Understanding Gen Z | MENtality with Ebuka, Banky W & Tobeszn

In this episode of MENtality with Ebuka, host Ebuka Obi-Uchendu is joined by co-host Banky Wellington, alongside Gen Z influencer and content creator Tobeszn, for a thought-provoking conversation on ageism, leadership, and the evolving dynamics of influence across generations.

The discussion explores how age often shapes perceptions of credibility, authority, and opportunity, particularly within many African societies where leadership is traditionally associated with seniority and years of experience. For many young men, this can create barriers to participation, innovation, and decision-making, reinforcing the belief that leadership is something to grow into rather than something they may already be prepared for.

Together, the guests examine the tensions that can arise between established and emerging leaders, discussing the value of lived experience alongside the fresh perspectives, adaptability, and innovation that younger generations bring. The conversation challenges conventional ideas about leadership, questioning whether wisdom is defined solely by age or whether it can also be demonstrated through competence, character, emotional intelligence, and vision.

Ultimately, the episode encourages listeners to rethink how leadership is recognised and developed, advocating for greater collaboration between generations where experience and innovation complement rather than compete with one another. It presents leadership not as a privilege reserved for age, but as a responsibility earned through integrity, capability, and a willingness to serve.

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MENtality With Ebuka is a production of Knight & Sheriff and EME.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Every generation thinks the next one is softer, louder, or lost. What if Gen Z isn't broken, just operating with a completely different map of the world? Well, today on Mentality with Abuka, I'm joined by my co-host Banky W and Gen Z Influenza Tobias. This season of mentality with Abuka is brought to you by Schweppes and the Glen Leavett. Why are you worried? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Are we are we are we do we look threatening to you? No, too great, man. Imagine a fish. You don't have faith in yourself. I do have it.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Congratulations on that, by the way. Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

How was law school for you?

SPEAKER_04 0:46

It was your deal law school and influencing and doing all of this public life, which I find crazy. Well, not crazy because people thought I was going to fail law schools. And I did it, but I wasn't influencing, I was just kind of in and out of school and all of that. But this being distracted in on that level, people fail law school. Were you not afraid?

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah, I was yeah, no.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

But I was doing his skate. Yeah, because I saw I saw his um, I think he did a TikTok of you checking your results. Yes, I did when I checked.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

So my question is when you when you are checking that if you now find a simple code, oh Ghost, that was fun. Moving on swiftly on to the next.

SPEAKER_04 1:33

I don't have any, you know. You press, then you know what to. I'm like, the email is still going to be back from back. But anyway, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to mentality with Ibuka. And um, we have a special guest here today, of course. Back in Ws in the House, as always. A baloba, yes, sir, because you have Baloga to do with people. Hey, listen, I'm an ego. I will have you with us. What do you like to be called? Toby season or barista.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Hey, put the title there. I was easy, seven years. No, but today's season is fine, but sometimes barrister T when I'm feeling uh-uh, BT. Yeah, B T.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

Well, you heard him, Barista T. Yeah. The Gen Z lawyer in the building, influencer, amongst other things. And we're gonna be. I think today we want to try and understand Gen Z's. Yeah, and this is very important for us. One, because I feel like I've been guilty, even on this show, for a few episodes of generalizing how this generation moves. I've said it a lot on the show. Gen Z's are Gen Ziza. So maybe we need to even be schooled on this thing. Because you already given give us an insight a bit outside of the show about this. Is not all Gen Z's. Yeah, you said the people around you are not that way when we're talking about something. So, how do you feel, first of all, about this tag? It feels like your generation, more than any other generation, however, you act, is tied to the fact that you're Gen Z. Do you think that's a fair way to view you guys? Um or do you guys bring it up on yourselves?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

So, what's funny is I've never been on the podcast that someone is saving me. So I'm a bit shocked. I'm like, Jen.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

This is how millennials do it. I'm like, whoa! Broke, I'm like the center. There's depth.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

There's depth of people walk around. Um, I think the we're being young, I'm not sure. I feel like in the past like five years, like every time it's like Gen Z, Gen Z, Gen Z. And I I don't know when it became a thing, but I've just somewhat gotten used to it, right? So if I would do something, they're like, ah, Gen Z are so Gen Z are so audio, so Gen Z are so disrespectful. Are they both true? I think that constant is nuanced in a sense that I think well, everyone is going to be, and I was explaining this to someone earlier on. Jesse struggles my dad would have had that I would never have, right? And I'm sure at that time though, too, your generation was XYZ, but it wasn't as mainstream because we didn't have the internet to we are seeing Gen Z's around the world. So for the first time, there's a collective. So I'm going to give an instance. I would believe my dad's dad would be like, you naughty boy, you and your friends in your age group were XYZ. But for the first time, I see a collective people around the world have one thing in common from audacity to just raw opinions, and it's one name they're calling us Gen Z's. So it's just easier to group us together. So when it comes down to it, I don't know that Gen Z are no, I think Gen Z's are very audacious, but I also know, I think I know why. And but I don't know if we're disrespectful as a collective, because it's very it becomes very polytelling. I wouldn't say Gen Z's are disrespectful at all. I also wouldn't, it's a disingenuous to say at all.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

So I think people can be disrespectful, but I don't think it's a factor of age.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

So it's not a Gen Z thing.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

I don't think it's a Gen Z thing to be disrespectful. I think it's a people thing.

SPEAKER_04 5:17

But you think audaciousness is a Gen Z thing. So why then do you think that one is and disrespect isn't?

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Because one is a nicer word.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

I think that's what I was saying it, I was like, I was trying to think about the reasoning why, but I think in genuinity, you would have so percentage-wise, if I were to meet 10 young people who actually don't I don't use Gen Z's by the way. Only when I'm people that know Jensi actually say Gen Z's. I would say young people.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

But it showed us our age.

SPEAKER_00 5:41

But if I meet like 10 young people, 10 of them would have audacity in the sense that they want more. And I understand why they want more. Like systematically, we have to want more. I've seen my parents want more, but not go for it. Every typical Gen Z feels like I'm the answer to my parents' prayers. We've known that we've had to go, we've had to do what our parents couldn't. So for the first time, realistically, we're on part with the Western world. We have internet that there's nothing you are going to tell me that's I cannot know. So the reason we have so much audacity is we know what's possible. So we are backed up like systematically, we're encoded to have audacity. We can't tell, I can say, I want to build an app that does XYZ. You know, I want to change the future of creators across Africa. But I'm not just saying it anymore. I have audacity because there's data that can back it up and say, oh, there's a 20-year-old in Thailand that did this. So audacity is inborn because we have seen it happen. But that's why I wouldn't say disrespect is. Because there's no backtrack, there's no data that says younger people are disrespectful. And I so sometimes when I have conversations with people and they're like, oh yeah, Jenzies are disrespectful. And I'm like, in the Nigerian system, leadership doesn't like being challenged. And young people like to challenge leadership. It's always been a thing. So anything will look like disrespect. So unless you're open-minded, you generally think young people are disrespectful.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

So every generation thinks that the ones coming after them are soft and entitled. It just happens to be like our parent generation thought that we were soft and entitled. Ah, in my day, you didn't know. I used to trek, I didn't wear shoes. I used to go to you know.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

I did I did that to my daughter recently, but did you really?

SPEAKER_03 7:19

You just came out. That's how you know you have entered the school.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

You are a daddy now. I think something happened whether the driver picked her up late from school and she got very I said, Do you know I used to trek? And I'm like, you have become yes, you're now why does she have completely the circle?

SPEAKER_03 7:35

Why does she care? Sorry. So so my question is, what is it that Gen Z, and I I know we say we don't want to generalize, but what is it that people of this generation that you're in are reacting to that others maybe don't understand?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

I think for one, a lot of things generally. Um, you are also Nigeria is a pretty like relatively new country, we're just like 60 something. And there's times when that we say, Oh, when I was younger, when you finish your class five, you can get a job, you can do this. And in my head, I'm like, Well, daddy, that's not the reality right now. I no one is going to hire me. I have to have more. Like, we are I I know the economy must have been bad in you guys' time, but guys. No, but I'm saying, like, as a young adult, yeah, I wept. No, but as a young adult, like you're almost on the brink of poverty already. Like, like you're already handicapped, like the economic situation is bad. So that is a defining factor for us, like realistically. I so I also don't know, because I don't like to say in comparison, but I've read books on times before, and I'm just like we're really suffering as young people in Nigeria, and I also think the social values have shifted in a sense that I think way back from books I've read, if I left Union and I wanted to be a professor, it would be more respected. We've put so much value on money subconsciously that everyone no one wants to settle for personally. I I like money, but I also like a calm life. I would love to live in a cabin.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

Isn't the argument that it's even you guys that are more materialistic now? But what's the precedence for us being materialistic?

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Comparing yourself to your peers, yes, but I and social media making that comparison very easy to do and almost unavoidable.

SPEAKER_04 9:31

Because there's the argument that the generation before Gen Z, I don't want this to be a fight or anything. No, we're just trying to understand Genesis. No, we'll look at it. Because there's a conversation that millennials, whatever generation are before Gen Z we competed, if anything, with our community. Uh oh, my neighbor don't buy Corolla. You are not aspiring to that Corolla, whereas you guys are constantly looking at the guy. You met now, you day and I mentioned Thailand. Yeah, but startup. We still have Thailand to compare ourselves to. Yeah, so you guys are a lot more vicious. Vicious with I want these things. Yes. And it's also perceived that you want those things without actually working to earn it. You want those things at 23. Yeah. When the realistic conversation should be you get to 34, 35, or maybe not even age-wise, you would have certain things. Yes. So it also comes with the impatience of wanting to achieve things. Maybe society has made it that way, social media has made it that way. But that's also a fact, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Yes, I think so. I think what why this is funny is um I recently need to make a video about just the influencing people from certain standards of reality. For instance, if you are 25 and you've bought your first house, you are literally wonning a million. Yes, like it is not that's one thing. People don't realize that's the exception. It doesn't matter. It is not the normal. And that's what I was trying to explain. Like, yeah, yes, the post is going to do well, do well. Yes, 100,000 people are going to like it and say, Oh my god, 25 and I've got your first house. Well, you're just one person getting your first house at 25. Like, realistically, around the world, having a certain amount of money, driving a certain a certain type of car is a privilege. And I always tell people, like, when someone tells me, like, I need to 19, I need to lock in, I need to buy a bins, ah, I don't think you're buying the job. And so it's such a it's such a common thing, and I like to tell my friends that I think if you are driving a Benz at 19, I think you're a lot, you're very privileged. So your parents either have had money or you are very privileged to have worked at that age to get that money because it is it's literally a glitch in the system, it is not normal. And something I like to say is, I'm going to live my entire life. If I do everything when I'm 25, then what am I gonna do when I'm 60? I think as young people, we need to consciously remind ourselves that life will happen. Just keep going. But it's hard, and as a young person, I understand it. There are certain times that actually I'm very content with my own life, but there's certain times that I see something and I'm like, it's brilliant. I think it's the con of social media. Because I can equally dream, I can equally not feel enough. I can equally not feel enough. So in a so in a system that I can go home today and say, Oh my god, I was on the podcast with two icons, right? But then I open my my phone and I see someone podcast Elon Musk. And I'm like, Oh, there's such a far way to go. But if I was just a far way, let's let's be honest. Okay, yeah, but we even now like okay, I hear okay. I'll be by two icons separate, yes, great. Now they are way. Yeah, don't worry, but do you understand coming from it's such a oh wow, I can do this too. Let me give you an instance. I can walk into this set and say, ah, wow, this icon has this, I want mine too. Because it's such a I think also every time I think of this, I can't help but realize that when society rewards money realistically, like I've seen creators who might not have as much substance, but they're like, Oh, they're rich. So even in arguments, you can be arguing with someone and they're like, How much you get for your account? And every time I hear that, I'm like, surely money is not a test of intelligence. But we've created a world where it something is, it's undeniable. It's in the things we do, is in the so many things happen, and I'm like, you guys know that. Wow. So, in a sense, that's how I look at it and how I look at my friend, but when I speak to them, I always say, like, we're the next industry leaders, right? In the sense that where you are right now, if you've gone this far, what I what exactly are you scared of? Like the odds are you've you've already beat the odds. If you are here, if you've done this, you've done XYZ, surely you're going to get far. But sometimes I speak to young people, and there's so much fear, and I think it's just a con of social media. Is unfortunately comparison is the thief of joy. Like you will feel left out, you feel things can be better, and it's always going to happen.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

How do you feel like how do you feel as a Gen Z guy as compared to the women, right? Um, I've seen insinuations um about how much better the women are doing in your generation, whether it's because of the influenza culture, social media sort of favors women. I mean, the aesthetics are always uh so how does that make you feel? And secondly, is it fair to say that I'm trying to frame this to frame this well because we are such a close we're very close generation-wise, millennials and Gen Z, but we don't seem to understand each other enough. Um is it fair to say that a lot of the burdens you carry might have been because we didn't do things right before you guys?

SPEAKER_00 15:07

I don't think so. I don't think it's because as a person, because every time I have these conversations, I like to really see to my parents and how I think about my older cousins, older my parents. I give everyone grace in a sense that I don't want the next generation to come and say, Oh, Toby, you could have done this. I couldn't have. I was so, in a sense that's I don't think it's necessarily so there's certain things that I think no, I don't think it's any is necessarily any generation's fault. For instance, bad government, bad leadership. What would my what would my daddy have done? I hope he tried his best, but I'm not going to live my entire life angry at a best that he couldn't try. There are so many factors that would affect certain positions. Like, I would never say, um, oh, older creators could have done better for me. I would say, what can I do better for younger creators? Also, because maybe it's easier to look at it that way. So I don't, and on the convention of is it fair, I don't think life is life is meant to be fair. I don't think, and it's also a realist, I don't think life is black and white. If people say female creators earn more right now, statistically, a lot of people who use social media more are women, so they have a fan base. Yes, that's a good point. Data will back, and so I think a lot of people are not realistic with what they are now, in a sense that before I became a creator, who is mainstream now. I hope all the cameras are getting oh, I used to just enjoy taking photos, right? And I liked it, but I did decide that oh, I want to make more money, so I want to do things that put me in a light, that position me as mainstream. And I was realistic with my what do I have, what can I offer, what can I put out there? I think there's a there's a subtle idea, and I've been seeing this conversation recently, like no one is coming to save you, and people say, Oh, my sister will, oh my mother will, yes, people will save you in micro ways, but the idea that no one is coming to save you is like it's broad, it's like at the end of the day, it's you. You might have all the community in the world, but if you don't stand up and do it, like if you don't stand up and work, like it's you. So even when people say, Oh, I think female creators earn more, I'm like, that's the tea. That's the thing if you don't write your story before it even starts. Because if you go in with the mindset of someone is earning more, or the older generation could have done better, I think it's just blame game for me. And I might be speaking from a point of privilege entirely, and I'd be I might be entirely there. It will come back, he could have done more for me. Don't tell me that they could have done scholarships, but I'm also it's also the reality of, and I was explaining this to someone, I was thinking to someone, and they're like, YouTube pays African creators less. Oh, I shouldn't say brand. Yikes, but um so now I'm guessing okay, let's say a a music streaming platform, like, oh, they pay Africans less. And I'm like, guys, our subscription fees are subsidized, yeah. Of course they pay us less. We don't make enough, like do you know like when you think of the data, like it's not random. Okay, the subscription fees are subsidized for in Nigeria, like of course they will pay the artists less. Like, where is the money meant to come from? And so when you have certain conversations like this, it's such a every time people say, like, oh, African creators are underpaid. I'm like, yes, I agree entirely. I would also like to add that it is a growing system, like up until 15 years ago or 10 years ago, we didn't have when people ask me what do I do for as a job, I get anxiety because I'm like, how do I explain to you what I do for a job? I make videos on the internet, and it's such a funny conversation because that means if it has grown this far this quick, imagine it's in the next 10 years. So it's more like that. That's how I think about it.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

So I think one of the challenges with this kind of conversation is you are kind of being put on the spot to speak not just for yourself, but for your entire generation, which you really can't do, right? Because everybody's wired differently. That's not fair, yeah. And yeah, so the and the reason I use that preamble is to kind of get you this next question that I want to ask. I want you to think about your response as Tobey, but also think about your response as class president, yeah, as you know, class president of the Gen Z generation. And the reason I say that is one of the uh prevailing notions about the Gen Z generation is that maybe they don't really want to put in as much work and they don't want that same level of accountability. And I'm not saying that myself, but I'm saying that this is you know something exists. Now, the the only semblance of an experience that I've had with this was in one of the companies that I co-owned, we hired uh who I didn't laugh because you know my story. We hired somebody a Gen Zoom, but whenever you hear company and Gen Z, you gotta know what the story is very quick every time. Yeah, so we hired somebody, like a Gen Z lady um to come and work in a marketing role, like social media marketing and all of that. And I remember within the first, I think the first two or three weeks, you know, there was just this like kind of a general like lack of just not just showing like within the first two, three weeks, there was this meeting, we're gonna have like the marketing plan for the you know for the next six months and this, that, and the other thing. And work was supposed to start at like maybe nine or ten, maybe ten. And at like 12:30, one o'clock, the girl just kind of saunters into the office, just very like not, you know, say for our time. If you didn't come late, you go first look like say, you know, you don't happen, you know, like you'll be stressed, you'll walk in worry, and Charlie just like, oh, you know, my partner said, You know, we didn't hear from you, you didn't call, you didn't communicate. What happened? She said, Oh, I just overslept as if my heart felt true. And Nami hired it, Nami interviewed the girl. I so I did not even have mouth to say, and she was just like very like, oh yeah, I just kind of overslept, shut up my alarm, and overslept, and she was just very like not remorseful, not remorseful, not worrying about the cost, like just it is what it is.

SPEAKER_04 21:31

That's the audacity he was talking about. That's that audacity.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

So I don't know, it's audacity.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

So again, that's like been probably my one experience where it's just like and and this person, God bless her, lovely girl. You know, I liked her, you know, she she enjoyed working for me, but she didn't last very long because there were like multiple episodes like this in like a two and a half month span that we're just like listen, we don't. Understand each other, you know, just be going, let's let's love ourselves and live ourselves. And so, again, I guess is this idea that does is it that there's something in generation about not really working hard, or would some gensi people saying that they don't like to suffer unnecessarily and they've seen all of us what work has done to us and what so they prioritize themselves so they prioritize like self-care, or some maybe say being selfish amongst you know, regardless of what the consequences are, or is the truth somewhere in the middle? So I don't know if you can tackle that.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

I I think it's no pressure, you're all right, you're all right, you're all right. They will know they cannot come and beat you, you're alright. So I think it's also because I like to be very honest. I think that's very bad behavior. I think what she did is utterly wrong. Uh, when it comes to self-care as a young person, um, there's there's one time I was reading about parenting. I have a great relationship with my parents now because I had to build on it. So every time my parents do some things that are so I try to read something, and and it was just about how type A parents have type B kids. So if your parents are like very organized, you become less organized. But if a parents are very unorganized, you become more organized. And I think it's overflows in every I think it overflows in every system.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Don't try me.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

So I think it overflows in a system. So for instance, if you speak to a typical young person, they'll tell you that, well, I'm not gonna kill myself for a job. And it's not because of the disdain for the job, it's because they watched their parents give their life to jobs that just never compensated them. So to some extent, I hear it, I know where you're coming from. Your feelings might be valid, but your actions are not. So there are better ways to handle things as well as that. When it comes to what this girl did, for instance, I always tell I work with young people on my team. I try to talk as many young people as possible. And sometimes I just call my manager, I'm like, can you see what this person just did? But I've also realized that discipline has to be a culture. A lot of young people go from university to working. So we don't have the we are finding our foot, unfortunately. And you wake up online and somebody's telling you, just wake up and love yourself. You don't know the nuance that person is speaking from. So there's a disconnect. So it's like if my boss tells me I have to wake up by seven, I have to love myself. Self-love is not the issue. You lack discipline. So there's now a disconnect between what I'm hearing versus what I'm doing. You don't, and I I also tell people that's I said, please, perspective matters. Like, surely, don't listen to every stranger's advice on the internet. There's reason there's stranger danger guys, like surely perspective matters. And even when I speak to people, I'm like, you don't have to do what everyone says. Like, you're allowed to have personality. I I know people who work nine to five speaking, they are partying or true, but they're waking up on Monday by 6 a.m. to get to work by eight. So there's also, I feel like a true test of being. So when I say, even when people tell me, oh, what does it mean to be jerzy? I like to say, like, oh, it means like getting your stuff done well. A true test of being because let me give you an instance. If you're watching this podcast and you say, Oh my god, I like to be I like his hard work, I like his tenacity, a huge chunk of the hard work is being able to do both. It's being able to say, Oh, I want to party tonight, but I'm also going to wake up and read tomorrow. Because discipline really matters. And I've worked with young people, I've been on set with young makeup artists, and they're just like, no, I want to do it my way. And I have to tell them that, like, you're not if you're not manifesting right now, you're being a trance, you need to get your stuff together. Because of the, I think there's a gap where younger people, we we haven't worked in spaces enough, in corporate spaces enough. So sometimes we just don't understand it, we just don't understand the culture of the workspace. It's like if I've been doing group projects with my classmates, I can come by 11, they'll forgive me. But it's like they've not realized that they've not realized, like, well, this is not your not in group group projects with your classmates anymore. You're dealing with your higher ups, and you need to treat them as such. So I think it's also a time thing. I think once you've worked, you've sacked they've sacked it from like three jobs. You just say, maybe I should love myself less. Maybe I can wake up early. So I think it's one of those things is we'll grow into it.

SPEAKER_04 26:26

I I hear I hear a lot of people criticize, you know, I mean, like we've said, Gen Z. And we had a conversation earlier on on a different episode here about how you know the internet raised a lot of you as well. Yeah, yeah. You know, we have a lot of parents didn't clock what was going on. Sir, I have a question then. Yes. Do you think it's our fault that we're raised by the internet? No, no, absolutely not. Actually, not. That's what we're saying. And a lot of parents didn't understand what was happening.

SPEAKER_01 26:55

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

The internet came when a lot of you were born, and social media came when you guys were in your formative TV.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 27:02

And parents were working, they didn't really realize how much of an impact this was. It was. Yep. By the time they realized what was going on, you guys are already done with university. We already know what to talk is our joke. And so you agree that that's a big reason why a lot of you are shaped the way you are. And we talk a lot about the dangers of social media now, and how you know those of us who are not parents of Jen Alpha, who is coming for you.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

They will show you. I can't wait.

SPEAKER_04 27:41

Jamie Back calling us old men. Okay. So good for us, excuse me, we've learned from your parents to say, okay, uh, these are the things that we can correct and how we limit exposure to the internet, to social media, and all of that. Now, my question being if we are worried about what it has done, isn't that then the truth that things are wrong? If we are worried about what we're trying to correct mistakes of what the internet or how the internet has shaped a generation. A lot of the tech moguls who told us then, a lot of their kids are your age or your generation, they didn't give them phones because they knew the dangers of these things, whether it was the no need to call brand names, but a lot of these gadgets and app owners kept their kids away from these things for a reason. Now, this generation was shipped by that, and we're trying to correct. We're gonna correct something that is good. So there must be something we've seen that we're trying to correct, which is why we're saying we're trying to raise our kids differently. So, my question basically being there has to be what went wrong, right? There must be something that have got that went wrong for us to be trying to correct it. It's a general question, but at the same time, it's pointing to the fact that the generalizations are coming from somewhere, right? A lot of us generalize about Gen Z, but it's because things are.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Like an actual phone, maybe like when I was entering university. Whose phone were you using? My mom like touchlights for when you're 10 years old to be able to call mommy and daddy, right? Also, because I also didn't watch TV growing up, like at all. So I I had to um, and then I hated my parents, right? Jesus Christ, I didn't have toys, I didn't have to. I'm like, Daddy and mommy, you guys suck. Like, there's no way you guys are telling me this will shape me to be who I am. But it did uh help me streamline my ideas better. For instance, when I there's something I'm like watching Christmas videos, and I stumble on a video, and it's like obviously Chad GBC directly script. I'm like, oh, why did it like you can't? I know HGBC that read the script. You know HDBC read script. Meaning, we all know charge read this script. And I'm like, because you've lost a I like to say this. We don't have Chris Cartwinkers anymore. For instance, I didn't say it. So I don't think he's a generation thing, I think error.

SPEAKER_04 30:19

Yeah, I think our education system, but that's a different topic.

SPEAKER_00 30:23

I truly think our education system, and the more I even read about it, I'm like, oh, this is really bad. And for instance, you can ask me a question, and I can say, This is my opinion on it. I don't have to be influenced. You can present me with newer information, and I would say, I still think my opinion is my opinion. And I can also say, but I think I'm going to change my opinion. I think a lot of people are shaped off other people's opinions. So we don't necessarily think critically. You don't have, you don't introspect. As a as someone who grew up reading an Ide Blighton, reading encyclopedias, I would have like animals and fun stuff in it. It really helps me. It's really helped my cognitive thinking. I know how to imagine, I know how to solve problems. And not because I'm necessarily better, but because I wasn't overexposed. I feel like when you're overexposed to social media, because at the end of the day, um, I was having a concern with my friend. If this is the smartest generation can ever be, because we have education, we have knowledge that it's fingerprints at our fingertips, yes, we're still the dumbest generation can ever be. That's what happens when everybody said it himself. No, no, we will talk about no, but it's also a reality. Um society rewards fully, everybody becomes a fool. Yeah, and that's another thing I was thinking about. Because we have knowledge as our fingertips, it's like um if the water is always going to be here, I don't have to drink it. You're like, oh yeah, I'll eventually charge my phone, but you don't want to do the work that separates you. There's so many conversations I have with my friends that I'm like, a lot of where we are now is like as a result of overexposure, like it's just constant overexposure. There's certain things I watch on the internet, and I'm like, I hope someone out there doesn't believe this. Because so let me give you typical how typical creators will think engagement farming. I want to say the darnest, dumbest thing because I want people to interact with me. We've also come into a world where it's like um an episode of Black Mirror. People value engagements, like numbers, likes, comments over actual opinion. So, for instance, if you would meet me and say, Oh my god, instead of having personal discourse, you want to argue on a blog's comment section. There's also a lot of people trying to prove they're actually intelligent instead of just doing the work that helps them know better. So there's such a wrong way we go about things. Now, I was explaining to my friend that if you hear a take from someone, if I hear a take that I don't think is brilliant, I'm going to be like, I don't think that's a brilliant take. But I don't think the person is stupid. It could have just been a bad take. But the way social media is systemed right now, you want to gang up against the person, you want to be so vile. Everyone is looking so much for a hit moment that it's like it kind of washes away your humanity. And I said, particularly on ex when you insult people and like insulting. And the insult is so it is so vile. Yeah. In your head, you're like, yeah, 2K people agree with me. I think you're distasteful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

I don't think you should say distasteful. So I so I want to ask, let's press into this idea of how people are dragged on the internet. Um, whether it's dragging, whether it's trolling, whether it's even this issue of cancel culture, right? Um, it seems like the generation today is much quicker to kind of pass judgment on anybody online and say, we have decided this is who this person is, and we're going to drag them. And just drag them and put them there, and almost kind of holding people to their lowest moment, whereas everybody has low moments that you would not want broadcast to the whole world, but you've you've done things or been in situations that you're not the proudest of. And yet we turn our ire and our vitro on whoever's moment happens to be the latest on the screen. So, what are your thoughts there? Is there has that gone too far? You know, do we need to walk that back? How do we walk that back? How do we get people to maybe not be eh?

SPEAKER_04 34:26

Walking it back, go hard.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

You go hard, you know. But what are your thoughts? Cancel culture, trolling, you know, holding people to these standards. And it it seems like it's made places like X or Twitter. Thank you. Um, it it a toxic enough place that some people are saying, like me, I don't I don't go on X anymore. Just because it's just like I'm I'm done with the platform for now. I don't even have access to it.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

I know I'm losing this show because when my youngers is that they tweet at me.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

I don't tweet, but yes, talk to us a bit about that. I think it's very scary because I, as someone who, as a creator, you know, as a public figure, you're going to be open to a lot of people will talk about your life. Yeah, people will drag you, people will disagree with you. But there's certain times I see them, you know, even just dragging other creators or other public figures, and and I'm just like so. For me, I don't like negative. I so entirely. So if you're dragging someone, I don't even want to see it, I don't want to look at it. But there's sometimes I'm just like humans are meant to make mistakes, right? Um, there's something I read one time perfection is the death of humanity. And so even when I'm trying to ensure something looks perfect, I'm like, there's nothing like perfection. When you I believe in accountability, people should be accountable, but you shouldn't be accountable to the worst version of yourself, in a sense that I can have an opinion, and I'm allowed to change my opinions because I am a person. I always tell people, like, when whenever I'm asked this, I'm like, well, if it was your mom being dragged, you would make an excuse for her, wouldn't you? It's so easy to be a lawyer when it's yourself, but to be a judge when it's others. So even with me, it doesn't when you drag me, I'm just like, I could have been wrong. And that's it. I will forgive myself for being young. I'm learning. And no matter the age you are, you are learning. Like it's such, there's no, it's not, it's not finished. Like being opinions are not finished. I can always change them. So I'm very, even when they drag people, I'm always like, the good thing is street no gay memory, they'll forget. Last, last.

SPEAKER_04 36:43

I mean, like, I beg John. In all of these, I I really, really do respect to a large extent Gen Z's for a lot of things. There's a lot they've done to the world that we can never take away from them. Opening our eyes to a lot of things. Whether I'm talking about reclimates, whether it's the need to movement, whether it's just being self-aware. They might be extreme on some levels, but these are conversations that a lot of us were scared to have or didn't have the audacity to have in the past. Sometimes the lack of ambition is misinterpreted as or loving yourself or being more in tune with yourself is a lack of ambition. Um, whereas, like you said, back in the day, we were made to keep going and don't complain, which I mean helps you achieve, but at the same time, the downside is at what cost, you know. Yeah. Interesting stats I saw. This was by the UK, by the way. Deloitte in the UK. So is only six percent of Gen Z say their goal is leadership.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Only six percent say their goal is leadership.

SPEAKER_04 37:53

They're not chasing titles the way other generations did. So it's more about if I'm a leader, fine, but more importantly, it's my own sort of happiness. Um this was a very interesting one. 98%. This was a Nigerian study, by the way. But it was done by the International Trademark Association. 98% of Gen Zs say being true to themselves is most important. 90% say they define their own moral code. Now that's why do you set your own rules? Well, I guess uh you could debate that. Um, but I found that 98% very interesting because almost every Gen Z you meet, it means what's most important to them is you know themselves. They're not necessarily chasing things, which also brings me to this 83% care more about the usefulness of a product than the brand name. That's one thing I think a lot of the other generations were caught up in. Oh, this is good. Or you want to buy an outfit and you're buying the label as against functionality. There's also the counter-argument is that Gen Z no get money. So they're not chasing brands. We don't have muscles. They're just buying what works, they're not necessarily chasing brands. But my point being, I like them for that, for a lot of things. A lot of what the world is first of all, they're overwhelmingly in the dominant population now, especially in Nigeria. Yeah, so they dictate a lot of the culture, right? But that has also helped us understand a lot more about ourselves. While we struggle with the employee who comes in five hours late and tells you I had a late night or a late morning, there's also a lot to learn in what if I took a break today just because I need it. As I guess I must show up, I must show up. You know. Um, so I guess there's counter arguments to that side, which is what brings me now to I don't know if you have a question for us, but before you ask us questions, I just want to know what do you even think of. I know you said you don't blame millennials or whatever it is for, but how do you view the generation ahead? Millennials, Gen X. I think Gen X Gen X is.

SPEAKER_03 40:06

I think that's fantastic. Yes. Is that Gen X Baby Boomer?

SPEAKER_04 40:09

Baby Boomer is after.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

So Baby Boomer first, then Gen X, then Genomin.

SPEAKER_04 40:14

Yeah, Gen X is up until it should be 78 to 60 something, I think. Then before that is Boomers. So I think it's Gen X, yeah. How do you view them? Do you I mean there's something to learn from everybody, but what do you think of this generation? Because they generalize about you guys a lot, so you must have opinions.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Be honest, yeah, yeah, yeah. Funny enough, I'm pretty honest. I like to act like I lie, but I rarely ever lie. Um, I think funny enough, I know Jesus will be like, oh no, but I think they are really strong, especially in Denish, I mean in the career part I'm taking. When I see older people who stayed, it's hard. As someone who has been made to think career, my career is very optional. People like to make it seem like they like to deny the work that it is, but it is a lot of work. So when I see genetics who have done this, I'm like, damn. It takes such discipline. You're talking about influencing now. Yes. So media space influencing everything. I'm like, okay, it takes such discipline to actually lock in. I also think as someone who, you know, I think, oh yeah, I'm gonna love myself, I'm gonna quit that job. I sometimes remember that there are people older than me who could have, but they didn't. So I know that, oh, if this person can persevere, that job might be shit, but I'm taking my salary. And I think it's such a it's such a great way to tell a story. Not radicality is not always quitting, sometimes it's staying. And when I think about it, I'm like, wow, everyone fights things differently, and genuinely, this is not to patronize anybody, but and even with my parents who are felt like, oh, you stayed too long at that job, you should have left. You you were quiet for too long. The silence couldn't have been easy. And so for me, it's such a way of thinking, like, wow, sometimes perhaps the sacrifices they made are the reasons we can't afford to be so outspoken. So I look at it with such reverence, like, wow, you guys are so cool. Wow, yes. I think also because you guys are so rich. So you guys must have saved. Amen. No, I don't know about that, but it's just like, oh my god, so we can't save because also I'm a generation that's like, Leave. Oh, I'm gonna live for today, you'll live for today. Yeah, so I'm like, I know, only for today, oh may I put money in my biggest vest too. No, no, no, no, it's such a yeah, it's a reality check, it's a very important, it takes away the sorry. I was going to ask. Okay, sorry, I was also gonna say the reason um about the moral code, um, when you said it, it struck me because it makes sense, even the leadership thing. A lot of people don't want to be leaders anymore, right? Because systematically, a lot of young people hate the government, so even around the world, so leadership is seen negative. Yes, it's like I can't choose. Like realistically, we always feel like we can't choose. And I always wonder like, how does it transcend the older we get? Because eventually, a lot of people who are old are going to leave power. So, does it leave a gap? Or do we all finally say I have to be? That's all I mean. But the moral code, I know a lot of young people actually create their moral code. Um, growing up, I thought the basics X, Y, Z, you know, be a Christian, be good, be X, Y, Z. But the more, the older you grow, you realize how there is no black and whites. Like, unfortunately, like you're, you would meet people who go to church every day that would be the unkindest people you've ever met. So for us, it's such a it's such a I have to dictate my own moral code. Like, I, and that's what leads to such a strong sense of self, which leads to why young people can be so audacious. Because it's such a I've had to create my stuff from the ground up. Like I've had to listen to.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

So, where does that leave God or your relationship with God in? That mix at least in my dissenter.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Very here.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

But I also think a lot of young people see religion more as because the reason I ask is um I read a study recently where I watched something about saying that Gen Zs are turning to God more becoming more causality than almost any other generation before them. Which means like something is happening in the generation where Gen Zs are like, oh I didn't find something.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

I just go back home. So where where's I think for so I'll use me as a case study. Okay. I after church, sometimes I just go, there are certain preachers who I really like their teachings, and I'll just watch their stuff. I also don't necessarily might agree with everything they say, but I also have the reality that yes, whilst I enjoy this preacher and I think he's a great man of God, he's a man. He can factually be wrong. As opposed to the older generation who would take the preacher's teachings who clean a sinker, we can be objective and be like, ah, I think that's nuanced. There's certain times that my pastor says some things I'm like, I don't agree with that. And I'm not scared to say I don't agree with that. I don't agree with it. I think you can say, oh, based on the Bible. I'm like, I don't know. It's a reason it's like that. And the thing is, if you present me with new information, I'm okay with being wrong. But we are more, we can object. The reason we can't object is just comfortable asking questions. Yeah, we can't challenge. Like, why do I have to take everything that you say? So I think it's I think it also makes us turn to God more. Because we're like, okay, let me go to the source that has the answers. You know what? Because realistically, there's like the thing is that growing up, I grew up in Benin, and I'll go to some churches and they'll say, Oh, this person is possessed, and you're flogging the person. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I I don't that doesn't track. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, not coming back. And because we could, because this happened, it made us able to say, like, oh no, I want to introspect. I'm like, I don't think all you're saying is right. I and I I really like when I meet people who encourage. I shouldn't be a dummy. I should be able to ask why. If you're training a child to not ask why, that's a fundamental problem. You're training someone that would never ask a why in their life. You should your kids should be able to say, Oh, why? Oh no, I don't think so. I mean, no, I don't think. In fact, the reason I read is not to be telling, it's to know that you are wrong. Primarily, the reason I'm a lawyer is I want to tell you that do you know this thing I didn't easy legal? You this stupid girl, do you this stupid boy? And you must train people who are disruptors. Like it's okay to be a disruptor. So yeah, interestingly. Look there first. This is true.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

Mentality with Abuka, I'm just here as a friend.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

I think I wanna have two questions. Okay, and this first question is very nuanced. Do you think it was harder to be a man in your time than it is right now? What's the second question? Oh, we'll do the first one first harder.

SPEAKER_04 46:52

That was a very nuanced question, like you said. I don't know what harder means, but I think we grew up more with all of these rules from a generation that was more traditional, I want to believe, than your generation's parents. So we grew up with fathers and mothers and a community that did things a certain way because I mean my dad, for example, didn't leave his community until he was done with the secondary school. He's fully formed, you know, Kija, which is my village. A lot of people have those stories where up until the 50s, a lot of our parents are in that range. They grew up being told certain things and being told how things will be done a certain way. So they gave us what they knew. Um a lot of Gen Z's parents are Gen Xers, um, Gen Xers are a lot more aware. Now, they may not have been the most aware, but they knew better. I think it put the pressure maybe a little less on your generation of men. So on the one hand, I would say it was probably tougher for us because there were rules you couldn't go break away from. Men should do da, da, da, da, da. And you were meant to sort of follow. There wasn't a lot of room for expression of yourself. Yes, social media has changed things, but we grew up in a time when not many people could have told their parents at your age that I'm gonna be in law school, but I'm also gonna be an influencer. That was like capital sin. Do what you're supposed to do. Stick to your so on that front, I would say yes, it was probably tougher on us. But, like I said, because you also said it's nuanced for your generation, there's a belief that you guys have been given more, probably better equipped with the times. Um you should know better, you also have more freedoms to express. Um, does that make it harder for you guys to achieve in a space where we compete, we necessarily weren't competing, we're just giving okay, go and do this. But you guys are now in a space where you've been equipped, but also everybody has been equipped, so yeah, now competition is tougher. Um, everybody's kind of doing the same things, um, whatever it is in the past, finding knowledge or knowing things, you have to sort of go find it now. It's like it's like it's not like okay, what are you gonna do with this? And it's like everybody's facing that semi-level of pressure. So, I guess on the competition level, it's harder, maybe for you guys, but on the equipped being equipped and being thrown into the wild, maybe we had it a little rough. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 50:02

Yeah, I I would I would agree um in the way that you answered it. What I would want to add to this question is really reframing the question because I think the challenge that we have is when we when we ask things like, was it harder to be a man in your time than in our time? You know, was it easier for your generation or easier for ours? You you fall into this trap of almost kind of competing between generations. And it's just like the people that say, Oh, was Michael Jordan the greatest basketball player of all time? Yes, he was. Or was it of course he wasn't, or was it LeBron James, right? The reality is the times are different, the challenges are different, the access is different, the expectations are different, the rules are different. So there's no real way to have a true comparison because those people, the parameters are not the same, so you can't have an honest like evaluation when you're trying to compare.

SPEAKER_04 51:11

Everybody likes to feel like they suffer the most, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

And I don't I don't think that generations can truly compare and compete with each other when the terms on engagement are so different. So, and that's why I think personally, and I could be wrong, but I think our generation is probably the most fortunate because it's like we're right in the middle of the older generations that carry a lot of wisdom and the younger generations that carry a lot of perspective, and that I think has made our generation probably more equipped to be parents than any generation before, right? Because there was a time I remember when cell phones be became a thing. I remember my dad had the first phone like ever. And it was like a handset that you were carrying to the car. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 52:05

I remember the internet.

SPEAKER_03 52:06

I remember when the internet was born. Yeah, like I remember the first time Google launched.

SPEAKER_04 52:10

Remember the first time I opened an email. So exactly.

SPEAKER_03 52:13

Like I remember when I first opened an email address, I remember when you had to log on on it. So it's like we lived in that space between like the wisdom and the conservatism and the resilience and all of that of the older generation, and then just the energy and the perspective and the new ways of seeing things, and even the negative side, we saw what life did to our parents and what life has done to you. So now I can have children and say, guys, I don't want either. I was gonna say, Zaya, you're only getting screen time, you know, on the weekend from this time to this time. Why? Because I've seen what living on the internet has done to Gen Z. And at the same time, I can say, hey, Banky W, one day a week I need a Sabbath day. Why? Because I saw my parents walk themselves to the bone and not being able to be present at home and what that happened, you know, what happened to their generation and what it did to their kids who didn't have parents around. So I feel like we living in that space has made us say, hey, we're trying to learn the lessons from here, but see the perspectives from here and just try and do better. And ultimately, every generation inherits the world as it is passed down. We also inherit the problems as they're passed down. We inherit all of that. The responsibility now on you is to say, how do we build better? And so I think that's something that in general, the millennial generation, just by virtue of when we came in, we've had to reckon with that. And I think my my hope for the Gen Z generation is that they don't, they they've and you grew up on the internet, right? So for a lot of people, the internet taught you more than your parents ever did. So it's like hopefully, somewhere in the mix of all of that, you can find your way back to God, find your way back to this place of saying, there's some things that the internet has taught me to embrace that are not the best. And there's some things that I am assuming the older generations don't understand, that maybe there's some wisdom there. So if you if you can somehow find your place to the place of learning, find your way to the place of learning where you're picking up the best of everything and dropping the worst, then the world ends up okay. So that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Thank you. Very interesting. So, I mean, the second question was answered, but this is not really like a question, but just a little if you could tell me one thing for me now. I mean, this podcast, so you can tell Jeff too. But one thing you think I should know as someone who is going to just grow older, amen. So one thing you think I should know doesn't have to be phenomenal.

SPEAKER_04 54:59

So, this question you asked is very interesting because um we're gonna go to our live original moment, okay? And we got this email, which kind of ties into this question. And it says, Hi, I've been thinking about the pressure to have it all by 30. There's this fear that if you haven't made it by then, you failed. How do you deal with the anxiety of the ticking clock while still staying true to your own timing? We'd love to hear your thoughts on this. That's what I that's that's the one thing I know. I always tell younger people when I meet them, for some reason, especially guys, because if it seems like it's a lot of guys who come to me with after that. Probably because I don't know if the pressure is more for the kind of I meet someone and they are so worried, and I ask them how old they are, they say they're 26.

SPEAKER_03 55:50

And I'm like, you have 26. I was I know it feels old, I was clueless.

SPEAKER_04 55:55

There's a lot that you you you don't know, and it's okay. You know, there's a lot that you don't know, and that's fine. And I think that's the one thing I I don't know, I don't know how old you are, I don't know what your plans in life are, but I think it's okay to not know what your plans are yet. What matters that you're on course or you're on the path to something? What I usually don't like is when I meet people and I'm like, so what are you doing? And they're not doing anything at all. Um if it's because of the way the economy is set up, I can get it. You're actively trying to actually make an effort. But I mean more education, you find someone who's just like, yeah, I just, you know, I want to blow or something that's just superficial. But the one thing I will say to you is yes, you might not have all the time in the world, but you do have time to figure stuff out. I feel like more than millennials, maybe, and maybe any other generation, Gen Z put a lot of pressure on themselves. Maybe social media makes that worse because you're seeing the way the world is moving and your peers are sort of doing things. You feel like in your mid-20s you should have bought a house and bought your mommy house on top of that, and then had this wedding that would trend for three weeks. You know, all of these things like that's not really what life is about. So just understanding that you are you're not late to anything, just it will happen, but just be on the path, and you most likely figure things. I didn't figure a lot out until my 30s, yeah. And that's just the it that's the story of a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

Oh, a lot of people, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:28

Did you education you find people who've life just falls in place for them at 24? But on very rare occasions, though, very rare, but okay, but most people in their 30s is when it starts making sense when a lot of things start making sense.

SPEAKER_03 57:44

Yes, sorry. I I think I think you spoke very well. Um so this question of the pressure of time and saying I should be here by now, or I should have this figured out by now, I should have bought the house, or I should be married, or whatever the case may be. And it's just this this um this thing that's it's like this pressure that society and sometimes that pressure is even more internal than anything else. And the the best analogy that I can say is there's a there's such a thing as time difference, right? So that Nigeria is at five o'clock, five p.m. right now, doesn't mean that Yankee will not get there. It just means it's not time yet. And if you're looking at it and saying, ah, but this person and and social media makes it so hard because you are seeing the highlights of people's lives all over the world at the same time. And you're not seeing the demons that they're battling, you're not seeing the downsides a lot of times, you're not seeing the real story behind everything, you're just seeing what somebody, a curated version of life that then makes you feel like you're not where you should be. Um, so I would echo what he said first of all, which is just to kind of understand that you may not have it all figured out yet. And yes, you do have to be conscious about time because you don't want to wake up one day and be 55 and you're still trying to figure it out. But you probably have more time than you realize, and your life will change so much. Yep, bruh. I studied engineering in university, he studied law. I don't work for an engineering company, he's not a lawyer today, and even the things, and even the things that we have done have changed over the years. Like, if I was sitting here 10, 15 years ago, you would describe me with a much different job than than you would today. So life will change, it will evolve. For me, I think the most important thing is first have a relationship with God, and not everybody is meant to be a pastor, not everybody's meant to have it, you know, it's not about perfection, it's really about progression, it's about saying, I need this. You know, you said yourself that when it comes to ourselves, we want to be a lawyer, but when it comes to everybody else, we want to be a judge. The reality is Christ said we are all called to be witnesses, we're not called to be pastors, all of us. We're not called to be judge, executioner, not even lawyer, we're just called to be witnesses. A witness is there because of evidence and testimony, as in this is what has happened to me. And for a witness to be there means that witness has had some kind of personal experience that makes it valid in the courtroom. So let's walk back from this place of trying to be judge, jury, executioner, or even lawyer, and just say, What's my own testimony? What's my own evidence? What have I learned? What's God teaching me? What is life like? And then when you are called upon, you can give evidence and testimony and leave the judging to God and leave all of those other roles, and just first find that relationship with God, and then in finding that, find yourself who God created you to be, and just keep working on that version of yourself to be better every day, and eventually things will fall in line. Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:08

No, sorry, that was that was for millennials.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:11

Oh, yes, yes, yes. Clock it, clock it.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:14

I just showed my age again.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:17

Let me ask you, I I have a question. Yeah, um it's a question for you. Okay, so do you feel pressure to be relevant to the Gen Z generation? And I say that because you are a very unique person in the media space, right? You from you know, you're like you're one of a kind. You will do rubbing minds and discuss like leadership and policy and issues in society, then you turn around and you do big brother, and it's like the most popular thing on African television. Then you come here and we'll talk million.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

Then you now do fashionista.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:58

So I you know, and I say this because I for a long time I dyed my beard. I died for like easily five years, just because I didn't want people to put me in this box of like old people. They say this was an hour old, you understand? So I will I wanted to make sure that I'll still, you know, when they say, Ah, Uncle Banke, I say, hey, hey, now when they say Uncle Banky, I say, How are you, my dear? But it's but it's this pressure to like still feel relevant or be, you know, still feel young or whatever the case may be. And I, like, at least in the case of my beard, I got to the point where because my wife had been saying, leave this thing, leave this thing, that she likes it. So I literally got to the place last year. I didn't even stop dyeing it because I wanted to accept it. I stopped dying it because my wife really likes it. And I was like, I only want to be attracted, I only care about being attractive to one person. And if this one person is saying she likes it, she wants the white beard, you can't, I said, let me leave it. So, but I I cage all of that to say, is there a pressure on people like yourself, or maybe even just millennials in general, to feel like we can still kind of you know be relevant to them or you know, be their party, or dress a certain way, or look a certain way. Like, what is that? What is that like for somebody like you?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:16

I think, like you said earlier, every generation has that, you know, you want to stay cool as long as you can. The generation before us, we also, I mean, we might not have done what they are doing to us as harshly, but they always go through that wave of, you know, you're still trying to be cool and then you don't realize that you don't know certain slang anymore. Yeah, and you just give it up. Um, I don't know that I've ever been under pressure to do anything generally. Um, I think anybody who knows me knows that the one trait you can always attribute to me is my self-confidence, which has been misinterpreted as arrogance sometimes. Because I do things my way, even with the fashion, for example. When I was doing fashion, it wasn't trendy.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:00

Well, you're busting Akbada at weddings.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:02

Um, I remember very well there was a pink ball for cancer, breast cancer, which Genevieve Magazine at the time, which was like the coolest magazine, film magazine in Nigeria.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:11

They don't even know what magazine is. Yes, I mean, look at this fashion team.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:17

So Genevieve magazine used to do this pink ball for cancer every year for cancer awareness. And the dress code was pink or a touch of pink, and the men will see where their black suits are going. I remember wearing a pink jacket once in 2008 or 9. And it was such a thing. Yeah. Newspapers, I was in Disney style. It was like a moment like he wore a pink jacket. Yeah. I mean, look at Instagram now, just imagine how silly that sounds many years later. But I did a lot of these things not because there was pressure, but it was because I wanted to do them. Going on TV, I always knew that I wanted to sort of express myself. And it's okay to dress a certain way and still do a good job. Because the perception then was if you're too dressed up or flashy, you are not great at your job. It takes away from the seriousness of what you're doing. Yeah, so fashion was sort of looked down on, but it was, I made it, you made it cool. Yeah, you can do that and still be great at what you're doing. So pressure, I don't think, is ever what it was. But I mean, there's no I would be human if I say there are no times when you look and you're like, hmm. I think for me, it's more pressure on myself, just realizing what age looks like now. Yeah, I think the realization, I still don't believe my age a lot of the time. Like, ah, no, no. And we're not parents too. You know, so I think it's more just the realization of how time has passed for me. That I mean, I have some grace, but I still die.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:49

But it's not necessarily because I'm trying to fit in. I mean, I don't do Gen Z even. I don't know if you see me anywhere. Yeah, so it's not that I'm not trying to uh look at me and yeah, but I'm still gonna dress how I want to dress. I'd like to dress a certain way, yeah. I'll wear things I want to wear. So, more than anything, it's just the myself realizing where I am and you know, living in that. Okay, yeah, you're 40, you're gonna be 44 this year. Jesus.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:21

Your manager just took his head, Kevin Harty Four. No, why do you say it like that? I mean, yeah, no. Quickly, one last thing from you one slang you want to teach us, and one slang that you want older generations to stop using. Um, do you have one?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:41

Uh when older generation actually says Gen Z, it hurts me so I'm back later of Gen Z.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:49

Because Gen Z don't say Gen Z. It means they're just like yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:56

It's like it's like Brazier this whole episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:04

We're going to change the topic of this episode understanding young people.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:10

Young people, fair enough.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:15

One slang that maybe we may not know. Um you want to teach it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:21

I don't use a lot of slangs, but I use like um I'm locked in because I'm always locked in and I like locked in locked in. Because I'm serious, man. I'm locked in, man. Like yes, locked in. I don't think all the other slangs are too unprofessional. Please, I'm a lawyer.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:34

Okay. Thank you very much to me. Um, please share with us your comments on this uh video on this conversation. Um, I know we sounded like old men on this is more than anything it was for us to understand because we pass judgment a lot. Like he's there's a lot of just perception and misconception, misconceptions of the youth, young the young generation. Before I say the word again, and uh, we just wanted to understand better so that I mean going forward we can have more wholesome conversations, hopefully. And um, thank you very much for educating us. We use people that know booking yeah, you know's book.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:19

Yeah, but let me end that logic and that sham.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:22

When it's saying the book, look at it.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Smart people, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:28

Thanks for coming on the mentality. Cheers, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:31

Thank you. Thank you, thank you. That was fun. Thank you, Chris. You guys say it's like same breeze.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:47

This season of mentality with Abuka is brought to you by Schweppes and the Clean Libet.