World Football ETC
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World Football ETC
DISCUSSION: World Cup Final Preview
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DL, PST and JB are back to discuss Argentina’s inevitable looming defeat (?) in the World Cup Final.
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Hi everyone, welcome back to World Cup Football, etc., where today we're going to be previewing the uh slightly unexpected to some extent, I think, final between Argentina and Spain, and of course, joining uh me, John Morfilio, to discuss all matters appertaining to the last match in the 2026 World Cup, are Declan Link. Hello, Declan. Uh good afternoon. Good afternoon, John. How are you? I'm good, thank you. And uh Paul Schmidt Troska. Hello, Paul.
SPEAKER_01Hello, John. Uh, and I think we uh all three of us, we of course look much more forward to the other game, England versus France, right, Declan?
SPEAKER_02Uh no, no, not really. Let's let's move on. You know what would have been quite good fun though, because France and Argentina absolutely hate each other, both from a recent football perspective and I think from a historical perspective. It would have actually been quite good fun the third fourth game if it was France and Argentina kicking lumps out of each other.
SPEAKER_03That that that's a very good point. Um yeah, and the main reason they hate each other is basically because of Argentine racism. I think there's no there's no point sort of uh beating about the bush on this one. Um, as we have seen today with the declaration uh from current uh rugby union, England rugby union captain Jamie George in their current match against Argentina. Um they said that if there was a repeat of racism that took place in the last match, that they're gonna walk off the pitch. And we of course saw and heard the the songs being sung in the team bus after the uh the 2022 World Cup win for Argentina, and then a whole series of um a litany of racist incidents that have continued to take place, and which you know I've I've been forced to cover as well in the last couple of weeks on um on Times Radio and others. Just before we we get onto the final though, Declan, um a quick word about the third, fourth place playoff. We're not going to linger on this too long, but uh, I was just seeing that uh there are seven changes being made for England side against uh against France. But uh I was sorry to see that there wasn't an eighth change. If we can change, if we can suddenly change or the players can be changed willy-nilly, uh, is there not an argument to be made for the fact that uh it might be interesting and worthwhile to have a substitute coach coming in for the third, fourth place playoff and not have to be um be uh be pushed into experiencing Thomas Tuchel's uh terrible tactics, as I think another uh another Link family member called it a few days ago.
SPEAKER_02I think if uh by any chance, and there is a distinct chance this could happen, uh, based on the starting line-ups, England, as you said, have got seven changes. France have got a very, very strong 11 predictably, including in Batley, who's obviously dying to get that golden gold boot award. Uh but again, understanding I haven't changed one bit on my perspective on Thomas Tuchel since the debacle of um the other night in Atlanta. You know, if by any chance England gets smashed today, it's only going to increase the level of pressure and the heat in the kitchen on Mr. Tuchel. So uh not that I ever want England to lose at all. I don't. I want it to be a good entertaining game, lots of goals, and um and what have you. I would uh I would I can see a scenario where where England do get smashed today, and then you know, maybe that door gets open wider for Thomas Tuchel to walk out of.
SPEAKER_03The um who is your current favourite obviously we're gonna keep talking about this over the course of the next few weeks. Who is your current favourite to get the sack first this um over the course of the next few weeks and months? Thomas Tuchel or Jose Mourinho?
SPEAKER_02No, if if if it if Thomas Tuchel is who I'd like to move on, I and I would like him after this game to hand in his resignation. So Mourinho's got a bit of uh runway as with the uh La Liga season starting and what have you. So I think if either of them are gonna get the bullet, it's gonna be Thomas Tuchel, hopefully later tonight or tomorrow.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, um because also uh Josie Mourinho not losing his job too early in the season is gonna keep us entertained, I think, as well. As the Real Madrid Circus uh rolls on. Just a quick word before we get to the final Paul. Uh, you do you have a current favourite favorite for um uh for uh for for Thomas Tuchel and uh Josie Mourinho to be sacked first?
SPEAKER_01Um I I of course would uh would rather like uh Josie Mosinho go first and uh have the opportunity to continue seeing this uh this English German theatre over there, um which of course plays very much in the hands um of Germany as well.
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean that you know I wonder what the odds are for Josie Mourinho losing two of his first five matches at uh as coach of Real Madrid, him losing his job, uh then Thomas Tuckle being sacked or resigning, Tuchel taking on the Real Madrid job, and then Josie Mourinho being appointed manager, coach of uh coach of England. God, that would be uh that would be odd, wouldn't it? So let's pretend that I never even mentioned that um that possibility. Let's get on to tomorrow's final. Um, Spain, of course, against Argentina. Two very different sides, um, Declan. I mean, almost uh is very uh other than the fact I think that they both have something of a I guess a sort of a family boys club um team band of brothers sort of uh feel to them that in terms of the functionalities of the side themselves, they're they're complete they couldn't be more different.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean obviously Argentina are uh are are really a team of of individuals in a way, but obviously Scaloni's done a good job of of getting them this far in the second consecutive World Cup tournament. Whereas whereas you have that feel with Spain that they're more of a younger, obviously there's a few exceptions, but a younger, up-and-coming, like a team, right like a like a professional club team rather than an international team. And uh de la fuente has has fostered a really good uh culture within within the Spanish setup. Uh some extremely good young players who, as we said the other day, look about 14 or 15 years old. You know, you compare you compare that to the grizzled old uh Christian Ren Romero, Lissandro Martinez, um uh Lionel Messi to a certain extent just because of their ages. It's a complete different contrast. It's gonna be an interesting game for the neutral. Uh both play a similar type of setup with a 4-3-3, and uh, you know, Spain will probably do to Argentina uh, if I pull my crystal ball out, that England didn't do and should have done to Argentina. They'll be they're they're a they're an infinitely better team as was uh illustrated in the Euros finals in 2024 when they they they knocked England off the park without any questions, really. Uh and I think they'll do the same to Argentina tomorrow. It's gonna be one game too many for Argentina, in my in in my humble opinion.
SPEAKER_03It's um I mean it Spain definitely have, but you know, uh I'm gonna say something which I've said not that long ago. Spain definitely have the tools to to pull Argentina apart. Um uh obviously I said that about France and Spain prior to the to the semi-final, but you could definitely see a situation in which um Spain's kind of total footfall just um just gives the Argentine sort of fractured side the real runaround. But of course, Argentina, as we've said many times before, Paul, Argentina also don't operate to rational footballing principles. They uh they're they're operating um on a whole different, irrational uh sort of series of of approaches and and fuel and gasoline that that gives them a level of um of unpredictable uh unpredictability going into the final, which at least to some extent must worry Spain.
SPEAKER_01That's definitely a fair point, I would say, but it's uh it's a different thing if you if you need this um this unpredictability against countries like Egypt or Cape Verde, or if you have Spain as your opponent. And I think that Spain, um, in the end, they really don't care about it at all because they they didn't care about anything at all about uh in in the games before. I mean, if you if you remember France, I've never seen like a an on-the-pit real-time um uh how do you call it when uh when when the waiter pulls pulls apart the fish um for you to to get out uh all the bones? It's like fill filletation or something like this. Filet.
SPEAKER_03I bet there's an actual word in German, a very precise word in German that describes exactly that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's it's the the the the filletation of uh of the um of the uh other other team of not any team but France. And if you if you if you do that to to such a team, to a team where uh probably most people would have uh would have said that that they at least are going to be in the final, um, then you don't really have to be afraid of an Argentina who really needed in the end, I think, um luck and God, more than anything, um, to to win basically all of the last four games. And um if Spain can um can in this uh in this case just make the Argentinians uh suffer and and make them tired and and just they doing their thing, which they which they always did, um I I still think that Spain has to be two goals ahead before the before the 80th minute, that would be a very uh I mean three at best, of course. Um because if if if there's three goals ahead, then there's a hundred percent um chance that uh that Argentina will not be able to come back. Um but even I think Spain is the only team which uh which uh must only shoot one goal and they can defend against uh against an Argentina. Um so so let's see. But I think that that in the end, uh to answer your question, no, Spain does not have to worry about this uh this unpredictability.
SPEAKER_03It's worth reminding ourselves that Sam the Argentina have not led in any of the knockout matches within the within the 90-minute period. Those comebacks have taken place in extra time or in in injury time or in or in extra time. Um I think it th there's an interesting point there to be made, Paul, about the fact that if if Spain are in the lead, then um then of course they'd want to be well in the lead. Um is there a word, Paul? You you've made me think it's a completely different uh uh meaning, this, or a completely different word, but I I quite like the word in English, the defenestration. Are you aware of that word, the act of throwing someone or something out of a window? It's kind of a pr a surprisingly specific term in in English. Is is there something similar in German?
SPEAKER_01No, uh unfortunately not. If you if you ask Russians, I think they uh they will definitely have a word by now for uh throwing people out of windows, but it was never a a German thing to do, apart from um from the uh the the event which started the the 30 year war, uh like I don't know, some 500 odd years ago, right? Um so no, no, no window throwing specific word in German, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_03Well that's that's disappointing. I thought Germany, I thought German had a highly specific word devised for John.
SPEAKER_02I've I thought it was the purposeful permanent clearing of forested land for non-forest uses, such as agriculture, livestock ranching, mining, and urban development. Isn't that what deforestation is?
SPEAKER_03So I I said defenestration, uh Declan, but I'm glad that you very quickly Googled deforestation and gave us such a precise description of a word, which I think which I think pretty much everyone knows what it means.
SPEAKER_02I think my fishing was just got a bite there. It was one of the quickest nibbles in history.
SPEAKER_03It was very good. I I I I didn't think in again in our bingo in our uh lottery of uh this this podcast that uh we would have you very precisely defining what deforestation uh was.
SPEAKER_02But I'm and I bet you didn't hear me tap away on the keyboard either, like usual.
SPEAKER_03Did you mute yourself? I didn't I didn't spot that. No, I didn't. So yeah, or or is it or or is it a definition you'd learned very quickly this morning?
SPEAKER_02I'm just becoming an old pro at this, that's what it is.
SPEAKER_03There you go, there you go. Um yeah, so uh I mean Deccan, would you uh do you see Argentina having any real chance at this to continuing to ride that sort of wave of of of emotion on emotion and national storytelling that that they've been engaged in at this this World Cup and giving Messi the sort of the perceived uh send-off that his his reputation and his career deserves? Or or or is it is that almost is or is that notion completely out of the window?
SPEAKER_02I think just on a pure football perspective, I think Spain are streets ahead and should be able to take care of business. It's the the nor the normal factors that come in association with the Argentine national team, such as the dark arts, just such as some of the stuff, some of the tricks they'll get up to on the pitch. I think you you can't knock out of the equation, the the impact that the the supporters, the fans are gonna have, because I saw a news article this morning on Sky, I think it was, that showed the airports in Madrid and and Barcelona as some of the major Spanish airports, and there was hardly any Spanish fans going to New York, they were all it's Argentine Argentine fans. So uh I think that the three-quarters of the stadium is gonna be proper Argentine fans. The atmosphere is gonna be extremely tense and loud and noisy like it was in Atlanta. Um, so I I do feel that if you factor in all of the different ingredients that's going to be in the recipe tomorrow, you know, Argentina could still pull a rabbit out of its hat. But I just think Spain, particularly if they score one or two goals early, will take all of that out of the game. And much as I would, it'll be great, you know, anyone who loves football would would, you know, from Messi's perspective, it'd be great for him to win a an another World Cup after the famine of many years before that. I just don't see it happening.
SPEAKER_03Did you um did either of you, Declan Paul, see the the photos this week that were taken 20 years ago of a very young uh Leo Messi, then 19 or 20, bathing a baby uh Leminamal?
SPEAKER_02I did. In fact, I was going to quote an article which is on X um from uh someone by the name of Martin Del Palacio, originally translated from Spanish, saying this was because he starts with that very story. This World Cup is the most random in history. The two stars of the finalists appeared in a photo 20 years ago with one bathing the other. The referee of the final was arrested for being at an orgy with drug and weapons. The president of a country called of a country called FIFA to annul a suspension, and he succeeded. The country that benefited was later humiliated in his own home. A 40-year-old unemployed goalkeeper from an African country that no one has gone to was the only one who managed to stop both finalists in 90 minutes. And he goes on and on and on with all these bizarre, weird facts that are associated with this World Cup, but started with messy bathing uh Lamini Mall.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, um can I give you uh can I ask you one one other question as well? What is what links politically um uh Argentina, Spain, of course, finalists, and the British Empire? What links? I mean, obviously, one of those things is going to be the Faland Islands, right? So, what is similar about Spain? What similar incident has occurred should be Spain? Yeah, so that Argentina have been fined, were fined in 2014 ahead of a match against Slovenia, either ahead of or after, for exhibiting again one of those flags. Uh the Falklands are Marina Son Argentinas, the Falklands are Argentine, and Spain have got themselves into similar trouble because they use uh the exact same phrase about Gibraltar. Gibraltar is is Spanish uh as as well. Um, of course, uh you wouldn't be a uh um a sports event in the USA without another intervention from our good friend uh Donald Trump, who uh has come in. The White House issued a statement in the last few days and said that there's no problem with Argentina using banners like that in a sporting occasion because of First Amendment rights in the United States, uh, which they refer to, of course, as as free speech. Any any thoughts on on that, um, Paul, and specifically as regards FIFA and FIFA's own rules, uh and the the uh the let's call it the vagaries, the gray areas that we've seen related to that in the last few weeks?
SPEAKER_01I'm uh I'm a little bit uh two-sided on that. Um for one reason. Um I actually was surprised that FIFA allowed the display of the Palestinian flag, which obviously is only um can only be interpreted as being a uh a political act because Palestine, of course, is not playing in this World Cup, neither is it an um an internationally uh fully accepted country uh in the world. Um so there there seems to be some some wiggle room, FIFA leaves itself open. Um and uh I mean from from a British perspective, of course, it's uh um it's completely unacceptable in the end. But uh, you know, for uh for for an for an from an outsider's view, um I actually I I somehow I mean people actually died, right? And uh not only 10 or something. Um but this this this conflict is conflict is quite quite comedic because it's about islands which which I mean the the there is no no no like a mineral worth, it's just really just just symbolic. And it's it's neither the only island the British uh the the the the English still still own. Um I mean there there are so the the South Sandwich uh uh South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, for example, or Tristan the Cunya, um, which are like they're out out in the ocean. So I I quite like it, uh must I must say I quite like the um the the entertainment around uh around the whole the Falklands uh Falklands thing. Um of course to the uh to the anger of of our British uh uh listeners, um probably, but uh I'm I'm sorry for that.
SPEAKER_03So just I'm gonna push back a bit on this because I I don't think, look, I mean, uh my general perspective on the Falklands is you know, an imperial outlook is imperial, whether that's British or Argentine, and it's for sure it's it's a ridiculous um uh historical anomaly that the British have the Falkland Islands, but equally it is just as ridiculous for the up for Argentina as a nation state to demand that it belongs to it just because it's on on its continental shelf. Um, and uh so I I wouldn't differentiate between the two uh perspectives. They are completely outdated and as regards sort of the taking over of territory. And also there is actually significant economic wealth. I don't think this is a pr this is a uh this is uh a valid argument um which which uh changes the the situation one way or another. But actually, one of the reasons why the the Argentines are particularly focused on it at the moment is because um actually the Falkland Islands has one of the highest GDPs in the world because of the uh specifically prawns, and so now it is one of the major prawn fisheries on earth, but also the uh there's been a series of findings as regards minerals on the continental shelf that extends out from South America into the Falkland Islands as well. So it is a uh it is a sort of proper boon potential current and future boon territory. And um, notwithstanding that, irrespective of what your perspective on the Falklands, if you are as a sporting organization, have a rule about political statements, then you have to have a rule about political statements. And that's that shouldn't be dependent on what those political statements are, and unfurling a flag or a or a banner which says that a uh a particular territory belongs to you in front of the world's media in what should be an impartial sporting occasion is clearly fundamentally problematic.
SPEAKER_01Yes, uh first, thank you so much for for the um for the little uh not really history lesson, but uh lesson about the the Falkland Islands. Um I I wasn't expecting to learn anything about the Falkland Islands today. Um but uh but thank you for correcting um my uh my missing missing knowledge there. Um I mean in the end, of course, apart from from uh any funsies, you're absolutely right that um that should that this should be enforced and that this particular statement of um the the Falklands are Argentinian and of course um it sh should not appear anywhere uh either in in in in a spoken word or um or on a on a banner uh in any stadium. You're absolutely you're absolutely Absolutely right. Um, yes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, sorry for the for the little interruption there, but my understanding is that the vast majority of the population that actually reside and live in the Falkland Islands do want to stay, keep their status the same as it is at the moment. They don't want to go and become part of Argentina.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so the UN, the UN has uh we're obviously digressing here, but it's worth doing just for a minute. Um so the UN have this sort of this um this stipulation that uh it has to be the local population that decide uh as regards their autonomy. So the you're absolutely right, again, in the same way as Gibraltar. I think the last referendum, which was a few years ago, something like 97% of Falkland Islanders um uh I I in fact think that it was only three Falkland Islanders uh that said that they didn't want to remain British. Everybody else said that they did. The Argentine perspective is that that was uh an implanted population anyway, um, however many generations ago, and therefore that it's um it's not a valid uh referendum in much the same way as you could argue in Ukraine what the Russians are doing is they're sort of pushing in uh Russian populations and then manufacturing uh referendums, which then say that the population are in uh see themselves as Russia and want to be part of of Russia as well. So, but you you you you're right, Deccan. Fundamentally, the the most recent referendum from the local autonomous population says they want to stay British, but it is maybe not quite as as straightforward as that. Well, it's it's obviously an issue which has been going on for a long period of time.
SPEAKER_02I don't think no, I don't I don't think uh the population of Greenland, many people would like to be invaded by the USA. Anyway, just going off on another tangent there, let's stick to the football.
SPEAKER_03No, you're right, you're absolutely right. But the indigenous the indigenous population of Greenland is indigenous, and that that is that is a different uh case in point as well. And it's maybe worth remembering at this point that there is a link between World Cup football, etc., and Greenland, because um we have tried to get them onto the program uh a number of times to discuss the the the sort of the the the sports and footballing situation there, but currently they're not speaking to anybody because they won't don't want to generate any issues with uh their dear friends at the United States of of America. Anyway, right, enough of that sort of side, that little sideline, that little sidebar. Declan, your your score prediction for tomorrow's match.
SPEAKER_02A very comfortable 3-0 win for Spain.
SPEAKER_01Paul I I also tend towards uh towards a 2-3-4-0, and because I think that um by now the the Spanish team can do the same to Argentina, what they also did to the French national team. And uh and I think I don't think that they uh that they will concede uh in the end of the goal um against Argentina.
SPEAKER_03That leaves me in a really difficult position because if I predict exactly the same as you guys, then that's um that's really boring, right? Um I think it an obvious thing to predict is if it if it does go two or three nil to Spain, um then there's gonna be a lot of bad blood. The Argentines are not gonna like that at all. And I think we're gonna see a lot of uh let's call it jiggery pokery um towards the end of the towards the end of the game. Um I'm gonna let Argentina score a goal there. I think uh maybe Spain can win and Leo Messi can win the golden boot. So let's call it 3-1 uh Argentina just for the sake of everybody having uh something of a of a happy ending. We will see, of course, what uh what takes place and we'll we'll speak in 24 hours and debrief after the the match the match there. Uh thanks as ever, Declan. Thanks as ever, uh Paul, and look forward to talking again soon.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, boys. Absolutely. And uh go go England one last one last time.
SPEAKER_03Go England. Good night and good luck.