Redefining Success | MENtality with Ebuka, Banky W, Farooq Oreagba & Tobi Bakre

In this episode of MENtality with Ebuka, host Ebuka Obi-Uchendu is joined by co-host Banky W, alongside entrepreneur and cultural figure Farooq Oreagba and actor, media personality and entrepreneur Tobi Bakre, for an honest and reflective conversation on career uncertainty, ambition, identity, and what success truly means for men today.

As career paths become increasingly unpredictable and non-linear, many men find themselves caught between survival, passion, financial responsibility, and societal expectations. The pressure to “figure life out” early, achieve visible success, and constantly provide can leave many silently struggling with anxiety, comparison, disappointment, and self-doubt.

The conversation explores the realities of navigating career uncertainty in a rapidly changing economy, the emotional weight tied to employment and financial stability, and the difficult choices men often face between pursuing passion and choosing security. The episode also examines entrepreneurship versus traditional employment, challenging the glamorisation of hustle culture while highlighting the unseen sacrifices, risks, and emotional toll attached to both paths.

Against the backdrop of economic instability, rising living costs, and shifting definitions of achievement, the discussion unpacks how deeply career status can shape male identity and self-worth. Together, the guests reflect on failure, reinvention, delayed dreams, resilience, and the importance of redefining success beyond job titles, income levels, or public perception.

Ultimately, the episode encourages men to separate their worth from societal timelines, embrace growth at different stages of life, and build lives rooted not only in achievement, but also in purpose, fulfillment, stability, and authenticity.

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MENtality With Ebuka is a production of Knight & Sheriff and EME.

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:00

On today's episode of Mentality with Ebuka, career paths today are far less linear than previous generations experienced. Many men feel trapped between passion, survival, and societal expectations of success. Joined by my co-host Banke W, as well as finance executive and lifestyle influencer Parouk Oreagba, and actor TV host Toby Bakery. This season of mentality with Abuka is brought to you by Schweppes and the Glen Leavett. You came to this uh you're not even influenced by game. Ross, it's more good with the manage.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

You don't want to manage Hollywood. Listen, you cannot define the path that you're going to take. You just gotta go with the flow and make the best of it. Yeah, that's how we roll.

SPEAKER_06 0:50

You guys want drinks, Abby? Yes, please. You're welcome, you're welcome. We're going to have a good time today.

SPEAKER_07 1:06

We are here to talk careers. Indeed. Um, this one is for you. I know this is you know I'm your guy. Yes, I know what you want. You'll be rude not to. Don't worry, your drink is coming. I can't forget you. Of course not. We're here to talk careers. I'm also here. Oh, really? I didn't notice this. We're here to talk careers and how it affects men's egos and all of that. And I think for someone like you, for example, who's gone through so many iterations of life. I'm still going through. I'm still going through. Yeah, you're gonna reinvent yourself at the stage. And it was almost like, what is the career, even if you keep if you're able to evolve that much? And for you, you started off with something and decided to take a full left turn from banking to being this guy, and I still feel like there's more to be in the coming years that we don't even know about. Um, but it's just to put things in perspective for a lot of guys watching, because there's a lot of pressure on men to earn, achieve, provide, and all these things are tied to identity, and identity for some reason is tied to your career. Yeah, who is this person? You know, is that even the right thing to be? The right way to look at life. Should your identity be tied to your career? Thank you. Um, you even, this is like your seventh career pattern, occupation, engineer, artist, actor, politician, politician, pastor, motivational speaker. You know the end. You know, where does it end? So I guess it's just like you know, what is a career, even let me start with you. What is when these people are coming to learn from him? For you know, why do you keep does it is this a conscious thing that you keep almost starting afresh?

SPEAKER_02 3:04

Such an interesting question. If it's a conscious thing, so um for me, it's it's it's I guess I would say it's it's kind of a conscious thing, but it's kind of sensing when I feel like it's time to pivot or at least to shift the goalposts. So the more that you start to achieve, the more you start to say, what else can I do? And for me, that stems from you know, there's a there's a lesson I learned in scripture about the talents. And it says the master gave one five, you know, you know. But the master gave me what drop one of them. Listen, yeah, I am who I am. But you know, the master gave the servants different levels of talents based on each's cap capacity. And the one with five goes out, uses it, you know, sows it, gets five more, and so on and so forth. And then the one who only had one just held on to what he was given. And for me, what that scripture, even though it was referencing money in the original context, it all to me it also meant like, what are the giftings, the things that God has gifted you to be able to do? And if you settle for what you've been given, then that settling is failure. Because while dust settles, people should never. So if God has given me the ability to sing, and all I ever do with my life is sing and go home, then that's failure. But if from singing I can become a record label owner, and from music I can go into movies, and from movies, I can go into business, and from business I can do something for society and leadership and politics, and ultimately my service to God. Like all of these things are me just trying to shift the goalposts because I have this understanding of purpose as like this world that God has created you to influence, and within that, there are multiple callings within that world, but these callings all have seasons, right? So, in certain seasons, some callings will be more prominent than others, but ultimately, all of that is to serve the purpose, this big world of purpose that God has created you for. So for me, it's it's a question of what did God create me to do and how do I serve that purpose through these multiple callings and seasons in my life to make sure that when all is said and done, I want to die empty. Like I don't want to be one of those people like Miles Monroe, I said on a previous show, you know, the richest place on earth is the graveyard because so many people die with things that they they dreamt about, things that they wanted to try, things that and they never did it, and they just took it to the grave. So when that day comes and I and all is said and done, I want to be able to say I did my best to die empty.

SPEAKER_07 5:53

So everything that my faith, my dreams, my when you come to the realization eventually was it's always how you were wired.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

It was honestly, I would say, honestly, it I was wired that way from the get-go. Because even the people, even when I was in entertainment, the people that I looked up to did multiple things. So there are a million rappers, and then there's Jay-Z who went from rapping to business to being an investor, he's in sports, he's in music, he's investing in film, he's investing in skincare, he's doing he did fashion at some point, you know, he did multiple things. So those were the people that even when I was like fully, fully just a music guy, I always had my sight set on that. Until today, like the people that I look up to, even within ministry, like it would surprise you how many like ministers or pastors are full-on businessmen. T D Jakes, you know, is yes, he's a pastor, he's a preacher, but he's a writer, he's a filmmaker, he's he's in real estate, he's in all of these other things. Because if God has given you so much capacity, then you fail if you sleep on it.

SPEAKER_07 7:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

So that was always like my my role, my that's what I looked up to, and that's what I always the whole reason we called the company EME was because we had these conversations from the get-go, and we said we're gonna build an empire, and it will start with music, but we're going to eventually do our best to spread our tentacles and just have influence and have impact and do so much more than just Mac It W come and perform and go home, you know. So that's very interesting to know.

SPEAKER_07 7:30

Because then there's me who had no idea what the hell I wanted to do. Yeah, I only studied law because I was avoiding math. And I said, Okay, what scores can I do that has more levels that I'm learning to do one plus one, and that's how I ended up studying law. Did law, practiced for a few months, realized this money is far before I go practice, practice, hammer, and then I got into TV because honestly, because of money. So I I found this career because I was looking for money. I think that's important because a lot of people in this part of the world go down that route. Almost what can what's the quickest way, yeah, or what's the best way to start this life that I need? Where the money did. Yeah, I might not be happy doing it, but now here it happened. I mean, I fall in love with what I do now, so I guess mine is a different conversation. But I honestly started doing it because everybody was like, Okay, you sound good, you look good, you might work on TV. I said, How much did they pay for there? Oh, it's not bad.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Let's try it, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 8:38

And then I fell in love with it, which brings me to you now. Because you you are in finance, you are doing a lot of things in in the corporate world. Um, but there's also this like this idea now that nine survivors are not hustlers, like you have to start a business, you have to be an entrepreneur to be seen as successful. But there's people who build careers in things. So, why did you choose the part you chose?

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Um, first of all, uh, I like to touch on something Banke mentioned that about being given a particular talent and it being almost illegal not to use it to your full potential. Now, I'm a banker, I've been a banker all my life, I studied civil engineering, I've been a banker. Yes, I'm the CEO of a financial institution, I sit on the boards of financial companies, and then there was this viral moment two years ago when someone took a photograph of me doing what I've been doing for 16, 17 years now, and it changed my life. And it's funny you say that within a few days when I realized that this thing was not about to just disappear, I was on TV. This thing happened on a Tuesday by Saturday, I was on TV, and I was because I had to make I was getting a bit scared. What do I do? I don't want people to think that I am leaving finance, and this brings me to another thing. But then a friend of mine told me your nine to five provides for your survival. Yeah, your side hustle gives you freedom, right? And that was a defining moment for me because what is turned out to some people, what people call my side hustle, is me just being me. Yeah, it's me just being me. Yes, I ride horses, I do this, I'm now in movies. Um that's so interesting. Somebody call me, but somebody somebody called me. I mean, the fashion, you know.

SPEAKER_04 10:46

They told you that like 10 years ago, you'll be doing like five, seven.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Listen, me, movies, not a chance. I mean, I have been controversial. I mean, I I would say I'm probably the only CEO in mainstream corporate Nigeria that wears earrings and has tattoos. That has been a problem from day dot. Right? They judge you, judge me terribly, you know. Um, and uh to a certain extent, it's cost me certain roles. Really? Certain positions, yes, you know. Um but going back to what you you the question you asked, my what they call my side hustle, which for me is just being me, has is given me an extreme amount of freedom, and more importantly, an extreme amount of self-satisfaction. Um, it is a hustle, it is a big, big um issue trying to juggle everything. And um even in my corporate role, it's still, you know, I sit down with boards and they people say to me, uh the the image of uh of a CEO in financial services riding horses and flashing tattoos is not what we want. Guys, what do you want? When you hired me, I had tattoos. When you hired me, I was smoking cigars. Is it just bad ballet? Or the fact that you don't want me to have the freedom that this brings, this role brings to me. And that's really what it is. Let's call a spade a spade. People will hate whether you do well, Banki, I'm sure you know, Ibuka, you know, Toby, you know it. Whether you do well or not, there's still gonna be one group of people out there who are gonna hate you, you know, because we're very good at that. And I think what I'm I'm learning to do is switch off the noise, right? And just do what suits me best. Now, in terms of pressure, the pressure on guys to deliver, especially in an environment like Nigeria, is considerable. The man has to do this, man has to do that. Though you have the there's the social side, ah, if you don't deliver, if you don't buy a new car for Madame every two years, if you don't live in Vegas, you know, Vegas. It's and I think I think the most important thing is, you know, you know, I've had different issues in my life, I've had health issues, yeah, and you know, I've taken all these things. What you see now is as a result of all my experiences. If you take, I I say this on many occasions. Me falling ill was one of the, if I can say I can live another 15, 20 years, I would say categorically, falling ill was one of the best things that ever happened to me because it allowed me to prioritize what's important, what's not important, and realize that there's no there's no time better than now.

SPEAKER_07 13:36

When did you fall ill again? How long ago was this?

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Um, it was I was diagnosed on the 3rd of February 2014.

SPEAKER_07 13:44

Was it post that that the earrings and tattoos happened? No, okay, those were there already.

SPEAKER_00 13:48

Um tattoos and earrings were there before. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 13:51

So how did you start living differently after that?

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Well, first of all, um I just realized the will to live. Um I was very popular, I was a very successful banker. I was driving fast cars when I was in London. I was on the I was a big trader in for investment banks. So I was living the life, you know, the sports cars, I was traveling, I was partying. When the when the trouble started, if I had a million friends, they went down to 100. That was the first realization.

SPEAKER_07 14:22

What for me that was always true though?

SPEAKER_00 14:25

The guys that I was thinking, ah, that's my G is gonna pull off for me. Homie never pulled up. But what also happened was people that I never expected Jack from pulled up and says, Oh boy, I was ho I was with this man in Johannesburg in 2015. Remember?

SPEAKER_06 14:42

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

We bumped into each other first time I met you in 2015. I'm like, dude, this is me. And I was like, well, and we've been friends since happy days.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

So people that I expected to pull up that I thought would my G, we drink every day, we party every day, homies never pulled up. In fact, some of them were surprised that I still came back, you know, not in a six by two box. Um, but my will to live, obviously, I had kids. Um, my youngest son at the time was two years old. So, and I grew up without a father. My father died when I was four, and my mother is still alive, she's 86. And the woman buried her husband. I was pretty determined she wasn't going to bury her son, her only son. So, for a variety of factors, but the will to live was sort of it was harvested then. And not just through then as it as time went on, it was the will to live my way. Because there was an element of bitterness. You know, who are used to tell me what to do? When I was suffering, you are when I was dying, you were no longer there. I came through with the help of certain group of friends, those are the ones that matter. No hatred, you know. But um, I and I've you know gone to live on I'm living my best life, and we can see and hopefully many more, many more years to come. But you know, I'll stop there for now and then we still got time, right?

SPEAKER_06 16:01

So let me go to you now to say because this story is very sweet.

SPEAKER_07 16:05

Very sweet, very sweet. Let me not set you up. But you also have an interesting story. You're a banker, your dad is a banker as well. So you understand this world he's describing, but he has thrived in that world with his stees. You needed your stees to be expressed differently. What made you make that switch so early? Did you know what you were looking for? Because you went on a reality show and then you pivoted to an actor and TV host and all of these things. Why did you want to do make that switch?

SPEAKER_04 16:35

Uh so at the time I was in a bank, I had done five years. Did you sorry before I even go there? Did you start banking because you wanted it because daddy was a bank? That was a low-hanging fruit. Okay. So after NYSC, it was more, it was more like where is the opportunity going to come from? You didn't choose. Yeah, and I did finance in school, so it was more like okay, you can you know be in the bank and you know grow to uh through the ranks. And when I go into training school, it kind of became a bit fun. And I remember going to the treasury office, and I'm like, okay, this is not the regular banking, this is where I want to be, because it was just like more, it had the whole ayage finesse, and I'm like, okay, yeah, okay, I can actually be a banker. So I did five years, but at the between like the third and fifth year, the economy just kind of like dwindled. Um, I we used to trade FX, we used to trade uh, you know, securities, and the market was kind of like at a standstill. Nara was not, yeah. You know, the currency was locked, you know, at a certain range, and I really will come to work every day knowing a program can do everything I'm here in the office to do. Something can be programmed to really pretty much just do everything I come to the office to do. And that was called before. Yeah, even before and I really looked at it, but I had amazing colleagues, uh, my senior colleagues at the time. I was the youngest uh staff, and at the time it was more like guy, you need to go to another financial institution. And I'd done five years. I was like, I was impressive, if I might say so myself. Five years, that means you started what 19? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 18:13

That's really young. Yeah, 19.

SPEAKER_04 18:14

So well done. Okay, go on. So I'd done like five years, and then they my senior colleagues were um you know suggesting maybe you want to go to another uh financial institution, at least get promoted because my bank wasn't really making money at the time, so they were not promoting people. So I was kind of like at a standstill. The only thing that was getting better in life were you know, was my physique, my muscles. You know, gym was the only thing that was moving forward. Yes, everything was just standstill. So it was uh another financial institution, uh institution or masters. So masters felt more like it. I'm like, okay, I was in my CFA already, I had CFA level one, two to go, but I'm like, okay, let me do masters and jackbach. So kind of that. So that was more like the plan, but I wasn't quite sure I wanted to leave. So you're not in Saskatchewan now, so yeah, yeah, yeah. So at the time I'm like, okay, you know what? I always watch Big Brother, and that's true. I feel like they need me on there. I feel like because somehow I've already I've always lived a very expressive life. Um, I'm very sociable. I was in banking, but I had quality friends outside of banking. I was riding a bike, I was an active guy in the gym. So I just had like all these different parts of me that just felt rich as a person. So I'm like, okay, I feel like I'll be interested on that show and it will be fun because I really just wanted to experience it, have the fun, and then from there, which I but then I went to. So your plan was not entertainment. Yeah, it wasn't entertainment. I never for before I go into entertainment, I never saw myself acting, never saw myself doing any of the stuff I remember the conversations we had after. I never, never. So uh after Big Brother, it was now okay. Now for real, what do you want to do? And it's like, okay, yeah, you know, first shock was oh, they called me for an appearance. Typically, I go clubbing, I go to the club, my 130k salary. I will maybe buy the 50,000 dollars, management trainee, sir. Naira, management trainee, your management possibilities of brands, you know. I still have my letter. So then you know, you go to the club, and then I was being paid to uh uh you know come and have fun. Yeah, free drinks, yeah, and 500k. That's like three times you know three months' work. So okay, okay, okay, let's find what to do. So it was also the money thing, like let's find what to do here to at least make all of this work before we figure out what it is you know we're going to do. And somehow along the way, I got into acting. Because then I wasn't quite, I really wasn't sure. Of course, I had role models like Ebouca, and you know, people are just like, okay, you have the same, you know, packaging, you can speak well, you look decent, you know, you're you're good on TV, just you know, follow the steps. But I'm like, you know, I love I love everything, but like let's just see where it goes. Because my motto in life pretty much is whatever God has given you to do, do it very well. Yeah, do it to the best of your ability, and somehow, somehow, it would open the next chapter because that's a cloud myself and I feel a lot of young people find themselves in. Sometimes some people have the 10 years, 20 years plan in mind already, they have it penned down somewhere. But for someone like myself, I've always lived life not really knowing what's next. What's next? But with the kind of household I was brought up in, my dad, my mom is whatever it is you've done or you have to do, do it very well. And it's worked. When I was in the bank, I did it very well and it opened doors. Like I can go to my old bosses right now, submit a business proposal. Anything is still gonna fly. We still have an amazing relationship. When I got into the acting space, it I Treated it like a job. It's a creative space, but I treated it like a job. He asked me to be there at eight. I'm probably there at 7:30. So I'm always on time. I'm down with the work. So in between all of that, I fell in love uh with acting. And people, I just liked seeing myself on TV. Not looking stupid. And then, you know, the love from everybody. And then I'm like, okay, I like how the different processes and different parts and different ideas and you know duties of everybody comes together and it all looks beautiful and people appreciate it. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do this a little more, you know. And then it's more like okay, whatever comes. I'm still even in a space where when they say, oh, actor, more like defining my career as an actor. Like it not, it doesn't, it's not I'm not grounded in it here. Because I still see myself as so many other things. So when someone calls me an actor, I'm like, oh, that's what you see me as. Oh, great. Because I love that I'm an actor, but I don't necessarily see myself as one because there are so many other things I can explore that I haven't yet explored. You know, I paint, I bought one of my paintings, you know, there are other things I would really like to do. Take pictures, photography. So the creative space, just like we creative space, once money starts to enter, it kind of like sucks out the creativity in it. So I'm really in the part in life where now it's acting and I'm going to give it all I've got. Now I'm a father, I've grown and I've learned, okay, you're in acting, but there are other opportunities within this space. You can produce, you can, you know, create stories, you can go into there are different things you want to explore. So I'm really going to double down on it. And hopefully, within that path and that journey, the next phase of life is really going to open up.

SPEAKER_07 23:43

How much, how much, how much of uh role does money still play in the decisions you make?

SPEAKER_04 23:50

Huge, huge, huge. Like, I was a bit, I had more freedom when I was younger. Yeah, I'm still young, but like without the discrimination.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

You know, uh we can we can play twist so uh for me it plays a major factor now because I'm thinking freedom, I'm thinking security for my family.

SPEAKER_04 24:14

So, in all of these things I say, even right now, I have to go into business because now I said when uh uh the things around creativity, when you start putting a lot of money into it, the creativity kind of like you know is sucked out of it for me personally. So now I'm trying to look for other ventures that can create this money, businesses. Like I've always been scared of business because if I after I asked for how many rules and I'll put the money in business, something I'll do. You people do goof for me.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

But you see what he's saying, yeah. Your side hustle gives you freedom. You know, he's just confirmed it. Yeah, you know, he's doing these things because he's he's worried about, you know, he wants to in the security going forward, yeah. You know, and I the other thing you mentioned, which is very important, and I think people like us that sort of multitask is the professionalism. You have to take each one. If I if I start messing around in my corporate job, I can assure you, because the persona everybody has of me is the guy that does is a is a finance guy and is also Stees. You take one of those away, it changes the whole picture. So there's a need, just like you said, you you paint, you do this, there's a need to try and be as professional as possible in all aspects. You know, the need to feel to deliver, you know, but the joy you get from your side hustle, I'm sure, yes, money plays a role, but I'm I'm sure the contentment, the satisfaction you get goes a long way.

SPEAKER_04 25:45

Yes, I totally agree. It's very important. That's what's so somehow my job and my career acting gives me a lot of satisfaction. We're in the same situation, it's it's a common thread. It does, it does. But now I have to look for the things that will give me the money.

SPEAKER_05 26:01

It's not paying the deal. So I didn't know that, though. So they have they conned me. Exactly. I thought I was about to reassess your realities.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

It will give the C's, though. Well, you know, for me it's a new, you know. I never, you know, for me when I was told to come and act, I think it was a shock that um the director. You know, I said, I've never, I said, I don't, I don't know how to do this stuff. I never I said Farouk. I said, is it a cameo? She said, no, you have lines. I said lines. Ah, if I have to ride horse enter, I can do that with the guy. I said, no, you're going to but you know, after after each scene, you know, did I do a cases? Perfect. I had to go do the ADRs last week.

SPEAKER_04 26:48

And you saw the shots, you know, you like it.

SPEAKER_07 26:50

Yeah, if you don't feel what I get from all of this is almost a common thing that you find with a lot of Nigerians now, the need to have more than one thing that you're doing. I saw a quote one time that said something like the bigger risk now is not, how does it go? It's not um having taking risk is not the bigger risk, it's having doing just one thing.

SPEAKER_04 27:19

I I heard something interesting. Uh Waji said in an interview that even in the Garden of Eden, you can see that the stream has different places where the water was going.

SPEAKER_07 27:32

So it's supposed to be one thing anymore. Right. That's exactly where the risk is. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

And if you're blessed to be in a position whereby the extra thing is you being original, you being yourself. I am I'm not gonna go and try and be a doctor, you know, because I because I hear that hospitals they make a lot of money. I'm not now gonna try and go into that business. But if you're privileged, whereby what we call a side hostel or whatever, is actually you just being yourself. I'm sure you were you were a good painter, you're a good artist anyway. It's not as if you went to art school. So it was a talent you had, and just being able to leverage on that, when it's something that is you anyway, it actually makes it a lot easier.

SPEAKER_07 28:19

I want to come to you on that because you are the finance guy, you've you've seen things.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

You also understand but you also understand how money works, yes, right?

SPEAKER_07 28:27

With what you do, and I can't remember the exact percentage now. That's what I've been trying to find because I saw this data before, but I can't remember. I know it basically said a large percentage of small businesses in Nigeria fail in three to five years. It's inevitable. Yeah, whether it's policy, you start something, government just brings out one new and it dies, or lack of planning. Not many people start businesses here with business plans because they don't have access to even know that that should be done. So the average person might look at you guys and think, oh, these guys are privileged. You know, so you have the luxury of being able to do different things uh for whatever reason. The average guy in this country cannot just start things because they want to all quit their job and go try something else. I mean, big brother might not be a privilege, but people audition, not everybody gets in, right? So if you feel like you didn't get that opportunity, what do you where do you go? So I guess my question is how does since we've all concluded that doing more than one thing is important, how does the regular guy approach that conversation without feeling like they are not very I I see where you're coming from.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

I'll tell you this, right? Um, I also I I'm the chairman of another financial institution that um focuses um it's women focused, it's primarily to support women. Okay, and we also we lend our biggest line is we lend money to market women. Guys, you'll be surprised how much money market women make. Finance.

SPEAKER_07 30:03

I've heard I've heard those stories. You'll be able to do that.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

It's a legal you will be whether you are selling pepper, you know. We have we have my my firm has booths, we have offices in Badagray Market, we have in Sangro, we have the turnover.

SPEAKER_07 30:17

Yeah, sorry, my brother, my brother was a banker for many years. He's left banking now, and he ran a lot of branches for his bank. He still says it to today. The best branch ever enjoyed is Dumotar.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_07 30:27

Wow, I'm telling you, you'll be surprised in the biggest promotion of the marketing was because he was branch manager on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

So the point I'm trying to make is this most of these women who are selling at the markets, they're not educated. I will even flip the script. I used to run the trading flow for one of the biggest hedge funds in the world, um, man group. I was on the London Derivatives Exchange back in the day. You see all those guys, you see pictures of Wall Street, those guys buying and selling shares, shouting. 90% of those guys don't have degrees. I've heard that 90% of those guys don't have degrees. They will sell whiskey, they will sell oranges, they will sell mobile phones. It just so happens that they're selling shares. You understand? If you want to go and study, if you went to Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, in the banking sector, they'll put you as an inventment banker, you'll be upstairs. That's why in finance, on the trading side, they said accountants don't make good traders. You are you are a CFA. Accountants are in treasury. Yeah, the guys who are trading on the floor, they take risks, they're taking risks.

SPEAKER_07 31:43

Accountants they like to do. They like to analyze things.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

So the point I'm saying is the guys who it's a skill. Now, what the point I'm trying to make is a lot of these businesses where people go wrong with side hustle is you go and do side hustle because somebody says there's money in uh property. You're not a property guy, you have no passion for property.

SPEAKER_07 32:07

But people say we should also follow where there's money. Bro, don't follow your follow your passion.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

I have been a banker on my study civil engineering, I went into finance, I've been finance all my life. Somebody now says to me, well, you have a passion for this, I want to put you on billboard. That's how I ended up wherever I am now. I didn't go looking for it. It's it's something that whether the money is there or not, it's something that I'm passionate about. And this is where I think a lot of businesses and a lot of startups go wrong. A lot of startups go wrong because the people don't know enough about the business that they're going into. Not because they didn't study or they didn't understand, but because also they don't put the time that is needed to go into it. Why don't they put the time? Because they don't enjoy it. It's like hard work. You don't want to put your money where you don't watch it 24-7. So, in answer to your question, there there is, I'm still a hundred percent supportive of people who have a side hustle because, like I said, it gives you that freedom. But whether you are selling paint or beer or mobile phones, if you're good enough at what you do, you will make a success of it. The other thing you need to do and learn from is don't judge your success by other people's matrices.

SPEAKER_07 33:29

Yeah, that's the hardest part of social media makes it worse. So you are seeing your guys now, people are tearing cars every two days. Dude, people are buying houses. That's the hardest part.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

And and like I said, the lessons I learned from my from when I was ill, I could only sleep. When I fell ill, I had six cars in my driveway. Now I have one. Because last last. Even I my guys, I will not mention them. I gave away a Range Rover to one of my staff. One day he came. What was this? Even the way I was in your life. These are the issues. I had six cars in my driveway. One of my seventh series, somebody wanted to buy my seventh series. Well, he arranged for one of his friends to buy my seventh series. They came to the house and we're now having to move cars to get out. Okay, this range. I said you want it. Well, bro, take it. Weak moment, but till tomorrow I can stand up. You know, he knows who he is. I said, take it. You know, it's the least of my problems now. In case you feel like doing it again, bro.

SPEAKER_05 34:37

I only have a few guys.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

You know your game brother.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

No, but you see, you know, it's when you have when you may have 99 problems, right? The minute you only you have a health problem, yeah, you only have one problem.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

I heard it said once that a healthy person wants a million things. Yeah, a sick person only wants one thing. One thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

So levels change, yeah. And that's why I keep on saying to people, you know, I do a lot of cancer, uh, cancer counseling and stuff. And I I I talk to people and they were like, ah, look at you, you're happy. I said, You don't know my problems. But I every day I wake up in the morning, I swear I'm a winner. I am a winner. Even if I have a problem, by waking up, I have a chance of solving that problem. There are people that went to bed last night that did not wake up this morning. I want to tell me that I'm not a winner. I don't judge myself by other people's, you know. And and once you get into that space, Niger is hard, though, the competition, you know, you want to do this person, like you said, bought one G-Wagon, you want to go and buy your own. And maybe this is where maturity actually plays a role. So, which is why I'll I I I was thank you. I'm privileged to be here, so I can actually just tell people that run your own race, be your own best guy, run your own race. You know, I also ask one question. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Before we get, can you hold the question? Um, because you you asked something about small businesses failing, which I think is an important thing to touch on, yeah, because um there's this debate between being an employee versus being an entrepreneur. And it's important to note that being an entrepreneur is not for everybody, it's a very difficult road running your own organization, running your own business. And you can also be an employee that has, like you've described, you know, side hustles or things on the side that add to the pot. But so there's no shame in being an employee that has a career and building your life that way. That's a very valid way to go.

SPEAKER_07 36:47

But there's almost shaming with that thing now. They must shame with that. They make it look like they are working for perpetuality.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Yes. But there's there's really no shame in the business. There's no shame. But the thing that I wanted to say about small businesses failing, the the the truth is um I think in the US, and it's not just a Nigerian thing, because in the US, I think it's something like 80 or 90 percent of small businesses eventually fail. And the mistake that we make is well, we make one of two mistakes. One, we make the mistake that you described, which is you don't have a passion for something. And because there's money there, you go after it. The other mistake that we make is it's not always a mistake. Sometimes it was. Sometimes it was. But the other mistake that some people make is that you have a passion for something and you go into it, but you don't create a business, you create a job. A job, yes, yes. And in creating a job, you've created a job that you can never fire yourself from. So you have basically created a prison around yourself. And what I mean by that is so I I was um I was chatting with a friend of mine who I think everybody at this table probably knows her, and we were talking about a business that I was involved in at the time, you know, in the food space and all the things, the great things that we're doing, we're expanding restaurants, and she said, Hey, you know, I've always felt like I can go into a business selling like chin chin and you know, you know, kind of small pastries, and that the the she's very passionate about. In fact, she makes it at home for her friends and people love it when they come. So she's always wanted to kind of create something around it. But the challenge that she has is that she can't make a business, well, if she tries to make a business out of it, nobody can make it like her, and so she'll have to be the person there, like doing the pastry making herself for it to work, and she's so busy that she doesn't have the time. And I told her exactly what I'm saying now, which is the danger is if you have to be the person there doing the business, then you're not an entrepreneur, you are an employee, you have created a job for yourself, like the point of being in business is to create a system that produces a certain result, and you want to eventually get to the point where you are working on the business rather than in the business, and that's what a lot of people miss. So when you are starting out, none of us ever have like all the roles, like all the collaborations and things that you need. So you are this uh CEO, Ebuka, CEO, Ebuka, Chief Marketing Officer Ebuka.

SPEAKER_07 39:20

But give me the money, but give me the money's idea.

SPEAKER_02 39:24

But the goal is to be able to put yourself in all of those roles in your vision for the business. But eventually, you want to build the system such that you start to fire yourself from those things so you get to the place where you can work on it rather than inside it. So the business has to get to the point where it's able to run aside from you doing the technical work of it so that you can you can work on vision, you can work on scale, you can work on building it. And that's where people who go into business from passion make the mistake is you end up creating a job, not a business. Absolutely. No, I remember your question.

SPEAKER_04 40:04

Ben, my lot of things. A lot of knowledge going in. That's why I'm like, okay, now I can tap into your wisdom. So um just thinking as a younger, my younger self, or even now, and a lot of other younger people, the idea of a career, a lot of people starting to start out not knowing what they really want to do. That's all I'm one of them.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Yeah, same here. I did civil engineering. Right now, it's I did industrial engineering. There you go.

SPEAKER_04 40:31

You know, right now it's more of we need to make money, we have responsibilities, you need to create a life for yourself and all of that. Will you say having that one career that you're known for, or you double down on, open the doors for others around? Because um, you started with banking, you didn't start with like five or ten things, I can assume. You also started with our assume maybe one or two things. So, we is it something you advise or you advise younger people out there to say, you know what, double down on one, and then you can now spread your tentacles.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Okay, I won't go first. For me, I'll say, like I say again, your nine to five takes care of your survival, and a good nine to five can give you a good survival, yeah, right. But it doesn't create generational wealth. The fact that your dad rose to be the chairman of a bank in Nigeria doesn't mean that his child and one day they can wake up, literally, and tell you you gotta go. And that's one of the problems you see with a lot of the older generation now, our parents, they don't want you know, they don't want to leave because the reality is they don't know anything else. Now, I'll also like to just point out not everybody has the privilege that we have. You know, like I said, if not for the fact that somebody took a picture and I went viral, I'll probably still be a one one trick pony, pure finance, trying to make the most out of it, you know. But I'm I'm at a stage now where some of my colleagues have said, oh, um, I'm going to retire in a few years, we're going to look for some consultancy roles and sit on the board. And I'm like, Mio.

SPEAKER_06 42:16

I just signed a new deal.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

I'm still, you know, that's my that's my passion. So, first of all, it's important we know our limitations in life, in our careers. Because if you don't get me wrong, some people fall on their feet, you know, they land on their feet and they just fly with it. But for the most of us, we have to work hard at what we do. So if you're nine to five, there's nothing wrong with you pursuing your nine to five. Because I'll tell you this. If I was not the CEO of a financial services company, when that picture was taken, right, I would not be here. Because the shock when we read the stories the following day was like, this guy, now MDO, now financial. True. If you were just a if I was just a consultant, and if you didn't have tattoos, but that's the whole point. An MD with earrings and tattoos. Who is this nigga?

SPEAKER_06 43:15

At a cultural event. If you could, if you go back onto my page, the Monday, the Monday after I went, I hit the frame, there was a picture of a woman by my the lift in my company.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

And on it's on Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

I was walking to the lift. I remember that company that I've been walking on. She has seen you every day. She's seen me every day. She did not know me. I remember that particular one. Wait, if you I said, what are you doing? That was really funny.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

I said, What are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 43:44

I said, I've been coming here for how many years. She was recording on Instagram, she was recording, said, I'm somebody. I'm somebody you just See me. You understand? So it's important. You gotta have that base. If you're building a house, you gotta have that firm foundation. Sometimes it is from your nine to five graft that the opportunities arise.

SPEAKER_07 44:13

Yeah, a lot of times.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

You know, the opportunities arise. And also, sometimes your nine to five gives you the skills to be able to assess whether the opportunities that have been presented to you are worth pursuing.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

You understand what I'm saying? So your nine to five, your foundation is Coco, then whatever. And it also gives you the opportunity to say, no, thank you, but no, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Yeah. You know, that's not for me. Wise words. So I this is what I want to say about that. The first thing is you actually said it yourself. Whatever your hands find to do, do it well. Do it with all of your heart. Whatever the door that God has placed in front of you, march through that door and make the most of that opportunity. Yes. It is he that has been faithful in little that will eventually be given much. If you want to be a business owner someday, how are you behaving as an employee, as a worker? Yeah. If you want to own your own home someday, how do you treat the place that you are renting? It's those intangibles, the diligence, the discipline, the commitment, the showing up when it's not sexy. It's just chipping away at life that eventually more doors begin to open for you. Everybody that's sitting around this table, we studied different things. I studied engineering. I studied engineering. You studied what did you study? Finance. Finance. You studied law. None of us have ended up doing what we primarily studied in school. But what happens is school teaches you, and I know not everybody has the chance to go to school, and that's that's that's a very valid challenge that people face. But for the people that do have it, it just teaches you problem solving. It teaches you to be a thinker, it teaches you to evaluate, to present, to package yourself, to solve challenges. That's really all it does. And then life comes at you, and then it's like, which door do I have in front of me that I can at least take this step? And you take that step. And in that taking that step, other doors begin to open. And I think that's the message here. So if it's school that you have, do it. If it's uh your original first job as a whatever role, you're an intern, you're a volunteer somewhere, do it. And show diligence and commitment and discipline and character there. And then things will start to, you will just see that things will start to take shape. Uh uh, all of us here have had different iterations of our journey from where we started in school to what we started off doing to things just kind of taking shape. I remember when you came out of the big brother house, you came to the office and we had a long great conversation. And what I told you was the winner of the show is not the winner of the show. The winner of the show is the person that wins in life. See the winner of Big Brother here. Because it's like, what do you do with the doors that are doors that are placed in front of you? How do you make the most of every day, of every opportunity, and just take it one step at a time, and then you will start to see other opportunities present themselves, you know, and it takes a bit for me, it takes your relationship with God and just sensing when it's time to pivot, when it's time to grow. But it starts from that place of commitment and discipline with whatever it is, whether it's school or your first job making minimum wage, if you are not faithful there, it's even scriptural. God will not trust you with the big things. The day that David was going to kill Goliath, he was still a shepherd boy. He had had a promise, he had been anointed as king, fine, but he was still a shepherd boy. They said, Come, carry the supplies to your brothers in the army. And he was just being diligent. And he said, It's the Bible actually says he left his stuff with the keeper of things and then goes to go and deliver this errand. Some of us will say, Why do you why is it mean that this is a good one? Why are you sending me? Why are you sending me? So you don't know the day that destiny will knock. Even a bone stee's career, right? He's been going to that festival. Yeah, I've known him a long time. He has been going there every year. Yeah. Just you don't know the day that God will say, Okay, let's change them for you. Now let's go. But if you are not found there on that day, you might miss what the opportunity that might change your life.

SPEAKER_04 48:47

Drawing from exactly where you ended that conversation. When do you know it's time to change your career?

SPEAKER_07 48:54

Very, very important question. What do you think? Because why I said it's very important, it's also why it's also because I've always wondered about the conversation we're having earlier about doubling down.

SPEAKER_03 49:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 49:07

You know, when you are good at something, when you're passionate about something, double down, make sure it works. But also when something is done for you, we've seen so many people who have some of the best voices in the world, yeah. Who are not successful at well, you can't you don't want to tell them, you can't tell them they're not talented at this thing, but it's not working.

SPEAKER_04 49:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 49:28

Um, it's not, I don't want to say commercially viable, but it's not just like the path, you're not looking at this is what you were actually so how do you pivot from what you know, yeah, and the world knows is your talent to say this is not for me. Prayer. Yeah, yeah. But if we're being realistic, I know prayer, prayer is, but there are people who don't, who are not religious people who say clarity in whatever ways, and they just when do you tell that person stop? And I say this because so it happened to me. We've had an earlier episode about mental health, and I talked about a phase when I because I never sought proper counsel. I don't know if I was actually depressed or if I was close to depression, but I was sharing that bubble around now. Now money was money released. But it was also a time when I asked myself a lot of questions is this path worth it? This TV saver, now me speak English pass. Yeah, and I started asking myself those questions of is it time to find something else to do? And eventually it worked out for me. But I know I heard a lot of sensible to me at the time talk saying, maybe you should. And I had literal things that I could have just pivoted to. Thankfully, it worked out for me. But there are a lot of people who are in those spaces who will hold on because okay, it worked for Eboka because Eboka stayed and it now happened, but it might not necessarily be their story, which is why this question is very important for me. Because I've had someone come up to me without saying, Oh, you weathered it. Yeah, so I should weather it, but it's not necessarily the answer. Okay, so I don't know where the answer comes from.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Okay, I will share my story with you, and it also relates to this whole thing about being a guy in Niger. Niger people men will know they like to talk. You understand what I mean?

SPEAKER_07 51:28

That's why we call you people here. Men know they like to talk.

SPEAKER_06 51:32

Everybody holds their story.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

I whether it is good, bad, or indifferent, whether there's something that's good for Niger, you just hide. In my case, maybe as a result of my illness, I got a good bunch of people around me. I call them my ride or dyes, I've got them tattooed on my show, on my on my arm there. There's a good bunch of people. I can tell you this. Within 48 hours of me blowing at Ojudioba, I had a meeting with my guys. I won't mention their names, but they are sorry to you come back to the story.

SPEAKER_07 52:05

But you said you had a million guys and they came down to 100 when you had the didn't know those guys come back when you blew. Yes, now they're space.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

That's why you're reading just you keep smiling, but you put them in their compartment.

SPEAKER_06 52:19

They didn't know where they are.

SPEAKER_00 52:20

If they don't know, they better know now. Now they know in their compartment. Uh you know, I put them in their compartment. I put them in my so I was actually with one of them last night.

SPEAKER_06 52:43

Uh one of the returnees.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

No, no, one of my G's. One of my G's. One of my G's, you know, returnees. And and these are guys that they called me and said, Farooq, we need to meet. We met up. This is your thing. Uh, you don't know what's really happening here. We've seen it before. Let me just put it in perspective. These guys own their own private jets, so they're not small boys in Lagos, so these are not, these are um no names, but these are not yeah on full price. Yeah, say, bro, you don't know what's going on here. Come, we know your story. Do you want to go this your new social media thing, or do you want to stick in finance? We had a heart to heart. I was like, social media now, somebody else go blow next week. I don't work out, I've been working all my life for this. So, you really want to go? You want to stay in finance? I said, Yes. They said, because you know finance people are going to come for you. You've always been controversial. You've been they call me the Alan Iverson of Nigerian Finance, the bad boy of finance. I don't dress like them, I don't wear ties, I got my ear, you know. Will you see me after five? You know, I'm that's the kind of person I am. And they we spoke for at length, and they said, Okay, you know what? You need to go on TV. We'll make a plan. That weekend, I was on Arise TV. And if you go back and watch that interview, every five seconds I kept on saying, I like my job, uh, Nigeria Finance, I'm there, you know, I'm lawyer because I was trying to send a message. I have been lucky that I have a group of people around me that keep me ten toes down at all times. And I think if Nigerians, it's difficult, and not everybody is blessed to have that. But the first step, you know, the journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step share your story, talk to people. Because something happened, you want to hide it, pick your people around you, pick good people around you, share. It could be your wife, it could be my your son. I speak to my son's my son has moved back, son of Stees is now in my house, he moved back from London, he's now in my house. You wrote with me at a Judy Ba last year. Now I said, Daddy, uh-uh, this thing is going on. You see how, you know, it's you know, one of those things. I'm like, guy, you talk, we chat, you get hear people's opinions because nobody has all the answers. And I think once you start to learn to share your story and your experiences and seek advice, you the path will become clearer. I tell you this, up until recently, I was still thinking, Manky, you and I still had this chat earlier this morning. Up until recently, I thought, well, I can do both, you know. But the reality is, if you got you, if if the if the situation comes whereby you cannot give 100% to all your various ventures, you got to make a choice, which is what we're talking about this morning. But for me, the biggest thing for me about knowing when to pivot, as you say, was talking to people and being realistic with myself. It's like a heavyweight boxer. You've won everything, you retire, you now want to come back, and then one small boy goes and beats you. You understand what I'm saying? You need to know when enough is enough. Don't be fooled by the fact that uh, you know, you are once a heavyweight champion of the world, da da da. You know when to call it quits. And that is a very, very hard decision to make. And the only people that have the balls to tell you when to call it quits are those that you surround yourself with. That's my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 56:32

Very wise words. I would say this for me, first of all, it's clear that the journey of life and the journey of faith and all of that is filled with uncertainty, right? That's that's really why you need faith, because you don't know a hundred percent for sure where everything is going. For me, it's three things knowledge, people, and prayer. Knowledge meaning wherever you are, there's something that you can be doing to learn, to grow, to pour into your mind, to increase your capacity to so that when you do get a chance to sit around tables, you're bringing more to the table. So even if you are focused on one thing, there's there's growth in that thing, there's more knowledge or more certifications, or more you can expand the world around that thing rather than just saying I'm talented, I can sing, and that's you know, and for some sorry, this different is for different people. Some people, you know, they have a one-track mind, and that's fine. I'm just telling you the way that I think is one gain more knowledge, read a book. We spend so much time on our phones, there's knowledge to be gained on your phones. There are sermons you can watch, there are classes you can take. Half of these things are free or at least heavily subsidized. There, you know, you can go to school online, you can gain a certification. I can't tell you how many times I've shut my world down. I say I'm going to go and do my master's, or I'm going to film school, or I'm going because I'm trying to gain knowledge. The second thing is what he touched on, which is people. Some people say you are the product of the five people you spend the most time around. So who do you spend your time around? That's true. Who do you spend time with? Who, how do you just your network? Like, who are you spending time with? And the greatest thing about the internet and technology today is you know, you can spend time with people that don't even know you. You can look at somebody and say, see, because what we talked about this on another show. Sometimes I go somewhere and I speak, and young people afterwards come to me and say, Ah, I want you to be my mentor, I want you to be my mentor. And I explain to them that the mentor actually picks the mentees. Jesus picked the disciples, uh, David picked Solomon, Elijah picked Elisha. It's it's usually the person who looks around and sees people who are working and adding value and they see something in you and they say, You know what? Come. So, what you want to do is make yourself someone of value. You want to be out there working, gaining, so that when you do meet somebody, so there are people who mentored me and and use the word loosely that never met me. But I watched everything that they ever said, I listened to every message, I watched every speech, I read every book. Because it's not the relationship would be nice, but it's not the relationship that I need, it's the wisdom. So spend time around people. If you have access to them in person, fine. If you don't, this internet has made everything that the person has ever said is nice. So go out if you're a business person that you like, buy his book, read it, watch every time that he's he's given a speech, every time that he's spoken on a panel, just go and dig out, spend time around those people. And if you if you're fortunate to have access to people in person, then spend time around them in person. But the point is gain the knowledge, you know, gain from people. And then the third one for me is prayer. And I'm not, you know, I know I represent the faith perspective on this show a lot. Because it is the reason why we prayer. But the truth of the matter is, see, nothing can tell you like this product is the maker of the product that can tell this product what is made for. How of us we don't use our phone to do the extra capacity, obviously, capability. But the person, if you watch one of these videos, they will say, Ah, do you know you can do this? You can do that. Your picture can look like this. But it's WhatsApp and text message. But the maker of the product can tell you, guy, this is all the things that this product can do. And so for the person who is searching for, is it time to just do that? Start with the person that made you, yeah. That relationship, work on that relationship, and then things will become clearer. Things will become clear, doors will open, you know, things will start to be like, oh, just not then the blessing.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:01

I mean, so for me, it's just three things.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:08

And if you're doing those three things consistently enough, it will have something has to break for you.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:15

Okay, okay, okay. I want to put you get I think it's Toby I want to put on the spot. Okay. Drum roll after shaming you. Bros, are you not tired of putting me on the spot? It never tired. It's been a long time. But I want to shame you first. Okay. Because the United Nations says that only 22% of decision-making positions are held by women in Nigeria's private sector. So that's an indictment, I believe, on the private sector in Nigeria. Um, and I'm sure you know this as facts. You sit on boards, you know how many times you walk in, and no woman or one woman. And everybody says, well, at least most of most countries' economies that have thrived will show you that women are important to a large extent. If they're half your population, you can't keep sidelining them. So that's for you to sit and marinate with and probably tell us why that is. But I wanted to come to him because he works in an industry where it's almost the opposite. Yes. Nollywood, from old Nollywood, the biggest names have always been women. Whether you're talking from Genevieve back in the day or Mozala to today, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:34

Malani Austin Peter.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:39

And two of your biggest films have been with women. Yeah. Jade Oshiberu and Funkia Kindele. Um and I'm asking this because Nigeria, whether we like it or not, has culturally men have an ego around female buses, how woman go to tell me what I go to do. We've had stories on this show even where I think it was Johnny Dr. Johnny Drill who came on one of our shows talking about how he had a male driver who didn't respect his wife but would defer to him if there was a problem. We all have stories like that where so men have this how woman goes, but you have seemed to thrive. And a lot of people probably choose their careers based on uh no one work with woman or whatever it is. How do you how is that so easy for you? Is it because you found yourself in an industry or before we come to you and your posture?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:34

Don't worry. If you don't want to work with a woman, you're not, I don't believe you're ready to grow in life. Yeah, yeah, women are so powerful. Women are so like thank God for women. Uh in my industry particularly, I've worked with women and I've mocked, I've worked more with women. I mean, or you succeeded more with them. I mean, first I don't see gender. For me, I'm a banker, work is work. Like, let's, because I came into the industry with the thirst to get stuff done. Let's get the work done, let's shoot the shots, let's, you know, the creativity. Oh, I want to jump. Okay, how high can you jump? You know, and with that mindset, when I came into the industry, a lot of the women I happen to have worked with happen to be, they they welcomed me and welcomed that mentality with open arms. Yeah, there was no ego. A lot of the directors I've worked with is more of okay, you have an idea. Okay, what's your idea? Okay, this is what I have, let's balance it, let's push it together. I don't see gender, it's more of the results. So it's who is helping us get to the result more. And in our industry, you know, they look they used to look at women like the underdog. Now you see the power of the underdog. Like they've come and they've really taken up space. And not just taking up space with like a slogan, it's with actual stories like competence, numbers to show, efforts. Like you can see the amount of efforts these women actually put into their productions. So for me, now, even when I get like calls for maybe a role or anything, like that's one of the things I look out for. If a Funke should call me, Funke should call me, and she's even saying, okay, I don't have money to pay you, and somebody else is calling me for you know a larger, I'll probably go with Funke because I know we are going to grind.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:21

How much do you make again? How many billions?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:24

How about did you make?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:29

I was only paid my active fees.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:37

So I find women to be a blessing to you know every industry. Wherever there's a woman, you can sense um she didn't get there by chance or by luck. She earned the right to be there. And every step of the way they show you, they show you in terms of how they are trying to work, in terms of decisions they are making, you know, through the whole 360 of the thought process or you know, the whole You know, shebang, you will see that this woman's intentional, and this is why she's here. So I'm very fortunate to have worked with um, you know, amazing women. I'm looking forward to working with you know more amazing women, and our great men there, you know, they're also men are doing the women work, but you know, it's just you know, there's that thing of when they say they've looked at women for you know in the past and said, Oh, they can't, oh, she can't, oh, they can't, as you know, they can't attain to this, and it's more like, and they know they can, so like it's more like it's a season of what just make you guys yes, that's what we can do, and I still love it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:35

All right. Let me tell you this. You've been marinating. No, I said it earlier on. My father died when I was four. I have an older sister, she's two years older than me, she was six. My mother was 30.

unknown 1:06:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:50

When my father died. My mother never remarried. My mother, I was raised by my mother primarily with support from my dad's younger brother. After God, everything I am in my life, I put down to my mother. She's 86 years old. If you follow me, you will know that I don't play with my mother. My mother sacrificed everything. The other thing I wanted to say was I said earlier on, I'm the chairman of a female focused financial institution. Where we support, I didn't say we support men guys, we support market women. Right? I spent my formative years standing in the kitchen up until the age of 18. My mother lived in a boys' quarters in Sulli. She was the marketing director of a multinational, but everything she earned. My sister was head girl at Queen's College, I went to King's College, my mother supported me. Yes. Um, so I know the sacrifices women have made. I've also been with women. I sat my mother was the first derivatives trader in Nigeria. I I earned my stars as a derivatives trader. Wow. My mother was trading derivatives, sugar derivatives for a company called Tatan Lau. Aliku Dangote, Sheikh, uh Rabiu, Samad's father. That's how I know all of them. Because my mother was about to decor. My mother was moving sugar for these guys when I will leave school, I will sit in the office and she's trading. That's why I became a trader, not a banker. Okay. So I have seen, I'm blessed to have seen the sacrifices women have made. And I actually personally think that women are more rational when it comes to making decisions than men, particularly in financial services, because they're coming from a position whereby they're deemed I say this very carefully, irrelevant because of our culture. Women always expectedly so expected to take a secondary position, particularly in the corporate space. You look at, I was at the Nigerian Stock NGX Exchange to celebrate um International Women's Day, Funkia Kindele was there, um First Lady of Imo State was there, um the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, Bianca Ujuku, was there, and a lot of women who have made significant strides in financial services. Because I believe, because of our cultural inclinations, we don't mix business with pleasure. You don't mix business with pleasure, but as a as a male dominated uh society, we always feel that the role of the women, or certain people feel the role of the women, is in the kitchen. I personally believe that a lot of women, women who finally, when you see a woman that has achieved and attained uh C-suite level, executive level in corporate Nigeria, you need to sit down with her and find out what she's been through because I can tell you this she has fought battles that none of us men in this room have fought, and she's overcome. There are many strong women in this country, and they need to be given their props. So let me say you dishame me. I, in my one of my side hustles, I'm the chairman of a company. I'm not gonna mention the name, but it is prime, I said it earlier on before you asked the question, primarily focused on women. I go to markets and I stand in front of market women and I preach the gospel to them because the women in this country have so much power and so much to give for the towards the development of this country. They don't even know it themselves. And sometimes you need to just tell them to their faces that, well, mommy, Auntie, we need you. You don't know what I will back you, I will support you. You know, you're right, the statistics speak for themselves, but it's up to people like us, and the entertainment space has been one area where women have excelled, yeah, they run that show.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:04

But not entertainments, Nollywood, not music, not really.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:07

Okay, maybe not, okay, maybe Nollywood, but I can also tell you this that given the opportunities, if they judged, because like I said, what they have to go through, yeah, they have a tougher job, they have a tougher journey to get to where we are than the male, their male counterparts. Yeah, and you know, I give them their props. A lot of my friends say, ah, your mommy's boy because your mother raised you. I don't care. Because without my mom and God, I would not be where I am, and I gotta give her props. Yeah, but there are many strong women out there, yeah. And when you see a woman, we use funky funky akidele, balay or st. Yes, why I was with recently, you know. You gotta give you gotta give them the project.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:55

No, no, no, no, no, no, you help me now.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:56

Thank you. You gotta give them the profs because these women have a lot to offer, and their journey, if you take the time to listen to their journey, they've had to deal with you know the stereotypes, all kinds of stuff. And um, hopefully, we're beginning to change that narrative. You know, Evoka, hopefully, we change that narrative and we give the women the position that they truly deserve. Can I just say something about this issue?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:23

I think there's also a massive problem when it comes to public service and the leadership of the country.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:29

In terms of women getting into elected positions of power. We would have even been or even appointed. I think we have a massive problem when you see how many House of Repsies have been. I know that they've been appointed, how they've been treated, no names mentioned. Yes, I mean there's that.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:45

Elected is one of the lowest in the world. You know what's so funny?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:48

And it's it's not just at that level of government, it's actually it cascades all the way down. So I was running a campaign and I had these two relatively young people who, you know, they're in their 30s, but they're brilliant. One was a guy and one was a girl. Um uh Aziz Quadri and Taiwo Titoju. And I'd Taiwo specifically had worked with both of them in different capacities over the years, but Taiwo actually, we we did Lecky Food Bank from the COVID time together, and she was so instrumental in all of us coming together and doing that amazing thing that we did, that when it was time to run for office, there was no doubt in my mind that I wanted to work with these two people. And I remember, you know, when I appointed them, like basically in charge of the entire campaign. The people in the grassroots and in the different levels of politics were so confused that she was that Taiwo wasn't there just to do like women's affairs, share food, organize the women when they're coming to say. And the men too, in at in some, not everywhere, but in in a if quite a few quarters were confused, and they would want to bypass her to come to me or want to only speak to Aziz. And they would come to men and I'll say, no, go back and talk to Taiwo about this thing. And she did a phenomenal job running the campaign. And and right now she's studying public policy in the UK, and I have high hopes for her, and it's just like we have to get to the place as a society because it's weird and it's hypocritical because we all love our mothers and we love our daughters and we love our sisters, but somehow there's this disconnect between saying, Oh, yeah, I love my mom and I love my daughter, or I love my sister, but then I'm not meant to answer to a woman. Yes, or answer and it's wrong. And it actually took me getting married to realize how bad the problem was, because you know, we'd be out and about, and guys would be like, ah, Mr. W, that's and they would almost not even know that my wife is there. Or you ever pull up to somewhere with a car and they want to help you park your car, and they will now come to the man's side to open the door for you. You and your wife did the same motto. And I'm like, You're a gentleman, open the door for the woman. Do you understand? So it's like there's this challenge that we have as a society, I think, in respecting and honoring the place of women and giving them opportunities to lead. There's actually a bill. I got you. Thanks. And I forgot the exact name of the bill. It's it's an affirmative action bill that's being considered in the legislature right now.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:32

Yeah, we're not trying to have like elective positions for just women.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:35

Do we add elective positions just for women? If that's the only way they're gonna be able to do that, yes, even if it's just for like, let's say, maybe four cycles of elections, to just get women in there to see that they have seats at the table in their own chairs, and they have a voice.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:53

Every president promises it's not even 50, 35 appointments whenever they win elections. Almost, I think only one has ever met it in our national history. Yeah, it's just like which is very I would give you 35%, and then you see the appointments is like 20. Sometimes it's very sad.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:14

This is appointment, but it would do better now. That's very good. That's very sad.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:18

They need to understand that just anything small you put, it's multiplies. Yes, you put something, and next nine months, big fine baby.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:26

Come on, you need to, you know, pluck the seed and let the money.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:38

Who is doing a fantastic job? Um, I had the privilege of having a sit-down with her at the West African Economic Summit in Abuja, and you know, the amount of um, you know, she's she's creating something. The power of the creative industries is crazy. Um, there there was a there were and and hopefully the with the women making strides in the creative industry, we can they can leverage on that. There was a there was an um a report by the Nigerian Council of Arts and Culture, National Council of Arts and Culture. In 2024, when I blew out of Judy Oba, the amount of sponsorship was about 200 million naira. Last year, 2025, it was about 2.5 billion. That's in the create as a result of the creative space. And the council made a mention that they were trying to sort of show the power of the creative industry in Nigeria. Now, I'm hoping and I'm praying, because the women are so strong in the creative space, they can leverage on that to end up getting a seat at the table. Obviously, policy comes into it. Yeah, government, not just appointed positions, but also elective positions. When a woman female candidate speaks in front of, look around you. We don't have a female governor, we have lots of female deputy governors.

SPEAKER_07 1:18:12

We have never had a female governor, almost 70 years old as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:15

We have lots of female deputy governors, yeah. But you will now find out that when the when the current governor have having done eight years with a female deputy, when he's about to move, sometimes you know they reach eight years. But even though when he wants to move and go to the Senate, right? When they move to go to the Senate, instead of saying that the woman who has been your support system for the last eight years is qualified, you go pick a third party. It's about time these women had a seat at the table and they were in charge of the policies, and hopefully we'll see that happening.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:53

I feel we're in the right direction because um the creative space kind of shapes culture.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:58

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:58

So now I mean there's a lot of respect.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:02

Respect because of us, I've got also sorry you guys just also maybe because we are very materialistic in Nigeria, 100%. We like money, everything is about how much. But money's free to people start seeing these figures from women, and then Peter then they're like, okay, it's adjournable.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:18

You know, you watch a movie, and oh, who made it the quality of the story you know if you came here as a food, also have the photo.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:28

This is this word.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:31

Hello, allow me, and also in the storytelling, you can see you know, we are representing women better in the light that they currently like the current the modern day woman being represented well. So people are watching new content, new movies, and understanding that oh, a woman can really be anything, a woman can be your boss, a woman can be your colleague, you know, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:59

So I feel like we're you know in the right trajectory to actually just just to round us up before we conclude. Um, I saw a poll, it's not a Nigerian poster, but I think it's that kind of speaks to what we are saying, okay, which is interesting because not even Nigerian police, but I Axios published this poll from lean in dot org and says 60% of male managers are uncomfortable working with women. I feel like that's something to marinate on. I don't know why that is, but it's I think I wonder if it's a is it a perception thing, is it uh an ego thing?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:38

Personally, um I would say it's an ego thing, um and it stems from in many cases insecurities on the part of the male. Um I have had one of my most supportive bosses in Nigeria was a female when I came. I when I moved back to Nigeria to join the Nigerian Stock Exchange. The the the the DG MDC was a lady called Indio Kirake when you came. If you know her big woman, powerful woman, legend woman, legendary. She she we had a meeting. Um I was abroad, I met her abroad. She said, Farook, da-da-da-da. I've heard about you, you want to come back to and she said, I said, if you do this to this, I'll pull up. I flew to Nigeria, I arrived in Nigeria, and I got my job. I was a senior executive at the Nigerian Stock Exchange. What the point I'm trying to make is I know the battles that she fought. She fought battles, she had my back 24-7. They said all kinds of stories, but she had my back, and to today I respect her so much. My mother, too, obviously. And I think a lot of men have to get over this, you know, it's uh it's uh it's an ego thing, you know. Who am I? And some people say it's linked with culture, you know, the woman is supposed to be in the kitchen. So who are we talking about drivers? You're drive some drivers will not open the doors for a woman. So who are you to now give me uh orders? I have a friend, female friend, whose driver stopped on Third Main Land Bridge because she was telling him that uh these stories are crazy.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:30

You always hear these things.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:32

Oh, she was telling him that you're driving. She didn't he didn't know that the woman knows how to drive. And he stopped her on Third Mainland Bridge and said you start to walk away. And the woman got into the car like a typical woman and drove. The guy reported the following day, hoping when it almost heard that story to come back. I heard that story, and the guy was like, I'm sorry, because you didn't know that way, fired is backside. So a lot of it has to do with accordance. You know, so it's a case of men, as like, who are you? You're a woman to to to to be talking to me, accept that she's qualified. Yes, and that is the big issue we have. We don't want to accept that a woman who to some people should be in the kitchen and just raising children has created herself and upskilled herself to the point where she's in a position to be able to give you advice. And as it's as it's happening in Nigeria, the one where they all, well, I lost in Peters is a lawyer now. You know, you know, everybody has their own, but the women have managed to get into this space and to in in I'm talking about the creative space now. They've now got there and they've turned it into one of their own, and they are making how long, how old is Ebony life? You understand? More came out of nowhere, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's turned it into something you cannot ignore her.

SPEAKER_07 1:23:57

So Imagine losing your career path in life because of woman. I cannot walk with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:03

So you know, people have to judge people on merit and accept that if the person who is about to be your boss is a pygmy or a woman or black, white, red, or brown, accept it because they're there by merit. By merit. And the earlier we did we start to realize that, and accept it, because it's one thing to realize, it's another thing to accept. As long as you accept it and know that rather than throwing shade, accept that. Listen, I've got a lot to learn from these people, the better for us. I've learned it, I'm a better person for it, and I will continue to do so. That's my two cents.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:43

When I was in the bank, also, some of the best bosses I have to work with were women.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:47

There you go.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:48

Viola Sully, Kendi, Waleolon, Mojobi. And you could see over the years they rushed through the ranks. Even when I left the bank, from chief dealer to you know, treasurer, you know, they went all the way. So, and it was all on merits because every day you see them, you know, putting the work. And I'm like, special shout out to women. Now I'm a married man. I see some of the other things women have to deal with biologically, like hormones, yeah, child, children, husband, manage all those kids and still show up. So, like I like I always respected women, but I wasn't familiar with the game. But now I'm inside the game.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:30

Okay. Do you have anything you want to do?

SPEAKER_06 1:25:34

Final thoughts uh today's about okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:25:37

Go on.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:37

Okay, no, okay. Oh, you want to do the list?

SPEAKER_07 1:25:39

Yeah, I thought you had a question. Oh no, no, no, no. Okay, yeah, let's let's just get to this very quickly. It's not even a question, it's uh our live original moments. We had a comment that I saw on Twitter. Um it feels like this is stupid. I would react to it. It's not a question, it's a comment. So maybe you might react to this. So my parents still tell people I'm working on a project because they are ashamed I left my job for uh the creative arts. It's a lot of pressure being the black sheep in a family of professionals. It's just a tweet, a comment. I guess you can relate to it. I can relate to it too.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:13

My dad is my I can't count number one or two fans. Was he always that way with you? Um he knew what you were trying to do. No, no, no, no. Okay, it agrees on him uh from a person or someone like this now. I mean, agree on him, and then also it was also trust. I had to earn his trust because I mean you have to earn it, nobody's gonna give you your trying to live a secure life of banking to go and do what exactly, yeah, you know, what exactly actually now that I'm older, like I totally totally understand his worry and fear. Now you have kids, you're like, ah, and also knowing me personally, I'm sure I like it must have gone through a lot. Like this man wants to go and kill me. But now, you know, over time they've seen, like, okay, you're responsible with it.

SPEAKER_07 1:27:04

And now how did you have that conversation with them to say I'm not doing this back again?

SPEAKER_04 1:27:08

So at the at the time I had gained a bit of financial freedom because I'd worked for yes, I'd worked for a couple of years. You know, at the time I had taken solo trips, I'd moved out of the house. Yeah, told me, you know, if you move out, you're not coming back to this house, you know. And I was surviving, I was doing okay. So at the point where I said, Okay, I want to go for this show, I'd quit my job, I didn't tell him. So it was more like, okay, I'm going, and it's like, uh, okay, but you didn't quit your job, Shah. So, okay, what you just thought it was one of those things that useful exorberance. Like, I thought you are getting older, but you still seem to be this your ways. Go and do as you go back to the office, yeah, and then the rest is history. But interesting. Valid, you know, I feel like you have to earn that trust from anybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:53

Can I add something? Yeah, two weeks ago, I was with my mother, I was fine, people have been going to my mother. And saying, Ah, Farouk, your son, Ujudioba, Ijabu, these are the older generation, man. My mother called me. I went to see her. I see her most weekends. Tell me about this. What do you do at Ujudioba? My mother is an Ijabu manu. She's 86 years old.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:15

So even at that age, she's still worried about what you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:17

She's like, what is in it for you? Focus on your career. And she we had that.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:26

It is in the last two weeks. In 86 and 60, yes. It's in the last two weeks. So whether you're 19, you are seeing your mother's child. That's crazy. My mother was going through what focus on. How they're not going to fetch your walk. Fresh your walk. Hope you're not going to dress a mom. You know, it never ends.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:51

She is like, no. You have to forgot.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:54

I said, what is in it for you? I said, Mom, look at the followers. Blah blah blah. No.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:01

Focus on your that is funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:05

Mom growing up, it's like you have to be a doctor, banker, engineer, accountant, failure. What is that? Yeah, yeah, right your house. Madame, so it's never gonna end. It's it's it's a culture, it's a generational thing. By the time our kids come up, we're already officially.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:29

Do you follow Crack's TV? Do you follow because my brother also does social media stuff? So he's not marketing it. Do you follow Toby Baker?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:38

Is it like your son? Ah, Farouk, Uju Dioba 2026, it's coming up. But deep down though, I was like, eh. So show me two weeks ago. Show me this thing about Uju Dioba. What are you doing there? Then she saw me on a horse. I took the horse off.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:57

Like she's like, eh, it looks nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:00

But that's as much as you're gonna get. Yeah, they're not gonna say, Big up my child. Just focus on your job. You know, you know your MDC.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:15

Is there space on any horse for this year? Listen, man, it's it's it's we're gonna have a meeting at the end of May.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:22

I need to correct my horse picture so I manage you on the NGO.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:27

What the place is a horse picture and the horse looking like it's about to die.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:32

I need to look at you on everybody's complaining about my my profile picture on my WhatsApp. I got a horse up like this, two legs up in the air. I was about full like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:41

I tried, I tried, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:42

I tried.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:44

You did good.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:45

We'll talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:49

Final thoughts from me. You know, this show is it's it's been great having a conversation with you guys about men and careers. I think if I was going to leave on one note, I would say that it's so hard for men not to tie our sense of identity to our jobs, our income, to that kind of materialistic value. But the danger with that is the day that the job disappears, the man will start to disappear too. And so your sense of identity has to have roots that are deeper than the job because the job will change. I mean, we're all you know proofs or or or evidence that constant evolution will it will evolve, it'll change over time. And yes, your career will provide opportunity, it will provide provision or a source of provision for you and your family, but ultimately the goal cannot be just to have a successful career, but the goal has to be to have a meaningful life, absolutely, and then it's deeper than what you do because that will change over time. It's it's who you are, who God created you to be. Can I just add to that? And that's where I would stop. Can I add to that? Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:59

You are what you are, what you're not, you will never be. Focus on what you are. Drop mic once again.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:09

Good night. Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:14

Well, thank you guys for sharing this with us, for being as open and honest as we like it to be. Tobiji. My bros.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:22

It was nice, but really any final thoughts from always.

SPEAKER_07 1:32:30

This is a conversation that I relate to a lot because I was one of those people, like I said, I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. Yeah, and I think it's one of the biggest conversations I have with young men today, whether it's people sending me DMs or people who see me, they're like, oh, I mean I'm a lawyer like you, but I only just studied it because I had to. Now I don't know what to do, or now I want to pivot. People have a lot of those questions and are trying to figure it out. And it's harder in a world today where, and it's not just Nigeria, globally, there's a lot of uncertainty. The job market isn't as good as it was 10, 15, 20 years ago. It's also harder for people to take risks because money not today. Yeah, so if someone is trying to help you start a business, you don't have that much uh leeway to you know play around. Yeah, so people are searching for answers to make the right decisions, and and I think this has helped in some way, you know. I hope so. I hope so. Um we're not we always say we're not here to give all the answers, but this we start a conversation and and help and help move things a little further. But even more importantly, we don't know everything, some people know more than us. So please share your thoughts on the comments. Yes, please. We always get very interesting comments, yes, we do uh on this, and you never know. The answer might be there share it nicely. Be gentle, be don't be like that. Don't be like that. Yeah, better than us. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_06 1:33:53

Cheers, guys.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:54

Cheers, guys. Ah, remember me.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:00

I will take my level and I don't finish the water. That's bad luck. Eh? I'll take my cheers back.

SPEAKER_07 1:34:10

Thank you for this season of mentality with a booker is brought to you by Schweppes and the Glen Lee Vet.