LIVE: Reaction from Atlanta After England vs. Argentina + Context on Times Radio

Declan Link with live reaction in Atlanta after the Argentina vs. England match, and Jon Bonfiglio gives analysis of the political context live on Times Radio.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Hello and welcome to World Cup Football, etc., with me, Paul Schmatroschka. Today's tragedy from an English perspective was devastating. Sixty years of hurt will become at least sixty-four years of hurt. Another coach's future is unclear, and Argentina once again scored two goals within less than ten minutes short before the final whistle blew. It is a match for the history books and will make lots of English psychologists a fortune due to another traumatic event on the pitch which has millions of victims. The debate about Leonor Messi versus Cristiano Ronaldo should be over now, and the world will see Spain clash against Argentina for the first time in football history in a World Cup final. But for now, my co-host Declan Link has lots of comments on the game by many different people and himself as well, of course, having lived to this debacle life at the Atlanta Stadium.

SPEAKER_10 1:22

Hello, Declan Link here from downtown Atlanta. 25 minutes away from the Atlanta Stadium, where we've just witnessed Argentina coming from behind to beat England 2-1. I'm absolutely devastated, absolutely gutted, and really not happy with Thomas Tuchel's uh tactics in the last 20 minutes or so, and I just have this empty feeling in my body right now, so it's very hard to sort of put my words together to be nice to the English fans that I'm hanging out with, and at the same time be nice to the neutrals and the Argentinian fans who are absolutely everywhere. Congratulations to Argentina. At the end of the day, the best team won, but I'm gutted, I'm devastated, and I will go around some of the table where we're gonna have some food soon to get some reactions about um what happened to the game tonight, but uh another opportunity lost by England and onwards we move, but uh Cell A V okay. Following on from our introduction, I would go uh like to go straight into deep end here with Gordon Messino, um, our loyal World Cup Football etc. uh contributor who's gonna give us the uh synopsis on what happened tonight. Uh Wartson all.

SPEAKER_05 2:51

First half good, second half appalling. I thought we came out, we played well, we matched Argentina in the first half. We started falling behind a bit in the second half as they knocked it around, but then you know, good play by Rice and Rogers set up Anthony Gordon and took his goal very well, and at that time, you know, we looked, if not all over the winners, we looked as though we could win it, but then mysteriously, especially after the hydration break, we just sat back and defended. It was as though the ghost of Southgate, the ghost of Bobby Robson in 1990, had come back to haunt us. We we just did not have the belief that we could go on and win. And against an Argentina team, who are a half-decent team, not a not a great team, you know, we let them back into the game, and you know, we let Messi do his thing for the second goal, and it was just so so disappointing. We never seemed to learn from our mistakes.

SPEAKER_10 4:13

I completely agree, Gordon. We didn't shut them down, we just gave them all a space, and we should have taken the game to them. Thank you, Gordon. I've got some random guy called Dave who wants to give us his thoughts on the game tonight. Come on, Dave, don't hold back.

SPEAKER_06 4:30

I was very disappointed by the performance after the 55th minute. It was uh, as Tupel said, it was very passive. Uh, I think you should bear some responsibility for that. I think taking off Anthony Gordon and putting on console when you had so much talent on the bench was a big mistake. And I think if England were tired, as many of them looked quite leggy, I thought there was many options, many options to uh to to choose from. Uh so uh yeah, disappointed. It was very much um the worst case scenario after 84 minutes. England were one-il up and we lost in normal time. Any team that does that has to take a long, hard look at itself.

SPEAKER_10 5:22

Brilliant, thanks, Dave. Right, I've got some random guy called George here. George, what are your thoughts on the game tonight? Uh, so overall, a great deal of disappointment.

SPEAKER_07 5:33

Uh, I feel that the fans' perspective is a bit under uh valued in all of this. That you know, this is a really expensive World Cup where people have gone to, and I think we're ultimately disappointed. I think you know Tuchel has got away with selecting a poor squad for the tournament. Um, and of course, you know, in the end, he's got us to the semi-final and he will survive, but I'm not sure that his tactical decisions all the way through uh should make him survive. I think that uh I'm disappointed um that England weren't able to turn games earlier in the competition, like against Ghana. And today, you know, his he's gone, he's regressed to Gallard Southgate. And uh after Croatia, I thought that we were now going to be a team that was on the front foot. We were gonna set the agenda, and we really are not setting the agenda, so I'm very disappointed.

SPEAKER_10 6:27

Brilliant, thanks, random George. Thank you. And here we have Joe Masino, Gordon Son, gave us some in massive good insight in Mexico City last Sunday. Completely different, contrasting emotions tonight, Joe. How do you feel? Uh incredibly disappointed.

SPEAKER_08 6:45

We completely fucked it.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Ohmy Tuchel.

SPEAKER_08 6:48

Did you say bucked it or fucked it? Fucked it, mucked it up. Tommy Tuchel's terrible tactics.

SPEAKER_09 6:54

After that hydration break, it was just the wrong decision to sit back the whole time. Um, and we lost it ourselves. There's no controversial decisions as far as I could see. Argentina didn't cheat up, we just cocked it up and lessed it. Um, so yeah, bad managerial decisions, I think. I don't even blame the players, just uh Thomas Tuchel messed it up.

SPEAKER_10 7:19

And that's it. Brilliant. All right, Joe. I think there's a massive cloud sitting over our little booth here. So onwards we go. Cell of V. Let's move on to the Nations Cup in the fall. And last but not least, I have my favourite son, Jack Link, my youngest, who is completely devastated like his old man.

SPEAKER_02 7:38

Jack, give us your thoughts on today's game. Happy to be on another appearance on the World Cup football, etc. podcast. I'm not devastated as my father is, I'm just disappointed, not sad or angry. We played Fantastic for 55 minutes. We were a little bit better better than Argentina for 55 minutes, so we scored the goal. And then for some reason, Garrett Southgate came over and played nine men at the back, which was outrageous. Um very disappointing, just just crazy. I don't understand why they would do that, why they wouldn't play them toe-to-toe. Don't know why they would sit back. I I really have nothing else to say about that. I'm very disappointed in Thomas Ducal. I thought there he was a more better tactician than that, even in the entire besides Mexico. I mean, I just don't understand why he would do that. Why uh every single game in Argentina they've been down and came back, and they always come back. They have special players. You cannot do that against Argentina. We're supposed to be one of the best four teams in the world, and you do not play like that as the best four team in the world. Have confidence in yourself, play with confidence. Very disappointing. We'll be back. People take our money again.

SPEAKER_10 8:52

Jack, there was no rendition at the end of the game tonight from the Ingram players of Wonder Wall, quite obviously. Do you want to have a little rendition again of Wonder Wall tonight? Or are you gonna take a pass on the game?

SPEAKER_02 9:03

I'll listen to with myself. I wish I was more sad, honestly. It's the biggest thing. Like, I'm not even like sad, it's just disappointing. I'm like, what what happened? What did you guys do? Why did you guys change it? Keep the same, keep the same mentality going forward. But we'll be all right, we'll be we'll be back, we'll be back. England aren't going nowhere. Brilliant. All right, thanks, Jack.

SPEAKER_10 9:27

Well, there you go. Uh, World Cup Football, etc. Global listeners. That is the uh verdict from downtown Atlanta, probably close to two hours after the game tonight. Extreme disappointment for the England fans. We were there, we had it again within our clutch, our grasp, and we let it go. Um, lots of Argentinian fans uh boisterously hanging around, enjoying the moment, which is fair play to them. Uh, congratulations to Marcelo and Michael Landau after our earlier podcast today. And Oddwoods we go. So thank you. We will have a complete roundup of the semi-finals uh at World Cup Football, etc., uh, some point tomorrow in the next couple of days, in anticipation of hopefully a fantastic final Sunday at the New York Stadium in MetLife uh New York, New Jersey Stadium.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Thank you so much, Stecklin, for these live insights. Now over to my other co-host, John Monfilio, who provides us with some very interesting but even much more relevant context on the historical and political relationship between Argentina and England, which you also gave on Times Radio earlier today.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Uh just on that point then, um stay with us, Matthew, um, because we can speak to John Bonfilio, uh Latin America correspondent, um, on just that point. Good evening to you, John. Hey, Carol. Really good to have you with us. So, I mean, look, uh, Argentina threw to the final of the World Cup, but I'm looking at that um banner held up by some of the Argentine players. Las Malvinas son Argentinas. Um I mean, I don't think they were supposed to do that sort of thing at a World Cup match.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

No, they're not supposed to at all. I mean, it's it's expressly prohibited, of course, to bring political symbols or signs into uh into any aspect of the of the World Cup or FIFA events, but for Argentina, like it or not, the issue of the Falklands uh is inextricable from uh from anything to do with England and anything to do with playing England on the uh on the football pitch. And um look, I think for for for um Argentina, this World Cup, there's been a kind of a religious fervor to uh to to their play, to their to their narrative, which which links in specifically to the Falklands, it links in specifically to Diego Armando Maradona, uh, and his no longer being uh around, and of course, 1986, what happened against England in 1986, and um and defeating England is a kind of key part of that narrative, the perceived narrative of Argentina going on to win the World Cup and bringing uh coming to a sort of full circle of an Argentine national narrative.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Yeah, and I mean we we've seen senior politicians in Argentina really ratcheting up that whole issue over Las Malvinas, as they call it, and Argentina's claim uh on the Falkland Islands in just the last couple of days.

SPEAKER_04 12:29

Yeah, and clearly Argentine politicians see an opportunity here, an opportunity not just with a national fervor that this is whipping up, but also the fact that this is a tournament of finals which is taking place in the United States of America, and the fact that Argentina has never been as close to the USA, and very specifically this Trump administration with its uh anarcho-libertarian president, uh Argentine president Javier Millet, to be able to push that particular uh button. And it's a point that Donald Trump is relatively receptive to. So that there's a kind of that there's a perception of a window of opportunity that the sport is actually providing and allowing for leverage of.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah, I mean it's fascinating that. And um I mean, a couple of the uh players in the Argentina side, including Martinez who scored that uh the second goal that clinched the victory. Oh, I'm sorry, it was a different Martinez, another Martinez who's in the team, um uh plays for an English club, Man United.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

Yeah, well, it's it's you're right. There's a number of Martinez in the in the Argentine um side. It's really interesting because, for example, another um Argentine player, midfielder Alexis McAllister, who plays for Liverpool, just in the last couple of days, his mother, who lives in England with with the family, has had to say that she will not join in anti-English chance, that the English that England has been very good to her, and the very fact that she's had to sort of um deny that right, if you like to behave in what is perceived to be a sort of a standard Argentine patriotic way, which of course means anti-English way, is pretty staggering.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

And tell us a bit more about the reaction that there's been there in Argentina to tonight's victory. Um clearly they they they've got the final looming now against Spain. Um but tell us a bit more about the reaction to the result over England tonight.

SPEAKER_04 14:21

Yeah, of course. And and I'm and I I don't want to sort of say or convey that the final is not important for Argentina and Argentines, but actually this victory over England is almost as important as the the winning of the World Cup itself, if not a sort of a step towards that, that um holy grave. Look, what we're seeing now, of course, is thousands of ecstatic supporters that have completely taken over the central streets of uh of Buenos Aires, and and that's going to go on long into uh into the night. By tomorrow morning in the UK, we're gonna be seeing sort of frenzied scenes and photographs and video of what's taken place with tens of I mean at the moment tens of thousands of supporters, but that could actually increase into the hundreds of thousands.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Um great to speak to you. Uh John Bonfilio. Thank you very much, John. And tomorrow we will be the trio again for a full and comprehensive discussion about today's semi-final. For now, thank you so much for listening and goodbye.