DISCUSSION: Reviewing the Champions League Final

Declan Link, Paul Schmidt-Troschke & Jon Bonfiglio come together to digest the Champions League final, and analyse its component parts and what it means. 

Transcript

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Everyone, welcome back to World Cup Football, etc., where today we're taking a moment to come together, us three witches. My name is John Bonfiglio, and I am joining you from Valencia in Spain. And uh Declan Link is uh over in Orlando, Florida, and uh Paul Schmidt Troschka, despite the fact that he is our powerhouse of European football for footballing knowledge, is joining us from uh uh from from Mexico. Uh hello, both of you. Hello, John. Hello, John, hello day. Another day, another country. Another life. Uh yeah, and uh yes, it's uh I'd like I'd love to say it's glamorous, but uh I spend most of the last few days either on a train, a bus, or a plane. But you know do you do seven-star hotels or do you just stick to the five-star? Uh as you well know, Declan, I often do airport floors. Tonight I am with a friend, uh, so I'm I'm very happy uh about that. And um it's uh yeah, just a brief catch-up in Valencia before I get a train north to Taraguana and Barcelona to um to tomorrow. As as uh tomorrow, as I'm sure lots of people will say, it may feel glamorous, but it sure as hell doesn't feel it. Uh but you know, where we are, where we are. But the good news is that uh we've had 48 hours to digest the Champions League final. I feel it was a final that sort of needs that digesting, that we could have commented on it immediately afterwards and sort of uh given some opinions, but I think it it's a sort of it's felt to me anyway that it's been important to sort of to bed down a little bit before we came together and commented uh on it. But let's start with a general overview now. A couple of days on, of course. Uh and incredible how close this is to the World Cup as well. I mean, we're only a week away from the World Cup. It is touching distance, no space to breathe at all. But um, yeah, Daclin, maybe just sum up your perspectives of the Champions League final to start off with. Yeah, I was really looking forward to it. It was never gonna be like that first game between PSG and Bayern. Um, I don't think many games in the future are ever going to be like that, because Arsenal knew that they needed to basically keep their 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 hybrid type of shape. And uh PSG were gonna use their characteristic 4-3-3. So I thought all along that the Arsenal would be bunkering in, bunkering in, trying to get um PSG on on the counter, and uh, and obviously they scored early, some say questionably too early, and then the big million dollar question really was why didn't Arsenal go out at get them, you know, go attack them a little bit more at that point to try and get that second goal? Because to me, there was an air of inevitability that ultimately, because of PSG's press, it was relentless. That um although Arsenal's discipline was incredible and has been all season, they're the best defensive team in Europe, you know, ultimately the sustained pressure PSG um were were providing. You just have to look at the the stats. You know, Arsenal only had 28% possession in the game, PST PSG had um 72% possession. It it was sort of inevitable that sooner or later Arsenal would give up a goal. So um I was very happy with it. I watched it in the upstairs in the executive lounge at the at Harpenkelt, and it was really quite weird because there was quite a few of my Guna friends that were there, particularly Green E, crying his eyes out the whole time. Um, but there was a it was like you're passing the bat on to the new generation. There were so many pla people with um Arsenal jerseys who who were all between sort of uh 21 and 30 years old that I'd never seen before in my life. And normally in the harp, you get to you know everyone in there. So it was quite interesting from my perspective on watching the game, but all in all, it was a it was a it was a very decent game. Yeah, hopefully all those people that bought Arsenal jerseys jerseys for the first time will now put them away for another 20 years. Well, I was I was walking I was walking the dog on Saturday morning about nine o'clock in you know where the part of Orlando I live in. I saw five different people wearing Guna shirts. They'd come out of the woodwork. It was unbelievable. Yeah, look at in Valencia Airport as I was queuing to get the metro, there was um there was an old lady, there was a sort of skinny guy with question with a questionable haircut wearing a an Arsenal shirt, and uh an uh an older lady who didn't know him sort of tapped him on the shoulder and just asked him how he felt about things, and he obviously he recoiled and rolled his eyes and started recounting how it was a terrible um uh the uh slight of fate and how they didn't deserve it and um and stuff. But it seemed to me, yeah, I I didn't pipe up with your statistic, Declan, over their shoulder. I didn't feel I was invited into the conversation, but I did feel like saying, you do realize that uh Barry Saint German had 72% worth of possession, right? Because the thing is, I think a lot of the time when we get to penalties, um, of course it's a free-for-all to some extent, but I think one of the great fears of football with penalties is that an injustice is going to be done, it's that the wrong team is gonna come out. But Paul, it seems to me that um Paris Saint-Germain were the rightful winners by some distance of this Champions League trophy in 2026. Absolutely. I think that is uh um if you can say one thing then uh for sure, then it's definitely that uh PSG completely dominated the whole game, um except like a few minute a few minutes um during the overall 120 minutes where they uh slipped a little bit. But um, I mean if you look at the most basic of all statistics, ball possession, um yeah, that shows that uh Arsenal with just 26%, which is um I think the lowest ball possession um percentage Arsenal ever had in a Champions League game. Um that this is not a great sign um uh for Arsenal uh that they had any control really over that game. And uh Arsenal still was very lucky because PSG had multiple very, very good chances, which were then um not converted, not because Arsenal um in these moments at least defended uh so well, but uh yeah, PSG uh was just not lucky. But still, if you play against uh Paris Saint-Germain in a Champions League final and you managed to go into uh into penalty shootout, that still shows that you definitely um have one of the best defense uh defenses in uh in the whole of Europe, basically. Um, so Arsenal definitely proved um that. But on the other hand, what we have seen on the offensive side from Arsenal in that game was um I think um it was quite emblematic for the for the whole spirit of of the Arsenal team because um it was very badly organized, I would say, very like hastily. Um, so uh Arsenal definitely felt the pressure while per uh PSG was just um I think in themselves they had like uh instilled this kind of trust that they knew at some point we're gonna win this game if we just keep doing what we're doing. Yeah, it's definitely interesting. That had Arsenal gone 1-0 down, you would struggle to believe that they could pull it back. But of course, there was, as you say, a sense of inevitability about the fact that um Arsenal taking the lead meant that um actually I think almost everybody watching it was waiting for the moment. I think there's no question about Arsenal's resolve, about Arsenal's organization, about Arsenal's structure. But if we remove um ourselves from the fact that this was a Champions League final, let's say that this is just another game in the Premier League uh an average, an average sort of Premier League season or a Champions League um series of matches, were Arsenal to um to achieve a 26% um possession rate, Paul, you would regard that by any measures and as an embarrassment, right? Absolutely, absolutely. And that is that is quite remarkable if you if you compare the the statistics at um um at the end to the uh overall uh results of the game. Um that not only shows that as I said that Arsenal's defense still was was really really good, but they had a big portion of luck as well in there. Um and yeah, in in the penalty shootout, I think that uh there the things uh or the the the most important thing to win anything in life, I guess, uh which is self-confidence, um yeah, was very visible, or the difference in confidence of both teams was very visible. Um while uh the PSG players were yeah, had much more composure, uh even visibly, I would say. Um while uh uh Raya, the the the Arsenal keeper, he um I I liked his performance and also um yeah how how he um yeah his how he portrayed his mindset on a on a physical level. But when it came to the people who then actually um yeah had the job of uh overwhelming the um keeper of Paris George Mont. Um I mean with two missed penalties, uh that is just not enough to to win it in the end. Yeah, Ryan has the nose of a boxer, so uh I would expect him to keep uh coming off the floor and standing up again. I thought he was a standout uh figure. Declan, I have a technical footballing question for you, a theoretical footballing question, if you will. Does a top quality 4-3-3 always beat a top quality 4-4-2? I don't think that's such a sweeping statement. I don't think that's true at all because you know the game plan that Arteta has implemented this season in the Premier League is probably, if he put his hand on his heart, not the way or style he would like to play. Um I just don't think he's like that. And he's gonna have to probably change through the close season with some um upgrades in certain positions, some more depth in the squad. Uh you know, the the the personnel, and therefore he might be able to play completely differently. Um but again, PSG definitely, based on that performance on Saturday, are the are are a top quality team. I I actually thought before the game that because Ben White was the only player who was out injured, so Arsenal had their full squad there. Um but because uh of the incessant nature of of the of the PS of the PSG press, ultimately the the Arsenal worked so hard, they ended up partly because uh of yellow cards, partly because of fitness. They made the six substitutions in total, and Saka and Odegaard, who were two premier penalty takers, um, ended up being on the bench, and Havertz as well. Um, all three of them were on the bench by the time the end of the game came along. So I think Arteta's plan was to um to try and steal, pinch a win within the 90 minutes, and he hadn't necessarily accounted for the bigger picture, for extra time, the number of yellow cards, any inju injuries, and and and although I'm sure they did practice penalties in the week beforehand, I bet that he did not imagine a scenario where they went to penalties and um and they ended up missing the goal on on two of the penalties with Gab Gabriel and Esse. So, I mean, I'm not sure you could make a sweeping guaranteed answer to your question, John. Um I just think PSG are a fantastic team and Arsenal sort of showed what they're all about. I uh I mean you're looking you're absolutely right, and you you called me out absolutely correctly. I mean, I was you know, what I said was a sort of a provocative sweeping statement, but I think you've also suggested in your answer that um if you set up as a 4-4-2 uh against an absolute top quality 4-3-3, you're setting up, you're setting yourself up as a team to try and withstand wave after wave after wave of attack, and you're almost banking on the fact that you exist within the realms, within the structure of a 90-minute game, but inevitably you're sort of going to um you have limited room of movement um in terms of exactly how it is that you are set up. If it felt to me, and again, this is a top quality PSG side, who I think is also, which I think is also worth saying, didn't actually play very well at all. I thought Arsenal actually, given how they set up and given their qualities, actually had uh almost um uh I mean certainly performed to arguably to the best of their abilities, but didn't feel as though PSG didn't. I think that's my point. That's where I'm sort of pushing the button a little bit, Declan, is can you you can't really feel as though you were hard done by right if you set up in that way against a PSG and wait to try and you then try and sort of wait them out. Yeah, I was gonna say I'm not necessarily a big stats type of guy, but the reality is the stats did um did illustrate um PSG's what I would call like a suffocating control. 74% possession to Arsenal's 26%, 19 total shots for PSG to Arsenal's five. This is a very glaring number. 11 corners for PSG to Arsenal's three corners, and then four shots on target for PSG compared to the one on target for Arsenal. So those stats um say it all in many respects about how PSG really did deserve to win the game because although they didn't play particularly well, I completely concur with you there, John. I think the stats illustrate that they were were dominant without playing like uh like they know they could do. Yeah, and I think also if you think about sort of next season, of course, we've got the World Cup, which we're gonna cover in detail, and it's a big deal, and it's a sort of rupture between footballing seasons and so on. But you know, if you if you come out of it as PSG, you're you're sort of validated in your um in your decision making, in your style of play, you think we can uh we can continue with more of the same and continue to dominate European football, which they clearly have done. And and and I think Arsenal come out of that question, come out of that game with with more questions than than answers, because of course they have won the the the premiership, but I think the broader question, Paul, is uh can our Arsenal just replicate who it is that they've been this year and expect more success next year? Um that's a very very good question. I mean, if you if you look into the club history, I would definitely say no. Um because uh Arsenal is not known to be uh a team which uh is able to consecutively win the Premier League um over I think not even two years. Um not to not to say anything about multiple years or more than two years. Um so I think what the the best Arsenal um has right now is um not to see that uh yeah that champion uh everything which which happened in the Champions League and the including the final, which of course was a loss, but to to really see that overall it wasn't a loss at all. Arsenal managed to to get into the uh the the final um since uh for the for the first time since 20 years and um put up a very good fight against uh the the best team in the world right now. Um and if they manage to uh to persuade uh key players to stay with them um and try to replicate anything they they achieved um this this season, uh both in in uh in on the national and international stage, then they definitely have have a good chance to um maybe not replicate it, but at least stay in reach of replicating it. Chence, uh just as we come to the end of uh today's debrief, I have some some important news. As uh you know, our numbers are spiraling. We've had um sparring upwards, important to say, not sparring downwards, and we've had in the last few days uh by some distance our highest number of downloads per day. But guess what? Guess what news I have about our Israeli listener? He he's brought he's told his brother and his mum and dad and his sister. So we've got five listeners in Israel now. It appears that is the case. Uh we now have uh listeners in Israel in um in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. So we have um uh yeah, that there's asexual growth happening to our listenership in um in Jerusalem. Uh so please keep splitting off and uh and also don't forget because you but uh you know, you guys out there in Israel, guys and gals, you still haven't written in, so do write in and let us know uh who you are. I will also add that we are now just a week away, just over a week away from the World Cup beginning in Mexico City, where of course uh we will be, Paul Schmitroschka and myself will be in Mexico City for the opening of the the World Cup. We have a very special series of recordings taking place uh in just in advance of the World Cup and also during the uh the opening matches, and at the same time, um Declan Link will be following the England uh matches himself. So there is a lot of interesting stuff to to come up. If you uh if you haven't already uh rated us on whichever platform it is that you download the podcast, please do. And also, of course, we really appreciate you, as our Israeli friend has, uh sharing information about the World Cup football, uh, etc. Thanks, Chance, as ever, always a pleasure to speak to you both. Brilliant boys. Thanks. Thanks again. Take care, have a good evening. Thank you so much, and bye-bye. So that's it from us for today. And if you just can't get enough of us, you can support us and get access to our premium content on Patreon, consisting of special interviews, deep dives, and QA's. You will find the link to our Friends of the World Sports, etc. Patreon page in the show notes. And of course, don't forget to follow us and rate the show on all platforms. Your support is much appreciated. Also, check out our World Sports, etc. podcast for more sports news and stories. And with that, thank you so much for listening and goodbye.