamster wheel. I can still be just as effective. I don't have to be, I'm not a girl boss, I am a woman CEO. Um, so I don't have to buy into all of the things because again, social media, like you said, it's so much noise. Like I promise you, when I first started this journey, I was changing my LinkedIn strategy like every other day, sometimes twice a day, because I saw somebody, oh, you're supposed to do this, and then oh, this person is saying you're supposed to do that, and then oh, well, Keisha, you're doing it again. You are doing it again. It's like, you know what? You have to do what what works for Rolling with Kiki, not what works for feel worthy, because what works for feel worthy works for feel worthy. That may not work for rolling with Kiki. And then I'm not saying that I don't take advice, you know, as I shared before we hit record. Yes, you know, I have trusted people. I have my sisters, who's this wonderful group of women that I met. We have never met in person, but they're my sisters. So we run things by each other, you know. I have you now tag your head. Um so that you know, there's another thing. But as far as that, you know, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Like, I physically can't anymore. That does not mean I'm not still good at what I do. Let's not get that twisted. But physically, I can't go at the same pace. So that's kind of what started me getting out of, you don't have to hustle to be effective. Like, I had to keep repeating it to myself. You don't have to hustle to be effective. Yes, event days, yes, I'm on, but I've already mentally and physically prepared for those. But like leading up, like I ramp up and I ramp down. If you don't have it to me by like that, those last three weeks before the event, it's a wish at this point. It is a wish because we are ramping down, we're double checking the little things that need to be done, and we're taking care of ourselves because we work 15, 16 hours a day when we're on site, you're not getting ready to stress me out before I even get it get to the airport. No, no, because I have a saying, this is how much anti-hustle culture I am. I promise you, I'm landing the plane. Um, if I've been up since five o'clock, there is nothing you need for me after 9 p.m. Your only options then are to call Jesus and 911. That's it. That's all I got. We'll see you in the morning. Okay, okay. It is really about boundaries because we're we're trained to go, go, go. Like it's been ingrained in us. And then, you know, unfortunately, you know, in the black community, we're you that's our women, you know, you gotta be doing this and you gotta be doing that. If you're not doing this, you're lazy. So it's just really just reframing all of the stuff that we have been taught as women. This is how we get ahead. It's not not Keisha. I'm not gonna speak for anybody else. I'm not gonna tell anybody else not to do it. Keisha is anti-hustle culture to her core. I had a friend, she was oh, so excited. Hey, you start your new business, you're gonna have to hustle. Mm-mm. I rebuke that in the name of Jesus. No, I'm not. Am I gonna have to work hard? Yes, I know this. I've never been afraid of hard work, but the the constant grind, because you have to think about it. When you're grinding something, you're cutting it into pieces, you're shredding it, you're tearing it up. I love Keisha. Why wanna tear me up? Hello, I'm gonna say that's a whole clip.

SPEAKER_01

That's a whole clip. Um, and with my expression, with my hands, my face, and my and all. No, you're absolutely right. And you know what? I've never thought of it or heard of it in that perspective before. When you're grinding it up, you're tearing it apart, you're making it into smaller pieces. The grind is not something that physically, one, we should be doing because that's just tearing up our bodies, which is what we have been doing for so long. And which is half of why I've started this whole Feel Worthy podcast, because we don't tear up, we don't grind the event, right? We're constantly making it so much better. But for ourselves, the people that are putting it on, the ones that are being the magicians behind the scenes, we're okay to do that to ourselves. And I that's where I want the perspective to change of why, like, why to us are we okay with that? But for everyone else and giving in to everyone else, we're happy to do 110%. And in talking about your health, and honestly, I've honestly just been having my own experiences with that over the last several years, where I'm so good at stress management, I have all these tools, but what I learned, and I'll share this vulnerability moment on the podcast too, is I have been having significant hair loss over like the last two to three years. And as I've been talking to like dermatologists and other doctors, it has been because of stress, because the hair follicles will say, Oh, you're stressed. We don't need to worry about this part of your body, we need to worry about other parts of your body and make sure that you don't go into like an organ failures are very far away part of where it would go. But we need to focus on other things to keep you alive. And I'm starting to take neutrophil, not a bad for the podcast, just um something that I'm starting to see if it works and helps me with that because part of the supplement is that you get consultations and with doctors so that they can continue helping you and figure out like what the best course of action is. And she explicitly said that to me this morning, and I was like, huh. So I'm not in my head, the stress is turning into other things that I don't want in my life, so now it's time to take back my health and start to take back, and even though it's hair, right? People could say it doesn't matter, but as a minority woman, it matters a hell of a lot to me, and I I need it I need to take ownership of that. So I totally agree with you about being anti-Heusler culture and really putting our life first. So I'm again a whole precedent of why we're talking about this on the podcast and also capacity. I think the word capacity has come up a lot for me over the last year or two, and I didn't really understand it as it applied to like humans or myself. But when you hear the word capacity, and when we've talked about that, like what is that, what comes up for you when we talk about capacity?

SPEAKER_02

With the capacity, I think about a rubber band. Now we can stretch it, it can stretch and it can stretch and it can stretch, but at a certain point, and I'm not gonna do it because I won't put my eye out. Well, at a certain point, when it gets stretched beyond the limit, what happens? It's gonna break. That is capacity. Same thing with this water bottle, this only holds 16.9 fluid ounces. If I try to take this to 17, what's gonna happen? 18, 19, 20, you're gonna have a mess. So that's how I think about capacity now. And again, I'm not even gonna sit up here and lie to people and say, as soon as I walked out of Duke Hospital that the heavens open up, and I'm like, ha! Like this, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This took uh me recognizing that took about four trips to the emergency room because I thought I was having a stroke, and they looked at me every single time. Blood pressure was fine, CT scans were clear, they did the facial thing to make sure I hadn't had a stroke, and then every time you're stressed Miss More. So I'm not dying eventually, but not right now. You are stressed, you know, heart palpitations, startle responses, and you know, and unfortunately, some of that came from the work that I was doing, um, being in a very toxic environment. So I was getting pulled out of proportion, I was getting overfilled. Um and I'll share a bone a vulnerable moment with you. You know, I'm a recovering alcoholic. Um, as a matter of fact, tomorrow makes 12 years that I have been sober. I tell people, I know I have another relapse in me. I don't know if I have another recovery. So yeah, I probably have another health scare in me. I don't know if I have another recovery in me because I felt like hell to come back. So all of it's not for Keisha anymore. And that's not to say that I don't care about the work that I'm doing because it's deeply personal. Um, we're in hospitality. I'm from the South. What else would I be doing? But you know, I'm not gonna continue to set myself on fire to keep other people warm. I'm just not gonna do it. So that's what capacity is for me.

SPEAKER_01

Just dropping the one-liners all in the first 20 minutes. I think with boundaries and setting that tone and precedent, it could feel like it's a hard line in the sand or it's a negative thing, but I don't think it has to be. I think it's just that conversation, that explanation of guidelines for it, right? Like, how do you wanna work? How do I wanna work? How do we work on this together? And it should be collaborative. It shouldn't be that. We just continue taking on more backpacks as we're climbing up the hill and just like letting everyone just roam free. Um, we should be able to all share the workload and share the balance there, which I would I know it's easier said than done. But with that, and even all of the acknowledges that you said, which I feel like if everyone could always look at themselves as a water bottle filling up too much, we would all stop doing some of the things that we're doing. But why do we treat capacity like a weakness?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, a lot of it I go back to television, I go back to social media. Um, you know, I joke that I'm the Olivia Pope of events, but you know, it's always, you know, it's faster, harder, more, more, more, more, more. And then we're in such a microwave society. So we only have time for the chicken to cook. So I'm gonna go in there and put this processed chicken in for two minutes, where it used to take it 20 to cook. So it's just the the more, more, more. But then we're also expected to do more with the less. That's less time, that's less attention, that's less, you know, taking care of ourselves. I think it's just because, you know, there's a race to the top that I didn't sign up to be a part of, but still, because I'm in, you know, I'm in society because I am part of the workforce. It's always, oh, well, this person did it in 20 minutes. Let's see if you can do it in 15. Probably can't. It might take me longer than the 20. But it's just, it's, oh, you know, I don't have the capacity. That means you're weak. Who said? Who told you that? So we come up with all these colloquialisms and all these little catchy things, you know, about you know, rising grind and all those things like that. And it's like, it's cute to say, but when we really focus on me saying I am at capacity is not a weakness, it's actually a strength. Because let me tell you what happens when Keisha's over capacity. Keisha's sniffy, she is very short, all of this cutesy smile. I don't want to be bothered, and that's not who I am at my core. So to prevent that and to keep me from biting your head off, and you just say good morning, you don't need me after 9 p.m. if I've been up since 4 a.m. If you there's nothing that if you haven't asked me that between 7 a.m. and 9 p.m., you don't really need it. And that's my capacity. Because then the flip side of it is, oh my god, Keisha had a nervous breakdown. We didn't know that she was stressed. Yes, because you made the environment right for me not to be able to say, hey, I need a moment. Hey, I'm I'm gonna roll over here. No, don't follow me. Let me just roll over here and have these five minutes to myself to gather myself. So it's like we're expected to always be on. I am not television, I don't need to be on 24-7. I don't know who made that up, but it's just it's just the society because I think back to even you know in my teens, you know, I'm a I'm a 70s baby, you know, growing up in the 80s, had the best time in the 90s of the 90s were heaven, but still it wasn't the fast pace that it is now. Like I'd leave my house, grew up in a small town, walk around the city all day. My mama never knew where I was. There was no tracking, but it was just things just moved. They move slower. And if you see that as a weakness, maybe you need to look at your capacity. Maybe that's why that vein in your neck is always popping out. Maybe that's why you always have the constant headaches. Maybe that's why every time the doorbell rings, you jump because your startle response is on 10,000. I've lived that life. I have the t-shirt, the coffee mug, and the backpack. I'm good. So, whatever society has to say about capacity and boundaries, I don't even care anymore because I got one life to live. I have a child, I have family members who love me and want to see me here for as long as God sees fit. So there's a part I have to play in that, and it's not getting up at four o'clock in the morning doing ice baths and drinking mushroom coffee because somebody on LinkedIn or TikTok or Instagram or Pinterest said so.

SPEAKER_01

No, thank you. So many ways I want to go with that. I love the Olivia Pope analogy because that show was life-changing for me. And she also did have a mental breakdown toward the end of the seasons. Sorry if you haven't seen it at this point, and I'm giving a spoiler, then you are waiting. All over TikTok is fine. Way behind. Sorry, I was like, for anyone who has never seen the show, I'm so sorry, but also catch up. Um, but it's it's a real, it just really what happens to everyone in varying degrees. So it is important that we take a pause and we set those boundaries. And you speak about it so confidently, and I love that. What are practical ways that people can start setting those boundaries and those guidelines for how to work with one another, especially when events can be so fast moving and say, oh, we need this, I don't know, gala dinner all of a sudden, instead of just a reception. Like when we get into those moments where our executives, our clients are asking us to do things kind of on a drop of a dime, what are ways that we can either start setting those boundaries at the then or even ahead of time to set us up for success?

SPEAKER_02

Um, I am a fan of ahead of time. Um, with the last event that I did when I was in corporate, it was the expectation was set. After this date, we're not changing anything. But I also wasn't, I let them know I wasn't doing it just because I was on a power trip, because I mean now I'm that girl. Um, but it was like this is what happens the closer we get to this date, the more money it's going to cost. Not just with the hotel, with the A B, like anything we add at this point, it's going to cost more money. Do you want to break the budget? No, then this is your deadline. That went for printing, that went for food and beverage changes, anything. And then also don't tell your stakeholders when stuff is really due. Don't do that. If you're doing it, stop it right now. That's the only thing I'm gonna tell y'all, stop it right now. I always built in a week before the hotel needed the information, and I'm sure all the event planners know this, but if you're new to the game, don't do it. Because I knew they were gonna wait. If I told them it was gonna be Friday, July the 9th, they were gonna get it to me at 5 p.m. on July the 8th. So start building in. And yes, Keisha, oh Keisha, that sounds like manipulation. No, it's setting boundaries. It is setting boundaries. Talk to your people at the beginning. Always have a beginning haul. We talk about it throughout. We don't have meetings for the sake of meetings. That's another time killer. Just meeting for the sake of some of this stuff could be an email, some of this stuff they can look into your project management plan. Keisha wet, mm-mm, did you check Asana? No? Here's the link to Asana. Because at the end of the day, we truly have to teach people how to treat us if it's your CEO, if it's your boss. And I'm not saying go out there and be belligerent or anything like that, but at the end of the day, we're humans behind these computers. We are humans behind the project plans, the A B, the events that we, you know, the fireworks and all those things like that. They're real people. The bots have not taken over yet. So set those expectations. Yes. Mr. CEO is gonna come at the last minute. Hey, can we have somebody riding through the ballroom on the unicorn? Uh yeah, sure, but it's gonna be about $50,000. Then we got to deal with all these laws that come with having live animals on scene, all of this, that, and the third. You sure you want to do this? Now I can make it happen, but you know, you for five minutes for $100,000? So it's really like stepping into your power. We have to speak up. We are event professionals, so we know what we are doing. We have just been relegated to be order takers, and ain't nothing wrong with taking orders. But a lot of us have grown beyond that. So it's coming in from jump, this is how this event is going to run. You have questions, yes, absolutely. I'm not inflexible. I can talk about it, things happen, but it's really the boundaries. It comes down to boundaries and expectation settings, whether you're working on your own, if you're working for, you know, within the organization, whatever you're doing, set those expectations because a closed mouth don't get fed. So if there's something that you need, let it be known. It's the the the the empathy, the the the willingness to be able to stand up. And I've been there where I've sat and suffered in silence. I can't do that anymore. So set those boundaries, set those expectations early. Now, some people still gonna try to try you absolutely, but at least you know uh I told you like we're not I'm not available at the nine, I'm not available before this time. And then I don't have to, you know, I don't necessarily have to explain my why. These are my boundaries. Like if Caleb you say, hey, Keisha, I want to do podcasts on this day at this time, I can either like it and be like, cool, can I book a slot? Or hey, you know what, they don't work for me. But though because those are your boundaries, those are your expectations that you said to work with you. So yeah. Hope that answered your question.

SPEAKER_01

I felt like I rambled on whole You dropped again a lot of great nuggets in there too, because I'm a big fan of setting the project timeline in a way that honestly there's buffer because it was something I learned early in my career where I was like, oh, here's a date, and I'm so honest. And and then it comes to bite me. I'm sorry, as you're taking a sip of water. And I was like, I just thought that's what you do, right? You have to set a timeline, everyone follows it, and then I was like, Oh, never mind. There's a real there's a timeline, and there's a real timeline that we have to set because people will then say, Oh, wait, can I just have one more day or two more days? And uh things happen, right? I think that it happens all the time, but then you have to be able to know where you have time or when you don't, and being able to share that and and know who you can share that with. So I I you called it the first one of the first things I love to do too, because it's it's helpful for everyone involved. And then they started to get to know me and they're like, is that the real day, Kayla? And I was like, I don't know, we'll never know because I because I know how this works. So I'm uh anyway, there's always flexible, there's usually flexibility in things, but I think it if you can build in the buffer, that always helps to just keep everyone at least aware of what's coming next. Um and cognizant of it, hopefully. So no, you did you shared so much. I was just like, I I I always want to keep adding on to it. And I'm like that and that and that and that one. And another one, and another one. No, it's great, it's great. Um, I I think that really helps in setting it from the beginning. And I think when and I don't know where this kind of perspective came that event planners just have to be the order takers when we actually have so much expertise and we can set the tone. Do you have any recommendations about how to go into those meetings? I think sometimes we wait to be asked instead of maybe coming in with our own ideas. Any thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_02

Um, I'm just bold with it. Um I am. Especially in the last couple of years, it's like, you know, I make it, you know, because obviously there's a hierarchy, but I make it known to my leader, um, you know, like Shaywa, I need to be in those leadership team meetings when y'all are talking about this event or whomever. I need to be on that leadership call when you're talking about this event. Not to be nosy, because trust me, I've been on, and I'm like, this is what y'all talk about. Okay, but like I may hear something where they're like, oh, yeah, and such and such is coming to dinner that down. Um, and yeah, we told so-and-so that he can speak at the reception. Okay, we don't need microphones, so it's just, you know, I may not have anything to add per se, but I'm there if stuff starts going off the rail.

SPEAKER_01

I I love that because I learned along the way I love observing. And it may not be that I always have to say something. And I know some people have different rules about meetings, but just having, especially the because if the expertise is knowing if this happens, XYZ also happens, then just being a fly on the wall allows me to then be able to jot the notes down, like you're saying, oh, I'm going to need a microphone here, or this is newly planned. And I think that started to be like a secret superpower that our leadership team started to recognize, like, oh no, bring Kayla in because she'll start thinking of the things that like we're not going to be able to think of or not know to think of, right? Like, not everyone has the event expertise. So it's okay to show up like the expert that you are, because not everyone has that. There are some like intangible things that come up when you all just have that expert in the room, even if they're not always contributing vocally, which I think could be misleading for people sometimes. Like, oh, they always need to be saying something to be present.

SPEAKER_02

Right. And sometimes, again, it's just listening. Um, or there are times when you know you need to speak up like you you want to add another bar. Well, you know, that's gonna be um $245 an hour, two hour minimum for the bartender, plus the liquor is this much and this, you know, that much, you know, something like, oh, never mind, cool. And you know, and that may be the only thing I say, um, or it could be just you know, a listen only where I'm jotting down, okay, Bob White is coming at this time. Okay, so I need to let uh the people at the front desk know, and such and such is coming at this time. But I rather, and I always tell people, you know, this is not to say that you will not accurately give me the information. I just have a thing about I don't like working from secondhand information. Not saying that they would deliberately try to sabotage me or different things like that, but like you said, we have the expertise. So somebody said may say blue cat, and if you're not in the advanced world, you know, oh, they're talking about a blue cat. For us, it could be like, oh, that okay, let me, I gotta get on the phone with A B like it me.

SPEAKER_01

Is it navy blue?

SPEAKER_02

Is it I mean, are we doing cat TV? Like, what are we doing? So, you know, it may mean something, you know, entirely different to us. And we're just sitting there smiling and nothing be like, okay, yeah, so we definitely gotta bring in A B producer, like, because he needs they said blue cat. So it's things like that, and it's really, you know, it's not, I don't want to say it's proving your worth, but it's owning who you are in events, and it's you know, sometimes you may have to make the case for it. Some people don't understand why Kayla or why Keisha or why whomever needs to be in this where if you're talking about an event that ultimately, because we ought to ultimately whether it goes good, if it goes good, yay, team, if it goes bad, Keisha, what you doing? So we know that's not that's how it goes. So if it's like if this is gonna be on my shoulders, there are certain meetings I need to be in. No, I'm not sitting through all your leadership team meetings. But if the AU meeting or whatever meeting is on the docket, yes, then I need to sit and I'll come in, I'll sit out, I won't touch nothing, I promise. But I just need to, you know, I need to have those listening ears. And then it may take a while. I'm not even gonna say they're gonna be like, oh my God, yes, we're so glad you came to this meeting. I don't lie to people online or in person. So it may take a minute, but you know, as you go through year over year, you start, you know, bringing these suggestions, maybe you send in an email after you did get the secondhand information. Hey, leadership team, here's A B and C and heard you talking about this, that, and the third. They'll start seeing like, oh yeah, she, you know, she knows what they're talking about what she's talking about, they know what they're talking about. So it's it's a little bit of proving your value, but it's also knowing who you are in advance. So we all have our strong, you know, we all have our strong suits when it comes to stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah. Also, the exposure is another form of education, right? Like it's not like you said that we are distrusting of getting the information from another person or like through a telephone, but the exposure is education to the stakeholders in the room, how they operate, what they what they think is important, what new ideas come up that may be forgotten, right? Because although everyone, not everyone always, but has the AI notes or people can take manual notes, like some things are just forgotten. So it just helps to get that constant exposure and education. And also speaking up about it, I think you brought up a really good point of telling your manager, your client, whoever, like bring me into those meetings and just having the forethought and the knowledge to suggest that to say, hey, I can offer this value by being in there and pick up on things that will save us time, like this many hours down the road. I think just starts to put that strategic language so that we're at the table instead of just begging to be at the table or hoping to be at the table, like we can have more influence than we think. And I love that you said that you're bold, but have you always been this way? Have you like from the start of your career, you were like, I'm gonna be in those meetings? Get me in that room now.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely not. Um, it really took, you know, having different, a different type of leader that showed me that it was okay. Um, and again, Dr. Shale Kennedy, if you're listening, I love you forever and a day, because she showed me that it was okay. She's like, Keisha, I don't know how to do this. This is your lane. Get in there and tell them, Yes, ma'am. Like, so that I didn't go sit up here and like, you know, I just came out of the womb. Like I obviously I've always been bold, but you know, in the workforce. Um, no, I haven't, you know, because again, you know, preconceived notions, all of the noise, different things like that. And I was easing out of it. And then Shayla came. Um, and even my mom said she was like, Girl, you just done exploded on the scene. I was like, Yep, that's Shayla. That's you know, that's her doing it. I didn't have a choice. She's like, No, you're gonna go kill them.

SPEAKER_01

A good leader changes everything, or a great leader changes everything for your evolution, for your growth. It really makes a difference. So, Dr. Shayla, I want to meet you because let me tell you.

SPEAKER_02

You sound incredible. She is a force to be what wreck and wear at us. And she's like, Look, if nobody ever tells you you was a bad chick, let me be the first one to tell you just today, you her. I'm like, thank you, girl, thank you. So I mean, it just, you know, having you know, having that leadership, and that's why I talk so much about leadership as well. Um, because I've had great leadership, and then I've had please let me off this ship. I don't want uh I got my life jacket on. I was like, where's the lifeboat coming by? Because I don't think people, you know, I don't think they realize the impact, or maybe we're starting to realize more the impact of great leadership versus I won't play no more. Um, and the impact that it has on our psyche, on our self-esteem. Like, you know, before Shane came, like absolutely there was no way I would have stepped up and said, Hey, no, that's not right, or you know, I just allow people to talk to me any type of way because of the fear, like, oh my God, if I say something, I'm gonna get fired, or you know, they're gonna be, you know, they're not gonna like me and different things like that. But then I had to go through a period of aloneness while I was still at that particular place. And I was like, please don't bother me. Please, and that's just really where that boldness and those things, because it's like I don't need them the way I thought I did. They really do need me, and that's not ego or anything like that, but it was like, you know, I was just trying to be happy-go-lucky, and I want to be everybody's friend, and different, but then you know, again, capacity. We're back at capacity because I'm doing this, trying to make everybody like me, and I'm there to do a job. I wasn't there, you know. Um, I I love RuPaul, and I remember one of the queens from way back when it's like, this is like RuPaul's best friends erased. I think it was LaShawn Beyond that said that too. Again, that lets you know how much of a fan I am. So I was like, I just wanted, you know, everybody wanted to be Keisha's best friend. Um, the fact that Shayla and I are friends, bonus, but still, she was just a great manager that, you know, she heard some of the things that had happened, and you know, she's like, okay, we gotta fix this because I see who you are. Who am I, Shayla? And it's just, you know, and that's why I I pour so much into other people too. Um, and I'm not gonna get emotional. I know how it feels when you're told to your face that you are trash, those exact words by my ex-husband who stood up in front of God and everybody and promised to love, cherish all the things. So I just refuse. I refuse to be in places that make me feel like that anymore. I refuse to put on events that has even an inkling of that, and that's for my staff, the attendees, the people at the front desk, they will tell you shout out to the Renaissance Orlando at SeaWorld bomb place to have an event if anybody's in the market. They will tell y'all told those front desk people, hey, if any of my people give y'all any problems, you come find me because we don't do that over here. Um, so when I say I know what it feels like, I've lived it. And I just I refuse. I'm I'm not I'm not doing it anymore. I'm not playing anymore. I done picked packed up all my toys. I'm going home because y'all not getting treated like this. And if that loses me clients, if that loses me the opportunity at a job, y'all want my people to begin with. And it took years to figure out like, why are you and that's what feeling worthy is about. I'm not for everybody. I know that I am not for everybody. I'm not everybody's cup of tea, but I'm somebody's shot of whiskey. You know, I just I'm somebody's shot of espresso. Um and it took so long, but I can't say that. I did it on my own because it was the Shaylas. It was my mama. It was my sisters on LinkedIn. It was people like you coming along to say, Yes, Keisha, you are worthy, whether you believe it or not today. It's my son coming in here when I'm in the middle of a temper tantrum and him being just so even killed. Like, you done? He's just standing there. Okay, so look, this is what we're gonna do. Wait a minute, I'm the parent. So it's all of those things that are, you know, why I can sit up here and say what I am gonna take and what I'm not gonna take. I have a village behind me. Uh I thank God for them every day because they push me and they hold me up when my arms get too tired, when my legs get too tired. Okay, Casey, you go up there, sit down. We got it from here. You know, even when I'm on site, you know, people say, uh, what we need to do. You just sit up there and point.

SPEAKER_00

Excuse me, thank you.

SPEAKER_02

You know, little things like that, um, it just it it helps with the whole, like, this is why I'm worthy, because I love on people. And some, not all, love back on me because it's genuine. Like, if you were to meet me in person, which you are, we get to Raleigh. This you're not getting nothing different than this.

SPEAKER_01

But tears are also okay. I have to verbalize why we're upset. So when you have that team, when you have people that are rooting for you and supporting you and really are able to take on an event like a village, like one would say for a child, the water bottle analogy starts to grow, right? Like you're not only 16 ounces, now the 16 ounces is like spread across other water bottles. So now the water of 20 ounces that you were mentioning earlier is really now spread among five instead of just one. And that's where really I think it's like that secret sauce, a success, where we all start to thrive because we're all taking on part of the load instead of just feeling like it has to be on one person. So just kind of bringing that analogy full circle. I wish I had water bottles. Okay, final question. Um, we talked briefly earlier about the difference between anti-hustle culture or like hustling and working hard. Where is the line between those things? Because sometimes it's looked at as hustling is working really, really hard, right? Like you have to hustle to do the job and get it done. But then working hard also could be seen as complacent or you're not doing enough. So, how do you define the line between like hustling and then just working hard?

SPEAKER_02

I think for me, the the line or the barrier is sometimes hustling can be done just for the sake of doing. You're looking busy, you know. I'm on 50 million podcasts and I'm posting 3,000 times a day on LinkedIn and all different types of social media versus okay, you're probably only gonna be my only podcast for the month because again, capacity. Um, but I've been busy today. Like I said, I had a job interview this morning. I'm talking to my mentee this afternoon, but I also built in space in between the interview, you and my mentee, so I'm not going back to back to back. But then we got my bench out day tomorrow. Hustle don't stop. You've heard the raps, you've heard the raps, you've heard all the people say, hustle don't stop, you know, and all this. I'll sleep when I'm dead. No, I'm finna sleep now because when I'm dead, I'm not gonna need sleep because I'm not here. Like, no, I'm going to sleep. Matter of fact, when I get off the phone with my mid tea, I'm going, the wig is coming off, this dress is coming off, and I'm going to bed. I'm gonna go lay down. Oh, I might not go to sleep, but I'm going to lay down. So I think there's that line between okay, I've done an I've done something today. Because again, hustle is you're trying to fill up all 24 hours. I've had a busy day today. You know, I gotta, you know, I do prayer every morning five days a week from seven to eight. So I have to prepare for that. So I'm usually up by six. Then, you know, I had the interview. Okay, boom. Then um, I'm doing a fireside chat tomorrow with Stephen Hutchins from CBI. So I prepared the runner show and the speaker notes for that. So yes, it's been busy today. Now, somebody who's hustle culture might be like, that's all you did. That is a full day for me, and I don't feel like, okay, let me just add this one more thing. Oh, I can take this one more call. Oh, I can send out this one more resume. Because I think that hustle is just it is a hamster on the wheel. I mean, obviously, you know, we're America, so we're all on the wheel. But like, I'm not trying to outpace or outrace anybody. My race is my own. I think what hustle culture does sometimes is it pits us against each other. Well, Kendall has feel worthy podcasts. I'm finna start a room with Kiki podcast for why. And that's not to, and that's not to say maybe 2027. You know, when things actually have 2026 ones, or maybe a podcast ain't in my that's not my part of the service, but I'm not doing it just because I'm in competition with you. I'm not doing it because oh, it seems like it's oh, okay, so you got the website and you got this and you've done that, and now you're on LinkedIn. Now the next slide you can step is to do a podcast. Mm-mm, not necessarily. Because that maybe does not work for me. And like I said, maybe it's not a 20 maybe 2028 if I decide I'm gonna do it. Because I just started going live on LinkedIn, so I want to add a podcast. Come on, and I'm only doing live once a month because boundaries going live every week. I already post five days a week, so it's like you just you're looking at the next person's paper. So now, hustle, if I had to put it succinctly, something you can use as a soundbite. Hustle is grading your life off based off of somebody else's paper. Hustle is I'm gonna be 50 years old in October. I should be farther along than where I am, according to who. Not what you read in the ladies' uh issue of Mademoiselle or Cosmo. No, I still got a lot more life to live, but I'm gonna get there by working hard, respecting my capacity for the body that I'm in, and not grading Keisha's paper based off the answers that Kayla got. That's the difference. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

That sealed with the kiss, the bow, whatever, uh hustling is grading your own paper off of someone else's answers or their own rubric. That is honestly genius because it is what everyone is saying. Like, go faster, do more, do all of the things, and you're right, it may not be what you really want to do or what you aspire to do, or is even in your card. Hustle is just doing more for doing more sake versus really being intentional and just working hard at the thing that you're really great at. But what is one question you would want people to ask themselves before they do more? Build the next event, lead a team, like before they get that next thing. What is something you would challenge someone to ask themselves before they take on one more thing?

SPEAKER_02

Am I doing this because I want to do this, or am I doing this because they say I need to do this? And I will tell you why. That's the question I would ask. We know that we are some of the most educated people in America. I have my bachelor's degree, I have my DES, I have last count between 24 and 25. I think I got somewhere between 16, 17 certifications in one year. Just stop. Just stop. Are you doing this because this is a burning, yearning desire? Or is it because that's oh well, corporate America, the corporate ladder? I'm supposed to go from an associate to you know a director to a senior director to a VP. And I don't get me wrong, I am not saying that there's anything wrong with that, but are you doing it because Caleb wants to do it? Or are you doing it because Keisha, Tara, Nikki, everybody else, oh, whatever, you know, whatever age they are, and they're already senior VP of banking. Your lane is not their lane. Their lane is not your lane. So why do I why do I need another certificate? I have certificates in accessibility, women in leadership, event leadership, all kinds of shit. So I feel like I'm working for the Navy. We have to be graced to do the things that we do. I know that I am graced and gifted to do events and also to talk about accessibility because I have the lived experience. I'm not getting ready to go over there and try to step on nobody else's side. Oh, yeah. And about trade shows, I have never done a trade show in my life. I have no desire to do trade shows that is not in my wheelhouse. So if somebody is looking to hire a road with Kiki for a trade show, don't let me hurt your feelings. I don't do trade shows. But again, it's knowing yourself. Why? That's the one question. Why am I doing this? And again, I'm not saying grab the brass, don't grab the brass ring. Make your money how you make, but don't let the money make you. But is it because it's the next step in your evolution, or is it the next step in the evolution? Two different things, two different things.

SPEAKER_01

And then we're done. Um no, I'm just uh it's you're absolutely right. One of my best friends and I say a lot uh is like it's not like shooting on yourself. Like, should you do it? Like really, is it because you should, or is it because you want to? Like, why are you really doing this? And why and like did you make the decision because you were tired and you need to sleep? And if so, like go for like lean all the way into that instead of saying, Oh, I should have actually like taken the trash out and walked the dog and like made dinner for 10 people and all of these things. Like, did you really need to do that? So it's real and in a lot of this conversation, I think we've talked about capacity, but it's really about getting to know yourself, yes, and knowing what you are about, what you're what power you're stepping into, and and leaning all the way into that. I'm so happy we had this conversation. We could probably talk for like 20 more hours about all of these things. Um so I'm excited to go to Raleigh, and I do want to do like a dinner or something like casual for event pros that are in the area, like us just getting together and we don't have to talk about like planning the next event. We could, or we could just talk about like it has been a pleasure, it has been an honor. I will link everything about you in the show notes and description. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Is there any final thoughts, nuggets of wisdom you want to share with everyone before we work?

SPEAKER_02

Um having me up here. This has been a long time coming. I'm so happy that we got a chance to get together. No final thoughts. Um, just remember your capacity. You know, this bottle is not in the factory saying, look at me. Hey, I can hold 30 fluid ounces, bruh. You got 16.9. So it really is um knowing yourself. Spend some time with yourself, get to really know the things that you want to do and not the things that say that they say you're supposed to have done by certain milestones in your life. Um, because you're gonna be miserable. Like I being self-employed, I am the happiest I've been probably in a long time, because I get to set my boundaries and this client don't know, you know, like oh, okay, she don't work out till nine o'clock. Cool. Yes, they got it. So it's just take some time to get to really get to know yourself. That's where your feeling worthy is gonna come in from.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you so much. We're gonna wrap because I couldn't ask for more perfect ending.