Pouur Decisions
Bold Stories of Business Journeys, Legal Tips and a Toast To Doing It Anyway
Hosted by Attorney Sharece Miller-Curry
Pouur Decisions
What It Really Takes to Build a Design Business
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In this episode of Pouur Decisions, Kristen Hannie-Ducey, founder of Ducey Designs, shares how a lifelong passion for interior design turned into a real business after getting laid off at the start of COVID. What started as side work became the push she needed to build something of her own.
The conversation goes beyond design and gets into what many business owners deal with behind the scenes: contracts, legal blind spots, hiring, insurance, taxes, process, and learning who is and is not the right client. Kristen talks honestly about the mistakes, lessons, and growing pains that came with building a company.
If you are a business owner, entrepreneur, or professional trying to grow something the right way, this is a grounded conversation about trusting your process, building the right team, and learning as you go.
Welcome back to Poor Decisions and I'm excited to be here with Kristen Henney and her company is Deucey Designs as you can see all the design um you know backgrounds and everything that we have going on here right here slab samples yes Alright so um inspiration for Ducey design like how did you get started with this business and why so why uh really my why is because well I've introdu design is all I ever wanted to do even as a young child when I was uh there's a story when I was in sixth grade that I was up on an eight-foot ladder like faux finishing my bedroom walls, Ralph Lauren, denim blue, because it was like the cool thing to do at that time, right now. No way, yeah, and my dad walked in and was like mortified. I'm in sixth grade, I have paint, I'm on a ladder and he's like, What are you doing? And did your mom know this is happening? You know, like okay, did your mom know what was happening? She did. She took me, yeah, she took me all the way that she wants, you know. So, um, so yes, they knew and and they always just really encouraged it. Um, and I'm really fortunate and blessed that I feel like I kind of came into life with a passion, yeah, with a specific passion. I think a lot of people search for that, and so I I do believe that I'm fortunate and lucky that I found that at an early age, which is a cool thing.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03Um, and really so my undergrad was in interior design um and went on to grad school to earn my MBA marketing, layering into it. Um, and I uh found myself working at a few or two different luxury design firms along my journey. Okay.
SPEAKER_02So Were they in Ohio or were they um, you know, another state?
SPEAKER_03They were in Ohio, yeah. They were in Ohio um and just gained some incredible experience, right? I kind of have this philosophy for young people just surround yourself by the best. Yeah, because the knowledge that you take from that is is profound and you will carry that on with you, you know. Yeah, so I I had some really great opportunities and then um fortunately, unfortunately, depending on the way you look at it now, um, I in uh I was actually laid off right in the very beginning of COVID. Okay, and so that actually propelled me to start the business. I was already doing some things on the side, you know, and and at that point I just said, alright, well, like this is let's give it a shot. Oh nice, you know, why not? And it ended up being the best thing, it ended up being the push I needed and the best thing I ever did. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_02So the internships that you did and all reinforced your love for it because sometimes people do an internship and they're like, oh gosh, no, I hate this. Yeah. But it just made you even more interested in doing the design.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, oh yeah, and like the schooling, you know, that I feel like everything is really, really truly learned and taught in in field, at the firms, at the studios, you know. Yes, yes you gain so much knowledge. So absolutely, I I loved it. I loved it. Um, and the name Duicy Design is actually Juicy is my maiden name. So I'm the youngest of three girls, and so you know, my parents didn't have that legacy in their kids to carry it on. So now at least we've got it in the business.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah, that's wonderful. Wonderful. But do you have any family members that help out with the business?
SPEAKER_03Um, not yet. I mean, my husband, you know, inadvertently did shift it in um in moments of like, I don't know what I'm doing here, you know. Um, and uh so but no, it's a hundred percent me. My oldest daughter has shown some interest. Oh, she's young, she's got a ways to go. So we'll see what what light, what guide, what direction, you know, she takes and what her path looks like.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, you know, it it you were at six paintings, yeah. Or wait, six grade sixth grade. Yeah. So um, you were young when you, you know, knew that, so she might um you never know. No, right?
SPEAKER_03She is my little creative bug. So we'll see. That would be amazing. I would love that. I would truly love that. And so now I think like my why behind why I do this is you do so many entrepreneurs, you look at the environments you were in and maybe saw some of the things that weren't working and say, how am I gonna do this better? Yeah, and so there is a culture in a lot of design firms that's unhealthy. Um, there's a lot of ego, there's a lot of um just negativity that I've seen and experienced. And so my goal has become giving myself and other creatives a healthy environment to be able to do what they love and give our clients what we love to do and and you know, and and give that love back to them and in a way that serves all of us, and then also empower women, young women to believe that truly they can do whatever they put their mind on out to do. So yes, absolutely. It's it's it's a beautiful thing.
SPEAKER_02It is, yes. Oh my gosh. Okay, so how does like okay, so you have a client? Yeah, how does the process work? Like, yes, do they physically come here and like pick through, you know, the different samples, or you know, is it do you do like a mood board or something like that and submit it to them? I mean, I'm sure technology has changed the way that things are done.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely, yeah. So that's that's a great question. Um, generally, what's happening, especially in interior architectural draw uh projects with new builds, renovations, we are first initially collecting all of their wants, dreams, okay, pictures, it's you know, conversations, and it's just like an information collecting time frame.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_03We take that and then we begin drawings um and and read 3D rendering. So those things we're doing in studio here um with the team, and then uh we're presenting that. That initial presentation is definitely generally done over Zoom. Okay, it's all it's all digital. Okay. Um, so that's the cool thing about what I do is we have projects, we did one in the Bahamas, we did one, we have in there many in Arizona going, we just installed one in Pennsylvania. So it's cool. Yeah, you worldwide. Yeah, I mean you get there, you need a measure, you need there's certain things, certain touch points throughout a project, but it's not like you need to be there to really do what we do. Um, and then the next the next step, once we've nailed down that floor plan and the preliminary renderings, then we go into the material selection process where we custom curate up two unique schemes for that client, and it's all based upon what they want for themselves. I always like to say I could have the same house, same property for 10 different families, and that house is going to be totally different. Meaning because everything we do is with the intention of how you live, of how to elevate your life. And if you have four kids, or if you're empty nesters, like those are so different places of life. Right. And so it the end result is going to be so different, you know. Um, so we procured two separate material schemes and finish and fixture packages.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_03And essentially they the they choose what they like the best. You know, they're both gorgeous. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01Right, right. The fixtures are gorgeous.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you can't go wrong with either one, like, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, but really they get the autonomy to make the final choice. And then from that point, we move into construction documentation, so we're elevating to to great detail all of any molding, trims, metal, specialty metal applications, custom cabinetries, fireplace design, all that good stuff. And then we're we're teaming with really uh talented builders, contractors, um, to essentially execute, executed in fields. So it's a process and we rely on on great trades to make it all happen. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, wow. What's the longest project you've ever worked on?
SPEAKER_03The longest? Probably from like in from us starting to construction, installed, and completion, probably a year and a half.
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And what's the what's like typical?
SPEAKER_03So I would say that if it's simply maybe a first floor renovation, okay, and we're doing that and and the furnishings package, because what I described to you prior was just the process with construction. Oh we also do all the furnishings as well and curate those packages. So if we're doing um the construction and um and the furnishings, um you could look at a design total design process of four months, okay, five months, okay. Um, and then assuming then after that, then you engage your contractor and then you execute it. So I think, you know, for people who are saying, hey, I'm if you're six months, if you're two quarters away from wanting to start a project, you need to be nailing down your design team, whether it be an architect, um, designer, whatnot, that's the time to engage it. You don't reach out to them two months before you want construction to start and say, Hey, you know, and we get those calls, you know, and I kind of I want to be able to help them because they're like, hey, we're scheduled, we're ready to rock, and I'm like, oh, I am uh I'm uncomfortable for you. Like, please pause, you know. So yeah, yeah. But new builds, of course. Oh there's there could be a year of planning and then a year of construction before you're installed, right? You know, and they're in there living and enjoying it.
SPEAKER_02So but it's exciting that you know you're seeing them go along through the process and then the excitement when they're in and then they're like, I love this space.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's the best. It's the it's the cherry on top. Yeah, like the in the final installs are just I mean, it's what it's all about. It's it's and and you know, they they it it's one of those processes they've invested a lot of money through a long period of time without really seeing the benefit of it until the end. Yeah, so it can start to get a little daunting and like at that, like, oh man, like you know, you you're looking for that validation, and so it's a lot of trust that they put in us. Um, and and uh so yes, having that to for us to enjoy, but of course, most importantly, that they've gotten the final result that they really want is right, right.
SPEAKER_02Well that's a given.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the why. Yeah, that's the way, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so during the process of of starting this, yeah, did you encounter like any legal aspects that came up? You know, like when you started your business. Um were there time, was there a time or times when you were like, oh man, I wish I I wish I had an attorney I could ask this question to? Or okay.
SPEAKER_03And that may have been more than one, I don't know. Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely. So I would say that when I first started, I I was, you know, that business owner that Googled my and like kind of put together film like, oh, I've seen this in the past, I'll take a little bit of that, a little bit of that, you know, it was like the the buffet menu, and I put it all together, and that was my agreement. And I mean I rolled with it for probably a lot long, I don't even want to admit how long, but um, and and it it it I part of it became as I realized that my clientele were really elevating, right? So as I realized that my clients were attorneys, they were you know a-level executives, like we're getting to a point here where I need to make sure that it's part of the per professionalism, it's part of them ensuring that they have confidence in me and I'm providing an agreement that reflects that, right? And then and then secondly, protect myself. Right, right, because I don't know what I don't know. I know I like to make things pretty, but I have no idea legally how to like make sure that I'm doing it in a way that will serve my business in the long term.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So I would say, you know, we're we were really fortunate rolling off that agreement. We didn't have any bombs, big, big bombs dropped, but there were little things that we dodged and we got lucky.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So now you have like an attorney-directed agreements and all. Yes. Oh, good, good. So important that, you know, because it's key with the businesses to, you know, make sure whatever those agreements are, are you because you're working with other vendors to um like, I don't know, work together for your clients.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so we yeah, we have agreements with our clients directly, but then we're also relying on other general contractors to actually execute our designs, um, which we're not in agreement with, we don't have an agreement with, but the client has it with the contractor. And then we do have vendors that we're buying furniture, furnishings from wholesale and procuring it. Um, and then, but at the end of the day, we are responsible for ensuring the final installation is you know what everybody is expecting it to be at the end of it all. So, yeah, there's a lot of hands and the pot.
SPEAKER_02Right, yeah, yeah. And everybody has to like be on the same page and understand this is the goal, mission, and these are the you know, objectives that we're looking to achieve, and um how the timeline, how it's gonna be performed, and and specific. So we want that documented. Yeah, so those agreements with hard you know, do see design or any other business is so important. And it's I always tell people, yes, there's a cost involved, but it's better to pay it up front than down the road if you find out like, oh my gosh, my agreement didn't cover that, and you know, and now you're trying to backtrack and and pay for things, and it's a lot more costly.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, yeah, I would agree with you. I that was like one of my big takeaways is having a solid agreement because and and having it reviewed annually because you know, laws change, um, and there's things as your business adapts. For example, we started traveling a lot more in the last two years or so, and so I kind of add a lingo in, like, okay, hey, here's our daily travel rate, or here's what we reimbursed for, but again, I'm ad hocing this, and I I have no, I don't know if this is solid, you know. And so there were things over the years that I had pulled into it, and oh, and it and you know, it didn't have any issues, but like I realized we gotta pause here because I'm really concerned. Something that my attorney did express and was totally valid is that making sure that for our property that our home like the homeowners are actually on the deed or who is on the deed of the property in which we are doing the work at. Yes. And if both husband or wife are on it, you know, both partners need to sign it. Yep. Because let's say they get a divorce, a divorce midway through, and Mr. doesn't keep the house and he doesn't want to pay for you know the hundred thousand dollars worth of furniture that you just procured for them. You are stuck, you know? Yes, so um that was pretty eye-opening. Um, I'm also finding that a lot of our properties, you know, they're they're interests. And who is actually legally able to sign for them?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yes, so many um intricate details that, yeah, I mean, and you're thinking, I'm just, you know.
SPEAKER_01Just making the world pretty, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Oh man. Yeah. Well, I'm so that's that's so important and good to hear that, you know, the you saw the need for, especially as your business changed to the elevation in, you know, like the documents that you need for your business, and then made sure that you have them. Right. So yeah, remember that and please take Kristen's advice and do the same thing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm trying to think. I oh, another big one that we learned was um having our ensuring that our subcontractors are carrying insurance.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I was real, I realized that at the end of the day, although we have most of my the general contractor has subscribed to them and they're in agreement directly with a homeowner, we are, you know, doing some things such as wall cover, I might be coordinating that and coordinating the install. Or there was a period of time where I had somebody that was like super temporary, that was a 1099, a college student who was helping me out for onesie two Z product project, and they weren't a W2.
SPEAKER_02But if they had driven a car into their the person's garage, oh yes, then you could be liable, even though and my insurance wouldn't cover. No, no, and then what's gonna so who's gonna pay for that damage, you know? Right. And is the is your employee or the independent contractor gonna say, Well, I was actually an employee, not an independent contractor. Right. So, you know, what agreement do you have with that total ninety nine person?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and like making sure are your people really 1099 or are they really meant to be a W-2? Because I'll tell you all of our interns immediately were like, okay, we've gotta we've gotta rethink things and realign, and and it makes me feel better. You know, I would rather walk the line of being safe and being on the righteous and being on the righteous side than have to worry about the lateral, you know, be above board.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I cannot say, you know, express that enough either. Is that you know, just being able to have those documents and just your legal coverage there and that peace of mind that it brings to I mean, of course, nothing is for but the more protection that you can have, the better.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And um just taking the time to get it done and paying, you know, an attorney to get it done, um, you you'll be you know so much better.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yes, yeah. I it it's it it gives me peace of mind. You know, you can't there's no amount of money that can pay for peace of the money. You know, peace. Right, you gotta do it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. So how how did you when you first started, how did you get your first clients? Was it because of already having like connections in the industry and do having done work for other people and then they referred, or were you out like boots on the ground, like actually, you know, marketing or something else?
SPEAKER_03That's uh yeah. So I would say in the beginning it was really more of just um I had been in the business and the industry so long, so within social or just seeing what people people were my community was able to see, oh man, look at this really cool install we just did in Chicago or whatever. And and and so it kind of grew, but then um, and then I would have honestly like my sister got it a whole hundred house in Scottsdale, so we helped her out with that, and you know, and then you know, so and then their friend wanted something, or and so it became um a colleague of my husband's and and it just became a very organic, natural thing. I I didn't set out with no business saying, I want to start a business today, it kind of found me, and I was already in the the schi the you know, in in it, and I just said, Okay, well, and it just worked, and at the all of a sudden I had like two projects that presented themselves and it was just organic, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I know you mentioned that you got laid off, and then um, so you were kind of sitting around during COVID, like, all right, let's just let's just do this.
SPEAKER_03Let's do it, yeah, let's do it. And it was the right time in my life, you know. I am a proud mama of two young girls, so I have a six-year-old and an eight-year-old, and that time Bella was less than a year old, and so it also gave me this really beautiful opportunity to be able to be here with her, yeah, and like I could work around naps, and I could, and then I could uh, you know, I could be in the business, but then flop to her as I needed to, or get coverage for a little bit, and then work until eight o'clock at night or nine o'clock if I needed to, you know. And I made it work for all of us, the whole family, and I I I just think as as crazy as it felt at times, and initially in the beginning, it was a huge blessing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And then so what were your first steps? Like, were you like, okay, I gotta get cards, I gotta get a website, or you know, what like what did you do first?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, because interior design is such a visually focused business, right? Like the first thing, I mean, the first thing somebody's gonna say is I want to hire an interior designer, you're gonna be like, let me see the inst let me see your Instagram and social and like website, right? Yeah, because unlike like an accountant or something, you know, like that's there's how do you fact check that? Like, no, right. So, um, I mean you do, but in other ways, so I knew how critical it was for me to start collecting content, pictures, you know. So anything I did, literally, I photographed, I photographed everything, even if it wasn't like the best project in the world, and I and I I got the website. Up that was that was number one, and not of course, like you know, had business licenses, all that taken out, um, had my resale license established, but yeah, then it became the website, and which leads into your logo, business, all the marketing components, right? You know, all that, all that collateral, and then in the beginning. Oh my gosh, it was such a blur. Uh yeah, right. You know how it is, yeah. Like you're like, wait, what did all the things I do? What do I do? Um, and yeah, I mean, the design agreement, a lot of setting up initial templates of here's our design presentation template, here's our construction documentation template, um, attempting to put our arms around processes. And I I get hit a point um within the first eight months or so where I was busy where I, you know, I think I can't do this alone. So then starting to bring on staff and and figuring out how you know, now we need a share, now we need the IT support and shared drive because people are working remotely and it just and now we need to engage a payroll company, so it you know it just grows. Yep, it grows. And it's scary at times, but it's also the best thing that you can ever do at the same time, too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I would never give this up.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. How did you find um the the staff and you know that you just have now or um that really were you know found that meshed well with your business and you and everything?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's yeah, good question. So I would say um I a lot of it is it's a small business. At the end of the world, it's a small industry.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_03And I I would say, again, going back to any young people, person starting out, your internship isn't just an internship. These people are going to be resources and contacts for you for life. Yeah. And remember that because there are other, even before I started my business, there were other people that I maybe enjoyed or didn't enjoy, or I felt like were really good team players. And I was like, I don't know if I would take that one. You know, it's like and and so I think that like not that your whole entire life is an interview, it's not, but you collect your team as you go every day in life, and you don't realize that. And so my team has come from prior places I've worked, um, as well as referrals of of my staff and who they've enjoyed working with, you know. So it again, it's been um, and then we have done, we've also teamed up with local colleges, our internships come from Kent State, OU, and the local community college to be able to plug in. We've got some that's so nice. Yeah, yeah. We had a lot of luck with interns and and them can turning into just design assistants and designers. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. That's did that evolve or were you always doing that with the interns?
SPEAKER_03Um, that evolved. Okay. That evolved. Yeah, I you know, it's like you realize that, oh man, I need we need more help. Yeah, we need help. We need feet on the ground.
SPEAKER_02Um and having done internships, you knew like it's so beneficial, like it's priceless to be like working hands-on, like not just in the in a classroom, like learning you know, the concepts and all, but like actually working with clients and understanding how to communicate and answer phones and and do all the other work.
SPEAKER_03So and I will say that you know, generally the people that I the interns that we've gotten out of um have been really hard workers, and because I think a lot of that's fueled by passion, yeah, it is an industry of passion. You know, we are not I know I can say an accountant, but I and I don't mean to be not because I love my accountant, but like, you know, it's not like they're we're we're getting CPAs, you know. We have people that are like walking into us and they are so excited to do this in life, you know. So it's just like uh there's a lot of good energy around it and behind it, and so when you you get these like really eager, excited, passionate students, and and and they're they want to learn.
SPEAKER_02It translates into their work, yeah. So like, oh yes, we want this, we'd love this um, you know, opportunity. Sure, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. It's been a beautiful thing and still learning and still growing, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Is has there been a favorite project that you did?
SPEAKER_03I would say two, yeah. So I'm gonna throw another one in there, but um yeah four favorites. Favorites, yeah. So I would say one was this awesome home or property that we just finished in in Pennsylvania, it's on Canyot Lake. Oh, and it's their this this um the the homeowners are awesome and they um it's a it's a secondary residence for them, and this is kind of their house too. Well, they their kids, they raised the kids when they were very young there, and they kept it and it's so but they come back to it um and enjoy kind of time away from their busy lives, okay. Um, and and it's a place a sense of like a retreat, you know, for them. Um, and so it was it was just you know, they really went for it and they did all the layers and they did all of the construction and the furnishings and and they did it in a way that served them and that they love using, and and so that was that was a really gorgeous property that we just finished up. And you know, they like I said they were awesome. You know, I like to say that we like we do like do f fun projects for fun people, right? Um, we're cool people, and and and we have had to pass on because cool, you know, just culturally socially, like it didn't work. Yes, yes, yes, yes, um, and yeah, they're just like really cool people, and I feel like our styles aligned that you know a totally totally different podcast would be like how to know which designer to choose or what's the right one for you, right? But like I you know, our styles aligned, and that's really important. Our communication aligned, um, and um, and so it was the contractor communication aligned and it just resulted in a things just flowed.
SPEAKER_02It flowed.
SPEAKER_03Okay, yep. Um, and then another one would be a Westwood Country Club in Rocky River. So we did, we had the honor to do their lobby space, um, two of the restaurant dining spaces, um, yes, like hominary corridor. So it was really um an and and that's uh a premier club on the west side of of Cleveland for us. So that was um really exciting to get that opportunity and be a part of that. Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I'm sure, so I mean your ideal client is that one where they're like, I want you to be, you know, design the entire house. Um sure, yeah, yeah. But you you'll do even smaller projects like just one room or something like that. If they're like, I want I you know, I need some inspiration for my um dining room or my living room or something.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yeah. So we'll do anywhere from a single powder room to um to complete new build. And so it it and and it varies now. You know, would we travel to Arizona for a powder room? Probably wouldn't make sense, you know, probably wouldn't make sense, you know. But you know, so there's some there's some some parameters there, of course. But yeah, I mean if it all makes sense, and part of it too is it's like I have clients that come and they say, hey, eventually we're gonna do it all, but like we need to break it up. Right now we're doing these two bathrooms, and then next spring we want to tackle the kitchen, and the next, and it's like, you know, the the beauty of not is is it's like there is continuity too for the client in the aesthetic, yeah, the experience, yeah, the process. They know you know, anytime you start anything new with somebody, it's a little nerve-wracking. Yeah, and with design and construction, it is a long relationship, like it's not just and it's intimate, they are learning. I mean, I know things about our clients that like you don't you don't know about your attorney or you don't know, you know, right because I'm in their home. Well, even your neighbors. Yes, totally. Yes, like uh, I'm sure so it it is um it is, I guess, a kind of a vulnerable place because clients are sharing a lot. Like, I know Alvin, I know where their class their classes are stored, I know what's in there, you know, like we we plan for all of it.
SPEAKER_02It's very, very intricate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you have to really get to know them and you know their needs and and how they function in life and where they store things and what they're storing and their kids and how they what their you know their routines are and how how can we make maybe things that can feel flustering or overwhelming seem a little bit easier by organizing things a little better. Yeah. So that's ex that yeah, I I never really looked at it that way, but that's that's cool.
SPEAKER_03It is, it is, yeah, it's a beautiful thing. Can help people, I would say just feel a little more efficient and like streamlined, like walk into a place and be like, ah, this is where I want. Like it's it's made for me, it's made it's cut for me, it fits me, it feels good. Like it's like having an outfit that was like tailored to you, you know? Yeah, you're like, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Every time I wear this, I know it looks like feel good. Yeah, yeah. Now, so with the clients, do you um I mean obviously you're selective because you want to make sure that they fit like with your business and all things. So, um how do you I mean have you had chan I know you said it before, but you've had to like sometimes just like tell a client no, I'm I'm sorry, like we're not a good fit.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yeah. So we I have, um, and and it could be for a multitude of reasons. It it took me a long time to be able to identify who we who we wouldn't work with. And I'll tell you because in the beginning, especially, you don't want to say no. Yeah, and and that's I think that's good because you you have to go through, you gotta kiss some frogs to realize what that looks like, you know, and what's not working, and how you can't, you know, deliver on some of the it on in in certain situations, and so um, yes, I have had some situations where like I just morally couldn't I yeah, I mean I'm I'm somebody that my character, my integrity, um those things are not just words to me, they are things to be lived by, and and I felt like by working with some of these people I would have to compromise some of them, or I'd have to like put myself in a on myself and my team in uncomfortable positions. So, yeah, so we and we have had like you know, in in one particular case I had contract signed, sealed, ready to go, retainer in hand, and it was like I'm sorry, I just can't, you know, we can't do that. Um I also have discovered that situations or projects where you're having to compromise maybe your process for something, so it could be like, hey, normally our process is that we um have two people working on this to fact check or to double check and make sure things are accurate. And if somebody's like, hey, can only one person do it? Maybe, maybe because they're trying to save on the design investment. I completely understand, but I have had you know situations where that ends up biting us because we can't, you know, I can insure a final product if I go through my process. Right. If I'm asked to compromise that, then I don't know, or I think the finished product. What the finished product, you know, and and so now that again I had a situation where I was eager to take a project. I the client was great, she also was an attorney, and I did have to tweak my process, pull back in certain areas, and really it didn't end well for for her or I. You know, both of us walked away feeling like just like not whole, and that nobody wants that. Like, you know, so I think know who you are, know what you're know. I know that if I do it this way, I can deliver. And if you're not confident that you can deliver, if you follow that, then like maybe that's not the right project. Yeah, maybe that's not the right project, right?
SPEAKER_02And it's okay, yeah, because they're um, you know, you this is what's meant for you, and you're doing things and you're in alignment with all, then the right people, the right clients are going to come to you, and even if you say, you know what, I'm gonna send you to someone else that I think you'd be better suited with, you're gonna get another client. Totally, you know, yeah, it all just flows.
SPEAKER_03There is enough piece of the pie for everybody.
SPEAKER_02There is, yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And um, and I think it just takes going through some of those. It takes going through the the the roadblocks to discover what is the right like it it's so part of our process now we do post mortem reviews on each project, and so we'll analyze, you know, the number of time it took, uh the quantity of time it took, and um and did that track, is that on track or off track with what we estimated the amount of time would be? Um, you know, what worked well, what didn't work well, where did we maybe have to write some time off because something happened? And then what can are we doing internally to address that? Is that a checklist? Is that a um a new note on our con on our in drawings? Right, you know, like is it that we need to make sure we have a specific walkthrough on every project? And again, is that walk through if our clients try and suggest that we don't need certain things, like we have to know our process, we have to follow it because then I know that we'll have happy people, happy finished products at the end.
SPEAKER_02Right, right, right, which is the goal, which is the goal.
SPEAKER_03That yeah, always the goal, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Now, how about in a poor decision that you encountered um but were able to overcome, and obviously, you know, you're successful, you're um still running this um, you know, amazing company, but yeah, what and and it can be one poor decision, or if there's a couple, but something that could share to just give some advice and insight to anybody that's watching or listening.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So I would say the one core decision I I had mentioned following your process. Like, yeah, I I I hit that. That's definitely one. Another one is as you start to um as you start to explore maybe different territories, different states, um, realizing that each state has their own um laws. Laws and nuances and nuances. Yes, yeah. Okay. So like there's some states that I can't, you know, you can't video record a Zoom call uh call. Um you I mean, even if you disclose it. So being you know, realizing that I I I and I think business owners, naturally, you're excited. You you want to go and like and do all the things and and it comes from a place of sincerity and enthusiasm and like and passion, which is a great thing. You just want to make sure that when you go into these things, you're um you're realizing and you're doing it to protect yourself and your company too. And yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we had a situation where we we went into a new jurisdiction where I thought I understood what the resale tax laws were, and come to find out that I I didn't. So after we had procured$250,000 worth of furnishings, I learned that the um that the taxes, it should have been taxed differently.
SPEAKER_02Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_03And or I thought I did. Um, and it came out that it was it was okay it was okay because there's a a certain threshold that you don't need in this particular state. Okay. There's a certain threshold that you don't need to collect on in the first year, okay, but then the next year you do. You know, so that something like that, you know, it that even helps me to think like, well, what CPA firm do I want to work with? The one that I worked with has a specialist in just tax, okay, um, tax law, and how that like, you know, how that all works. And had I been working with a smaller maybe mom and pop shop, CPA, who doesn't have those resources, you I wouldn't have had, I mean, I could make a call real quick and get an answer within 24 hours. I mean, don't get me wrong, it was a sleepless night. Um, I was terrified.
SPEAKER_01I'm sure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. But because I was sitting here and I'm like, oh my gosh, we didn't collect sales, you know, like and I'm gonna have to go back to the client, I'm gonna have to have, you know, we're gonna have to, yeah, this is gonna be a huge drop, and and they're gonna be furious, you know.
SPEAKER_01Right, like you should have known that before.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, totally, like, yeah, and I and I should have. That's you know, that's the reality. But um, it is helpful to have the resources in your back pocket where I could make a quick up pick up a phone call real quick and jump on the call, jump on a call and say, Hey, what do we do? Here's the position, what's the law? What do we do? And and being confident that I had a solid answer to fall back on, and it was okay. So that was good. Yeah, that was good, but it made me really grateful for you know, because when I first invested into our CPA, and it was an invest to me, it was like I made that jump from a a smaller to a larger firm, and I was like, man, this is this is definitely more of an investment. Well, you pay what you get what you pay for, right? Like there's a reason for that, and and I'm I'm discovering that along the way, that it's in times like that where you need good, you need the good people, so that way you can get the questions answered and right.
SPEAKER_02It's all about you know the team that you have that you're working with and being able to utilize everyone in you know in their capacity, right? Like, oh okay, CPA, you're gonna help me make sure that you know the taxes and the laws and everything are here too, and you know, and your staff, you know, you doing this, and your role in the business. So as long as everyone's in there on the right path of you know where they align with the best, then everything kind of just like works together. Right.
SPEAKER_03But yeah, yeah, that team is really important. So it's so important. Oh, it is, yeah, yeah. We can't I can't do this alone. You know, like when you think about your staff, you I I literally can't I can't do it alone. I am so grateful for my team, yeah, and they're so smart and they're so driven and they're so passionate, and so having that, you know, to be able to pour into each other and energize each other and lift each other up. And it's a small business, right? So it's not uncommon that like you know, my senior designer might all of a sudden be jumping on helping out with developing our social media like posters and might end up you know influencing so many different aspects of the business. So um it's it's fun, but wear some different hats sometimes. Oh yeah, but it's like it's a beautiful thing.
SPEAKER_02Yes, oh well, that is a great area to do a toast to this amazing business and all the lessons learned and that you've overcome and and just the um you know progression and I'm sure the exciting future that you have, you know, coming up. So thank you.
SPEAKER_03Thank you for for having me. I'm I'm happy to I was excited to be a part of them. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02So we'll pour a Kanache and Sarah to, you know, I'm not gonna do that.