What 85 Years in Business Teaches You About Leadership

In this episode of Pouur Decisions, Sharece sits down with John Lahoski of Peninsula Hardwoods for a real conversation about what it takes to sustain a family business across multiple generations. From the founding of Terry Lumber in 1940 to the growth of Peninsula Hardwoods, this episode explores legacy, leadership, customer service, and the decisions that help a business keep moving forward.

John shares how his grandfather started the business after being denied a raise, how the company survived a major flood with the help of the local community, and what it has looked like to carry the business into the next generation. The conversation also covers working with family, building a strong team, educating customers, handling business problems before they turn into bigger legal issues, and learning how to lead people well over time.

This is an honest conversation about entrepreneurship, family business, community support, and the kind of leadership lessons that only come from real experience.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome back to Poor Decisions and I am so excited. I am with John Lahaski and um his business is he has a couple different businesses really interesting. Um Peninsula Hardwoods and um Terry Lumber. Correct. So um it's really exciting how the two like kind of merged together and what made you open up um this type of business? How did you get started?

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Sure. Actually, my grandfather started the business in 1940. Um so we've been around a little bit. He started Terry Lumber and he actually started it because there was another little small lumber yard in Peninsula at the time. Okay. So he went to his boss and asked him for a raise. And the boss told him, No, I'm not giving you a raise. Oh. So he said, Fine, I'm gonna start my own business. And here we are 80 years, 85 years later.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

Good for him.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Yeah, so he was how old was he at the time? Oh geez, he was 1940. So he was probably in his, I think, late 20s when he started. That's bold, that you know. Yeah, and so you know, not long after that, World War II started. He was smart and he was ahead of his time. He figured out to get government contracts to build crates. Oh, no way. So he always had a constant supply of lumber, and during that time everything was rationed. So he was able to have a continuous supply of lumber for not only the war effort, but for his customers.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

So my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

He was innovative in that way and he loved to sell. He didn't care about receivables or payables, but that's you know, that's what he did. Um, just loved to sell. Um, and then his our location has changed over the years. We used to be by Boston Mills uh ski resort. Okay, yes. And um his property was acquired by the national park, and so he had to relocate. So he's able to relocate to Peninsula. Not far. No, no, it was only about a mile away from here. Okay, and he was able to acquire uh New York manufacturing company, which was called Davidson McNair, okay, which became Peninsula Harvards, and this was 1981. So he had uh my dad and my uncle then running that business, and my dad ran both companies until his passing in 2005. And my brother and I have both been in the business. Um I've been in the business full-time since 1999, but I grew up in the business. I think I started when I was 13. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

What were you doing in the business?

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Like I started off in hardware, I was putting hardware away. Okay, you know, as a young kid, you don't really sometimes you're not really driven to work. And I can remember my dad say, Come on, you're going to work, and I didn't really have an option, but it's it's worked out. Yes. So yeah, we're we're we're going strong, and and um both companies have enjoyed success over the years. It's we've had our up ups and downs, that's for sure. Of course, of course, yeah. Always a challenge, always, always something in business.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

Right, right, right. There's it's it's a roller coaster ride that as entrepreneurs we love. Yes, for some odd reason. I know, right? Right. Oh my gosh. Okay, so I want to go back to when you were you 13 working in the business. Did you know at that time that you wanted to like stay in the business, or was it just like, oh my dad's making me do this, I guess I'll just do it?

SPEAKER_00 3:33

No, I I never I always wanted to be in the business. And so much, I even went to college, you know, and I didn't really have to go to college, but my parents were like, you should really do this. You never know what could happen. Which which I did, and it was funny because even friends in college are like, why are you even going to school if you're gonna go work in the family business? Right. But I'm glad I did. Um, and so it was always kind of like something that that I wanted to pursue. And and I'm fortunate, I I work with my my brother who runs the businesses with me, and we have a good working relationship. Sometimes in family businesses you have difficulties to say. Goodness, yes, yes. So I'm I'm very blessed and fortunate that we're able to work together well. We have a fourth generation coming into the business now. My brother's son is in the business, not wow. Yeah, so it's it's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 4:24

That's so cool. Yes. Okay, so did you know, like, was there a certain area that you just you loved about the business, or did you just like the business itself, like what you guys were providing to clients?

SPEAKER_00 4:38

I think just overall, um, I like what we did. Okay. Um we're very we're very strong in the communities as far as like we're we're known in the community and and we support our local community as best we can. Yeah. Um, and I think that's a that's a big part of it. Um I I think I I may have said we had a flood in 2003, and we were worried about even staying in business because insurance didn't cover anything because we weren't this this were not susceptible to floods.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

That's right. So you probably didn't have that as a clause in here. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

So we were able, we had we just started cleaning, and we had 70 volunteers from the community come and help us, and they were here like employees, working every like full days. Oh my god, helping us clean mud and dirt and lumber and everything, and it was amazing. Wow, and it was and it's that's something you can never repay back to people, but you always remember, yeah, and and you try to remember to reciprocate that and help those people out down the road.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

So yeah, was it the there's not a creek or a lake or anything?

SPEAKER_00 5:46

What there is a creek that runs perpendicular to our property, and the and the Caga River is sits off to the side too, but the creek is what actually flooded. Um and we had parts of our property we had as deep as eight feet in our store. Here we had about 12 inches. We had 12 inches of water. The water wasn't bad, it was the mud that was the floods. Yeah, so that was a challenge, and we we we we coined it flood mud, is what we called it. So whenever we clean something, sometimes we'll still 20 some years later, still find remnants of it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Yeah, that's a pretty substantial flood. Yes, like yeah, that I can only imagine, like so.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Fortunately, we we were able to um get SBA loans for disaster relief. Oh, so good. Okay. That helped us get our get us back on our feet. They're low interest rate loans, which is beneficial. I mean, we're still paying them now, but it's such a small rate that it's fixed.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

So now was that something how did you find out about this? Because I'm sure initially you're like, okay, let's go through the insurance, and then they turned you down, and then was it through like I think we we looked at a bank loan initially, and then the bank's like, you need a disaster loan, SBA loan.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Okay. Okay so I think we coordinated through our bank and then they set us up with SBA. Okay, that's how it ended up doing.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

So well, one thing I always talk about too is that in business is that like different connections that you can make and partners that you can have, and you know, just the team is so instrumental. So thankfully, your bank told you about the SBA disaster loans, and they were like, Yeah, we're gonna this is what you need to do. So that team is so important. So that's good.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Yeah, so it helped us do some restructuring, um, you know, within the two companies, yeah, which which was somewhat needed at the time. I mean, we were we're an old company and we had tendencies to do things the old way, so it sped us up a little bit. So um, you know, you you kind of have to do it by necessity, not because you have the option to. So that that was that that helped us that move to events.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Well, those, I mean, that is something I always look at, okay. It's not necessarily that it's a bad thing, it's just like, oh, okay, we're going a different direction to make us even better. And it sounds like that was an opportunity there. Yeah. So, okay, um, so with the business itself, you know, what exactly do you guys what do you provide for people for your clients?

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Sure. So we have a full retail lumber yard, um, building center, um, and hardware store. So um, you know, I guess we would be a really scaled down version of like a loans, to put it in simple terms. Got it. That yes. But we provide ourselves on customer service. That's our number one thing. When that customer wants the hits the door, we're saying hello, we're greeting them, what do you need? That's that's what's kept us around so long. Um, and that's what we're we're known for. Yeah. Um, that and then we also have the the mill work side, which is the portion of the business that I operate, and that's that's a wholesale business. Okay. Um, and we do um custom millworks and and and trim there.

SPEAKER_02 9:14

So and this might sound crazy, but for let's say that there's a listener or a viewer that has no idea what millwork is. What exactly is mill work?

SPEAKER_00 9:23

So mill work would be like your door trim and four moldings in your home. Um so anything that it's it's I guess it's the it's the beauty part of the home, I guess I would say. So it's it gives it the accent in the home that makes things look really sharp. Um so that's something that we we pride ourselves in and we we we try to do a good job. So yeah, that's that's the mill work part that you know people don't always think about until right, right, right.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

They're like, oh the the it's it's missing something, that's what it's missing. Yes.

unknown 9:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Now, do you do installations also?

SPEAKER_00 10:00

We don't do any installation, but we have a good contractor base, and um, we have rapport with these contractors, and the biggest thing is in this day and age, a lot of times it's hard to get a call back.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

So we only partner ourselves with reputable guys, contractors that are gonna call you back, gonna do the job, and follow through. Yeah, um, that's what we build ourselves on, and that's what we want to carry through. Don't do any installed sales um just because they think that that's a whole nother avenue of business. So we just refer the good reputable contractors that we have, and you know, and they use us as a source for materials and supplies. Okay. We provide them with hey, we have customers that are so it's a referral, it's referral, total referral.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Yeah. Now, do you work a lot with like in um interior designers and um home builders, things like that?

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Um somewhat. Um, we do have some relationships with some architects that will spend certain things. Um worked a little bit with some designers um and then some home builders over the years. So it's we have a pretty broad base, I mean, from wholesale to commercial to residential. Yeah. So it's it's it's a pretty broad spectrum that we cover.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

What is do you have a favorite like thing? Like if a client comes in, your idea and you were like, This is what I really want to like work with you on. Is there an area that you like or well?

SPEAKER_00 11:28

It's funny because there's different types of customers. So you have um your contractors that come in and they know what they want.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

So they'll just say, Hey, I need this, okay, and then they're out the door. But then you'll have a homeowner that will come in and doesn't know anything about anything. And then you have to educate them. So you'll spend a little more time with that customer, but I think that's more rewarding. I like the education part of it. And and one thing that I've tried to do over the years is actually work with the products that we sell. So I can educate them and say, hey, you know, you have to do this, or do you want to do this? Or so I do like that portion of it. Um it can be challenging at sometimes. Um yeah, people people I say that people have um an Amazon Prime mentality where they got things in two days. Oh my god, you know, and and it and and you gotta steer them from there. Right, you're literally like we literally have to make this, like no.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

So that that can be a little challenging, but uh, but no, I mean, I like all different types of customers that we have. Right, of course. As far as any one product that I like to sell, I do like to sell the hardwood moldings and milk. That's my favorite part. That's that's my my area of the business, but um, you know, anything that we we offer, you know, I'm happy to help somebody with it.

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Oh, right, right. So take us through like how did you wind up kind of like you and your brother taking over the business? Was it did was it just like a your father just passed it down, said, hey, you guys, it's it's time for you guys, or or was it some or was it something different?

SPEAKER_00 13:13

So my dad initially started an education. So he was a health and physical education teacher, a football coach. So he always had that coaching, teaching experience in his background, and then my grandfather asked him uh to come into the business. And so it was it was a big change for him. So he kind of had to learn too. So my brother is five years older than me, so he was in the business full time sooner than I was. Okay, um, and then I came in later, and um our dad was really good about letting us do what we wanted to as far as you know how we want to do things in the business. He was still the general manager, the operator, but he let us get our hands into it. And so my brother Terry operates you know the Terry Lumber side, and then I'm operating the millwork side, which is kind of how it naturally fell. Right. Um and um so he was all my dad was always great about letting you do what you wanted to. He would tell you if you're investigating it. He was telling me, yeah, he was telling you, he would tell you if you were messing up something.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

But he's not gonna let you slide, right? But he he's like, if you're interested in this area, then this is where we want to have you.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Right, and and as a business owner, you know, you always kind of hold things close to the best, and you know, you don't want to, and he was never like that. He's like, and it's gonna work, figure it out. Oh, that's so good. Yeah, he was really good about that. And then unfortunately, he passed away suddenly. So we had already been more or less, my brother and I more or less had been operating the businesses. So I think there was concern when my dad passed what was gonna happen to the businesses, but we were able to keep things going, able to keep the same philosophy, I guess you'd say, of the businesses and how we wanted to operate. So it was pretty seamless, other than Yulu's the main figurehead in the business. Yeah, and he was well regarded in the community and everything. So it was a bit of a change, and and but we kept things going, and it was virtually unnoticed that you know we we lost, you know, yeah the the operator, I guess you'd say.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Right, because sometimes there could be you know a little hesitancy on clients because they're like, no, you know, we're used to we're used to talking to what was your your father? Y'all saying we're used to talking to John Sr. Like, do you know what you're doing? Um was there was there any of that?

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Or well we had we had a we had good support staff as far as um our sales staff goes. Um so they were dealing most like the customer coming, they were dealing with our sales staff mostly. And my dad would help out, but he was more just operating. Yeah, overseeing. So I mean he was, yeah, don't get me wrong, he had his customers that would only deal with him, but you know, he we made it work and everybody, you know, everybody we moved through it.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

So well that I mean it sounds like the what you guys had established in the community, you know, was it was and still is amazing just from you know, like you said, your focus on customer service. Um how do you ensure that your um it's your staff implements that customer service so that you know you're providing that across the board?

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Um we're we try to be conscientious of who we hire uh and who we promote within the company. Yeah. Um, you know, our our our main position is at the sales counter. So we actually have one of our one of our lead salesmen now, you know, he grew up in the in the town. Um when he I think when he was in high school, he came and asked my dad for a job, and he's like, Well, you're a little young yet, but he came back to us years later and he was actually working out in our lumberyard, and then we promoted him, and he's phenomenal with customers, you know, he's knowledgeable. So we always try to keep we we try to find people that fit with what you know we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Yes, yeah, yeah, and then that translates to them, you know, having providing a great experience for the clients. Correct. That's up, yeah, that's great. How do you source like the the lumber and all or um that you use?

SPEAKER_00 17:29

Uh sure. So there's local distributors. Okay. You know, we most of the material that we source is is distributed throughout Ohio. Okay. So um a lot of it will come from West Coast or but they're it's all it's all available locally, yeah. Um including our hardwood number. That's all Appalachian region, which is it's it's all domestic, so we don't have to worry about tariffs on that portion of it, but we are starting to see some increases with the tariffs and everything that's been going on this year. So we're starting to see that. We were a little concerned the beginning of the year during all this, but it never really affected us until just a couple weeks ago.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yeah, that's really good. Yeah, so we're out of a heavy building season right now, so maybe next year it'll settle down a little bit, but hard telling.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Right. So, okay, so there's seasons for building. Yeah, yeah. Is that more when the weather's nicer or yeah, it's regionally too.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

So um, you know, if you're you're a builder in the southern United States, you can go all year long. But being here in northeast Ohio, yeah, you can see it seasonally. Like we just got out of, well, we're still in deck season. We do a lot with decks. So Oh, are decks in the summer? Or mostly in the summer. Okay. For construction. Okay. And you know, we get we've had a nice fall, so it's it's extended. Hopefully it'll extend through November. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

So, but once you get into, especially you get in between those holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, it kind of drops off, and then you don't pick up again until is it spring or spring usually. So you kind of you muddle through the winter months sometimes, but you there's enough to keep things to keep things keep us busy.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

So what how does that work with the business? Because obviously, you know, we and we were talking about the ups and the downs, which is natural with any business, but even like you know, with this, where it, you know, the seasons do play a part in here in Ohio where it snows. So what do you kind of do you do you switch gears and focus on kind of um like I don't know, educating your clients to do some other things during the winter time, or how does that how does that work?

SPEAKER_00 19:43

So during the wintertime, that's when most of the work moves into the home. So instead of working on the exterior, people will be working on the interior. So that's when the trim and no work business will pick up.

SPEAKER_02 19:53

Oh, so that's a great balance.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

It's a good balance. Um, and so it keeps us active throughout the whole year.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's cool. Yeah, I you know, it's it's an area that um I don't know a lot about, but it that's it's really interesting that um, you know, and and I love how the two companies can kind of like, you know, kind of you know, bounce off of each other. Yes, yes. And the clients can stay the same, you can do your deck in the summer and then switch to us. You need some other work done in the inside of your house, you know, in the winter time.

SPEAKER_00 20:28

Yeah, so it does. It keeps us it keeps us busy throughout the year.

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Yeah, okay. Now, so um through the process, you know, that you've had you've been involved with the business, have you encountered any legal issues that came up? Um, or that you were like, oh, I wish that we had an attorney that could have helped us with this.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

I know there was a case that my dad, there's been a couple cases now that I think about it. Um which is totally normal with the business, especially being around towards our joys, too. Sure. I know my dad dealt with a few small things, you know, like small claims and things like that. Yes. Um the most recent one that I experienced, and it didn't turn into a legal issue, okay, but it was trending that way. We had a customer that bought some uh custom porch flooring from us. Okay. This was probably pushing 10 years ago. And we outsourced it, we bought it from a supplier, and it wasn't milled properly. So it wasn't it wasn't going together correctly. So there was some installation problems, customer was upset, and so you know, whenever there's a problem, we always try to rectify it as quickly as we can. Right, right. We always put the customer first in that situation. So we tried our best to remedy it and say, okay, we'll replace it, but we need a little time because it has to be known. Right. And he was like, No, I need this today or yesterday. Yes, so this carried on for a little while, and I our vendor was involved, and we could see it. So finally we just said, what do we gotta do here to make this go away? Oh, and we found out on our insurance policy, there was something I can't remember the name of it, but it was more or less like a nuisance policy. So if something happens where you just can't more or less say, hey, can you come? So it was more or less a financial yeah, you know, that was the only way that it was gonna make it. That was gonna make it work, and then kind of washed our hands with uh hands on it. He settled with it, and we were okay. But it was just one of those really stressful situations that didn't need to be stressful because it was not a huge job, but it was it was just like one of those things when you're getting emails on a Sunday afternoon and you like want to deal with it. Oh my gosh. But it was it was the simplest way to make it work. I I could see it trending towards neutral action, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:56

And then it gets even more complicated, and then you're like, oh man, now we're facing like going to court and all these. Um well, important reason why insurance is so important, and you know, some of the small businesses that don't have insurance, and it's it's like an afterthought for some people, like, oh, I'll get to that later, or it's not a big deal. You know, I treat all my clients great, they love me, they'll never do anything. But thank god you had insurance. And how did you find that that clause that was in there?

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Did um I think we talked to our our agent. I think we I think we had our attorney involved, and he said this might be able insurance might do something. Be able to do that. So then we spoke with our insurance agent, yes, and then he was able to find this and we were able to make it go away. I mean, lack of a better term. But I mean it maybe it could have been worse. Oh yeah. But yeah, it could have been. But we we we gotta we had it.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

So and there it goes back to the team, and even if um, you know, your attorney got involved to just offer suggestion why it's you know important to actually have an attorney on board with the small business that can, you know, even if you like just um quarterly or yearly consulting, just to be like, okay, are there any things I can think about or should think about with the business? But that's so that's great that you guys had that already in place and um were able to resolve that without it being too you know dramatic on the business. Yeah, so it was it could have been a lot worse, but yes, we got out there. Yes. Now, do you do um with your vendors? Do you do like contracts with your vendors at all?

SPEAKER_00 24:36

No, not necessarily. Okay. Um just because it's um you know, as needed basis, um so we don't sign a contract.

SPEAKER_02 24:44

But you do contracts with your clients when they're doing depends, like a lot of the commercial commercial projects we do, um, but residential not so much.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

Okay. Um same thing with our contractors, so that's usually between the contractor and the customer.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Yes, yeah, that makes sense. Which it's it's you know, that's good that there's because you want to differentiate that and make sure that the right person is contracting with the right person, so you're not like liable for it. You're like, I didn't have anything to do with that.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

We just sold you the parts, like yeah, yeah, and there are those instances where the contractor's customer will call us and say, What's going on? And we try to avoid that and just say, We're sourcing the material, you know, we don't. It's between you and your contract, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Look over whatever contract you have with them, and that'll dictate, you know. Um, yeah, that's but those are interesting, you know, differentiations that you do have to have. So that's good. Yes, that's good. Um now, so what about a poor? Have you had any poor decisions? Oh, never, I've never done any poor decisions. They've all been great.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

I I mean I can tell. Um, you know, I think poor decisions. I I I want to say when I was a young man and I came into the business out of college, you think you know it all. Oh god. So I thought I, you know, I think the struggle for me was just dealing with employees. And I was kind of in a management position, but I wasn't, and I was very young and had a lot of people that had seniority over me. So he was trying to find ways to give guidance, and um, I struggled at with that for a long time. And you know, the poor decision I think would be thinking that I was in charge of somebody, but I wasn't really. Not yet, anyway. Um, so I learned over the years, I think I I think I was trying to be too much of a boss. And so I learned over the years you have to be an ally to the people that work for you. Yeah. Because if if if you're not, it's never gonna work. I mean the people I I I firmly believe that people make the company, not the owner. Yes. Um so you know, I think I've I've changed my my tune on that over the years. I mean, being in a business for 26 years now, you know, it's it's like you learn. You learn and say, this this person is an asset, they're not a liability. Yeah, yeah. So I that that younger me was, you know, you know, brimstone and fire trying to get somebody to do what you want to think of. And then it's just like I I've learned that if you let your people figure out how to solve a problem, how to work through it, it's so much better.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

It is so much better because then they feel empowered, they feel like they're contributing, and they learn something too. And some oftentimes, I know it, you know, just as a business owner, the employees will teach me things. Right. You're like, oh, I didn't even think about that, but you figured it out in a different way than I would have, and we all we both learned something in the process. Correct. Oh, that's wonderful. So now your interactions with them are, I'm sure, totally different. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

And and you know, over the years, you get the right people in the place, the people that you want to be, and then it's and and that is a lot easier. I think um we lost a lot of people by attrition, but you know, when you bring in a new generation, there's always something you know that the millennials get this bad, bad rap of not being productive, but they do. I find it you gotta work with with with people to learn what makes them so um I think that's that's huge. It is, yeah. Being flexible, you gotta be flexible.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Yes, yes, because fortunately people are flexible with us. I know that I don't make all the right decisions, right? And I appreciate people being flexible with me, so I have to extend that courtesy, you know, to others and employees included. Yes, yeah. How much um how many staff do you have?

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Um, between the two companies, I believe there's 21 on the payroll.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Oh. That's an that's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

And do you guys do um like meetings and and all um, I don't know, yearly or anything to Yeah, um with our with our mill work um facility, we we meet every morning. It's just briefly. It's more of just like, hey, how's everybody doing? Unless there's something coming up. But um they usually we can usually I can usually set the schedule at the beginning of the week. It's it's it's on cruise control from there. Um we'll have uh sales staff meeting usually a couple times a quarter. And then we try to do something with lunches or or or meals every now and then. Oh, that's nice. So we that's important to us too. We need to do we need to do more of that. We don't do enough of it, but we need to do more.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Well, it's it it definitely sounds like there's a great culture that's created here, and people feel included, they feel like their voices are being heard, and they're contributing because they want that. Yes, and that's why it's been successful, yes, yes. And that's a great time to for us to cheer to um you know pouring to the you know the great decisions that and this great business or businesses that that you have. And um, thanks so much for sure you know being um part of Poor Decisions. It's an honor to be included. Yes. And we have a Esteban Martin, um Granasha Massara. Cheers. So great business decisions and great wine.