WORLD CUP ETC - FEATURE SERIES: Positions & Their Roles - The Striker

Starting a new mini-series, Declan Link & Jon Bonfiglio take an in-depth look at positions, their identities and psychology, via some of the most notable international players to take on these roles. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Everyone, welcome back to World Cup, etc. with me, John Bonfiglio in Mexico. And today we are joined by uh striker extraordinaire, Declan Link in Orlando, uh, Florida. We're gonna be talking about the role of the forward, the center forward, the striker, the finisher uh to today. And it's the beginning of a of a short series that we're gonna we're gonna be doing over the next few weeks in which we do a sort of a focus on different positions in um uh on the football field because I thought I think we feel we hear a lot about, we think we know a lot about different positions, but actually sort of breaking down not just what a role is, but also the sort of the vagaries and the distinctions about how these roles are understood um might be interesting. And where better to begin than with with Declan Link, uh who spent uh much of his pretty um uh not the fully top end of things, of course, Declan, but but you know, you you you you had a career, didn't you? You had a a career you can point to as a as a striker, is that fair to say?

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah, I'd say I was quite a good fox in the box, as they say. I was uh ultimately anyone who plays in a forward position or as a striker, it's very simple what uh what they need to do, and that is stick the court back of the net. And of course, the years I was playing, yeah, I was able to be in the right place at the right time, and um, you know, definitely scored a few goals at a time.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Well, because the right place in the right time is definitely an aspect of of uh of a centre forward. But um, I think there's lots of other um aspects as well that we'll we'll we'll come to. And I think the fact that you described your role as a fox in the box in and of itself tells us the kind of um the kind of player that you were, the kind of role that you took on. But let's start if it's okay, Declan. I'm gonna give you some names of centre forwards. Um, if you can just give us a reaction, some thoughts on when you imagine uh said individual. Let's start with a classic, another classic fox in the box. Uh, I think uh potentially, if not, England's finest ever centre forward, and certainly in the top two, Gary Lineker.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Gary Lineker, one of my absolute heroes. Uh, I actually played in a game against Leicester City in the early parts of my career when it was playing for Wiccan Wanderers, and it was the centenary of Wickham Wanderers, and the uh opposition was Leicester City, of which Gary Nenick had played in the first half. Um, obviously, he was a true fox in the box, somewhat different sort of style player to myself in some respects, because I was more of a target man, and he was more of a um a sly, cunning fox. And um, you know, obviously we remember him for the uh the the goals he scored for for England, particularly in the Mexico 86 World Cup and in Italy in 1990, and then in his um football career in in England in the old football league. So yeah, but definitely one of my heroes, and uh obviously he he managed to convert his great soccer career, football career, into uh making millions and millions out of the BBC in England presenting match of the day.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

And annoying Israel.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

And annoying Israel, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Um listen, one of the things I think about Gary Lineker is that um so you've definitely got your target man and then you've got your your finisher. Lineker did not hold the ball up. He was he was an incredible reader of the game. What strikes me as being um unique about strikers like Gary Lineker is that you don't read the game as it is, you you almost predict you have to read the game as it will be at a particular point in time in the next five seconds, ten seconds, whatever it might be. And as a result, the this sort of almost uncanny positioning and timing of the likes of strikers like Gary Lineker is really something it's it's almost um you're it's almost Nostradamorish, Nostradamus ish in the sense of um you have you have to you have to predict what it is that's going to happen at some point in the future.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Yeah, I mean I I I think of strikers as coming in probably five different types of modern strikers, and the first type of striker attacker is what probably would be loosely termed the the Gary Lenick style or the Filippo Ingaz Inzagi style, and that's the poacher. Uh, and and the poacher basically is exceptionally positioned in and around the box, doesn't score goals from a long way out, has very quick reactions, is very very quick over you know five or six yards, uh, has minimal touches, uh, but the ball effectively ends up in the back of the net. So I would definitely characterize uh Gary Lineker as as a poacher. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 5:41

Yeah, and and actually, if I think about Gary Lineker playing football again in my mind's eye, I don't remember him ever passing the ball to anybody. You the image of Gary Lineker is of him in the in the uh six-yard box finishing. That's about the the sum of of uh of his parts, if if you like. Um, as regards uh other names, maybe we can go to Dennis Bergkamp.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Yeah, the name Dennis Bergkamp, you immediately think of that incredible goal he scored for Arsenal against Newcastle where he swivelled and knocked past the goalkeeper. Again, a completely different type of um of striker from your traditional poacher, um, target man, force nine, sort of press modern day pressing forward. Um, but uh you know he played up front with Thierry Henry, and Thierry Henry was what I would call like almost like the the complete forward, meaning that he scores all types of goals. He uh he assists teammates and physically and technically and pace-wise was so fast. Dennis Burkham was sort of like he had uh all these uh silky skills, his technical touch was fantastic, and he could score goals and he could assist with goals and um you know complimented whoever he could play up front with. When I was playing, I had a fella who uh played with me at Wickham Wanderers called Simon Reed, and it neither of us were big traditional six foot one, six foot two, six foot three, tall center forwards. But we we had a chemistry, we were on the same page, and we were able to find spaces, we were able to work together with combination play, and Dennis Burkamp would be a dream player to play with, uh, not only for the Arsenal team, where obviously most of his professional career was spent, but obviously with the Dutch, the Netherlands national team as well. So, yeah, I mean Dennis Burkamp again, absolutely sensational. Sensational player in his time, didn't like flying though. It was a bit of a problem because I think it was the World Cup in 1994 when uh the Netherlands were here in Orlando. Uh he had a bad experience with an aeroplane. So after that, when Arsenal were playing in European games over the years, the the follow following years, they used to have to drive him to games rather than go on the flame with the rest of the players. I don't know if you knew that fact, John.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Yeah, I did. I do remember that. Every striker, well, every player has to have a weakness, and um, I guess it's kind of prosaic for Dennis Bergkamp's to be the fact that he didn't like flying. Um there's something I think you're you're you're right. There's almost this sort of that the link up play of Bergkamp, but the fact that he he was a really complete player as well, and the balance and the touch of the man, I would put, I don't know whether what you would call his kind of um striker decline, but I would put Teddy Sheringham in as a similar kind of as having sort of similar touches and instincts as Bergkamp.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Yeah, very much so. Absolutely, very much so. I mean, in the same way that um you started off talking about Gary Lineker. Peter Beardsley type of player was like a Gary Lineker. No question. The way that Teddy Sheringham read the game, um, had good touch, had good pace, could hold the ball up, could um lay the ball off, could combine, um, could take set pieces. Um, very, very similar to Dennis Burkamp. I mean, I think probably if you want to compare the two, anyone who considers them an expert would say that Dennis Burkamp, Dennis Burkamp was just a slightly better player. But uh no, I would definitely include it uh Teddy Sheringham in that type of uh characterization of that type of player as we remember them and playing as forwards for their club teams in the national teams.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

And um, and also just going back to Gary Lineker, I thought what you said about Lineker and his his pace off a standing start. So the first it didn't have to be particularly fast over a 50-yard period, but just um the speed with which to beat get ahead of the defender in a four or five-yard uh meter space was crucial. Whereas I think one of the interesting things about the likes of Sheringham, I mean I remember Sheringham being basically a journeyman footballer, and then he got really, really good as he got older, almost as he lost a bit of pace. And I would argue the same is true of Bergkamp, but actually the maturity and the experience of reading of the game and the touch and the link up play made them almost become vintage, develop into vintage footballers later in their careers.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Yeah, and and again, you know, that when you when you um when you get into the twilight latter stages of your career, quite often you tend to move backwards if you want to keep playing, and you end up playing as maybe a holding midfield player or a central defender, so you don't have to to run as much. And I I remember obviously with the 32 years I did as the assistant uh football software coach at Rollins uh with Keith Buckley, uh I remember it used to really annoy him so much where we would play six on six v6, six v6v6, and I was in my 50s, and although I couldn't run, I was this little blob, I still ended up scoring more goals than the players on the team who were in the late teens and early 20s. So there's definitely a mindset, and you have to it it's not something that you can necessarily really learn. You're either born with it or you're not born with it, in my humble opinion.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Yeah, I would say it's almost like poker by that stage of the situation, where you've been around long enough, you have the instincts, especially that kind of the Burkham Sharingham sort of figure. You you're an in what would be termed an intelligent footballer, but you've been around the block enough to know which way the defender's going to turn. And so the speed is less important than the preempting, almost a sort of uh yeah, gonna get back to poker or risk, or you're you're actually mapping out a situation before it happens.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Yeah, and obviously, I've taken a bit of flack from uh my friends over here about how I was going on and on about seeing Messi play live uh nearly two weeks ago when into Miami were here in town. But honestly, watching Messi at 38 years old now, he's obviously still in good shape, but he's you know, Father Time has has caught up with him. But the way he had a free roll, he had a free reign to go wherever he wanted to go, he was so so intelligent with where his position behind the central defenders, to the left of one, to the right of the other, dropped deep into a false nine situation. Uh, even at the MLS level at 38 years old, he looks like he was completely different class to the uh to the opposition defenders. And again, that's not because he physically he physically can't compete with these young athletic types over here, but he's so smart and so canny, you know, he uses his head, his soccer brain, as they call it, to find spaces to um to exploit. And it was great seeing that happen up close uh at the game the other week.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Yeah, and actually watching Messi now, how he sort of floats in space and finds a gap, it reminds me of Zinedin Zidane towards the end of his career as well, where the when you think about a sort of fully functioning football side, there's it's there's almost a lung action, an inhaling, an exhaling, and the team sort of flows to that rhythm. Whereas Zidane towards the end of his career and Messi, they do something slightly different, they they exist um outside of that of those rhythms, they find the space. Um, they could not do anything for 10 minutes potentially, just walk around a particular area, and then there's a spark, and then there's the magic.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

It it's interesting how you started talking about uh Gary Leneker and you mentioned Dennis Burkhap. And um, you know, if you look at if we relate it to the World Cups, the the top goalscorers uh historically in in World Cups are A ones who played in four World Cups or three World Cups, someone like uh Miroslav Klose from Germany, who played in 2002, 2006, 2010, and 2014, and he's his all-time record is 16 goals. And then you just go down the list. Uh Ronaldo, the original Ronaldo, he played in four World Cups uh with 15 goals. Uh, the the the the uh the the very famous Gert Müller from West Germany, 14 goals, uh just 14 from Fontaine from France, 13 goals, and then you come to um you know Pelle, who scored 12 goals and wasn't anything like a traditional forward, but like Messi, who who who doesn't alphase he doesn't actually uh isn't considered in the in the top eight goal scorers of all time in World Cup finals, but Pele was a different type of striker, you know. He he played in three World Cups and ended up scoring 12 goals, whereas you can have a list of the other forwards, Jürgen Klinzman from Germany, Gabriel Batistutter from Argentina, you know, who's got 10 goals. Um, the other ones are all more sort of traditional centre forwards who are either fox in the box uh target men or or or really speedy tub of players. And the other players that get sort of honourable mentions are your your mate Gary Leneker, Killing Mbappe after the great performance he had in in Qatar in 2022, and then another of those Enigma players who's still playing strong, and we got the I don't know if seeing you last season here in Orlando, uh Thomas Mueller, who seems to go on forever and ever. That's the Peter Plan of football now, global football nowadays.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

He's about 75, isn't he? He still looks about 25. Um, there's an argument to be made, I think, for the fact that had Pele been less good, he would have scored more goals.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Yeah, I think isn't there a school of thought that said that he scored over a thousand goals or something? But a lot of those are included friendly games, training sessions, etc., etc.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Yeah, it's just it seems to me that there's when you are uh and I'm gonna say I don't think it's self, I think it's aggrandized uh aggrandizing of the man. When you are a footballing visionary, as Pele clearly was, um, you almost your instinct is to be everywhere and do everything um and not hold a position. And you could totally imagine that if he had just focused on being a center forward and limited himself to a particular part of the pitch or whatever it might be, that he would have scored a bundle more goals than than he did because he was um and again. I think it's interesting about the likes of Pele. When you think some with a lot of players, you think of them and you know what position they played in. When you think of Pele, I couldn't really tell you what position he played in.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

No, again, I think he had a free roll. I mean, he he could play as a traditional number nine, I think he could play as a traditional number ten, but I also think he could have played wide right, wide left. Uh, and obviously he was such an incredible talent. In I mean, in the same way that you know Cruyff was and Maradona was, and nowadays Messi and Ronaldo are. Um, but Pelle to me, as like I said a little on one of the previous podcasts, to see him live in his prime or towards the end of his prime games, his twilight years, was absolutely sensational. As a there's a forward, actually, who it's a shame, you know, on the global world cup and Euros and other competitions hasn't maybe got the spotlights that he deserves is uh Lewandowski, who from Barcelona, who obviously spent many years at Barcelona, who they don't talk about, but you know, he's got the scoring records for Bayern Munich, and the reason that you don't talk about him in the sort of higher echelons of world football strikers, goal scorers on an international level is because he was playing Poland and Poland had never really done anything in World Cups.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Yeah, yeah. I've got a couple of um names to add, Declan. Slightly less disgust, but I think equally unique. Um, when I say the words uh Faustino Aspria to you, what comes to mind?

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Uh very talented individual, uh Colombian superstar who ended up on Tyne side and played in that thing was a Newcastle team that was competing with uh Liverpool and uh and Manchester United. Incredibly talented player, I think if I remember rightly, if what you're looking for was his celebration, didn't he do like a backflip or something when he used to score goals?

SPEAKER_00 19:07

He was he was just so charismatic. Um, but the thing that we took which always struck me about Espria, other than the fact that he was a he was a cult figure from the moment he arrived at Newcastle, there was just something about him. But comparing him to the likes of uh Messi, Zidane, Bergkamp, Sheringham, you I I would never think of Bergkamp on the floor. Um the balance, there was a centre of balance to those footballers, to those forwards that was you they could be on the Titanic, and the Titanic would be listing to the left, about to sink under the water line, and you'd look across at Bergkamp would be standing perfectly balanced, uh, even as the ship was listing at 45 degrees. Whereas the thing about Aspria was every time I watched him play, almost every second of every match, it looked as though he was just about to collapse. And then he just had these touches which came from absolutely nowhere and were devastating. And it always struck me, I I wondered whether the reason one of the reasons why he was so devastating is because he was always so sort of wavy in his movements, defenders just didn't know what was coming.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yeah, that unpredictability that he had, and that other players of his ilk have um definitely and and you know make them enigmas and make them very memorable players. Um, you know, I I again the fact that he had a relatively successful career playing for Newcastle United and the Columbia national team means that uh I wouldn't put him as up there as one of the greatest strikers in in football history globally, but definitely one of the more memorable ones.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Totally, because uh again, when we think about strikers in particular, you you they often they can fit into gaps, but I struggle to think of another striker that was exact that was of the type of Aspria. It strikes me that he was, and it's one of the reasons why I think he was so such a cult figure, because he was like nothing else for good and ill like nothing else, not not quite like anything else we'd seen.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Yeah, no, no, no, no question, no question about it, and um I uh I I'm sure you know if you go through the the uh the famous Colombian strikers of all time, he must be up there in the top one or two, uh you know, but just because of the impact he had on his national team and the uh and he's and through throughout his Newcastle career.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

I'm gonna bring up another one now. Um uh Declan. Uh this the this kind of striker is particularly distinct, not because of their skills or how they play, but because they are loved and loathed in equal uh measure. Mario Balotelli.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Yeah, I mean, obviously an enigma, but a completely different type of enigma. I mean you know he He he was a very strong, powerful, so probably still is a unit who had all of the talent uh in the world that was given to him, but obviously you know, probably couldn't control uh his off-the-field uh uh antics sometimes, and uh, you know, was was his name was splashed in the uh in the uh in in the newspaper uh uh headlines of his time, not only for his football playing ability, but for his off-the-field antics. But again, an incredible player who who who who really stood out in both his his his club career and when he was playing for Italy. Um not one of the best Italian players of all time, but certainly one of the most memorable.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Yeah, completely infuriating because everybody knew his talent, and the person who seemed to care least about his talent of everybody was Mario Balotelli himself.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yes, and he was famous for some firework incident, if I remember rightly. Then he got fireworks inside a house or something.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

I suspect they're um it was a bit like do you remember um this is cricket now, but when I can't remember when what year it was, but uh there was a there was a tour to the Caribbean and Chris Lewis, who was also something of an enigmatic English cricketing all-rounder, he shaved his head on the first day arriving in the Caribbean and then suffered from sunstroke and was out for a week and unable to play. That's kind of classic Balatelli action.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

Yeah. Why was me?

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Why all's me? Yeah, exactly. Why does the world why does the world keep picking on me? Um uh I've got one final one for you, uh Declan. Okay. Um Eric Cantana.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Yeah, I mean, again, I don't think you can compare Balatelli to Eric Cantanar. Eric Antonar was was sensational to watch. Um obviously, after his playing career, he's gone on to become an outstanding actor. Um, he has a unique personality, the way he celebrated his goals was incredible. He was an incredible uh talent with you know incredible skills that um Alex Ferguson saw the opportunity to bring him into the Manchester United fold, French full international. And you know, the the the the classic memory for anyone uh from our vintage is you know him there with his with his with his collar sticking up, having put the ball in the back of the net with his arms up in the air. So in the age of the stain the the the only stain on his record was when he decided to get into come through fighting at Crystal Palace and take out a guy uh around his neck as he tackled him in the uh in the seats at South East Park. So, you know, sadly stained of his career, but again uh an absolute icon of of the global game.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah, and and and the aura of the man, I think, was unique. I mean, all of these grades that we've mentioned, and they're great throughout throughout history, but uh it yeah, I'd struggle to think of somebody who had um who could change a game just by being himself. And I actually think that, of course, what took place with the with a kick at the fan was horrendous and not not good for football in any way, shape, or form. But what it did underscore with Cantana, which we certainly know now and we kind of knew the time, was that for him football was a job, it was an amphitheater, but it wasn't by any stretch of the imagination his life. There were more important who he was and who he wanted to be, whether we like it or not, was um had a a place in football, but it was also much much bigger than that. So I I suspect that when he when he did the almost the sort of the honesty, the naked honesty of the man um doing that kick into the audience was that he didn't value football as much as many other professional footballers too. That he had he felt he had to make a point, and and he didn't, of course, uh he was banned for however long it was as a result.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Yeah, and there was there was a similar type of player, same sort of image, massively talented, uh uh Italian, I don't remember him, Paolo Di Canno, who played for West Ham. Yeah, you know, probably I would argue cut from the same cloth, individualistic, unique, very talented on the field, but he had a personality off the field, and like you said with uh Eric Antonov, probably football when he was out there on the pitch, it was everything, but then he had a life outside of it, and it wasn't everything. He, you know, I I I I I just remember him very clearly. Again, not one of the greatest players of all time, probably not even well, definitely not a striker, more of a midfield player, but cut from the same cough as Eric Cantana. And um, you know, when you were starting uh painting the picture of uh the memories of Eric Cantonor, I thought, hello, hello Ducania.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

Yeah, that um, I mean, we'll come to midfielders in due course, but that that those sides of Alex Ferguson, um, arguably, I mean that they were incredible footballers, but they also had that will to win that they were never defeated. And again, almost with if you think about Roy Keane as a midfielder, they were very completely different player to Cantonar, but similar in the sense of the aura that they had on the on the pitch and how they would shape the world to how it is that they wanted it to exist.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Yes, definitely. Most definitely.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Declan, that was a great chat. Really interesting. Um appreciate it as always. I'm looking forward to to working through all of the other positions on the uh on the field over the next uh over the next few weeks.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

We'll be able to turn the tables that I will be able to uh interview you, John, when we're talking about left back on the bench.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Uh so the thing about left back is I uh I once captained a football side, nowhere near uh the the uh the the sort of skill levels or success of the of yours, but I remember at the end of season once we had a um we had a drinks do as you do to sort of celebrate in this context our lack of achievements. And uh the left back came up to me after a few drinks, Ian Valentine was his name, and he said, Why did you play me at left back all season? And I said, Because you're left footed, and he said, No, I'm not. And I I hadn't noticed throughout the entire season that he was right footed, uh, which just goes to show how much attention I was paying uh to the to the defensive line.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Well, from from my career, I found I found out something quite interesting about a month ago, uh, being a member of the Wick and Wanderers uh X Players Association, and they posted the top 50 goalscorers of all time, and um there's a media sensation, he was a great player, he's a big social media guy on radio and TV. If you've ever heard of him, called Akenfenwa. Um it took him 123 extra games to join me on um the 41st top goal scorers for Wick and Wondrous. So me and Akefenwa are exactly the same uh 61 goals. Took me 96 games, it took him 96 plus 123 games for us to be at the same level for Wiccan. We've got founded out about a month ago.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

We're gonna have to get him on the podcast to discuss how how he was contributing in a more 360-degree way to what was taking place with Wiccan Wanderers and and uh then criticize you for being uh exclusively, as you said, right at the start, a Fox in the Box. Uh thanks Laura, Declan. Okay, brilliant. Thanks, John.