Welcome to Everyday Radical, a podcast where we help the everyday Christian follow Jesus and make him known everywhere. We pray that today's episode encourages you to do just that. So let's dive right in. I think the American dream for a lot of people, it blinds them to the reality of the Great Commission. The American dream tells you pursue comfort, pursue success, pursue a good life. The Great Commission says, go to all nations, make disciples of every tribe, every language, every tongue. And we see that. And I think when when we when we look at you as a Gen Z person, like I look at you and I see your passion and your zeal for the Great Commission, for meeting with these brothers and sisters in persecuted nations. In reference to what you experience with these brothers and sisters in persecuted places where they don't have the luxuries, they don't have the comforts that we have. Um, you're meeting with pastors who who I saw a video of you the other day. You're meeting with a pastor who had been sent a video of people being murdered on screen. How do you how do you take that and then you look at the American church and and how do you connect the the two?
SPEAKER_01Oh man. Wow, there's a lot there, Austin. I I would say, especially that conversation with that pastor. Uh so let me come back to that. I would say big picture. And this is not just speaking like the American church outside of me. Like I'm in the American church, I'm a pastor in the American church. Like this is to us, you and me, us, and myself included. Uh like don't miss the big picture. I think where what you're kind of narrowing in on is American Dream is a certain picture of success and prosperity that if we're not careful, we get caught up in this river that's flowing in that direction. And it's not that uh take, for example, money you can make in America is bad. But if the goal is success, comfort, prosperity in this world, you've missed the bigger picture. Like, no. I mean, just think about it. Like, I live, you live in the United States of America, where we can actually accumulate resources that can be stewarded for the spread of the gospel among the nations. Like, that's where that's that's all even I when I when I wrote Radical, like I didn't, well, one, I didn't think that people would read it. And uh, and two, I didn't, I didn't know like this would actually make money that by God's grace. Uh little type in the beginning of the book said all the royalties for that will go toward promoting the glory of Jesus in all nations. And so, oh, what a stewardship! Like, I was able to make money that can be used for the glory of Christ among the nations. Like, that's what a what is yeah, stewardship's the right word because it's entrusted to us by God for his purposes. So to keep his big picture purposes that for all of us in our lives in mind that success, again, is following Jesus, making him known in the world, however he calls us to do that with all these resources we've been given. And then, so now in the process of the big picture, yes, we have brothers and sisters. Well, we have the parts of the world where the gospel's not yet gone. So we need to have our eyes open to that. And how can we play a part in changing that? And then we have brothers and sisters all around the world who are in places, oftentimes that's where they're persecuted, where the there's least access to the gospel. And uh, and how can we come alongside our brothers and sisters in those ways? Like, yeah, that uh picture that you're referencing, persecution in West Africa. And I just think about Paul specifically when he's writing Romans, he has an ambition to see Christ preacher, he's not been named in Spain. And so he's writing to the church at Rome to say, hey, we need to get the gospel. People have never heard it. At the same time, he says, I'm on my way to Jerusalem because there's suffering believers there. They're in famine in Jerusalem. So I'm taking an offering to them. So it's also really important to have our eyes open as followers of Jesus, so specifically in the United States, to have our eyes open to the body of Christ around the world and how we can come alongside. We need encouragement to, support to. When one part of the body is hurting, then the whole body hurts. And we have brothers and sisters in parts of the world where it is costing them deeply to follow Jesus. We need to be aware of the persecuted church, we need to pray for the persecuted church, we need to look for ways we and our churches can come alongside the persecuted church around the world and lock arms with the persecuted church around the world for the spread of the gospel and places where it hasn't gone.
SPEAKER_00I think my exhortation, and I know you would agree with me on this, is that, and as people in America, not just us, but the ones that we're talking to, the the people that work these jobs, that I'll just give this example uh who people who are Uber drivers, Lyft drivers in the United States. I feel like I've met more people from the nations that are Lyft drivers and Uber drivers here in America than I have Americans who do that. Like for reference, three weeks ago I was flying up to Minneapolis, my Uber driver from Austin to the airport in Austin was from Nepal, an unreached nation that's hidden in the mountains that people don't just stumble into. But this guy had flown here 10 years ago to live in California, then moved to Austin six months ago. And I just was sitting with him, engaging in conversation, getting to talk about, man, do you have a faith? Do you believe in God? Hearing his kind of heart for spirituality and religion, and just knowing and asking him the question of, man, have you had a conversation, like a genuine conversation with a Christian in these past 10 years, this decade? He said, uh, I don't think so. And I say, Wow. Because look at look at us, look at the American church, the ones who live here with the comfort, with the luxury, and yet we aren't even satisfied with it to the point where we won't teach and tell and spread the gospel to the people that are around us who are taking us to the airport to go certain places. And my heart broke for him. And I just asked him, Man, have you ever heard the gospel? And he goes, No, but I've always wanted to, I've heard about it. And I'm like, Praise God. So shared the gospel with him. I think it overwhelmed him a little bit because he was starting to think of his life. His wife, he said, is super religious and Buddhist. And he was just really considering what is after this. And I got to pray for him. And I'm still believing that the Lord is at work in his heart. But when we see this, this guy that has come to America and probably in pursuit of the American dream, that if we aren't the ones to be the body of Christ, to be the hands and feet of Jesus, to actively pursue the people around us, then we're gonna miss out on a great opportunity because that guy could maybe in a year, maybe five years, go home to Nepal. And because of this interaction, by God's grace, that the scene that is planted, that he used me to do, that he brings the growth to, that he could go home and start a church, just be radical where he is, because ultimately we're we're we're not the ones who are going to change the narrative of these nations. We're the ones that we're invited into what God is doing. And if we're just faithful and obedient to where he has placed us right now, then those are the stories that can happen. He may never remember my name. I honestly don't remember his name. But when we come to that, it's like, man, that story can unfold and have ripples effects for generations to come that Nepal may be reached by the time I'm 50 years old because of that one guy and our faithfulness. And when we talk about them, Nepal, Nigeria, uh Afghanistan, Pakistan, these places, and what what is the encouragement that they say to you, David, as as a pastor, the pastors you talk to over there, what do they say to you about us as a church, as a body of believers in America? What do they do they envy us? Do they do they say, well, I I wish we had this? Or do they look at us and they're like, man, I wish you guys were just like us? What's the consensus that they have?
SPEAKER_01Oh bro, hey, before I even answer that, uh, I've got to just put an exclamation point on uh like God has brought the nations to us. Like God brought Nepal to you in an Uber. Um yeah, I same for me. Like uh uh most every Uber Lyft I'm in is with somebody from usually an unreached part of the world, not just another part of the world, an unreached part of the world. Like the last two this week have been both from Pakistan and uh both like hearing the gospel. I think to your point, for the first time, it certainly seemed like it. Um, so and and not just in Uber or Lyft, like look at our neighborhoods wherever we live. Let's be intentional. So this is where, yes, we can make disciples of nations right outside our front doors, like right where we live, if we'll be intentional along those lines. And again, yeah, unique opportunities that we have to do that in ways that I love the way you put it, because it's the way disciple making works. It's like you are like one link in a chain. And even not just like I love the way you put it because it wasn't one, I mean, it would have been great if you had if that person had come to Christ in the car. That would have been awesome. But even just I planted, and Lord willing, that's that that seed is going to be watered, it's gonna grow, it's gonna bear fruit in ways that yeah, only heaven can measure, and we'll see. And uh, and one day we'll see. But just play our parts every day, play our parts and trust this is this is part of a bigger picture uh that that does eventually lead. That's the beauty of making disciples, is that whenever we're doing that right where we live, we're part of a plan that eventually reaches the nations if we keep our focus there. So then that then to come back to okay, our brothers and sisters in those parts of the world. I mean, that's one of the things we as radical get to be a part of, coming alongside our brothers and sisters in really unreached areas. And uh, and one, I just I love the way we get to be a bridge between followers of Jesus in places where the gospel has gone and we've reached places, and followers of Jesus in unreached places who are on the front lines doing incredible work. And we get to help kind of make those connections and come alongside and say to these brothers and sisters in really hard places, we're with you, we're for you. Uh, not we, just radical, like the church around the world is with you and for you. You're not doing this alone. And that's where I do think there is so much like mutual edification that happens there. It's it's like um Paul in Romans chapter one, I long to see you, son of my impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong, that you and I be mutually encouraged by each other's faith. So we have so much to learn from our brothers and sisters in Christ, in those places, about the sufficiency of Jesus, about the trustworthiness of Jesus, about uh, yeah, all his promises in the middle of persecution that are true. And uh that, I mean, talking with that pastor from a very persecuted part of the world, um uh I was so encouraged because he looked me in the eye uh amidst some challenges that I was walking through and he was like, Don't don't give up, like keep pressing on. And I've not experienced near the level of challenge. I mean, this this brother has been in a church that's been uh raided, attacked, he's run for his life, um, almost got killed. And here he is looking at me, like, don't give up. And I'm like, what? Of course, there's no chance our I can't give up. Like, I've not been near, they're near what brother you've been through, and you're telling me this, yes. But then also we have an opportunity to look them in the eye and say, Don't don't, don't give up. Like keep pressing on. Um, and and do it, and and I'll tell you one other thing that's most convicting for me in conversations with our persecutor brothers and sisters around the world. Uh, they're they're doing it at great cost, like they're sharing the gospel when it could cost them their lives. We, you and I, we're talking about an Uber or whatever, like we're there's there's risk of awkwardness, maybe. Yeah, right. But beyond that, and I say I don't want to minimize that. There's I think of many people in the church I pastor, like, who may face risks, like potentially lose their job if if they are uh yeah, there's there's some if they're active in sharing the gospel in the workplace, there are risks, but it's still a different life. It's not like you can lose your life, you could lose your family. You could um and well, even that I think about some the point is I'm now thinking about some brothers and sisters in Christ who uh like are from countries uh that are unreasoned in the world that have lost their families, that are in our church family. So it's not just that it's over there, but this is where this is who we are as the body of Christ. We are literally a family that surrounds each other, encourages each other, spurs each other on toward the toward Jesus and his mission. And when it gets hard, we help each other stay steadfast. And we need to be linked with the body of Christ around the world in that. Because if our world just looks like followers of Jesus right around us, then we're missing out on the big picture that God has created us to be a part of.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I just can't help but think of Revelation 6 when uh the martyrs are pleading with the Lord, when, when will we have the final retribution of what we went through? When will we come back? When will this kingdom be established? And he tells them to rest until the number of the martyrs that have been killed like them are added to them. And so when you say that, I can't help but think of, man, you're so right, you're so spot on when it comes to the American, the Western church who who loves to gather on Sundays, but when that's over, we don't love to be the ones that go after the lost. There is coming a day when tribulation is gonna come and it's gonna arise and persecution of even us will happen. But for the meanwhile, when all we face is an awkward conversation potentially, why not just handle a little bit of rejection? Why not just handle a little bit of, oh no, I don't want to be prayed for? It's okay. Like that's my heart. That's what my heart burns for, is that we would all step out of our comfort zones in any way. And we all have different gifts. Like the Spirit of God has given us each individually gifts that he wants to evoke. And but he's only gonna be able to do that if we draw near. He's the Bible says, draw near to me and I will draw near to you. It's not that God left us, it's not that God is away from us, but he is standing at the door, knocking on our hearts, saying, Just let me in. And when you do, everything's gonna change.
SPEAKER_01It's good. You know, one of the most, it makes me think one of the most poignant things. Uh a brother from a persecuted part of the world said to me was, David, the point of persecution is to silence witness. So that's the whole point. Like, as long as you're not like sharing the gospel, like the persecution's not gonna come in those places. It's gonna come when you are professing to be a follower of Jesus or trying to lead other people to Jesus, sharing the gospel. Um, so the point of persecution is to silence silence witness. So if we as Christians are silencing our witness, then we are actually identifying not with the persecuted church around the world, we're identifying with the persecutors in that sense. Like their whole purpose is a silence witness. If we're silencing witness, like we're we're identifying less with the persecuted church and more with those who are persecuting them in that sense. And that man, that stuck with me in a way that's just like, oh God, help me to be faithful to you, just period. And faithful to speak the gospel, just because this is what you call me to do, and help me to do this in a way that identifies with my persecutor, brothers and sisters around the world. Uh, don't let me, don't let us be uh guilty in the sense of yes, sinning by silencing witness. Wow.
SPEAKER_00Man, that's deep. That's something I'm gonna take with me for the rest of my life, probably. Well, David, as we begin to wrap up our conversation, for the person listening who wants to be faithful, they want to live radically, they want to make their life count, they want to make Jesus known in the world, but they feel stuck. What is what's their first step? What is the one truth that you want to leave them with? All right, one truth.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, all right. So under this banner, follow Jesus, make him known. Like this is not just the purpose of your life, but like the joy, right? Like to follow Jesus is life. And to make him known is life. Follow me, I'll make you fishers of men. This is what it means to be a follower of Jesus. This this is where joy, true life is found. And it's not even so the goal is not uh to live radically, the goal is to follow Jesus, make him known, realizing okay, that's gonna lead you totally against the grain of this world. So it's gonna look radical in the world. Uh, it's normal for a follower of Jesus, it's gonna look radical in the world. So, where do you start? Oh man, so uh start on your face before the Lord alone today or tomorrow, whenever you listen to this, soon, uh immediately, uh in his word, just seeking him, abiding in him, so like meditating on his word day and night. It was just in Joshua 1, uh being careful to do according to all that's written that. Like this is where this is where following Jesus making it known starts. Then uh I would encourage you, like find a church, a local church, where you can spur others on and you can be spurred on to follow Jesus and make him known in the world. Like, not just to go through motions of church, like that. None of us, none of us needs that, like where you can follow Jesus and make him known alongside other brothers and sisters in Christ. We all need that. I need that, you need that. We need a body of Christ where we're doing this together. None of us is called to do this on our own. And so do that, and then look at the place God's put you in right now and say, Okay, how can I make him known to the people around me today? Like, who I think about uh one brother and uh persecuted part of the world. Whenever he led somebody to Jesus, his first question he would ask that person was, okay, list all the people you know, everybody know, and then who are the five people that are least likely to kill you if you share the gospel with them? That's that was the first question he'd ask. And so they they'd circled the five names and be like, okay, let's let's think about how we can share the gospel with them. So, so think through, okay, how can you make Jesus known? Very practically, who are the people you can make Jesus known? Start praying for those people, start praying for opportunities to share the gospel with those people, uh, start looking for and stepping into opportunities to share the gospel. You're making Jesus. You don't have to wait like to do this. You can do this today, tomorrow. Um, so to do this, abiding in Jesus as part of a local church, making him known. And then as you do, just with your life totally open hands, surrendered, say, God just lead me day by day to do this more and more and more. Follow you more deeply, make you known more fully, more boldly in the world, and he will. I just think anybody listening to this who does that. Well, and that's what I want to do with not like today and tomorrow. Uh I would encourage you, like any of us, if we're doing that, like he's gonna lead us, guide us, Ephesians 3, 20 and 21, in ways immeasurably more than all we could ask or imagine. Uh, he we can trust him with our lives. And uh I guess maybe the last thing I would say is don't be afraid of total surrender to Jesus. Some people are like, I don't know. I don't know what if he leads me here or there. Like, if you can trust him to save you for the next 10 trillion years and beyond, you can trust him to lead you for the next few years here. And not just to lead you, but to satisfy you every step of the way. This is life. So don't just do this for the spread the gospel among the nations, do it for your own joy in the process.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. We pray that this conversation stirred your heart for Christ and his mission. Now let's go and make Jesus known everywhere.