Welcome to Everyday Radical, a podcast where we help the everyday Christian follow Jesus and make him known everywhere. We pray that today's episode encourages you to do just that. So let's dive right in. David, we all know that reading the Bible is important and valuable to the Christian life. But if we're honest, at least for me, sometimes it can feel boring or overwhelming or just like hard to understand. And so the desire is there, but the joy and the consistency maybe aren't. So how do we grow in the spiritual discipline of reading the word? Oh man.
SPEAKER_01Well, I uh there's so much there. I I think one to realize. I and I I I think you the way you put it, like, we all know this is valuable. I I I don't know if we well, I don't, I'm not presuming I realize the total value, but I just think Psalm 119, 162 said, I rejoice at your word like one who finds great spoil. Like spoil the I love that image. Like this is spoil. This is treasure just waiting for us. And I think uh I think the challenge, and this is inherent in your question, is that people have not experienced the treasure of this word, like the spoil that's found here. I think in part because we kind of view it as okay, I think that's something I'm supposed to do, need to do, should do, check off a box to do. But that's why in this uh how to read the Bible book, I I couch the whole thing just in with an illustration of like love letters between my wife and me, um, which could make people sick as they read it. But the whole point is like this is a picture of God's love for us. Like he loves us so much, he speaks to us. Like, I just think about, bro, my my time this morning, uh like I had a meeting with God this morning. Like the God who spoke and the universe came into being. Like I was spending time with him and he was talking to me, like he was like directly speaking to me through his spirit in this word. And uh, so all that to say, if we read the Bible rightly, because there's all kinds of wrong ways to read it, uh, and ways that actually I would say are harmful for us or destructive to us. Not just I would say that, Jesus said that, James said that. Like there's ways to read the Bible that are actually very unhelpful and unhealthy. But if we read it rightly, then we'll see this is treasure that it that leads us to love relationship with God. That's what I'm I'm zealous to help people experience. What are some of the ways that are unhealthy that uh someone can read the Bible? Well, oftentimes we can read the Bible if we're reading it just to check off a box, just to kind of get through where like we're gonna we're gonna miss out. Uh if we if we're not careful, we can read it and kind of twist it to say things we want it to say instead of uh adjusting our lives to the Bible, we can adjust the Bible to our lives. Um and then I think specifically about Jesus when he said, Everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice will be like a foolish man who built his house on sand, rain came, wind blew, beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash. Like, whoa. Everybody who hears the words that I speak and doesn't do them. So if we don't put them into practice, it'll actually like reading God's word will actually lead to our destruction if we're not putting it into practice. James says the same thing. Don't merely listen to the word and so deceive yourselves, do what it says. Right. Like if we just listen to the word, we don't soak it in, understand what it's what's saying, and then do it, then it'll actually lead to our deception. So deception and destruction will come if we just read the Bible. Like, just think about that for a minute. Just reading the Bible may actually lead to your destruction and deception. Like, no, like there's a way that we need to read and then apply the Bible, understand what's what God is saying in it, and then put it into practice in our lives. That that's where life change and transformation really happens. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, let's say I want to do that. Like I want to apply it, I want to do it. What if I don't understand what it's saying? Like, how do I approach that? Like, do I just move on to something else and come back to that when I'm two years down the line as a Christian? Yeah, no, no, you don't do that.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, there we will always be learning more and more and more as we dive in this book. But uh the way I I would describe it, like years ago, somebody told me, uh, God does not reveal the intimate things of his heart to those who casually come and go. Like this is gonna take some work. Like it this is not one of the illustrations I use in in the how to read the Bible book is uh like this is not a fast food restaurant. This is fine dieting, like it takes some time and doesn't need to be like this is better than a um McDonald's processed patty. Like this is like a a good steak, or if you're vegetarian, whatever do you would do eat instead of steak. Like it's just like to be enjoyed to savor. Like I use the illustration of when uh so when Heather and I first started dating, uh this was before texting or anything, and she was the first girl I ever dated, which uh sounds noble until you realize it was just totally socially awkward. And God graciously provided somebody who's attracted to my social awkwardness. But she wrote me a letter. I remember when I started like getting these letters from her, I'd be like, I'd I'd open this letter and be like, dear David, I'd like, dear, whoa, that's a good start. And then she'd be like, I'm praying for you. And I'm like, what does she mean by that? Is she praying for me like she prays for anybody, or like she's praying for me like she prays for her future husband? Like, or she puts a smiley face, and I'm like, why a smiley face right there? So to do that, see, you might say, Well, you were pretty obsessed, and that's kind of the point. Yes, I was totally obsessed, I was in love. This is God's word. So to read, I mean, I just opened up a Psalm 77. So I I cry aloud to God, aloud to God, and he will hear me. I just to I mean this is totally random, but uh just okay, soak that in. Why does he say aloud to God twice? Okay, like he's crying out like he's desperate. God, I'm desperate. Like, and he will hear me. He hears me when I'm desperate. It's like that's just one verse, and I'm not saying every verse is like that, uh, but but to really soak in now you you ask, like, well, what if you don't understand it? Because yeah, there are other parts I could open a Leviticus and be like, uh, what did what did even this mean? Um uh, but that's where I would say I a good study Bible can be really helpful for understanding. So it's just a simple tool, and you can do this online too, uh, and you can get electronic versions or physical copy. But like the one we encourage people to get in our church family is the ESV study bible. So ESV is translation study Bible, but it just has notes that help you kind of get the context. Because in order to really understand what's happening, you need to understand who were the first people to read this, who who was the person writing this? How is it all sort of understand the context of this this particular book, Jeremiah, that was written you know, centuries ago, what was going on during that time that would help me understand some of the context? So a good study Bible can be really helpful to either.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think I think the context is is really key for a lot of people. There's this trend that's been happening on like Christian TikTok where people just take verses out of context and they're like, Oh, I would send this to the person you love. And it's just like, I thank God every time I remember you. I'm like, okay, like, yeah, that's great, but like also it was Paul writing to specific people, and another one's like Philippians, you know, like whatever you take from from these places in the Bible, like you have to read into the context, right?
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, totally. Like, I don't know if you're referring to like Philippians 4 13. Yeah, I can do all things through Christ's district to me. Like, okay, I mean it doesn't make you Superman. Like you can't like all of a sudden do everything like because you have Jesus. And in fact, that's the beauty. You you use the word context uh to really look at what's around a passage. Because what happens, what Paul says uh right before verse 13 is he talks about I learned the secret of being content in any and every situation. So he's not actually saying I can I can like uh yeah, accomplish anything. He's saying when I have a lot, when I have a little, when things are going awesome, when things are not going awesome, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Like all things is in every circumstance, I have a strength that uh will enable me to press through, like will enable me not to yeah, do this or like win a game or whatever it might be that we oftentimes would uh like abuse that verse for. But actually, the whole verse is about being content even when you lose the game. Like that's the whole point. In all things, I have strength that Jesus can bring me through.
SPEAKER_00That's good. Was there ever a season of your life or ministry where you maybe neglected quiet time or time with the Lord and and treating this book as uh not just a bunch of words on a page, but like actually the divinely inspired word of God? Was there ever a time in your life where that just kind of fell into the into the pits?
SPEAKER_01Totally. Like I I am yeah, I'm I'm thinking about certainly when I was like in high school, college, there were times when I was uh just reading through the word, journaling based on the word, and then there were times when I was ignoring the word. And but then what's really scary is there was there was one particular season in my life as a pastor where I I would study the Bible, like to preach a sermon on Sunday, but I wouldn't just read it just to know God, like I which is frightening to me, like that I could like lead in a church and and not only lead in the church, like things were going well, like things were growing, and I was I was getting invited to preach in all these different places, like, but I was doing it totally apart from intimacy with God and just time alone with him, just just to know him. Uh so yes, yes, I've experienced those time. But I I remember that season in particular, God just waking me up, uh, actually using my wife, Heather, in a very instrumental way to help me see I was I was on a a really dangerous road. And uh, and so ever since then, like I I I don't want this to sound trite or I'm just kind of saying this or over dramatic or anything, but I I cannot live without this word I every every morning. I I cannot live. My my the way I think, the way I desire, uh, the way I live, like I I will be, I I need to be transformed every day by this word. And and I have found Psalm one to to be true, that happiness, like blessing and prosperity, like true prosperity comes in meditation on this word day to night. Like it's this is a way God's design, and that's oh, that's what I would just encourage anybody listening to watching this, like this is for your good. Like, who psalm one? Happy is the one whose delight is in the law of the Lord, meditates on it day and night. He will be like a tree planted by streams of water, yields its fruit in season, its leaf won't wither, and all that he does, he'll prosper. Like, who doesn't want that? Like everybody listening to this wants prosperity, like true prosperity, not worldly prosperity. Everybody wants happiness, like nobody doesn't want that, like everybody wants happiness. And this book is guaranteed when we read it rightly, meditate on it, then it will and meditate on basically means just to linger over, just not rush through it, um, but to really soak it in. It will lead to that, guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm just reminded right now of Hebrews 4 12, right? The word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the vision of soul and spirit, of joints and marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Like it, it's it's it's alive. Like it's not just words, it's it's Jesus. He is the word made flesh who dwelt among us. And he is it's the one thing that's unshakable that will last forever.
SPEAKER_01And that's just that's there's so much there, just to kind of put an exclamation point on two of those things. One, that it'll last forever. Like, think about what I mean. How many hours do we spend scrolling through a phone on looking, filling our minds with stuff that will not last forever? Yeah, it won't last forever. This will last forever. Like that, this is so much more valuable. And then uh the other thought that comes to my mind, like living and active, I just think about my time with the Lord this morning. Bro, uh, I just have a Bible reading plan I'm in. So right now I'm in Isaiah and a psalm. And uh man, the way so these are verses I've read before, but the Holy Spirit taking those verses in this moment as I'm praying, just spending time again, communing with God, and the Holy Spirit takes these words on a page and brings them to life in my heart, and he's speaking to me. And I mean, there were points where I'm not saying it's like revival every morning, but like this morning I was in tears at one point. Like he's just overwhelmed by God's grace, by God's love, by his goodness toward me, uh, all that living and active is what you as you read that in Hebrews 4:12. That's what came to my mind. Like living, active communion with God that is possible for us through this word that's unlike anything else in the world.
SPEAKER_00So it's so weighty. It's it's not something to approach lightly, right? Um and and I I just think of uh good, I'm just like it's all coming to my mind, but like um, I'm not really sure where it's from, but it's uh approaching the throne room of God with confidence by drawing near by the blood of the Lamb. Like we don't have to come to God in reading the word with like, oh maybe we'll see what happens today, but we can approach his throne room with confidence, knowing that he wants to speak to us. He doesn't, he's not just gonna leave us dry, right? Like he's he he wants to lavish us with all of his wisdom, right?
SPEAKER_01So good, man. Yes, I love that. And man, I'll just uh make a confession here. Like, there was uh a few days ago, I was I was really tired in the morning, and uh, and I just uh the thought came to my mind like I know I'm just gonna kind of go light on my tower lore, just like a little less time. And uh I was like, no, no. I kind of talked myself into spending more concentrated time and than I normally do in the morning. And bro, like uh I don't remember how long it was later, over an hour later. I was like, why did I want to skip out on this? Like, this is like the and the Lord just met me in a in a particularly powerful way uh that morning. And I just had to repent. Like, why I mean I'm in a book on this, like I I I like I know this from years and years and years, and yet, man, I'm prone to wonder. Like my flesh, like I just was like, uh what else did I have that important that day? Like, even just like rest. No, like I man, so I had to repent of just like God. I at the end of that time, I was like, forgive me. Like, I you you're such a good father. You just had just good waiting for me. And thank you for your patience with me, even being reluctant about experiencing the good you had for me.
SPEAKER_00That's so good. And so we have we have your book, How to Read the Bible. Um, are there practical habits or rhythms that maybe you touch on in this book that have personally helped you know grow with God, spend time, spend more time with with him?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean that that that's really the the book's kind of overflow of my attempt to try to help others. And the subtitle is like how to uh a guide to experiencing intimacy with God. And so I walked through an acrostic in there that's just meditate and memorize and apply and pray and share and kind of give some practical handles, I hope, on those things. One one thing I would that I talk about in there that I would uh that comes to my mind when you're like, okay, just like practical disciplines like or things you do. I for me, journaling is really valuable. Uh so and and I talk about this a little bit in the book. Like I can't, I can't point to a burst that's like journal. So I wouldn't say everybody needs a journal, but and by journaling, I basically, and it could look different in different people's lives, but in my life, it's just like, yeah, my time with the Lord this morning just opens up. And I usually do this on an iPad or my computer. Obviously, you can write, uh, but it helps me from being too distracted. A mind starts to wander. This kind of helps me to stay focused, and it's just good to be intentional. So I'm I'm just writing out like from the very beginning of prayers to God, uh, based on the day before, reflecting on what God's taught me the day before. But then when I dive into the word, so I'm reading uh Psalm 113 this morning. It starts just like, praise the Lord, praise the name of the Lord from the rising of the sun to the setting of the same. Let the name of the Lord be praised. So I like, I'm like copying and pasting that and then just writing out a prayer praise after that. It's just like soaking in the word, praying according to the word. And I think journaling helps me be intentional about that, as opposed to just trying to uh yeah, just reading that and praying. Yes, I think that's fine. And not just fine, that's great, it's glorious. But I for me it's more helpful to be I journaling has just been, I can actually pretty much track the times where I've experienced deepest intimacy with God over the course of my life, have corresponded with times I've been intentional about journaling and praying and spending time in the word and writing uh a lot of that out.
SPEAKER_00So uh what kind of posture do you think is necessary when you're approaching reading the Bible? I mean, something that I feel like the Lord has given me revelation on is like intimacy with him equals proximity, right? We we can be really close to this plus posture. So it's like I need to come with an attitude of like maybe I need to learn, or are you gonna teach me something today? Like, what is the what is the posture that we should approach the Bible with?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I just think Psalm 119, open my eyes that I may behold wonderful things in your law. Like that this so the posture is clearly like humility. I just think Isaiah 66, uh, this is the one in whom I delight. Uh he who trembles at my word. Like the picture of coming to God's word with a humility, with a trembling, and just saying, God, I know there's treasure here. Open my eyes that I may behold wonderful things in your law. And to, and it's good, even just to pray that. For me, it's helpful. Like when I open the word, I'm not saying I do this every time, but pretty often, like to say, open my eyes that I may behold wonderful things in your law, because I it's a good reminder. This is a spiritual, supernatural exercise. I'm not, this is not just like opening up a novel or whatever else, anything, any other book I would read in the world. I can't say that that prayer like in this way. This is a supernaturally God-breathed book, and your spirit is with me right now to help me see. This is uh Ephesians 1, that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened. Like, like if you don't do this work and help me see, I won't see. Like, even when I was reading the other day in Isaiah 6, uh, be ever seeing but not understanding. Like it's possible, like you said, proximity, but not actually like intimacy. Um, so the posture is a humility, a prayerful dependence on the Holy Spirit, and uh, and I would add just a posture, I don't know how to put this in posture language, but a commitment to work. Like treasure, you don't usually just stumble upon it. It's not sitting out on the ground. Like, and I'm not saying that there's uh that you have to, it's extremely hard to find the treasure in this book, but you got to do some digging, you gotta do the work of context, understanding that's one of the things I walked through in the book, like just asking some different questions of the text that'll help you get to the treasure that's under there. But it takes work, like you you can't just be content with a little word from God for the day, like, or just kind of a passing thought for the day. That's not what that's we you won't get treasure that way. Yeah, so yeah, that's very helpful.
SPEAKER_00Um, for the person who is maybe feeling like they're failing in this regard of like the spiritual discipline of reading the Bible, but they want to be more consistent. Like, what is your encouragement? What's your next step for them to take?
SPEAKER_01Well, one on the in and anyway, feeling failing, just uh uh guard your heart. Uh, the the devil is an accuser, that's his name. Like he likes to throw our weaknesses in our face. So just like there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. The father loves you, like the father delight desires you good for you. Uh uh, so just God loves you. Don't don't see him as the accuser, like the Satan's the accuser. And so just rest in his grace, his love for you, and then let that lead you to some of the very practical thing. And this will be like, okay, I'm not sure how that was practically helpful. But if I'm struggling to read the Bible, my encouragement would be read the Bible anyway. Like just take the time to read it. And the the the uh the a couple illustrations that come to my mind along those lines. Well, one, if we if we like even our lacking hunger for the word, it might have something to do with all the other stuff we're filling our minds with in this world. Like if we spend, what is it, on average, like four or five hours a day scrolling through drivel on our phones on screens, well, we shouldn't be surprised when our stomachs are full, like our spiritual stomach, like we we've already filled our mind with all this other stuff. And we need, so how do you change that? Uh, the other illustration I use is when uh Heather and I started dating. And the first I grew up in a home where my dad hated seafood, so we all hated seafood. And the first time I ever go to her house for dinner, they're making seafood. And I'm like, oh man, I can't even stand the smell. Yeah. And uh uh, so I'm like, but I got impressed by this girl. And so I ate it and uh just told them how great it tastes. And uh and they the problem was they bought it. Like they were like, Oh, he loves seafood. So the next time I came over, they were like, oh, let's do seafood for David. So and then it turned into like every time I'd eat with their family, it was like seafood. And I was like, oh man. The end of the story is today I love seafood. And it's because I had to love it to get a wife, but my taste buds change. That's the point of the story. My taste buds change them. So read the Bible and let it change your taste buds. Like get into it, give it time, spend, you know, spend the next month reading a chapter, two chapters a day, doing the kind of things I talk about in this boat, just meditating on it, thinking through how it applies to your life, praying through it, and your taste buds will start to change. You will not come away from like diligently diving into treasure here uh empty. You won't, you won't, this word will not return void. It won't if you spend the time with the kind of humble posture we're talking about. And uh yeah, you won't, you won't come away empty.
SPEAKER_00Amen. Thanks so much for joining us today on Everyday Radical. We pray that this conversation stirred your heart and strengthened your faith. There's so much more ahead, so go back and catch any episodes you might have missed and subscribe so you don't miss what's ahead. Let's keep making Jesus known everywhere. Until next time.