DISCUSSION: England vs. Norway; Argentina vs. Switzerland

Declan Link, Paul Schmidt-Troschke & Jon Bonfiglio review the last of the quarter finals. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to World Cup Football, etc., where uh I am joined as ever by Paul Schmidt Troschke. Hello, Paul.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Hello, John, good morning.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

And also Declan Link. Hello, Declan. Uh yes, good morning, John, and uh hello Paul.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Do you have a uh sore head this morning, Declan? Not really. I should do because it was a late night and a long day, and uh the the uh the conditions in the Miami Stadium were incredibl incredibly uh tough on our bodies, unless you drank a lot of water because it was just so humid and so hot. You just stand out there for five or ten minutes and you'd feel like you'd just jumped into a swimming pool. But uh, all in all, um no sore heads, body is fine, and looking forward to chatting about both of last night's games.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

I guess um it it was I mean the match was so early anyway that you had at least some recovery time later on in the afternoon and evening.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Uh not really, because it was it wasn't that early, it was five o'clock five o'clock kickoff. The the the the issue was, and and it actually worked out quite well, was you just never know how long it's gonna take to get to these different respective stadiums. I mean, the easiest one has definitely been the Atlanta one if you're staying downtown, because you can literally walk to the stadium in 20, 25 minutes, whereas there was a lot of issues with regards to um where we were gonna get a a bus from, how to get an Uber, whether or not to go straight to the stadium, and then walk as far as we could. But actually, fair play to the whole Miami or organizing committee or FIFA or whoever they had running it down here, because it was it was extremely smooth. We we got we we were staying in Fort Laurel. Um we got an Uber to the Hard Rock Seminole casino where they laid on free buses as long as you had a ticket uh on your phone, and the free buses were plentiful and um took you straight to the stadium, and then you basically went to this particular lot straight afterwards, and there was tons of buses waiting to pick you up, which again shows the whole Boston and New York racket where you have to pay $98 for a train in uh in New York, which hopefully we'll have to do next Sunday, uh, and then whatever it was in Boston, $80 to get to and from the stadium. Miami had it right, it was free.

SPEAKER_03 2:41

Yeah, and um, I mean you know, it's not as though you're asking too much, but it's uh when uh it's it's I guess it's it's it's a good on these particular venues that do these um that go the extra mile because you end up feeling good about the experience, and then you're more likely, of course, outside of um outside of big tournaments to to frequent or to visit these these um these stadiums again. But um let's get on to the games without further ado. Let's start with uh your own personal experience yesterday. Um Declan, maybe just take us to before we get into the sort of the relatively objective analysis of the game, just take us into the into the stadium. What was it um what was it like? What was the sort of the the the difference between the the the groups? Um I saw a lot of red shirts, but then you know red shirts could also just as be just as well be England shirts as Norwegian shirts, but what was what was it like in there?

SPEAKER_02 3:35

The atmosphere was very good. I mean there's always a difference in atmosphere uh when you go to an afternoon or some of the silly times that FIFA have had these games 12 noon, three o'clock in the afternoon, five o'clock. You know, you get anywhere in the world a much better atmosphere when it's a nighttime game and it's dark. Um but fair play. I mean, in the stadium, there was a the I would I I'm just taking a hazarding a guess here. There was probably um 50 to 60 percent English fans, like real English fans and expat fans. There was probably um 25% Norwegian fans, and there was big clusters. Obviously, you could see the big Norwegian section behind the opposite the opposite goal to us. There was a bit massive section to the left of us, and then there was two or three big pockets of Norwegian fans. But but then it's very hard to work out, then as you said, John, because there's so much red and white in the stadium, which is the main colours of both teams. Um, but walking around outside beforehand, getting to our seats, uh it was a it was a little bit of a slow burner to start off with, but there's just this magical feeling when you get into the stadium and there's 30 minutes to kick off, and you suddenly feel uh everything ramping up from an atmosphere perspective, and then what you want to do is be sitting in your seat, although never anyone never ever sits in their seats when you're an England fan, um waiting for the teams to come out for national anthems. And it's and it's and it's it's really exciting. I mean, obviously, I've been fortunate to see a lot of games this World Cup and in the past, but for for new people going to their first World Cup game, or um you know, uh they've only been to a couple of games, the the excitement is palpable, and and once the referee blows the whistle, you know, there's just this incredible energy and noise, and the Miami Stadium is perfect for that. The problem was someone needed to turn the air conditioning on and turn the temperatures down about 30 degrees because it was just too hot and too inhumane for for human beings to be running around.

SPEAKER_03 5:31

I thought let's just come to you. Um, if you can just give us your uh your perspective on the England-Norway match um from a sort of an external perspective before we come to to Declan on the specifics of it. Um, what was your sense of the game?

SPEAKER_00 5:44

I mean, um, as I said, I expected Norway to be quite the formidable opponent, and I think that they um that they substantiated my reasoning there uh with with yesterday's performance, mostly at least. Um, first possession was all almost equal, 44% for Norway and 47% for England. But in the end, England was um just created more more chances, more opportunities, and I think that was the um the biggest issue of the Norwegian side was that even in possession they they couldn't really do some uh do a lot with it. Um it reminded me sometimes a little bit uh of Germany, uh of their playing style, just passing the ball the the ball along, and um England defended quite well against it. They they basically uh used what they um were up against um against Ghana, uh just the low block, defending, uh being very disciplined, and then using using counter-attacks. And for Norway, I think they that um they were always most um most dangerous in corner situations. So I didn't understand why Norway did not try it just to create more corner, um, more corners, uh, because uh I think that that would have given them them the best chance to to score another goal. And uh and I mean the first goal of Norway absolutely, absolutely fabulous. And um, yeah, and then uh but Bellingham is just just better uh in the end. And um, and we didn't see too much from uh from Harry Kane. Um, but I mean he he definitely can't rival can't rival Bellingham's performance anywhere anywhere close. Um then on in on an individual level I think that uh that Declan Rice, he you could really see that he still had to um to fight with uh uh with his illness, uh which was uh which he reportedly had um over the last week before the match. And um on the other side, the the most standing out um disappointment of a performance, of course, was Erling Haaland. I think he had 21 touches in the whole game. Um pass accuracy was quite low. Um, it was just not his day, um, not his day at all. Uh on the other hand, Martin Odegaard was uh quite fabulous as always, um, but it was just not enough. And I give it to you, Declan. Um, you definitely earned this. Um, but maybe uh just to sprinkle that in, have you heard about the spider camera line controversy already? Declan?

SPEAKER_02 8:28

No, I I have not, Paul. Please enlighten me.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

All right, so this is going around the internet um since uh since the end of the game yesterday, namely that um apparently Jordan Pickford um during his kickoff before uh England's first goal uh was scored, uh apparently the ball while he was um while it was flying was hitting one of these uh one of these strings, these uh lines where the cameras, these big spider cameras, which which move around all uh all over the pitch, um, was hanging. And um according to to FIFA rules, then um the the referee should have interrupted the game and actually given the ball to the team who touched it last. Um so that that's the that's the controversy um which is uh yeah which is uh flaming up uh in in the internet right now. Um and uh but I mean that's obvious coping, right? Um so Declan, what was uh what did you think uh on a more particular level?

SPEAKER_02 9:36

I have max maximum maximum respect for Norway. Uh I I didn't really want to come across in the build-up as an arrogant English guy because I know from a football perspective, you know, you don't go through your qualifying campaign, win all eight games, knock Italy out, and then get through to their first quarter final in the history of Norwegian football without being a good professional team. So I I knew it was going to be a hard struggle. Uh, and it turned out to be. I mean, you know, what watching the extended highlights this morning after the game last night, because it when you're in the stadium, it's very hard to sort of digest everything and to to remember all the different moments. But you know, like Oyvon said on the interview yesterday, Andreas Shelder up, his goal was was a fantastic goal. Wonder if it was a little bit lucky, but it was a fantastic goal. And then during the course of the game, particularly the second half, Norway never stopped coming at England. I mean, there were predictable periods in the game where they were just tapping the ball back, tapping the ball sideways, whilst both teams were sort of keeping their breath and trying to conserve energy. But there was plenty of um high-speed moments in the game, which, you know, in going through it again, Norway hit the crossbar. So, and that was at a critical stage which could have put them ahead. There was two disallowed goals, one for Norway and one for um England, and then there was uh a potential penalty for um uh when Oscar Bobb got in front of Jed uh Jed Spence. I don't I personally don't think it was a penalty, but again, the the the Norwegians just never gave up at all. And ultimately, the poor goalkeeper Nyland at the end of it, you know, that was that was a save he should have made, you know, nine times out of ten. It was a fairly straightforward uh save. And and fair play and kudos to Jude Bellingham because he's playing immensely at the moment, and it was such one, it was a good time for him to score the goal just before half time because if Norway had gone up 1-0, that would have been a different conversation in the dressing room with Thomas Tuchel. The fact that England went in 1-1 gave the um emphasis back to the to the English team. The fact that Tuchel did make a couple of subs at half time uh was interesting. So I don't know to your point about Declan Rice if he is if it was tactical because he was on the yellow card, if he just didn't have the energy because of the sickness, or he's still got an on an ongoing issue. But Tuchel is being paid to make the big decisions, and then obviously the goal when the goalkeeper spilled it, Bellingham was there to pounce on it, and it was a really good finishers. Um uh it was it was almost like a finishers, it wasn't like a forwards goal. So I think the Norwegians can hold their heads up very high. Uh, as you said, Odegaard, considering he's had a very disruptive season with Arsenal in the Premier League, the mere fact he played the whole of the 90 minutes plus extra time, uh, you know, I take my hat off to him. Um same thing though, on the same side for you know John Stones, who's hardly played any Premier League football for Manchester City this year, was written off as an England player. You know, not only did he play uh, you know, fantastically, solidly, but he managed to last the whole game as well and was playing around on the field afterwards with the fans messing around that his shoulder was out of place again, which was quite funny. Um, I think Thomas Tuchel in his post-match conference was was actually quite not negative, but he was down on England, very disappointed with the with the um performance. But I I think that's a little bit disrespectful to Norway's great performance. Norway were uh they need to continue this because they were a true, they're they're a true international power now, and long may it continue. But I also think Tuchel is the master of um saying the right thing, pushing the right buttons, and he didn't want England to go into the game on Wednesday feeling big-headed and cocky. He wanted to pull them down a notch or two, and his um his tactical substitutions were excellent. And going into the game with all the yellow cards, you know, he managed to get everyone through without getting another yellow card. So, injuries aside, they're gonna be, you know, a fully fit squad apart from Jordan, team mum, on Wednesday against Argentina, who was um who was wearing uh full kit included uh alongside his broken arm, I saw, which was which was nice.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

Um just uh to pick up a couple on a couple of points there, um, just as regards uh Jude Bellingham, I think there's um how he reads the game is is uh is is I think pretty incredible. His finishing, I think, his almost sort of strikers' instincts. A lot of the goals he scored have just been almost sort of deflections or strikes from nearby. There's almost a sort of a line linear-esque approaching that he engages in, uh, but it but it's about him being in the right place. And and certainly that second goal, he was the one that read quickest that it might have been spilt and then reacted to it. And like and I agree, Declan. I think that that goal um at the end of the first half, which was fundamentally against the run of play, um, uh, was uh at a really crucial moment for uh for England and sort of changed the panorama, if you like, uh during the um during the halftime break. Um it seems to me that Declan Rice clearly, whether it's illness or injury, I mean, I think he was off the pace with the previous games, and then he apparently had this illness midweek as well. But he definitely, you know, when I think of Declan Rice, I don't think of a player who labours to move around the pitch, but that's definitely how he's coming across at the moment. And and I also wonder whether, of course, Erling Hoyland was taken off um uh during extra time in the in the half-time break between the extra time sections. Um I wonder whether he was he was carrying a knock-all match in a way because he didn't seem to be to be as uh sort of mobile as um as he uh as he had been in in previous games. Um definitely just a word on the you mentioned the Thomas Tuchel um interview at the end. I thought the Jude Bellingham's reaction, very quick sort of body language, and he sort of said whatever, um was was was that an actual point of conflict, or is that a sort of immediate talking point uh to to sort of draw a uh a gap between coach and player?

SPEAKER_02 15:48

I I mean I definitely think uh if if uh Thomas Tuchel was stuck on a uh on a desert island and he was gonna have um uh his three he could invite three people along for dinner, Jude Bellingham wouldn't be on that list. There's definitely there's something there in their relationship, there's some type of friction there, and it seems as though during in the build-up, obviously during the World Cup qualifying, it was an ongoing issue that Bellingham was either injured or wasn't making the squad or Tuchel was trying to manage him, and he seems to have managed him superbly up until now because obviously he is the first midfielder to score um four goals at this stage in a World Cup campaign for England from a historical perspective. His his body language, you know, again, you know, he's still such a young guy. You know, you just in the emotion of the of the game afterwards when you're in the um in the press zone afterwards, it sometimes you can't hide or mask your real feelings. And I think with the with the benefit of a day after that, Bellingham also will come to terms with the fact that you know maybe England did not play as well as they could do, but again, that's mostly because Norway imposed themselves on England and did an incredible job. And I must say admit as well that with regards to the tactical stuff that Tuchel is doing, when he brought Reese James on, who hasn't played for two weeks, maybe a little bit more, and he's been an ongoing side conversation. When he came on and was playing in midfield, he was absolutely sensational. So it seems like Tuchel has this master plan all the time, and he has those players that we've spoken about before who are never going to be starters. They bought into the fact they're impact players. Um, and and and Reese James played sensationally considering he hasn't done any proper work for two weeks and played. And then our new hero, much as we um chided him and derided him before the tournament, um Dan Byrne, he came on and he got the biggest cheer of all at the end for his you know, shoring it up, trying to make sure that uh Jordan Pickford was protected. So he's becoming a new hero as well for us.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

I think um Dan Byrne, on the basis of his Mexico performance at the Azteca, has definitely taken on a sort of a folk hero component. That image um of Raul Jimenez and the overhead kick and then him blocking it with his head only half a yard away, I think is is likely to be one that Dan Byrne dines out on for years to uh to come. Paul, just a word on on Norway, a word on Norway through the tournament, what they've brought to to the World Cup final.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

I mean they um first it was a historic run, right? First quarter final for Norway ever. Um they they showed uh the the essence uh of an um of a perceived underdog, which then shows that um over the last uh four years they they managed to create something incredible with with this team. And and the nice thing is that we can all be excited for future Norway uh or similar future Norway performances because the team is still quite young, especially uh when it comes to um to the key players. At least they we will see them in in multiple World Cups going forward. Um and uh and I think that they definitely they definitely made made the best of it, and um, and they showed the world uh that it always is uh it's it's always worth trying to build a team. I mean, Norway is is a is a country of uh of 5.6 million people, I think, right? Um, but they just uh I mean we uh uh we reported on on Norwegian regional football as well, and uh and it's quite amazing how how this small country um managed to um over the last 20 years, especially. Um, I mean, very much to the credit of Stalus Holbaken, he is uh one of the key architects of this whole system, which now created this team, and um a little bit out of uh I mean not only a little bit, but definitely out of nowhere, and they are here to stay. And I think that's the final message of Norway um from this World Cup is we are now a serious European contender. Everybody has to uh has to be afraid of us, and uh for the best of reasons, we um we are uh quite formidable both in at uh in in offense and in the defense, and everybody has to uh now everybody knows that uh you you have to be very careful when playing against uh against Norway.

SPEAKER_03 20:29

Um Declan, the almost mythic semi-final coming up between England and Argentina.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Yes, can't wait. I mean we we ended up uh again getting out of the Miami Stadium was a lot uh a lot simpler than we anticipated. So we were able to uh sit, we we got back to the Hard Rock Seminole Casino place, a bit rammed in there with people. We could see the first half, but it wasn't that easy because there were so many people there and there was a lot of you know big screen TVs, but you couldn't get that close to them. So we ended up um get getting back to the Hollywood area, trying to get into an Irish pub that we knew about, but it that was rammed as well. So we ended up going to like a Hooter's Equivalent, I forget the name of it, which was which was which was good because it was lively, but we could sit in front of the TVs and watch the whole of the second half. Um what was really quite interesting was the minute Conor McGregor and this silly UFC fight came on, half of the half of the um the people in that place turned their minds over and they put it on more TVs than the uh Switzerland Argentina game, which really surprised me in South Florida. Uh luckily only lasted 69 seconds, so they switched a lot the TVs back to the end of the Switzerland Argentina game. Um, but yeah, no, it's mouth watering. Wednesday is, and uh the the fact that uh the gate again, it sounds like uh Switzerland, from what I could gather, you know, were were were just like Norway, very robust, um, never and never gave up. Uh the red. Card the dive was you know one of the worst dives I've ever seen. If the guy fully did fully deserved to be getting his second yellow card, and it's and it's set up absolutely perfectly now for this massive game at three o'clock in uh Eastern Standard Time in Atlanta. And fair play to Argentina to push on through. Uh because it at one point it looked like as though it was heading towards penalties, and then Alvar Alvarez and Martinez scored the two goals in extra time, and it was on paper uh a good result for Argentina. So yeah, that's that's haven't really got my head around Wednesday yet, but we've got plans to get up there and we've got tickets, so looking forward to it massively.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Paul, um Argentina once again made I mean Switzerland good side, incredible World Cup tournament and performance, but Argentina made heavy weather of it. Um another match again.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Yes, and uh this this match was uh was a very very good sign for Argentina um because they were able to score first and um to keep that score for for quite a long time um really but uh against a very formidable uh Swiss uh Swiss offense. Um I mean Brel Embolo is still still an exceptional player, and um I was very very sad to see him go off the pitch yesterday. As you said, Declan, completely deserved. I think that when it comes to to dives and um and and kind of acting, I think that uh FIFA should actually uh even uh tighten the rules more, uh yeah, tighten the rules more um in the end, um, so we don't see uh don't have to look at so many charades, which um uh in in in most cases are are just used to um to get some time off the clock. Um and the the sad thing was that especially um around the 70th minute, um after I mean uh it was five minutes after uh Dan and Doye scored the the first goal for Switzerland, there was a really uh really constant and strong dynamic um uh on the uh in favor of of Switzerland to maybe even go on and score another goal. Um and they had multiple chances yesterday. Um but a very uh a very big reason for uh for the Argentinian troubles was of course uh Grigor Kobel, the Swiss goalkeeper. He just uh had an amazing, uh, an amazing performance, uh, performance yesterday. And and uh one thing which Switzerland uh almost perfected yesterday um was again defending in a in a very in a very low block. Uh then in the end they were forced to because they only had uh still 10 players remaining on on the pitch, but they really gave Argentina a very hard time. And uh, and I mean the the numbers tell you exactly that story that um uh eight minutes uh uh before the the game would have gone into penalty, uh to a penalty shootout, uh Julian Alvarez scored an amazing goal. And uh yeah, once again, um as you said, um as you said, John, uh Argentina managed in the last couple of minutes to uh to turn the thing um the whole thing upside down uh clearly in their favour. And uh in the end, it was a question of time, at least after after the red card, if uh or when Switzerland will break and and not if. And uh for Argentina's uh from Argentina's perspective, if came it came uh earlier than um then later.

SPEAKER_03 25:37

Yeah, among the phrases I'm not gonna miss from this World Cup is definitely the low block, which seems to have become in vogue. Let's hope it very quickly comes out of vogue. Uh again, Declan, any final thoughts um ahead of another uh break today with no games and Monday, no games, two consecutive days of no games.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Yeah, no, I'm I'm I just you know a bit of fatherly advice to BST. Uh don't expect to uh update your CV or resume and get a call from the FIFA predictions slash rankings committee anytime soon. Uh because um there's there's there's other people out there that uh obviously can predict and and rank teams better than Paul Schmidt-Trotzka can. Um and fair play to FIFA, they got it right. The four top seeds are playing Tuesday and Wednesday, and really both of those games are absolutely mouthwatering, not only for the fans of the respective countries, uh, but also for the um for the neutrals out there. It's gonna be two days of incredible football, and may the best two teams win. Um, you know, I and I think both Dallas and Atlanta are worthy locations to um host the semi-finals. I just it's pretty scandalous that New York is a you know not a good location for the final, that they're getting the opportunity to um to host the final on Sunday the 19th. So now apart from that, absolutely fantastic weekend. Poor Gordon's definitely feeling the pace. He was looking a bit weary last night. Um, because there's there's there's one stat that I heard, and I'm not going to have the numbers quite right, but England have travelled something like 12,000 miles from their camp in Kansas for the game so far, and France have have um uh uh something like 1,400 miles because they've stayed in the northeast. Um, so I do think that uh the the Argentina team, uh particularly with their age, you know, on and and the fact they've been taken to some pretty grueling long games recently, I think they're gonna be really feeling it on Wednesday against England. But I also think the game in Mexico and the game down here, from a physical and a psychological perspective, is gonna take it out of the England squad. I think Spain are just very, very smooth, and there's a very good chance that they could cause an upset. Uh so I think you know both games could go either way Tuesday, Wednesday, and and it's probably a good thing we're all having uh 48 hours away from football so that we the the the build-up can happen uh for Tuesday's game in Dallas and and uh Wednesday's game in Atlanta, and may the best teams win.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

Yeah, it's um with Argentina, of course they'll be they'll be tired. They've definitely had some grueling games, but equally, if anything gets the Argentines up uh for a match, it's it's facing the English, uh little doubt. Just in defense of uh of Paul, uh I mean he he said he plumped for Norway over England in the end, but um said that Norway would uh would really be a tough um uh a tough match for for the English, and um and you did the same with the with the Swiss Deckland and the Argentines, and I think both of those, to be fair, Paul might have come down uh slightly incorrectly on the Norway prediction. But to be fair, I think you both picked um the fact that uh those two matches were definitely going to be sort of difficult, difficult wins for uh for England and for Argentina, but cracking semi-final lineup, of course, over the next few days, lots to to talk about. And um I I I think we'll do a preview of those of those matches um probably tomorrow, if that's okay with both of you. Have you adopted Paul, John?

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Because that was a real like fatherly like a fatherly statement protecting your little son.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

Well, look, you you said a minute ago giving you giving Paul fatherly advice, and there was nothing fatherly about it. So I thought so I thought I'd come in with some actual sort of um some some paternality towards um towards Paul. Just as a final point as well. Of course, given the fact that England had travelled so far, um, adds to my rationale of the fact that they should have they should have trained at altitude in Arizona anyway, and then they wouldn't have they would have basically travelled exactly the same distance and be all the fitter and all the more prepared for it. I can uh feel Gordon Massino wincing as I say it.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

It's gonna be it's it will be very uh um interesting post-analysis of the World Cup from an English perspective to find out whether or not it was a good thing to position themselves in um in Kansas. Uh I think they always felt that they were gonna have to go to Mexico, um, whereas the French seemed to have got it right because they had an an underlying confidence in in the fact that they would they are the best team, they are the best squad, and the way that they would win their game, so there was a level of predictability that they would be staying in the northeast. So um it'll be interesting to see when they do post-mortems whether or not England should have positioned themselves in a different part of the country. Um so let's let's see what happens. I don't think I don't think Kansas to Atlanta foreboat because Argentina there as well, um, are gonna be uh they're easy relative trips. It's just the fallout and the and the effect that uh mentally, psychologically, and physically, both teams uh if they can raise their levels to perform like they should do, and it's what's gonna be a uh incredible, um, tense atmosphere because there isn't too much love lost between the Argentine fans and the English fans.

SPEAKER_03 30:55

No, no, absolutely not. Um, on which note, um, thanks uh thanks, Paul, thanks Daklin, and uh look forward to talking again soon.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

Absolutely. Bye bye, guys. Fun as always.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

Thanks, thanks, John, thanks, Paul. Take care, have a good day.