She Got Fired While Pregnant… and Built the Business She Actually Wanted

What do you do when you lose your job… right when life is about to change? 

In this episode of Pouur Decisions, Jen Prochaska shares how getting fired while pregnant forced her into entrepreneurship and ultimately led her to build a business that actually fits her life. What felt like a setback turned into clarity through relationships, networking, and real conversations. 

This isn’t a surface-level business conversation. We get into what actually drives growth for small business owners. Why most entrepreneurs struggle with marketing. Why your website probably isn’t the real problem. And how unclear messaging keeps you from attracting the right clients. 

If you’re trying to grow a business, find better clients, or make smarter decisions about your marketing, this is a conversation that will hit close to home.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to Poor Decisions. And today I'm so excited to have Jen Prahaska. And she's with The Right Difference. So we're gonna learn a lot about her company and how she started and everything. And so let's get started. That's good. Okay. So how did you make the leap to starting The Right Difference?

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Yeah. I didn't make the leap so much as I was forced into leaping. I was let go from a job. Yeah. But I do really think that it was the universe doing for me what I couldn't do for myself. Yes. I had been wanting to go out on my own. But that's a great perspective too. It is, yeah. Well, so I had been wanting to go out on my own, but I found this agency job and it seemed like such a great step in my career. Okay. Um, as a copywriter. It was a senior copywriter. It was working for really big name brands. I thought I was gonna learn a lot, and I did, but the environment was not um that conducive to what you wanted to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

No, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

It was it was a bit toxic, yes. Um, and it was not, it was just was not conducive to creativity, etc. Um and I was brought in or I was told that I was brought in to help change the atmosphere, and change is very hard, and they were not really receptive to okay, okay. So, but meanwhile, I got pregnant, and I I could tell that something was happening and people were being let go, long time employees were being let go. There was some crazy stuff going on. But I was pregnant and they didn't know this, and I said to my husband, I'm like, you know, something I feel like something bad is gonna happen. Yeah, yeah, but I don't we're just gonna ride it out because you know, and I'm I'm a great employee, right? I mean, I I come in, I want to do my work, I want to do more, and I I did all the things. Uh but meanwhile, because I could tell that something was shifting and I wasn't sure, I had already started reaching out to my network just you know to put feelers out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

And when you say network, these are people that you're already working with, or are you talking about like like LinkedIn? Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah, LinkedIn is a value if you're thinking about making the leap, LinkedIn is such a valuable tool. Um, you know, just checking in with people and seeing where they were at and what they were doing. Uh I didn't necessarily go out there and be like, hey, I might be going out on my own. Do you need something? Right. You know, it's just reacquainting. Yeah. So kind of putting feelers out just to see.

unknown 2:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

And I, as a creative person, designers, um, copywriters, we almost always freelance, even when we have our front-time job. It's just something we do. So I still had some freelance clients, and I'm always very upfront about that. And one of them had said to me, talk about divine. One of them had said to me, you know, hey, if you ever find yourself available for more work, you know, call me first. Because he he has his own agency in the Fairland, Ohio area. He was like, you know, I can always use you, right? And I and this was a man that I had learned so much about brand strategy, et cetera. Um, and as a copywriter, understanding the holistic picture of branding is essential too. So I was like, okay. So anyway, long story short, they did let me go on a Friday. And I always say I got let go on a Friday, and I went to work on Monday because I I had started putting my name out there. Right. Right. And I called the the owner of the agency and I said, guess what? I'm available. And it's like, well, 9 a.m. Come on in, right? Um, the side note to this whole thing is that Friday, um, it was April 20th, 2018. Okay. And I know that date because I also had an ultrasound for my now child. Oh. And it was the first pregnancy, the first ultrasound in four where everything was okay. I had had through losses. Oh man. So what after so I got let go in the morning, had the ultrasound in the afternoon, early afternoon, and they were like, everything's fine. And I just I can still remember this overwhelming feeling of everything's gonna be okay. Yeah, the baby's okay. Yeah, yeah. And now that baby is a crazy six-year-old running around, right? So, like everything was okay. Right, right. So that's a wonderful story. It is now, yeah. I will say at the time I was like, oh my god, I'm pregnant and jobless, right? But they, I mean, I I got a severance package, of course, you can do unemployment. I am fortunate. My husband carried some health insurance, and we were able to do that. So, but really it was just okay, guys, I am freelance copywriting. You know, what do you got? But those conversations, I you know, even in talking with one of my best friends, she was like, you know, my sister-in-law owns a marketing agency. And I was like, What don't had no idea?

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Well, and you probably weren't asking those questions at the time because it wasn't really necessary in a sense because you weren't thinking, you know, in the freelance capacity, you know, with your own business. So, okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Yeah, and then she hired me almost immediately, and I worked with her and again learned more from her. So yeah, uh, you know, I tell people all the time, I'm like, it's just conversation.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

It is, yeah, it is saying, hey, here's what's going on. This is what I do, I can provide, this is how I can help you. I always feel like the best way with business is if you can show how you can help someone else, and then they will gladly, you know, utilize you and pay you to be able to, because they, you know, you're you're you're helping them. Um okay, so how does the how do you um as the right difference, how does your company help people, other businesses?

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Yeah, what do you so when I first started, I wrote all the things, right? Emails, websites, et cetera. But my experience has really been in the website realm. And in order to write an effective website, you really have to have solid, what we call brand foundational messages. So things like in the industry, we call them your brand promise, right? Or your unique value proposition or unique selling proposition. Um, all of these kinds of messages. So as I went along in my business and it evolved, I realized how many people came to me and they're like, oh, my website's a mess, or my website sucks, or my business has evolved beyond what my website makes it look like I do. And what they and they need the new website, but what they really need is to back up and say, okay, let's look at your business as a whole. And I asked the exact question that you just did, right? How do you help people? Um, and then more than that, what are the emotions that you bring to the table? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

Because people buy on emotions. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

So for me, my you know, my guiding force is that I empower small businesses through their website and foundational brand messages. So I help clarify what not only what it is you do, but who really truly needs your services and is willing and able to purchase them. And why do you do that? Why does your brand exist? And that's different than my personal why. Right. Right? I mean, my personal why is one thing. I I stay in business for myself, um, you know, partially because uh I the flexibility of schedule. You know, I have two children now, 11 and 6, and somebody six, sick, you know, I can go to school and get fit. Yeah, um, and because helping microbusinesses and solopreneurs put food on their table fulfills me, speaks to my soul. So that's why I do it. But my brand, right, it does it because it really wants to empower those people. Yeah. Yeah. And to empower means that not only am I going to show you why and how, but I'm going to give you the tools and the skills to actually go forth in the marketing world and travel, if you will. Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

So do you um so I assume you're working with startups that are just like creating the website all the way to ones that have been around for a while and they just need to revamp their website, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yes, 100%. So I start out with um established businesses. Okay. Because usually what happens in the life cycle of a business the size of ours, I call them their micro businesses or solopreneurs, is we go out and we do all the things. Right. Right. Just like I just said. I mean, because you gotta pay your bills, you gotta put money out, you know, I put it on the table. It's like people would be like, Do you write emails? I'm like, sure do. Do you write sure do, right? Yes, yes. And then, but as we go along, we realize, hey, I'm not really good at doing this or this part lights me up. But meanwhile, what happens is that website doesn't change.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

So so many people come to me and they're embarrassed and ashamed. They're like, Don't look at my website, it's horrible. And I'm like, Well, of course it is. You've evolved past it. Yeah. And they're like, oh, so this is normal? I'm like, yes, this is absolutely big corporations, Fortune 5 Fighter corporations eventually evolved past. They just have the internal teams that to keep up. It's updated, right, right. And when you have millions, although it doesn't always happen. Um, there have been some controversial brand rebrands lately that didn't go so well.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

So my point is that um, so yeah, so that's I come in and I clarify everything. Okay, who all the things that we just talked about? Startups, I can I I absolutely do work with startups. It's the same process. The difference is by the time that startup and I have formulated a message, two months later, they don't use it anymore because they're still in that epilogue. There's no transitioning and changing or updating. Okay. So which is fine. Right. I mean, as long as they understand, as long as you know, I give them what they need. So yes. Um, and then I've recently, and this was actually one of the poor decisions. Do you want me to, this was a poor decision I made. Do you want me to go into that? Sure, yeah. Let's talk about your poor decision. So when I first started, I said to my community, you know, my supporters, my other copywriters, I said, I really want to work with the solopreneur. Okay. And they were like, Don't do it. There's no money, the education is too high, don't do it. I mean, across the board, they were like, Don't do it. You don't want to do that. So I listened and I worked with established small businesses. Okay. Um, everything happens for a reason, it all worked out. It does. Yeah, it does. Okay. But seven years later, I've come back to that solopreneur because the problem is still there. The soul, you know, people like um, you know, you and I, the size of you and I and many of our community members, um, especially you, like, so your zone of genius is in the legal realm, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Not marketing. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

And to um to to have to learn not only how to service your customers with what you know, but then learn how to market your business is very overwhelming and stressful and chaotic. Yes, yes. And I have talked to many solopreneurs who um either are burning out very quickly creating social media content when maybe they don't even need to, but they are because they think. Yeah. Or worse, um, many have paid for courses and memberships that have not helped help at all.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Just because you have marketed your own business doesn't mean that you have created a repeatable framework that's gonna work for other people. That's true. The I said the influencer.

SPEAKER_00 11:27

That that is true. So and you don't know how well someone's gonna be able to, you know, like market your brand until you've literally used them, and then you find out, oh, this was excellent, or it's like, oh, this this is, you know, this isn't working.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Right. Meanwhile, the check was in the mail. Yeah, like oh yeah, cards be charged. Yeah. So I recently circled back and I've created some some done for you services, but also I'm working on creating a do-it-yourself package where I teach people, okay, here's what I'm talking about, here's what brand foundational messages really are. Here's how to formulate them, understand they're gonna evolve, but at least you're starting. I mean, you don't build a house without building a foundation. No because your bedroom's gonna sink. Right. Right? And a novice is gonna go, my God, I need a new bedroom. An expert's gonna go, actually, you need the foundation. Right. So that's what I'm bringing to the table there. So it you know, it all it all comes back around.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

It does. And it seven years ago it wasn't timing, right? But now it is. And there's uh there are so many people that are starting businesses now. So there's prime opportunity to still, you know, tap into that market and um and you know, help them. So yeah, I hope so.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

I'm a big believer in empowering people through business in order to have a say and have a voice. Yeah, yeah. And to be able to put your, you know, make enough money to put food on your table, roof over your head, and take care of your kids. Like I don't that can't be underestimated. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

So, okay, so how when you uh when you first, you know, said, all right, this is what I'm gonna do, and then you had some context um that you were able to tap into to you know to get started and all, how did you build even more clientele? What was like the process?

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I leveraged my network first and foremost, and because I come from the ad agency world, I tapped into the agencies. So three agencies hired me to do their overflow copywriting, um, including my my friend's sister-in-law. Okay, so I could build my portfolio and get my name out there. Um, my first direct to me client came through an in-person networking event. She's actually still with me.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

That's awesome. Yeah. But networking events are priceless.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

So I always say I built my business on agency work, but ex but grew my business on networking.

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Okay. So in-person, you know, just talking one-on-one and shaking. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Exchanging business commerce and following up.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Um, yeah. Yeah. That that that's such great advice because I think that's one area that is really overlooked with a lot of business owners. And I can even, um, you know, just from a legal aspect, when I go to a lot of networking events, I don't I don't see a lot of other um attorneys there at all. So it's prime opportunity for me, you know, to be able to share, especially working with other with small businesses and all. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Yeah, and we are in the age of distrust right now.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Between misinformation. Yes. And this was before, you know, the rise of the influencer that we just talked about. And then AI comes on the scene. You know, and before we started taping, we were talking about, I mean, AI is not accurate, it lies. It literally will lie to you. Yes. So yes, it will. Don't believe it all. No, don't believe it all. Right. So, and what you know, what's happening externally within like nobody believes anything. And it's infiltrating even our most sacred places, like healthcare. So when I meet somebody and I shake their hands and they can talk to me and look me in the eye, they get to decide is Jen somebody that I feel a connection with. And if not, that's cool. Right. There's another writer over there, or there's another marketer. Like you have to feel much like legal. I need to be able to trust you and to be able to tell you you my thoughts and feelings. Yes. So that you can best serve me. Absolutely. And if that personal connection isn't there, then great. Here's somebody else you might want to meet. Yes. But when it is there, they are like, yes. It's magical. Yes. Yes. Right. I mean, I get paid for my services and I empower somebody else to go out and get paid. For their like it's all good. And then when somebody's happy, they tell somebody else about you.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

Yes. And the and the referrals the best way of, you know, marketing because that person trusts that person. So then they're gonna reach out to you. It's not just like some ad out there that they're hoping and praying. Oh, I hope you know, I think this person would be beneficial, but they they know because they trust that friend that, yeah, okay, if you recommend Jen, then I'm gonna go with her too.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Yeah, and that's how the sales call goes. I mean, 15 minutes later, I've got a signed contract and a deposit. Yeah. Right? And it's it's a beautiful thing. So I talk to a lot of, especially copywriters. I again, a lot of creative people. I would imagine in the legal field, most people are extroverted.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Because you have to be in front. It will depend on what you're doing. It depends, just because there's litigation, which obviously, yes, very you know, extroverted. But then there's a lot of transactional work, civil and criminal, that's just you know, a lot more civil, but it's transactional, so you don't have to talk to people. Okay. You're just writing, researching, things like that. So the same is true in marketing.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

I mean, a lot of copywriters, especially, are introverts, right? They just want to sit and write. Um, so to go out and that work is a challenge. Otherwise, I'm like, where's the party? Let's go to my challenge. Is going back and sitting and focusing on the writing. I know, I know. Yeah, that's me too. When I tell a lot of people, I'm like, you know, you can't sit behind a desk and expect. And and so many of us are digital marketers, so we do all the things, but but a lot of that is meant to support what is happening elsewhere, right? So the email list, are they important? Absolutely. Can you get business from a hundred percent? I mean, email is still the number one digital tactic. Yeah. Um, most successful digital tactic to bring in business. Uh, I would say, at least in my experience, going out and meeting people has built my email list. Right. I just got an email today. I sent out my email like I usually do, and I I fill it with a lot of value because a lot of people can't afford my services yet. I still want them to know hey, here's the truth. And a former client that I haven't engaged with in probably three years said, Your email is really timely. I have a job and I was wondering if you were interested. I was like, Oh, you never know. Yeah, absolutely. Um but going out and meeting people, giving workshops, you know, and and talking to my ideal client.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

And now with the workshops, are these ones that you're hosting on your own, or are these the workshops that someone else is is hosting and they've asked you to to um yeah, you know, conduct the workshop?

SPEAKER_01 18:47

That's the they've asked me, um, or I've paid. There are many opportunities to pay to host to run a workshop. Um, but I that's my next thing. I'm like, I'm gonna host these myself, right? Like I've made a name for myself. There's enough people who had seen me or can recommend me. Um, so that's my next step, yeah. But I wouldn't be comfortable doing that if I hadn't been in a room full of women, especially because there's a lot of women networking groups here at City Blend as NL. There are. You know, if I wasn't standing in front of them, I and talking to them and hearing their questions and seeing where I've lost them. I I like to read the realm.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

So if I'm talking to you and you're like, I don't know what the heck she's talking about, like I can adjust, right? So or if I or if I see the light bulbs go off, I'm like, yes, this is that.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

So I can take all of that now and create webinars, videos, etc., with the the most successful content.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

That's awesome. And it's a way to leverage, you know, the the information that you have and um to monetize it to end while you're helping people, um, just because it doesn't have to be like this this magical idea or something like that, you know. It's really just you can think about using the skills that you already have to, you know, provide for other people and also be able to generate income from that.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yeah, I think that's a great point because there is this thing called the curse of knowledge. Have you ever heard of it? It's actually a psychological phenomenon. We know too much. Oh, yeah. Because we know it, it's intrinsic, right? I mean, you could probably rattle off something that you think is so basic law. Maybe you learned it your first year of law school, and I'd be like, oh my God, what is she talking about? Right? Right. So a lot of people let that do what you just said. They're like, well, everybody knows this. I have one client, she's like, Well, doesn't everybody know that? I'm like, nobody knows that. She's a trained therapist. I'm like, how would we know that? Right. It's so basic in our world. And even my stuff, again, reading the room has helped because I'll say something and I see the eyes glaze over it. I'm like, Do you all know what blogging is? And not everybody does. And not everybody knows. Yes, you're already in that marketing world, so you know, right? Because you're looking to do it clearly. Um, I'll say, Well, do you know what a blog article is? And they'll say, No. They're like, Okay, you know, when you go on the internet, you search something and you find an article. Yeah, of course, that potentially is a blog article. And they're like, Right. Oh, but just that what is so basic to those of us who are promoting ourselves to the very new solopreneur who is perhaps a massage therapist or um, you know, works in the energy practitioners are a really big one right now. But you know, no, but they could explain the energy concepts way over our head. So it's just it's tapping into that that very what we think is basic and starting there. I would never know that if I didn't get out and talk to people. Great. How would I know that? You wouldn't. You wouldn't or you risk starting too soon if your audience is here and you're starting over here. Right. Like that's part of of marketing. Is what does your audience know?

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Yeah. Yeah. Mmm.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

That's a rabbit back. Forever. Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Now, how do you um like how how do you how did you approach like the whole marketing, I guess from the beginning, like understanding, you know, where where to meet your clients, where like what to provide for them. Um, I mean, obviously I know that you were talking about, you know, networking, you find out more information, but when you were first starting, how did you know? Was it just you're like, I think this, these are pay point areas, or you know, what a lot of it was trial and error.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

I just said, uh, you know, I'm a copywriter. Do you need a copywriter? Okay. Which is a commodity position to be in. But because again, I I've been doing this for 20 years, right? So I had a strong enough network built up for the brand. So here's the challenge I think in today's world. I did work for agencies, I worked in-house, and I went back and got an advanced degree. So I do have this wealth of knowledge. Yeah. I am meeting a lot of solopreneurs who don't have that, who've never worked for somebody else and who want to go out on their own. So there are pros and cons to that. Um, I'm a firm believer in some experience in that corporate world. It'd be helpful. Um, and I have a a a woman that I work with who's a social media manager, she has some corporate, but real fast realized it wasn't for her and went out on her own. So then the onus is on her, and she is succeeding in this to go out and educate herself. Right. So she does. Right. Right. So constantly learning, putting yourself in spaces with people who are other who are also learning. So, for instance, if I was a brand new copywriter and had no experience, you know, getting in rooms with other copywriters. There are a ton of masterminds out there, there are a ton of networking, you know, pay, word-to-pay get on. Yeah. Yeah. Groups out there, talk to other people and and allow that vulnerability. Like, I don't like what I'm doing here. Can you help me? Oh, you know, people think they gotta come in and be all polished. And I I've had the greatest success going, I don't know what the heck I'm doing. Yeah. Can you help me? I mean, you know, and I'm in a place now where I don't even attempt certain work. I bring in experts, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Well, and that's that's the leveraging too that I think with small businesses um can become like really difficult as to when when to know when you can bring on additional support. Because you know, like the team that you use is I mean, it can make or break your business, and um just having a team so that you're not doing everything yourself, um, um in a most of the time will enable you to be able to do more and make more. But um, yeah, that's that that's a whole kind of like you know, tricky situation in a sense, because people are like, I want, you know, an assistant, I want people to do this, and um so I want to do my marketing and someone to do my website, but right now I'm starting out, I can't afford it. Or they've been in it for so long and they're like, Well, but I always have done it. What you know, I don't need to hire anybody.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Yeah, it's a chicken and the egg, right? I mean, at some point you need to hire somebody to make more money, but you need money to pay somebody. Right, right, yeah, right. For sure. And that's why I'm so passionate about teaching solopreneur about basic marketing. Yeah. Um, or I I shouldn't say basic, I should say the fundamentals of marketing because I don't want them to waste their time there, right? So everybody is like, oh, I don't want to do TikTok. I'm like, well, how do you know that you need to do TikTok? They're like, well, everybody's doing TikTok. And I was like, let's talk about your ideal client, right? Who is more most likely to use your services? Well, everybody can use my services.

SPEAKER_02 26:01

No, they can't.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

I mean, in theory, everybody can use a copywriter, right? Not if you think AI is gonna write your social media copy and be successful. Yeah, if that is a belief system that you have, yeah. You don't eat not my ideal client. I'm not gonna spin my wheels trying to convince you my services. Route. Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna go after the people who already believe that a human copywriter is going to bring them value. Yeah. Now I just have to convince them that I am the copywriter.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

That's a much different approach. It is, it is. And the other thing is, you know, this whole the DIY thing. If somebody wants to DIY everything, that's great. Yeah. Go and do that. Right. Um and now I can service those people. I can say, great, you're gonna DIY. Let me teach you step by step. Here's where you start. Right. And I'm gonna give you workshops, and I have a signature package, my done for you package, it's called the message passport.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

In order to travel the world, you need something that says, I am exactly who I say I am, and I'm unique. And that is the passport. The same is true in marketing. Yeah. You need messages that say that you are exactly who you say you are, and that you are unique. So my message passport involves, you know, copywriting is as much science as it is our I interview your clients, I do what's called message mining, I create your ideal avatar, all these things. That is my done for you package, and it's ideally ideal for established businesses. Because when they're done, they can hand it to the contractor that they've hired to do their social media. Right. For the new person, as we talked about in the beginning, they're not ready for all that. They don't have any clients for me to interview. They don't know what the hell they're doing yet. Who does? None of us do. But I cannot so what I'm going to do though is teach the process so that when they try to decide, okay, how am I going to get clients? Okay, let's back up. Who what service do you offer and who needs it? What problems are they facing? And it's not always problems, what what needs? Nobody needs a Tiffany watch, right? But they desire one. So I need sorry. They desire this, right? Right. Why? Then you start to dig into, you know, is it a quality thing, a status? What else do they desire in life? Who are they? Demographics are important in certain industries. Certainly, if you were um for healthcare, there are some things that are gender specific. Right. Right. Right. Sometimes there's age specific. Right. But outside of that, demographics don't really matter to most of us. So we have to go into what's called psychographics. What are their beliefs? Psychographics. I love that. Okay. Okay. So for you, for instance, if somebody does not respect the law, yeah, nor care about doing things above board, they are not gonna want your services, are they?

unknown 29:07

No.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

So from uh and we we take that for granted, but that we we know plenty of people who don't do things right way, right? Right. So we have to say, okay, well, my ideal client is someone who wants to make sure that their butts are covered, that all the paperwork is filed, that their side is clean.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

So we start, okay, so that is an attribute. Where do those people hang out? Whether it's on the internet or in the real world. Depending on your price point, right? Do you want to sell something for a thousand dollars or for 10? That's a business decision. Once you've made that business decision, I can then say, okay, well, if you're selling for the thousand, there is an affluency that we need there, whether it's an individual income or a business revenue. So we start to talk about all of those things and then get this composite of who your ideal client is. Now we can say, is TikTok the place where you need to be? Is Instagram is social media even the place where you may not even need to be on there. Maybe it's just if your clients are C-suite level executives, yeah, yeah, and they're purchasing. Now, if their assistants are purchasing, that's different. Right? But like, right, you may be better off sponsoring a golf tournament that they visit every year than posting on social media every day. And that's just a super general exactly.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

No, but it it gives a good framework as to why, you know, that analysis is important. Yeah. Because you don't have to just assume that, oh, I have to do it this way because this is what everybody's doing, or this is just, you know, how you get business. And it's like, maybe, maybe not. Yeah. Um, so that's that's really intuitive and that's helpful. Gosh, that's so helpful.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

And it's people get overwhelmed when I start because I'll just and they get really overwhelmed. Or they're like, well, everybody needs me. And I'm like, not everybody needs you.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

No.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

And not everybody wants you. Maybe they do need you, but not everybody's gonna want you.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

And the thought too is that there's so many people in this world, you don't I think some people may get scared, like, well, everybody has to need me because there's not enough for everybody else to go, you know, to go around. It's like there's enough to go around, and there's so many people on this planet. If you narrow down, you know, who your target market is, you will get the clients you need that are fitted for you, and you'll be able to make, you know, the money that you want and all you don't have to open it up to everybody.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

No, and in fact, there's a saying in marketing when you're talking to everybody, you're talking to nobody. I mean, you know, and even in I guess the best what what like what I say to people, when you're having a conversation with somebody, you know, especially and I think women, I think as women, we do this naturally, right? We say one or two things, and you can tell, like if someone's like, Oh my god, me too. Like, yeah, immediately there is that connection. Yeah. And whether we realize it or not, what's happening in our brain is we are starting to trust. Right now, not with our lives, because we've just met this person. But there, but over time, the more interactions you have with somebody, yeah, the more we it's called know, like, and trust them. Once you meet them, you know them. When you start to connect, you like and then you trust. And really, in the age of distrust, yeah, that trust is harder to come by, so it's a longer buying cycle. Um, potentially. Right. Right. Which is why I think the in-person thing makes all the difference. Because you can decide real quick whether you know like it cost me. Right. I mean within seconds.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

Yes. Because your gut will tell you. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Um, for sure. So, but you know, but if you if you don't know your audience, you risk you run the risk of being tone-deaf. If you're selling a thousand dollar package to people who are struggling to pay their mortgage, you are tone-deaf. There's a disconnect. Yeah. And that backlash is swift and it is brand damaging because of social media.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Yes. Yes. Right? Yes. I mean, you make one little mistake and I don't know if that's the word anymore, but you're canceled, you know, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

Oh, yeah. Fast. Absolutely. And for the larger corporations, they can throw big bucks at it and come back potentially. Us little people. It can be all I need is for somebody to say, don't use that person. I had a bad experience, and then they're out. For right or wrong. But you were saying before, because when somebody refers, right, it's I'm not taking you right. It's there's an immediate trust. Well, the same is true in reverse, probably more strongly. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

So if they put that on social media, Google reviews, things like that, you have to know.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

No, please. Right. Because yeah, because I don't have money to just throw around, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:53

No, no. So yeah. Now, how did you manage? Um, because a lot of people watching, listening, um, have kids and you, you, you know, obviously you started, you know, with the, you know, being pregnant and everything, so this was all happening kind of simultaneously. How were you able to, you know, start your business, run it, and manage, you know, having a family? It's not easy. Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

Yeah, and I I mean, I'm married, so there's that. That certainly helps having a partner. Um, COVID hit when my little one was, you know, 18 months old. So then I had, you know, a five-year-old and a baby at home, and all of a sudden COVID hits. Um, and I literally overnight lost $40,000 in business. Stuff is just canceled. The phone call was, hey, marketing budgets are frozen, right? Yes. And I know several people who get happening too. Yeah. Um I think the answer is different for everybody. I will say this. Um, one, my husband is very helpful. Um, my parents are still alive and close to me, and they are very helpful.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

So without the three dum, yeah, I would not be able to do anything. Um, the other thing is I read a productivity book by um a famous productivity guru. He's a man, and he was like, you know, take take your week and design your ideal week. And it was wake up at 5 a.m., go for a run, come home and shower, take a nap in the middle of the day. And I'm reading this, and I'm like, Where is do the laundry, go to the grocery store, cook dinner, cook dinner? And I was like, oh, his wife is doing all of those things. And I realized I'm chatter stereotyping, but that's and she had five kids, so she was working. I mean, oh yes. But I was like, she was busy, yeah. I need me a wife, right? Um, so my first outsource was actually house cleaners. That makes all the difference. But I had to really change my I can clean my own house, thank you very much. Like I and the mindset for me, right? Both my parents' parents are entrepreneurs, both my parents work very hard. The idea that I was gonna hire somebody to clean my house when I could do that myself, like I'm not above, I love cleaning actually. Oh wow. So the mindset was very sh um I had to shift it. Yeah, it wasn't that I couldn't do it, it wasn't I enjoy doing it. But with two little ones trying to run a full-time business and a spouse who works and runs a full-time business, something's gotta give. Yeah, yeah. So now I have two people come in twice a month. I'm still cleaning all the time, but you know, twice a month to do the whole house. And they spent two people spend two hours for $100, $120. If I were to do that, that would be one person, four hours.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Oh my gosh, minimum.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

And my hourly rate is $100. So that's $400. So now when you when I start to look at it economically, yeah, to circle back to when do you bring somebody on? Right? Like it is cheaper for me to pay somebody $120 and earn my $400. Right. So that was my first outsource, and that's been a godsend.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Just having the whole house cleaned at once. Yeah. Because that opened up your time and everything to be able to do other things and and your house stays clean, you know, you're not relative to it.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

I mean, the floors are getting washed. They weren't getting washed before. Yeah, right. Exactly. And I'm you know, I'm still doing my things, but like it that when I did that, I saw the value. Yeah. Because we expect women to do it all. Oh, and I need to work out and self-care and all these other things, you know. Meanwhile, no matter what you do, someone's telling you you're doing it wrong. So that's why I say I think that decision is personal. I know plenty of women who have children who choose to work part-time. Great. Yeah. I know people who my children have always been in full-time daycare. So for some people, that that's fine. Yeah, yeah. Right? They go to summer camp.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Um, so you know, it's it's really so I know people who take the summers off. I know people who are able to work full-time during the year and then take the summers off. Um, I'm actually working toward that where I can have my kids at home from more of the summer. Yeah. Um, but it takes time to get those systems into place to put the clients out. Right. Um, I, my family is a top priority, as is my business. You know, I don't I think we need to stop telling women to choose or rank. Why are we ranking? Yeah. Yeah. One day my business takes priority because I have this. I have to be here, right? Right. So if my kids miss something, I gotta tap, I lean into my husband or my parents. Yes. There are other days where the business goes on the backseat and I need to be there for my kids.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:48

So whatever somebody does within a family unit, as long as everybody is healthy, you know, happy, nourished, etc., yeah, is right for them.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

Yeah. Right. And allowing people to make that decision for themselves, I guess. But not, you know, not feeling like you have to do it all. That is, you know, that's key because as females, it's just it's constant and it's so draining and bad, and like it's not helpful.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

No, it's a faster burnout. And I've had twice in my life. Yeah. Um, and one of them was after after COVID, actually. Um, you know, and then there's your your mental health and your personal, you know, I'm I'm somebody in recovery. So like then there's my recovery meetings. And it's like it's just it's it's a lot. Yeah. And I've heard some, you know, this whole idea of achieving balance. I heard someone say once, you don't achieve balance because that intimates that everything is equal all the time. Yeah. Achieve. And I like that. So, like I said, some days I'm like, guys, it's McDonald's for dinner. I gotta finish this project. Right. Cool. Other days it's I spent three hours cooking a meal for that creative expression. So we're gonna uh spend some time together moving. I mean, and that's the harmony.

SPEAKER_00 40:07

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's cohesive, like it just flows, it makes sense and it works. And then you with the support of other people, and you've sounds like you've also trained, I don't want to say like in a bad way, but in a basically you've trained your kids, your husband, your family members, you know, to you know, to actually help you so that you're not doing it all yourself. And you're like, listen, you know, this is a joint effort. Everybody has their part and they play um in it so that we can all we I can be successful, the household can be successful, and um, and then it's giving them power too, because if you know, the more that they're involved, the more that they feel like they're adding to the you know, family and life and everything. So that's yeah, that's great.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Yeah, someone told me, and I I I should probably research this to see if it's true, but you know the whole saying, like it takes a village, yeah. Because at one point in in the evolution of society, women were in a community, right? So like we would be sitting around in a circle doing what we needed to while the kids were playing. We would all be watching each other's kids, yeah. So we were never meant to do this alone, right? Right, right, I mean, right, right. And and I do have some mom friends, you know, hey, can you take so and so yeah, absolutely? Like we're always trying to help each other, but we were never meant to do this on our all as a single person on our own. Yeah, because it's that's too much. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. So, um, and and it's awesome to see, you know, the younger generation of men are more involved with the families, right? Like in my day, like my dad went off to work, right? And my mom's oh yeah. But I see, you know, at the millennial fathers. Yeah, there's dad the dad's name. Yeah, absolutely. When they come to the birthday party, like, yes, you do see them.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

You do see them. Even some, even simple things like the guy, like I forgot what I don't know what they're called, where the kid is like in the um in the holster around. Yeah, you know, you'll see the guys carrying the kids where normally it's always the mom, you know, but it's changing for the better.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

Yeah, absolutely. Because men want to be the engaged father, right? They want to have that. So I do think we're getting back to that village mentality a little bit more, at least I hope so. Oh, right, hopefully.

unknown 42:24

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Hopefully.

unknown 42:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

All right. So, um, okay, have you did you have any legal things that came up then um when you were starting, or just like your whole journey in your business? Was there anything legal that you came up that you were like, man, I wish I had someone I an attorney I could talk to? Or or you did talk to an attorney and you were like, That, I needed that, you know, from you.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

Oh yeah. So I'm one of those people, I want my side of the street clean, above all my paperwork's in, like that helps me sleep at night. Right. That's good. Yeah, well, and and I have this conversation often with new people, you know, do I file an LLC? That's the very first thing. I and I just met Basics, yes, yes, right. Yeah, basics, right? It's so important. But it is the first thing that we encounter as business owners. Yes. And fortunately, I had an accountant at the time who was like, You need an LLC. And I was like, I mean, I'm a writer. I sit at home.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

I don't need that.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

He was like, Jen, let's just say that a client visits you at home for whatever reason, needs to pick up some paperwork, trips on your front steps.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Like your accountant was telling you this. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That is a great.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Oh my gosh, yes. So he and in in Ohio, I know that not all states do this, but in Ohio, it is very easy to file for your LLCF. Oh, yes, it's so easy. Yeah. I mean, yes. If you're if you're like super basic, but if you are technology adverse or it's overwhelming, because it can very be overwhelming, like then get a lawyer to do it. Like it is. Worth the investment to separate the liability so nobody can go after my home. Yes. Nobody can go after my car and go after my business assets. Right. Right. But not you. But not me personally. And and that is, yeah. So I don't I tell people all the time, like, I do not give out legal advice, but I will tell you you need an LLC. Like that is it, that's where my legal advice ends. Yes. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

I mean it costs what, 100 bucks? Like something like that. The filing due is $99. Now I will say, so the one thing that I preach to everyone, because online and you know, other and people will say you can file it yourself, which you can, obviously you can, but you're putting your name as the agent of record or you're putting your name out there. So if someone, you know, were to sue you, they also know your name. So they potentially could include your name in the lawsuit, even though even though, you know, there's there's a good reason that the courts would allow you to, you know, um be able to be removed from the from the you know lawsuit, but you still have to go through that whole process.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Whereas if you have an attorney, you know, draft your LLC and file it for you, then normally the attorney is going to be the agent of record. And so there's anonymity and it no one knows your name, no one knows who you are, they just know the company, this company was filed, but they have there's no record anywhere that you know you're associated with that business, unless, you know, there's other ways to find out. I mean, maybe if you've done some, you know, maybe a um a story on, you know, with a reporter or in the news or something like that, and people can associate you. But I mean, traditionally, you know, people do not know who the owner of you know all these different businesses are because it's filed with an attorney and the agent of record is the attorney.

SPEAKER_01 45:55

So okay, well, good to know. Then I will so from now on I will tell people I have an attorney for you. Yes, yes, closely with her. Yes, yes. See, and that's that's such a great example of why DIY is good to a point, right? But only the experts are gonna know. Right. And the last thing any of us need is like one of the like one more thing to do. Right. Yeah. We just talked about how full our plates are. It's like the last thing I need is one more thing. Yes, yes. No, I my second outsourcing was to an accountant bookkeeper for for similar reasons. Yeah, because they're up to date on something like that. I'm not filing my own taxes.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

You no, no, you do that, yeah. Yeah, you're the expert. I want you to be able to operate within your wheelhouse. Yes. And I'll do mine, and then I have time to do things I didn't do, and I know that's taken care of. Yeah. Yeah. So the other thing that um I did engage a trademark attorney.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Yes, awesome. So the right difference is trademarked. My message passport is trademarked, like register. Every once in a while I looked it up and I look it up in the database just to go, that's mine.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Yeah, that's awesome. And then I have a couple other um key messages that I will trademark eventually. That was something I was like, you know, this is an avenue for an expert. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. But for so uh someone asked me, they're like, you know, why would you do that? Is it worth it? And I was like, well, yes, because of the internet, real, really. I mean, if somebody searches my name, so now if they use the right difference, W-R-I-T-E, and there was a book published called the same name that is not um affiliated with me, and that's really when I got scared. I was like, this way I can cease and desist. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So I need to own that when somebody enters that into the Google, I need to be able to own that space.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

Yes, that's what trademarking and uh does. So that's awesome. Yeah, and it wasn't that big of a deal.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

No, it because I hired somebody. But I mean it wasn't super expensive.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

No, it's not. And the thing is, is that if you don't, it's it's better to pay the money now than let's say you use the name you're going on for 10 years, and then all of a sudden someone says, I actually trademarked that name. You have to stop. They're sending you a C synthesis letter. And then you're like, Oh my gosh, I have to rebrand my name, my marketing, everything. And it's yeah, so you'd rather be the first one, get that trademark, and then you're you're good. Um, pay the money up front and just you know, make sure that you're protected. So good.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

I mean, it's my intellectual property, it's my business. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, so and then I think I'm going to have some contracts drawn up. Um I will well, I have an independent contract agreement. Sorry on that. So do bring on contractors, the other experts do some work.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

And um, my biggest concern there was I didn't want to bring somebody on and then have them go around me to my clients directly.

unknown 48:58

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:59

So, and I make that very clear whenever I bring I mean, most people are honest, but um, I actually engaged with a social media company and their contractor reached out directly, and I was like, that is unethical. Oh yeah, I mean I let I would never, I would never frog over that company. I thought that's yeah, that's not ethical. Um and then in the future, I'm going to license some other material. So I'll need to talk to a lawyer. Yeah, I'm real big on this is what you do. I'm gonna save us all some ultimately you do save money. You do by bringing in an expert. Yep. Especially in the legal world because then stuff changes. It varies by state. It does, yes. It can change with the administration.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Like I don't have the time nor to keep up with all of it. No, yeah. Or desire. Yeah, no, makes me want to take a nap. I'm like, no, all this legal jargon and reading and yeah, and and that's the thing. Like, operate within your you know, area and bring on partners, bring on other people that can help you, because then you know the whole village is able to win. And we're all eating, right? Yes, yes, that, yes, that is what happens, right?

SPEAKER_01 50:18

We all we all rise, we all rise together and we all win. But when we try to do it all ourselves or backdoor it or whatever, no, we lose what's that saying, like the chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I wholeheartedly believe that. Well, that is a great um area to like toast to. Yeah, absolutely. These great business decisions, and um, we will pour to some great wine and coffee. Um tavernella is this um San Jovese um red wine, and Jen has some her favorite drink, um, some coffee. What kind of coffee is it?

SPEAKER_01 51:06

This is a Starbucks Americano with oat milk. Americano with oat milk. Yes, I decided to treat myself since I knew I was coming here. That's my dream. Cheers. Cheers, thank you. Thank you.