LIVE IN MEXICO CITY: England vs. Mexico - Audience Preview

The team are live in Mexico City, at the Lamb Restaurant, in association with the British Embassy in Mexico, celebrating the England vs. Mexico match in a multi-episode recording. In this first episode, the gathered audience preview their thoughts on the match. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Hello everyone and welcome to World Cup Football etc. where tonight we are live in Mexico City at the Lamb Restaurant in association with the British Embassy in Mexico City in a multi-part episode podcast series that we are recording, focusing on the event, of course, a huge event, huge sporting and cultural social event, even that is taking place at the Azteca Stadium between England and Mexico. But before we get into all of the different things we're going to be talking about, which are related to how Mexico is responding to the kind of uh the political challenges or the political opportunities related to uh to the match and also the history of uh of football in Mexico, which of course relates to to Britain as well, and a lot of the social programs which which the uh the British Embassy in Mexico City is engaged in, has been engaged in for a long period of time. It would be remiss of us not to focus on the match itself. So, what we're gonna be doing now is in front of the uh ahead of the all the different gathered uh individuals that we have here, which are both England fans uh and uh some longer in the tooth than others, and also local uh Mexican supporters as well. We're basically going to be straw polling uh people's perspectives on the on the upcoming game. Not so much uh what they think is gonna happen, but also I guess the sense in which they they perceive this to be an important event for for themselves. And of course, I think we have to begin with the future ambassador of El Salvador, Gordonio. Okay, Gordon, what are your thoughts on this momentous event?

SPEAKER_03 2:03

Well, for me personally, it's gonna tick off a bucket list uh going to Azteca to see again. The event itself, I'm not sure about Mexico versus England. It's gonna be a big game. Uh I personally believe, uh, antithocally to what everybody's wor talked about here that Mexico are gonna come out and try and dominate in the first 20 minutes, and then if England survives that, they might do it. I think England should come out and attack from the start. And if England attack from the start, the game's over. In my opinion, they'll win 3 or 4-0 if they do that. But whether Tuchel can do that or not is another matter. Um and if Tuchel can't do it and is sacked, then I know that our next manager will be Julian Nagelsmann. So we're okay from that point of view. But I mean, yeah, I know you you want me to be a bit more serious about this.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Well, just to contextualize, regular listeners to the podcast will know that there's been an ongoing joke about where Julian Nagelsman goes next. And the great beer is that he becomes the England manager.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

No, it's not a great fear. It's not a great fear. I I I mean, I I think, if I'm really honest, it's much more important uh in Mexico than it is in England from a social and cultural point of view. If if you go and poll any English fans in England and say how important is this socially and culturally, they'll say, Well, what are you talking about? It's just a game against Mexico.

SPEAKER_02 3:43

So I'm gonna I'm gonna disagree with you because uh you know, for the last six months I've had regular sort of little correcting emails from from you. Yeah. And this is my little my gentle pushback on this. I I don't agree with you on this in the sense that I think the media obsession in the UK in the last 72 hours with altitude and with thunderstorms in Mexico says that England fans are just kind of okay with this. I think it's pretty clear that this is a momentous event in an English football cycle.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

I think you're you're conflating media with England fans, and they're completely different. Media is one thing, they'll they'll do anything to sell column inches or whatever they do sell, and they're gonna talk about altitude. England fans, I think the genuine English fans don't care about all that. Um they they they're coming, they think we've got a good chance, they know Mexico's gonna be tough. Altitude is in my mind not an excuse. Definitely not an excuse. So let's have at it.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Well, and also from an altitude perspective, it's it's clear that it's not as though this is a surprise. This match against Mexico at the Azteca Stadium is not something which is being brought out of left field. It's been pretty clear from the start. And also, if you choose a um a sea level training base, you're always going to struggle when you go up at altitude. Whereas if you train at altitude and you play at sea level wherever you play at, that's it seems to me that it's it's been something of a planning oversight, uh, Gordon, as regards the England FX.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

I I I completely disagree. Because I completely disagree. It really didn't harm Brazil in 1970, didn't harm Argentina in 1986. What are England gonna do? Train up, train here and fly to all the sea level places?

SPEAKER_02 5:43

No, but they can train in Colorado, they can train in Utah, they can train in that reserve, there's plenty places in the US they can train.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

They could have done, but that the the other scientific evidence shows you that training at altitude and then coming down to sea level, which they would have had to do for all the other games, is absolutely non-beneficial.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

Is that why cyclists do it? Is that why marathon runners do it? Is that why boxers do it in Mexico City?

SPEAKER_03 6:07

I've no idea. But but tell me who who trains here as footballers.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Um Eddie Hearn, as a boxing promoter, will say he does not engage with boxers that train in Mexico City because then he knows that they fight harder and longer than boxers that train anywhere else, and it's an altitude question.

SPEAKER_03 6:27

Yeah, but the but boxing's completely different sport from football. So, you know, boxers I imagine. Um you tell me which football teams train altitude. Why don't why don't all the England Premier League teams come in and train altitude? It's such a great advantage.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Well, because Switzerland is not that, you know, they don't go to Switzerland.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

They don't go to Switzerland either. They go and train in Portugal, they go and train in Spain, they don't train Premier League venues and not uh uh altitude. But let's move on to the city. But nor are other nor are other venues in this World Cup. There's just one that England are playing. But what do you want to do? Train for that and ignore all the sea level venues?

SPEAKER_02 7:12

You're not training at altitude, not ignoring the sea level venues.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Training at altitude is being shown as being not too beneficial when you play at sea level. So I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

This is gonna be a a specific podcast which is for paid-only subscribers. Fine. They want to want to source a private discussion between between uh Pete Gordon and and myself. But let's let's move on to other perspectives. Uh uh Declan, your your can contextualize your sense of this upcoming match between Mexico and uh and England.

SPEAKER_08 7:45

Well, first and foremost, what I want to do personally, uh obviously I'm very happy to be here in Mexico City. It's been a um, you know, my my day and a half with the boys so far has been fantastic. But I actually want to uh tomorrow go to the Azteca, get a massive Mexican sombrero hat on, and recreate a picture that was taken 40 years ago when I walked up to the Azteca in uh May the 31st, 1986, uh, as a 22-year-old watching Italy play Bulgaria in the opening game of that 1986 World Cup. That's a that's a purely personal slash selfish goal tomorrow. I want the game to go off um well. I want the best team to win, obviously England. Uh I do think that uh you know the the weather today, we had horrendous thunderstorms earlier on, but the rest of the evening has been absolutely gorgeous, really showcasing Mexico City as well as it could be. Let's hope, knock on wood, cross fingers, etc. etc., that tomorrow evening's weather follows the same pattern as tonight's weather, because I think it's gonna be a fantastic contest. I sort of agree with what Gordon's saying. I do think on paper, although John corrects me every time I say that, the game's not written or played on paper, but England will win. Uh, but I do feel that it's gonna be a fantastic uh contest in an iconic stadium.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Jacqueline, just before you you you move on, and we we just we we move on to somebody else, just in the context of um England matches that you've uh uh engaged in being to, uh Mexico City has its own. I mean it's Mexico City, it's also the Aztec, it's a hugely sort of cultural point of difference. And I think, in particular with this sort of World Cup cycle, you've been to a lot of games in the USA, so this must feel different for you.

SPEAKER_08 9:43

Yes, I've been very fortunate, but you I I feel that you make your own luck in life and you make your own fortune. I've been to the uh the four games that England have played in the World Cup so far, and the two pre-World Cup games in Tampa and Orlando, and the Orlando game in particular was Pinch Yourself. It was at the Orlando City Stadium, two miles from my house, and England are playing. Um, this is gonna be a different experience. You just have to come to Mexico City to realise what a fabulous city it is, um, how how how football is in great in the culture here, and the experience, the stadium experience tomorrow, I feel is gonna be something akin to being in Europe, being in a fabled stadium and a fabled country where nothing else matters but the football. And at the moment, sadly, in the United States, everything else seems to matter NFL, NBA, hockey, baseball, you name it, that all sort of everyone's an expert whilst that's the flavour of the month. Whereas in countries like Mexico and England, football is the only thing that matters.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Yeah, and that's sort of that unifying feature. Um that unifying feature of uh of course of football, the fact that it's lived by everybody, is a central part of this uh of this world, you know, we hope of this World Cup cycle.

SPEAKER_10 11:06

I was just saying well, I'm a dual national, and after 24 years of being a mixture from the UK, um I have to say I really I really feel this is a a win-win game for me. I I people are as soon as the England game was uh was settled, I had knocks on my door, all the people coming in, who are you gonna sport? Who are you gonna sport? Who are you gonna sport? And I genuinely feel I I I've been very pleased with the progress of of the England teams, but I've been immensely proud of the progress of the Mexican team. They gave there was very little expectation of expert before the the World Cup started. I think uh a lot of the squad were unfamiliar. Um they've been hidden away, they they did have the advantage of having nearly a two-month training camp, so they've been hidden away. There was a lot of um nobody had really seen what the Mexico team could produce. The way they've been they've been playing, they really are the classic example of the team that's more than the sum of his parts. At the same time, I believe England have those extra special players, world-class players that can make difference in. There's been a number of World Cups that have shown that one or two players that can really tip the balance in your favour over the course of the who really are in form during the tournament, can take you a very, very long way normal. So it's gonna be an interesting balance, I I believe. I I think that tearing around with with high presses and yeah, fast presses, I do think Inestec was probably won't be the best tactic up. I think Mexico will be looking to counter-attack as well. I think I think Eva's best tactic will be to try and take the steam out of the Mexican team's uh speed and velocity and counter-attacking style, possibly open up the open up the pitch, yeah, the old cliches there, the ball doesn't work, um, control pace and um really really make make your opportunities count. And that's something that I believe with the class of cane and village of and and some of the really really speedy wins that happen. I think I think they'll they could um I think it's a great level. I think it's a great level. I really I really can't call the game. I do I think there'll be goals, I really do. I think there will be goals during the game, it won't be uh a new nil or a very very stoltic game. Um and let's just hope it's decided by football and not a controversial bar decision or anything like that. You know, it's again a cliche in that. But but really football does to have been again the SCD and through that's that's that's way.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Now he is softly spoken, but that is uh Dr. Chris Wood, who we've heard from in the past, who's uh head of the National Microscopy Center uh here in uh here in in Mexico, and uh uh we have somebody else across the other side of the of the table who is also surnamed Wood, and they might be related.

SPEAKER_05 14:14

So uh my name is X Wood. I was born in Mexico, I lived uh 16 years in Mexico. I've recently moved to the UK and I've been studying in the UK for the past four years. Um I do want to touch on the subject of altitude training. So I've always been a sports person and recently over the past 15, well I'd say about 12 years of my life, I've been training TES. And uh over the last seven years I've been training quite intensely, and uh and recently over the past four years I've moved to the UK and I do want to talk about the subject of um altitude training. So um when I I used to train in Mexico and I really I never really noticed a difference until I moved to the UK, I felt like I was pretty much invincible run for hours and I I really felt I mean I felt great and then eventually I saw as I got used to the UK um sea level um training, uh as soon as I came back to Mexico after one year, it was um it was horrible. I couldn't even move, I couldn't last 20 minutes in a training session where I used to last uh two and a half hour two and a half hours with with no breaks or anything. So um when when it when this comment came out about altitude being a negative, training in high altitude as a negative for English teams, uh personally I I disagree since um I've trained in uh for multiple years over in low altitude and high altitude, and I've clearly felt a difference training in high altitude, benefiting myself, um being able to be more uh resilient.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Just to come back to Mario Paul in a minute, but um just on this perspective on the other side of the coin, but but also just um it's not really a discussion here. There has been in Latin America a thing about um high altitude uh sports, but it was in 2007-2008 when there was a a team from Flamengo that played in the Coba Libertadores that went to Potosi in Bolivia, and that was about nearly 4,000 metres, uh, and they had to take uh artificial oxygen in order to be able to play. And that became a big thing at the time, and then for about a year there was a ban on high-altitude venues that was eventually rescinded because it's it was the the perspective the perspective was that it was a prejudice on high-altitude nations, but it's worth saying in the context of Mexico City that that was a 2,500 meters and up ban. Mexico City does not come in under that. Mexico City is 2,250 metres at altitude, the Azteca specifically, so it doesn't even come in into that band specific area. Mario Paul, um, you know, from your perspective in terms of, of course, the the sociological aspect, uh what's the discussion here? Is it a discussion, is it a local discussion, or is it something which has sort of come out of nowhere?

SPEAKER_01 17:08

I mean, it should be because the doctors say so, right? Scientists say so. Doctors or Dr. Seuss? No, Doctor Doctors. Doctor Ceso. So, I mean, um but uh I would really like to talk about another aspect. We we've talked about uh the biology side of it, the lungs and the oxygen and so but I do think Mexico has a chance on the psychological edge of it. Because I think the pressures on England. Mexico has exceeded what uh everyone expected. And England hasn't. And it's been trying to get back, well, I mean the the men's national team have been trying to get it back home for ages now. And they haven't been able to do it. And I think this is uh one of the best generations that I've ever seen. Uh ever since Russia 2018. And they haven't been able to for for one reason or another, they haven't been able to take the trophy back home. I don't know if it's the because of a dark horse, because Croatia knocked them out, because of penalty shootouts once again, or because Harry Kane crossed uh up the crossbar. So I think the pressure is on them. And uh that being said, I hope that Mexico loses, really.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Okay, just just just break into that. That's an interesting point. So can you just clarify a little bit? So when you say that about why why do you think it's beneficial, not just that you hope, why do you think it's beneficial for Mexico to lose?

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Well, I mean, Mexico has nothing to lose right now in terms of they they they are where they are supposed to be, right? And I I I think that that it would be uh it it would probably have a negative effect on the Mexican football federation, football in Mexico if they win, because all of a sudden all the decisions that have been taken at front desk uh are suddenly the right choices, which they are clearly not, just because this is a really special home advantage um uh cop. And and this it's it's it's an anomaly in the in the in the system and in the the way that uh football has been played in Mexico. So if it just so happens that Mexico beats England it would suddenly be like everything they've done for the past decade, it's the right choice.

SPEAKER_08 19:40

Legitimist.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Yeah, basically.

SPEAKER_02 19:43

So how they they they lose and so almost I mean as you say, sort of Mexico has reached a certain point anyway, but I guess you know we we covered a lot with Porsche and Troshka in the last few weeks about how um we we said at the time that Germany losing to Paraguay is better than Germany losing to France because it burns it to the ground. And then you have to start you have to ask serious questions about where it is that you are, and I guess that's your you know, that's not where Mexico is at the moment, but if Mexico beats England, then the perspective your perspective would be that actually it's it's masking a lot of ills.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yes, exactly. And I mean I'm uh I'm so cynical about this. Nothing is ever going to get uh nothing ever is gonna change in in Mexican football, ever. But that's it. It's gonna be like that for the re for for for at least my entire lifetime. So my only choice is like to hurt them economically. And if they go through and they validate the system and they win more money, so I think that that's my thanks Maribel.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

And Paul has some another comment over in the in the side. Yes, thank you. So use yourself.

SPEAKER_04 20:46

My thing is Emilio, and like I would like to add like uh talking about uh mental side of the game, like uh I think altitude has like taken all the spotlight, but like I think that the mental part of the game is like really important. I don't know like um yesterday game couple where they like really demonstrate like when you like when the team plays uh like all looking for the same goal and like they genuinely believe that they can achieve it, I think that that's really important. Uh I do think that uh Mexico players uh in tomorrow's game like they they can achieve like this state where uh they in working as a team they do believe they can beat England. If England wants to win the game comfortably, they they need to set the tone, uh have the pace of the game, control it. And like I think that if Mexico uh can take the advantage, not like in the scoreboard, but like more uh mentally and showing the England team that they they are in the match like to compete, like they can really make a really good. performance and like I do think that uh the game the auto media has like taken taken the spot like that to uh not a really well an important factor of the game but like there are also more points that uh this game is gonna be decided and I would think that the mental part of the game is gonna be crucial both for the England team and the Mexico team so like I do think that uh the team that um that achieves this this uh thing like first and more firm firmly is gonna be the one that will have the chances of winning this match thank you Emilio um Katie head of uh foreign policy and lead in World Cup um affairs at the at the embassy um what's from a from a personal perspective it rules from in a kind of I guess embassy perspective it's difficult isn't it because there's there's a finite conclusion to to this thing so what's your and you've been here for four years and you're gonna move on where are you at with this momentous encounter as a diplomat in the room John you're not gonna give me an answer uh it's gonna be a tense 90 minutes right it's gonna be a real tense 90 minutes where Mexico and England are going to feel like rivals.

SPEAKER_06 23:14

However beforehand and afterwards uh there's a friendship there and there's a partnership and that will last uh long beyond a football game and I think what an incredible moment and I'm really looking forward to some of the conversations that we're about to have um about the depth of the relationship and the history of the relationship between uh the UK and Mexico because it's it's really far reaching. But yeah it's gonna it's gonna be a tense tense 90 minutes 90 plus minutes with hydration breaks as well. Can you can you um hold yourself outside of these events or do you do you have a sort of a a twisted a knot in your do your bowels do something strange we we can talk about my bowels if you like John but no and otherwise uh so I am very lucky in that uh I'm going to go uh tomorrow to the game um and genuinely head and head and heart are torn right um because I think uh the last couple of weeks in Mexico City has been an incredible atmosphere um to to live the football the incredible celebrations that have been uh it's just been uh phenomenal and the passion that is is is in football and in Mexico has been absolutely incredible to to be a part of and I'm very very lucky to have been here um through through a posting that's that's meant that I can lead our World Cup reparations. But equally you know England is my home uh and that's where I'm heading back to uh London girl born and bred so um yeah sorry I'm not gonna give you an answer on that one.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

But but I think an interesting question is because of course you have these kind of contentious matches as um you know took place where with Portugal and Croatia where Croatia were robbed of the game but I I I guess what we all want is a clear cut outcome.

SPEAKER_06 25:00

Yes yeah and I think you know whatever whatever happens tomorrow and it does sound a little bit bit cheesy and we're and I'm sure we'll talk a bit more about it in the rest of the podcast. But we you know football our links between football between the UK and Mexico have have gone back decades, right? And even even with this huge event even with this huge event and this is really putting us on the map for for both countries and you can see that in in the passion and in the media and in the stories and even in I mean what a brilliant time for the memes right like the memes have come into their own against uh uh just give us some examples of that whether we're having baked beans or frijoles whether we're having tea or tequila whether we're having uh all these different types of things between the if we're between England fans and and Mexico fans and even walking the streets today in Mexico City there's so many joyous England fans about uh enjoying sort of what Mexico City has to offer in the cantinas and in things and you know we were expecting a lot of England fans to go to the to the to the English bars and sort of uh the pubs that are around here but they want to go to the cantinas they want a mezcal they want a taco they want to experience what Mexico City has has to offer and and so yeah I think that will that will live beyond the game tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Great thank you thank you Katie and I think Paul has a a comment over in in the corner as well thank you john this is Jack Link uh Declan's son a day a daily listener a daily listener and episode by episode listener of the World Cup etc podcast so it's an honor to be here today. My views on this game is me and my brother Tommy obviously you can hear my American accents this World Cup was set in America so for us the whole point about the World Cup and everything is going somewhere different. We went to Qatar last time I don't know how many times in my life I'll be in Qatar after that it's the the whole point about going somewhere experiencing something new so this one was always the one of in Mexico City looked like we didn't know until last week against Mexico I was always saying you cannot you cannot create a better game than this for in my perspective at the Azteca in Mexico against Mexico you can't ask for anything better than this. Obviously I have a bias I have a ticket for the next England game in Miami so I want England to win I think England can get a result I've been at these games before it's always been a little bit difficult and it's been a bit shaky in the media as Gordon said they gotta always the media people always gotta get their get their newspaper articles out and stuff about the altitude might may be a factor maybe not but I have confidence England will get through and me, my brother and my dad will be doing an episode of World Cup etc in Miami.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

A nice game there's there's three of you at and obviously you've attended as families before do you synchronize movements in in the audience or do you do you react differently to in the audience after I guess you know you you have genetic you have a particular genetic makeup do you find that you react in a particular way do you synchronize uh without even gauging games yeah when England score if I have a beer in my hand it's going flying and then I'm hugging my dad or whoever's next to me.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

If they're not next to me I'm hugging the closest England fan that's next to me. But again as you guys have been saying this whole night that's the same with Mexico that's the just the passion around football.

SPEAKER_08 28:26

It's that's what it's all about really the answer to that is in Germany in the Euros two years ago you couldn't stop taking your shirt off and wrapping it around in the sky like that. I went there I went to Germany with an incredible six pack and after four weeks on the beers when I took my shirt off when we beat Holland in in Dortmund the six pack had magically disappeared my son you'll have about so I'm not sure how much of that is audible but Declan Link was just telling us about his six pack and if we've missed it we'll we'll just splice that through but there's a there's a second wiser Massino who's about to speak.

SPEAKER_07 29:04

Hello hi how's it going um I'm Joe Messino I'm incredibly fortunate to have my parents have taken me to many World Cups over the years but I've never seen England play a host nation um so I'm incredibly excited to see that and I've always kind of supported Mexico since we saw them beat Germany in Russia 1-0 which was fantastic dad and I were there that day supporting Mexico it was the best so I've always sort of been a Mexico fan we came to Mexico City for the first match here unfortunately we didn't have tickets I've already got my Mexico shirt I might wear it underneath my England shirt tomorrow I don't know win or lose I'll take off the England one and just have the Mexico one underneath but obviously I want England to win however I think if Mexico do win I think they've got a pretty decent chance of getting to the final to be honest this side of the draw Mexico's been playing really well I think they can beat Brazil or Norway or Argentina I think they've got a really good chance so it's gonna be an exciting game if they can beat England they I think they can go far. Obviously I don't want that to happen but it's gonna be great and it's gonna be great to be at the Azteca with my dad as well.

SPEAKER_02 30:22

Yeah and you know and whichever way you look at it it's a huge event and thank you all for for being here uh tonight and for contributing and of course we've got a number of different sort of uh sections of the of the podcast to uh to go through big thank you to the embassy in uh British embassy in Mexico City for for their support through this all it's an ongoing lovely um uh values led led partnership and let's let's see what happens tomorrow night but in the in this uh in the subsequent episodes we'll obviously be talking about the history of uh football in in Mexico uh social programs that the Mexico uh the British embassy in Mexico uh lead and and also this kind of social and political challenges and opportunities that Mexico have had as well but so yeah for this first part we've been uh World Cup football etc and uh really appreciate you all being here at the Lamb in uh the heart of Mexico City tonight and uh let's see what happens tomorrow night.

SPEAKER_09 31:15

Thank you so much, I think