DISCUSSION: England vs. Mexico; Norway vs. Brazil; Balogun Red Card Ban Rescinded

Paul Schmidt-Troschke & Jon Bonfiglio with the latest from the World Cup. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Hi everyone, welcome back to World Cup Football, etc. Uh, after at the end of an enthralling uh instant classic between England and Mexico, which had absolutely everything goals, end-to-end action, penalties, passion, never say die from uh from both sides. Both England and Mexico uh refused to accept defeat, and it was just uh incredibly compelling. At one point, England ended up playing in a 5-4-0 formation. It uh it looked like, and it it felt almost more than a boxing match than a football game. And uh uh we don't have Declan Link with us because of course Declan Link is otherwise engaged in the in the aftermath of the of the match between England and and Mexico, but we do have Paul Schmidt Troschka here with us. Hello, Paul.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Good evening, John. Yeah, I mean, what an what an amazing day uh for world football in general, but um, I mean, especially of course for the two teams who won the two games today, which are Norway and England.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Yeah, just very quickly the story of the um we'll come to Norway towards the end of the piece as well, but just very quickly the story of the of the match. Uh uh Jude Bellingham scored two goals in two minutes halfway through the first half, against the definitely against the run of play. Um, and then the irrepressible Julian Guines pulled one back just before halftime. And at that point, it was just all Mexico. There was wave after wave of Mexican attacks. Uh, then in the uh in the towards the start of the second half, right back Gerald Kwanzaa was sent off for a studs up flying uh challenge, and then uh Harry Kane was was awarded a penalty after uh uh Raul Rangel, the the Mexican goalkeeper, tripped Anthony Gordon. Anthony Gordon, who, by the way, I thought had a great game, probably his best game for uh for England, certainly in this in this World Cup. And then Harry Kane conceded a penalty. First time a player has both been awarded and conceded a penalty since 1966. And uh Raúl Jimenez, uh Mexico's uh totem scored it inevitably in the 69th minute queue, not just the last 20 minutes of incredibly tense action, but 30 minutes because there were 11 minutes added added on, and then England um England held held on. Uh yeah, well, I mean, I guess uh Paul I one of the things that was really compelling about this was I just think both teams were playing to an incredibly high standard.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Um I actually must disagree. Um I think that uh because I think that Mexico definitely played to um in yeah, in regards to to it to its own standard, a very, very good game. I think that um especially the the second half of the game was the best Mexican play I have ever seen in my lifetime. I mean, of course, um our age is is is quite different, so um you might disagree, but uh the Mexican performance overall today was extremely good. And I think that if you if you look at the the English performance actually, um also uh I mean just just on paper, I think it was it was actually really bad today. I mean England had a had a ball possession of 31%. Um there's definitely a parallel to the the Norway uh Brazil game today, where uh Brazil um for the first time in a long time only um also had a had a low 30s ball possession. And I think that um England can really or must really consider itself today as a very lucky team because both both goals um were uh the I mean uh at this time the only chances they had uh shots on goal, um the two ones, and I think that they they both were both goals were um extremely lucky circumstances that the Mexican defenders just um were not able to guard Bellingham in the right way. And um, yeah, both these these moments were were highlights apart from the penalty, of course. And um uh yeah, and uh on the Mexican side, I think that um Mexico was specifically quite unlucky today. Um I think that that they would have deserved the win more than the than the English team. And I think that from from this performance today of the English team, I don't see a lot of um potential to actually achieve a win against uh against Norway um next week.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Okay, I mean let's leave that for for another day uh for the moment. I mean, look, you you're right about the possession, of course, the statistics speak for themselves, but that they're a part of the story and not the entire story. And I and I think that um that uh and I have been as critical as anybody else of Thomas Tuchel and the England side to date, but I thought that what happened today was that Thomas Tuchel set up England uh in a very particular way with a particular game plan which was design which which which which recognized that Mexico in the Azteca as a home nation was uh uh backed, cheered on by tens of thousands of fans, was gonna come at them, that there was no way around that. And so their game plan was was to defend, was to hold on, and then uh generate these these sort of key um these key moments for for in particular, of course, Harry Clay Kane, although he he was largely absent from the first half, but in particular Jude uh Jude Bellingham. I also thought that for the first time in in this tournament that actually um the wingers in particular really gave uh England a good outlet. And um and Anthony Gordon, as I mentioned before, I think had his best game for England. And it was also marked that he sort of uh for me that he hugged the touchline much more than he did before and was going for he kept going for the um uh instead of cutting in, he would just take himself at speed for for the sort of outer edges and then try to cross in. And then of course the penalty as well. His his speed and his charging forward was was sort of instrumental in in that. Yeah, I I don't I I think um I mean were Mexico unlucky, could it have gone another way? Yes, it could have done, but I don't think that um I think given what uh England were trying to do um and and uh and their game plan, I thought they actually delivered it pretty much to uh to to an excellent um degree. Uh we as regards Mexico, I completely agree with you on that one. I thought I I mean in general this match, but uh the whole of the last three matches has been an incredible uh ride. Of course, Mexico is shell-shocked for the moment, but you know, this is um uh this is the first side in living memory to have given, as you said before, Paul, I think the nation uh tangible hope uh and to have had the nation uh dreaming. It's a side which is paid with character, verve, creativity, commitment, as we've spoken about many times before. In the in the past, Mexican sides have kind of lacked belief and stumbled over themselves, but that was never the problem here here today uh at all. I think this is a real, or potentially uh could could serve as a launch pad for the for the future. But uh I don't remember seeing a game this compelling uh for for quite a while where it just seemed as though so much was at stake and it could go either way at any moment.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah, absolutely. And maybe I was a little bit too harsh and in my judgment of the of the English team, but um, I mean the the game plan definitely worked out, but um not by a lot, I would say. They I mean Mexico was a couple of times very, very close to uh to equalizing. And I think if Mexico would have actually achieved equalizing a 3-3, um it would have been over for England because uh England, uh as you said, they um for for most of the second half, I would say, it uh especially after the the red card, they were then playing a completely only defensive block of um of a 5-4, basically, and um and didn't create any any dangerous um chances anymore. Um I mean there is so much in this game, I think, for both sides. So um what you what you um alluded to on the Mexican side, I think that this can be, if if used in the right way, can be a real turning point for Mexican football on a national or or in international level for that matter, because what what Mexico today demonstrated is that they are actually capable of um of like uh yeah as a as a whole team um having this resilience to um to outside pressure, of course, first pressure by the fans by the whole country of more than 100 million people, but also pressure of two goals or of being two goals behind basically, and um you really could not see any change in in in Mexican attitude after the two goals in comparison to before the two goals, so that's a very, very big plus. Um, and I think that's also um due to um yeah the the the younger Mexican players which uh probably don't um don't have this this this baggage of um uh yeah of especially pressure from from back home, they just don't feel it in the way that the Mexican national team used to feel it. And on the English side, I think you you said the game plan um was qu was quite clear. I would definitely agree on that, and it worked out, but not by a lot, as I said, and I think that um that England really has to think about creating more chances in in different ways because the chances they created today, two of them were really or three and in the end, three were really dangerous, and um only due to being that efficient they were able to convert these chances into goals and then into winning goals in the end. But I think the English team definitely cannot rely on on that efficiency in in the games coming forward, and um, and I think in the end for the English team, you have seen the the the problems in in the last matches just reappearing today and Thomas Tuchel not being able to um to significantly uh tackle these issues. Um, I mean we have seen uh of course Gordon, um the the the left winger um was was able to get a penalty today. So I think that that that his performance today was was the best so far in the World Cup. Um but again I think this is uh what they've shown today is not enough to um to really have have a good chance um as a as a contender for the title.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

Yeah, I mean but again, I I think you know there are definitely questions for England going forward, um, and there's a sort of a pathway now which would involve, of course, Norway, but potentially you know Argentina uh as well. Which and these things get harder and harder. But as a standalone, I thought the event today, as a standalone um uh cultural moment in um at the Azteca in in Mexico, they they did do uh an incredible job. I would also just say a save word for uh Jordan Pickford because I thought some of his saves um, I mean, it was just it was an incredible performance, I thought, from from him. There were some which are absolute worldies uh there. Let's come to Brazil-Norway Paul. Um, another incredible game. Uh Brazil won, Norway two. Uh, and I was really surprised by this because I I I did think that Norway uh had a really good chance to beat Brazil, but what I didn't expect was after the really positive uh performance that Brazil uh put on to the put on the table in their match against Japan, in which they seem to have uh understood. They seem to have understood a little bit, a lot of their they seem to have understood a lot of their frailties, uh, to then come up with the fractured, fragmented performance against Norway, which was just very um just uh in in imprecise, I think, was was a real surprise. And statistically, um yeah, Brazil were outpassed two to one by Norway, which is just an incredible, uh an incredible statistic.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Yeah, I um absolutely I think that um what what uh the the biggest mistake of Brazil was that they just tried the the same approach they were successfully um uh successful with so far, and it just did not work at all against this uh this Norwegian team. Um you spoke about statistics. Um I can't remember a game on the um on the international stage, at least um outside of South American or Latin American football, because I don't I don't um follow this specifically, but Brazil had a ball possession of 32 percent, and not against um England, not against uh a very good France, but against Norway. And um, of course, um on the other side, Norway was just dominating the game, um, not uh specifically in a very persuasive way um throughout the whole game, but again, we spoke about that uh a lot of times um on the podcast um about this killer instinct which these extraordinary players have, like for example, Vinnie Jr., who didn't get enough opportunities uh today to show that, and then on the other hand, you had Erling Haaland, which also did not get too many opportunities, but the opportunities he got really used them, and I mean beautiful goals, and uh as a team against Norway, you really can't um systematically plan against Haaland, I think. Um that was very clear today, because the moments in which he stands out, um, in comparison to the moments where he is not taking a particularly important role, um, are so scarce, so specific. So it's it's about three seconds. If you miss these three seconds where Haaland from one moment to another just um completely changes his appearance on on the pitch, uh you you you're lost. You're completely lost. And um, this was the case in in both goals. And um yeah, in Brazil, uh what what I said in in the beginning, they just tried the same approach they um they were successfully uh so far with, and against the Norway, which played very intelligently. And um, I think they they just had the um the the upper hand, especially as we like to talk about that on the psychological level. They didn't have anything to lose. Uh, while they were very, very conscious about Brazil having all this pressure um of uh Brazilian fans, not only, but also um of the world, basically expecting Brazil to win on them. And um Norway just um yeah, made the best out of it and uh yeah, just persuaded the whole world that they are a force. Um everybody has uh has to take serious, really.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Definitely. Just as regards Haaland's two goals, the first one reminded me a little bit of Harry Kane's goal, the headed goal against the uh Democratic Republic of Congo, just because I mean it wasn't in the same place or anything, but just because of the amount of pace that it didn't arrive at Haaland with with pace, but the amount of pace that he generated with the header as well to uh to score the goal was uh was much the same as as Harry Kane. It just reminds us as well how how much how wide-ranging the skills of these top strikers are. And then the second goal, um, I was watching it with Latin American Commentary, and it was amusing because the the the Latin American commentator greeted the next uh the the second goal, Haaland's second goal, uh, as it went in with a shout of this man is an extraterrestrial.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

I mean it it it it really felt like it with both goals because um the comparison with Hurricane, of course, is very fair, but I think that this had a by Haaland was still um a notch above that because the um, as you said, the amount of of force of speed com uh combined with the precision, with the absolute precision uh with which Haaland um uh knocked this ball into the corner um of the goal was absolutely amazing. And um if you if you replay um or if you rewatch uh the scenes also from from the second goal, the amazing thing is um again the comparison with Hurricane, these strikers, they don't have to um have to see where the goal is or where the spot is they want to hit, and they they just no-look, knock the ball uh into the exact spot where they know it's gonna land, um, because they are so confident in their abilities as well, um, that nobody um no matter how how much of a world-class um defender or goalkeeper you are, if if Haaland is in this position in the box, you're just you're just defeated. And that that showed it uh itself once once more today.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Um just as a final uh point, Paul, um uh the the player, the US striker, following Balogun, uh, who got a red card against Bosnia and then got an automatic one-match ban, we learned today that that that ban has been rescinded, um, and uh he is now able to take the field against Belgium, uh, and the Belgian FA are up in arms, they're livid about this uh uh about this decision, which didn't go through any kind of due process or anything. And uh what we're hearing, what I'm hearing is that Donald Trump lobbied Gianni Infantino uh in order to get the ban uh the ban waived uh in order to allow him to play.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Yeah, I think that is um, in my opinion, not only probably, but surely the the most harming thing um incident which um happened uh in in the whole World Cup in regards to FIFA, because this shows that you can lobby FIFA in the end for anything, because where is is the line? If you can lobby um against the red card ban, then you can lobby against other things, which were with with more force, with uh with more uh smart diplomacy, with more money, whatever. Um, and I think that uh what what we've seen so far was actually surprisingly um uh yeah and um surprisingly uh and and and heartening. So uh that um that the FIFA actually did not give the the public too many opportunities to uh to suspect a corruption. Um and and this is again extremely harmful and of course a little bit comedic as well, that uh especially Donald Trump of all people uh was able to um to lobby uh for uh or against this red card ban with this uh with his buddy Johnny Infantino. Um I I'm I'm really a little bit at a loss for words because these incidents they just invite everybody who is criticizing FIFA or who is suspecting corruption, and this just opens the door for any other kinds of corruption allegations. Because again, if this is possible, what else is possible? Or is is is is really anything not possible, and um yeah, very harmful to to um to FIFA as as the the world governing body um of football. And uh yeah, let's see. Um I think that we we uh have not seen the the total fallout of of this incident.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Yeah, I agree. I don't think we've seen the end of this uh by any stretch of the imagination, but it it's definitely one of those things which is is uh completely harmful to not just this World Cup um, but also to um other sporting events and other World Cups into the future because it just you know it sets a it sets a precedent, and to be frank, it it stinks uh I think um uh pretty clearly. I mean, there's no other to no other way to sort of reference this. Uh Paul, thank you very much. And uh uh we look forward to having Declan back tomorrow with with any luck, and there will be a separate podcast in which Declan reports from uh his perspective of the England-Mexico match and uh other individuals who were with him also uh react to what they live through.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Yes, absolutely. John, thank you so much. Speak to you tomorrow.