DISCUSSION: England vs. Ghana

With Declan Link reporting from Boston, and Paul Schmidt-Troschke & Jon Bonfiglio in the studio, the team report and review the England vs. Ghana match.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Hi everyone, welcome back to World Cup Football, etc., where we're doing a review of the day, as uh we have been since the beginning of the of the World Cup. But uh today we uh don't have um Declan Link uh with us, although we kind of have Declan Link with us because we have a recording of his reaction to the match um between England and Ghana. But I'm very happy to say that I do have Paul Constantin, Schmidt Troschke, uh, with me. Hello, Paul.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Oh wow. Uh hello, John. Normally only my mum includes my second name when she's very angry at me and wants to make a point. Yeah, I have speaking to it as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:01

I have something similar. I think it is something about second names when you want extra emphasis, don't you?

SPEAKER_01 1:04

That um exactly that you get uh Jonathan Frederick.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

There you go. Does she get cross with you often?

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Uh not not anymore. I mean uh uh I'm with uh with increasing age I'm behaving better as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

So how does she react to music child?

SPEAKER_01 1:23

I kept it uh kept it a secret.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

Uh she doesn't listen to these.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Oh, but but I mean I I uh I exceeded um the age of her when when uh I came into her life, uh which was at uh at 24, and I'm 25 by now, so um there's nothing she can say against it. Um on a logical basis.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Well they've yeah, because obviously that's how mothers react, is logically. Yeah, yeah. Of course, of course, yeah. Um let's uh Declan obviously has been at the England Ghana match today, which uh, as we now know, in an almost infamous sense, ended up uh England nil, Ghana nil. Um and he's sent us some uh I think pretty tempered reactions, Paul. Maybe we can have a listen to to Declan's sort of survey and review of the match, and then we can we can contribute to his thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 2:13

Hello, Declan Link here from outside the uh New England Patriots, aka Foxburgh Stadium, where England and Ghana have just gone to a nil-nil draw. Uh standing outside Bar Louis, where there's a lot of England fans, and the Ghanaian fans seem to have suddenly come out of the woodwork. Um, after, from England's perspective, a very, very um disappointing evening uh playing against a team that uh showed a lot of spirit, but we should be beating 2, 3, 4-0. On the back of uh last week's convincing or fairly convincing, particularly the second half performance against uh Croatia in Dallas, everyone was expecting expectations were high. Everyone was expecting we would go at them tonight and we would uh you know manage to notch some goals. Uh the fair play to Ghana, their display was excellent. They're very, very um experienced. Uh they had a very low block, a very good defensive line. And unfortunately, Thomas Tupel and the boys did not have a very good idea of how to break them down at all. So I think Jordan Pickford really did nothing tonight. And when all is said and done, uh the Garnier goalkeeper didn't really have too much pressure on him, and it was quite frustrating because of the sideways, sideways, sideways to the left, sideways to the right, back to the central defenders, back to Pickford, straight back to the midfield players, sideways, sideways. It was the same old scenario from, in many respects, some of the most frustrating England teams under the Garrett uh Southgate regime. But um, you know, it was a really frustrating performance. Everyone's very disappointed and deflated, but that's what supporting England does to you. From an individual perspective tonight, I'm gonna call him out. Harry Kane did not turn up tonight. He did not really, he was ineffectual in the game. Now, the Ghanaian defenders are, like I said, are very well structured, they're um very organized and they're extremely athletic. And the two central defenders were very big. Um, Anthony Gordon had a bit of a shocker, to be honest with you. Again, someone's got to teach him how to how to how to cross the ball or pass the ball with his left foot. I'm not sure that Jed Spence experiment worked out, and it was very interesting because uh Thomas Tupel did not make any substitutions at half time, which was definitely disappointing. He waited till into uh the 60th plus minute to make substitutions, and we detected from the side that uh Rashford was getting quite frustrated when he only got thrown on for the last seven, eight minutes, whatever it was. And he seemed to not storm off, but he walked off by himself at the end of the game uh after the referee blew his final whistle. So um definitely food for thought with regards to Panama uh on Saturday in New York, because uh it we just wanted the Kovinski performance from England tonight, and that's not what we got. Just going on from um individual performances, right? I think um they should possibly shake it up massively, Thomas Tupper, with the game against Panama, because we were all talking about the golden boot and what a fantastic uh campaign it is with Messi Mbappy, Haaland, and um the Canadian forwards. Um so they're all in the conversation. We fully and then Ronaldo stepping up to there as well. Uh and uh we were we were really looking forward to Harry Kane taking it and running with it tonight and scoring two or three goals. And sadly, he was very disappointing. So arguably, you know, I'm a big Ivan Tony fan. I would possibly put him on as a starter on Sat against Panama. One to give him the minutes, two to shake up the Panamanian defense, and three to give old Harry Kane a kick up the backside. Secondly, there was what I would call a stone wall penalty with Conza that we were very, very lucky. England were very, very lucky to get away with um towards the end of the second half. So when all is said and done, we're still in it. It's made Saturday very interesting, but we should be better than that. And if we have aspirations of going all the way to the final and winning it, we're a mile off it based on tonight's performance. Maybe the game, the the the silly, friendly games were an aberration, and the second half against Croatia are an aberration because we need to play better. The fans demand more. We were in the middle of the England fans, and there was just frustration, exasperation all over the place based on tonight's performance. So come on, England. But Thomas, get them going for Saturday against Panama. Please, please, please.

SPEAKER_03 6:58

So that I thought that was a pretty measured response from Declan Paul, and he even pointed out that uh towards the end, Ghana could have could have won, that there was a penalty could which could very straightforwardly have been um have been given. Um, I think it is also worth pointing out that um the Ghana were they clearly had a plan. Carlos Quiro's uh uh came in with a with a with a particular sort of defensive mindset, this sort of aforementioned low block, highly organized, uh 10 men behind the ball. Um and um and they were motivated. And the thing about the low block is that you have to operate as a unit for the full duration of of the match um and not sort of uh not lose your discipline at any at any point. And Ghana did that, and I think in that sense, I mean they didn't offer much sort of creativity and ambition, but they did what they set out to do.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

Yeah, exactly. And weirdly, that's something um I have not heard too much in the in the post-game commentary all across the board, is that the biggest factor probably today was that Ghana, as he said, came into the game, uh started into the game with a very clear plan and just stuck to it, um, except for maybe two or three moments where the opportunities to just try to um to get a goal uh was um yeah, was too good. But I I had the feeling that Ghana did not go into the pitch, even with like um uh the slightest bit of we're gonna win this today. It was a clear we're not gonna lose. We're not gonna lose today. We're gonna play, we're gonna play England to a draw, and that's the only way how how we basically uh with the highest percentage um can secure um a win for us here, which is not losing. And yeah, and I think that is uh that is what um what the uh Ghanaian coach Carlos Kieros. Um am I right, John? No, uh today I I need you.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

No, no, no. The Portuguese spelling is always a little bit um contentious and is a bit harder, but uh yeah, it's it's Carlos Kiros. Um is is about as close as we're gonna get, I think. Um that's good.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

Yeah, look at that. I think it it it it is very important to understand where he comes from because he comes from train uh for from coaching underdog teams. Um I think the uh for the last years he he coached um Iran um of all teams. Um so he's very familiar with uh uh yeah, with basically um very very finely seeing or examining what uh how how he has to um to basically structure his game plan and his team um to to get the best out of there. And um if he has identified what what is the best to achieve in this game for for the team with the highest uh percentage um or the highest probability, then he just focuses on that, solely on that and that work today.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Yeah, and and also the context of the group is important. I mean, Ghana are now on four points. I mean, they beat Panama in the first in the first game, pretty unimpressive game, which we covered, but now a point against England. I mean, they could even, with a favorable results against um Croatia, they could even top the group now. So I think it was sort of a very pragmatic decision. Um sometimes when um when sides come in with this with this sort of very fixed, limited mindset, they're almost asking for trouble. But again, what I think really impressed me was the fact that they they stuck at it. They clearly believed in the in the the sort of the defensive setup and the game plan, and they didn't give give in to the um to sort of uh individual whim or or flair at any point. They knew what they were doing and um and they were completely united in in that. And um, so you could certainly say that as regards the the different teams um in the group so far, the Ghana have sort of managed the games, certainly the two games so far to the best of their ability, because uh four points from two for for them is is a big success.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And um what's also interesting uh in regards to the plan and the and the dynamic of the match is that as soon as England um I'm not sure if it's England uh which which managed to loosen um the the Ghanaian positioning a little bit, or if it was actually Ghana trying to, okay, maybe we can play a little bit more loose and try to get something out of there. Um and they tried it for maybe two minutes, and um, you could immediately see why uh why the game plan worked so well um in the first half. Um because uh yeah immediately uh England found more more room, more spots um where where they could potentially bypass the uh Ghanani fans. So yeah, um and on the other hand, uh of course you had an English team which was just uh um they were not willing to take any risk. Um, I mean in that ironically, both teams were uh were equal, that both were not willing to take risks here. Um and uh seen uh Ghana trying to make any advances, they played much more risky passes, um, which of course then accelerates the potential advance if it's successful. And on the contrary, you had England, um, yeah, what what Declan said, it's basically from one side to the other, to the other, to the other. Um, and always basically um the the the the safest um pathways were chosen and not the ones which perpetually could give them um could give them an edge uh for a couple of seconds or uh yeah with which they could um kind of uh surprise the uh the Ghana team. Um yeah, a stunning performance, I must say, uh from Ghana. And Ghana is known to be such a team. Uh, I just want to say as a as a German, um, it's actually good news for England because uh in Germans' cases, if you play a draw in the second game of a World Cup, you're guaranteed statistically, 100% guaranteed to win it. Um the same thing, exactly the same thing, happened to Germany in 2014. Um, but they actually uh four goals were scored, um, two on both sides, and it was a very, very, very hard game. Uh, Ghana is just a very, very feisty side, not known to win games, but just a side which is not fun to play against. And we we got um uh yeah um another piece of evidence uh today.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

I definitely appreciate your um weird uh crystal ball uh German-related statistics that you keep um you keep coming out with. Um listen, well, I think one of the things that's um because Declan was really disappointed, right? So, and to some extent you could look at it and you could you could say, well, England also have four from two. They're unbeaten, they're going into the last match against a weak weaker side in the group, and um, so that they're still in a strong position. So why is there such disappointment? And I think um it's because what we saw today plays into a kind of a historical criticism of English sides, in which um they lack um when when when they're sort of set up with this with this uh hypothetically lesser but organized opponent, they sort of lack um a spark, ingenuity, they demonstrate almost sort of limited ideas on how to break a side down, and it sort of plays into this notion that England are kind of historically have been um a workmanlike side that uh with with effort um and steel, but that actually they don't have the creative flair of a lot of um Latin and um uh and European sides, and that is the a kind of a dagger at the heart of English football, or certainly for English fans, um, when they're reminded that, yeah, they may be good, but they're never going to be they're never going to be listed in amongst the sort of the creative geniuses of of world football. And I think that reminder is why uh one of the reasons why Deccan sounded so disappointed.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Yeah, I mean, and I I completely uh I completely understand that. Um but on the other hand, it's it's really remarkable if you uh if you look at the stats. Um I think Ghana is by now the team with the least possession in a match with only 20% throughout the whole game. Um and uh England with close to 80, therefore, of course. Um yeah, just amazing how how safe they played. And and I'm really not sure if uh if it would be France, for example, which uh would have played against this Ghanaian today, um, if they would actually have managed to overcome the defense. Because it was just they yeah, they were not giving any open space to to exploit, and you really could see that, and of course, you could see the frustration um as well. And I mean the the English uh the English team is uh is a phenomenal one, and against Croatia, um, of course, different uh playstyle, they showed that they can be that they have this creative side in them, and um I think fatalism is probably um the the right word here. It's uh probably more like an angst to to fall back into that, um which uh yeah, which basically uh yeah strangled any any any English chances for a uh for a title um in over the last decades.

SPEAKER_03 16:46

Yeah, well good.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Um and and then again I think that uh that that uh Declan raised a very important point uh um that the the that England were actually very lucky today because that m would have been a penalty in my opinion, with the with a different uh first official or a different VAR. Um very, very clear in my opinion. Um so yeah, I I wouldn't see it uh that black and white. And sometimes um many teams which have uh which went on to go uh and win the World Cup actually had one very difficult game, sometimes a loss, sometimes a draw, and I wouldn't overstate um that uh this this this result and lastly a Harry Kane uh today we know he is actually human because he even he can miss such a big chance, basically almost a an open, free goal goalkeeper lying on the ground, and he just uh stands four four meters in front of it, maybe five, and just puts it over the um over the bar. And uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

Yeah, I mean I'd I'd I agree that I don't think we should overdo criticism of of England, but I think tempering our expectations of what we think this England team is capable of. I mean, again, it's not just today. We go back to the Croatia match, they did have a purple patch for 20 minutes at the beginning of the second half, but outside of that, it was kind of a really open uh game, uh played in part by sort of set up in in part by a by limited aging Croatian um side. So uh I don't feel that say you know, having watched your Argentinas and your Francis and your Norways at this tournament, um those teams seem to be multifaceted, again, highly organized and motivated uh uh sides that uh that really uh feel as though they know what they're about and they know what their roles are. Whereas I think with England's two performances to date, yes, they have had some really strong periods, but it doesn't feel again if we if we you know this thing that we talk about all the time about footballing identity. Um I really couldn't really uh tell you what England or how England would would were trying to play across both those those matches. I mean, one of the points which Dekla made today, I think, as well, which was um highly relevant, is England are playing with two wingers, basically. Um they're playing with Anthony Gordon on the left and uh Noni Madweke on the on the right. Madweka definitely gives more width and he sort of hangs out on on the wing and he has a good positional sense, but he doesn't necessarily have the dribbling skills to sort of take players on. Gordon is much more of a direct attacker, but but um on current form, um, I'm not entirely sure that Barcelona are enjoying what they're seeing as regards his his capabilities, and he's certainly not um he's kind of a fairly predictable winger, uh, at certainly it seems at the moment, and doesn't he's not somebody that would would be would threaten defenses uh on a on a regular basis. And generally, when you have this low block, one of the things that gives you an opportunity to to break down the low block is is wingers staying out wide, taking on a defender or two in limited space and then getting crosses in. England really didn't manage to um to do that. And and it didn't feel to me either that even if you uh contemplate and take into account the fact that you've got these two wingers, right? That um that's clearly part of the game plan. It must be, otherwise, why are they why are they there? That it England weren't really playing to sort of uh move them into space and open up space for them again with this sort of backwards and forwards, left and right thing. Um the point of it, if it's gonna work, is to stretch a defence, to move a defence one way and then move them another way and generate space that way. But if you do that, do that as slowly as England were doing, and with two limited wingers in the shape of Gordon and Madouca, then you're basically going to get nowhere. You're sort of you're you're static, and then you can't do anything through the middle because it's a completely limited space by this really tight uh framework set up by by Ghana. So I'm I'm not really sure how it is that England was set up to play today.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Yeah, that that's uh that's actually a very good, very good point. Um I I I I think you really must credit in this case the um the whole team of Ghana, which stood very, very um very deep into their own half uh throughout the game. And uh no matter when Gordon or uh Madweke got the ball, uh almost immediately they had two defenders on them. Um and because nobody was uh basically looking for a counter-attack in the Ghanaian team, then you even had um had sometimes the attackers being um yeah at the um um at the at the cr at the borders of the of the penalty box. And um so it was just very, very diff uh different uh difficult to uh to get there. Then of course, um today England was the head uh like headers were not England's strength either. Um And uh yeah, if if you looked at Madweke or Gordon, they they couldn't get crosses into the uh in front of the goal, basically. And if they could land some, then they were shot in such a hurry and with uh with missing precision um that they didn't land anywhere where where they could uh could be used by um by a Harry Kane, um for example. And uh I think that that was the um that was a problem. And again, no um you can also always always try to go through the middle, but then you have to play risky passes, right? Yeah, and if you end up with a with a go with a with a possession of 80% that shows that you just you did not take the chance. And then then give give away 20%, um, especially if you notice that the team you play against is is actually not keen on attacking you um in any way, shape, or form. And and I think they they England in this case just fell into the trap um of Ghana. So I think that um today was uh probably uh not a good game to to judge any any individual uh qualities because if that team does not perform um in in in in this situation, then also nobody individually can perform because nobody uh is is like uh basically alone uh as like as a lone wolf overcoming that defense. It's only um possible as a as a concerted effort. And um and lastly, I must say bad coaching today, because everybody could see what the biggest um let's say problem was England has, and that was this very risk-averse play style. And uh Thomas Tuchel, um, of course, known to have uh have a certain temper, or can have a certain temper at times and let that out, um, I think did not a good job today, and um yeah, was not was not a good uh a good help for uh for his boys. Um let's see what what happens um in the last game, of course. Um but yeah, that's that's my my overall take.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

Yeah, it's one of the funny things I think about Thomas Tuchel is that there are times when he does something when he's kind of highly interventionist and times when he's not. So it's sort of there's a on the from seen from the exterior, there's there's um there's an inconsistency there. Um, but the what we sort of saw in the first game against Croatia with a sort of an attacking interventionist um policy and argument and theory was one particular thing. And then we do we just didn't see that today. I mean, again, Declan mentioned the last sort of lack of substitutions either at halftime or or early in the in the second half, and it was where it was clear that what was going on just wasn't wasn't working. And um, and yeah, I think you're right to say that he didn't help his side today. Again, we've that simple definition of does a coach make you better or worse. Um I don't think he offered any real solutions to um to sort of England going forward beyond just more of the same. And um, and in those kind of in those that battle for space in close quarters when you've got such a tight sort of centre of the of the pitch, which is so populated by by the Ghanaian defense. I mean, England just don't have the skill. I mean, who does, right? Over kind of a Messi or others, um, or an Mbappe. But they they just don't have the individual um pedigree to be able to operate at such close quarters as as other sides um as other sides do. Uh just very quickly, Paul, Croatia beats Panama 1-0. So they now have a win on the board. So that means that um uh England and Ghana are on four points, um uh and then Croatia three, and then Panama nil. And there is the possibility of if if results fall a particular kind of way. I mean, I'm not saying it's likely, right? But if in the last match Croatia beat Ghana by a limited number of goals, and Panama beat England by a slightly more um elevated number of goals, England could actually be in third place in the group, and um and that puts England in a position going into the last fixture in this group, which they they definitely wouldn't have wanted to be in.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

No, definitely not, but I think um let's not uh how to say it in English. Paint the devil on the wall, that's what we say in Germany at least. Um so I think that uh of course um a very unlikely scenario, I would say. Um and uh but of course it's it's always worth to to consider every possibility which could happen going forward to um ultimately prepare for that. Um but I think um if Croatia wins uh 1-0 against Panama, uh definitely not among their best performances today. Um Panama also steadfast, uh of course, but nothing nothing there really um in that game for anybody, especially not uh spectators, contrary to the England Ghana game, I would say, because that was it was quite fascinating to see.

SPEAKER_03 27:15

Um I wouldn't say the England Ghana game was enjoyable to watch, but it was there was um there was something in it for the few for the sort of foot for the football uh purist and the sort of the the football student.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um lastly, of course, I uh would say um there was another record broken today. It was not an international one, um, but a record held by a previous um or I mean still probably immortal international legend, um the Portuguese uh Eusebio. He held the the record uh number of goals scored for the Portuguese national team, and uh yeah was uh surpassed by Cristiano Ronaldo today. But let's talk about that game specifically, maybe um tomorrow with Declan. I just wanted to mention that that uh that uh probably he got a piece of what he wanted um in in regards to uh to Ronaldo uh today.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

Yeah, Ronaldo came back with with two goals today, and he's now uh the perception was that Ronaldo would would continue to sort of play quietly. Of course, it was against Uzbekistan, that Kane would hopefully fire in another couple to continue his pursuit of your Messi's and your Haalands and your Mbappes, but uh that that didn't happen. But yeah, we will do a full roundup with with Declan when he when he returns um tomorrow uh tomorrow evening. But uh for the moment, Paul, uh thanks so much for your uh for your time and look forward to talking again in the next 24 hours.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

Absolutely. Have a good evening, John. Bye-bye.