DISCUSSION: Canada vs. Morocco; France vs. Paraguay

Paul Schmidt-Troschke & Jon Bonfiglio look at the latest matches from the World Cup. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Hello and welcome to World Cup Football etc. with me, Paul Metroschka. And today, unfortunately, without Declan, because Declan is already sleeping in his hotel. I thought he died.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

It was a sad moment and we all wept.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Yeah, very, very much so. Um, but I would I would argue not not out of not out of sadness.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

No, but he's fine, he's fine.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Yeah, he's fine, of course. Um, yeah, and he is a waiting right now. Um maybe he can't even sleep at all um the game tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Because of how much fun he had, because of course we've been heavily trained the fact that this is the first time the three of us have ever met in a live room, and it wasn't just the three of us, we also met the the Link boys as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Exactly. Two of the three Link boys, the two uh the two youngest of them, and it was an absolute, absolute ple uh absolute pleasure. And um yeah, but of course we still have and want to talk about the two games which happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Yes, we do we do want to talk about the two games. Um, but just to clarify why this podcast is going up late in terms of the review of the games as well, is because tonight, obviously, we've been recording live in Mexico City, and um so those are coming up as from tomorrow morning, staggered over the period of the next few days. And this is uh Paul and me, the last remaining survivors of the evening, talking about the the games that have taken place today. I think that's fair to say. Are we still surviving?

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Um, yeah, absolutely. We are still surviving at this um quite late, I would say. Um it was uh it was an absolutely amazing event. Um lots of very, very interesting and unique um recordings we did for again. Um so you can uh look forward to that. And uh the first recording will be up um after this one, and is um of course concerning the England-Mexico, quite historic of a match, I would say, um, tomorrow, uh, with lots of different voices um giving their opinions and um and estimations of what is about to go down tomorrow here in in Mexico City. But for now, we have um two games which happened today. First, we're gonna start with Canada Morocco. It the result was 0-3 in favor of Morocco. John, did you expect anything else?

SPEAKER_02 2:48

I mean, not really, to be fair. Canada, of course, uh co-host nation, but also playing outside of Canada. Um, and you know, they've they've done well, but they were never really gonna go that deep into the tournament, and Morocco were just a thoroughly professional side, which we said many times before. But Morocco did struggle to break them down a little bit, but then once um this the second goal went in in particular. It was interesting to see um to hear Jesse Marsh, Canadian managers coaches, almost kind of criticisms of Morocco, saying that he would rather be um the the Canadian side and the way that Canada played and so on, by default, sort of almost saying that Morocco had played an anti-football, I think. But the fact is Morocco just play how Morocco play. Morocco have uh have evolved themselves into uh being a side that um that know that have uh evolved to learn how they beat the big sides and they just don't deviate from that. And so um they just have a very particular structure and they uh they hold true to that belief and that identity and for for for a long time now, Paul. We've spoken about footboarding identity. Morocco just have that. If you don't like it, you don't like it, but they have that, they know who it is that they are, they know how it is they play, and they just did the job today, I think. And that they are going to be a tough side for France to beat, especially given that, and I know this is the second game that we're gonna be talking about in a minute, given how France struggled to break Paraguay down. I think um, you know, if the longer that the longer that Morocco take the team to France in the next round, the harder it is gonna be for France to break them down, notwithstanding, not without even discussing the historical um dislike and discord that there is between France and Morocco, of course, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Yeah. Um I think that the the central point um uh in in this match, or I mean uh concerning Morocco in general, is this kind of footballing identity. And uh what you um said to me a couple of times already when we spoke about Morocco matches was that Morocco just knows how to win, and they know that the only thing they want is to win. And so they don't care at all about making the game beautiful or um attractive to any any specific um part of of the fans, and uh that is just brutally effective. And um I mean it's it's not two levels, of course, um of uh of the hand of God, quite quite the opposite. I would say that Morocco is is not playing unfairly um in any way, really. They just really try everything on the pitch to win the game in a fair manner, and and they don't care about at all if it's if it's annoying any uh any, I don't know, coaches in this case.

SPEAKER_02 5:35

Yeah, or but even um the almost we're presenting it as though they're playing an anti-football, but I don't think they are. They're not they're not playing a Paraguay, then they're not performing to shut entirely to shut down an opposition side, they're just hyper-efficient in control of space and in their roles, and they know that when they have an opportunity, then they switch on, and they've got incredibly talented players in order to be able to achieve that. So it's not that their um again, their identity, their raise on detra, is not about just negating another side, it's about waiting until the moment and then and then employing that moment, using that moment to to best effect. And and so uh ordinarily I would be um I don't know, quite critical of sides that just play uh death football. Uh we've spoken a bit about Carlos Kiros, of course, with Ghana in this particular thing, uh, in this particular tournament. I I don't mind too much the low block when when the only way you know how to win in terms of a disparity between teams is to sell up in a particular way. I don't think Morocco do that. I think Morocco just again, it's not that they change their their footballing policy against different sides, is it's just that they are who they are.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Oh, yeah, not at all. I think they they play in the same style every match, and um their track record showed them that this is the way to to go forward and to win games, and um yeah, to to have the best hopes um to to win the trophy in the end. And I think that you can you could really make the argument that they are actually uh one of the purest football sides because they only care about the game and they only care about what's most important in the game, and that's winning, and not in an ugly sense of um we just play um in around our the corner flags in the last 10 minutes or anything like that. But um what you said is that um Ghana, for example, they they really just had a low block and did not try to um yeah, it seemed to me that they they did not really um I don't know, bet on counter-attacks, it was more like just try to defend, just try to survive.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

The Ghanaian identity was based on the identity of the opposition side, whereas the Moroccan identity is just the Moroccan identity.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Exactly, and it's it's being the opposition side when it's when it's advantageous to you, but then um to to realize exactly where the moments are where you can exploit the the opponent's team. And what I or on what statement I would definitely agree is that Morocco is probably the most annoying and frustrating side to play against um because they exploit you in every possible way or in every opportunity you give them. And that's I think the point that um you allow Morocco to exploit your own style of play.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Um so uh you can't really uh really complain about in the end, and sportsmen like I don't think there's any side that really knows how to play against Morocco because they are they play in a particular way based not on an absence of skill, but based on a full understanding of their skill component. Um and they're just yeah, they're just hugely organized. And it's it's not something we associate generally with. I think what the African sides of this tournament have been real standout, and they may not have gone as far as uh uh Afcon would have hoped, but but actually I just think that the the how they have organized themselves and how they have pushed back is has has been something of a groundbreaker. Of course, Morocco we saw that happen last time. And in a way, Morocco's uh sort of set the the a high watermark with the last World Cup getting to to the semi-finals, but um whether they win against France or lose against France, Morocco are aside which now have uh pedigree and they're here to stay.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Absolutely. And um just to conclude everything, when I when I saw the um the Cabo Verdian performance against Argentina, um I just thought that um Morocco is still maybe a little bit more passive at times, but it Morocco is basically Cabo Verde on steroids, um with with a much more still a much more efficient, um effective defensive block and even more dangerous on on the offense. Um and everybody uh ever every team, every coach um is is going to be frustrated playing against Morocco.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

But now um just just before you just because I thought I know what you mean, but uh the way that Gabo Verde K. Bird played is almost takes us more back to the days of Latin American football utopia than an African side. Um it the because African sides play in a particular way and they have incredible players, and um but but generally we we don't associate this sort of this just go at it, go at it, go at it in the way the K Vogue did against Argentina, and and of course Latin American sides have also evolved hugely, but but if you think back to sort of almost Brazilian sides of the 70s and the 80s and Argentine sides of the particular period of time as well, it was and I know we've been critical of the kind of Thomas Tuchel, you don't play the actual game context, you just play repeatedly the same way. But those Latin American sides of that period, at their best, they just kept repeating and just throwing everything at the opponent. At their worst, they were also defensively very vulnerable because they could they kept doing the same thing as well. And that's what reminded what Cape Verde reminded me of. And it was the joy that I felt watching them was actually didn't matter whether they were 2-0 down or 1-0 down, or it was nil-nil, they were just gonna play the same way. Yeah, whatever happened.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Absolutely. It was one of the most incredible um performances um on the on a psychological level, which then translated into the actual real um situation on on the field, uh on the pitch. And yeah, speaking about frustration, I think that's the best way to describe the French Paraguay match. And I'm actually a little bit um, I don't know, not happy or something, but um uh if you look at the statistics of the game, they're actually worse than against Germany. Um, when Paraguay played against Germany. Um so I'm I'm a little bit um relieved that um yeah, it was not a German specific um weakness against Paraguay, but that Paraguay is just an incredible team um in defending against the not in the case of Germany, but in the case of France now uh the best teams in the world, um Paraguay had a possession of 22%. Um and yeah, so basically the rest went to France, and they still managed only to score one goal in the 17th minute, and then it was um yeah, who else than Kilian um Mbappé? And um when you look at the um chances created, you had 15 shots in total, five on goal by France, and uh on the other side, on the Paraguayan side, you had five shots in total, none of them, uh none of them were actually going on the target. So I think that um we have a special series on um on egalitarianism in in football, and uh it is it is very interesting to see that in this world cup teams seem to find ways in which to make um yeah the the plays uh or the the games um against very good teams, um the best in the world, extremely difficult for them. Um and that is definitely a a novum in in this World Cup, which we haven't seen in the in the 2022 or any World Cup before um in that way across the board. And that's the point, right? You have a Paraguay, you have a uh Cabo Verde, um you have an Ecuador um and and many more teams. I mean, uh just uh just incredible and um yeah, very frustrating uh for France. Um what what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Yeah, I wonder whether because in previous World Cups, well, we've seen really boring draws and we've seen a mismatch, often it's been really dispiriting, but it's actually been very few. This is one of the few really dispiriting matches that that there's been. I thought the South Korea-Mexico was also a um uh a game to sort of almost uh want to end your life by. Um but uh but this one was was definitely that. And and and I I wonder whether it's to some extent that's also because that the tournament's opened up, so we don't mind the the the the boring or the hypothetically the boring mismatches in the same way as we used to before because there's a much more of a sense of minnows in this uh uh in particular sides we'd never seen before coming so to the World Cup. So when they achieve parity, when they achieve a draw, there's a sort of sense of them actually just really punching above their their weight. That wasn't the case with Paraguay, Paraguay are clearly an okay side. Um, and they they know that in order to try and maximize their chances of getting through to the next round, they have to play a particular way, and it's ugly, and it's ugly in terms of fouls, and it's ugly in terms of closing down space, and it's ugly in terms of not pushing people forward. So, you know, it is it is all of those things. Um, it was notable that France were really visibly frustrated by that and the lack of um ability to open up Paraguay and to um generate chances. I mean, there were very few, I think in the first half there were almost no chances at all and on on goal. So I am I am I sorry to see Paraguay leave the World Cup tournament? No, and and in particular the because France have obviously been one of the sides of the tournament, but this has been this was France's weakest game. France definitely struggled to know how to get through this particular um formation, which just didn't offer didn't offer anything. Um and uh yeah, so we see France against Morocco next, and that's obviously gonna be a hell of a match. Will we remember Paraguay at this World Cup? Probably not.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

I mean, if if you are non-German, you not will not probably remember Paraguay. If you're French, uh if you're French, you probably remember it a little bit, and if you're German, of course, um you remember it for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

Well, you're gonna remember the Ecuadorians, you're gonna remember the Paraguayans, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 15:57

You're gonna remember many teams. Yeah, yeah, all of them basically. Um from the first to the to the last games, which were not few, uh which were not a lot in in total in the end. And lastly, uh interestingly, um Paraguay did not receive any yellow cards. On the other hand, France uh got three yellow cards. And I mean, this just speaks um for the frustration all the French players um have experienced visibly um on the pitch today. Um, and I think that is definitely a kind of a of a by now common roadmap on how to uh I mean as a paragraph, you really don't have any any realistic chances to score against France. Um, but that still um yeah shouldn't uh shouldn't leak you to just give up and just make it as difficult as you can and just uh make a name for yourself. And they definitely did this today.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

Sometimes there's matches, teams go through hardship. So, for example, Argentina against Cape Verde. I think that's probably quite good for Argentina because Argentina definitely didn't go into it with um with the verb and the professionalism they should have done. Again, not to take any away from Cape Verde, who were absolutely amazing. But um this match between France and Paraguay, they got through a sticky obstacle. And then the question is, does this does this help them against Morocco or not? And I'm not sure it does, because Morocco is going to be a stiffer test of and a slight variant of a stiffer test to what Paraguay offers. So if I was in the French camp tonight, I would say some I would be thinking something along the lines of without necessarily communicating it, we struggled to break down Paraguay. Morocco are a whole different level of test that don't necessarily operate um in the same way, but they operate in a sort of parallel structure, and we're gonna have some real difficulties against them. The the best thing that France can can hope for is an early goal against Morocco because if they don't score, if they don't have that, then Morocco is gonna grow and grow in confidence. And Morocco also already know that they can be the best European side.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yeah, absolutely. I think that um Morocco knows they can beat France, and um I think that Morocco is um the more resilient side uh in comparison to France, um, because they they faced um not a lot, but uh still more matches um where they had more difficulties. Um so I think that psychologically Morocco is on the up there, and um yeah, it's gonna be an amazing match on the 9th of July, um, a couple of days out. And uh but for now let's uh watch the two games tomorrow, which both are extremely interesting, and I think that both matches can go both ways. Um, first match is of course Brazil against Norway, and uh this time, hopefully, I think so, with Haaland on the pitch, and then in the evening, the legendary historical Mexico-England match in the Azteca.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Can I just ask you a question, Paul? So uh with Norway against Brazil, we know which Norway side is gonna turn up. Norway being very consistent in being Norway. I think a big question there is which Brazil side is gonna turn up.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Yes, uh and uh that Norway will concede gold, it's to me it's it's not a question at all. They will concede gold. Um but I think the the only questi I mean the the central question is and uh yeah a lot of Brazil's performance has hinged on exactly that is the performance of Vinny Jr. and on the other side the performance of Allen Haaland. And um I think that the um yeah the the state in which both players will be, both physically and mentally, will uh uh probably will be the the biggest determinators or predictors of how the match will eventually resolve.

SPEAKER_02 19:47

I can hear some Mexican fans chanting outside our window pool. Are they deliberately trying to keep us up tonight? I can hear horns, I can hear stereos, I can hear chanting and singing. I don't think they're mistake they've mistaken us for the England Team Hotel.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

I I I hope not. Um I I actually um the bar we have been to um a couple of hours ago, I have told them that most of the people in the bar are British, so they might have followed us to our apartment and and set up a camp in front. But um no, I think that um Mexico is just uh I think as self-confident, at least, at least on the fan side, um, as in decades as ever, maybe, um, against England tomorrow. So they uh yeah, they might just uh I don't know, be partying that they're actually gonna play against England and not against uh trying to take us out. Hopefully not. All right. Thank you so much, John, and um yeah, speak to you and hopefully Declan tomorrow after the after the England Mexico game, and um have a good night. Good night.