Welcome to Everyday Radical, a podcast where we help the everyday Christian follow Jesus and make him known everywhere. We pray that today's episode encourages you to do just that. So let's dive right in.
SPEAKER_02So it's become a running joke with my team. And there's several of us at the porch. But the running joke is that I I continue to get woken up by God in the middle of the night. And it seems like in the wee hours of the morning, he often just wants to impart something to me. At this point, it's it's begun to probably drum up some skepticism of like, okay, man, is this really the way God works? And yet it's crazy. Uh just a couple nights ago, it happened to me again. It had been a minute since it had happened. Like in dreams, or like just like you wake up at the crazy. So just as an example, so two two nights ago, um after the porch, so we've just wrapped a Tuesday evening. And you know, some messages come so easy, but others are just a labor of love. And for whatever reason, this one was the most laborious. Like I think it was 26 hours in total prep to get to the evening. I think I read through the entire manuscript for the first time 45 minutes before I preached it. It was just like, and it wasn't like, oh, I got a new thought from God. It just was, it was just tough sledding to get across the finish line. So ended up being an amazing evening. God is so gracious to use very imperfect people to declare a perfect master. Amen. And we got to the end of it. I go home, I'm wiped, I eat dinner because I never eat before I preach. Uh, I'm fearful, you know, it might be gassy. And yet I get home and uh man, it's awesome. I uh I go to sleep, I am eager for rest. And at 2:39 in the morning, just like three hours after I'd finally closed my eyes, I wake up and my heart is racing like crazy. Uh, to the point where, and I've never done this, but I actually like clocked my heartbeat. I was like, man, am I like having a heart attack? Like, what's happening? Because I could feel it without touching my chest. And yet, so I pace it out, check the BPMs, it's fine, you know. No need to overreact Kylan. But it was just so clear to me. I was wide awake in bed. And so I'm laying there knowing that I've been in this spot before. And I'm like, okay, God, is there something then that you want to talk to me about? Because I'd love to go to sleep if not. It's real. I'm like, it's been uh it's been it's been a great, but a long evening. And yet what I prayed is I was like, God, would you pour into my heart whatever's in yours? And um what I sensed God give me, because it came over me as a rush of emotion, and I'm a passionate person, so um, so it's not unfounded for me to tear up. And yet I understood very clearly what David meant when he said, uh, my tears have been my food day and night. Well, because it felt like that moment because I was crying, trying not to wake up my wife, but like I'm I'm crying, laying my head on my pillow, because I feel like the Lord is imparting to me this thought of man, I'm I'm so saddened by the state of disenchantment within my church. And so as I start to think through, well then God, would you lead me to your scripture? And would your words substantiate these feelings? I was taken to Mark chapter 6 when Jesus is in his hometown, and he's amongst those whom he's grown up with, and it says he can do no mighty works there, and he marveled. The second time only he ever marvels in the scripture, and yet, though the first was for someone's belief, this time it's because of their disbelief. And I think he was imparting to me in that moment, and I'm praying and testing this still. So it's funny to do this now on your podcast. I'm sorry to hijack this. But um I think he was trying to impart to me, Kylan, your room is a room full of full of people that have grown up with me. And though they know me, they do not believe in me. There's a spirit of disbelief in Dallas, and I need you to do something about it. So yeah, crazy story just a couple nights ago. Wow. But it felt so kind of the Lord, and so Porches, if you're watching this, uh, we're gonna take the next sermon series after we wrap Genesis and we're gonna push it to later in the year because we're gonna actually step into this specific topic. I don't know necessarily what it's gonna look like, but we're gonna talk about the disbelief of Dallas and maybe uh maybe a people that have grown up with him. Wow.
SPEAKER_01Uh bro, that's a great place to start. Yeah, what a story. So, uh yeah, we're by the way, we're talking with Callan Perry from uh uh The Porch. He's already mentioned Porches. Y'all call people Porches?
SPEAKER_02That's what we've never called them. I've definitely never heard that one can we hold on to it? Well, and and the porch is uh it's a gathering of young adults in the city of Dallas, but man, there's there's young adults gathering across the nation through Porch Lab locations, 20 and 30 somethings, yeah. That uh Psalm 274, man.
SPEAKER_01They want to engage upon the beauty of the land, they want to seek to know him personally. So yeah. And you're you're most every Tuesday night you're speaking to those here in Dallas and then in other places. Yep, yeah. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you've been doing that for how long? Yeah, I've been here at the porch. Uh this is now the start of my third year. January 2024 was my start. Uh, so I've been the executive director since that time, but I've been around young adults for close to a decade now. Crazy young.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's good. Yeah. Uh so uh I I don't know when this will air. So hopefully uh by the time this airs, maybe porches have totally turned upside down with with their faith. Yeah, so maybe. Uh so uh, but uh just a couple weeks ago, bro, I started a sermon with that exact text. No way, yes, those two texts when Jesus marvels at uh someone for their faith. I've not found such faith. He marveled. And then I would, yeah, that line, because I was preaching, I was actually preaching on uh Ephesians 3, 20 and 21. He now to him who was able to do far abundantly, far more abundantly than all we can ask or think according to his power, the power work within us. And it was like, do we really believe this? Like, uh, I I want so that was the question. What would Jesus be more likely to be to marvel at my faith or my lack of faith? And uh man, that's a good word.
SPEAKER_02What a haunting question. Yes. I mean, that's a that scripture haunted me. It's how you know you go and you look at, I mean, Mark V is famous, yeah, because I mean, really, the end of four when Jesus calms the storm and the demoniac and uh bleeding woman in the world.
SPEAKER_01Quadruple back to back to back to back. It's amazing. It just culminates with this healing someone or raising somebody from the dead.
SPEAKER_02Like, oh my gosh, believe in this guy. Like, look at his authority over everything. And yet in each of those stories, what's fascinating is it's like in in calming the storm, his he looks at his disciples and he says, Why are you afraid, oh you of little faith? So there's disbelief, and then you see the demoniac in the townspeople after this man is is cleansed of this demon, for fear of him, they send him away. Yeah. Disbelief. Yeah, and then you get to the bleeding woman, and there's a crowd reaching for him, but only one person actually touches him. Oh, crowd. That's so crazy. And then the last is Jairus. And what this was what was again so haunting for me is Jesus shows up and the people, it says they laugh. And so what does he do? He removes disbelief from the room, takes him out of the room so that way he can perform what he came to do. And then you get him in his hometown where everyone disbelieves. And the response to that is he performed no mighty works there. And I'm like, goodness God, I do not want to be a part of a ministry. I don't want to be a part of a generation where we don't see you perform the mighty works we know you're capable of. Yes, yes, yes. I want to see all you want to do. That's exact that's exactly it, bro. So, anyways, that's that's where I've been. And then the reason it felt so tailored from God, again, God is He's just so sovereign in the way that He works because uh start of the New Year, I really wanted to sit in the Kings because I've read through them time and time again, but like, man, I want to go slow and I want to understand what really happens in in the Kings and the Chronicles and then into the rest of the history of Israel. And so, like, I'm taking my time through the kings, and I literally just wrapped uh the life of Elijah and uh the story of him with the widow of Zarephath, and then you get to Elisha and his interaction with Naaman, the leper. And if you read the same account, Jesus in his hometown, but you go to one of the other gospels, because it's actually recounted in all the gospels, you go to Luke chapter four, what you find is he references both the widow of Zareph, and then he also references Naaman. Well, and it's like, oh my gosh, God, you wanted this for me. Yes, so before you anybody else, you want it from you want it for me. And so it's caused me to really question I believe I believe. But God, would you search me and know me and help me to realize if I don't, in fact, believe to the degree that I should. It's not about all the amount of your faith, it's about the object of your faith. And so therefore, Jesus, let me get my eyes on you. I'm dominating the mind. So it was just whatever, bro. Blowing my mind.
SPEAKER_01There's so much there. Yeah. Uh uh, I believe help my unbelief. Like that's that's uh I feel that. I feel that. Like I do, I I believe, and I don't want help my unbelief. Yeah, I just want even uh Ephesians 3, 19, right before that, that we might be filled with all the fullness of God. That's what I want, I want, I want more. Like I want all of them. I want to see all that he wants to do in my life. I want to experience that all through my life, around my life, in my family, in the church. Uh yes, bro. Yeah, man. So, and I love uh yeah, that it was interesting. We were having, we were recording another episode with Andy Davis. He talked about that Mark Vessage. Remember that? Uh he talked about how uh how uh Jesus he goes across the lake and just for this one guy that's so intentional, and then he leaves. And it like his love, like he loved me and gave himself for me. But the way the Lord woke you up uh in that way, and I I love you you saying, yeah, this is for porch, this is for people in doubt. This is me for me first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't know, like I think, and I want to be careful of just like painting in broad strokes, but I think sometimes, and I think this is why some of our generation can feel disenchanted with the church, is it feels like uh the pastors in an ivory tower, they're the exception to the rule of goodness. No, like I am not in any way exempt from this stuff. Like, I I'm often where does conviction come from? It comes from a place of personal application before public declaration. And so, God, I'm praying you would work this into me before you work it into anybody else because I want to preach out of gratitude for the work having been accomplished that I'm asking you now to accomplish for others.
SPEAKER_00So, anyways, man, I think that's so crazy is like you saying that the disenchantment in Dallas, but I think it's just the South. Like I'm from Houston. Yeah, it's the Bible belt. It's it's people who know how to do church, like they know how to show up.
SPEAKER_01It's wherever Christianity is comfortable. Yep, exactly. It's hometown or cultural, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah, yes, yes, yeah. But even more familiar when when he's when Jesus is on his way to heal Jairus' daughter, he the the woman in the crowd touches him. That I've never even thought about that until you just brought it up. These people are still cheering for him. They're like, Who's this guy? Like, I want to I want to see this guy, yeah, but that's not faith. Like that's not that's not actual faith. They're just they're they're amazed by some novelty of it, but they don't actually believe. They want to see, but they don't, they're not, their hearts aren't actually intended towards, man, who is this guy? I want to put my trust and my faith in him. It's just the hype of the newest thing. I've never thought about it.
SPEAKER_02Which is that way. Okay, so like that, that's such a great point. Because it it makes me think about something that's that's true in the scripture about faith that I think we often misunderstand in the South. Um, I've said it like this, so it's on the top of my mind just because I I've said this statement before. Um Faith isn't just a mentality we adopt, it's a reality we experience. And what I mean by that is this Jesus never looks at anybody and is like, what is your faith? He doesn't want you to conceptually braind what you believe. What does he ask? Where is your faith? There's something demonstrable about it. You know? Yeah, like it's not just it's not just what I know. It's what I believe. That's good. It's what I trust to use your word, which is exactly right. It's like, man, it's not just that this guy is amazing, because that's also to come back to this story about him in his hometown. They were amazed at what he said when he opened the scroll of Isaiah and he told them today it's been fulfilled in your presence. They were amazed at his teaching in Luke 4, and yet he goes on, and they try to throw him off a cliff, you know, because they're like, hold on, brother. Like, we we like the way you talk, but we don't know that we like the way you're asking us to live. And I think that that's so convicting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So, man, I so this is this is two nights ago. Two nights ago. Okay, so I know this is still fresh. Yeah, I totally had not planned on talking about this at all, but I just want to lean in here. I just think, okay, so and I and I do want uh us to think about especially all that you're doing when it comes to next generation, 18 to 25, 30 year olds. Is that about what the main 20s and 30s? Okay, yeah, it's great. Um, so I do want us to, but let before we jump there, I think we'd miss the point if we just jumped right there. Like in our lives, so you're only two days into this. Uh like, but I I mean I've been processing the same thing. Like, so let's just the three of us process this for a little bit in our own lives. Like, what is what are the greatest enemies the three of us are facing when it comes to our faith? Like, what what is contributing to lack of faith? Uh, that that Jesus might marvel at. I'm just asking that question for us to dive into. I guess we're gonna have just you know what where where does that that word from the Lord, like where does that hit home for us? Like I think like for me, I I think one contributor is just uh uh a a fear that comes with lack of control. Like there are some things in my life that I really want to fix that I can't fix. And I think where I'm struggling is like all my efforts to fix it, I'm afraid of what will happen. Um I think that's probably contributing to a lack of faith.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02What about you guys? For myself, yeah. Um Like I f I have this and I think fear is the right word, man. Like I think when you said that, it just felt like the right diagnostic. It was like that's that's the that's the question. What do you fear? Um I fear living a life that doesn't matter, man. Which sounds so I don't know, ambiguous. But um I think this is true for so many young adults, especially young Christians that have grown up underneath the guidance of generational voices. I mean, like you did. Yeah, it's true. We see people that have had uh by the Spirit of God so credit to him and Hillal and an immense amount of impact in the world. And I think having seen that good done in my own life, I want so badly for that to happen through my life to other people, and yet I fear my life not measuring out to the amount of matter I want it to make. Does that make sense? Yeah, so that's to that diagnostic of like, what do you fear?
SPEAKER_00Bro, that's it for me, man. Bro, you're reading my mail. I mean, that's I think fear of man can manifest in different ways. So I was meeting with my mentor and he was like, Hey, what are you struggling with? You know, what can I pray for you about? I'm like, ah, fear of man. He's like, All right, that's a little too general. And so we started unpacking it, and just like you were saying, I think it's a fear within me that I'm not impressive enough.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like I need my life, I need my name to be impressive in order to matter, to count for the kingdom of God. And I think that I mean, that stems from a lot of just like growing up, feeling like I always need to achieve and achieve and be successful. And uh yeah, the Lord is just showing me like something that I felt like he he said to me a few months ago. Uh was that he was telling me because I was struggling with the exact same thing. I just didn't know how to verbalize it at the time. But I felt like the Lord said, I will make my name great in the city of Austin when you stop trying to make your name known. Yeah, it's good. Finally got it out. But that's exactly what I'm feeling like. God is gonna make his name known in the city of Austin. But he needs me, if if and it's not he doesn't need me to do it, but if I want to be partnering with God in this, he needs me to understand that it's him. Yeah, it's not me. It's not about me being impressive or me making my name great. Like it's him, it's his name. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know what else comes to my mind there? This part of what I struggle with, and it relates to what both of you guys have said. Uh uh, it's not even ultimately in what I do, but who I am. We talk all the time, it feels like on this podcast about identity and how being rooted in Christ is so I because I'm sitting here thinking about Galatians 2.20. Like I've been crucified with Christ, I no longer live. Christ lives in me. And the life I live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me. So yeah, I I'm I'm dead to myself, uh living in Christ by faith. And but this is who I am. I just am trusting in him. And and then I'm free from uh uh thinking, yeah, I'm free from the uh constant attempt. I mean, this is one of the things I've been concerned about even with radical for years. Like in my own life or in anybody else who reads a book or comes across uh some of the stuff we do, like you'll never be like radical enough. When are you gonna do enough to make your life really count? Like, I mean, it's like an endless, but it that's why we I certainly don't need to root ourselves there, but to ground ourselves in who we are in Christ. And but this is who I am. I'm somebody who lives by faith. I trust in Jesus with every facet of my life. Um, but yeah, fear man can rob us to that. It's so good.
SPEAKER_02I mean, like I think, and again, we're we're kind of representing our generation, but man, I'm sure it's true across the history of humanity, you know. Like, I uh but I think it's particularly prevalent for us because we've just been raised in this digital age. Yeah, and so we have so much exposure to the exploits of men. And so what happens is like all we see are these lag measures, you know, like the kind of success that someone's having. And yet I remember years ago, God being like, Hey, I'm not asking you to be successful, I'm just asking you to be faithful. Stop worrying about the lag measures, start worrying about the lead measure, you know.
SPEAKER_01Uh so how do you guys fight that? How do you uh like, yeah, I mean, how do we fight that? Yes, but I I would love to know, yeah. Having been how how old are you, Kevin?
SPEAKER_02Uh I am uh I'm I'm 34. Okay. Two days ago. Oh, happy birthday, man.
SPEAKER_01Two days gonna be dead. That's what it's gonna be dream on your birthday, or not dream, but technically the the the next two hours after close enough, man. The night, yeah, that's really good.
SPEAKER_02I got out of my Jesus here. You know, the pressure of 33 was finally off, and God is like, okay, now we can get back to work.
SPEAKER_01So yeah. But yeah, I mean you when when you think about all the and you see it obviously in those uh around you, those you're ministering to, like, uh, yeah, how do we fight against uh some of the that uh constantly looking at others and measuring yourself against that?
SPEAKER_02I mean, Austin, I would love to hear what you have to say, bro, just because the resonance of like you haven't felt the same things. Man, I would love to learn from you on this. I know for myself, I'm just reminded of what Jesus says. I hate tomorrow has enough trouble of its own. Yeah. Right. And so don't worry about it. I think ambition is always thinking about tomorrow. And it's not, I'm not in any way decrying ambition. I I am uh strongly ambitious uh to my own demise at times. And yet, like submission to God for today. Ambition for God for tomorrow. Like I'm just kind of living that mantra of like, okay, God, like I'm just gonna do well at what's right now. What's revealed to me today is I'm a husband to Brooke, I'm a father to Cash, I'm uh a minister at Watermark Community Church, and I get to lead the porch. Praise God for that. So let me do as well at these things as I can. Okay, two days ago, you give me this thing. Let me talk to these brothers about it right now and see if we can get shit out of it. But like, I don't know. I don't know what tomorrow holds. But there's there's enough trouble for it already. So why would I add to it by way of my anxiety? Let me instead just focus for right now and trust that that'll be sufficient, you know?
SPEAKER_00That is so good.
SPEAKER_02So, yeah, what would you say, Austin?
SPEAKER_00I feel like we reference this way too much on this podcast. C.S. Lewis's quote We're half-hearted creatures, that one. But it's so true. Like our desires are not too strong. They're in fact too weak. We are half-hearted creatures fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is available to us. Like an ignorant child going on making mud pies in the slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased. And so that's been resonating with me. Just like me trying to be impressive is not enough. Even if I just dedicated the next 60, 70 years of my life to try to just do big things, even for the kingdom of God. At the end of the day, if that was my entire aim, if that was all that my faith was trusting in, I would breathe my last breath. And my last thought would be it was all pointless. Because it wasn't it, the the direction of my sight was not. That's what we talked about with TA. Glancing, not not gazing. Like I was just glancing at Jesus. Oh, I'm doing this for you, God. Like I'm I'm running this race, I'm looking at him, and then and just keep on running. But no, no, no. It's about gazing, I mean beholding the Lamb of God, beholding him, and he transforms us from one degree of glory to the next. And so that's that for me has been a good reminder. Like it's not about being impressive, making an impact. Like these things will come, Lord willing, by the grace of God. It's nothing that we can do to achieve them. So good, man.
SPEAKER_02I mean, that's when David says there's one thing I ask, that will I seek after. One thing I desire. Yes. That is it's so convinced. It's not meant, it's not the main thing that I want. It's not the top thing on the list, it's the one thing. Yeah. And I think what's amazing about that, what does he want? He wants to dwell in the house of the Lord. He wants to, he wants proximity to God. He wants to enjoy the presence of God. That's where the house, that's what the house of the Lord is. And so what's amazing is one thing to desire, like he deploys all of his aim, all of that ambition. He's like, it's to this. It's not like, hey, sit back, relax, be casual in the spirit of radical, right? It's like, no, be zealous. I love they're referencing the Psalms, but the disciples look at Jesus in John 2 and they're like, zeal for the house of the Lord consumes him. Like they're like, He's in no way willing to settle for less than the life that God came to give. Yeah, he's gonna take it, they take it by force, you know. Jesus is wanting to do that, and yet we're wanting to take for other things. When the one thing, the best thing, yeah, is available instead.
SPEAKER_01And is him. It's not even zeal for good things. That's uh like I I was I'm thinking about uh uh Luke 10. Uh when Jesus says one thing is necessary and Mary has chosen the better portion, Martha uh radical about serving Jesus. Yeah, she's doing that. And he's like, Martha Marka, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things. One thing is necessary. Uh Mary's chosen the good portion. Yes, and what what she's chosen will not be taken away from her. That's right. Man, so to be that our ambition would be uh be with him, see him, gaze on him, pursue him, love him. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I yeah, I just all the languages you see to gaze, to see, to love, to enjoy. I think that that is actually the root of why we are currently experiencing, and I think it's prevalent within our generation, this spirit of disenchantment. Because it comes back to it, though we know we have not believed, we have not experienced who God is in the person of Christ. He's not just distant, dormant, dead, like he's close, near at hand. Like he's one to be enjoyed, which again, and I know y'all talk to TA about this. I'll I'll I'll leave that. No, bro, it's lean in. No, lean in of like man, I think so many in our generation, and it's it's the product, it's not even their fault, it is the product of the world in which we live, which is so relativistic. It's like, hey man, like just you live for whatever is realist to you. It's like he is the realest thing in reality. Yeah, there is none real than the God that created it all and has made himself known to the person of Jesus.
SPEAKER_01He's like real with a capital R. So enjoy him, you know?
SPEAKER_02And yet, like, how do you get near to him? It it's simply it's it's by realizing he's come near to you, you know. So, anyways, man.
SPEAKER_01Um what are some of the biggest, both in you guys' lives as well as in those around you, what are the biggest uh barriers to ex to uh experiencing him as the one thing? Uh is it distractions? Is it I mean sin, of course. Like what how does it play out? What what are the but also good things? But yeah, anyway, what comes to your mind?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I just my phone that's the first thing are phones. I mean, we really grew up with phones, like that was uh I remember the first iPhone came out when I was seven, maybe eight. Um, and like I always had a phone. I always had something to distract myself with. And I know like people can tune off their ears when they hear that. They're just like, ah, whatever, phones. No, no, no. That's a that's a huge barrier. I I knew I know a guy that he he created an app um that you have to basically if you want screen time for social media, you have to read the Bible. And in literally a weekend, because I wanted to be on social media so much, I read 40 chapters of Genesis. Are you serious? Joking in a weekend, in a weekend, and I was like, wait, wait, how long have I had this app? How much do you have to how much do you have to read before you go back to this? So every verse is a minute. So I'm like you just wanted 40 minutes. I'm just tapped and I'm just going through. I'm like, are you every verse? So I want to order some in a weekend. So I don't know. My screen time is a problem. I need to fix that. But that's an example of it.
SPEAKER_01Yes, man. Well, it yes, I mean that's all the data says that. Like we're spending four, five, three, four, five, six, seven hours on a phone, on a screen a day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, a day. A day. So I know that's the cliche answer, but for me, that's what it is.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, dude, like, I mean, the the national average for for 18 to 34 year olds is somewhere around eight hours a day, which is crazy. So, I mean, it it's interesting. Uh I think there's there's three things that keep us from experiencing like the presence of God. Um, and I think they're all rooted in one in one specific idea, which is it's really it's rooted in this thought of hard-heartedness. Like Hosea 10:12, it talks about like, hey, the time is at hand. Break up your fallowed ground, right? That the Lord may He may rain righteousness upon you. Like the time is now, but you have to break up the fallowed ground. And so, like, what leads to hard-heartedness? So I think like clutter, you know, I'm like, yeah, distractions, man. Like, what's in your life that's cluttering your ability to see Jesus clearly? And that could be anything, you know? Distractions like from your phone, distractions at the office, distractions of the opposite sex. There's so much stuff. Uh, so there's clutter. It could be like, man, hard-heartedness comes by way of uh you're cold, you know. Like what cools off your affections for God? Well, you see it through the scripture. Like, what warms your affections is his word. Think of those disciples on the road to Emmaus. Like, yeah, like were not our hearts burning, burning as he opened the word to us, you know? It's like, oh man, like, and so this is such a sidebar, but if your reading of the word is not warming you up, then you're not reading it right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so words good. So there's something to that. And then the last thing I would say is is it you can be cluttered, you could be cold, or you could be calloused. And that that idea comes from just like the sufferings of life, man. Like we live in a hard world, and I think so many people, and gosh, I talk to them every single week, young adults particularly, that they're just so calloused because life has dealt them a bad hand, because things haven't gone the way they wanted nor they thought. And so they just don't know how God can be good. And it's like, man, I think that that whenever those three things happen, you're cluttered, cold, you're calloused. It's hard to experience the goodness of God because it brings his goodness into question. But there's routes out of that, you know what I mean? Yeah, that's good, bro.
SPEAKER_01So, anyways. Man, I uh it's hard not to think about Mark IV as you're talking, just like that seed on the ground and the way it's yeah, hard. Uh and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and just all kinds of other things in the world that choke it out. I also am thinking about I've been reading just in my time of the Lord and uh Exodus, the hardening of Pharaoh's heart. And it's just like it's that point where like the I think it's when the locusts are like just destroying everything, and all his like magicians are like, let them go. Like they're destroying the whole place. He's and he still won't do it. Like a hard heart, you can't even see, even when evil people are trying to tell him to do something right, he still can't see it. But it's like, man, we can get that way. I was as I was praying, I was just like, Lord, please save me from keep me from hardness of heart. And I do think that's I mean, to go back to where this whole conversation started, the lack of faith is rooted in the hardness of heart. Yeah. You said there's ways out of that. Well, what all I mean, there's a ton of things we could talk about there, but let's just talk about the encouragement. How do you how do you get beyond some of these things? Practical ways, obviously biblical ways. Yeah. How do you how do you how do you cultivate faith?
SPEAKER_02I mean, gosh, like I I think um there's a main idea that I want to circle back to because I think it connects to what you just said. I think the the the simple and short of it for me, and Austin again, I'd love to know what you have to say, bro. But man, if you if you feel cold, how do you warm yourself up? You read his word, come close to him again, right? So I think that that one's it's like, man, read the word in a way where it feels rich. I tell people, the goal of the day is to love God more by the end of it than you did at the beginning, and his word's a key part to that. And so uh I think it makes good sense that uh the book most oft-quoted by Jesus was the Psalms. So it's funny. I think sometimes we can feel like it's not a badge of honor, but a badge of dishonor if you're in the Psalms because it feels easy and emotional. I'm like, no, man, like go there. There's something so good to it. That doesn't mean that you should omit the rest of the scriptures. But gosh, you can multiple parts of the Bible simultaneously. That's good.
SPEAKER_01It's a really good word.
SPEAKER_02Do it for your mind, but do it for your heart as well. Yes, I think that that helps with the coldness. I think with the clutter, it's like, man, if you're distracted, get devoted. Like, man, pull things out, like and things are dividing your attention, then gosh, like uh like take your attention back. This is crazy. Um attention mining is like a massive industry. Y'all aware of this? So uh I thought this was like the most interesting thing. Netflix used to ask you, are you still watching? But they don't anymore. Oh we were just watching a show the other night, and it was like the show finished, and it just was like five seconds into the next one because Netflix is trying to mine for your attention. The world's trying to mine for your attention. That's not a shot at you, Netflix. We know what you're doing, you know, like yeah, what they're all doing, yes. And that's the thing, so it's not like I need to give God. No, you've got to take your attention back before you can give God your attention again. So take it back. Like, don't let the world dictate what you do and do not think about. Yeah, you're in control of that. So take thought you're captives.
SPEAKER_01That's a good captive your thoughts. Yeah, yes, yeah. Uh just uh a super practical thing uh to just uh dive in there for a minute. I we we do like as a church family, 21 days of prayer and fasting and then at the end of the year. And there was one, two particular apps on my phone, good content, like uh sports-related content. Uh, but I just the the kind of thing that I was just too quick to check in my idle moments. And I think we're consuming too much time. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna take these off during these 22 21 days. And it was I taking that distraction away, it was so freeing in a way that I just have I'd not put the things back on. Like it's like it was it was good, but it just it was uh it's mind-numbing, mind stealing. I don't know, mind distracting for sure with good things. I mean, nothing yeah, immoral, but that's where we've gotta be able to discern between the good and best.
SPEAKER_02We we talk so much with our leaders at the porch about this idea of consecration, which doesn't get a lot of love in our modern moment, but but in the scripture, it's pretty proliferate. You see it all over the place. What is that really talking about? It's not just about giving up bad things, it's giving up good things to get more of God. So it's like, yeah, like some of this stuff is morally neutral, it's fine. Yeah, but there is reward in giving it up for a time that you might get that which is most rewarding of the world. You might get more of Jesus.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so yeah, carving stuff out. So, anyways, what do you think, bro? I mean, I I I love what you say because like good things aren't God, they can never be God. That's right. Um, I my mind goes to uh just walking with brothers and sisters who are on fire for for the king. That's really good though. Um because I have I'm not a very anxious person, like just like naturally, my state of existing is not super anxious. Um, and I remember just like this was a month ago or two months ago, and I was just having a really anxious day, and I didn't know why. And then I got around brothers and sisters doing a Bible study, and it we were just going to war for each other, praying and reading scripture, and I left, and on my drive home, I was just like rejoicing and singing songs of worship. And I'm just like, I had a moment of realization. I was like, oh my gosh, I don't feel anxious at all. And it wasn't anything that it was no step-by-step process, it was just getting around the people of God, and things broke off. Um, and I'm afraid that our generation thinks that they can loan wolf this faith thing. And God would not have had plan A be the local church if He didn't care and if if He thought that you could do it by yourself. Yeah, that's right Like His grace is sufficient for our salvation, but for sanctification, I would argue that being around people to lift you higher, call you out, consecrate, help consecrate you. Like literally, like walk you into the whole, like the holiest way you can walk with the Lord is through belonging to others where you can confess sin and you can you can lay down your burdens. We're called to bear each other's burdens. Like at the end of the day, we each have to bear our own load, but there that's literally in the same scripture is bear each other's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ. So I I think that is something that yeah, our generation struggles with so much loneliness.
SPEAKER_02Man, that's so good. And the reason why I'm like, I think one of, and this goes back to like, man, what is one of the primary contributors to disbelief? And I think sometimes one of those things can be it can actually be opposition from other believers. Yeah, people will look at you and be like, man, you're too much, or that doesn't feel wiser. Why don't you slow down? You're going too far. No, like you're not going far enough. And it's like, and I think what's cool is when you're around other other zealous believers, is you're you're spurned, you're spurred forward, right, to loving good works. Like you find yourself encouraged to keep going. I just think so often, and this is what it goes back to that thought from Mark 6, man. It's like it is the opposition of people that think they know Jesus that will often keep those who believe in Jesus from chasing after him to the extent that he doesn't like your opposite they're there, right? Your your zeal will confront their apathy. So you know what I mean? Yeah, so it's like, mate, get yourself around some zealousness.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yeah, because if you're not careful, uh others' apathy will uh oh my gosh, just dull your zeal. Yes, like I just think as we're as I'm listening to both of you talk, I I'm just like, yeah, if we're not care if we surround ourselves with cultural Christianity, then we're just gonna we'll become like what we're beholding around us in ways that are and we'll just cultivate it and it'll snowball. Like it's just so we've gotta be really careful with the kind of Christianity we're surrounding ourselves with. That's really good, man. Uh yeah, because to the Mark Six text that uh obviously the Lord has orchestrated this conversation revolver no nobody planned certainly three days ago. Um, but um yeah, all yeah, if you're in that town, you're like, yeah, who's this guy? I don't believe. Oh, I don't believe either. Like, and if we're not careful, this is that can actually be our if we're surrounding ourselves with a church that's pretty comfortable, casual, cultural Christianity, then okay, that's not gonna be we need the body of Christ. But that's right.
SPEAKER_00I mean, just that's that's where joy is found. Like it's to it, it makes it easier to get into the presence of God when you have believers around you with faith that it is easy to get into the presence of God. And when you were sharing that, I was just thinking, like, yeah, I'm God burdened my heart for the loss in Austin, Texas, like two, three years ago now at this point. And so like I had this dream to like start evangelizing. I just want to go down Sixth Street and just preach the gospel. But everyone I told was like, oh, that's great. Yeah, like I don't really want to do that. Um, but you do it. And so that what does that do to me? You know, if no one around me is doing that, I feel like I don't belong in this city, I feel like I'm the only one who cares. We've talked about this in in episodes in the past, like that stirred in me and uh a distrust and a sour taste in my mouth for the local church. So it made me stop trusting. Like, I can't, if they're not gonna care about what I'm doing, I'm gonna just go do it myself. And and the Lord has continued to heal me in that and show me, like, hey, here are some people, here is a church that believes in what you're trying to do, not because you have this novel idea, but because you are aligning yourself with my mission. Like I'm in seminary right now and I'm learning about like the mission of God. And it's just so awesome to now read scripture through a missional hermeneutic, which I didn't know was I didn't know what hermeneutic meant before I started the course.
SPEAKER_01Uh, but I'm not gonna put the pressure on you to define it either, bro.
SPEAKER_00Just I think of it as a lens through which we read scripture. There you go. Um, but I'm just I'm reading scripture now through that lens, and I'm just like, it is so evident that God is calling us to be on mission with him because it's his mission. It's been his mission from Genesis to Revelation, Old Testament to New Testament. Like the mission of God has has been there and and he's inviting us into that. So good, dude.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it's it's like a modern misconception. It's really it's it's a mistake in myssiology. Like we get this idea of like, hey, you're in the world, but you're not of the world. That's not what Jesus said. He's like, You're not of the world, you're sent into the world. So good. And it's like, man, so many Christians they don't want to get the world on them. And it's like, brother, sister, even sent into it. And that requires a level of zeal. You've got to move with purpose. You know? Yeah. Like, I just think about man goodness, what is spoken in I think is is it Revelation 3 to the Church of Laodicea? He's like, You're neither hot nor cold nor cold. You're lukewarm, but spity from my mouth. Because lukewarm water has no use. Hum water, cold water, at least they're useful. But tapid water is useless. But what's his response? He tells them he's like, repent and be zealous again. That's the that's the conclusion.
SPEAKER_01And and I'm standing at the door and knocking. Like I want to, I mean, what we've talked about never the one thing, like I just I this is Jesus saying I want to be with you. Yeah. Like, and and yeah, I want to invite you to be with me, like us to feast together, go back to your joy, half-hearted creatures. Like uh this is life, yeah. Um uh but that's good. That's I as as you're saying that, I'm just thinking about I think so many times, and yes, it we all we have different personalities, it's gonna look manifest itself differently in different personalities, but zeal is not like uh just a personality trait, like uh yeah, zeal for the house of the Lord, zeal for the presence of the Lord, zeal for the things of the Lord, zeal for the Lord, period. Like that's that should be a marker.
SPEAKER_02And it's interesting you say like personality type is one of the things people use to excuse themselves for. Oh, man, I'm just we're just not my personal building. And it's like, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, like what if you believe in Christ, the spirit has been poured into you. What does the spirit exist to do so much but glorify He that He that sent him? So it's like, oh my gosh, the Spirit is here to glorify Christ. So it's not a matter of personality differences or gift mixes. It's like, goodness no, like we have been called to the same mission because we have been saved by the same God.
SPEAKER_01And it's actually beautiful when uh the body of Christ with all of its different personalities and gifts and skills all has that zeal, and so it's manifesting itself in all these different ways, but it's it's not zeal for a few, it's like a shared zeal in the whole body. That's a beautiful with all of its creative expressions and the way the Holy Spirit leads us to play that out in different ways through different jobs, through different routes.
SPEAKER_02That's right. Yeah, I mean, and that's so we've been working through the book of Genesis at the porch, and uh you know, you open up one and two, and so you find yourself talking about the Imago Day and the cultural mandate. Like, what does God put us here for? And the reality is like, uh, you know, it's like, yes, plurality. Like, you need to, you gotta multiply man, but you also should diversify because it's not possible, it's actually it's so arrogant for any one type of person to think that they can image the fullness of God in his entirety. It's like, no, like we need to be different from each other. There needs to be not just a plurality, but a diversity in the expression of the body of Christ. And so that's why I I love it. Like, I look across our room on Tuesdays, I look at my team at work, and um, if you're listening in, you can look at those around you, they're different than you. Can you and you can realize, man, our maturity depends on this, on the fact that we're diverse from each other, that we're not the same. It didn't call us to uniformity to look the same, it called us to unity.
SPEAKER_00That's so good. And and if I can, like I just want to also caution someone listening to this because I I can I can just sense that someone might be listening to this and be like, yeah, let's all good get super zealous, like let's all jump around and worship and do and the people that aren't doing that are not doing it right. And I just want to caution that person listening because I was that person, and I look around a room and nobody's hands are up, and I'm like, nobody here wants God. How am I supposed to know that? Just because their hands aren't up, just because they aren't jumping around? No, no, no, like and as if the hands up means that's authentic. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's right. And so, so you know, let's invite people into it genuinely. And and I do believe like physical representation can manifest like I mean it it shows the faith in in a way, but let's not let's not be the ones who are super zealous and attend a church service and look around the room and and not think people are being zealous and judge them. No, no, no. You go for the Lord and your faith will become contagious to the people around you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's infectious, isn't it? Yeah, it's I think that's so good. It's not like he who lifts his hands the highest or beats his fists the hardest, or I I correct me if y'all disagree with this. I think zeal often looks like a burden to people that are burdened because they've beheld the beauty of God. And it just it's changed something about them. And that's the thing, it doesn't have to look a specific way, but it should be it should be burdened to a point where there's an intensity to you, but intensity looks different upon everybody. I think, and this is just an encouragement. I keep just it's so man, it's just such a grace from the spirit to keep kind of connecting the dots back to what we first thought. Yeah. Five times someone watching this is gonna correct me. Maybe it's more or less.
SPEAKER_01Around five times.
SPEAKER_02He says, Oh, you a little faith. But every time it's to his disciples, it's to his followers, it's to the people that they have seen him and known him. That maybe the object of their faith just got misplaced for a moment. And it's not a it's not a he's not disappointed, frustrated, mad. He's correcting for our good. He's reminding us, hey, believe in me properly in order to do so. But you need to see me correctly. I'm not just master, teacher, I'm Lord, savior.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, so man, I'll tell you where else my mind's going as you're saying that. Back to Mark 4, which you mentioned, the calm in the storm, uh, because I'm just thinking about how the disciples were afraid in the storm, and Jesus is asleep. And so they're afraid because they're a lack of faith. And then he stands up and just like yawns and goes, peace be still, and all of a sudden it stops. And then it says they were really afraid. So because they real so they went from fear for lack of faith to fear because of faith. They realized who this is. Only the the wind and the waves obey this. Oh, and that's all only God can do that. So uh man, for a true fear. The other text that keeps coming to my mind is Isaiah 66, 1 and 2. He marveled at their faith. This is the one I esteem. He is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at my word. Like there's a humility, contrition of spirit, and a trembling at his word that marks the one who the Lord esteems. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And delights in the one he looks upon.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02It's like, oh, let me God be someone you look upon. Yeah. You know, it's really good, man.
SPEAKER_01God make us people who you look upon this way and you marvel only by your grace. We man, I was in the conversation in our church group and our like our small groups in our church last night with uh, and we were talking about this. We gotta ask for faith like this. It's a gift. We need like uh yeah, oh for grace to trust you more, like the hymn says, like, God, please give us. Help my unbelief. Um so, bro, can you pray for us for everybody listening? Well, however, the spirit leads you, but yeah, all the way back to Mark 6. I'd love to pray. Uh I think the Lord has clearly led us there in a way only He could have and man, and Lord, do whatever you want in them at 2 39 tonight in every one of our lives to uh yeah. Anyway, yeah, would you pray, bro? I would love to. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02God, it is so good to be near to you. I know God oftentimes the ways of the world and the things that we deal with, it could convince us that we're not as near as we think, and yet, God, we know we're near. We're particularly near God when we pray to you. What other nation is so great as to have the Lord near to them as we do when we pray? And so, God, we know you're near to us now, but we thank you that that's the case. God, we're grateful, like just the time we've had here and the fruit of the conversation, God. It's not because of uh any intelligence or insight. We had to bring to the table, God, genuinely. I mean, it was birthed out of just what you were doing in one of our lives, but then at the same time simultaneously in the three of us. And God, what we realize in the midst of that is you care deeply about us, and you, God, are wanting us to see you and see you more. Yes, God. Yes, and so God, we want to ask for that. Yes, God, we want to see you more clearly, please. Fully. Oh, God, please, Jesus. We know that we have received everything in Christ, and yet we know that we can be being filled in the spirit. There is more to also enjoy, more of you to have. And God, it's not out of a spirit of dissatisfaction that we ask for more. No, God, we have tasted and seen that you're good. And so we want to taste and see more of your goodness. And so, God, we pray, please, won't you help us to see you as you should be seen and respond to you, God, rightly? I pray for the three of us here. And God, anyone that just, man, it feels like we're reading their mail as we have this conversation. I pray, God, for those listening in or watching along, God, I just ask, would you make us a people whom you marvel at the belief of that need you not to come to our house to heal our servant, but just say, if you would only give but a word, yeah, yes, yes. I pray, God, that we would not be too familiar with you, that we lose faith in you. But pray that God, for those of us whom have grown up with you, we God would not look like Nazareth. But God, we would look like your people, a people whom you've called to yourself that are following you today. So, Jesus, we just ask, have your way in us, please. Yes, thanks for just how good you are, how magnificent you are. And we pray, would you be only all the better and all the more magnificent to us, please? We pray in Christ's name.
SPEAKER_01Amen. Amen. Amen.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for watching this episode of Everyday Radical. We pray that it encourages you to follow Jesus more faithfully and make him known everywhere. Be sure to hit that like and subscribe button, and we'll see you in the next one.