MentalityWithEbuka

Finding Yourself | MENtality with Ebuka, Banky W & Mai Atafo

• Ebuka Obi-Uchendu • Season 2 • Episode 5

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In this episode of MENtality with Ebuka, host Ebuka Obi-Uchendu is joined by co-host Banky Wellington, alongside celebrated and Award-winning fashion entrepreneur and creative visionary Mai Atafo, for an honest and thought-provoking conversation about identity, purpose, and the lifelong journey of finding yourself as a man.

What does it truly mean for a man to find himself in a society that has already decided who he should be?

Across Nigeria and much of Africa, men are often handed a script long before they understand who they are. Be successful. Get married. Provide for your family. Lead. Achieve status. Yet, beneath these expectations are men quietly navigating questions of identity, self-worth, fulfilment, and purpose.

The discussion explores the tension between authenticity and expectation, examining how economic realities and deeply rooted cultural beliefs around being the "provider" and "leader" can significantly shape the psychological wellbeing of young men. The episode challenges the notion that manhood is a destination defined by external milestones and instead presents it as an evolving journey of self-discovery.

Together, the conversation unpacks personal reinvention, the courage to redefine yourself beyond the labels society assigns, and the pursuit of a purpose rooted not in performance, but in alignment with one's values, passions, and convictions. Through Mai Atafo's personal experiences and insights, the episode offers a refreshing perspective on embracing change, navigating transitions, and becoming the man you were created to be rather than the man the world expects.

Because perhaps finding yourself isn't about becoming someone new. It's about having the courage to meet yourself honestly for the very first time.

Connect with the Hosts:

• Ebuka – Instagram, X
• Banky W – Instagram
• Mai Atafo – Instagram
• MENtality Podcast – Instagram

Listen & Subscribe:

• YouTube – Link
• Apple Podcasts – Link
• Spotify – Link


Join the Conversation:

• Use #MENtalityWithEbuka
• Rate & Review the show

MENtality With Ebuka is a production of Knight & Sheriff and EME.

SPEAKER_04

Today's episode of Mentality with Abuka, we're discussing finding yourself as a young Nigerian man. And we're joined in this episode by my co-host, of course, Banky W, an absolutely legendary designer, my Atafa. This season of mentality with Abuka is brought to you by Schweppes and the Glen Leavette. How are you doing? Yeah, I see what you're wearing, and it's probably gonna lead me into our conversation for today. But first of all, let me welcome everyone. You can feel free to do whatever you want to do. I think it was stuck to the floor.

SPEAKER_05

No, no, you're good. Okay, that's that's a lot better.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, of course, as you know, it's mentality with AbuCar. Thanks for joining us. I'm here with my co-host Banky W. Yes, sir. Happy to be here as always.

SPEAKER_03

And we have the legendary the kings when your friends are watching you like this.

SPEAKER_04

You're the one that drops things for people. No, they watch us, but you know him as a taffle. Yeah, um, come on now.

SPEAKER_06

Uh uh.

SPEAKER_04

I'm calling what we call you stick me. Okay, Maya Taffer. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_06

The brand is a taffle. I know.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, yes, indeed. Very well done. Thanks for being here today. And I said I was gonna start with your uh because our topic today is finding yourself. And a lot of what we're gonna be talking about this season are sort of intertwined, right? Um, but I feel like finding yourself is also an important conversation for men today because there's a lot of not knowing what's coming. I think I said this at a planet I was at recently, I probably even on this show last season where I said a third of the jobs that will exist in 10 years don't exist yet.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. Oh interesting.

SPEAKER_04

And even thinking about it, the jobs that exist today didn't exist 10 years ago. Everybody who tells you that they want to be an influencer or YouTube, it wasn't a thing. 10 years is not that long.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

In 10 years, a third of the jobs that will exist don't exist yet. AI is coming to scatter everybody's life. That's a whole other topic. And I talk about finding yourself on your outfit because this is your brand, this is what many will call a rival brand on your shirt, and not many people would understand the idea behind like collaboration and how important something like that might be. How do you get to the point where you are self-confident enough? You find yourself that there's no fear of this is a rival. I'm confident in who I am. I know you you guys are probably friends, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But still, it's competition for the people watching. So I guess when I was looking for a backstory, how did you reshare?

SPEAKER_06

I think I like this presentation for for people watching. Yes, because you know, I I don't see us as competitors, just happen to be in the same industry. And you didn't give him the water now. The water is not enough. And I'm wearing the t-shirt because I like the t-shirt, yes, you know, uh, and we know the name Lisa Folario as a brand carries something. You know, so if I'm wearing a Folari t-shirt, that means I'm I'm a cool guy. Because the cool brand, right? And that's the way I look at it. So I can wear things from any brand that I like, regardless of where the origin or source is from. So if I'm going to wear a Tom Ford suit today, thank you very much. Um, I'll wear a Tom Ford because it's a nicely tailored cup suit. Now, because I do not know him personally, doesn't make it any different for me wanting to wear Ugomoye. Because I think that's where the issue comes that you know the person personally and the competition. Yeah, yeah. If it's good enough, it's good enough, period. That's right, then you engage. So I can engage with any Nigerian brand and I look at it beyond fashion. If it's food, but like I'm gonna go to another Nigerian restaurant. It's it's just a product, and if it's a good enough product that fits your lifestyle, how you want to use it, then you use it, you know. And I and I get what you're saying. It's also a message to a lot of people out there because that's the way we think. I don't even think it's as Africans, but as black people in general, you know, it's almost like you're guarding your territory, you know. There's there was something that LD put on social media a long time ago about we are always in competition. That's why the generator has gone to a better past my neighbor. You know, you're trying to show off the wealth. Yeah, yeah, Ibo men, go and build these big, big houses in the village. You know, it's like you're just trying to show something off. But what if the audience wasn't there? What if the crowd you want to get um what's what comments and opinions from are not there? How would your life be? Will your life be empty? Would it be full? Now that's the big question.

SPEAKER_04

That's the big question. I think that's a question a lot of us need to answer because a lot of what you said, the markers for a lot of people for what it means to be a man, which we've talked about quite a lot on the show, is money, cars, marriage, you know, where have you gotten to in whatever career it is you're building? Those are sort of the markers of this guy is a man. But is that what it means to find yourself? Because there's probably the other conversation around who are you really? Where does contentment come in? When do you stop thinking that chasing those things will fulfill you? And let's be honest because I don't want us to I do not like us sounding very preachy, because the fact is the fact. There's a reason why we're all doing what we're doing. We want to hammer, there's no liar about it. It's true. We all want to live a certain life, we all want to be happy, we want to be comfortable. So those things are important, but also how do you now balance that and tell someone, oh, these things are not that important. You need to find yourself. But if he's looking at you and you're hustling, you know, how do you how does that make sense to the person you are talking about?

SPEAKER_06

There are different contexts to it. So, first of all, it's you know, Nigeria had so that's the problem. If you're somewhere in Europe where you can have a standard of living that is okay without you over hustling, you know, that'll be okay. You don't have that in Nigeria. If you want to have power 24-7, if you have power 24-7 in Nigeria, you are a big boy by every standard in Nigeria. Yes, yeah. You get solar. 24 hours in Nigeria, you are a big boy by because you have to pay for that. Yeah, you do. So even if it's solar, you're going to outlay 40, 50, 60 million to be able to be off-grid, if not even more. Right? If you're buying diesel, I'm seeing the diesel generation, you buy diesel regularly. If it's petrol, so that is money outlay. So you have to hustle. You know? That's why that is like that. If you want to live in a house that's relatively good, it's the same thing. When I lived in England, I lived in a council apartment. They almost have to knock me on my head to realize that, oh, you are living in what is supposed to be less of an apartment. But I was living in a masonet, man. It was nice, it was two bedrooms up, it was a nice, lovely living room downstairs. Yeah, you had no complaints. I was you were content. I was very content. Even got my wall in my bedroom was window to window. So I had the view of Canary Wall from my place in Woolwich. I was all right. I could see the Millennium Dome. So I'm like, you know, this is okay. But people start reading the head that no, you're staying in a cancelled apartment. No, I have to step my game up. So society started telling you what you should do. Society starts to tell you that kind of thing. So I feel like it's something I saw somewhere many, many years ago. And the question is, what makes your soul happy? Not what makes you happy, it's what makes your soul happy. That means that if there's nobody around, there's no interaction at the end, but what will you do by yourself with yourself that you'll be happy and you'll be content? So that if you can figure that thing out and you can live your life like that, no matter what noise is around you, you will cut it out.

SPEAKER_01

So that leads me to something that I read something that I thought was very interesting, and it says the scariest prison in life is not failure, it is success in something that isn't really you. And I think maybe it's not the scariest thing in life, but it's this idea that there are a lot of people who go through life and end up doing something career-wise, business-wise, that maybe they're not really happy with, but they're stuck in the prison of comfort or convenience or just familiarity, and they never really break out of that. So somebody that I've listened to a lot over the years is Miles Monroe, and he always said the richest place in on earth is the graveyard, because there's so many people that die with the dreams that could have changed the world or ideas or whatever, and they just never take that.

SPEAKER_04

The first place in the world is probably the Nigerian graveyard.

SPEAKER_01

Nigerian graveyard, because this place is hard, it's hard. So and and I bring that up because you have such a fascinating um story. Because most of us, when we first originally met my atafu, you were a brand manager. You were what you mind at the time, you were not even my. You know, and we all and we all knew you in that capacity, and then it was like you started kind of doing things on the side, and you were doing the fashion on the side. So we started knowing that oh, this brand manager guy also does this. And as it is with Nigeria, everybody has multiple hustles. So there was a short period of time where it seemed like you had that going on on the side, and then take us. So maybe take us back to that moment and that conversation in your head as a man to be like, like, I don't even know. I don't remember if you were already married then, if you had a kid. So how so take us back to that place to say, I'm going to leave this very well-paying job and the security of my paycheck every few weeks and benefits and all of that, to say no, upon all of this, so now this place I won't go.

SPEAKER_06

I'll to go and be a good thing.

SPEAKER_01

And and in that switch, they were you like making the money right away?

SPEAKER_06

Like, what would take us back to that that I think is interesting because a lot of people ask me that question, and I think there are two sides to it. Okay, you know, when you say you make the decision, people wonder did you make an informed decision? Now, the question is that if you didn't make an informed decision, what would have been the informed decision if you had to make it? Okay, so the decision I made to leave my job and follow wasn't an informed decision. Really? It was a totally emotional decision.

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow, right?

SPEAKER_06

If I had to redo it, I wouldn't have done it the way I did it. And that's what I tell people like someone comes to me and say, like, I like you, they've read my story, they've seen my journey, and I say, Go to fashion school first. And the person goes like, but he didn't go to fashion, so why tell me to do this? But I'm telling you so that you do not make the mistakes that I made, because I went to fashion school five years after I started my brand. I had to go to Italy for a month to go and do that. I know how much I spent trying to achieve that, right? So I'll take it back. When I left my job, I entered the office that day. I didn't know I was resigning. Really? Yep. I resigned right before lunchtime.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_06

Did yoga vex you are annoying me today? But since I was already doing the fashion thing at the point in time, I don't know if I was, I do not know if I was making money or not making money, but I was doing this fashion thing.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_06

And the one thing I always had in the back of my head was like, I want to, I want to try this thing. Yeah. And I kept saying, if all fails and doesn't work out right, I cannot be brand manager tomorrow. I was multi good at my job as being a brand manager. I agree. Because I'm not sure. I almost still brag that he puts money in my pocket. I don't think I don't think there were brand managers as good as I was even till today, what I was doing way back then. And this is no bragging. That's the man who's found himself. No, no bragging. But so I quit and I I it was it was a few things. One was I was on the same level in my four years plus at at um at um four years, no promotion, but when you perform, you get more money. Okay, so when they appraise you, right, you get more money. So I was getting more money, but it was not promotion. But I was okay with that because I went to a totally different segment of marketing. I went to start with innovation marketing, then I went to brand marketing after two years. So I was okay with learning. Okay, right? Okay, and when I decided to leave, was the point where I was saying that you're gonna get a promotion. They've actually printed up a promotion to become a certain role, and they will pull this back, you know. Oh, really? Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_04

So it was the frustration.

SPEAKER_06

I was at the airport with one of the directors, and I said, Congratulations. I'm like, oh, I said, Oh, this, that, that, that, that is, I signed it off. I'm like, I told you, it's not been I said, don't spoil it. It's not been announced. Okay. Because I knew the way they were playing at the point in time. Um, and that didn't happen. Even after one of the directors already congratulated me. And second, I was thinking if I get promoted, I won't be able to do fashion because I'll be so senior that it wouldn't make sense to be having a side hustle whereby your face is always part of that brand. You know, and that's the reason why it was Ohimai and Mai. You know, I see that made a difference. It feels like Superman with the glasses and all of a sudden. She was not the act, but that was the whole Ohimai and Mai. So two people were saying that who is Mai? Who's Ohimai? But Mai was not the fashion design, Ohimai was the guy that worked at the business. So when I looked at those things, I was like, you know what? Let me leave now. Let me try this thing out. I gave myself two years. The one thing that I did was that I managed to save my salary for two years, meaning that if I didn't have to go to work for two years, I was earning the same salary. I had the money in my bank account.

SPEAKER_01

It sounds to me like you made an informed decision.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah. So that part of that part, yes. Because one thing I hate to do is like I pray to God every day that I don't want to do that guy that says, you know, I'm on Instagram and I say, help my with money for medical treatment. You know, yeah. I I keep praying to God that you know, you shouldn't get to that point, right? When I see people I even give, but I just telling God like please don't let it get to that point in my life, you know. So I always tend to manage that part very, very well. Is that still an active fear?

SPEAKER_00

It is your fear you worry about, really.

SPEAKER_06

It is. Bro, I've seen people that are billionaires and go down to zero because of one medical condition. One you know, it's like you can't necessarily call, and again, it's people around you who are advising you to do A and do B, then do Z, then that, that, that, then you then if Nigeria happens to you, Nigeria's one of the only places I know that. I mean, all of the only places that you could be a billionaire today and wake up tomorrow morning, you're just a millionaire, and nothing different happens.

SPEAKER_01

But you know that statement, that's what Nigeria happens to you.

SPEAKER_06

It's I I guess it's but it's painful, but it is really because I work with both you know you wake up one day, then you are buying diesel for one price, then the next day you are buying it at four times the price, you know. So it's the same kind of thing. So I always try to like keep things in the corner and stuff. So that's how I left. So it wasn't quite informed, like the way I would think about it now. So are you saying if if you could have still been working there if you got those promotions?

SPEAKER_04

Most likely. And are you happy you didn't get those promotions now? Or do you miss this?

SPEAKER_06

That's a very interesting question. Is the one the I use one person to check my life if I was still in corporate? Is what my colleague who was in where we shared the same. Okay, right? We're innovation managers together. We started together. Okay, he's the MD of a premium alcoholic beverage company for the company for the whole of the African continent right now. So he did okay, he found himself right where he was in that job. So I always say if I was bad, I'd probably be that guy. That's not a bad look. Wasn't he bad? No, because it could even be more. Yeah, he can be more. So are you sad? There are times that you get to that low. Yeah, as an entrepreneur in this country, things just happen to you. So the entrepreneurship telling you that it's that thing that you come to work one day and you're working with people. Yesterday, I used four resources. Four of us were pursuing bringing out three garments of the dry cleaners, four people, three hours, right? And wasted time to just get clothes out of the dry cleaners. And I said, if you are the MP of Africa, thank you very much. Do you get what I mean? Because the old person is saying this didn't come out on time, the driver is there. I don't know if the driver has it. So it was a back and forth. I and I tried to educate my people that you know what, you should have a sense of urgency in everything you do, even if it's for next year's start. Finishing now, she has place to do something else. So those kind of things always hit me back and say, hey, I hey because in 2010, my budget to manage was 4 billion.

SPEAKER_05

Damn.

SPEAKER_06

In 2010, that was how much more I had more budget than local government chairman in idea. That was the budget like that. And you know, when you work for companies, if you don't finish your budget, it's an issue. You have to explain why you didn't finish the money because that means it gives you the right marketing activities. Yeah, so yeah, so that's the kind of budget I was running, and because I was in the top brand, everybody. So you have a billion. Now it tells you 20 years later. We can't tell you that kind of thing, right? Yeah, but you know what I mean. So it's like you miss things like that. You think of activations and they would happen, you know. Like I was saying, I'm not trying to brag, but I'll brag. You know, I was the first person to do an official song for the superheroes. I was endorsed by the superheroes.

SPEAKER_04

You're marketing on that level.

SPEAKER_06

Yes. I took the idea and I executed it, and it was accepted at the farewell party of the superheroes to the World Cup. You know, I did things like that at that point in time. So I looked like, you know, I've done some major, major things. When I think about those things, I can't do that kind of activation with my brand now. I don't have the money, I don't have the cloud, I don't have all that. So I missed that from a marketing perspective. I also miss the fact that I had the resources to do whatever I wanted to do, you know, which made me happy. Then I did have to deal with a lot of you know things on the lower level. And these are the things that kill you.

SPEAKER_04

I think what you're saying is very interesting because it's it's it kind of goes back to the question you asked and the kind of issues that a lot of young men grapple with. Um, I I got into entertainment or media because I didn't know what I wanted to do. So mine was more, I'm just going with the wind. And then I found myself, I'm like, okay, I guess this is it, and then I fell in love with it. So, unlike you, maybe I don't have what to sort of compare it to if I had done this or what I was doing. I mean, I practiced law for like a couple of months, and I just knew it wasn't for me. So I don't have that sort of nostalgia with it. Um, but when you a lot of people will tell you today, like you talk about ideas dying with you.

SPEAKER_06

There are people who have these ideas, and but they also have to grapple with the reality of being a man, yeah, and the pressures that come with being a man, being a man in Nigeria, you know, and you just have to put that one there.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. What comes with it? I was looking at something, I'm trying to see if I can find it. The three things that sort of dictate um, yeah, the three Ps that sort of dictate how you finding yourself purpose, pressure, and provider identity. So purpose is probably the purpose, pressure, pressure, provider and the provider identity. Now, purpose is probably the most important, right? And is it? I guess it's purpose that leads you to follow your dream. Yeah, this is what I'm here to do. Yeah. Um, I'm I'm working as a brand manager, but I think my calling is to I don't know, work in charity. Yeah, and I really you are you sure you're going to be able to then there's a pressure, which and we I guess pressure in this concept is more pressure from yourself. How are you handling that? You know, what's what's really my calling? You How are you dealing with that before you now get to provide our identity? Where as a man now, okay, priority now sets it. Yeah, you're making money, which is where this conversation is very important now for a lot of young people who are saying, Okay, I think I found myself, and this is what I want to do. But even you as parents now raising kids, yeah, your child comes to you to that and tells you that this is what I want to do. The first instinct is money no day this thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Money no day. I always say this thing about my kids, and everybody laughs. My kids are amazing swimmers, they won medals countlessly at tournaments.

SPEAKER_03

Mamma is like, I don't know anybody who's swimming, but there's money in swimming now. We can get a scholarship, I would think that it's the wrong location. Look at the first people you come back.

SPEAKER_04

Everybody keeps every time I say anybody's microfebs. That's it. They're not even football, you can call three on the day. Tennis, you can go swimming, my dog, are you sure? And it's so expensive, yeah. So these are the things that just like you're grappling with that yeah, what's your passion, what's your calling, what's your purpose, but you also have that okay. I also need to exist, yeah. Which is why for you, I know when you did we're doing both. There are people who end up just doing that for life, yeah. Yeah, they are doing this that's bringing in the money, but then on the side, ask for their little doses of happiness. Okay, uh this is where I go, this is my happy place. Yeah, you know, I go here, I do this, and I don't know if that balance works for a lot of people, yeah. You know, and the worst thing you want to do, like you say, is regret because you left your passion and it died, which a lot of men say, but there are people who also go to their passion and they regret because they did have a happy life, yeah, yes, yes, because they were just hungry.

SPEAKER_06

It's like people who are like even apart from hungry, they were not still fulfilled because they thought that's what it was, and it wasn't just going around the surface.

SPEAKER_01

Such a great point because that's the other side of this conversation that I think sometimes people don't even realize is there.

SPEAKER_06

You brush over.

SPEAKER_01

So I I think I don't know if I've shared this on this platform, but you know, there was a time when um you know, remember this guy, Anthony Bourdain, who was the food network guy, you know, he would travel the world and he would have conversations with people who were restaurants. So, and you know, I've had my time where I was kind of more in the restaurant space. And so when he came to Lagos some years ago, you know, he sat down with me and another friend who was in the hospitality space, and we're you know, we were having conversations on camera and off camera.

SPEAKER_04

I can just rewatch that a few months ago.

SPEAKER_01

In between takes, I literally said to him, I said, Man, sir, you have the greatest job in the world. You just travel and eat and just talk with people. I was like, that's like the drink job, man. You know, like food. That's you know, give me different kinds of food, let me meet interesting people, and that's it. And he created a lot of wealth from this path, which was very unique to him. And then sometime down the line from that, the news hit us that the guy had committed suicide. On another show, we were talking about Robin Williams, who again, somebody that was the light in every room that he walked in. Doing what he loved, or doing what he loved, making a lot of money, making a lot of people happy, definitely had found himself because that's who he was. And yet, again, it it ended in such a purpose wasn't enough. A sad way. So then it starts to be like, okay, is there something that we're missing in this beyond beyond like it's definitely beyond money because if money was the key to happiness, then billionaires would never commit suicide. But we know that they do. So it's it's something around this idea of meaning. Um, it's beyond money, it's beyond pay. But even in meaning, like it's it's I don't know if if what I'm saying is is coming across, but rather than just saying I want to find myself, but it's like I in finding myself, it has to mean something.

SPEAKER_06

You know, and that's that's it's I think there are different levels to this thing, and that thing of people always, and that's why I hate motivational speakers. I'm sorry. People always making it sound like it's easy to say find yourself, find what you love, and blah blah blah blah. It's not like that. Yeah, you know, even I would happily say, you know, I'm doing fashion and I'm happy with it, but it's years later I'm doing that. I realize that my real joy is literally being a creative director in anything at all. I want to be able to bring concept to life to a point where you can't see to the point where you can see, and that's my joy. So if it's me doing an event, I will happily do the event, and when you see the event, like I enjoyed your event. But you see, when I was drawing the lines, I was saying, let's go to a co-hotel, let's do six roles, let's do this, let's do that, let's get the choir, let's get the this, let's get the that, no one saw that. Yeah, and that gave me joy, right? Because of that, I happily am writing a movie because I want to bring it to fruition, and that's what we garment is a concept we bring to fruition. Right now, I would say sometimes I look at it, I can actually stop doing fashion.

SPEAKER_05

Really?

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, I can because the actual joy that I used to get from it before is not like that as much as it used to be, you know. So I can understand people going like, I enjoy doing this thing, but all of a sudden it's like it's not as enjoyable. So, what are you going to do to enjoy or have fun or being happy with your life? And I think those things are different buckets and some things that you don't push to monetize, even if it makes you happy. So I tell people today that if there was Instagram when I went to do fashion, I'll be an influencer. I would not make clothes for people. Interesting.

SPEAKER_07

That's interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

That's interesting. Because when I was I didn't want anybody to look as good as me. I want to be the best dressed person in the room at every single point in time. So imagine me now had the chance to now be showing people that know what I'm the cool guy. Then my challenge is to always be the cooler guy, to go and get the baths, to get the this, and be shooting the content and be posing. Come on, stop it, man. I'll be very happy. Or so I think I'll be. But it wouldn't be fashion. So can I ask you a fashion question? Was the only expression at the point in time? Now you have stylists, you have creative directors, you have all those people that do so.

SPEAKER_01

So, can I ask you a question? Why do you think that you can't do that anymore?

SPEAKER_06

He's gonna so I already found an expression, okay, right? Okay, so I still do that, I still wear clothes and I still take this. But I'm saying I wouldn't have thought of being a fashion designer at all. Okay, it wouldn't be anything that comes to come to my mind. And I also think that what people also confuse is that you try to make your purpose or what you think you want to do, the source of your income, or how you make your living. I think that's also wrong. If you enjoy playing football, it may just you playing football five aside every day and you're happy. It doesn't mean you want to go pro. Yeah, as long as it gives you joy. Yeah, and I realized just around the pandemic period, I realized I loved interior design. I watched an interior design show on TV during lockdown and I loved it. Every season I am watching it. You can see why I flipped my office every year. You do, you actually do. There you go. Yeah, so it's almost an extreme. Every six months, not every year. When I got a house, the way I redesigned the whole house, I brought the kitchen, it was the first thing you see. The living went up to the top floor. I switched the whole thing around. My bedroom is as small as the bed and the bedside cabinet, and the walking closet is bigger. But you know what? I'd pick things from different places, but this is brings me so much joy. People are going, oh no, it's monetized. I'm thinking, no, it's my secret place, it's it's what makes me happy. So if you tell me to come and do it for you, I will happily do it for you, but it shouldn't be something that now think I want to make money off. So someone tells me, I just got the taste right now. I'm like, hey, hey, come, come, come. I'm so excited to do it. But I like the happiness that I get from it. I literally mine my TV reality show. It's called The Block Australia. I watch one episode, and I'm like, let's see the other one for nothing. That's how when I travel overseas, HGTV is the one that shows flipping houses. Okay, that's what my TV is on the whole time. That's just happiness. Not even wear sewing clothes. So you get what I mean? So this is now my sewing clothes, now my my day. So I have those kinds of things. Like my first love is music. I know I can't sing to save my life, but I enjoy those things. We're having a chat conversation. I said, There's a guy I love called Michael Friends. He's 78 years old. Did the concert I travel to Detroit? I signed up the four. It was an out. I was like, this is my life, and I enjoyed it. So I'm waiting for someone called Barbers Tryington to do a show. I'll leave the same thing. I'm like, those are little things. He has 18 CDs. I have 17 of the 18 CDs. Wow. And I played them back CDs. So I'm playing it. I guess I bought a CD player because of that. So in my office, turn off the lights, and I just chill. That's my time. That's not on streaming. I can leave with that. Sorry?

SPEAKER_04

It's not on streaming.

SPEAKER_06

I want to enjoy it the way the way I met him was on CD. So I want to enjoy it in that future. You know, so it that so I always tell people that you don't have to make it your purpose. Do you understand? If you find it, I also I think you should be even very, very coded with it. Make it your secret. What's for you?

SPEAKER_04

What you actually say is very interesting because sorry to cut you up. I I uh I chat GPT.

SPEAKER_01

Is that a headquarters of research? It's not Google anymore.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, but like my wife says, What did Dr. GPT say?

SPEAKER_03

I'm gonna start using that because it's like everything.

SPEAKER_04

I just say let me ask. It's like wow, who does your doctor? Anyway, what she said is very interesting because it says, Who because I asked basically, what does finding yourself mean as a man? And it says, Who are you when nobody's watching? What do you enjoy when nobody's there? Self-awareness, it's what you value, not what you were taught to value. What energizes you versus what drains you, your identity, what do I stand for? Your principles, boundaries, and beliefs. This is what I've been told to be. You change it to this is who I choose to be. It's not quitting everything and starting over, which is very interesting. 100% totally agree. So, so okay, sorry, will you you don't find yourself, you build and refine yourself over there? 100%. I like Dr.

SPEAKER_06

GBT, I think he's saying it. You see? Sorry, just one last one. Why men struggle? I want to hear the reward for finding yourself because I know the reward is not financial.

SPEAKER_04

Why men struggle with finding themselves when you get rewarded for performance, not reflection? So the reward if I don't necessarily enjoy what you're doing, but you're excelling at it, right? And because you keep getting positive validation for it, you feel like, okay, this is where I'm supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01

So the reward in reflection is self-growth.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And sometimes that's not monetized. Sometimes it's it's in character, it's in mindset. And eventually those things have something to do with the success that you experience materially, even so. Um, but I think this idea of purpose, right? And finding your purpose, I think there's there's a way that I've learned to think about it in the sense that purpose is not like purpose is is is almost like a world. It's like this big world that you are meant to tackle, and within that world of purpose, there are multiple callings. Yeah, so purpose is permanent and it's so huge, but callings are multiple. So you are an on-air personality, that's a calling. You're a father, you're a husband, you are into fashion, you are a writer, you are a lawyer. So these are all callings within the world of purpose that Ebuka was created to fulfill. And so this idea, and I think the challenge that people have when looking at the purpose puzzle is that they're trying to find this one thing that fulfills it. That makes everything make sense. And it doesn't really work like that, even scripturally. Like we think about King David, right? And yes, great king, you know, Israel would say he's probably the greatest king in their history, but he was a warrior, he was a soldier, he was a songwriter. I think he was one of the greatest songwriters of all time because of all the psalms that we still use to make songs or pray today. You know, he was a shepherd boy at certain points, you know, he served the kid, he was a prophet. He was all of these callings within the world of purpose that God created him for. So to the point that the Bible actually says that when David had served the purpose of God in his generation, he fell asleep. So it's like when he had served this world of purpose that God had created him for, then you know, then he puts it down. And I think it's so critical to think about it like that, so that you don't put pressure on yourself in any one particular season to say, I have not found that one thing, right? Because that thing will change and it will evolve, and you will evolve, and your priorities will change season by season. And the challenge you'll you'll see is some people, like especially when you have something that's so dominant and public. So if you're in music or filmmaking or maybe fashion or like an athlete, right? It's crazy how an athlete's career is probably the smallest part of their entire life.

SPEAKER_04

Entire life, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's like a three, four, if you are lucky, seven, eight years, yeah. You know, if you're Ronaldo 50. If you are well, okay. There's Ronaldo and LeBron James, and then there's everybody else to do it. But it's that small period where it's like everybody knows your name, you're making obscene amounts of money, then it just ends, and then it ends. And then it's like they some people really struggle with like, so who am I now that I'm not playing football anymore? So it's for me, it's like, how do I think about this as this world that God has created me to go after? And within that, understanding that there are different callings, there are different seasons, and just answering the calling for whatever season that you are in and doing that to the best of your ability. And as you start to feel the goalposts change, or you start to intentionally change the goalposts, you say, okay, yes, you know, I yes, I was a musician and a record label person, but I also feel like I have a calling in filmmaking and I have a calling in business, and I have a calling in leadership, and I have a calling in ministry, and I have it. My first calling is to my family as a husband and a father. So you start your mind expands and your heart expands and your dreams expand, and that's where you will find meaning because in the smallest of activities, in the smallest of seasons, in what may look like a downtime to other people, like when you come home from work and your child just runs into your arms, and you are the most important person in the world to this one little human being. That's purpose, that's fulfilling purpose there. But you can be so stuck in chasing after this one big moment that you miss all of the miracles that happened along the way.

SPEAKER_06

That's that's that's very valid. Um, I almost want to say what is what is that one big thing that came back to you that made you very happy, that wasn't money, wasn't material, and came from a part of you somewhere that you never expected it to happen. And that happened to me recently.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_06

Literally put me to tears. Like I'm ever there's um there's a girl that asked me to be a couple, she's married, actually the godfather to their twin daughters. Oh yeah, so I was in church on Sunday, godfather. She's able, we're not related in any shape, form, or manner. Our parents don't know each other. How did she come into my life? She sent a GM to me to be her mentor, and I said, Go and apply for this competition, it's closing tomorrow. If you win, I'll be your mentor. Because part of the prize was me mentoring whoever I was going to win. And this part of the story I didn't remember. She told it to me years later. So all I remember was her in the competition and she winning the competition. So she won. And coming to my office. Yes. She entered and she won. That's amazing. And she came to intern with me. It was while she was, even after she had intern, it was years later she told a story of how she happened. She told me about the DM, which I had no clue about. So that's where her story started. For me, the story started when she won because I didn't know she was the person I chose to go to flight. Okay. I told many people to apply.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_06

Right? And when she came to me, I remember clearly she was telling me she had she was probably going to stop fashion. She had two things she was thinking: going to do a master's degree or going to meet her boyfriend in Canada. So they all started like that. This fashion thing was crazy. And I said, Can we give you one more shot? Said yes. So sat with her, did a full analysis of her business on an Excel sheet, walked through the whole motion, told her what to stop, what to continue doing, blah, blah, blah. Handed it to her. Say, Work on this thing whilst you're interning. She was going to intern for a month. At three weeks, she said, I want to go and give this thing a shot. To use this Excel sheet, eight shot. And she did. And it came from change your brand name, do blah, blah, blah, blah. Needless to say, she's one of the biggest women's wear designers for suits in this country right now, by the name of Mimi Castle.

SPEAKER_05

Okay.

SPEAKER_06

Right?

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_06

And the boyfriend she was going to meet is now her husband who works with her. That's amazing. He's taking charge of all the digital things. And these guys have rode with me like I'm doing a fashion show, they're backstage parking chairs and tables. Do you get what I mean? Yeah. Like that service they still give to me. But I look like, okay, I mentored you. We're not cool. Do you understand? You really don't have to be doing this. You know, when she's opening that store, and there she has to make a big show. She's calling me, boss, I want to do blah blah blah. No, don't do it like that, do it like that, that I got to the point where we are right now. And she sends me a message and says, I want you to be the godfather to my daughters, not just figurative. I want you to actually guide them. I want you to protect them. I want you to hold their hands and make them be like exemplary to the society. And that thing just made me feel like, yeah. All this for me. This is why we do this thing. Do you get what I mean? Yeah. If someone said that, and the the fulfillment I got, the joy I got, it's probably I want to probably have that joy every time I look at those girls.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

Do you get what I mean? That's beyond anything else. So I was starting to say, so I do something called fashion conversations where I mentor people, it's a one-day session. I just really ask questions, I just talk to them, answer their questions. That's what I do. I answer your questions. I don't necessarily teach you from what I'm like if you ask that answer and authentic answers, not from books of my experience. Sure. But I don't have the answer. I try to have the answer. Last one we did was two Sundays ago. It was seven hours. And seven hours, these guys were still seated because it was authentic. And I've done this, I've probably done like 30 of it since I've been very powerful. And why do I do this thing? It's because I know how I got into fashion. I didn't go to fashion school, I'll come out something and it will bang, it will bang, it will bang, it will bang. Then even goes to something I am I said to me many years ago when I went to actually do fashion and I was Diddy Darling, and it was like, my when you make heaven, because I want you to make heaven. If God asks you what did you do on earth, you said you were the best brand manager ever, best marketing director ever, blah, blah, blah. He'll ask you, What did you do with gifts I gave you?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

And I'll be like, hmm. And I said, dude, go for it. That was one of the things that actually pushed me to go for it, you know, at the end of the day. So when I started getting success with fashion, I'll tell myself, you didn't learn, you didn't train, you know, you didn't do all these things. How come you're where you are? And I said I have to now give back to those that didn't know, don't do don't know what they're lost in fashion.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06

So I started doing fashion conversation. Right? Because I said that God will look at you and go like, eh, I made you a superstar. You're keeping it. Okay, don't worry, I'll see you in the future. I'm like, okay, I've heard you. Fashion conversation is open again. Let's go and do another one. But the number of people that have attended, that when I post on not that one, they're like, oh, I was there four years ago and it was the best time of my life, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That just makes me feel like it's wholesome. I hardly even put out the clips afterwards because that's not the reason why I'm doing it. You know. So I believe that if I didn't do fashion, would I be telling marketing directors how to be amazing marketing directors? No, something already covers that. So me, becoming a fashion designer, has opened up to this thing where I can actually still touch lights in a different way. And I enjoy it because they say when you just when you do kindness and you wait for it to come back in return, it's a strategy. But when you do something, I know it's when you come back in return, and that's pure kindness. So when people do, I'm like, I don't expect you to give me back. I just want to do it. And I'll keep moving. So I believe that some of these things are part of purpose that we cannot actually document that this is the reason why it's my job to do this, you know. One thing I'm very terrible at is actually, you know, how motivational speaker I can tell you uh what you are doing is the propulsity for a man's subtleity for maturity. I don't know how to couch those things, but I live in the practicality of those things, yeah, and that's what I do everything. Yeah, but I told my wife she wants me to be that godfather. You know, she said, You are a good man, and that one just hit me.

SPEAKER_04

I I I like I like when you've taken this conversation too, uh, about you know, I guess starting from you talking about purpose in general, and you now sort of put it in context because I guess when I was thinking of this topic, and I like to talk very realistically a lot in the context of the space we exist in, where a lot of people believe finding themselves is rooted in well, what is my calling? What's my duty? Sorry, not as every calling, what's my duty as a man? Yeah, that sort of dictates how you and I think that's why there's a lot of maybe confusion is the word with how this new generation of generation Z are more about self-self, yeah. People see it as selfish, but it's actually I want to be okay.

SPEAKER_06

People see it as selfish, which is not bad because selfish is not a bad thing, yeah. But we think selfish as a bad thing, yeah. But you know, because we think selfish is a bad thing, no, selfish is not a bad thing, so I want to put it in the selfish itself as a word, it's not a bad thing. So if I'm selfish, right? It doesn't mean against you, it means for me. Okay, that's that's what I will like.

SPEAKER_01

So it's like doing things selfishly, it's like it's not like I'm trying to hurt you, it's like I'm trying to let you why I struggle with what you're saying. I think there's a difference between self-care and being selfish. I personally don't believe that being selfish is a positive thing because you can't live your life for yourself alone. Fair enough. Like, is it is a miserable or eventually will end up being a miserable way of life if you only care about yourself. Like you can't have a selfish and be a father, you can't be selfish and be a husband.

SPEAKER_06

Yeah, you understand? It's like you will compromise for somebody when you feel like it's like I need to sleep one hour, so guys, I can't make it.

SPEAKER_01

Hey, that's what I'm saying. So, self-care, I agree with completely. Okay, so the guy for us, but that's what I was saying.

SPEAKER_04

I was trying to make because a lot of us are brought up in that oh look out for, lookout for, look out for. Yeah, a lot of them now are more about well, I need to be okay first.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, it might be called selfish because some people may term it as your selfish because we are like you don't care about anybody for now.

SPEAKER_04

This is about me, me, yeah. Whereas we're taught to everybody has to be okay first before, yeah. So as I talk about duty, what's your duty? Not necessarily your calling, yeah, what's seen as your duty is almost more paramount, and I feel like which is what I was talking about, the space we are in the Nigeria, yeah. Nigeria, yeah. There's also the economic factor, right? So when you're trying to be self-caring, I won't say ish when you want to make it about okay, finding myself, and you also know that's okay, ah or more the hustle here is different. Yeah, whether we like it or not, I know you don't like say you like to say let's not put Nigeria in this box, but they're very it's one of those places where planning comes with policy change or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so people are always constantly living on it. Remember when we woke up and they say we're in band a exactly overnight.

SPEAKER_04

I remember getting this never back down to Bandi or the first time I bought uh after the band, when like I was like, everything I forgot they have put us back down to the band, and I bought units.

SPEAKER_03

I said, let's not tell anybody forgot no money.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so we exist in a space where like content is very important. When you're telling a man here to go and discover yourself, the traffic I was in, so we exist in a very different plane, yeah. Where duty calls, provider calls, pressure calls, and finding yourselves become becomes completely secondary, yeah. And sadly, people get to their 50s, 60s, yeah, and you just have to find comfort in. Well, at least I have children, yeah, and they don't go to school, yeah, and no hunger, no kimi. Yeah, that is your own, yeah. That is where you are. That's your reality, yeah.

SPEAKER_06

And you find happiness there somewhere, sad. Yeah, but this journey to finding self, and I want to sound like the typical African man or Nigerian man. What is finding? How do you know you found yourself? Do we even understand the journey in the way we have been brought up and what we have seen around us for years? Do you really know what it is to find self at the end of the day? I I know how to describe my own position in life, which is have to do with contentment. And I think the more I verbalize it and be okay with some things, like I say, I'm very sure Arias is um wealthier than me, and that's okay. 20 something you're all charging. It is what it is. I guess what it is. Very easy believable. But you know what I mean? So when you think about things like Judge and like you know what? I thought they were never able to own the house in Banana Island, and I'm okay. Yeah, do you know what I mean? Yeah, when you start doing things like that, you can genuinely be happy for somebody who has bought a house in Banana Island, yeah, you know, so you don't necessarily see it as competition, but you know what? Well done, nice one. Because that was good for you, yeah. But this is me and my own journey.

SPEAKER_04

Did you not draw the line between being content and not being inspirational? Motivational. So I think because then it's not like you know, no, people are likely for banana.

SPEAKER_06

No, I think the contentment is a spirituality thing, doesn't mean that you will never get it, but if you're okay to say I would drive as hard as I can drive, it's like sometimes do we sit as do as men just look at ourselves in the mirror and just like you know what? Oh, but well done, you don't try. Yeah, we don't do that, yeah. We don't do that, you just sit and look. Like I said, I said, Man, well done, man. You you know, I know the time I want to go to the UK and I want to stay in the hotel, and I'm going to Kent stay with my brother because I can't afford it.

SPEAKER_07

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_06

Or you want to use it? I am here, or you just want to come, I'll get you one room. The rest of the I'm like, oh wow, did I just say that? You know, I'm like, well, you don't try. I'm like, ah, man, Babaji, thanks, man. You know, you know what I mean? Yeah, we don't do that. And I feel like if you appreciate your journey, and as you go, you you thank yourself for like Snoop, we say, I want to thank myself for being myself. Right. The next level, you want to because they even try a bit harder, you know, so I can get to another level. Because in Nigeria, in the context of this country, oh boy, money is important. That thing of providing is huge for men in this country. A man will look at someone having conversation with young men, and they're like, when I see a girl on Instagram, I see Fendi Bag, I see G Wagon, and I like her. I will pack my face and move away. Hey, why? Because I know I do not have what it takes to step up. So I would cover my and I'll move this way. And when I say why I've never married, I don't have what it takes, I don't have enough money to get married. He is ready, but he's looking financially. Can I add another person to my lifestyle and take care of that person too? That's what's happening to a lot of men, and that's the real part of things. Because I I mean I may sound it sounded a little bit funny here, but a woman's life can change because of marriage. A man's life can also change because of marriage. Change in the opposite because the one time your wife will look at you and disrespect you when she asked you money for market many times and you don't give a body, she will call you useless and compare you and compare you to your friends. Yeah, do you know what I mean? And that's the reality of it, she will tell you, and that's when the man will look at that and go like, hey, Chimo, now me be this, but now you be this, and that's the reality. You are telling that guy to find self because he has the mind space to find self because he's constantly hosting. I mean, to everybody here, when you genuinely have a free time in courts and you relax, and there's not a lot to do, your brain starts to work because it's not cluttered, you know, that's like, I mean, oh, that's a great idea. That idea does not come when you are trying to shoot director, you ready? Did he will not hit you? But when you are in Venice on a boat, wow, I think you know what?

SPEAKER_05

Maybe I want to propose because your head is now clear. Well said, well said, because your head is now clear. You see, you are saying things differently, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

I think I think the thing to to watch out for in terms of the the finding the line between contentment and you know being ambitious or being you know aspiring to something greater is or lacking ambition. Yeah, or lacking ambition is where you don't where you want to have the place you want to avoid being in is in a place of envy and covetousness. And those are big, like heavy spiritual words. But envy essentially means I see somebody who is doing whatever and has become successful, and I find myself in a place where I'm hating or thoroughly disliking the person because of what they've achieved or the success that has come to them. Covetousness is me seeing somebody who has something, and I want that thing. So I want that wife or that house or whatever, and I'm now so obsessed with wanting what somebody has, and I'm not even I don't even care so much about the story or anything else that has gone into the person's process into getting there. Um, and I think that that's where being content. Bible says, sorry, Bible says uh godliness with contentment um is great gain, right? So we want to be godly, want to you know be like Christ, but we want to be content with where we are and not stumble into this place of envy or covetousness. But the Bible also gives this great story about the talents in the Bible where it says one the master's going away, he gives one five, he gives one two, he gives one one, each according to his capacity, and then he goes away. And then the one with five talents goes invests it, gets five more. The one with two, I think it's two or three talents, goes invested and comes back with double what he was given. And then the one who was given one just sits on it. And what that story always said to me, even though it was told in the context of money, but I also thought about in the context of talents and giftings and whatever God has bestowed on the inside of you. So if all I ever did was sing because God gave me the ability to sing a song, and that's all I ever did, then settling is failure, right? Dust settles, but people should never. We should we should be ambitious. We should say, I've been given this, but let me try and do something more with what I've been given. Let me try and expand, let me try and grow, let me try and scale. You know, healthy things tend to grow. So you you push yourself, but you don't push yourself so much where you are now envious and covetous about everything else that you see around you. Let me ask you. You're content with where you are.

SPEAKER_06

I know a lot of the host here, but I have to ask you. No, please, please, it's a conversation. Do you think your being a musician was a part of your story, or was it supposed to be your story? Was it supposed to be my story? Or is it is it is it your story, or is it supposed to be part of your story?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it's definitely just a part.

SPEAKER_06

It's just a part of your story.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, for me, absolutely just a part. I think it goes back to what I was just saying.

SPEAKER_06

Would you sing again?

SPEAKER_01

Would I sing again? I would. Like would you publish? Here's what here's what I would say. I heard once that artists don't retire.

SPEAKER_06

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

They just stop when they have nothing left to say. And that kind of rings true for me in the sense that when I feel like I have something that I want to say musically, I will.

SPEAKER_07

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And that obviously will take longer periods in between because of the stage of life that I'm in now and the other things that are priority to me, and the other things that you know, family, provision, income, business, reducing for self, calling, ministry. So what I would say is that, and I've told God this that if you give me the songs to sing, I'll sing them.

SPEAKER_06

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And you so, so, so I I have I have folders on my phone when ideas come to me, I'll just you know, write the lyrics or or hum the melody down. And I know that at some point I'll probably get back in the studio. I just actually don't know what based on when this episode will come out, but in me writing all these ideas down, I don't know if you know Victor Thompson, this yeah, he just reached out to me out of the blue and was like, oh, I have a song that I think I'm supposed to do with you. And it was right around the time that I was thinking, you know, I should probably, you know, dust the microphone off. And I recorded a song with him, and I I really appreciated the opportunity because I think he's phenomenal. But what I'll say is that I'm at the stage where that will never be the number one thing that I do. Like, I'm my goal now is being a vessel for God to use me to pour into other people, for God to use me to teach, for God to use me to impart, for God to use me to uplift, for God to use me to change lives and bless people. And that tends to be more in like teaching or preaching or speaking or you know, those kinds of things. But it I will never say never. I will never say I'm never ever going to record again or anything like that. It's just that in the hierarchy of priorities of my life, it's just not gonna be number one. But it'll be in the mix.

SPEAKER_06

Some people have gotten to a point whereby you know, you sing in all go, you know, go hits again.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you you didn't leave the music before the music left you. Yes.

SPEAKER_06

And is it time that you just say, you know what, it is what it is, right? Yeah, and I'm fine, right? And let it be, and then we go and look for another side hustle to just keep it going, or do I keep trying? Or second is there's also that part of who says you cannot do music but not be the guy that puts it out because he wants something in return. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you understand? Yeah, so it's like we can be in a room and it's 20 people, and we say, uh, let's sing, and we sing, and we are happy for the memories, and we just leave. You can drop something new and just share with wherever this is, so put it there. If it goes, it goes, doesn't go, it doesn't go. I I'm not expecting anything major out of it, but not fulfilling that little side of me.

SPEAKER_01

Such a great point. I think to everything there's a time and a season, and especially in in worlds like sports or entertainment, music, you know, so on and so forth. You will have your moments in the sun, but your life and your identity and your sense of fulfillment of purpose cannot be about that moment in the sun alone. Like the sun is shining on other parts of your life, but you need to be wise enough to know is it time to pivot? Is it time to expand? Because it'll it'll sneak up. It's like the athlete that all of a sudden no longer has a playing career. Does life end at that point, or have you now taken steps in other areas? And I think it's tough for people, like I said, who do like music or or you know, sports, sports, yeah. Because it's like you're looking for that day. You know, and and sometimes that day is is that ship has sailed. So you hopefully would have set up enough other things, and I'm very blessed and very fortunate God has been gracious. Where, you know, being in ministry gives me probably the greatest sense of fulfillment that I've ever had in my life, aside from my family and my faith. But just being in ministry, serving, teaching, preaching, pouring into people, helping people in that way fulfills me more than anything else that I've ever done. So everything else is just all, and even this is just a part of the story, but it's because I've come to this understanding that purpose is this world. Like you can't, you're in a part of your purpose right now because somebody's sitting here listening to Mayatafu talk about a lady who did it who did this and did that, and now her business like that's fulfilling purpose. Oh, yeah, 100%. That's we're we're all in a part of our purpose every day. So don't be so stuck on one job or one area of provision or income or one thing that you did or one thing that you're hoping to do, that you miss everything else that God is doing around you. Because with God is always the journey, oh, yeah, it's always the steps you're taking, it's always the person that you are becoming and not just this one thing that you were fortunate enough to do.

SPEAKER_06

Fair enough. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Sorry, offering time. Maybe break time before you go.

SPEAKER_06

I want to ask you a question now. Yeah, do you think age or age and or exposure in life helps you in this finding self and purpose or advancement, everybody?

SPEAKER_04

Advancement, exposure, maybe I know maybe it's very strong because I don't know, but I think everybody growth without even necessarily being exposed, you kind of know, right? But I don't think age does. I think age even maybe puts you more because the older you are, the less likely you are to even risk, take risks, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_06

So does it make you understand? Because when I can understand myself, look at myself as a 20-something year old boy, right?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I didn't know what yeah, you understand it better, yeah, right, but it's also now harder to get up. I mean to try to fulfill. Yeah, a lot can do this, a lot can say, okay, today now I want to start building rockets as big as towers, he can afford to. Not many people have that luxury to start over, try new things because they are dreaming it. And it's harder when you're older, but then, like you say, when you're younger, you can take those risks, you don't even necessarily know what the purpose is.

SPEAKER_06

What I'm trying to do now is just like you know, to people that are watching this, yeah. So the knowing is there, but the doing is I don't, I think for us Nigerians, you know, growth, age, advancement helps you gives you clarity. Definitely, and this might sound a bit motivational. Whatever age you are, and you begin to get the clarity, still still still do the stuff. Yeah, because it doesn't mean you're not gonna go for it. By all means, if you are 50, you don't have to abandon the other one, go for it. You can sort of still that I agree with you. It may not be your provider note, it may just be your um purpose mode and also part of your happiness, yeah, in that little space. So because that's what happens to a lot of people, they just think I don't old now, I know if it's I think that's very, very true. So I I think regardless of how old you are, yeah, you know, still still go for it. It may it may look stupid, but if you are happy with it, then you know, by all means, in this ageism is a huge thing in this. We have a show on ageism coming up. Yeah, we're not sure ageism coming up. I think what I've tried to do is like I've been telling people I've I've come to you because initially like I'm like, no, I think you want to look young, feel young, but be wise with yeah with oldness, whatever that is, right? So I'm happy to tell you I am old, I'm not your mate, I am older because you're like, Yeah, yeah, I am. Like my my standing joke is like, you know, under 10 years' time, I'll be a senior citizen in England after pay for transportation anymore. Do you get what I mean? So I try to look for things that are positive because you know what? Like you say in Spanish or in French, I say how many years do you have? Because they equate the years to some level of growth. Not how old are you? It's how many do you have. So if I have 60 and you have 20, I have more than you have. Do you get what I mean? And my prayer for you is that you should have 60. And you can't say no to that prayer except she wants to die earlier. And I think, and because a lot of people are feeling that thing about ageism, it's like, no, one musician is saying, Ah, look at this person now, she's adding roles to it. Look at him, you cannot move like a butt. But that's the beauty of it. Because I Did that when I was your time, right? And this is where I am right now. And I think it's fine. So I just use that little cue to just tell people that as you age, it's probably when you are advanced enough to start saying, you know what? I figured out myself. I want to do interior design, but not for the commercial part of it, but for the happiness I'm going to get out of it. Then you know what? I'll do it.

SPEAKER_04

I was to wrap up with this, uh it's our live original moment, and um, I got this message, which I find very interesting. He said, Is it even possible to find yourself when your family already wrote the scripts of your life before you were born? I feel like I'm just a collection of my parents' expectations. How did you handle the guilt of disappointing people to finally find who you actually are?

SPEAKER_00

Yes. So I I if I think back far enough, because I'm a little older.

SPEAKER_03

If I think back far enough, you were in big disappointments. You go study for four years, college student loan. Music.

SPEAKER_01

Ah I so I know I know what it feels like. Um, where there's a version of your life story that everybody is comfortable with and expecting, and then you just kind of do a 180-degree turn and you're going in a completely different direction. I would say though, that ultimately sometimes you have to lose the version of yourself that everybody is comfortable with to find the person that you will be happy living with for the rest of your life. And it was similar for me, like it was with you when you described when you said, you know what, if I take two years, let me just take two years and just try and do this thing. For me, it was like when I graduated, I studied engineering in university, had a pretty good job coming out of um college, and you know, great pay, great benefits, good all of that. But it was just this thing where I was wrestling with like, is this what my life is going to be like for the rest of my I'll just be here, sitting in front of a computer, going to client side, you know. And I just got to the point where I was like, if I don't try this thing, then I'll never know. Like, and I'll wake up one day, I'll be 45, 50 years old, and I'll say, ah, but when I was young, I used to, and I didn't want that to be my story. And so at the time I had to have what were very tough conversations with my folks to be like, I need you to just ignore me for two years and just let me go get this thing out of my system. Let me just know that I I gave it everything that I wanted to give it. And if it doesn't work, no problem. I'll come back, I'll get a master's, I'll get a job. But I need to like I can, I used to say this I can live with trying and failing, but I can't live with not trying. Let me layer that question. Sorry.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, with with parents now who do not get it.

SPEAKER_01

The reality is that some parents won't.

SPEAKER_04

So, like a lot of I don't want to generalize, but if we have a lot of parents in this past who are just like, what? Yeah, so how do you handle that?

SPEAKER_01

So we came up at a time when I think parents now are probably even more liberal liberal because they've seen that these things work, these things work, and there are more examples of people doing unorthodox things. When we came up, I used to say something like a joke. In our time when we were young and we were growing up, our parents say you can be one of five things engineer, doctor, lawyer, accountant, or failure. And that and that was it, but it was like even you had to risk, or at least I had to risk being seen like that to become who I felt I was meant to be. And I didn't even know who I was meant to be, but I knew that was not on this space, it's not here in this space, and it sometimes it's it's in having the courage to go after those things that other doors start to open and you start to evolve. Like I'm not the same person today that I was five or ten years ago, talkless of 20 years ago, when I was making the decisions on what to do with myself. So, again, for the person that would share, or for anybody that's going through something like that, it's like you have to be okay with losing the version of your life story that everybody else is comfortable with, to find the version that is meant for you. For me, that cannot come without the context of your relationship with God. That's been my experience. Um I'll say this courage brings relationships, it brings resources, it brings, it gives you the opportunity to build a legacy. Just having courage. Sometimes it's just finding the courage to take a step. One of my favorite quotes of all time, and I'll stop here, is by uh Zig Ziglar, and he says, You don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great. And if you don't even give yourself the chance to start putting one foot in front of the other, then you'll you'll just never know. So sometimes just just just start, start something, you know, and see what happens.

SPEAKER_04

All right, I think I'll just wrap this up with saying that. I mean, I I hear you. I also had some of those conversations, have conversations with my own parents because I'm a lawyer who decided to hold microphone. Yes, and I mean when shit that has a whole idea up until six years into my TV life, my dad used to still send me vacancies that like I know someone at this officer. Yeah, you know, I've spoken to them, you can just go and do an interview. You know, he had because he had no freaking idea. What are you doing? And they were digging it from your love. Yeah, that's why I want to end with this. Because now, as a parent, let's tell ourselves the truth. Yes. And your child comes to you and says, This is what I want to do. And I think because a lot of us have also gone down this path of uncertainty for years, knowing it's not a I want to be an actor, so I'm going to start acting. There's all of these pitfalls that come with it. You can see why going back to this meal, parents have expectations, or they've planned your life for you because they know that this thing is hard or this thing might not work. So this is where you're going to follow. Um, so while it is great that we're finding ourselves, I guess the charge is for us to also keep in mind because I find myself with that.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I look, I have concerns of my children, and I'm just, oh, yeah, you're going to work at NASA, you're gonna just training them up in the way they need to grow and the job they need to have.

SPEAKER_04

So it's that's yeah, yeah. Also remembering that you know, we pay it for what you let go and let God, but it's a very hard one. It is hard.

SPEAKER_06

I also think like people like um I recall her name again, Arias Mom should be should be spoken, we should hear from her how they handled their because that's that is a very tricky situation. You hear your 19-year-old child is in studio somewhere, and you are somewhere, and you're okay. Yeah, those stories are not be okay, but you know, look at what it's turned out to be. It's like, how have you guys in the middle of all this? How did you do it and make it work? I want to know, yeah, because we could learn a thing or two from that because it is scary, yeah. Because I my friends will watch Arias and go like, hey, hey, his daughter that is the same age, you see how to go clumb. Are you mad?

SPEAKER_05

Dude, there you are.

SPEAKER_04

You know, it is very well. Please share with us in the comments. We want to hear from you how you are finding yourself. You found yourself, how did you get through with it? And um, you know, share this video with your friends, subscribe, spread the word. Mentality is here for you. And um, thanks for joining us today. Cheers. All of you with your water.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, take us like we've found ourselves.

SPEAKER_06

We are still finding ourselves. We are still finding ourselves.

SPEAKER_04

This season of mentality with Abuka is brought to you by Schweppes and the Glen Event.