DISCUSSION: Argentina, Germany & Colombia Squad Selections

Declan Link, Paul Schmidt-Troschke & Jon Bonfiglio come together to discuss stories emerging from the national team selections of Argentina, Germany & Colombia.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Welcome back to World Compole, etc., with me, John Bonville, joining you from London, and alongside me today are Declan Link in Florida. Hello, Declan. Hello, John. How are you? Good, thank you. And Paul Schmidt-Troschke in Mexico. Hello, Paul. Hello, John. Hello, Declan.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Good to be here.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Yeah, hi, Sarah. Thanks for joining us again. Let's see how many times you can both interrupt uh and keep us away from the flow of the uh of the episodes today, which is also adding a great deal of uh, or at least in my brain, some comic value to the um to the episodes. And as I try and keep these discussions ongoing, and then you uh either one or the other of you jump in to uh uh to to begin a uh a discussion normally about England or as I suspect as today will happen uh Germany and the German squad selection because today we're going to be discussing the uh yeah the selections, specifically Argentina, Colombia, and we're also gonna revisit the Germany selection because our friend PST Porsche Mitroschka has some uh added lucidity to share with us all about the about aspects of the German squad. Let's start with the inevitable big news story though today. Well, not today, of the of the week, Argentina and uh the selection, unsurprising, I guess, uh Leo Messi, because definitely we worried a few uh episodes ago that his his injury meant that he might not make it. But now we've been reminded that even if Messi had severed his leg above the knee, he would probably still be named in the Argentine squad, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:04

Yes, and and I, for one, and the vast majority of football supporters around the world are very happy that he is going to be there. I think him and Ronaldo and some of the other aging stars are going to be there. Uh is they're gonna be very much a positive for the tournament. I mean, he he is set for a record of six tournaments, and it's obviously gonna be his final one at 38 years old. He's just three goals shy of the all-time World Cup goal tally of 60 goals. So that in itself would be a goal for a excuse a goal for him to accomplish. Um, and obviously Argentina are uh looking to become the third country to win back to back World Cup titles, aiming to join Italy 34 and 38, and Brazil in 58 and 62. So the narrative of uh Messi's final World Cup campaign gives uh Argentina's uh appearance uh a completely positive dimension in my in my humble opinion.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Um and w do you have any other takeaways as well from the Argentine squad selection beyond uh the you know the obvious headline of Leo Messi?

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Um one of the things that immediately comes out is that there are five Athletico Madrid players, um Halvarez Gonzalez, Thiago Almada, uh Simeoni, the player that the son of the coach, and Nahul Medina. Um there's also one shock admission. Uh that's a Real Madrid Franco Mastanunu. He's a teenage Real Madrid star. I actually haven't ever heard of him before, but it's one it that's one what they're saying is one of the most eye-catching absentees from the squad. Um so the the the squad itself you know has a lot of uh the same names that we've heard in in the previous tournaments. Um particularly Nicholas Ottomendi. I think he needs to be put out as pasture, but he's obviously still been doing it for uh Benfica last season. Uh and then the other one who I think I'm quite amazed, but he's obviously there for uh Leo Messi is Rodrigo DePaul because I watch him play for into Miami in the MLS, and obviously the standard isn't as good as the standard he's going to be playing against in uh the tournament, but he seems to be on his last legs as well. So I I um that those are the things that sort of stand out from my from from my vantage point here in Orlando.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

And Paul, would you say that um do you feel that this Argentine side has the capacity to win another World Cup or or is it a little bit shaded by this stage?

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Um I would say it is a little bit shaded, maybe. Um, so like the the only um yeah, not negative, but like uh point of criticism. Um, I would say for the Argentine squad that there is a little bit of anxiety surrounding the um the defense because um uh Christian Romero, for example, is dealing with injuries, then you have uh uh Martinez uh just returning to fitness. I mean, we spoke about that, that this can be an advantage, of course. Um, and then you have uh a little bit of uh older players, um veterans which are not in their prime anymore, um, like uh Nicolás Utamendi, um, for example. But apart from that, uh I think one thing which might be a little bit um uh yeah overstated is the importance of Messi being there. We spoke about him um uh in uh in in the last uh squad discussion that he is uh in comparison to Cristiano Ronaldo at least, um still in a very, very good shape. Um but I think he also in in his age as uh in his position uh will have some uh yeah, his fitness will have downgraded over the last four years, uh for sure. So uh Argentina cannot depend on him as they uh used to for four years ago. Um they still have a very good chance, um, but but I think that the expanded tournament uh tournament um uh style could be a disadvantage uh to Argentina because of the competition, of course.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Yeah, they might get along in the legs. If you look at their um their group, group J, so uh you got obviously Argentina, Algeria, and then they play Austria and then Jordan. Um I guess you know an ongoing question always with the these sides when they come together for a major tournament is what what side is going to turn up? Are they gonna be the sum of greater the sum of their parts? Can they sort of come together and so on? I I would have um said that this uh group that Argentina are in gate gives them um a really good opportunity to sort of ease themselves into the tournament, um Declan.

SPEAKER_02 7:06

Yes, I agree, John. And and Cole's very perceptive with the age uh issue, potential age issue, and then also the reason that Scaloni really sort of left announcing the squad as late as he did was because of uh quite a lot of players across the squad, including Martinez, the Aston Villa goalkeeper, are all coming into the squad in uh it's some not a hundred percent shape. But uh yeah, they're they're their their squad. I mean the other question, I mean the the the the group stage, I mean that it would be an absolute travesty if they don't qualify from that group, but they should be tested but not overly tested. I question whether or not they're gonna have the heart and the desire that they had in 2022 in Qatar to repeat it again because like anything in life, once you've had a taste of it, sometimes sometimes it works that you want more of it. But the fact that there are so many players who are older, getting towards the end of their careers, and they've already tasted it, they've already held the World Cup high high for Leo Messi. That I do wonder whether or not they're gonna have any that unbelievable drive and commitment to take it all the way to the final and win it a second time.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Yeah, and one of the things we saw in 2022 in in Qatar was the fact that one of the things which really drew Argentina together and sparked them was sort of adversity. We saw Leo Messi sort of behave and be angry and retaliate uh in ways that we'd never seen him do before. So arguably, if um, I guess another question would be if if there is something which can maybe get their backs against the wall and make them feel that the world is against them, then maybe that uh the that the side could really come together and um um and and and play some really strong football. But I think with Argentina, it is definitely about uh motivation. I mean, there's no questioning the football skill, it's about uh how much they want it. I think you're right, Declan, and um and I would argue that something needs to happen above and beyond the normal sort of um back and forth of tournament football to to make that take place.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

I think what's also interesting about their squad, and you know, we spoke about it in the earlier podcasts, back in the 70s and maybe the early 80s, when the international teams came together in the World Cup tournament, there was always a bit of mystique and about the unknown, you know, who's this player, what's he like, etc. etc. If you look across their squad, they have two players who actually play in Argentina, one for River Plate and one for Boca Juniors, and then one player who plays for Palmeiras in Brazil. So of the squad, 23 of them play in Europe, which is quite incredible.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Yeah, it is, it is absolutely um let's come to the German squad if we if we might. Um, Paul, the other day, of course, we we spoke at length about the inclusion, the surprise inclusion of Manuel Neuer, uh, the sort of the legendary historic goalkeeper back as first choice uh keeper for the for the German squad. What are your other uh maybe we could expand it away from from Neuer? What what what else have we learnt from the selection and how are you feeling about Germany's chances based on the uh the squad as is?

SPEAKER_00 10:33

I am quite happy with uh with the squad selection, especially compared to the term all created um by Julian Nagelsmann before in in the weeks and months before he announced the squad um finally. Um yeah, still, as I said, absolutely the right decision to um to take uh to take Meinen Leuer to his last World Cup. And uh then notably, and I mean it was this was expected, but still, if you compare um or if you think about uh Marc-André Testegen or what uh and about his legacy, it is quite uh would be quite a surprise to not see him in this year's World Cup squad. But if you um if you count in all the personal uh difficulties, especially with uh with injuries in his career, then it's definitely understandable. Um apart from that, I must say um nothing really unexpected um happened, of course. Joshua Kimmich, undisputed captain of the team, and what I really like is that apart from the controversy around um around the coach Julian Nagelsmann, everybody seems to get along great with each other in in this squad, which was definitely not the case in 2022. Um for for listeners interested, there is a uh quite fascinating documentary about uh about the 2022 World Cup. Um on I think it's Amazon Prime. Um and it's it's really not a must-watch, but it gives insights into into the inner makings uh or the inner functions of a of a former at least world-class team, um with uh with lots of uh lots of gossip, definitely, um of inner personal difficulties, with uh with open, uh very loud confrontations, and there's nothing of this um in uh four years after, uh, which is uh definitely a very, very big factor or gonna play a big factor in the success of the team. One player, although, um uh is uh I I really don't like to see in the squad is Leroy Zane. Um it seems to be that uh Nagelsmann, as every coach of course, has his personal favorites. Um, and for some reason, uh even though Leroy Sane is not playing in a top five European league, he plays at Galatazara Istanbul um since uh the last season and also didn't have a particularly good season there. Um and still Nagelsmann put him into the squad and openly voiced uh you know like uh put a little pressure on him and said that uh basically if he doesn't perform this World Cup, um that's this is his last chance to show what he's got in him because uh it's uh Lero Zane is and or can show his great talent in uh in particular moments, but his problem, same as uh with with many other great players, of course, is um consistency, and maybe he will be able to show what he is actually capable of consistently this World Cup or not, and then I don't have to see him in the squad again. Uh but apart from that, I am very, very happy. Um, especially with the forwards, we have a really really good um uh apart from Lilo Rosanet, five really good attackers. We have Maximilian Bayer from Bruce at Dortmund, then of course uh let's say the the England triangle with uh Kai Harvards playing at Arsenal, Florian Wilz at Liverpool, and Nick Waltemade at Newcastle United, who I think all started very good into the last season and then just not fell off a cliff. And in the case of Nick Waltemade, definitely he fell off a cliff, didn't score for months, and but all of them really uh finished up the season with uh with nice goals to give them a boosted confidence uh for the start of the World Cup. Uh, I actually think that all of them scored in in the last two games. Um so yeah, overall I'm quite optimistic based on based on the squad.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Paul Paul, just can I ask you a quick question? Because I'm intrigued by uh the German squad. Traditionally, is is would this be a fair statement that uh when Germany turn up at the Euros or the World Cup tournaments, that they would actually have a larger percentage of Bayern Munich players being the spine of the team in this squad of 26? There's only six Bayern Munich players. Is is that something that I'm really into, or or the fact that that players are all playing for other different European teams?

SPEAKER_00 15:20

No, you're absolutely right that uh this is definitely, I think, uh a historic low point of the percentage uh of the number of Bayern Munich players in the German squad this year. I wouldn't say that it's uh due to Bayern Munich have having a bad uh bad season or um not enough good German players, um, but it's just that the competition within the Bundesliga um this year was quite interesting. Uh you have several um players from VfB Stuttgart, for example, who is definitely not known to be a particularly top-level German club. Um, then you have uh um of course uh Borussia Dortmund with two less players than uh than Bayern Munich. So it is uh it is historically uh low, uh historically low number of uh Bayern Munich squad.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

Okay, so that means I do swimming all I'm talking about. We just had a we just had a text in from Boris from Hamburg, and he said, can you please ask Paul to stop picking on poor Li Roy Sanet?

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Oh no, that yeah, I'm I'm I'm very sorry, but uh that is uh I I would say it is a sport by now because really nobody nobody understands why why Leroy Sane is is in the squad. He's not the youngest uh one anymore. And also there are great players who definitely deserve the chance to play in the first World Cup much more, especially based on their um on their uh league record uh over the last year than Leroy Sane. Um but I mean uh if that's the only the only pick I'm gonna complain about, I'm happy I'm happy to complain about the Boris and Hamburg is not happy, and uh maybe that's his dad was maybe that's his dad or something.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

But uh we'll take your uh your version that everyone in Germany is not happy he's in the squad. Sean, over to you.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Yeah, there's definitely been quite a bit of um Leroy Sane bashing in this uh in this episode from Portugal Troschka. But to be fair, that does just build on the Jordan Henderson. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Uh yeah, I would receive from what you're saying is Leroy Sane is our our Jordan Henderson.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

What I'm saying is that I'm the only one of the three of us that uh currently still has moral high ground as regards uh not not bashing certain individuals. Um let's head to Colombia, um, which I think is a really interesting, partly squad selection. I mean nothing untoward or overly surprising, but it's sort of um the the general sense is that Colombia could well be uh dark horses or serious contenders for the latter stages of the of the tournament. It's this is actually only Colombia's seventh appearance in the in, of course, the the most important tournament uh on earth, but they've got a lot of sort of um uh pedigree, and they um and of course in 1986 they were due to host the tournament before it was passed over to um uh to Mexico when it was decided that Colombia were unable to sort of fulfil their their logistic duties. And um a number of times they've actually been declared as among the sort of the dark horses and the favorites um just prior to the 1994 World Cup, which we've spoken about in length, of course, uh Pele for Pele, they were amongst the favorites uh for the tournament. And of course, they had a a terrible showing, and then we've spoken again at length on the podcast about the and the killing of uh defender Andrés Escobar. So I guess my my question for you uh both, Paul, let's let's start with you if we if we might is um are they duck horses this time or will they once again flatter to deceive?

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Um hard to say. I mean, I I was amazed by Luis Diaz season this year. Um, if you are able to somehow get the ball to him um uh in front of the goal, uh your chances that he actually scores are extremely high. Um, absolutely fascinating technique, and uh just the way in in which he he is like uh let's say like finessing other defenders um is uh is amazing to be. Um then of course you have Jabis Rodriguez, uh World Cup veteran, um and all these guys, I think they they might have uh like uh might have been really, really hungry this year to um because I mean with with this expanded tournament, um you have definitely better chances to get further into the to run deeper into the tournament, right? Um and I think this squad definitely has the has the capacity to to run deeper than than they used to.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yeah, and if you look at the sort of the breakdown of games in their group as well, so they're in a group with uh with Portugal, Democratic Republic of Congo, which currently of course is struggling as regards the Ebola outbreak with uh new accompanying measures, um, and and Uzbekistan, of course, they start against Uzbekistan on the 18th of June, which is uh alongside, I think, the DR Congo. I think both of those are games that um again that Colombia can sort of ease their way into, and especially with the with the sort of the pace and the drive of the side, they should be able to uh to to they should be hypothetically at least be able to take two wins from from those. And then I think that the really big indicator of um Colombia's and to some extent Portugal's potential as well in the um see as far see how deep they can go into the tournament is the last game in group K on the 28th of June between Colombia and Portugal. I think that's really going to be an acid test. Uh, what's your instinct, Declan, as regards uh uh Colombia? Are they the real deal this time round?

SPEAKER_02 21:08

I think they have uh shades of what we were talking about with Argentina because they've definitely got some older players and uh Hamos Rodriguez. There's a theme in this World Cup. It seems like most of the squads we've spoken about are carrying an uh someone who's in football terms a senior citizen and is on on his way out because it in he went he he turned a few heads when he started playing for Minnesota United in the NLS. And my understanding is it just hasn't really worked out uh there for him, but he's still been chosen in the squad. The um I completely agree with with what Paul's saying about Luis Diazman, he's been absolutely superstar. And as a complete aside, I don't know if either of you saw any of the social media that um Janos, our German friend in Munich, um had out there in the last week or so, but he was interviewing all of the all of the uh by Munich players in the stadium in by in in in Munich uh last week. So his career is definitely looking like it's taking off. But no that Columbia-Portugal game is uh is arguably the biggest game of the group stages ever since the draw was made on December 5th last year. That's the game that they've all been talking about. That's with all of the expat Colombians and Portuguese already existing here in America, living in America, combined with all of the folks who are going to be coming over both countries. That is no question being the hot one of the hottest tickets, if not the hottest ticket. And it's the group they're in is perceived as a is a tough group because Uzbekistan in their first World Cup are no mugs and um Congo de R, we don't know what's going to happen with them, but they've got some recognized players. What I think is interesting about their group guys with you both living in Mexico is they play Uzbekistan in the Azteca in Mexico City. They play Congo de R in Guadalajara and then they don't go too far north they play Portugal in Miami Hard Rock. So um that that they're gonna be one to look for as potential dark horses but I'm not convinced they'll go the whole way.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

And just to to finish up I'm hearing uh murmurs from within the Uruguay camp the murmurs we've heard before but of general discontent with uh with Marcelo Bielsa's sort of coaching uh methods and uh and high standards all at the same time as uh Mauricio Pochettino has hailed him as a um as as a genius um Paul Uruguay can they hold it together or is it are they demonstrating signs of a potential implosion in what is just now less than two weeks ahead of the World Cup I guess that in any case um it would be completely suicidal to let anything really blow up uh because uh no matter how how it goes um if it blows up or not if you have uh yeah such big problems within within a squad uh you're basically destined to fail from the start um and to let it blow up would just give a give an even worse um public image uh and a and a pr disaster um and it still can blow up after after failure so that that would be my take it's quite it's quite interesting guys that there's still eight eight squads that haven't been announced Canada Australia Ecuador Saudi Arabia Iraq Algeria Ghana and Uruguay John so I'm wondering if your your little source of information that could be the reason why uruguay haven't actually announced their squad yet because something something's rumbling there.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Potentially potentially yeah let's keep an eye on that um uh it Bielsa infamously at a press conference a few months ago described himself as being toxic um so I guess there is I'm not saying it's a majority viewpoint but there's a there's a perspective potentially that actually what he's doing is really trying to sort of spur these these pampered um top tier Uruguayan footballers into into action I guess that is the best hope that Uruguay have at the moment because if that's not what is taking place if it's not a deliberate strategy then things could go very badly wrong for Uruguay.

SPEAKER_02 25:25

Yeah for me John can I just mention a couple of things just quickly going back to Colombia um one notable omission uh and this fellow's career is going completely the wrong direction I'm sure his bank bank manager is very happy with him but John Duran who was not that long ago playing at Aston Villa then he went to Saudi Arabia then he went to Turkey and now he's playing in Russia that's he was he he is a young man with a big bank account who should be playing in the World Cup. That's one thing you just mentioned um Maurice Pochettino since we had our um discussion about the US squad a couple of days ago he has now open talks with uh Milan about after the World Cup so again continuing the theme that he's all his mind might already be out of this whole tournament thinking about lining up his next job.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

And it's it's last thing that I call just before we we finish up tonight having just spent eighty dollars for me and Alex Link uh on return trains from Boston to the uh Boston Stadium Uber have now come out today with a flat fee shared ride um programme so basically at MetLife Boston Miami and Dallas you can get a $49 Uber per person each way it's an opportunity isn't it for um for companies to sort of to step in and um and market intelligently I was um I passed through Dublin yesterday and Dublin Airport and there was um there was a massive billboard inside the terminal sponsored by bought up by Paddy Power and the uh the advert said something along the lines of um what are we going to advertise now that we pinned all of our hopes on Ireland and they failed to qualify um and it was uh it was just a really sort of eye-catching bit of marketing strategy um I I think which sort of um which also played to sort of Irish humour and stuff and and that kind of um um you know given the um what obviously everything that we've spoken about with FIFA and prices and um just not reading the room at all uh for the last few months on on the podcast I think there are definitely opportunities for um business leaders, individuals and companies to sort of step in and present themselves as problem solvers and uh and the good guys in this whole big sorry mess.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Good shout out there to Patty Powell maybe they want to help sponsor us as well because there's another very funny ad going around online today where it includes Glenn Hoddle, Teddy Shering and Jamie O'Hara that they've been PSG fans all their lives they like Teddy Shering is dressed up as a typical French man with the baguettes on the bike he's got a I think he uh he had a veray on and he's cycling around claiming his love for PSG because obviously they're playing Arsenal in the Champions League final so Paddy Power definitely they're very creative and very original with their marketing and advertising candidates.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

There you go World Cup football etc brought to you brackets perhaps close brackets by Paddy Power.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Thank you Paul thank you Jacqueline as ever talk soon bye bye have a good evening by so that's it from us for today and if you just can't get enough of us you can support us and get access to our premium content on Patreon consisting of special interviews deep dives and QA's you will find link to our Friends of the world sports etc patron page in the show notes and of course don't forget to follow us and rate the show on all platforms your support is much appreciated.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Also check out our World Sports etc podcast for more sports news and stories and with that thank you so much for listening and goodbye.