MentalityWithEbuka

Are Men Allowed To Grieve - MENtality With Ebuka, Ft. Banky W, Ali Baba & Samuel Otigba

• Season 2 • Episode 1

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In this episode of MENtality with Ebuka, host Ebuka Obi-Uchendu is joined by co-host Banky Wellington, alongside comedy icon and media entrepreneur Ali Baba and entrepreneur Samuel Otigba, for a deeply reflective conversation on grief and emotional suppression among men.

The discussion examines how men are often conditioned to internalize pain, despite experiencing profound losses, whether through bereavement, relationships, identity shifts, or missed opportunities. The episode unpacks how this silence shapes emotional wellbeing and long-term mental health outcomes for men across Nigeria and the broader African context.

Grief is not a weakness, it is a human experience. This episode challenges long-held beliefs about masculinity and calls for a cultural shift toward emotional openness, healthier coping mechanisms, and redefining what it truly means to be strong as a man.

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 • Ebuka – Instagram, X
• Banky W – Instagram
 • MENtality Podcast – Instagram

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Join the Conversation:
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MENtality With Ebuka is a production of Knight & Sheriff and EME.



SPEAKER_04

On today's episode of Mentality with Ebuka, men are often taught to suppress grief, but loss of loved ones, relationships, identity, or opportunity are some of the most defining experiences of manhood. We're joined, of course, by my co-host Banke W, MC comedian entrepreneur Ali Baba, and entrepreneur and public figure Samuel Otiba. This season of mentality with Abuka is brought to you by Schwebs and the Glen Leavett. Um, is it my super reminds me of like secondary school? Names of noisemakers. Oh, yeah. I'm very graphic. Thanks for coming, man. Thanks for being here. We have a bummer, so I don't know what you guys want. Water. Cocktails, water whiskey, British passport. This is the wrong show. Okay, so let's just get like two kinds of water and cocktails. How's everyone feeling today, man?

SPEAKER_01

Well, um I'm in the what was that recovery mode from from burying my mom, burying a friend, and um we have quite some some downtime.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, that's that's always a uh it's one of those things that you don't prepare for. Yeah, um, and it's also something I feel like you can't really explain to people until you experience it. True. And as you can see, guys, we have a heavy topic today. We're talking about masculinity and grief today on the mentality, and um I think it's probably one of the most important conversations we're gonna have this season or ever on the show, because um, from a male perspective, and probably even more from in from a Nigerian perspective, how we handle death, or how we're supposed to handle death, or how we are taught to handle death, and then the ceremony or ceremonies around it. Um we're gonna get into a lot of that. I think the first time I remember experiencing loss on that level, I was probably like eight. It was my favorite uncle who at the time I wasn't really sure what he meant, but it's this guy who, whenever I went on holiday, you know, not every uncle gives dashes you money, but you always have that one that is like, and he was that guy who you know was generous and had my time, and he was young age, he was about 28. Oh wow, but he was married already, um, and then he had an accident, boom, and it was a very weird position to be in trying to understand what this means, he's not here anymore, and now seeing relatives, uncles, my dad, and all of these people trying to handle that loss, I guess in the way they understand it. Um was quite interesting. I think the water is okay. No, give me this one. You can switch it up, yeah. Um ever since then, I I mean, as you go older, you now start understanding what death means and all of that. But I think the one theme, even as young as I was then, was I remember hearing all of that be strong. Be strong, be strong, don't let the other people see you be a man, you know, and all of that. And it's just I think I want us to start the conversation from there, how we handle grief here. Um, you already mentioned you lost two people at once. You said your friend was.

SPEAKER_01

No, there were different times, but uh and and there were different kinds of relationships. One was my mom, and the other one was a friend. You know, the the the two types of grief. There's uh one that you anticipated, and there's one that's unexpected. The one you anticipate is if somebody's about like 92, 93, 92. You sort of started, you start you start putting it together at any time now, you know. So make it easier, maybe easy. No, it makes it easier than if the person died at 42 or 55, you're like it's still a lot more, you know. But by the time the person gets to like 70, 80, but the bottom line is grief is driven by values, yeah. The value of the relationship determines how deep that is that is true. So if there was no relationship at all, the person passes, they're like, Oh, sorry, yeah, you know, but the value then determines how well you grieve the loss, and uh it helps with your coping mechanisms as well. Yeah, uh, a friend of mine was telling me, if if your dad died and left two billion dollars, you will grieve. Oh god, but I'm supposed to be laughing. But understand it, you will grieve and you'll be like, Okay, but there's something, but there's something at the end of the tunnel. That tunnel he went through that when he saw the lights, you know. But then if it passed and you're like, oh, and then they then say, you know, as he passed, the bank has called, and he left straight, he left he left about like 300 million that needs to be paid. Yeah, the grief becomes worse. You are like, Oh god, there's a joke that says that a person died with money, say died and left a lot of money, you say the man who passed on took glory, and then if he draws you now, say the wicked out on their worst. So it's it's uh it's a whole lot of things to encompass because uh as like I said, the value of that relationship. For instance, you talked about uh your uncle was you because he did some things for you, very true. So the absence of those things, then you know, one thing you people skip in the Bible is when they said, if Jesus were here, this wouldn't have happened. When they said Lazarus comfort, you know, they said if Jesus were here, this wouldn't have happened. Now, the two ways I look at that one is for the person that died and for the value that Jesus brought to the table. So if Jesus were not, if anything happens like that any other time and Jesus doesn't come to wake Lazarus, you you feel the pain, but you also know that this Lazarus must have been a good guy for the people to be wanting him not to go. We're sitting down sometime when we lost this my friend Mutala, and he was a great guy by the phenomenal man, and and somebody said if money could buy life, this guy wouldn't have died because he had expended a lot on his medical bills, and the other guy said uh yes, but you know that when uh Taya Deyoku of GTB then passed, it was like if somebody has said, you know this thing that is wrong with Taya, there's a guy in India or in Bangladesh or anywhere that can take it, take care of it, they fly the person in. But you see, that then limits you because you then feel how so it's not even money, you know, there's some pains that you that you go through and you feel like because you can deal with it, then it's not a pain anymore. Um, my dad also says that um if you are lacking something and you can afford it, then it's not a problem. If you are lacking something and you can afford it, it's not a problem. So if, for instance, policemen stop you at one place, slap you, do all this, and then you're just smiling because you know you will get back at them. No problem. But when you know they will get away with it, and there's nothing you can do, that's the inevitable that's when the cries from inevitable death, like something you can't do anything about. It makes the grief even worse because you feel like you are at your wit's end, there's nothing that you can do. Yeah, so you're watching somebody just slip out of your hands, and maybe the person is just going slowly and saying, Take care of the family, and you're saying, No, hold on, hold on. We watch it in movies, war movies where they're telling the guy, the guy is bleeding, he's lost his legs, and you're telling the guy, just hold on, we'll get you to the base, we'll get you to the base. And then the guy shuts his eyes, and the guy is like, then he meets the commandant, you say, What happened? Said, That was nothing we could do. Yeah, so for me, it is that value then drives the amount of grief that you then bear. That grief then becomes something somebody can point at to say, which is why they say God will give you the fortitude to bear the loss because they know that the fortitude that God will give you is God that knows it. Yeah, no man, you I watched the video not too long ago. It's funny. Two guys were standing there. I don't know which of you of you have seen it. Two guys were standing together, and now he's doing a selfie and some guys just ran past and snatched the phone. The other guy goes, Don't worry, is it not a phone? You want to kill yourself? And then that guy brought another phone out of the pocket, and the guy says, Ah, which phone is this? He said, Mine. He said, What are the one they took? Say it's yours. That's to tell you that some people will make you feel like that is funny, yeah. It's funny, right? So make people make you feel like, oh, what is this problem? You see somebody who's grieving, and you're wondering, is this the first time people are dying? Yeah, but you don't know what they're doing because that doesn't happen to you. But when it happens to you, uh uh threshold for pain and grief differs.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it does. It does.

SPEAKER_01

Which which is why somebody can pass today, and two days later you see the wife is carrying on. Yeah, sometimes the wife needs that strength, may not be there, but she needs to put the facade of that strength for children, for family, and for everybody so that she can sure coping mechanism.

SPEAKER_00

Sure. Let me let me ask this because you you you you made a good point when you said the value of the relationship determines the level of grief, right? So the pain is not just the evidence of the loss, but it's a the proof that the love was there. Yeah, and you're coming from uh um I guess that that statement probably describes what you've been through pretty well. So if you don't mind, and again, this is a heavy topic, and that's what I'm glad Agmon is here because he's already making us laugh. But I know that it's a it's a heavy topic, it's a heavy time really for both of you. Um, but if you don't mind, maybe take us what that take us back to what that journey has been like for you because I know you recently lost your mom. Yeah, so you know what were the events leading up to that, you know, and how have you been able to process that?

SPEAKER_02

So I just buried my mom two weeks ago, so it's still very much fresh. Accept my condolences, right? Thanks, thanks, Chief.

SPEAKER_00

And she was how old?

SPEAKER_02

62. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03

Um, before in the past, grief used to be a distant relative, you know. I would it would be other people bearing the loss, and I'm there helping them get through it, even though they were friends or people that I knew, but it wasn't really this close to home. For the first time in my life, I'm having to deal with the weirdness of it. It's really weird because being strong, like people would say, because you're a man does not really hold water because um you would realize quickly that there is no strength in grieving, it's just emotions, and that emotion is almost like a part of it has been cut off. I was really close with my mom, and I think it's the memory of saying, okay, this person isn't here anymore. And all I have with the person is just a memory. And the thing about memory is with time, memory actually fades. Whether they're happy memory, whether they're bad memory, it would fade with time, and then all of a sudden that starts becoming a different kind of guilt. But seeing grief up close and personal has given me a totally different perspective on what other people felt. And whether it was a loved one, whether it was someone that we weren't close with, it's just a gentle reminder that it's like the end. Like this is what end feels like. So as much as you're crying, you're actually seeing yourself in that space. Not now, not you know, in the nearest future, but it's an inevitable event that's going to happen to everyone. And the crazy part about this is everyone's journey is so different. So you're not totally clear on what their own journey is, on their own path to their God or what it is, but you have to live in that emotions. Yeah, you have to process it, you have to acknowledge it. You it's even though you're expecting it or it happens suddenly, you have to go through that process. In the past, I will crash out. Um, I've lost two really great people that I considered really great friends. These are people that at a pivotal part in my life, they played very great roles. They were either comforters, they were people that helped me navigate a certain parts, and their own demise was pretty sudden. And I crashed out. Crashing out in the sense that I processed grief like any other person would. And most times people actually go through that, talking about myself being people in the most unhealthy way. When this happened, and I was expecting this because my mom died from cancer. She's been treating her cancer for the last three years in America. So it was in, you know, we were expecting it. There were times when the cancer relapsed, and we're like, yeah, you know, God did it. That was a testimony. I remember I tweeted about like my mom beat cancer. You know, I had a picture, I was so proud, and you know, it was a very beautiful moment for me. And then when this finally happened, my old self in the past would be asking God why? Why do good things happen?

SPEAKER_05

Why do bad things happen to good people? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

You know, why, why, why? But I've come to the realization that two things. The first one is good things, bad things happen to everybody.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And I don't think human beings and human beings inclusive of myself, we were created to actually go through pain alone. I don't think our human capacity allows us to process certain pain alone. Um, and that's where the second part actually plays a role, the part where you have to understand that there is always help. And as a Christian, I am not a religious person, but have a very beautiful relationship with God. God gives us the fortitude to actually go through that. He's pretty much the only one that can allow you to go through that. And going through that is you understanding the love God has for you. And that love as what is what has kept me through this very difficult problem. Um, um, you know, time. I constantly always go back to him with all my vulnerability, all my heart, all my pain. And he gives me the strength to go through it. And what that strength looks like is I actually do cry. I actually do process it, I actually leave myself at the moment. Sometimes this grief actually creeps up on you in the most awkward of ways. You can be in the office, you can be on a trip, it could be music that you're listening to, it just triggers you like that. But the beautiful thing about having that love of God by your side is you can bear it. And that's the thing about life. Whether it's pain, whether it's joy, whether it's disappointments, whether it's failure, whether it's success, God is always there with you through the process. And it's that intimacy that allows you to understand life from a very holistic perspective and have clarity that as much as good things are happening, because that's the weird thing, good things were happening to me in the moment my mom died.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So does that mean that God is not loving? Does that mean that he's not all comforting? Does that mean that he couldn't stop it? But I don't understand the relationship my mom had with God. The only thing I can control are things within my own power, my own relationship, my own emotions. And when you find yourself in this space, it allows you to actually stay true to the things you ask for. I ask for not just strength, I ask for the ability to process these emotions. Wherever these emotions are, give me the healthiest way. And one of the few things that have happened within this process is community. That's why you know, friends are one of the I don't mean acquaintances, I mean people within your inner circle, yeah, people that you have a relationship with. One of the beautiful things that have happened to me around this process is that they've gathered around me, they've shown me love beyond just financial love, but like actually just being there, just listening. Yeah, and when you find yourself in this position, it becomes clear that God actually does love you. Because then you understand that you are not just someone having to bear all that pain alone. There are people around you, not because they've lost someone, but in that moment, sometimes I may be like really, really down, and I just get a random call. Hey Sam, I don't know what it is. I just want to check on you, I want to send you this food, I want to, you know, I just want to just listen to you. You can open up to me. That isn't coincidence. Yeah, that's God bringing help to you at the right time. So I'm understanding it right now that the only way we can go through things that actually break people. Because the truth about it is you have to understand that grief actually do break people. I have friends that have broken from grief and they've not recovered mentally, emotionally. I have a lot of those people, and I'm understanding that it's in that understanding of the love that I have from God. It's that understanding that keeps me sane.

SPEAKER_06

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. You mentioned people being broken there, and I think that's what I wanted to lead into. Because I mean, Bankie, I don't know if you've had anyone really on, I mean, I think your parents, your parents, another I think your parents are still here. So at least maybe not on that level. Um, I think the closest we had a mutual friend who passed about 11 years ago, Peter Bello, uh, in a helicopter crash. And so I think we kind of went through that as a friend's group. Um, but I want to go now to the masculinity of it all. And um, you know, how consciously or not, we're sort of conditioned in this part of the world. I don't even know if it's just this part or everywhere, but we're talking about Nigeria now to sort of handle these things. And with you guys who have just gone through it, I don't know if it was if you felt it on that level, where as the sun, as the sun, you know, okay, cry, but don't cry outside too much because you still have to prepare for this burial ceremony. Um in my part of Nigeria, the Southeast, funerals are like an entire celebration, whether the person is 25 or whether the person is 90. It's people are gonna come back, there's gonna be a whole thing, and it's sometimes even more elaborate than happier ceremonies like traditional weddings and not. It's quite controversial, but it's a fact. I mean, we know someone in Nigeria today who became a celebrity of his mom's funeral.

SPEAKER_07

He's a big cubana.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, yeah. That funeral was the whole thing, remember? Yeah, so in the South East, funerals are sort of you know very elaborate. So, as a man, you lost someone, but people are saying, okay, so how are preparations? You know, you are supposed to suck it up almost immediately and start putting things in motion. Traditionally, women have sort of a mourning period even when their husband dies. I don't know that men do things like that, you know, where it's sort of as a guy, chop, chop, chop, keep it moving, you know. And I wonder how that's if that's shifting. And how I'm seeing your diagram is very interesting. I've been trying to see where you're writing. I'm seeing like there's a whole chart.

SPEAKER_01

I feel like the viewers, I wish the viewers could see this, but it's the whole chart of maybe maybe later in your post-production, maybe you can add it. Okay, so let's let's take let's take this with like bit by bit. You know, yeah, you talked about culture.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Now, for culture, for some men, when a wife dies, your grief is not compounded by you being asked to shave your head. Yes, there's that.

SPEAKER_00

Some of us God shaved the head.

SPEAKER_01

So you have you have that the culture, the culture then leaves, and and then you also have that issue of if your spouse died for a guy after like sometimes five months or so, they're telling him is this how you're going to leave? Someone you need a you need company, you need company, yeah. True, but some women, even after four years, if they try to say, Oh, it looks like I want to, they'll be like, your husband that just died. Yeah, no wonder you know they said you are the one that killed him. Yeah, this is like four or five years after. They're wondering she's never allowed to move on. Exactly. Yeah, in fact, in some places, and this is true culturally, they don't even let the woman grieve. They begin to say, Maybe one of our brothers can take her as wife. That part. So they shared my dad, has like two or three that have been shared to him. Are you serious? From mothers, from siblings, yes, but it is it doesn't have anything to do with them. But the the the bottom line is he then says, Let's just keep them in the family because of the children, so she'll bear my name there. In fact, she can still bear the name of the husband, but so that nobody decides to come to say let's take this woman out of this place. So that happens. So culture also plays a major role in helping you either degrieve or add to it, or add to it, you know. Then you have the issue of information. If you have information of the inevitable inevitable end of someone because of a particular illness, you already know. So the information helps you to say, okay, this was expected. All right, then you have friends, your friends can also help you cope in a way that I have a friend who who passed, and then they set up, you know, they set up this WhatsApp groups to help to these guys, this Tobine, the madman, is one of our guys. We had raised about like 32 million for the guy. Oh my god. So ask to you. No, considering how much we have raised in this WhatsApp group, I will keep my power. So I was like, I said, What he said, have you been to that group? And I went, and I saw because I just made my donation and I didn't check. So I then went and I was not looking at some people were donating 10 million, some people were donating 20, some people were donating 15. I said, maybe about 100, yes, about 100 million. So and I told him, I said, Ah, true. Then another coping mechanism that happens most times is like when my mom died. Sorry, this is very funny because something not so similar.

SPEAKER_04

I've also been one of those groups. Where someone's parent passed, and my friends in Abuja pictures are not results, and you know, money that was raised was crazy, and someone started telling me I was like very upset because his own parents died a long time ago. And no, but that much was buying money at the time. Yeah, we made a lot we don't play before. So we're going to renew it was too funny. No, no, that's it.

SPEAKER_01

So now coming to how men cope, yes. When my mom passed, everybody was you know, so they come to my dad. My dad is a when you say um an old man, he read philosophy in the 70s and then read classics and so got his PhD at the age of 75. Because he said anytime he's arguing with somebody, but he says you don't know, he's like, eh, let me get to the peak of this knowledge. So when you like if I'm arguing with my dad, and I say, Do you have a PhD? I say no. So keep your arguments to your level. Wow, listen to me. So when when they tell my dad, oh sorry about your mom. I must get to my when they said they were not there for this. They say, Ah, sorry about your husband, or so and your wife, or my dad will be like, ah, see to be she's past now. You know, then he said, if we knew this was going to happen, would have just changed her to Muslim, so bury her immediately. So my dad's scoping mechanism is humor.

SPEAKER_04

So that's where it comes.

SPEAKER_01

Sometimes then one day uh the king called and said, Ah chief, how are you managing? Because we live in the palace, so he said, How are you managing? Because my king won't see him in that state. And my dad says, It's okay. Many people are coming to greet me. You know, and you know how we drop money, you drop cola and you support it. And that's it. Many people are coming to I didn't know this was how it was. Now there's more life. You have your family too. And then you have some family and friends that move in immediately, they take off everything. They in fact, like you were saying about your friends, yeah. They move in, and then you have people who then come from the spiritual angle. They try to make you see that. Uh what's that thing? There's a there's a house thing, or they say God, God gives, God takes away, blessing that for religion that helps a lot for the people in that faith. So they don't place any that's why they don't keep the person even longer. You know, if God did not want the person to go, he won't go. So they feel this is God's doing, let it just end there. You have um uh the story of uh people who have gone through those kinds of things to then tell you, for instance, he and I have lost mothers now. So when we see somebody else, motherless, we are being a good thing. You know, so they they see themselves and they'll be like, so when somebody who has a spirit, humor is helping, exactly. When somebody who's lost a mom, yeah, sees you and says, I know how this feels, yeah, right? Yeah, just take it easy, yeah. Grieve when you're uh I went to see my so I'm a member of um, I'm the president of my old boys' association. So the past president just lost her husband.

SPEAKER_07

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01

So when I got there, everybody was like in bad mood. So, first, she's a lecturer at um the mountain of fire university down towards um that road. That road, all those camps, yeah. And so when and she has an apartment there. So when they told me that her husband had passed, of course, I started driving that way, not knowing she lives in Ejibo. So it was when I nearly got there, and I said, Okay, let's have him send me the flat number. They now told me Ijibo. So I rerouted my map, and he said two hours too because of the traffic on that road. So when I got there, and I said, You know, say I find you go not in a fire. So we're now laughing about it. So from there, we started laughing and joking about it, and everybody they said it was the first time that she actually smiled, you know, and I told her, I said, for the sake of your children, you have to be strong, you have to take on the role of a man. You know the way they tell us a man is the one that can handle this and that, you have to be that for the children. So that's not healthy. Sorry to completely conversation. No, no, no, it's not you know, we were brought up like that. Yeah, but it's you know, do you okay? When we're growing up, a girl will hit you, so don't cry, and you say, Don't cry, a man. My dad told me one then, one girl, one in for room. What's one info in book whether a child that a girl that I look for something? Something like that, yeah, punched me. And this girl, I think it's the appointment the girl was strong, man. So she hit me and I ran to where my dad was here and his backband where they were polishing his shoes. And I said, What happened here? Another man beat you. I said, No. I said, That's one info. My dad said, One influence. That girl said, When a girl hits you and it paints you and you feel the pain, don't cry where she is. Go go somewhere where you're alone, mourn or come out strong. Don't take it in. So even when my sisters hit me, I'll just be like, my dad said, I've never seen my dad cry. Never. So one time there was a case they were they had in court of uh some title thing to some huge land, and then the lawyer that was representing them deported instead of representing them, went and sold out to the other lawyers, and so they kept taking adjournments, adjournments, adjournment until one of the lawyers, younger lawyers in the chambers confessed to my dad that this is what really happened. And then my dad said, Let's get another. So they got another lawyer and won the case. So my dad was saying the trust he had in that man was so strong that because I was asking you you won the case. So he said, No, that they did 10 years of giving this man money and thinking he was doing you a favor and helping you win that case, and they just they just kept getting adjournment and getting adjournment because they thought maybe all the family members that knew about the land would pass, and then they can then win the case that it hurt him. And I said, I've never seen my dad cry, and then he shed a tear. And so for me, the strength that my dad had all through that time, instead of me to feel, oh, this is a woman, I felt this is a man that had held it all together until one thing broke him.

SPEAKER_04

How do you feel about that concept? You know, and I this thing you mentioned, I remember the first time I also saw my dad cry was when his dad died. Um, I was 12. And he tried to hide when my grandfather died, and throughout the whole thing, from hearing the news to I think it's about a month and a half before the film. He kept it all together. She was just, you know, the moment, of course, when he was not being put in the ground. I saw his he started with the tear dropping and then the and then he actually knocked me. Then grieved. I was flawed, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so um, so the the context for me is that uh we've lost people over the years. Um, you know, we had a mutual friend that died. In fact, Tosen Bockner is another as well, yeah. Mutual friend that died. Um I only had one surviving grandparent, and she died when I was quite young as well. So those things have happened over the years. The one that I think I also want to bring to the conversation, and it's one that people may maybe don't traditionally see as it as a loss or a time to grieve, is um this issue of miscarriages, which I know that more people have them than talk about them. Um, but it's something that couples have dealt with, that that we've dealt with, that you know, uh that everybody can relate to. I think most people either who are married either have had some or you know somebody that has. And I think miscarriages are interesting because one people don't really talk about them. It's the kind of thing that you traditionally just you and your wife just hold it together. Um but it's it's almost like the funeral that the world doesn't see. Because even though the relationship is very short in in terms of how long, you know, obviously the child maybe didn't make it all the way or or whatever, you you, you know, it's it's like an answered prayer. It's like, especially for those of us who went a couple of years before you finally had that child, you know, you think that the testimony's here and that God has done it, and you are uh you're all in on it, and you're, you know, if you're as a man, you're pampering your wife and making sure everything is fine. And then it gets to the moment where the pregnancy doesn't make it, or that you know, the the child dies at some point in that journey, or for people who have lost a child that's very young, it ends up being this thing, especially in the case cases of miscarriage, it's the funeral that the world never saw, that your heart has to be a good thing. It's a very silent group. It's a silent private and a private one. And in our experiences, because we've had more than one, uh, and thank God we have two amazing children now. So thank God for what he's he's done, and we're grateful. But those moments have been very difficult in our marriage, especially from the standpoint that people tend to grieve differently. Um, and I remember one of those instances we both broke down and we cried together. But more often than not, what breaks me is my care for my wife. And so it's like I'm there's there's no, I can't, this is a situation that I can't fix. You know, you know, as a man, you want to solve the problem. So when in fact, in marriage, we had a relationship where it's like it's you you come to a new realization as a husband that there's sometimes your wife doesn't want you to solve a problem, which was which was amazing to me. They just want you to listen or just be there. And I was like, wait, so you want me to just come and not say anything and not because you instinctively you want when they come with something, you want to you want to end it. But in the in the in the in this these kinds of situations, there's nothing you can do as a man to make it better or to make it go away. And seeing the person that you love the most go through that, it like it hurts inside. And so it's like then there's now that pressure where we grieve differently. And and I don't know if you guys identify with this, like in the case of you, maybe you and your siblings or whatever, or you and your friends' groups. If somebody else grieves differently than you, do you then now feel pressure that you're not grieving in a way that's acceptable enough to you personally?

SPEAKER_04

Because you're like, uh-uh. There are there are no acceptance parameter.

SPEAKER_00

There really aren't, but there's there's sometimes there's like a that little pressure to be like, are you did you really feel this the way that I did? You know, and as a man, we tend to chest it.

SPEAKER_04

Not many think I know sorry before you answer that. No, not everybody thinks uh the way you're about to answer this now, because I know I know someone who lost their dad, and life socially looked like it went on for them. And I know people how many times I heard that papa no die. It was almost like they expected the collapse of the person's life, and they were surprised that this person was still sort of moving on. And I remember saying several times, maybe that's how they're coping. Yeah, because if there are schedule shifts, yeah, that's where the breakdown happens. Yeah, but for someone else, it's collapsing, yeah. And someone else sees that collapse as now you personally. Are you the first to lose someone? Sorry to cut you in there, but I was just that was a very interesting point.

SPEAKER_03

It it's quite interesting because we ask people to be strong, and then when they show strength, we ask why they are too strong, yeah, we question it. Yeah, so um, and then that actually now points back to that whole being strong is actually just what people say, yeah, just so that they can say something. Yeah, grieving is different for people, yeah, and I have come to respect it. I'm also understanding from these past few weeks and few months that the older generation actually grieved differently. There's a lot of dark humor. It's actually a thing. I really do not understand it. Well, you know, I had a friend that the whole motherless thing I said right now was one of my older, I don't lose my papa, and you've my mama, you've lost the mama, we are both motherless. Initially, I was like, what? But then I get it, and it's their own way of having to process things, and not and there's nothing bad with it. Outside of humor, even the show of strength is people's way of processing things because we live in a society where you can't show weakness. Did you feel pressure to stay strong through this? Um, in the even if not expressly. To be honest, nobody can pressure me. So um I wouldn't say I felt pressure, I would I would just say there were external pressure. And because of I have a bit of understanding, I would accommodate that. And accommodation is, you know, I to be honest, I'm not actually grieving for anybody, I'm grieving for myself. It's a personal experience. And what I understand from what they are saying is grieve in your private space, grieve in your silent moments, grieve in a space where you can express yourself without having to pretend. And that's what I get from that. And understanding allows you to relate with people differently without having to see it as they all mean good. But I'm I am also understanding that there is an if there's an evolution happening in grieve. Um, a lot of us never saw our fathers cry, and I think that's a little bit of an issue because even the strongest man that walked this earth cried. The shortest Bible in the verse was Jesus wept. And that was it, that was an entire sentence. Full stop. Jesus wept. And there was a reason why that verse was in that Bible space. It was trying to let us know that even if the Son of God can cry, who are we mere mortals? Come on, say it's not religious, but I'm just quoting God and Bible.

SPEAKER_04

I'm not religious, I'm not religious, but if you're not religious, what will happen? No, it's very important.

SPEAKER_00

There's a train of thought that's Christianity is not supposed to be a religion, it's supposed to be a relationship, is it religion?

SPEAKER_03

That's what I've got to read like if you read through the Bible, what you would actually see are flawed men like us having to go through life for the first time. We are all experiencing life for the first time. None of us have been around here. Please, if you've been here before, I beg let me know.

SPEAKER_07

That's another show.

SPEAKER_01

So what the the the issue that I want to go back to is the issue of um miscarriages. You remember when Susaliso's plane crash happened? The woman who had two children, one was 27 and one was 14. You see, the grief of that woman will be stronger than somebody that had a miscarriage.

SPEAKER_00

Of course, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

The one that had a miscarriage didn't even take two steps, three steps. Yeah, but you see the one that breastfed, yeah, nurtured, we say, and then the one that makes it worse is you then get to an age where you can't even have any more.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So the woman is now like 46, 47, and then loses like that. So she didn't save any eggs because she wasn't expecting anything like that to happen. Yeah, and then that happens. Yeah, when that woman is grieving, even the woman that had lost a four-year-old can't tell her take it easy, yeah. Because you can't because me too, I lost a child.

SPEAKER_04

That's a clear case of you can't understand. You can't understand where the person is coming from.

SPEAKER_01

It it's also a case of getting people who have walked that path and leaning and gleaning from their learning and gleaning from their their knowledge, you know, lean on their knowledge and and console yourself with it.

SPEAKER_00

Can I ask you a question? Yep, because I was at the service of song that you okay for Mori. For for Egwam Mori, um, who again was a phenomenal person, both him and his wife, just amazing, amazing people. And I watched you, I actually went home and I told my wife that ah, Egwali is a he's a master. Because the way you held the room, the grief and the humor and the emotion. Without being insensitive, just not being insensitive, but just at the right time you see something and everybody just laugh and just be like, ask this man, you know, and it honestly it was it was a work of art. Like, I don't even know how your mind works. But my question is, how do you how do you how do you do that really? Like, how do you know what to do and what to say?

SPEAKER_04

And and yeah, do you want to do you want to? And to add to that, to layer that question too, because you also from that and what you said earlier, the dark humor, the using humor and all of that, there's also a belief that that actually suppresses the expression of what you're going through. So are you what I was getting? Yeah, are you actually expressing grief by using humor or are you suppressing grief?

SPEAKER_00

And and this is where I want to land with the question. Because I've been very um, my wife and I both really have been very, I don't know what the word is, but we've seen we've seen people like Robin Williams, right? The people who make the whole world laugh.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and there's that theory, go forbid, but is that the thing?

SPEAKER_00

It's never but but yeah, I think you get where I'm going. So like when you when you are under who are depressed. Yeah, when you when you have the responsibility to make everybody feel better, yeah, do you then have moments where you break down plenty? And what does that look like?

SPEAKER_01

But but you know what? The question really is that I also glean from mentors and people who have walked that path before. Do you remember the time when Samuel was sleeping and he had a call? Okay, when he was sleeping, and then they went to other and said, Yeah, did you call me? Yeah, and he says no. And he goes back to sleep. And then it comes again, say, Did you call me? He goes back to sleep. You need to have people who can then say, Next time, this is what's happening. This is what you should say. So you need to have people who have walked that path, who have gone through all of that. And so anytime it's something like that happens. Mori and I have attended a lot of um service of songs. Service of songs. And you know, Mori has a weird sense of humor. With that, he's a bad accent. Sometimes we're there, and then and then Mori goes, all that land this man has now. Holy. And I think we're talking of barrier, yes. You know, and and sometimes we go to so, like when our friend who's past on now, um if you're Zako, you know, Epheriosako, light of light of the room. He's a and in fact, if he comes into any place, he charges up the whole place. As a legal superstar, he's a so when he passed, we went somewhere one time, and and the person made a reference to him and said, like, say Ferry see their live and we hear before they laugh now. So, because some people have gone beyond that, and that's the kind of person Muri was. Remember when somebody came and said, Oh, he never had a grudge, he never held a grudge, and I came back to the microphone. I said, Who never had a grudge?

SPEAKER_04

See, please, if you have any other thing to say, I've actually done that at the service of Sunday as an MC. Yeah, so he was he loved everybody. I'm like, Is a liar? He was nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I said, I you know, I then told the story of how he came to my office because I went to his office and I took chocolate, yeah. Uh fruit number missing, whatever biscuits. I took it. He didn't complain. He came to my office and saw my gate man with a basket of abalum. A balumor is one of my weaknesses. From go to no, I don't know where he came. The person said, and the person has also passed. Okay, he always sent me a basket. This is the only year that I've not received a basket of a balomo in the last 10 years that I know. And so he got there, and the the person just dropped it and he said, You know, they had leaves on top of it. So he opened it, he said, put it in my car. So the guy said, No, they brought it. He said they brought it for my put it in my car. Person that came and robbed me in my office obviously. So my security knew that he was my very good friend. He's the only person who can come to my office and say, Open his office. He said he's not alright. I say, Open the office, open the office, and he'll sit there. And he doesn't sit anywhere, he sits on my own chair. So he put the basket in the car and then we drove off. When he was doing, I said, Uh, has your uh security told you anything? I said, No, and he said I went to see, I came to see, but I didn't see him. But I'm I'm gonna thank you. So I said I called and I said, Mori King, you didn't call me, sir. I am afraid, sir. I said, Afraid of what? He said they brought a bad moon. I said, Good now. Did you give him some? Yes, okay. And it's the sweet one.

SPEAKER_07

That's the person that doesn't hold grudge, not even small grudge.

SPEAKER_01

He carried the whole grudge. Yeah, skip grudge. So you need to you need to you need to know who you are. There's there's certain people like like Tuja Lakwini, that uh former AIG. Okay, Tuja Lakwini will tell you very funny stories at the time that you are down, you know, and lift you up. And so when such a person passes, you are torn between remembering the things the guy has said and how the guy has lived to wonder if the guy were here, like they say, what would Jesus do? So, what would Mori do if he were here? Mori would have done the things that are done, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, um, so when you have the moments where you feel like like and the reason I ask is because it not many people have the unique kind of role and job and career that you have, but most men have some level of responsibility where you have to hold it together for everybody else and make sure everybody else feels better. So, how do you, when you have that moment where it feels overwhelming for you, how do you okay?

SPEAKER_01

So, I I then fall back on what my dad said. Don't let them see your pain, don't let them see your cry. So, you actually grieve, but just yes, yeah, I'll agree with it. I've I've sat down one time and I just thought about how Maury just badges into my office. I say, All right, how now? This is your plan for January 1st. What's happening? I said the sponsors are not coming yet. She said, Okay, well, once the sponsors come, don't forget to give me my money back home. That's the kind of person that is. Sometimes it says, Um, send two tables to this person, send two tables to this person, they'll send you the money later. And you just get lifted. You sold like four tables of five million, and you're like, ah, okay, so we have like six more tables, and so we're we're good. But the person that triggers the sales and all of that, and then the people who now, this is something he then said. He said, The people the person I'm sending this table to has over 20 friends. If they hear that it's coming for January 1st, other people are going to be triggered too, they will ask him, uh, so you are going alone. You must come. So he's that kind of person. So for me, when I when I when I get into that grieving mode, I like I said, I I fall back on what my dad said, don't let them see you, which is the same thing that the show goes on. I think the the bottom line is show goes on. So you have an event that you've been paid for. Uh let me let me I had chicken pox at a very old age. I was nearly 40 when I had chicken pox.

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01

So I had an event that I've been paid for, and I was in the hospital, and my wife says, So we're refunding my book, and you know that as artists, refund is ah, we don't do that yes. You will move your dates instead.

SPEAKER_04

You go with calamite lotion, so the clean money is already deposited for treatment.

SPEAKER_01

They cleaned the calaman lotion up to here, and I walk you know the Senegalese was ready. And so usually not become a super spreader under the Senegalese uh and fantasy land was the was an open space. So I got there. One of the doctors, one of the doctors was a guest. I said, What's this man doing here? He said, Have they disturbed you? I said, No, they haven't. What are you doing here? He called the doctor and said, uh, I didn't remember. He said, No, your wife said he's going for a walk. My clothes were in the car, the hospital gown that you tie at the back, robe that you tie at the back. So we just went on a walk, corridor, downstairs, parts medical center. On uh I just had we got uh got to the car. I changed. My wife drove me to Fantasyland. I was waiting in the car, started the event, basket mouth, and uh thank god for wonderful wives. Yes, so so basket mouth and one other person were there waiting and uh the dawn, the dawn, the comedian, they were waiting as soon as I entered, started the show, they picked up, I did a bit more, and I said, My guys can continue. The guy said, Okay, and I went back, got to, but the stupid doctor had called them to say that I'd left. So for me, really, it is about trying to make sure that nobody sees beyond the facade. The show must go on. You finish and then you um okay. Tell you one thing. My mom was my mom was in was uh in the throes of passing on. So she will call me on the 20th, called me on the 22nd, 23rd, 30th, and we're just talking. She said that this is your show. Just finish January? Yes. When you finish, then you come and see me. And I said, let me come on the 22nd, see you before Christmas. He said, No, just finish your show. When you finish your show, you can come. And by the time I went on stage, they had told me that it looks like it's any time now. So when I went on stage, I was already in that because she passed about like 2 a.m. Oh 2 a.m. 2nd of uh January. You have to be strong for the people who are around you. Of course, we go through a lot of uh pains, we go through a lot of uh depression, especially for comedians. You're depressed because you feel which was what Robin Williams was going through. Yeah, you go through these issues, but you try to make sure people see you differently.

SPEAKER_03

You don't have a lot of pressure, isn't it? Can I add to that? And that's what I've noticed, especially um from this part of the world. I was also gonna ask generationally how different that is. There's a facade that needs to be put up, a facade of strength.

SPEAKER_04

Do you think it needs to be put up? If you have siblings, if you have siblings that you want to, yes, he's disagreeing, that's what I'm asking.

SPEAKER_03

It's very it's it's very subjective, it's subjective because um that train of thought is actually evolving, it's not changing, but it's evolving. Grieve is a personal thing, meaning that crying in public, except it's a moment where you had a trigger, there's really no um advantage to it. If you understand what I'm trying to say, except it's a trigger. So when I hear be strong for others, what I constantly keep understanding is go to your own private confines and be yourself and live and experience that grief in its fullness, there is no need of showing it to anybody because you can trigger somebody. It's just saying don't grieve it. There's no advantage to it. And if you understand that from a very positive lens, it actually just means that even in your grief, you still have a responsibility to encourage people. Your grieving should not allow people to go into depression, it should allow people to see hope. Sure, sure, to see light at the end that oh, although I'm going through this, so there's still hope. There is still light.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I want to wrestle off some data. Sorry, very quickly. Um, it's from a group, the grief therapists that did some survey, but it's mostly UK. With your hundred million. Anyway, and it says 80% of men, 80% of men feel alone in their grief. Feel alone when they're grieving. Deliberately or I guess society. Okay. And it's I guess part of what we're talking about, you don't necessarily have somebody or anyone to be strong for you. So you're sort of alone in your own grieving, like we're saying. So you go into your space or whatever it is. 52% of men admit to hiding their emotions completely from those even close to them. Now, these ones I found very interesting. 41% rely on alcohol or drugs to cope. 24% use very illicit substances, and 30% report that these coping mechanisms actually intensified their grief rather than easing it off. So, I mean, you mentioned depression then Arabi Williams and all of this, and some of these things come up now. So, some people I know someone, for example, who completely left the church after they lost someone because it became a case of God, how did this happen? And it changed their life. You know, there are people who go into who start drinking more because it's like this is a lot, I can't handle this. And so there are sides to these things. Okay, and I'm asking this because okay, this is mentality we're talking about, men disproportionate disproportionately, Jesus. It's fine. Men seem to bear the props of it.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm just trying to, for those watching who might be going through this, now now let's how do you cope? So, change of environment works. Uh, we know that in the case of Ruth, whose husband died, yeah. You know, there are some people, if their husband died today, you need to give their two weeks of not coming to work, all right first, then they'll then use another two weeks of grieving after that. You know, some even take like a month. But this is a woman whose husband died but left with the mother-in-law, yeah. All right, so the relationship you don't have with the woman that's your mother-in-law would also define so that which is why it can't be the same thing with every woman. Sure, so women don't have the kind of relationship, even the mother-in-law says, Come and go to social and so you'll be like, mm-mm. You and I don't have that kind of relationship in the first place. Now, closure also helps. Closure is like if which is why some people say I need autopsy. Let's have an autopsy, let's know what happened to this person. Um, we know the case of Chim Amanda, who it was negligence or so that caused the death of her child, and she continues to press. So the the point I'm making is you you you see somebody like Chim Amanda fighting to get to the bottom of that thing to get closure. But the closure she would then get is not for herself, but for every other person who then gleaned from it and say, Okay, if she dealt with it like this, then I think that's another coping mechanism that I can I can learn, making sure you get to the bottom of it. Uh, in her case, she didn't let it go. She continued to push like I understand the some of them have been fired, some of the doctors. Yeah, suspended, I think. Suspended, but but they they've been they've been made, they've now been made to face the music. Now, when people like that go through such pains, uh, you then find strength in what they went through. Like, like some people will go through a situation and share it with you and say, This is how I got through it. I got back to a point that I'm like, why did I do that? Why was I in that situation? Why why didn't I deal with this better? Because uh, in the case of um in the case of um a man who okay, you know, some men tell this, some men tell their wife to write it in their will. If I pass because he has seen somebody's wife treated badly, her head her hair shaved off and then made to wear black cloth for about like three, four, five months. He wrote it in his will, a testament. He wrote a testament. If I pass, my wife should not be made to go through this.

SPEAKER_00

Wow, so it's crazy that that's even has to be written down.

SPEAKER_01

Oh no, no, because no, that's women bear the grunt of this. Don't forget that it's some women that made this happen now. Some women are the ones that will tell the woman to bring your head, want to shave it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, super sad.

SPEAKER_01

That is so it is it is that you then learn from all those and say, I won't let this happen. Like tribal marks is people who then grew and got better information and got better knowledge that says we don't need to mark you to know your channel. I don't know, no, no, you're not marking, you're not marking my child. We can just teach, you know. Uh and there's no direction and then uh female circumcision, you know, people feeling female circumstitution, no, it's not happening.

SPEAKER_04

None of my children there's even a whole traditional, you know, where they used to bathe the dead body, and then the woman would drink the body. To prove that you didn't kill her, what to prove that you didn't kill him.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, but you heard of the ones that they used to kill twins, yes. Oh, yeah, yeah. I heard of that.

SPEAKER_04

The women drink the husband's the dead body's water. Did it make men do that? No, no, but you know the thing, the funny thing is that it is the women in the family that held it up for yes that would make because it wouldn't it was there, like a what even the female circumstance you talk about, women caught it the most. They were like, You have to do it. Yeah, that's a whole other conversation. I just wanted to move on to something differently. Um, I was looking at a study um from America's National Library of Medicine, their PubMed Central, and it says Sorry, this you have some sp in there.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, thank you very much. Because I'm looking at Banky differently now.

SPEAKER_07

Okay, sorry, please.

SPEAKER_01

All right, show up for you.

SPEAKER_04

Let's end the show. So it's those men who have experienced major loss, yeah, are 81% more likely to experience mental health problems after treatments than people who have not. So is that this is now I know earlier I was talking about drugs, alcohol. This is now just something shifts and depression, trauma, pt and whatever it is. It gets them thinking differently, and you just sort of fall into this hole, and you because men also are grieving in a way that they can't express, it's sort of you know, facts.

SPEAKER_03

Um, I've seen it happen to a lot of men around within my own community. So I've seen it, I've been there for them. I'm still even being there for them. It's it's a very tough thing, and I that's also one of the reasons why I think it's not good for a man to be alone. Shout out to my wife, she's been one of the strongest anchor trials. Yeah, she allows me to express my vulnerability. When I'm home, I know I'm home. Yeah, there are no battles, there are no pretends, I am naked and unashamed. And she allows me to go through that. But I remember years back when there was no wife, when I was alone. I think that was the first time I had to experience grief, even though it was a third-party grief. But these people were very close to me. They played a very major um role in how my life was shaped. And this was when I was in Manchester. And you know, it's so interesting because grief also has siblings, depression. Yeah. And a lot of men don't actually know when they are depressed. So I remember that period, I was strong, I was doing the whole thing, I'm going to hold my tears back in, I can't show myself in public, blah, blah, blah. And I went back to my confine alone. I was living alone, I had a great job, I was doing well. And in that very low moment, I remember the morning I picked up my phone, I spoke to a few people, I was encouraging them, even my dad, you know. We had wonderful conversations, and that's the that's the crazy thing about this facade is that the most people who share joy and happiness usually always deal with the deepest pain. And that pain is always masked with this whole masculinity. And I'm happy this conversation is happening because there's an evolution happening. A lot of men are understanding that you don't have to bear this alone. And I remember that morning I encouraged everyone, I was my bubbly self. I even had a post on Facebook. One of the reasons why I even left Facebook, you know, and then within the evening, within the afternoon, evening, I just started feeling a certain energy. I wasn't sure what this was. My now self now understands that that is depression, whatever category that is, but that was very deep depression because I lost two people like within this very short time frame. One was a very close friend, and one was a mentor I looked up to. And it's so crazy because she was like, Hey Sam, after church, can we see like on Wednesday? And that's one of the reasons why I always leave in the moment because I was like, Yeah, we're going to see. But then, you know, life, walk, hustle. I got into that whole space, time passed, yeah, and she passed. And I remember that the people came around, I was doing the whole strong thing, a burial, blah, blah, blah. And when they left, I went into so deep of a depression that I actually not just considered taking my life, I actually went a little bit step forward towards it. I remember it was my co-founder. Um, we were building, you know, this tech company together. He was one that actually came through the house, saw me because he just bought a new car and was like, What? You know, took me to the hospital. And that was the my first foray with depression. Like, I mean very deep depression.

SPEAKER_00

So it got so bad that you actually attempted suicide.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, I did. And I remember I actually when I was in the hospital and I posted that picture on Facebook, and then a few people called me, like family members. Why are you posting this on Facebook? Um, do you don't want to bring shame to your family? What kind of rubbish is this? Blah blah blah. Remember that day I took down the post, deleted my Facebook accounts, you know, and that was it. And with time, and that's why this part is different because I I'm not finding myself in this same situation. There is community, there is the love I know that God has for me. So I know that even though I'm going through this pain, I am still. Very whole, but I'm telling you this that a lot of men find themselves in this situation, and it and that strength that we talk about oh, be strong for others. Yeah, what about the parts where you have to be vulnerable for yourself? Yeah, are there a safe space where men can be themselves in their home with their spouse, with their friends? Do men allow other men to also be vulnerable with their grieving?

SPEAKER_04

That's a very important question. Do men allow other men? Some of us have good friends, but some of us also have friends around our wow. You know, we are quick to unconsciously, we call it yabbeing or uh we are bounting, but the thing they do, you will go drink is usually the reflex, and that happens most times.

SPEAKER_01

That happens most times when you have breakups in relationships. Ah, you can't you can't have you can't have a breakup. Your director is laughing, he knows why he's laughing when when you talk about him yet. When a woman breaks up with a guy and if our friends and our friends know that she was into the guy a lot, they console her, they don't say move on, they just say let's take a break. Take a break, you know. But most guys will be like there are many fishes, there are many fish. You will feel it, you feel like you're going to die. Uh-uh. They'll be like, uh I'm sure if you see something so now start a bad narrative if you had three girls now.

SPEAKER_04

You forgot you've seen that's very toxic.

SPEAKER_01

Very toxic with it, but I just want to see if you're a polygamous man now, you know what to feel now. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03

But you know what the crazy thing is, grief does not end like in the moment, grief does not end in one year. Yeah, grief does not end in two years. Actually, grief does not end in ten years.

SPEAKER_04

This thing you're saying now, actually leads to what I want to do now before we wrap up. I just want to get us to get to our leave original moments. We got an email from um a viewer, Chidi. He says, So when I lost my mother, I was the one who everyone leaned on. Um, my uncles kept telling me, Chidi, hold yourself. You are the man of this house, stay strong, you know. And I spent the entire burial coordinating logistics, and I haven't shed a single tear in two years. When you break up, you will know. When it breaks down, two years. This is one I lost his mom. Yeah, but now I find myself snapping at my wife and kids for no reason.

SPEAKER_00

Because it has to be an outlet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Now, to you guys, how do you catch up with grief you were forced to post postpone? I don't know. That's a very deep question. Did you ever have to go back and mourn a loss that happened years ago just to save your own sanity?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think, like she said because the closure was not there.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, like he said, one of the very quick ways to actually go into this is to change your environment. Travel actually did help. When you know, when my wife and I had the miscarriage, we just traveled. Yeah, we went to Rwanda, we just went to somewhere else. Because change of environment will remind you that you are normal and the environment you are in is very abnormal. And the environment most times is staying away from people that are encouraging you not to express your grief, not just because if you're just trying to travel somewhere else. So that's one change of environment actually helps. It's like you know, it's a very huge percentage in recycling yourself. Secondly, also, that is why it is super important that you have a community of friends. I don't mean acquaintances that you call friends, I mean people that know you to your vulnerable states, yeah, people that can give you space to grieve, people that can hold your hands and tell you it is alright. Because you would always have people that would want you to push that aside. You should have people within your inner circle, within your inner cactus where you're allowed to cry, shed the tear, you know, be yourself, and they allow you to go through that process. You must go through that process. You cannot postpone it, you cannot put it to the back burner because there would always be an outlet. And most times the crazy part about is that the people that suffer this rollouts are the people that we love, our spouse, our children. They did not do anything. It's grievances and repressed depression and repressed grief from people that don't even know you well. All they're interested in is the rice they will eat, they will drink that they will drink, they jaye. These people don't really even care about you. And once that whole charade and dancing and ceremony and all that is over, you're left with yourself. When you're alone, who are you with?

SPEAKER_01

When you're alone, who are you? Okay, so the my take on this is um let me first address that one. They said men don't know when they are depressed. I know when I'm broke, I know that you know that's when my depression is.

SPEAKER_04

I don't want to lighten this depression conversation, see, but the one time I know I was there, I always say 22. I can never forget that year in my life. It was cash related. Yes. I couldn't believe it.

SPEAKER_03

Most of us say what's going on in my life. Well, you know, it's very important that a lot of men remove their identities.

SPEAKER_01

Let me tell you that. So there was one time, you know. My my wife, ed of uh the bank, then they supply diesel regularly. Fine, I don't even ask. So you don't even know. Is this just I can own five ACs or so? Then she moved on from the bank to become chairman of an investment destiny, and then they say, Ah, we need diesel. See, I said, since when they said, Ah, we need diesel now. If you ever asked for the price of diesel, so you don't even know. I said, Diesel. Do we use that for what? I said diesel for what? He said, generator. I said, Did this then call it? We've been using it since now since they finish. So when I coughed out the money, I didn't know when I was coming down one day and the ACs were blasting my songs because of everything which makes my sons were playing license. I said, I said, what's wrong with you? You're talking about transfer aggression now. What's wrong with you, people? This time of the day, yeah. What is wrong with you? Of the gender, what's this daylight is not enough? What is wrong with you?

SPEAKER_04

Go outside and play.

SPEAKER_01

I got in the car as I was about starting the car. I just burst out. I was laughing. So I went back. I said, turn the gen on. They were like, who called me? I said, turn the gen on. As I was going, somebody called me. I said that they want me to do an event. I added the money on the DC.

SPEAKER_03

So before you move on from that, that's what you did. That's actually a good thing. You are actually a great factor.

SPEAKER_01

I went back. I transferred the aggression to it's just like government. If government says now we're putting yes, we're putting tariff or social that's okay. They look at the consumers and immaculate. Yeah, you will still buy this bread. You will still buy the bread. So I feel like uh the in a lot of us, change of environment helps, but the bottom line is what is your state of mind? Some people take to jogging, fitness, new friends, reading. Um I took to fitness, yes, you know. Yes, yeah, I have a friend. No, no, I actually do that. I envy this body, I envy this body, but I don't know about you people. Have you gotten home one day and told your wife it's past seven, I'm not eating, and she's like, Where did you eat? You're like, but it's past seven. Um she takes the phone. Bring your gas food. Oh you eat at nine.

SPEAKER_03

I eat at 10 p.m. last night. You're actually eat late most time. What are you eating? And I'm watching you. What are you eating? I'm more protein than you say.

SPEAKER_01

No, no, it's not, it's not. We you get back and then when you don't want to eat, you then hear, I made this food by myself. You then look at the last morsel of a Babylon for the good of the marriage, and that happens really every time. I put I put a caveat once it's past seven, no food in this house. Went for one event at civic center. I didn't like the food. So I got back home to ten. To ten. So I said, Babes, can they make me small party? She said it's past seven. I said, just just small parade. Okay, why did you ask for chicken?

SPEAKER_04

Something why why would you say?

SPEAKER_03

Why are you talking about the secret because pandadium had been softened, but the secret is to eat a muscle of pounded diamond with more soup and more this conversation? Okay, okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you very much. I don't know if you have any final thoughts before we go.

SPEAKER_00

Um, final thoughts. First of all, thank you both for coming. Thank you so so much. It's been such a great conversation. Um, I know that in some cases it's very raw, and so it took an an immeasurable amount of strength for you guys to come here and share with us.

SPEAKER_04

Say it so soon after.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so soon for both of you. Um, from the loss that you recently, WhatsApp group, WhatsApp group. So thank you so much. I think for me, final thoughts, really, grief is like the price that we pay for love. If the love was deep, the grief will be deep. I need to write that down. And we need to, we need to, you know, like we've said all along, we need to find ways as men to healthily allow ourselves to feel what we feel and process it, even if you have to do it, you know, in the privacy of your home or with your wife or whatever, but find a way to let it out. Because if you don't, it will eventually come at an in opportune time and it may end up hurting people that are closest to you. Ultimately, grief is I've learned that grief is like love's last sign. It's it's your heart's way of letting go in the most painless way possible, but you have to allow your heart to feel that. So for me, you know, we've we've touched on it throughout this conversation, but it's faith. So for me, it's my faith in God, uh, it's family and friends, and then it's activity. Because ultimately, when you find yourself in a sunken place, the most important thing you can do is just keep moving, one foot in front of the other. And eventually you realize that that life will go on and you'll be okay. So shout out to everybody out there that's feeling something, but just know that you're not the only person that has felt it. And if they've gone through it and come out on the other side, you will too. So God bless you.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you very much to everyone who's been here. Um, like you said, I really appreciate you guys for being open, honest, and vulnerable. Um, it's one thing that nobody prepares you for, but it's something that we also need to be prepared for in some way. Um, and I don't know that men are less emotional. I think we're still just learning how to express those emotions. Yeah. And like you said, I don't know if there's a generational divide, but we need to start being a little less tough on ourselves. If your way of handling it is expressing privately, expressing, but at least express. Yeah. I think that's the most important thing. And um the one thing I think I'll wrap with is something you said, which I think sort of is a theme so far, is finding your community. Your community could be your family, it could be your friends, it could be one or two people. So shop, it could be anywhere, but find a community that you know helps you through that process. I don't think anybody can go into them like we saw with the with the mail from Chidi. Yeah, holding it two years has gone by now. Now your family is about to scatter because of something you could have had. Tighten your chest. Yeah, so find a community and and let this go. Thank you very much. Yes, mentality is back. And um, as always, please uh let we like to hear from you in our comments, subscribe, share with your husband, your boyfriend, your brother, your nephew, your kids, and the ladies in your life too. Because um, this is a conversation for all of us.

SPEAKER_00

And if you happen to have never vented before about the grief that you're feeling, put it in the comment section and the mentality community, let's be your community.

SPEAKER_04

Let's actually help you through this. Let's pass some cool. Go try and get them the experts now. I'm an expert. I can help.

SPEAKER_00

Cheers, shouldn't we chase with water?

SPEAKER_04

Is it chasing with water is bad luck? Most probably so let's just let's cancel the bad luck.

SPEAKER_02

Let's go. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. But sorry for the SC.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, yeah, so we can take we do usually have SC. Actually, can you zoom in to that? Because that's a this flow chart. You know, you didn't get to half of this flowchart. I know now I just not. This that's another show by itself, but it's actually going to change.