The Audacity!

Episode 34: Micro-Cheating: The Tiny Betrayals That Break Trust

• Season 1 • Episode 34

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0:00 | 46:52

This week on The Audacity!, Amanda and Ashton dive into one of the most debated relationship topics today: micro-cheating.

Is liking an ex's thirst trap harmless? What about flirty DMs, work spouses, keeping old flames on standby, or deleting messages your partner doesn't know about?

The conversation explores where attraction ends and emotional betrayal begins, why secrecy matters more than most people realize, and how trust is often broken long before physical cheating ever happens.

Amanda and Ashton share personal experiences, relationship boundaries, uncomfortable truths, and the importance of transparency, respect, and communication. They also discuss why every relationship has its own "contract," how past experiences shape our expectations, and the difference between honesty and emotional loyalty.

Whether you're single, dating, engaged, or married, this episode will challenge you to think about what trust, commitment, and respect truly look like in a modern relationship.

Topics Covered:

  •  What micro-cheating actually means 
  •  Emotional vs. physical betrayal 
  •  Exes, social media, and thirst traps 
  •  Work spouses and emotional attachments 
  •  Pornography and emotional intimacy 
  •  Transparency vs. secrecy 
  •  Boundaries in relationships 
  •  Trust repair after betrayal 
  •  Why communication matters more than assumptions 
  •  The role of self-respect in healthy relationships 

If you've ever wondered, "Would my partner be okay if I did this?" — this episode is for you.


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SPEAKER_01

This podcast is for the woman who refuses to settle. The one who knows she is made for more. It's for the audacious woman who is ready to burn the ship. Own her story and create a life built on radical self-belief. I'm Amanda Galloway.

SPEAKER_00

I'm Ashton Greer. We are your podcast hosts, and we welcome you to the Audacity Podcast.

SPEAKER_01

Hello, welcome back to the Audacity Podcast. Hello, hello. Amanda and I just had like a whole podcast episode before joining the podcast. Because sometimes we need to catch up without anyone recording us or listening. This is true. There's a lot of things we said that could not be said.

SPEAKER_00

Or you just don't care. Like you literally won't care. Oh yeah, that's true. Like we're talking about our kids and dogs, puppies. Yep. Yep. Yep. So we're I told you I had a humbling moment today. Oh. And I would chair on the podcast. So I fell victim to social media and purchasing a hair product.

SPEAKER_01

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00

And I bought this GHD waiver. It's expensive.

SPEAKER_01

G H D waiver.

SPEAKER_00

Yes. Like your hair's wavy today. Yes. Okay. It's so beautiful on other people. You don't like it. It's so pretty. No. And I was like, man, today I have to record. I'll be on video. And then before this, I didn't tell you this part. I thought it looks pretty. Okay, thank you. You hate it. Thanks. I don't hate it, but I spent an hour prior to this doing like I spent an hour creating social media content for my business.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

An hour. And so today I had to do that and then do this recording. And I was like, of course I'm having a bad hair day. Because it's just getting used to this thing, and my hair just doesn't hold curl very well. It's very sleek and it just goes down.

SPEAKER_01

You actually came in today and I was like, something looks different about her. It's my hair. You look more relaxed. I'm not. You you look on the outside. I look relaxed on the inside. It's actually a really good look for you because you're normally very like polished.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It makes you look more approachable.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, cool. So I did videos. We'll see how it turns. Maybe like it'll be good. Anyway, I get on, so I start creating these videos and I meet with the social media person who helps me go through these videos. So I record them as sh and she's talking to me. And I get on the video, and she is just wearing a ball cap and I noticed she doesn't have hair. Oh. And I was like, oh my gosh, here I am complaining about my hair. And she's she re revealed to me that she has cancer and she's going through chemotherapy. Wow. And I was like, oh, what a humbling moment. Just to be grateful for the things that even if you're having a bad hair day, like be grateful that you have hair. If your kids are driving you crazy, be grateful that you have kids. So back to our beauty podcast, the GHD waiver works really good, I'm sure, for 90% of the people. Um, 10% of us with very sleek um hair that doesn't hold volume very well. Probably not the ideal product, especially with the cost.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Think it was too expensive. So I might return it. We shall see. Or maybe I'll get used to it and I'll figure it out, or I'll find a product that can works well with it. Anyway, I'll take advice.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Well, thank you for the beauty review. You do look beautiful. Thank you. Um, I your story made me think about this moment of gratitude that I had this week too. Yeah. I don't know. I've just been feeling like I think I've said this on the podcast before, but like disenchanted by life. That's crazy for you. Listen. You are always enchanted by life. This has been going on for years. Really? Years. Just like, oh, another day. Have a different perspective of you. Yeah, I'm I'm bubbly. Um but romanticize life, I feel like. I used to, yeah. My mom though said to me the other night, she saw me um at a bar, actually. Uh I was eating dinner there. It was a bar and girl. And uh she was like, Are you okay? Like, you just seem kind of down. And I was like, No, this is just my personality now. And she was like, What? I was like, Yeah, like for years, mom. Have you not noticed that like it's every time you see me, you're like, you seem down, and every time I'm like, no, this is just me now. That's hilarious. But I had this gratitude moment because I was just feeling super disenchanted, my wife, okay. Okay, yesterday. And like I got up late and I had slept in, which is in and of itself a privilege. I'm able to sleep in. I slept in. I'm just kind of feeling like, uh, I have to do laundry, I have to do work, I'm going, then I like go when I'm ready, when I want to. I go to my building downtown that I'm working on. I have to sand, patch, drywall. I'm painting the bathroom. I'm cleaning two by fours out of a storage room. I have this like list of things I have to do. And um, I'm doing it, and I'm like just feeling like I do not want to be doing this today. Like, oh my gosh, like, uh, and that's just how I feel about like a lot of things in life right now. And then I was like, oh my gosh, I slept in. I came here when I wanted to. This building I'm working on is gonna make me a profit. This is not my residence. This is an investment property. I can leave when I want, I can stay as long as I want, I can go to lunch when I want, I can drink a beer if I want while I work. I can go home. I can do this tomorrow if I want to. Like the amount of freedom that I have. And I was like, I am such an ungrateful poor. I don't know. I was going through all the words when that one just came out. But I literally was like, I am so ungrateful right now. Like, I have everything I need. Beautiful children, nine puppies at home that are so freaking cute. Seven of them have homes already. Thank God. Yeah. Seven of them have homes. Um, I have investment properties to work on. I have additional properties in addition to my home, my residence. Five of them. You know, I just had this like, ugh, why am I so ungrateful? And then um, anyway, I put myself in place and check check myself.

SPEAKER_00

Good. I think that that is a great way to handle things when you're feeling.

SPEAKER_01

I was like, this is stupid. I am being such a brat right now. That's okay. Brat. You can have feelings. I know, stupid. It literally so stupid. I don't have to get up. I don't have to get up at 7 30, punch a time clock, sit at a desk all day, work at 9 to 5. Like, I literally have built the life of my dreams.

SPEAKER_00

And I was just like so like, oh, I don't want to do this today. I have moments like that too. I love being my own boss though. 10 out of 10 recommend. Yeah. Who has that much freedom? Not many people. I don't f we we have a lot of freedom, but we don't. Mentally, it's like all the time. But there's a lot of physical freedom. I don't have to be in my office if I don't I mean, I am alive just because I enjoy being there. Yeah. But I like today I was all over the place.

SPEAKER_01

But then you have to be really self-motivated. I think that's kind of like the catch is nobody's expecting you to be anywhere. Yeah, that's true. And so, like, for me, even with the employment that I do have at the Fisher, Fisher Theater, there's a board, right? But they're all volunteers, so nobody's like expecting me to clock in. So, like everything that I do, and I do work really hard for the Fisher, but everything that I do, I have to be self-motivated. Like I tell myself, I'm going in at this time on this day, and I'm doing this thing, or if I'm not going to the office, I'm gonna be having these meetings, I'm gonna be writing this grant from home or whatever.

SPEAKER_00

And um You're very self-motivated.

SPEAKER_01

It requires a high level of self-motivation. Good.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you have that.

SPEAKER_01

I do. Yeah, but then there are days where I'm like, oh, I don't want to get out of bed, I don't want to do this. And I don't have to. Nobody's watching, nobody's making me. So I make myself because I'm a Virgo, but like, ugh.

SPEAKER_00

But that's how you develop confidence, is when you do things you don't want to do. Yeah. I my coach tells me all the time, Amanda, you let your feelings get in the way. Like, uh, I don't want to go work out, and then I won't because I let my feelings get in the way. We've talked about this before. It's an ongoing process, but I think that you really develop confidence when you start holding those promises to yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. You tell yourself, I'm gonna do this thing, and then you do it. So I think I have like tons of self-confidence in my profession because of I've proven to myself, oh, I know what I'm doing, I do a good job, I'm dependable, I'm reliable, I can do this, I'm good at this. Then other areas of my life, I really am like, I don't think I'm very good at this, like relationships, like which is a good segue.

SPEAKER_00

That is you're wearing shorts today, by the way. Again, here's my link. My feet. She's like, I'm not going to wear shorts. I don't know. It's hot outside. It is hot outside. I think I've yeah, I don't know. I you look great. Oh, thank you. You look great. Thank you. So today's podcast is over micro cheating.

SPEAKER_01

Ugh. Yeah. I've been listening to lots of podcasts on this and also experiencing this in my personal life. Yeah. Conversations about it. Not not micro cheating, but conversations about it in my personal life. Like, is this you know, is this a relationship is this cheating? Is this is this allowed?

SPEAKER_00

Or do I feel comfortable with this? Do you feel comfortable with this? Yeah. So you sent me a definition of microcheating.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, let me pull it up. Uh let me pull it up.

SPEAKER_00

And I think it's a really good idea.

SPEAKER_01

Yep. Liked it. Okay. Um micro cheating is also known as pre-cheating. So like precursors to actually cheating, cheating. Um, but it describes the behaviors that you conceal, which means that you know that they are wrong. It leads everyone in the relationship to question emotional and physical commitment. It is ultimately a shift in emotional loyalty. Yeah. Makes sense. Yep. So your your attention goes elsewhere. Maybe you're confiding in someone else, you're um entertaining things that you typically wouldn't entertain. Yeah. Yeah. Any any sort of like your yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So the thing is like where is the line? And I think everybody is going to have a different perspective on where the line is.

SPEAKER_02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

So people debate things like thirst traps. Oh my gosh. Following exes, talking to exes. Um gosh. Liking photos.

SPEAKER_01

Flirty DMs. Uh-huh. And maybe even like a close friend of the opposite sex at work. Right. Work spouse.

SPEAKER_00

Work work wife. And I think ultimately you have to have that conversation with your partner. Because some people are okay with certain things, whereas others are not. And I think having open conversations and transparency on what is okay and what's not in the relationship is really where you have to go. Ultimately, what I ask myself is if Antonio was doing this, or if Antonio did something like this, how would I feel? Right.

SPEAKER_01

Well, the other like definition of it that well, because I listened to several podcasts. The other one that I that I heard is cheating is diverting where you're investing your time, emotional, and sexual energy. Secrecy is the betrayal. Yeah. Because in secrecy, all trust and emotional safety are broken.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So if somebody is lying to you in the relationship or not being honest, then you don't know what else are they lying to me about. Like the emotional intimacy or closeness of it is broken. Versus if I came, say Amanda's my girlfriend, and I came to Amanda and I was like, hey, I have this friend at work. We're getting really close. I just want you to know, like, I'm aware, you know, that this is dangerous territory, and I want to be honest with you about it and see how you feel about me having a friend of the opposite sex. That is very different than me having a friend of the opposite sex, confiding in anything not saying anything. There's secrecy, there's hiding. You know, if you're hiding it, you know it's wrong.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. So some questions. Okay. Just off of your your own thoughts. Okay. Is liking an ex's thirst trap cheating?

SPEAKER_01

Now, I here's what I think. Cheating is defined differently in every relationship.

SPEAKER_00

Microcheating. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Here's what I think. Microcheating and cheating, they're defined differently in every relationship. So there are people in open relationships. And their relationship's great. And they have agreements, and you know, it's open. But it couldn't be me either. No way. No how. I would murder. No judge. I would murder. But, you know, in these open relationships where it's totally acceptable because it's agreed upon. So every relationship really has its contract. Um, but we can talk about like in my relationship, right? Or your what I would expect or what you would expect.

SPEAKER_00

In traditional. Let's this whole conversation will be very traditional.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, in a traditional relationship. Yes. Is liking an ex's thirst trap cheating?

SPEAKER_00

I would say if they're doing it for the sake of validating their that sexual energy, I would see that as microcheating.

SPEAKER_01

Well, the first question is why? Why are you liking it? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

So if it is to get the attention.

SPEAKER_01

Is there a good reason to like it though? Is there any answer? Is there any answer that's like, oh yeah, that's totally fine.

SPEAKER_00

No, I don't even follow my extra.

SPEAKER_01

Like, I was liking my ex's thirst trap to make them feel validated. Is that okay? No. I was liking my ex's thirst trap because I wanted their attention. No, that's not okay. I was liking my ex's thirst trap because I wanted to have a conversation with them. No, that's not none of it's okay.

SPEAKER_00

I don't see any area where that's okay. No. But I'm giving room for doubt and curiosity. Okay. And maybe if someone has something where they think it's okay, please share.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I any ex that I have, I may maintain like we're social media friends, you know, because I don't hate them or like, you know, whatever, but I unfollow them. I don't engage, right? Yeah. Right. Are you like that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. I don't follow exes. I am a cancer, so when I end things with someone, I end them. They are gone out of my life. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

How would you feel if your partner had conversations with an ex and still following them?

SPEAKER_00

And yeah, we talked about that. I don't like it. It's not my favorite thing. So part of me is also my own insecurity, and I'm very self-aware of it. It's not, I just want I would like a conversation with my partner that's hey, I talked to so and so, I just want to tell you about it. Yeah. Full transparency. Yeah. But I transparency is key. I think that's the biggest thing. However, like on the flip side, you know, if I I'm trying to think of like one ex that I have like I would be friends with, that I would talk to, I there's no threat there, right? So I'm trying to spin it on its head of well, in that person there wasn't any like deep connection though, right? Either. So I think it depends on the connection that they had with the person. Maybe they just like found out that they're better off as friends and moved on and they explored that and whatever. But when they had that maybe like a sexual, like hot, sexy relationship, and it's still flaming a little bit. No, you it's not no.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Just my perspective.

SPEAKER_01

What if it was just like a one-night stand and they're friends on Instagram still?

SPEAKER_00

Nah, I don't I don't think that matters. No, it's not no for you. I no, I don't care about that. I don't care. I think the point is, are you still keeping a connection with them in secrecy? The secrecy. The secrecy is truly where it's at. That's what I'm trying to get to. Yeah. That is all where it's at. However, I will say, if someone slides into my DMs and I don't respond, I don't think that there's any reason to really tell Antonio about that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because there's no threat. I'm not engaging in it. Right. Yeah, like a fire emoji sent to me. Like I ignore it and I move on with my life. It's not worth having that conversation. Right. I wouldn't do anything. It just and Antonio the same way. Like I am choosing not to respond, and therefore there's no implications from it. Right. Um I don't, but if your partner sent a fire emoji to someone else. Yeah, to someone else. I used to have an ex who would send fire emojis, and he he was like, No, it means like you're doing great. Keep it up. Like you're on fire. No. Uh nope. Um he was determined that that's what it was. Okay. Um he was a little socially awkward too. So I'm like, that's not true. It could just be that.

SPEAKER_01

Well, here's a real thing too. Whenever I get a fire emoji from a man who's in a relationship. Oh. This happens a lot, actually, yeah for me. And maybe for you too. But a man who's in a relationship will send me a fire emoji or a heart, a picture of me or something, that automatically puts up like I start to feel bad for his wife. Yeah. Or his girlfriend. Yes. It makes him look bad. It makes him look bad. Yeah. And it also makes me think like, does she know that he's in like he's engaging with me in this way? Like I don't like it. I lose respect for that man pretty instantaneously. I actually had a man who was married, who was still married, um, who would regularly like check in on me, like, how are you doing? Haven't seen you in a while. You were looking good at the gym, harding my stuff, firing, like fire emoji myself, what are you doing tonight? I'm kind of bored. Yeah. Okay. That's so bizarre. I know this man and I semi-know his wife. And uh I eventually like just blocked him on everything. And I even debated reaching out to her. Like it was honestly a huge it was hard for me to decide. Like, do I reach out to her and tell her? Does she know? Do I ever want to involve myself in this?

SPEAKER_00

But then you start asking yourself questions, like, what is his actual intentions?

SPEAKER_01

Is he just being motive? Yeah. And then he would probably gaslight me. You know what I mean? Like if I did tell her, he'd be like, What the what's wrong with you? I was just being friendly. Like, you know what I mean? So I don't know. I just typically block, remove myself from the situation. Right. And like then pray that the truth comes out for them. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's a good point. It's hard. Yeah. I've had that happen too. And I just don't engage. I I think you're right though. I'll lose a lot of respect for people who are like that.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and that's why it makes sense that you, if your partner engaged in that, you would lose respect for them. Which I which I would as well.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I would, absolutely. I had someone send me a fire emoji to a picture of me and Antonio on a motorcycle. Oh. It was an a guy that I know. But it was you and Antonio. Yeah, but I didn't think it was you're hot. Right. Yeah. So I think it can be interpreted very differently and the context can be very situational.

SPEAKER_01

Well, if it's you and your boyfriend together in the picture. Yeah. He's like, you know, it's like, ooh, you guys are maybe you're a hot couple. Wow.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, maybe. Who knows? Is having a work spouse cheating? It is a spell. You're calling it a spouse.

SPEAKER_01

I uh this one is for me, yes. It is. Um but okay, so like if my partner had a work wife, a woman that he was very close with, that brought him coffee at work and took care of him at work, whatever. Would I like it? No. Yeah. No, I don't like that.

SPEAKER_00

Again, what's the intention behind the motive?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, right. Like is it is it like, you know, is it maternal? How old is she? Is she 60? Right. And she's like motherly to you? Yeah. Is there any threat there? Right. I think all those things kind of come into play.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. So another one is following a hundreds of attractive people cheating.

SPEAKER_01

Um, okay. Um I love that you're asking me these questions. Is okay, well, I I'm gonna counter this with a question to you. Okay. Okay. If say Antonio is following hundreds of or even dozens, ten, two, five, whatever, um Instagram models. Okay. Is it cheating? I would say it's only cheating if that's a boundary in your relationship. So, like if you and Antonio may have an agreement, you can follow hot guys, he can follow hot girls, you know, yeah. As long as you don't know him, fine. You know, like we can admire other people's bodies, like whatever, if that's like an agreement in your relationship. It really just depends on the relationship. And I lean as a Virgo and as um someone who's like very protective of my relationships. I lean towards if there's a risk of any sort of rupture in the relationship, let's just not even go there. Like, if there's a you know, if it's a chance, like it's not worth it. This relationship is way too important. Get rid of all of it. Like, I have none of none of that on my social media. Even like, even if like a friend sends me a video of like hot men, I'm like, um, I don't know if my partner would like this. Like, that's like literally how my brain works. I'm like, I just I don't think that's disrespectful. Um so for me in my relationship, yeah, it's cheating because it's a boundary that I have and an expectation I have for myself and for my partner. Yeah. But like in other people's relationships, like there's they're totally Fine with it. So I think it just depends. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. What do you think? Well, I watched a TikTok the other day and it was I sent it to you earlier and it was a guy. Oh yeah, the men and the thongs and that. I'm just kidding. I just can't I just I was like, what? I just missed something. No, the one where the guy was like watching porn is is considered bankroche because you're putting your sexual energy into someone else that's not your partner.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I was like, oh, I felt that. Mm-hmm. Because I want to be women like to be admired. And I would rather like it to me that is important in my relationship. I want to feel admired. I want to feel like he's attracted to me. And if there's other women, it kind of makes me maybe this is just my insecurity. And granted, every person is attracted to other people, but when there is an actual action occurring, especially when it comes to masturbation and porn, it does not make me feel good.

SPEAKER_01

Well, there's actually like when a so we're gonna go talk about masturbation. Uh, if you want to log off now, this is your chance. Uh, give me two seconds. One, two, okay. When a man masturbates, it actually um releases, you know, a lot of like chemicals and whatever, and there's a significant drop in testosterone. Okay. And so then that removes any sort of like seeking or desiring of you for a period of time until it rebuilds, it makes them more relaxed, less energized, and it's in that building up of that testosterone that brings them back to that desiring state. If you have a partner that's frequently masturbating or frequently um putting that energy towards, you know, women on the internet or whatever, um, their attention to you, their need for you, their desire for you is going to be less in in their in that way. So it affects, I think, the dynamic of a relationship as far as like intimacy goes.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And the amount that your man like relies on your comes to you for that need. So some women who are more avoidant or don't really want that intimacy. An avoidant woman, I think, cares way less. I have several female friends that are like, I don't want to, I don't want to take care of his sexual needs. Like, yeah, I got enough going on. Like, you know, and so like they don't care because they're avoidant. So that level of intimacy and closeness is not nearly as important to them. Right. Whereas like you have someone like you or I who are who's more anxious, more values intimacy, close connection, sexual content or sexual contact with your partner, whatever. Those things, if they're really important to you, that's gonna feel like a lot more of a threat because um you value intimacy and you're not afraid of intimacy. It doesn't exhaust you in the way that it does someone that's avoidant.

SPEAKER_00

That is true. I was listening to a podcast, and this woman was writing in asking about this man that she was interested in and she was masturbating to him. And the podcast hosts were like, absolutely not, because your brain doesn't know the difference between reality and what's fake. Yeah. So when you are creating that intimacy with that person in your mind, your brain is interpreting that as actual intimacy with that person. So then your connection with that person draws even more. Yeah. And I just was like, wow, that is so true. Like it's one thing to find someone attractive, it's another thing to be fantasizing about to act. And then to, yeah, to have some type of reaction to that. So I found that really, really interesting.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I think that if you are in a relationship and you're trying to maybe there's someone in your life that you're like you're attracted to, that's something you don't do because you don't want to build on that attraction. You need to find a hard line there for yourself and have self-control and just put boundaries in place because I think throughout life we will come across people that we're attracted to.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I think that's completely normal. Yeah. But I think the important thing is like, are you actually, if you're on a work trip, are you taking them to your hotel room? Are you letting them buy you drinks? Are you engaging with them on conver about conversations with your relationship and it's not going well? So you're venting to them. All these things are not okay. Yeah. And that to me is micro cheating. So if you would not want your spouse doing it, your partner doing it, I don't think you need to be doing it. And if it's something that you wouldn't do in front of them, don't don't engage in it if you respect your partner.

SPEAKER_01

I think you have to take it a step further, too, of like, is this something that I would be okay with my partner doing? You know, yes or no? The answer might be yeah, like I'd be fine with it, but I know they're not. Yes. That's a really good point. So, like, even if you know that they're fine with it, um, but you also know or you know that you wouldn't care if they did it to you, but but you know that they care if you do it. So I think you have to go a step further to not like is about me, but more like, is this something that they that would be hurtful to them or that would breach break their trust or that I would feel like I would have to hide that might come in between our relationship or our bond. And I think every relationship has a contract and boundaries and guidelines, and if you think of it that way, each person has different needs, different intimacy needs, different expectations of their partner. Yeah. I'm not approved, okay? I'm not approved at all. You know that I'm not approved. And anybody listening to this podcast knows that I'm not approved, but I have really high expectations and standards for my partner in preserving their sexuality for me because it's important to me and because I do the same for them. And so, like, I don't know, as much as I've tried to compromise on this boundary, I'm like physically, it's a physically impossible for me.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

It's like I can't, it's not a boundary that I can compromise on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I think that you have to know yourself. And there's nothing wrong with your boundary. There's nothing wrong with needing what you need. And in relationship, I have a strong boundary, I have a strong need. The other person, even though it may not be their boundary or need, they have to meet it. And if they have a strong boundary or need, even though it's not mine, I have to choose, can I meet that? Can I meet them there? This is their need, and can they meet?

SPEAKER_00

What if you can't?

SPEAKER_01

If you can't, you have to be honest about that. So, like if if my partner said, uh Ashton, you can't have any friends of the opposite sex ever. And uh actually you can't even you can't even talk to men at work. You need to, you know, only email, I don't know, something crazy. I would have to say, well, that's unrealistic and and it's not, I can't do that because I have male colleagues and I have friends that are male, and um, I'm gonna let you know right now I can't meet that boundary. And then you're giving that person the opportunity to walk away, right? Or to say, I'm, you know, okay, I'm gonna move my boundary a little bit. But I think lying about it, pretending whatever, that's not sustainable. Right. It is rupture.

SPEAKER_00

So here are some other examples flirty DMs, secret texting, deleting messages, keeping an ex on standby, emotional dependence on someone outside the relationship, seeking validation from others, maintaining dating app profiles just for fun, and sharing things with someone else before your partner. I don't agree with that last example. I there's times where I share things with you. I want to say an attractive person. Right, because you want to impress them. Yeah. So yeah, I think it's oftentimes you're maybe you're seeking validation, you're bored, you're seeking attention, creating excitement in your life, you're maybe insecure or keeping your options open, or maybe you're just simply afraid of a commitment.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, if you're unwilling to close that escape hatch.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And many people aren't looking for another person, they're looking for a feeling.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

They're thinking, oh, if I get this feeling, it'll validate me.

SPEAKER_01

But I think communication can kind of fix everything if if I'm looking for this feeling, but maybe I need to go to my partner and say, I don't feel like excited anymore. Yeah. I don't really feel desired or chosen by you anymore.

SPEAKER_00

But what would be your advice to someone who's listening where they don't feel like their partner will be accepting to that or would really listen?

SPEAKER_01

Um You're probably dating a narcissist. I'm serious. If somebody loves you and you're feeling and you have if if someone loves you and you're in partnership with them and you go to them earnestly, like, hey, I really want to work on this in a relationship, and then they gaslight you or they won't even make an effort to meet you there, you're just not with the right person. Right. Yeah. Honestly.

SPEAKER_00

Transparency is super important. Also the reaction that your partner gives to you. Yeah. Like if you have someone super aggressive when you address something that you're insecure about, that's not a good way to respond. So, you know, maybe it's working through that or going to therapy, whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_01

Because you have to have two willing parties. You do.

SPEAKER_00

And you, I mean, they're it's so hard. It's such a hard thing because but I do think I will say, I do think men are becoming more open to these conversations.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I think so. Like I think that there's more awareness to emotional attachment. Yeah. Oh yeah. You know, just the conversation is much more prevalent today than it was even 10 years ago. That I think that there's a lot of men out there who are going to listen and they just want to please you. They want to be with you. And I think it's also how you address it. I heard this made me think about this. It's really funny.

SPEAKER_01

I heard that a part of the reason they started legalizing divorces in in um our culture is because women were murdering their husbands.

SPEAKER_02

Oh.

SPEAKER_01

They saw no escape, no way out. Yeah. And so, like, then all these like prominent men were dying because their wives were like poisoning them or killing them in their sleep. And back then there's probably no evidence. Right. And it was just like these men just were dying because these wives had no escape hajge. Oh my gosh. They had no way to get out of this abusive environment, whatever, where they, you know. And and now it's like, you know, it's complete opposite, I guess, where we have every resource to take care of ourselves, to right. And so men are kind they're the bars raising. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It really is. I think so too. I think there's much more self-aware men. Yeah. Emotionally intelligent men than ever before. Okay. Yeah, I agree. So a lot of this is like trust isn't usually broke by just one act. I think that it's not I'll well, I'll just say, like, I don't think it's anything's right or wrong, but I think you're right that it depends on the situation. Um I think that it's about discussing intent, your secrecy, respect, emotional investment. And I think that's where the deepest conversations lie.

SPEAKER_01

I agree. Because every rupture, there's a chance to repair. There is. And if you repair rupture, but that's a secret, is to actually repair it. Right. That's the that's the thing. And some boundaries you didn't know you had until they're crossed. You know, and then you're like, oh, I don't like that. I don't like that. I need to communicate that to my partner. And if your partner is like, oh, she doesn't like that, you know, I'm gonna work on that, I'm not gonna do that again. And they meet you there, like that's a good way to repair, is to say, Hey, I'm sorry, I didn't know that would hurt you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I'm not gonna do that again. And you repair and then you prove it to them and with time and actions and consistency, the re the repairs made. Yeah. But if your partner says, Hey, that hurt me, and then you say to them, Well, like, you're just insecure, you're stupid, or whatever, like if you come back with that, it's it's not gonna repair, that rupture's gonna it's gonna deepen.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I agree. Right. Um, but again, everyone is so different, and there's no judgment on anything here. I think Ashton and I just tend to be a little bit more traditional.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But there's no judgment in that. Like, I we don't care if someone is has an open relationship, is bisexual, or is you know, whatever. We do not care.

SPEAKER_01

I just care to all the girls listening. All I care about is that your needs and boundaries are being respected, whatever they are, whether it's my man can go to ship clubs every weekend, and I don't care. That's okay. As long as he's not touching, he can look at whatever he wants. If that's your boundary, great. That's fine. That's great. I hope he doesn't touch. You know what I'm saying? Like, I just hope he doesn't cross, like, I just hope you're being respected. Yeah. And that's really it. Like, everyone's boundaries and needs are very personal, and their perspecti perspectives on sexual energy and sex and interactions online and all of that. Like, we all just have different life experiences and preferences. And there's nothing wrong with your preferences, and there's nothing wrong with you know, hope expecting your partner to respect them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Having a conversation, it's so important.

SPEAKER_01

And have enough self-respect to recognize what you need and desire in your your truth and your values. If you live outside of that to keep someone in your life or please someone else, you will slowly die. Like speaking from experience.

SPEAKER_00

Have self-respect enough to not seek validation outside of your partner. Yeah. If you're feeling a certain way, because you're not going to feel good about it. And this is coming from me who's had many different mistakes in my own life. And I never once felt good from one of those standards I would set for my partner or myself myself that I violated. And I have to live with myself at the end of the night. So I want to go to bed knowing that I did right by the people that I love every single day moving forward. Like I just the feeling of violating my partner in a way that would hurt their feelings, I just don't want to live that way. Kindness is the epitome of my existence. I love being just compassionate and kind to other people.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I think that if I don't act in that kindness, I'm not being kind to myself either. Yeah. So respecting yourself is that.

SPEAKER_01

Your own values, like your own values, your peace, yeah. Compassion, kindness. Whereas I would say mine are similar, like compassion and kindness, but truth. Yes. Probably truth of peace. Yeah, it's super important to me. So like even like a half truth, I'm probably gonna have a hard time with that.

SPEAKER_00

And oftentimes we know. Mm-hmm. We know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm gonna need the whole truth. Uh-huh. Otherwise, like I don't I don't know. Truth is just really important. Yeah, I agree with you. And I'm like honestly, um Taylor Swift has a song. Of course. Okay, and the line is uh casually cruel in the name of being honest. And like she's talking about ex-boyfriend, he was casually cruel just in the name of being honest. Like, I'm just being honest. That is me. I don't mean to be cruel. And I don't mean to be like casually cruel, but I'm just so honest in my like communication with people. I was just telling Amanda about a conversation I'm gonna have to have with somebody. Yeah, and I was spelling it up, I'm gonna tell them this and this, and this and she was like, God, like she's like, You're just so honest. Yeah, and I was like, But I have to be.

SPEAKER_00

I have to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01

But delivery is so important.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, delivery is important. Like Antonio's incredibly honest, but to my detriment at times, right? Where it hurts my feelings. You want it to be a little bit nicer, like so I'm a lot more sensitive and I am super cautious about how I say things so I don't hurt someone's feelings. So I think it's really important to be honest, but I think that you can escalate a situation if you aren't kind in the delivery.

SPEAKER_01

Do you think a white lie is okay to protect someone's heart? Their feelings?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, what kind of I don't know. Yes, and yeah, I'll I'll give you an example.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think that's really fine.

SPEAKER_00

Because I would want him to do the same for me. Right. Just like build me up, baby. Build me up. I don't care. Like I will make changes on myself when I'm ready to.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, like there's there's this, yeah. And the example that I was going to say was like if a guy, if a girl asks his guy, do these pants make me look fat? Like you're always going to say, No, they don't make you look fat because you don't want to hurt their feelings or their confidence, and then it spirals, and then they start thinking that they're not enough, and then you end up fighting, and it's just like sometimes it could be a way of just being like, like if Antonio asked me that, I'd be like, Well, what's important to you? Like, what you know, how are you feeling? It doesn't matter what I think. Like, how do you feel in it?

SPEAKER_01

I have learned to really appreciate that in a partner, though. Like, if I asked a boyfriend, like, hey, how does this outfit look on me? And he was like, Honestly, like it doesn't flatter you. Or like those jeans make your butt look really flat or whatever. Like, I don't take it personally, but I'm thank you, let me change my jeans.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'll get rid of these. Yeah, Antonio's told me, like, there was this dress I was wearing and it had like crosses, it was like crisscross, and he was like, That is so 90s. Like, you need to burn it. And I had worn out all day, and I was like, Okay. No, he just didn't like it. He didn't like it. Yeah, he didn't.

SPEAKER_01

Did you give it to me?

SPEAKER_00

No. I actually did throw it away.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, okay. I was like, I probably like it. I love that style. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, it was cute. I wore like something else over the top, so it was layered, but whatever. I mean, your life, my life is not about pleasing other people.

SPEAKER_01

No. So and I would say there have been times where I'm just like, well, I don't really care if you don't like it. I feel amazing in this.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I'm gonna wear it anyway. Sorry. So I had a dream last night that that's coming to mind. Like, I had a dream, so I have my nails like light pink right now, and I always go to this color by default for some reason. I like neutrals.

SPEAKER_01

Mine are light too.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I like yours. So I had a dream last night that Antonio was like, I do not like your nails. So I like frantically went to a nail salon and painted them because I was like so concerned. It was an interesting dream. And I was like, hmm, what do I need to learn from this? I mean they're powerful. But I do take Antonio's great taste with many things, so I do take what he says seriously. But yeah, there's just some things that we don't align with when it comes to oh, like his he just decorated his home and he has his TV stand. Oh, yeah, you told me this. In front of the sliding grass glass door instead of above the fireplace, it is atrocious. Yeah, he needs to change it. He won't. All the girls in his life are telling him that he needs to change it, but he will not listen.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's a bad bad decision. Bad design. Bad design. Bad design decision. Yeah. Maybe functionality though. Maybe he loves it. Maybe it is functional.

SPEAKER_00

It's functional for him.

SPEAKER_01

I don't like to look up at the TV. Well, that's just his priorities. That's just his priorities. Function over you know, beauty. He prefers he prefers the function.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. I think he prefers beauty. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder in this situation. True. Yeah, I don't think it looks good. My mom, nobody. His kids are like, you need to change that. It looks so bad. I mean, you sent it to me and I was like, oh god. That's atrocious. And it's a big TV. And his backyard is beautiful. Beautiful. And yeah, it's covered by this big ass TV. And we don't even watch TV. So it's quite the the eyesore. Anyway, back to this microcheating.

SPEAKER_01

What else do you have to Well, I was I was gonna wrap it up. Yeah, let's um let's do it. So in summary, um, micro cheating is basically a shift in emotional loyalty or crossing your partner's boundaries in secrecy. Yes. Hiding it, um, not being honest about it. And um, according to a podcast I listened to today, there's five signs of this, okay? So sending or uh engaging in texts or DMs that you don't want your partner to know about. Deleting text, guarding your phone, deleting messages, any of that is uh dishonest and micro-cheating. The drop test. If you dropped your phone and your partner picked it up, do you have anxiety? Do you do you worry? If your partner Do they freak out? Uh-huh. Are you okay with your partner looking at the text and the messaging messages that you're sending and receiving? Do you need to explain it? Do you have to bullshit and and make excuses for your actions? Yeah. Okay. Um emotional struggles and personal thoughts are shared in confidence with another, confiding in someone other than your partner.

SPEAKER_00

Of the opposite sex who you're attracted to.

SPEAKER_01

Right. It's different in a friendship or something, but dressing up and acting differently when you know you're going to see a specific other person. So I'm going to see a guy at work today that I'm attracted to. And you want his own. So in the morning, I wake up and I put extra effort into looking really good. True. So that he thinks I look really good instead of thinking about my partner. Yeah. So dressing up and acting differently when you know you're going to see a specific other person, if somebody like comes to mind.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's also with their straps if you're trying to put it up there for the attention to get the attention.

SPEAKER_01

You're putting like a sexy, really sexy picture. Yeah. And then you want to get like another person online to engage with it.

SPEAKER_02

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01

Uh downplaying a relationship with a person. So saying to your partner, we're just coworkers or we're just gym buddies, and you have an internal defensiveness about an outside relationship. That defensiveness that comes up is because you're doing something you know you shouldn't be doing. Yes. And then fantasizing about a life with someone else. So you may have a fleeting thought, Oh, he seems like a great husband. I wonder what that would be like. Okay, fine. Move on. Move on. But if they're sticking around and you're comparing your partner to them regularly, you're daydreaming about them, you're masturbating to them, you're veering into emotional territory. Right. And you're cheating. Yeah. Like so that's kind of the the uh summary and rip recognizing and remembering that there's a difference between honesty, like you had to pull it out of your partner, and transparency, where you're just like, I'm just gonna be really transparent about this. I feel a little weird about it. I think I should tell my partner. I I do that regularly. If I feel weird about something, hey, I just want you to know this thing came up. I don't want if you look at my messages and you see it, I want you to know it's there, I want you to know why it's there. Being proactive and thinking about your partner's feelings. Yeah, not reactive.

SPEAKER_00

Be proactive. Yeah, I think that's great, a great summary of everything. So yeah. Yeah. That's it. If you have questions, let us know.

SPEAKER_01

Uh-huh. We'll be here. And uh next week, we don't know what we're talking about yet. Do we?

SPEAKER_00

No. We don't know yet. But um We created this whole list and when you get back to it.

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah. But whole disenchantment. Maybe we should do an episode on being disenchanted by life and how to get out of it. And you can talk to me and coach me. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

I'd be good at that. Uh yeah. All right. Well, thank you, ladies, for listening. Follow, share podcasts if you don't mind. I would love to see more engagement. Yeah. Please. Even if you want it to be private, slip into our DMs.

SPEAKER_01

A little hard. We need some encouragement, like a little hard or share the episodes. Like any of that. Really, really. It's like a it's like a hug. It is.

SPEAKER_00

It's so sweet. And yeah, girl hug. I put the in every episode I put the Instagram and the Facebook and the YouTube links below. So follow someone on YouTube. And I'm going to try to start a TikTok because I think that's where the girlies are.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00

I think.

SPEAKER_01

But she's so tech. Like you're so high tech.

SPEAKER_00

No, I tried it. I hate I hate social media. I'm not high tech at all. But what I am is I try to think where is my audience and how can I reach them. And I think our girlies might be on TikTok. And I've been trying to create more videos because they also think our girlies are on reels. So I think that's where it's at. I just want to help more people. Yeah. Like you do. All right. All right. Bye.